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  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited April 2019
    IanB2 said:

    Yet inheritance tax is probably the most progressive tax of all. And who, given the choice, would choose to pay tax when alive than when dead?

    Most people apparently.

    Pay up to 40 per cent tax on your hard earned pension while you are alive - fine.

    Place a tax on money or assets handed over as a gift to a relative or friend who never worked for it or earned it - even when said value of assets were never really earned by the bequeather (eg a house bought for a few grand now worth a million or more) - a national scandal and a tax on the dead.

    Only about 10 per cent of estates last time I looked were subject to inheritance tax. The poor and middle class seem to love paying more income tax and vat and council tax etc while they are alive so the rich can leave more to their sixty five year old kids when they die.

    But you are stealing our ‘family home’ they cry - yes the home you left 40 years ago!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    edited April 2019
    Mr. Sandpit (been working, oddly, hence slow reply), don't forget he got a podium finish there once...

    Edited extra bit: just glanced at the F1 Twitter feed. Your Leclerc tip looking tasty.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. 16, increasing numbers of people are leaving home later, though, due to high property prices...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244
    edited April 2019

    For me, there's a difference between talking about a group of identifiable Jewish or Irish people successfully acting together to advance shared interests, and implying that "(all) Jews are a powerful group". "Jewish lobby" is potentially problematic if there is no such defined group, but it's likely to be better than "The Jews".

    In short.. assigning almost any characteristic or behaviour to a group of people based on their race or religion (or sexual orientation or hair colour or whatever) is likely to cause widespread offence because it will almost certainly not be universally true. Even if there is a proven higher propensity, one still shouldn't generalise.

    Definitely agree as regards the character and personality of an individual. Everyone is the same - or more accurately everyone is different and the spread of difference is the same across groups.

    Behaviour and views though? I think there one can sometimes make valid generalizations that are not stereotyping. For example, a very devout Catholic is likely to attend church and is unlikely to be supportive of abortion.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    Mr. Sandpit (been working, oddly, hence slow reply), don't forget he got a podium finish there once...

    Indeed he did. 3rd place in 2017. Should have been second, but Bottas got him on the line by less than a tenth of a second.

    Danil Kvyat is now being Danil Kvyat, stopping the session again.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244

    Got asked that question in two of my Oxford maths interviews (ChristChurch & Pembroke). Luckily I'd read about it in the Racing Post sport section two weeks previously.

    Yes I really like the Monty Hall.

    How about "Estimate the horsepower of a grasshopper"?

    Cambridge did that one.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    MikeL said:

    I wonder how many people in line to receive these inheritances have just stopped for one moment and contemplated what a Corbyn Government might mean for them personally.

    It's one thing being happy to pay a bit more tax - I wonder how many people would be happy to lose a large chunk of a life changing inheritance.

    I suspect it's never occurred to many such people just how much they would be affected.
    It is difficult. I've been shafted by the status quo for decades but the payoff is that I stand to eventually benefit at an indeterminate point in the future, so it would be unfortunate timing for me personally if the rules change just before I would otherwise receive an inheritance.

    However, it will be better for my children, who haven't yet gone through the decades of being shafted, so I think I'd still take the trade.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Sandpit, damned tight margin. Good commitment by Bottas, though.

    Racing Point has the most F1 podium finishes, amongst its drivers, of any team. Which is weird.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244

    There's a rap version of this paradox. Sir Mix-A-Lot likes big butts and he cannot lie. His brother does not like big butts and he cannot tell the truth...

    :-)

    Oh god. What's the punchline.

    End up in the shit either way?
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Anorak said:

    kinabalu said:

    I always lie. In fact, I am lying to you now! :)

    :-)

    You've probably heard it but -

    You reach a fork in the road, one way leads to paradise, the other to purgatory.

    There are 2 creatures standing there. One always tells the truth, the other always lies. You know this but you do not know which is which.

    You are allowed to ask one question (to one or the other, does not matter) the answer to which will tell you the fork to choose.

