> @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > @Scott_P said: > > Mr. P, it's dumb. > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known. > > > > Ummm, that's the point. > > > > Why do you think it's an insult? > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it. > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English. BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
> @rkrkrk said: > > @Sandpit said: > > > @Sandpit said: > > > > > Labour at better than evens in Peterborough by election looks value. > > > > > > > > > > Who’s their candidate? Local union rep or councillor, or parachuted-in Corbynite Loyalist from London? > > > > > > > > Unite trade unionist, lived there for 30 years, was previous candidate in 2015 when she lost to Stewart Jackson by 2000 votes. > > > > > > > > Edit: she was a city councillor until 2016 I think. > > > > Thanks. Sounds like a good candidate. I think it’s 50/50 between Lab and Brexit Party, who also have a good candidate. > > > > I think the way it goes will depend a lot on the fallout from the EU elections a couple of weeks before. One or other party will be seen as in the ascendancy, and that party will likely win in Peterborough. > > Just looked him up, he does look like a strong candidate also. I think the fact that Labour are an established party in the area, the Tories may take votes from Brexit party and the fact that Labour were involved in the recall petition make Labour slight favourites.
I love how we're now talking about the Tories "taking votes" from the Brexit Party.
> @isam said: > > @isam said: > > > > @isam said: > > > > > > > > @isam said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems to me that talk of PM Farage and the panicky reverse expectation management over how the Brexit Party will do is their aim rather than actual power. If enough MPs vote for the withdrawal deal next time because they fear Farage and Co will win their seats off them, it will be job done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see it now; the Anti Faragists, who were getting excited about the revoke petition 6 weeks ago, claiming victory as the MPs vote through the deal, without realising they’ve been duped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting - so Farage secretly supports the WA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt it, but for those who just want Brexit delivered, his party putting the frighteners on those who thought they could legislate their worst nightmare (no deal) away while they connived to remain, is just what is needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > I’d have thought a party advocating a No Deal Brexit winning most votes on 23rd May would embolden the ERG and the rest of the Tory No Dealers. > > > > > > Yes it would also give the ultra remainers notice that the worst option is no longer Mays deal but No deal, which might wake them up to the fact they promised to respect the vote to leave. > > > > > > The kids managed to remove the punishment of detention for not doing their homework, and now few of them bother doing it. All of a sudden there’s a real threat of the cane being reintroduced. > > > > The polls have told us for a while that 30% to 35% of voters back a No Deal Brexit. The election looks likely to confirm that, so showing a majority agrees that MPs are right to rule a No Deal Brexit out. > > Ruling no deal Brexit out gave them licence to kick the can down the road, campaign for a 2nd referendum before we’ve left, or revoke. That’s why it needs to be there, and The Brexit Party have replaced it. > > 2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant Memory.
May’s deal is Brexit, but it will only get through the Common’s if it is subject to a referendum. And that will only happen if the choice offered is May’s deal or Remain. The only way that changes is if the EP elections tell us something we don’t already know.
Butt hurt and insults is all the “one nation in thrall to the civil service “ spreadsheet wielding managerial rump of the Cameroon- Blairite past have left.
"2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant memory."
I think paralysis until 2022 is what we will get, doubt that will please literally anyone and the country will end up even more divided and less civil in its politics than it has already become. Other countries will continue to gain advantages over us whilst we look inwards. For a fantasy that does not exist.
Taking the medicine (WA) now, starting the process of leaving and recovering is better than paralysis with an unknown outcome, so people should move towards it, but partly politics dictates the opposite.
> @OldKingCole said: > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > > @Scott_P said: > > > Mr. P, it's dumb. > > > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known. > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point. > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult? > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it. > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that. > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English. > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
So what. You can't run public services without their cash. Look at Venezuela - and now Cuba. I'd have thought you'd be keen to retire to a socialist paradise with your cash.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @bigjohnowls said: > > Just voted in Euros. > > > > Pen hovering between BREXIT party and Labour > > > > Sense prevailed. > > > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!!
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @OldKingCole said: > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb. > > > > > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known. > > > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point. > > > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult? > > > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it. > > > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that. > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English. > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British. > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC. > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
There's a lot of us about! One of my sons married a Thai girl so we have three half-Thai grandchildren. Elder one is just a teenager so sorting out her identity. She's happier speaking English so has always regarded herself as English, but her recent history studies have given her a much greater sympathy with Thailand. (Never colonised etc.)
> > > Astonishingly Opinium now has the Tory Party getting more votes from Remainers, 12%, than the 11% it gets from Leavers in the European Parliament elections with so many Leavers now voting Brexit Party. Which will please William Glenn if few Tory MPs bar the likes of Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve and Justine Greening
> > It’s what several of us have been predicting for some time. The residual Tory EU election vote will be a majority Remain vote.
> >
> > You’ve been too busy getting excited about PM Farage to notice.
>
> Quite extraordinary loyalty, to be a Remain voting Tory. I would have thought the few voting Tory still would be backers of the Deal.
>
> Surely though we will see May gone and a new Leader immediately post EU elections? The Deal then returns as the only alternative to No Deal.
I voted Remain but now back the Deal, same with BigG and I suspect the same holds for some other Remain voting Tories
I voted Remain and thought May's deal was an acceptable compromise given the referendum result. I rarely vote Conservative, but I can certainly imagine that I might have turned out for them at the Euros to keep Farage's no deal guys out. But only if I thought that the Conservatives were able to actually deliver their proposal. And even more crucially, if the race was between the Conservatives and TBP. As it is I am watching the polls to see what the most effective anti-Farage vote is - but it sure as heck isn't going to be the blues.
> @brokenwheel said: > Just voted in Euros. > > Pen hovering between BREXIT party and Labour > > Sense prevailed. > > Did the Jedi mind tricks arrow work?
> @Recidivist said: > > @Foxy said: > > > > @IanB2 said: > > > > FPT: > > > > > > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > Astonishingly Opinium now has the Tory Party getting more votes from Remainers, 12%, than the 11% it gets from Leavers in the European Parliament elections with so many Leavers now voting Brexit Party. Which will please William Glenn if few Tory MPs bar the likes of Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve and Justine Greening > > > > > > > > > > https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2019/05/11/brexit-party-doubles-lead-over-labour-in-european-election-poll/ > > > > > > > > It’s what several of us have been predicting for some time. The residual Tory EU election vote will be a majority Remain vote. > > > > > > > > You’ve been too busy getting excited about PM Farage to notice. > > > > > > Quite extraordinary loyalty, to be a Remain voting Tory. I would have thought the few voting Tory still would be backers of the Deal. > > > > > > Surely though we will see May gone and a new Leader immediately post EU elections? The Deal then returns as the only alternative to No Deal. > > > > I voted Remain but now back the Deal, same with BigG and I suspect the same holds for some other Remain voting Tories > > I voted Remain and thought May's deal was an acceptable compromise given the referendum result. I rarely vote Conservative, but I can certainly imagine that I might have turned out for them at the Euros to keep Farage's no deal guys out. But only if I thought that the Conservatives were able to actually deliver their proposal. And even more crucially, if the race was between the Conservatives and TBP. As it is I am watching the polls to see what the most effective anti-Farage vote is - but it sure as heck isn't going to be the blues.
