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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    To be fair, the rushed timescales of an unexpected election does make for a candidate unsuitability crisis for nearly every party.

    Until we get a bit more tolerant of past social media anyway...
    The past social media stuff. I always try to take it as a whole ie was it one or two tweets or was this week in week out stuff and also how recent and since then do they appear to still hold the same views.

    Jarad o'mara for instance. The problem for me wasnt he made some bad tweets years ago, it was that his real life actions (including very recently) showed a similar outlook. His social media posts just added weight to peoples complaints about their in person interactions.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744

    Mayor Pete is in potential big trouble now. Bernie is advocating votes for terrorists (Jezza up your game son). Media have gone cold on no policies Beto.

    Could Creepy Uncle Joe just get it as he is the most sensible sounding credible of all of them?

    Could Clinton be made nominee by a contested convention? Is that possible under the complex rules?
    One rule to remember about US party conventions: the convention floor itself is sovereign. In other words, no matter what the complex rules elsewhere, if there develops a will to do something, there is a way to do it.

    However, while it could, it won't.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    "And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a COON
    Who let all of this riffraff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got SPOTS
    If I had my way I'D HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT!"

    Excerpts from Farage's forthcoming rally speech
    I think band members change the words these days iirc?

    Reminds me of the famous Fawlty Towers episode, the Fire Drill or Germans if you prefer. It's the only one I now cringe at and not because of Basil, but the Major.

    Bizarrely, the Daily Telegraph (for I think it was they) recently claimed that our love for Fawlty meant we still support Brexit.

    Stupid sods.

    It was damned good comedy for all kinds of reasons and in case they'd forgotten it, included one episode with a broadside of Americans and another on psychiatrists. All, of course, deliciously intended to show up Basil's own bombast.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,851
    "Those, like you, who think that the new Con leader wouldn't be PM need to answer two questions:

    1. Who would be appointed PM in that situation?
    2. How a parliamentary consensus would come about among many disparate and competing parties, to consolidate 320+ MPs around support for the person identified in (1), in sufficient time and with sufficient solidity to prompt the Queen to invite them, and not the new Con leader, to become PM?"

    1. Corbyn, Clarke, Letwin, Boles, Cooper, Benn seem most likely in your scenario.
    2. Any candidate bar Corbyn in this scenario would have to agree to be a caretaker and call a general election within a year, probably less, with a mandate only to extend not decide on the Brexit path. They would be selected by and need the support of the core group who took over parliament in March, and informally lobby MPs across the house for support vs a Tory no dealer.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT:

    What does it matter who leads the Conservative Party? Nothing changes:

    1. Parliament will not allow no deal
    2. Parliament will not pass a deal except perhaps a customs union
    3. Any Tory leader who proposes a customs union will no longer be Tory leader
    4. The only way to break the impasse is a General Election. Which Tory/CHUK MPs will not vote for

    Ergo, continued stalemate until the Fixed Term Parliaments Act forces a general election in summer 2022. Our MEPs will serve out their full term...

    Or until 31 October when the French say: "Non".
    Why do you think the French would cause no deal? It is clearly bad for them and they already have struggles of their own? Do you actually think it is going to happen, or expressing concern that it might and no deal happens by accident?
    I think the risk of the EU getting fed up with continued faffing about from Britain with no sign of any breakthrough, either in getting the WA passed or some other political development, is much higher than people are assuming. It may also depend on what is happening within the European Parliament and whether other EU countries feel that they can better manage the risks of no deal than us and that the risks of continuing in this limbo state are worse than the risks of no deal. We are assuming - once again - that Britain is more important to the EU than it is, especially if it continues to behave in the way it has been, seemingly unable either to make up its mind or to find a way to make up its mind.

    And the risk of an accidental no deal is probably also higher than is being assumed.

    It could well be that the EU tries to force our hand by saying no to a further extension and tells us either to leave with no deal or revoke, assuming that we will choose the latter, and being wrong about that.