    What is the question?
    The D&D solution

    Guard 1:ONE OF US SPEAKS NOTHING BUT TRUTH

    Guard 2:THE OTHER NOTHING BUT LIES

    Wizard: ok, i know this, we have to ask..

    Barbarian: *takes axe and kills the first guard*

    Wizard: WHAT THE HELL!

    Barbarian: *to remaining guard* is he dead

    Guard 2:NO

    barbarian: this one liar.

    i'm lost. so is guard 1 always telling truth and guard 2 always lying? the latter cant be true as saying "the other nothing but lies" would then be true which means it is false.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    Mr. Sandpit, damned tight margin. Good commitment by Bottas, though.

    Racing Point has the most F1 podium finishes, amongst its drivers, of any team. Which is weird.

    “Racing Point has the most F1 podium finishes In Azerbaijan, amongst its drivers, of any team”
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,854
    brendan16 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Yet inheritance tax is probably the most progressive tax of all. And who, given the choice, would choose to pay tax when alive than when dead?

    Most people apparently.

    Pay up to 40 per cent tax on your hard earned pension while you are alive - fine.

    Place a tax on money or assets handed over as a gift to a relative or friend who never worked for it or earned it - even when said value of assets were never really earned by the bequeather (eg a house bought for a few grand now worth a million or more) - a national scandal and a tax on the dead.

    Only about 10 per cent of estates last time I looked were subject to inheritance tax. The poor and middle class seem to love paying more income tax and vat and council tax etc while they are alive so the rich can leave more to their sixty five year old kids when they die.

    But you are stealing our ‘family home’ they cry - yes the home you left 40 years ago!
    It is one of the mysteries of political opinion that people are so opposed to inheritance tax, especially those that have few or no assets, complain about the status quo, but then would view increasing inheritance tax (or even merely closing down loopholes used by the seriously wealthy) as taxing the dead or double taxation.

    Enforcing and upping the rate of inheritance tax is the sort of policy Change UK could have adopted, being clearly distinctive, re-distributive and something that neither of the main parties are willing to touch for fear of alienating their voter base.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. 64, the cop-out answer is that the 'one' or the 'other' could be either guard, so both statements can be correct.

    Of course, one should simply ask "What would the other guard say is the correct thing to do?" and then do the opposite.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    edited April 2019

    brendan16 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Yet inheritance tax is probably the most progressive tax of all. And who, given the choice, would choose to pay tax when alive than when dead?

    Most people apparently.

    Pay up to 40 per cent tax on your hard earned pension while you are alive - fine.

    Place a tax on money or assets handed over as a gift to a relative or friend who never worked for it or earned it - even when said value of assets were never really earned by the bequeather (eg a house bought for a few grand now worth a million or more) - a national scandal and a tax on the dead.

    Only about 10 per cent of estates last time I looked were subject to inheritance tax. The poor and middle class seem to love paying more income tax and vat and council tax etc while they are alive so the rich can leave more to their sixty five year old kids when they die.

    But you are stealing our ‘family home’ they cry - yes the home you left 40 years ago!
    It is one of the mysteries of political opinion that people are so opposed to inheritance tax, especially those that have few or no assets, complain about the status quo, but then would view increasing inheritance tax (or even merely closing down loopholes used by the seriously wealthy) as taxing the dead or double taxation.

    Enforcing and upping the rate of inheritance tax is the sort of policy Change UK could have adopted, being clearly distinctive, re-distributive and something that neither of the main parties are willing to touch for fear of alienating their voter base.
    Given that their core demographic are the property-owning chattering classes of north and west London, that proposal would be unlikely to have a positive effect on their vote share.

    Hopefully Labour will propose a massive increase in inheritance tax before the next election, then maybe the well-off luvvies and their kids who support them, might start to see what they’re really like underneath.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Sandpit, aye, I did actually consider adding that, but... didn't. I left it to you to work out that subtle qualification :p
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    kinabalu said:

    For me, there's a difference between talking about a group of identifiable Jewish or Irish people successfully acting together to advance shared interests, and implying that "(all) Jews are a powerful group". "Jewish lobby" is potentially problematic if there is no such defined group, but it's likely to be better than "The Jews".