I primarily want to vote anti-no deal, anti ERG & Farage, but not necessarily pro remain. In the weird situation of choosing between Greens and Tories at the moment.....
> > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known.
> > > >
> > > > Ummm, that's the point.
> > > >
> > > > Why do you think it's an insult?
> > > >
> > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
> > >
> > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
> >
> > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
> > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
>
> I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
>
> I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
There's a lot of us about! One of my sons married a Thai girl so we have three half-Thai grandchildren. Elder one is just a teenager so sorting out her identity. She's happier speaking English so has always regarded herself as English, but her recent history studies have given her a much greater sympathy with Thailand. (Never colonised etc.)
Britain's super rich are preparing to flee the country at the prospect of a Corbyn government taking almost £1 trillion with them, many are also making plans to move assets and businesses abroad
Well shot of the parasites who I bet pay little or no tax, there will be none of it sitting in UK, will all be laundering in tax havens. Usual whinging from ultra rich.
Tony Blair on Sophy weirdly saying he will vote labour in the EU but asking remainers to vote for remain parties, not labour He also sounds a bit panicky and not really helping his cause
I almost sure Corbyn will be duly grateful for his endorsement...
Britain's super rich are preparing to flee the country at the prospect of a Corbyn government taking almost £1 trillion with them, many are also making plans to move assets and businesses abroad
Well shot of the parasites who I bet pay little or no tax, there will be none of it sitting in UK, will all be laundering in tax havens. Usual whinging from ultra rich.
"who I bet pay little or no tax" You could be wrong there.
> @OldKingCole said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @OldKingCole said: > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb. > > > > > > > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known. > > > > > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point. > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult? > > > > > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it. > > > > > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that. > > > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English. > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British. > > > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC. > > > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British > > There's a lot of us about! One of my sons married a Thai girl so we have three half-Thai grandchildren. Elder one is just a teenager so sorting out her identity. She's happier speaking English so has always regarded herself as English, but her recent history studies have given her a much greater sympathy with Thailand. (Never colonised etc.)
Grandchildren enrich our lives enormously and our eldest granddaughter is 16 today.
Strangely she shares the same birthday as Madeline McCann and has a similar mark in her eye as Madeline
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @OldKingCole said: > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb. > > > > > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known. > > > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point. > > > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult? > > > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it. > > > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that. > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English. > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British. > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC. > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is.
> @ydoethur said: > @Big_G_NorthWales > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!! > Almost but not quite. > > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn.
> @ThomasNashe said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @OldKingCole said: > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb. > > > > > > > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known. > > > > > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point. > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult? > > > > > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it. > > > > > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that. > > > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English. > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British. > > > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC. > > > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British > > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is.
Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family
> > > It’s what several of us have been predicting for some time. The residual Tory EU election vote will be a majority Remain vote.
>
> > >
>
> > > You’ve been too busy getting excited about PM Farage to notice.
>
> >
>
> > Quite extraordinary loyalty, to be a Remain voting Tory. I would have thought the few voting Tory still would be backers of the Deal.
>
> >
>
> > Surely though we will see May gone and a new Leader immediately post EU elections? The Deal then returns as the only alternative to No Deal.
>
>
>
> I voted Remain but now back the Deal, same with BigG and I suspect the same holds for some other Remain voting Tories
>
> I voted Remain and thought May's deal was an acceptable compromise given the referendum result. I rarely vote Conservative, but I can certainly imagine that I might have turned out for them at the Euros to keep Farage's no deal guys out. But only if I thought that the Conservatives were able to actually deliver their proposal. And even more crucially, if the race was between the Conservatives and TBP. As it is I am watching the polls to see what the most effective anti-Farage vote is - but it sure as heck isn't going to be the blues.
I primarily want to vote anti-no deal, anti ERG & Farage, but not necessarily pro remain. In the weird situation of choosing between Greens and Tories at the moment.....
Yes it is weird how things are turning out isn't it. I have been on the point of considering voting for every party except the Brexit Party since the locals.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > > @ydoethur said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales > > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!! > > Almost but not quite. > > > > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn. > > The two are matching ugly bookends.
> With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn.
The two are matching ugly bookends.
They're both pandering to racist scumbags, both disturbingly close to rogue foreign governments, both dense as five posts, both putting forward impossible dreams based on their personal fantasies of a mythical past utopia and both have an almost cult-like following.
But - please correct me if I am wrong - Farage has never supported or been an apologist for terrorists.
> > Britain's super rich are preparing to flee the country at the prospect of a Corbyn government taking almost £1 trillion with them, many are also making plans to move assets and businesses abroad
So what. You can't run public services without their cash. Look at Venezuela - and now Cuba. I'd have thought you'd be keen to retire to a socialist paradise with your cash.
Bollocks! Most of the super-rich avoid paying taxes by squirrelling their ridiculous wealth away in offshore tax havens. If they love their money more than the country they are welcome to piss-off imo.
"After a meeting with Brandon Lewis, the Conservative party chairman, earlier this week, MEP candidates were left with the impression that Theresa May would give a speech next week setting out the party’s European election message. However, a No 10 source said there were “no plans” for such an intervention."
Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess.
> > Britain's super rich are preparing to flee the country at the prospect of a Corbyn government taking almost £1 trillion with them, many are also making plans to move assets and businesses abroad
So what. You can't run public services without their cash. Look at Venezuela - and now Cuba. I'd have thought you'd be keen to retire to a socialist paradise with your cash.
They don't pay for public services, all their money is well away in tax havens, it is the mugs that pay for their services.
> > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ummm, that's the point.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why do you think it's an insult?
> > > > >
> > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
> > > >
> > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
> > >
> > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
> > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
> >
> > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
> >
> > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
>
> English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is.
Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family
I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally
> @ydoethur said: > > @ydoethur said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales > > > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!! > > > Almost but not quite. > > > > > > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn. > > > > The two are matching ugly bookends. > > They're both pandering to racist scumbags, both disturbingly close to rogue foreign governments, both dense as five posts, both putting forward impossible dreams based on their personal fantasies of a mythical past utopia and both have an almost cult-like following. > > But - please correct me if I am wrong - Farage has never supported or been an apologist for terrorists.
He has not one but two MEP candidates who supported the IRA’s bombing campaigns.
Britain's super rich are preparing to flee the country at the prospect of a Corbyn government taking almost £1 trillion with them, many are also making plans to move assets and businesses abroad
Well shot of the parasites who I bet pay little or no tax, there will be none of it sitting in UK, will all be laundering in tax havens. Usual whinging from ultra rich.
"who I bet pay little or no tax" You could be wrong there.