    Plus I think that there is a non-negligible risk of the French just wanting us out because, however damaging it may be to France in the short-term, they think that Britain out of the EU will give them considerable competitive advantages in both the short and long-terms.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    Streeter said:

    FPT

    Streeter said:

    Mr. Fire, those in favour of man-made global warming as a theory also predicted an end to snow in the UK, a few years before we had the worst winter in a century. And then another very bad winter the year after. It doesn't persuade me of their predictive prowess.

    I’ll-informed bloke off internet muddles up weather and climate. Again.
    What's the difference, well-informed bloke off t'internet?
    What’s the weather this afternoon? - a sensible question.

    What’s the climate this afternoon? - not a sensible question.
    Sensible when chattin' about the political climate!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    HYUFD said:
    Yay, he's going to get expelled from the Tory Party.
    Haven't you voted LibDem in the past?
    As part of a vote swap with a Lib Dem which helped the Tories gain a seat from Labour.

    Both of us were in seats where our parties weren't going to win so we utilised our votes to help our parties for the best.
    When you are sat there with a bright light in your face and Steve Baker cracking his knuckles, do you really think that mitigation is going to keep you safe?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2019
    "Oh and one word of advice. If you're going to grope a girl have the gallantry to stay in the room with her while you're doing it."
    https://twitter.com/FawltyTowersFan/status/1093419252483325952

    :D

    Useful advice for Joe Biden?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    I have to admit, the best due diligence is doing doing credit searches on your potential employees, tells you so much.
    That is by no means enough. Believe me. You need to follow up every single thing.

    Trouble is most employers just view the process as collecting information. They forget to read the damn stuff.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,246
    Cyclefree said:

    glw said:

    I'm fairly sure that I've never said anything racist, sexist, homophobic, or anti-Semitic on Twitter. I had no idea I was so well qualified to be an MEP.

    I have a feeling in 10 years the limited pool of talent that want to become an elected official will be tiny after we disqualify all those who have made a dodgy tweet or two in their lifetime.

    Yes. It will be down to me, my brother and my husband. In 10 years time PMQs could end up being like a version of Gardeners' Question Time! Still, you could all do worse. :)
    Never tweeted, so I could be leader of the opposition.


    Asking searching questions about chocolate.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    umm, I think TSE posted this as a general interest story. The suggestion that she is standing in the euro elections is a frivolous one.

    I was responding to the points raised about some potential CUK MEPs not having been vetted well enough.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744

    "Those, like you, who think that the new Con leader wouldn't be PM need to answer two questions:

    1. Who would be appointed PM in that situation?
    2. How a parliamentary consensus would come about among many disparate and competing parties, to consolidate 320+ MPs around support for the person identified in (1), in sufficient time and with sufficient solidity to prompt the Queen to invite them, and not the new Con leader, to become PM?"

    1. Corbyn, Clarke, Letwin, Boles, Cooper, Benn seem most likely in your scenario.
    2. Any candidate bar Corbyn in this scenario would have to agree to be a caretaker and call a general election within a year, probably less, with a mandate only to extend not decide on the Brexit path. They would be selected by and need the support of the core group who took over parliament in March, and informally lobby MPs across the house for support vs a Tory no dealer.

    That seems a little fanciful, if I may say so.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    Streeter said:

    FPT

    Streeter said:

    Mr. Fire, those in favour of man-made global warming as a theory also predicted an end to snow in the UK, a few years before we had the worst winter in a century. And then another very bad winter the year after. It doesn't persuade me of their predictive prowess.

    I’ll-informed bloke off internet muddles up weather and climate. Again.
    What's the difference, well-informed bloke off t'internet?
    What’s the weather this afternoon? - a sensible question.

    What’s the climate this afternoon? - not a sensible question.
    Sensible when chattin' about the political climate!
    Ah yes, the winds of change.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    To be fair, the rushed timescales of an unexpected election does make for a candidate unsuitability crisis for nearly every party.