    In short.. assigning almost any characteristic or behaviour to a group of people based on their race or religion (or sexual orientation or hair colour or whatever) is likely to cause widespread offence because it will almost certainly not be universally true. Even if there is a proven higher propensity, one still shouldn't generalise.

    Definitely agree as regards the character and personality of an individual. Everyone is the same - or more accurately everyone is different and the spread of difference is the same across groups.

    Behaviour and views though? I think there one can sometimes make valid generalizations that are not stereotyping. For example, a very devout Catholic is likely to attend church and is unlikely to be supportive of abortion.
    I think if one accurately describes a factual increased likelihood, that's fine. Also, 'devout' - if not necessarily 'Catholic' - implies a choice to obey those requirements.

    Jewishness also encompasses more than religion. It's harder to use the term "secular Catholic" than "secular Jew".

    Maybe, therefore, I shouldn't have included 'religion' alongside race, sexual orientation and hair colour, in as much as it's more a matter of choice than the others.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,854
    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Yet inheritance tax is probably the most progressive tax of all. And who, given the choice, would choose to pay tax when alive than when dead?

    Most people apparently.

    Pay up to 40 per cent tax on your hard earned pension while you are alive - fine.

    Place a tax on money or assets handed over as a gift to a relative or friend who never worked for it or earned it - even when said value of assets were never really earned by the bequeather (eg a house bought for a few grand now worth a million or more) - a national scandal and a tax on the dead.

    Only about 10 per cent of estates last time I looked were subject to inheritance tax. The poor and middle class seem to love paying more income tax and vat and council tax etc while they are alive so the rich can leave more to their sixty five year old kids when they die.

    But you are stealing our ‘family home’ they cry - yes the home you left 40 years ago!
    It is one of the mysteries of political opinion that people are so opposed to inheritance tax, especially those that have few or no assets, complain about the status quo, but then would view increasing inheritance tax (or even merely closing down loopholes used by the seriously wealthy) as taxing the dead or double taxation.

    Enforcing and upping the rate of inheritance tax is the sort of policy Change UK could have adopted, being clearly distinctive, re-distributive and something that neither of the main parties are willing to touch for fear of alienating their voter base.
    Given that their core demographic are the property-owning chattering classes of north and west London, that proposal would be unlikely to have a positive effect on their vote share.
    You might be surprised to find that many of the "metropolitan, chattering, liberal elite" are actually renters often with little capital. Some may be in line to inherit, but nearly all of them under 50 will realise how unfair life is on young people without capital wanting to work and live in the capital. If the money raised went to further increase the personal allowance it would attract those who can see the bigger picture.

    It would also give them an opportunity to argue against the status quo positions from both Tory and Labour, where the status quo is emphatically wrong, exactly what a pragmatic, change party should be looking for.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Pulpstar said:

    Lennon's problem in the northwest will be the same as the greens/Lib Dem/Change UK ... dividing the two main blocks up as right/left- a right vote that is already taken up by a large portion (Brexit + Tories) is then further split between UKIP and Tommy Robinson.

    His ultimate job may well be to deny UKIP a seat in the Northwest.

    Thought he was from Luton? What's he doing in the northwest? Bloody immigrants, coming up here taking jobs from the locals...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    Mr. Sandpit, aye, I did actually consider adding that, but... didn't. I left it to you to work out that subtle qualification :p

    Err, because without that subtle qualification the answer is different! (Almost certainly Mercedes, being the only team of two race winners, one of whom has been doing so for more than a decade).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244

    It is one of the mysteries of political opinion that people are so opposed to inheritance tax, especially those that have few or no assets, complain about the status quo, but then would view increasing inheritance tax (or even merely closing down loopholes used by the seriously wealthy) as taxing the dead or double taxation.

    Enforcing and upping the rate of inheritance tax is the sort of policy Change UK could have adopted, being clearly distinctive, re-distributive and something that neither of the main parties are willing to touch for fear of alienating their voter base.

    People think it's unfair because "it's already been taxed once" during earning and accumulation when alive by the now deceased testator. They see it as double taxation.