> @SandyRentool said: > > @Morris_Dancer said: > > Mr. Above, the Greens are for Remain, aren't they? > > Second order issue for the Greens. As it is for Labour. > > There are more important things in the world than our membership or otherwise of the EU.
Yes the Green vote would be to encourage other parties to be more green to tackle the problems, rather than because I agree with the Greens on the solutions.
> @SandyRentool said: > > @Morris_Dancer said: > > Mr. Above, the Greens are for Remain, aren't they? > > Second order issue for the Greens. As it is for Labour. > > There are more important things in the world than our membership or otherwise of the EU.
The EU is just the tip of the 'iceberg' (lol) for the Greens. They want a one-world government like something out of Star Trek, presumably with the officials journeying from around the world by foot and sail to sit in quorum under a great cedar tree. Or something.
> @malcolmg said: > > @ThomasNashe said: > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > @OldKingCole said: > > > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > > > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that. > > > > > > > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English. > > > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British. > > > > > > > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC. > > > > > > > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British > > > > > > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is. > > > > Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family > > I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally
I know you are Malc and I respect your view but as a family we represent Scotland, Wales and England and consider ourselves British and value the union
> Butt hurt and insults is all the “one nation in thrall to the civil service “ spreadsheet wielding managerial rump of the Cameroon- Blairite past have left.
*
The term "butt hurt" is rarely found in a comment of calm and insightful wisdom on a politics forum.
> @malcolmg said: > > @ThomasNashe said: > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > @OldKingCole said: > > > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > > > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that. > > > > > > > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English. > > > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British. > > > > > > > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC. > > > > > > > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British > > > > > > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is. > > > > Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family > > I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally
> > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
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> > > > >
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> > > >
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> > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
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> > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
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> > >
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> > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
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> > >
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> > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
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> >
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> > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is.
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>
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> Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family
>
> I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally
I know you are Malc and I respect your view but as a family we represent Scotland, Wales and England and consider ourselves British and value the union
G, and good for you and family , I like people with principles and values and they certainly don't need to be same as mine.
> @malcolmg said: > > @malcolmg said: > > > > @ThomasNashe said: > > > > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > > > > > @OldKingCole said: > > > > > > > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English. > > > > > > > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British > > > > > > > > > > > > > > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is. > > > > > > > > > > > > Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family > > > > > > I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally > > > > I know you are Malc and I respect your view but as a family we represent Scotland, Wales and England and consider ourselves British and value the union > > G, and good for you and family , I like people with principles and values and they certainly don't need to be same as mine.
I expect our principles and values are not so far apart Malc
> @ydoethur said: > > @ydoethur said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales > > > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!! > > > Almost but not quite. > > > > > > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn. > > > > The two are matching ugly bookends. > > They're both pandering to racist scumbags, both disturbingly close to rogue foreign governments, both dense as five posts, both putting forward impossible dreams based on their personal fantasies of a mythical past utopia and both have an almost cult-like following. > > But - please correct me if I am wrong - Farage has never supported or been an apologist for terrorists.
Also, the UK leaving the European Union is probably not as unrealistic or inconceivable a notion as the idea of living in a marxist-socialist paradise in which you don't have to queue for bread.
> > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
>
> > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
>
> > >
>
> > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
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> > >
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> > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
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> >
>
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> Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family
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> I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally
> @KentRising said: > > @ydoethur said: > > > @ydoethur said: > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales > > > > > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!! > > > > > Almost but not quite. > > > > > > > > > > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn. > > > > > > > > The two are matching ugly bookends. > > > > They're both pandering to racist scumbags, both disturbingly close to rogue foreign governments, both dense as five posts, both putting forward impossible dreams based on their personal fantasies of a mythical past utopia and both have an almost cult-like following. > > > > But - please correct me if I am wrong - Farage has never supported or been an apologist for terrorists. > > Also, the UK leaving the European Union is probably not as unrealistic or inconceivable a notion as the idea of living in a marxist-socialist paradise in which you don't have to queue for bread.
The malign cluelessness of Leavers is a strong argument against your assertion.
> @malcolmg said: > > @malcolmg said: > > > > @ThomasNashe said: > > > > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > > > > > @OldKingCole said: > > > > > > > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English. > > > > > > > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British > > > > > > > > > > > > > > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is. > > > > > > > > > > > > Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family > > > > > > I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally > > > > I know you are Malc and I respect your view but as a family we represent Scotland, Wales and England and consider ourselves British and value the union > > G, and good for you and family , I like people with principles and values and they certainly don't need to be same as mine.
My sister and brother in law (English) moved to Scotland immediately after their marriage, and had, and brought up,three daughters there. While at school, on the edge of the Highlands, the girls were known as 'the English girls! The two who went to Uni both went to Scots universities. One of them has married an Ulsterman!
> @isam said: > > If 30-35% of the commons backed no deal we’d have passed a deal ages ago. It doesn’t reflect the public. > > Ruling no deal Brexit out gave them licence to kick the can down the road, campaign for a 2nd referendum before we’ve left, or revoke. That’s why it needs to be there, and The Brexit Party have replaced it. > > 2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant memory.
So if you think May's Deal will soon be the worst hope what do you think will be better ?
And really completely out of step with other polls. Unless the country has gone over night from at least half and half Remain v Leave to suddenly loving Brexit then it looks weird especially as Comres continues the trend to have Remain winning another EU ref.
> If 30-35% of the commons backed no deal we’d have passed a deal ages ago. It doesn’t reflect the public.
>
> Ruling no deal Brexit out gave them licence to kick the can down the road, campaign for a 2nd referendum before we’ve left, or revoke. That’s why it needs to be there, and The Brexit Party have replaced it.
>
> 2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant memory.
So if you think May's Deal will soon be the worst hope what do you think will be better ?
A country led by someone and with a majority in the commons who were proud of the direction we were going in rather than scared.
> @SandyRentool said: > So will the first defection of an ERG MP happen before or after the EU elections? > > 20 of them jumping ship would be entertaining. > > However I think they will all stay so that they can influence the Tory leadership election. Then jump if one of their own doesn't get it.
Why would Farage want them ?
It would be more to his advantage to allow them to defect from the Conservatives but not allow them to join his gang.
> @ydoethur said: > @Big_G_NorthWales > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!! > Almost but not quite. > > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn.
True, afaik Corbyn has never made specific reference to the 'Jewish lobby' or said of George Soros that he wanted to 'break down the nation-state, he wants to break down the family unit, he wants to break down all of the norms that we attribute to Western society'. I'd have heard it endlessly on here if he had.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > On the Conservative leader market, why is Rory Stewart shorter priced than Sajid Javid?
He's the British Buttigieg - punters see other punters commenting admiringly, and think he must be value, when the objective data seem to suggest otherwise.
> @isam said: > > @isam said: > > > > > > If 30-35% of the commons backed no deal we’d have passed a deal ages ago. It doesn’t reflect the public. > > > > > > Ruling no deal Brexit out gave them licence to kick the can down the road, campaign for a 2nd referendum before we’ve left, or revoke. That’s why it needs to be there, and The Brexit Party have replaced it. > > > > > > 2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant memory. > > > > So if you think May's Deal will soon be the worst hope what do you think will be better ? > > A country led by someone and with a majority in the commons who were proud of the direction we were going in rather than scared.
Can you explain what that means in practical terms.
Who, for example, is this 'someone' ?
And does this 'someone' have to be competent in the skills of government ?
Britain's super rich are preparing to flee the country at the prospect of a Corbyn government taking almost £1 trillion with them, many are also making plans to move assets and businesses abroad
John McDonnell has been increasingly vocal in his desire to expropriate wealth, delist companies and nationalise businesses with little compensation. There’s a *LOT* of companies and wealthy individuals going to be planning to move assets out of the country, ready to hit the button before he’s even got his foot in the door of Number 11.
> > If 30-35% of the commons backed no deal we’d have passed a deal ages ago. It doesn’t reflect the public.
>
> >
>
> > Ruling no deal Brexit out gave them licence to kick the can down the road, campaign for a 2nd referendum before we’ve left, or revoke. That’s why it needs to be there, and The Brexit Party have replaced it.
>
> >
>
> > 2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant memory.
>
>
>
> So if you think May's Deal will soon be the worst hope what do you think will be better ?
>
> A country led by someone and with a majority in the commons who were proud of the direction we were going in rather than scared.
Can you explain what that means in practical terms.
Who, for example, is this 'someone' ?
And does this 'someone' have to be competent in the skills of government ?
And how does this 'someone' get a majority ?
Let your imagination flow, I can’t do all the work for you
> @NickPalmer said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > On the Conservative leader market, why is Rory Stewart shorter priced than Sajid Javid? > > He's the British Buttigieg - punters see other punters commenting admiringly, and think he must be value, when the objective data seem to suggest otherwise.
I actually came across the name Buttigieg (someone else) in a peripheral part of a presentation on Friday. I had to restrain myself from casually mentioning it and pronouncing it correctly. That’s what political betting has done to me.
> @isam said: > > @isam said: > > > > @isam said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If 30-35% of the commons backed no deal we’d have passed a deal ages ago. It doesn’t reflect the public. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ruling no deal Brexit out gave them licence to kick the can down the road, campaign for a 2nd referendum before we’ve left, or revoke. That’s why it needs to be there, and The Brexit Party have replaced it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant memory. > > > > > > > > > > > > So if you think May's Deal will soon be the worst hope what do you think will be better ? > > > > > > A country led by someone and with a majority in the commons who were proud of the direction we were going in rather than scared. > > > > Can you explain what that means in practical terms. > > Who, for example, is this 'someone' ? > > And does this 'someone' have to be competent in the skills of government ? > > And how does this 'someone' get a majority ? > > Let your imagination flow, I can’t do all the work for you
You can't do any work at all it seems.
Rather you prefer to leave the work to people who reside in the real world while you wallow in vague fantasies.
Britain's super rich are preparing to flee the country at the prospect of a Corbyn government taking almost £1 trillion with them, many are also making plans to move assets and businesses abroad
John McDonnell has been increasingly vocal in his desire to expropriate wealth, delist companies and nationalise businesses with little compensation. There’s a *LOT* of companies and wealthy individuals going to be planning to move assets out of the country, ready to hit the button before he’s even got his foot in the door of Number 11.
Zzzzzzz Heard it all before... Before May 1997 in fact
> @AlastairMeeks said: > > @NickPalmer said: > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > On the Conservative leader market, why is Rory Stewart shorter priced than Sajid Javid? > > > > He's the British Buttigieg - punters see other punters commenting admiringly, and think he must be value, when the objective data seem to suggest otherwise. > > I actually came across the name Buttigieg (someone else) in a peripheral part of a presentation on Friday. I had to restrain myself from casually mentioning it and pronouncing it correctly. That’s what political betting has done to me.
Farage's price is the annoying one - I laid him much higher so I can't swallow the 27 available. He might be PM, but it's highly unlikely he'll be the 'next' one.
> @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > @malcolmg said: > > > @ThomasNashe said: > > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > > > @OldKingCole said: > > > > > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > > > > > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English. > > > > > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British > > > > > > > > > > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is. > > > > > > > > Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family > > > > I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally > > I'm English, and ambivalent about the union.
"Little Englander" is one of those insults whose meaning has changed. Originally it meant anti-imperialist. Now it means anti-EU.
Mr. Divvie, you accidentally missed off 'rosbif', which I usually add whenever anyone complains about 'frog'.
Also, you might recall that Mr. G once complained about the term 'Scotch' [excepting when referring to whisky] being used. Ever since, I've avoided using the term.
As for "Hun Eyetie Sweaty Bog trotter Septic etc.", I haven't, to the best of my knowledge, used any of those on any occasion here. Quite remarkable you managed to include them whilst missing off rosbif.
Mr. Sandpit, not surprising, given the socialist insanity of Labour.
> @YBarddCwsc said: > One thing is now very, very clear. > > If the Tory party fails to Brexit in some form, it will lose in 2022 or before, possibly bigly. > > So, if we end up Remaining, then we will get PM Corbyn.
They are going to lose regardless. Even if they get the original withdrawal agreement through in some shape or form, the final agreement is going to go down like a packet of 2 week old sick.
Hey @Big_G (and other people), when you reply to posts, any chance you could trim the quoted stuff down to just the bit you're replying to? It's Vanilla's fault not yours, but once it gets a few levels deep it starts to tire out my scrolling fingers.
> @nico67 said: > Farage car crash on Marr . > > Shows him up for the lying spiv he is . ____________________________
Excellent. If Andrew Marr can trip him up, imagine Andrew Neil at work ...
Now a question for those who follow politics (even) more than me:
I signed the Revoke petition. To maximise the no. of pro-EU MEPs in the W. Mids. should I vote Green, my 1st preference, or Lib.Dem, my 2nd preference?
> @rottenborough said: > Morning all, > > I fear HS2 will be the first casualty of the forthcoming Tory leadership war.
The case has never been made for it.
What HS2 supporters should have demanded is that actual construction should have started by now and that the construction should have started in the North.
> > > If 30-35% of the commons backed no deal we’d have passed a deal ages ago. It doesn’t reflect the public.
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > Ruling no deal Brexit out gave them licence to kick the can down the road, campaign for a 2nd referendum before we’ve left, or revoke. That’s why it needs to be there, and The Brexit Party have replaced it.
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > 2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant memory.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
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> > So if you think May's Deal will soon be the worst hope what do you think will be better ?
>
> >
>
> > A country led by someone and with a majority in the commons who were proud of the direction we were going in rather than scared.
>
>
>
> Can you explain what that means in practical terms.
>
> Who, for example, is this 'someone' ?
>
> And does this 'someone' have to be competent in the skills of government ?
>
> And how does this 'someone' get a majority ?
>
> Let your imagination flow, I can’t do all the work for you
You can't do any work at all it seems.