    A fallacy since what is raised in IHT is inherently not raised in lifetime taxes.

    And ask those same people which do you prefer -

    (i) to pay 20% tax when alive and then 5% when dead? or
    (ii) to pay 25% tax when alive?

    They will answer (i).

    But that's people for you.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    kinabalu said:

    It is one of the mysteries of political opinion that people are so opposed to inheritance tax, especially those that have few or no assets, complain about the status quo, but then would view increasing inheritance tax (or even merely closing down loopholes used by the seriously wealthy) as taxing the dead or double taxation.

    Enforcing and upping the rate of inheritance tax is the sort of policy Change UK could have adopted, being clearly distinctive, re-distributive and something that neither of the main parties are willing to touch for fear of alienating their voter base.

    People think it's unfair because "it's already been taxed once" during earning and accumulation when alive by the now deceased testator. They see it as double taxation.

    A fallacy since what is raised in IHT is inherently not raised in lifetime taxes.

    And ask those same people which do you prefer -

    (i) to pay 20% tax when alive and then 5% when dead? or
    (ii) to pay 25% tax when alive?

    They will answer (i).

    But that's people for you.
    But that’s not the question. The question is do you want to pay 40% when alive, then 40% more when dead?
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    x
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    One could cite plenty of other examples such as the Tutsis, or American Liberians, or the Armenians in WWI.

    I don't have an issue with your "Jews as a powerful group" in the context you meant it.

    Just got me thinking (again) about the subject of antisemitism, which is of course topical.

    Another example. Lots of talk a few weeks ago on here about how the very powerful Irish Lobby in the US could torpedo our efforts to get a good trade deal with them if we were perceived to have stiffed the Republic on Brexit. Comments were not seen as in any way anti-Irish.

    Whereas talk of the Jewish Lobby, I venture, would meet with some disapproval.
    I can see why "Jewish Lobby" would be controversial in a way that "Israel Lobby" wouldn't.

    "William Safire wrote in 1993 that in the United Kingdom "Jewish lobby" is used as an "even more pejorative" term for "the 'Israel lobby'". Susan Jacobs of Manchester Metropolitan University writes that the phrase "Jewish lobby", when used "without mentioning other 'lobbies' or differentiating Jews who have different political positions on a number of questions, including Israel and Palestine", is a contemporary form of the fear of a Jewish conspiracy."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_lobby
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    edited April 2019

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Yet inheritance tax is probably the most progressive tax of all. And who, given the choice, would choose to pay tax when alive than when dead?

    Most people apparently.

    Pay up to 40 per cent tax on your hard earned pension while you are alive - fine.

    Place a tax on money or assets handed over as a gift to a relative or friend who never worked for it or earned it - even when said value of assets were never really earned by the bequeather (eg a house bought for a few grand now worth a million or more) - a national scandal and a tax on the dead.

    Only about 10 per cent of estates last time I looked were subject to inheritance tax. The poor and middle class seem to love paying more income tax and vat and council tax etc while they are alive so the rich can leave more to their sixty five year old kids when they die.

    But you are stealing our ‘family home’ they cry - yes the home you left 40 years ago!
    It is one of the mysteries of political opinion that people are so opposed to inheritance tax, especially those that have few or no assets, complain about the status quo, but then would view increasing inheritance tax (or even merely closing down loopholes used by the seriously wealthy) as taxing the dead or double taxation.

    Enforcing and upping the rate of inheritance tax is the sort of policy Change UK could have adopted, being clearly distinctive, re-distributive and something that neither of the main parties are willing to touch for fear of alienating their voter base.
    Given that their core demographic are the property-owning chattering classes of north and west London, that proposal would be unlikely to have a positive effect on their vote share.
    You might be surprised to find that many of the "metropolitan, chattering, liberal elite" are actually renters often with little capital. Some may be in line to inherit, but nearly all of them under 50 will realise how unfair life is on young people without capital wanting to work and live in the capital. If the money raised went to further increase the personal allowance it would attract those who can see the bigger picture.