Rather you prefer to leave the work to people who reside in the real world while you wallow in vague fantasies.
> @Morris_Dancer said: > Mr. Divvie, you accidentally missed off 'rosbif', which I usually add whenever anyone complains about 'frog'. > > Also, you might recall that Mr. G once complained about the term 'Scotch' [excepting when referring to whisky] being used. Ever since, I've avoided using the term. > > As for > "Hun > Eyetie > Sweaty > Bog trotter > Septic > etc.", > I haven't, to the best of my knowledge, used any of those on any occasion here. Quite remarkable you managed to include them whilst missing off rosbif.
Since Little Englander was the point of contention, I thought I'd put up a list of specifically English epithets for the MD imprimatur; Rosbif wouldn't qualify.
Personally couldn't give a feck about 'Scotch', I'll happily use it myself to satirise the type of folk who use it unironically.
I see Williamson has been blasting May for actions he was content to accept while in Cabinet but now he has been sacked he reveals he thinks are a betrayal. Such integrity.
On topic, yes there is a real possibility of the Tories doing just that badly. It's even a bit sad because for all the terribleness by which is has been executed May and her government have at least tried to leave the EU, and those who will be rewarded either have not, or have such unreasonable expectations their attempts have been little more than 'everyone will do what we want if we yell loud enough'
> I fear HS2 will be the first casualty of the forthcoming Tory leadership war.
The case has never been made for it.
What HS2 supporters should have demanded is that actual construction should have started by now and that the construction should have started in the North.
Yes but just like the remainers now complaining that the case wasn’t made properly for the EU in the referendum, the trouble is the case for it just isn’t that good.
It would never have started in the North because it was never really going to extend beyond Birmingham. It’s about serving the London commuter market, it does sod all for the rest of the country.
Mr. Cwsc, there's a possibility, outside chance as it is, that the Brexit Party and maybe even the Lib Dems could do well enough to make Parliament as well hung as a Grand National winner.
Comments
> > @Scott_P said:
> > Mr. P, it's dumb.
> >
> > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known.
> >
> > Ummm, that's the point.
> >
> > Why do you think it's an insult?
> >
> > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
>
> I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
> > @Sandpit said:
> > > @Sandpit said:
> >
> > > Labour at better than evens in Peterborough by election looks value.
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> > > Who’s their candidate? Local union rep or councillor, or parachuted-in Corbynite Loyalist from London?
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> > Unite trade unionist, lived there for 30 years, was previous candidate in 2015 when she lost to Stewart Jackson by 2000 votes.
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> > Edit: she was a city councillor until 2016 I think.
> >
> > Thanks. Sounds like a good candidate. I think it’s 50/50 between Lab and Brexit Party, who also have a good candidate.
> >
> > I think the way it goes will depend a lot on the fallout from the EU elections a couple of weeks before. One or other party will be seen as in the ascendancy, and that party will likely win in Peterborough.
>
> Just looked him up, he does look like a strong candidate also. I think the fact that Labour are an established party in the area, the Tories may take votes from Brexit party and the fact that Labour were involved in the recall petition make Labour slight favourites.
I love how we're now talking about the Tories "taking votes" from the Brexit Party.
> > @isam said:
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> > > > Seems to me that talk of PM Farage and the panicky reverse expectation management over how the Brexit Party will do is their aim rather than actual power. If enough MPs vote for the withdrawal deal next time because they fear Farage and Co will win their seats off them, it will be job done.
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> > > > I can see it now; the Anti Faragists, who were getting excited about the revoke petition 6 weeks ago, claiming victory as the MPs vote through the deal, without realising they’ve been duped.
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> > > Interesting - so Farage secretly supports the WA?
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> >
>
> > > I doubt it, but for those who just want Brexit delivered, his party putting the frighteners on those who thought they could legislate their worst nightmare (no deal) away while they connived to remain, is just what is needed.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I’d have thought a party advocating a No Deal Brexit winning most votes on 23rd May would embolden the ERG and the rest of the Tory No Dealers.
>
> >
>
> > Yes it would also give the ultra remainers notice that the worst option is no longer Mays deal but No deal, which might wake them up to the fact they promised to respect the vote to leave.
>
> >
>
> > The kids managed to remove the punishment of detention for not doing their homework, and now few of them bother doing it. All of a sudden there’s a real threat of the cane being reintroduced.
>
>
>
> The polls have told us for a while that 30% to 35% of voters back a No Deal Brexit. The election looks likely to confirm that, so showing a majority agrees that MPs are right to rule a No Deal Brexit out.
>
> Ruling no deal Brexit out gave them licence to kick the can down the road, campaign for a 2nd referendum before we’ve left, or revoke. That’s why it needs to be there, and The Brexit Party have replaced it.
>
> 2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant Memory.
May’s deal is Brexit, but it will only get through the Common’s if it is subject to a referendum. And that will only happen if the choice offered is May’s deal or Remain. The only way that changes is if the EP elections tell us something we don’t already know.
I think paralysis until 2022 is what we will get, doubt that will please literally anyone and the country will end up even more divided and less civil in its politics than it has already become. Other countries will continue to gain advantages over us whilst we look inwards. For a fantasy that does not exist.
Taking the medicine (WA) now, starting the process of leaving and recovering is better than paralysis with an unknown outcome, so people should move towards it, but partly politics dictates the opposite.
> > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
> > > @Scott_P said:
> > > Mr. P, it's dumb.
> > >
> > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known.
> > >
> > > Ummm, that's the point.
> > >
> > > Why do you think it's an insult?
> > >
> > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
> >
> > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
>
> Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
> BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
Pen hovering between BREXIT party and Labour
Sense prevailed.
> Just voted in Euros.
>
> Pen hovering between BREXIT party and Labour
>
> Sense prevailed.
>
You voted for Farage !!!!!!!
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Britain's super rich are preparing to flee the country at the prospect of a Corbyn government taking almost £1 trillion with them, many are also making plans to move assets and businesses abroad
> >
> >
> > https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sunday-times-rich-list-wealthy-prepare-to-flee-corbyn-britain-9l25snfx0?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0ppnYXk715WUJTL2I3ym3kydMh1VPw4l1dSVyrTMu2PrRGSLusIN0fX5U#Echobox=1557618340
>
> Not very patriotic, are they?
So what. You can't run public services without their cash. Look at Venezuela - and now Cuba. I'd have thought you'd be keen to retire to a socialist paradise with your cash.
Jedi mind tricksarrow work?It'd also be less stupid than the customs union wibbling that's going on currently.
> > @bigjohnowls said:
> > Just voted in Euros.
> >
> > Pen hovering between BREXIT party and Labour
> >
> > Sense prevailed.
> >
>
> You voted for Farage !!!!!!!
Almost but not quite.
> > @OldKingCole said:
> > > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
> > > > @Scott_P said:
> > > > Mr. P, it's dumb.
> > > >
> > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known.
> > > >
> > > > Ummm, that's the point.
> > > >
> > > > Why do you think it's an insult?