    It would also give them an opportunity to argue against the status quo positions from both Tory and Labour, where the status quo is emphatically wrong, exactly what a pragmatic, change party should be looking for.
    Ask those who own property whether they’d prefer to hand it to their children or to the government?

    Ask the younger generation whether they would like to inherit from their parents to give them a chance of buying something in London, or whether they’d prefer to see their parents’ house taken by the State for the greater good of society?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244

    I think if one accurately describes a factual increased likelihood, that's fine. Also, 'devout' - if not necessarily 'Catholic' - implies a choice to obey those requirements.

    Jewishness also encompasses more than religion. It's harder to use the term "secular Catholic" than "secular Jew".

    Maybe, therefore, I shouldn't have included 'religion' alongside race, sexual orientation and hair colour, in as much as it's more a matter of choice than the others.

    Yes, religion does not quite sit there with the others. Well it does, but just a little apart.

    Any case, totally with you, most of this stuff is dodgy and runs the range from misleading generalization through lazy stereotyping to racism.

    Caveat Emptor.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Where are all the polls?

    Gone back to Poll-land.....
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,854
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    It is one of the mysteries of political opinion that people are so opposed to inheritance tax, especially those that have few or no assets, complain about the status quo, but then would view increasing inheritance tax (or even merely closing down loopholes used by the seriously wealthy) as taxing the dead or double taxation.

    Enforcing and upping the rate of inheritance tax is the sort of policy Change UK could have adopted, being clearly distinctive, re-distributive and something that neither of the main parties are willing to touch for fear of alienating their voter base.

    People think it's unfair because "it's already been taxed once" during earning and accumulation when alive by the now deceased testator. They see it as double taxation.

    A fallacy since what is raised in IHT is inherently not raised in lifetime taxes.

    And ask those same people which do you prefer -

    (i) to pay 20% tax when alive and then 5% when dead? or
    (ii) to pay 25% tax when alive?

    They will answer (i).

    But that's people for you.
    But that’s not the question. The question is do you want to pay 40% when alive, then 40% more when dead?
    The question should be:

    We need to raise an extra £1m for the next big of government spending. Should we take £1,000 out of 1,000 people earning £25,000 a year working 50 hours a week or should we take an extra £1m from 1 typically already wealthy person who inherits £2.5m?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    It is one of the mysteries of political opinion that people are so opposed to inheritance tax, especially those that have few or no assets, complain about the status quo, but then would view increasing inheritance tax (or even merely closing down loopholes used by the seriously wealthy) as taxing the dead or double taxation.

    Enforcing and upping the rate of inheritance tax is the sort of policy Change UK could have adopted, being clearly distinctive, re-distributive and something that neither of the main parties are willing to touch for fear of alienating their voter base.

    People think it's unfair because "it's already been taxed once" during earning and accumulation when alive by the now deceased testator. They see it as double taxation.

    A fallacy since what is raised in IHT is inherently not raised in lifetime taxes.

    And ask those same people which do you prefer -

    (i) to pay 20% tax when alive and then 5% when dead? or
    (ii) to pay 25% tax when alive?

    They will answer (i).

    But that's people for you.
    But that’s not the question. The question is do you want to pay 40% when alive, then 40% more when dead?
    Yes lol, fat chance of taxes replacing others. Will just add to them.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,913
    brendan16 said:

    Only about 10 per cent of estates last time I looked were subject to inheritance tax. The poor and middle class seem to love paying more income tax and vat and council tax etc while they are alive so the rich can leave more to their sixty five year old kids when they die.

    That would be a damn good way of pitching a much higher rate of inheritance tax, perhaps with a higher band, particulary if income tax allowances were adjusted to offset some of the increased take. We could have more tax, and hopefully share the nations wealth more fairly too.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Above, assuming the money isn't set up in a way to avoid inheritance tax.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244
    edited April 2019
    Sandpit said:

    But that’s not the question. The question is do you want to pay 40% when alive, then 40% more when dead?