> > > >
> > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
> > >
> > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
> >
> > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
> > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
>
> I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
>
> I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
There's a lot of us about! One of my sons married a Thai girl so we have three half-Thai grandchildren. Elder one is just a teenager so sorting out her identity. She's happier speaking English so has always regarded herself as English, but her recent history studies have given her a much greater sympathy with Thailand. (Never colonised etc.)
> Just voted in Euros.
>
> Pen hovering between BREXIT party and Labour
>
> Sense prevailed.
>
> Did the Jedi mind tricks arrow work?
The hip hop band from Philadelphia
> > @Foxy said:
>
> > > @IanB2 said:
>
> > > FPT:
>
> > >
>
> > > > @HYUFD said:
>
> > > > Astonishingly Opinium now has the Tory Party getting more votes from Remainers, 12%, than the 11% it gets from Leavers in the European Parliament elections with so many Leavers now voting Brexit Party. Which will please William Glenn if few Tory MPs bar the likes of Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve and Justine Greening
>
> > > >
>
> > > > https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2019/05/11/brexit-party-doubles-lead-over-labour-in-european-election-poll/
>
> > >
>
> > > It’s what several of us have been predicting for some time. The residual Tory EU election vote will be a majority Remain vote.
>
> > >
>
> > > You’ve been too busy getting excited about PM Farage to notice.
>
> >
>
> > Quite extraordinary loyalty, to be a Remain voting Tory. I would have thought the few voting Tory still would be backers of the Deal.
>
> >
>
> > Surely though we will see May gone and a new Leader immediately post EU elections? The Deal then returns as the only alternative to No Deal.
>
>
>
> I voted Remain but now back the Deal, same with BigG and I suspect the same holds for some other Remain voting Tories
>
> I voted Remain and thought May's deal was an acceptable compromise given the referendum result. I rarely vote Conservative, but I can certainly imagine that I might have turned out for them at the Euros to keep Farage's no deal guys out. But only if I thought that the Conservatives were able to actually deliver their proposal. And even more crucially, if the race was between the Conservatives and TBP. As it is I am watching the polls to see what the most effective anti-Farage vote is - but it sure as heck isn't going to be the blues.
I primarily want to vote anti-no deal, anti ERG & Farage, but not necessarily pro remain. In the weird situation of choosing between Greens and Tories at the moment.....
You could be wrong there.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @OldKingCole said:
> > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
> > > > > @Scott_P said:
> > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb.
> > > > >
> > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ummm, that's the point.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why do you think it's an insult?
> > > > >
> > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
> > > >
> > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
> > >
> > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
> > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
> >
> > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
> >
> > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
>
> There's a lot of us about! One of my sons married a Thai girl so we have three half-Thai grandchildren. Elder one is just a teenager so sorting out her identity. She's happier speaking English so has always regarded herself as English, but her recent history studies have given her a much greater sympathy with Thailand. (Never colonised etc.)
Grandchildren enrich our lives enormously and our eldest granddaughter is 16 today.
Strangely she shares the same birthday as Madeline McCann and has a similar mark in her eye as Madeline
> > @OldKingCole said:
> > > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
> > > > @Scott_P said:
> > > > Mr. P, it's dumb.
> > > >
> > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known.
> > > >
> > > > Ummm, that's the point.
> > > >
> > > > Why do you think it's an insult?
> > > >
> > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
> > >
> > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
> >
> > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
> > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
>
> I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
>
> I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is.
> @Big_G_NorthWales
> > You voted for Farage !!!!!!!
> Almost but not quite.
>
> With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn.
The two are matching ugly bookends.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @OldKingCole said:
> > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
> > > > > @Scott_P said:
> > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb.
> > > > >
> > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ummm, that's the point.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why do you think it's an insult?
> > > > >
> > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
> > > >
> > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
> > >
> > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
> > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
> >
> > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
> >
> > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
>
> English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is.
Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family
> Just voted in Euros.
>
> Pen hovering between BREXIT party and Labour
>
> Sense prevailed.
>
I do hope that 'hover' was more of a nervous twitch.
> > @ydoethur said:
> > @Big_G_NorthWales
> > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!!
> > Almost but not quite.
> >
> > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn.
>
> The two are matching ugly bookends.
Very much so
But - please correct me if I am wrong - Farage has never supported or been an apologist for terrorists.
Textbook May.
> Mr. Above, the Greens are for Remain, aren't they?
Second order issue for the Greens. As it is for Labour.
There are more important things in the world than our membership or otherwise of the EU.
I should probably re-read Livy's work on the matter, to be honest.
> > @ydoethur said:
>
> > @Big_G_NorthWales
>
> > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!!
>
> > Almost but not quite.
>
> >
>
> > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn.
>
>
>
> The two are matching ugly bookends.
>
> They're both pandering to racist scumbags, both disturbingly close to rogue foreign governments, both dense as five posts, both putting forward impossible dreams based on their personal fantasies of a mythical past utopia and both have an almost cult-like following.
>
> But - please correct me if I am wrong - Farage has never supported or been an apologist for terrorists.
He has not one but two MEP candidates who supported the IRA’s bombing campaigns.
Of course, he’s picking up his rifle himself.
> > @Foxy said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > Britain's super rich are preparing to flee the country at the prospect of a Corbyn government taking almost £1 trillion with them, many are also making plans to move assets and businesses abroad
> > >
> > >
> > > https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sunday-times-rich-list-wealthy-prepare-to-flee-corbyn-britain-9l25snfx0?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0ppnYXk715WUJTL2I3ym3kydMh1VPw4l1dSVyrTMu2PrRGSLusIN0fX5U#Echobox=1557618340
> >
> > Not very patriotic, are they?
>
> Heh.. Anyone who had any money if terrified they would be stuffed by Labour would take such steps its only natural. Patriotism doesn't come into it..
You seem to be agreeing with Foxy that patriotism doesn't come into it.
> > @Morris_Dancer said:
> > Mr. Above, the Greens are for Remain, aren't they?
>
> Second order issue for the Greens. As it is for Labour.
>
> There are more important things in the world than our membership or otherwise of the EU.
Yes the Green vote would be to encourage other parties to be more green to tackle the problems, rather than because I agree with the Greens on the solutions.
> > @Morris_Dancer said:
> > Mr. Above, the Greens are for Remain, aren't they?
>
> Second order issue for the Greens. As it is for Labour.
>
> There are more important things in the world than our membership or otherwise of the EU.
The EU is just the tip of the 'iceberg' (lol) for the Greens. They want a one-world government like something out of Star Trek, presumably with the officials journeying from around the world by foot and sail to sit in quorum under a great cedar tree. Or something.
> > @ThomasNashe said:
>
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
>
> > > > @OldKingCole said:
>
> > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
>
> > > > > > @Scott_P said:
>
> > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > Ummm, that's the point.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult?
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
>
> > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
>
> > >
>
> > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
>
> > >
>
> > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
>
> >
>
> > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is.