    I was addressing (I hope successfully) the conceptual objection that IHT is inherently unfair because the money "has already been taxed."
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,854
    "Ask the younger generation whether they would like to inherit from their parents to give them a chance of buying something in London, or whether they’d prefer to see their parents’ house taken by the State for the greater good of society?"

    People who inherit are generally not the younger generations! Far more typically pensioners who already have plentiful assets.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Whatever happened to speaking to people on all sides?

    Daily Mail reporting the John Bercow has also turned down the same invitation, can’t imagine Her Majesty is too impressed with that.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Where are all the polls?

    Gone back to Poll-land.....
    Where have all the pollsters gone
    Gone to canvas every one
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    edited April 2019

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    It is one of the mysteries of political opinion that people are so opposed to inheritance tax, especially those that have few or no assets, complain about the status quo, but then would view increasing inheritance tax (or even merely closing down loopholes used by the seriously wealthy) as taxing the dead or double taxation.

    Enforcing and upping the rate of inheritance tax is the sort of policy Change UK could have adopted, being clearly distinctive, re-distributive and something that neither of the main parties are willing to touch for fear of alienating their voter base.

    People think it's unfair because "it's already been taxed once" during earning and accumulation when alive by the now deceased testator. They see it as double taxation.

    A fallacy since what is raised in IHT is inherently not raised in lifetime taxes.

    And ask those same people which do you prefer -

    (i) to pay 20% tax when alive and then 5% when dead? or
    (ii) to pay 25% tax when alive?

    They will answer (i).

    But that's people for you.
    But that’s not the question. The question is do you want to pay 40% when alive, then 40% more when dead?
    The question should be:

    We need to raise an extra £1m for the next big of government spending. Should we take £1,000 out of 1,000 people earning £25,000 a year working 50 hours a week or should we take an extra £1m from 1 typically already wealthy person who inherits £2.5m?
    In isolation that works just fine - but in aggregate, having a smaller number of people pay an increasing share of the tax burden results in those few changing their behaviour to avoid the taxes.

    Edit: also note that IT is levied on the estate of the deceased, not on an individual inheritance.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    A couple of weeks ago 2019 was odds-on favourite to be the year of the next election. It has been matched this afternoon at 3.6.

    I'd say there are excellent chances of it heading back towards evens in the coming weeks.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244

    I can see why "Jewish Lobby" would be controversial in a way that "Israel Lobby" wouldn't.

    "William Safire wrote in 1993 that in the United Kingdom "Jewish lobby" is used as an "even more pejorative" term for "the 'Israel lobby'". Susan Jacobs of Manchester Metropolitan University writes that the phrase "Jewish lobby", when used "without mentioning other 'lobbies' or differentiating Jews who have different political positions on a number of questions, including Israel and Palestine", is a contemporary form of the fear of a Jewish conspiracy."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_lobby

    Yes, a big difference between 'Jewish' and 'Israel'. Caveat, half the world's Jews live in Israel.

    And a big difference between 'Lobby' in the specific sense of a known and above board organization doing its thing and in the potentially rather more nebulous and sinister sense of a group working together in secret.

    This is why all of these cases really have to be taken individually on their own merits. Tedious, but it has to be done.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    New Thread

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Meeks, mildly surprised the odds have lengthened again.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Scott_P said:
    Corbyn has got some manhole covers to have a look at in Azerbaijan......
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    "Ask the younger generation whether they would like to inherit from their parents to give them a chance of buying something in London, or whether they’d prefer to see their parents’ house taken by the State for the greater good of society?"

    People who inherit are generally not the younger generations! Far more typically pensioners who already have plentiful assets.

    And we are not talking about confiscating estates - merely raising the tax from nothing (on most estates) to a little bit.

    It was widely believed in the 19th and early 20th centuries that inheritance of wealth stifled initiative and encouraged idleness - people had a duty to work and make their own way in the world and those who relied on unearned wealth had no incentive to engage in productive employment. Novels like Brideshead Revisited portrayed the rich as idle loafers whose lives consisted entirely of pleasure seeking.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,854
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    It is one of the mysteries of political opinion that people are so opposed to inheritance tax, especially those that have few or no assets, complain about the status quo, but then would view increasing inheritance tax (or even merely closing down loopholes used by the seriously wealthy) as taxing the dead or double taxation.

    Enforcing and upping the rate of inheritance tax is the sort of policy Change UK could have adopted, being clearly distinctive, re-distributive and something that neither of the main parties are willing to touch for fear of alienating their voter base.

    People think it's unfair because "it's already been taxed once" during earning and accumulation when alive by the now deceased testator. They see it as double taxation.

    A fallacy since what is raised in IHT is inherently not raised in lifetime taxes.

    And ask those same people which do you prefer -

    (i) to pay 20% tax when alive and then 5% when dead? or
    (ii) to pay 25% tax when alive?

    They will answer (i).

    But that's people for you.
    But that’s not the question. The question is do you want to pay 40% when alive, then 40% more when dead?
    The question should be:

    We need to raise an extra £1m for the next big of government spending. Should we take £1,000 out of 1,000 people earning £25,000 a year working 50 hours a week or should we take an extra £1m from 1 typically already wealthy person who inherits £2.5m?
    In isolation that works just fine - but in aggregate, having a smaller number of people pay an increasing share of the tax burden results in those few changing their behaviour to avoid the taxes.
    I can see your point if it were income tax, that it can change incentives and behaviour which would be bad for the economy. Avoiding inheritance tax could be made much difficult, especially property wealth, so I doubt there would be any significant behavioural impact if enforcement was increased and loopholes/legal incentives to minimise inheritance tax withdrawn.

    The changes in behaviour that benefit an economy will be those that create incentives for young people to work hard, get educated and skilled, build up capital and play a meaningful role in society. Having fewer and fewer people owning properties, with large property portfolios passed down within a small group of families is a terrible way to run a modern economy.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,801

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Which path would he (the other one) choose, then take the opposite. Old conundrum.

    Ah is it a real old chestnut? OK, sorry. I heard it for the first time the other day - on Midsomer Murders oddly.

    Still, glad I know it now, since if I ever find myself in that position ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReFhu8KYbmU
    Go for the Monty Hall Paradox if you really want your mind blown.
    Got asked that question in two of my Oxford maths interviews (ChristChurch & Pembroke). Luckily I'd read about it in the Racing Post sport section two weeks previously.
    My favorite is the "boy and girl problem", specifically what I like to call the 'Jason' variant.

    In Part 1, the question is:

    "Mr. Smith has two children. At least one of them is a boy. What is the probability that both children are boys?"

    And you have to reconcile your common sense, of 50%, with the correct answer, of 33%.

    Then in Part 2, the question is:

    Mr. Smith has two children. At least one of them is a boy. The boy's name is Jason. What is the probability that both children are boys?

    And you have to reconcile your answer of 33% with the fact the probability is now 49.99% or so....
    That is awesome, thanks for sharing. Part 1 is easy, part 2 is beautiful.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,133

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Which path would he (the other one) choose, then take the opposite. Old conundrum.

    Ah is it a real old chestnut? OK, sorry. I heard it for the first time the other day - on Midsomer Murders oddly.

    Still, glad I know it now, since if I ever find myself in that position ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReFhu8KYbmU
    Go for the Monty Hall Paradox if you really want your mind blown.
    Got asked that question in two of my Oxford maths interviews (ChristChurch & Pembroke). Luckily I'd read about it in the Racing Post sport section two weeks previously.
    My favorite is the "boy and girl problem", specifically what I like to call the 'Jason' variant.

    In Part 1, the question is:

    "Mr. Smith has two children. At least one of them is a boy. What is the probability that both children are boys?"

    And you have to reconcile your common sense, of 50%, with the correct answer, of 33%.....
    Thinks.

    Thinks.

    Ah.

    There are three possible outcomes:
    1: Child a is a boy and child b is a girl
    2: Child a is a girl and child b is a boy
    3: Child a is a boy and child b is a boy
    If we assume all three outcomes are equally likely, then outcome 3 has a probability of 33%.

    Did I get it right?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244
    Yes and No.
This discussion has been closed.