>
>
>
> Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family
>
> I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally
I know you are Malc and I respect your view but as a family we represent Scotland, Wales and England and consider ourselves British and value the union
> Butt hurt and insults is all the “one nation in thrall to the civil service “ spreadsheet wielding managerial rump of the Cameroon- Blairite past have left.
*
The term "butt hurt" is rarely found in a comment of calm and insightful wisdom on a politics forum.
Such is my experience anyway.
> > @ThomasNashe said:
>
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
>
> > > > @OldKingCole said:
>
> > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
>
> > > > > > @Scott_P said:
>
> > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > Ummm, that's the point.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult?
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
>
> > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
>
> > >
>
> > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
>
> > >
>
> > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
>
> >
>
> > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is.
>
>
>
> Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family
>
> I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally
I'm English, and ambivalent about the union.
> > @malcolmg said:
>
> > > @ThomasNashe said:
>
> >
>
> > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
>
> >
>
> > > > > @OldKingCole said:
>
> >
>
> > > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > @Scott_P said:
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb.
>
> >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point.
>
> >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult?
>
> >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
>
> >
>
> > > > > >
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
>
> >
>
> > > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family
>
> >
>
> > I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally
>
>
>
> I know you are Malc and I respect your view but as a family we represent Scotland, Wales and England and consider ourselves British and value the union
>
> G, and good for you and family , I like people with principles and values and they certainly don't need to be same as mine.
I expect our principles and values are not so far apart Malc
> > @ydoethur said:
>
> > @Big_G_NorthWales
>
> > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!!
>
> > Almost but not quite.
>
> >
>
> > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn.
>
>
>
> The two are matching ugly bookends.
>
> They're both pandering to racist scumbags, both disturbingly close to rogue foreign governments, both dense as five posts, both putting forward impossible dreams based on their personal fantasies of a mythical past utopia and both have an almost cult-like following.
>
> But - please correct me if I am wrong - Farage has never supported or been an apologist for terrorists.
Also, the UK leaving the European Union is probably not as unrealistic or inconceivable a notion as the idea of living in a marxist-socialist paradise in which you don't have to queue for bread.
> > @ydoethur said:
> > > @ydoethur said:
> >
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales
> >
> > > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!!
> >
> > > Almost but not quite.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn.
> >
> >
> >
> > The two are matching ugly bookends.
> >
> > They're both pandering to racist scumbags, both disturbingly close to rogue foreign governments, both dense as five posts, both putting forward impossible dreams based on their personal fantasies of a mythical past utopia and both have an almost cult-like following.
> >
> > But - please correct me if I am wrong - Farage has never supported or been an apologist for terrorists.
>
> Also, the UK leaving the European Union is probably not as unrealistic or inconceivable a notion as the idea of living in a marxist-socialist paradise in which you don't have to queue for bread.
The malign cluelessness of Leavers is a strong argument against your assertion.
> > @malcolmg said:
>
> > > @ThomasNashe said:
>
> >
>
> > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
>
> >
>
> > > > > @OldKingCole said:
>
> >
>
> > > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > @Scott_P said:
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb.
>
> >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point.
>
> >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult?
>
> >
>
> > > > > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
>
> >
>
> > > > > >
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
>
> >
>
> > > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family
>
> >
>
> > I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally
>
>
>
> I know you are Malc and I respect your view but as a family we represent Scotland, Wales and England and consider ourselves British and value the union
>
> G, and good for you and family , I like people with principles and values and they certainly don't need to be same as mine.
My sister and brother in law (English) moved to Scotland immediately after their marriage, and had, and brought up,three daughters there. While at school, on the edge of the Highlands, the girls were known as 'the English girls! The two who went to Uni both went to Scots universities. One of them has married an Ulsterman!
Here's a thought - maybe we could combine that with other nations across the channel? We could call it a European Union
> Mr. P, 'Little Englander' is an insult.
Could we have an MD approved list of intra national banter?
eg:
Frog
Hun
Eyetie
Sweaty
Bog trotter
Septic
etc.
>
> If 30-35% of the commons backed no deal we’d have passed a deal ages ago. It doesn’t reflect the public.
>
> Ruling no deal Brexit out gave them licence to kick the can down the road, campaign for a 2nd referendum before we’ve left, or revoke. That’s why it needs to be there, and The Brexit Party have replaced it.
>
> 2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant memory.
So if you think May's Deal will soon be the worst hope what do you think will be better ?
And really completely out of step with other polls. Unless the country has gone over night from at least half and half Remain v Leave to suddenly loving Brexit then it looks weird especially as Comres continues the trend to have Remain winning another EU ref.
> So will the first defection of an ERG MP happen before or after the EU elections?
>
> 20 of them jumping ship would be entertaining.
>
> However I think they will all stay so that they can influence the Tory leadership election. Then jump if one of their own doesn't get it.
Why would Farage want them ?
It would be more to his advantage to allow them to defect from the Conservatives but not allow them to join his gang.
A One Nation Conservative would be scared.
> @Big_G_NorthWales
> > You voted for Farage !!!!!!!
> Almost but not quite.
>
> With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn.
True, afaik Corbyn has never made specific reference to the 'Jewish lobby' or said of George Soros that he wanted to 'break down the nation-state, he wants to break down the family unit, he wants to break down all of the norms that we attribute to Western society'. I'd have heard it endlessly on here if he had.
> On the Conservative leader market, why is Rory Stewart shorter priced than Sajid Javid?
He's the British Buttigieg - punters see other punters commenting admiringly, and think he must be value, when the objective data seem to suggest otherwise.
> > @isam said:
>
> >
>
> > If 30-35% of the commons backed no deal we’d have passed a deal ages ago. It doesn’t reflect the public.
>
> >
>
> > Ruling no deal Brexit out gave them licence to kick the can down the road, campaign for a 2nd referendum before we’ve left, or revoke. That’s why it needs to be there, and The Brexit Party have replaced it.
>
> >
>
> > 2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant memory.
>
>
>
> So if you think May's Deal will soon be the worst hope what do you think will be better ?
>
> A country led by someone and with a majority in the commons who were proud of the direction we were going in rather than scared.
Can you explain what that means in practical terms.
Who, for example, is this 'someone' ?
And does this 'someone' have to be competent in the skills of government ?
And how does this 'someone' get a majority ?
John McDonnell has been increasingly vocal in his desire to expropriate wealth, delist companies and nationalise businesses with little compensation. There’s a *LOT* of companies and wealthy individuals going to be planning to move assets out of the country, ready to hit the button before he’s even got his foot in the door of Number 11.
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > On the Conservative leader market, why is Rory Stewart shorter priced than Sajid Javid?
>
> He's the British Buttigieg - punters see other punters commenting admiringly, and think he must be value, when the objective data seem to suggest otherwise.
I actually came across the name Buttigieg (someone else) in a peripheral part of a presentation on Friday. I had to restrain myself from casually mentioning it and pronouncing it correctly. That’s what political betting has done to me.
I fear HS2 will be the first casualty of the forthcoming Tory leadership war.
> > @isam said:
>
> > > @isam said:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > If 30-35% of the commons backed no deal we’d have passed a deal ages ago. It doesn’t reflect the public.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Ruling no deal Brexit out gave them licence to kick the can down the road, campaign for a 2nd referendum before we’ve left, or revoke. That’s why it needs to be there, and The Brexit Party have replaced it.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 2 months ago, I’d say it was quite likely we’d have a 2nd ref before we left, or would revoke, and the best a leaver could hope for was Mays Deal. It could be the case that soon the worst it could be is Mays Deal, with revoke and 2nd ref a distant memory.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > So if you think May's Deal will soon be the worst hope what do you think will be better ?
>
> >
>
> > A country led by someone and with a majority in the commons who were proud of the direction we were going in rather than scared.
>
>
>
> Can you explain what that means in practical terms.
>
> Who, for example, is this 'someone' ?
>
> And does this 'someone' have to be competent in the skills of government ?
>
> And how does this 'someone' get a majority ?
>
> Let your imagination flow, I can’t do all the work for you
You can't do any work at all it seems.
Rather you prefer to leave the work to people who reside in the real world while you wallow in vague fantasies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Labour,_New_Danger
> > @NickPalmer said:
> > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > On the Conservative leader market, why is Rory Stewart shorter priced than Sajid Javid?
> >
> > He's the British Buttigieg - punters see other punters commenting admiringly, and think he must be value, when the objective data seem to suggest otherwise.
>
> I actually came across the name Buttigieg (someone else) in a peripheral part of a presentation on Friday. I had to restrain myself from casually mentioning it and pronouncing it correctly. That’s what political betting has done to me.
Farage's price is the annoying one - I laid him much higher so I can't swallow the 27 available. He might be PM, but it's highly unlikely he'll be the 'next' one.
https://twitter.com/katiepaterson25/status/1126072327081426945
Shows him up for the lying spiv he is .
> > @malcolmg said:
> > > @ThomasNashe said:
> >
> > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> >
> > > > > @OldKingCole said:
> >
> > > > > > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
> >
> > > > > > > @Scott_P said:
> >
> > > > > > > Mr. P, it's dumb.
> >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > Insulting people is rarely a way to persuade them. And then you ask why they aren't 'out and proud'. As if you didn't just insult them for holding the view you're then wondering about them perhaps not wanting publicly known.
> >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > Ummm, that's the point.
> >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > Why do you think it's an insult?
> >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > If they were proud of it, they wouldn't be insulted by it.
> >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > I'm English. I'm not insulted or ashamed by being identified as English. It depends on how you view England. Your view seems to be that it's something to be ashamed of to be English. You tie up being English with racism, the empire, Farage, UKIP and "gammons in blazers". That's you being a c***, mind. My England isn't like that.
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > Quite right. Extremists are always unpleasant, but there's nothing to be ashamed of in being English.
> >
> > > > > BtW I'm half-English, half-Welsh, so describe myself as British.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I did not realise that we share the same heritage OKC.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I am half Welsh half English, my wife is a Scot and our 3 children consider themselves Welsh, but we all answer to being British
> >
> > >
> >
> > > English father, Scottish mother, born in Wales. For me, British is simply a much more accurate description of my identity than English is.
> >
> >
> >
> > Very much our families attitude but we also a very pro Union family
> >
> > I am opposite, Scottish only and anti Union totally
>
> I'm English, and ambivalent about the union.
"Little Englander" is one of those insults whose meaning has changed. Originally it meant anti-imperialist. Now it means anti-EU.
Mr. Divvie, you accidentally missed off 'rosbif', which I usually add whenever anyone complains about 'frog'.
Also, you might recall that Mr. G once complained about the term 'Scotch' [excepting when referring to whisky] being used. Ever since, I've avoided using the term.
As for
"Hun
Eyetie
Sweaty
Bog trotter
Septic
etc.",
I haven't, to the best of my knowledge, used any of those on any occasion here. Quite remarkable you managed to include them whilst missing off rosbif.
Mr. Sandpit, not surprising, given the socialist insanity of Labour.
In case you missed it, my pre-race ramble, with four tips (half-stakes, for me, anyway) is up here:
https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2019/05/spain-pre-race-2019.html
If the Tory party fails to Brexit in some form, it will lose in 2022 or before, possibly bigly.
So, if we end up Remaining, then we will get PM Corbyn.
> One thing is now very, very clear.
>
> If the Tory party fails to Brexit in some form, it will lose in 2022 or before, possibly bigly.
>
> So, if we end up Remaining, then we will get PM Corbyn.
They are going to lose regardless. Even if they get the original withdrawal agreement through in some shape or form, the final agreement is going to go down like a packet of 2 week old sick.
> [various things]
Hey @Big_G (and other people), when you reply to posts, any chance you could trim the quoted stuff down to just the bit you're replying to? It's Vanilla's fault not yours, but once it gets a few levels deep it starts to tire out my scrolling fingers.
> Farage car crash on Marr .
>
> Shows him up for the lying spiv he is .
____________________________
Excellent. If Andrew Marr can trip him up, imagine Andrew Neil at work ...
Now a question for those who follow politics (even) more than me:
I signed the Revoke petition. To maximise the no. of pro-EU MEPs in the W. Mids. should I vote Green, my 1st preference, or Lib.Dem, my 2nd preference?
> Morning all,
>
> I fear HS2 will be the first casualty of the forthcoming Tory leadership war.
The case has never been made for it.
What HS2 supporters should have demanded is that actual construction should have started by now and that the construction should have started in the North.
> Farage car crash on Marr .
>
> Shows him up for the lying spiv he is .
BREXIT party voters dont watch Marr
Still trying to work out who speaks for Labour on Brexit, Adonis or Gardiner, one claims Labour is for Remain, the other Leave.
> Mr. Divvie, you accidentally missed off 'rosbif', which I usually add whenever anyone complains about 'frog'.
>
> Also, you might recall that Mr. G once complained about the term 'Scotch' [excepting when referring to whisky] being used. Ever since, I've avoided using the term.
>
> As for
> "Hun
> Eyetie
> Sweaty
> Bog trotter
> Septic
> etc.",
> I haven't, to the best of my knowledge, used any of those on any occasion here. Quite remarkable you managed to include them whilst missing off rosbif.
Since Little Englander was the point of contention, I thought I'd put up a list of specifically English epithets for the MD imprimatur; Rosbif wouldn't qualify.
Personally couldn't give a feck about 'Scotch', I'll happily use it myself to satirise the type of folk who use it unironically.
On topic, yes there is a real possibility of the Tories doing just that badly. It's even a bit sad because for all the terribleness by which is has been executed May and her government have at least tried to leave the EU, and those who will be rewarded either have not, or have such unreasonable expectations their attempts have been little more than 'everyone will do what we want if we yell loud enough'
It would never have started in the North because it was never really going to extend beyond Birmingham. It’s about serving the London commuter market, it does sod all for the rest of the country.