    Until we get a bit more tolerant of past social media anyway...
    The past social media stuff. I always try to take it as a whole ie was it one or two tweets or was this week in week out stuff and also how recent and since then do they appear to still hold the same views.

    Jarad o'mara for instance. The problem for me wasnt he made some bad tweets years ago, it was that his real life actions (including very recently) showed a similar outlook. His social media posts just added weight to peoples complaints about their in person interactions.
    Yes, that is fair. An off colour one off "joke" is one thing, but when it is a systematic pattern and also in fleshworld it is different.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    I have to admit, the best due diligence is doing doing credit searches on your potential employees, tells you so much.
    That is by no means enough. Believe me. You need to follow up every single thing.

    Trouble is most employers just view the process as collecting information. They forget to read the damn stuff.
    Yup. Reading the credit searches was the highlight of my job.

    I was raised by a mother who views debt, apart from a mortgage, as the eighth deadliest sin.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    glw said:

    I'm fairly sure that I've never said anything racist, sexist, homophobic, or anti-Semitic on Twitter. I had no idea I was so well qualified to be an MEP.

    I have a feeling in 10 years the limited pool of talent that want to become an elected official will be tiny after we disqualify all those who have made a dodgy tweet or two in their lifetime.

    Yes. It will be down to me, my brother and my husband. In 10 years time PMQs could end up being like a version of Gardeners' Question Time! Still, you could all do worse. :)
    Never tweeted, so I could be leader of the opposition.


    Asking searching questions about chocolate.
    I somehow managed to avoid "Labour candidate advocates extinction of humankind" headlines. I guess if I was standing for the European Parliament there might be a bit more of a focus on my online presence. Best I'm not standing!
  • HYUFD said:
    Yay, he's going to get expelled from the Tory Party.
    Haven't you voted LibDem in the past?
    As part of a vote swap with a Lib Dem which helped the Tories gain a seat from Labour.

    Both of us were in seats where our parties weren't going to win so we utilised our votes to help our parties for the best.
    When you are sat there with a bright light in your face and Steve Baker cracking his knuckles, do you really think that mitigation is going to keep you safe?
    Yes. I’m from Yorkshire, Steve Baker doesn’t scare me.

    Only a man with erectile dysfunction calls themselves a hard man.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,851
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT:

    What does it matter who leads the Conservative Party? Nothing changes:

    1. Parliament will not allow no deal
    2. Parliament will not pass a deal except perhaps a customs union
    3. Any Tory leader who proposes a customs union will no longer be Tory leader
    4. The only way to break the impasse is a General Election. Which Tory/CHUK MPs will not vote for

    Ergo, continued stalemate until the Fixed Term Parliaments Act forces a general election in summer 2022. Our MEPs will serve out their full term...

    Or until 31 October when the French say: "Non".
    Why do you think the French would cause no deal? It is clearly bad for them and they already have struggles of their own? Do you actually think it is going to happen, or expressing concern that it might and no deal happens by accident?
    I think the risk of the EU getting fed up with continued faffing about from Britain with no sign of any breakthrough, either in getting the WA passed or some other political development, is much higher than people are assuming. It may also depend on what is happening within the European Parliament and whether other EU countries feel that they can better manage the risks of no deal than us and that the risks of continuing in this limbo state are worse than the risks of no deal. We are assuming - once again - that Britain is more important to the EU than it is, especially if it continues to behave in the way it has been, seemingly unable either to make up its mind or to find a way to make up its mind.

    And the risk of an accidental no deal is probably also higher than is being assumed.

    It could well be that the EU tries to force our hand by saying no to a further extension and tells us either to leave with no deal or revoke, assuming that we will choose the latter, and being wrong about that.

    Plus I think that there is a non-negligible risk of the French just wanting us out because, however damaging it may be to France in the short-term, they think that Britain out of the EU will give them considerable competitive advantages in both the short and long-terms.
    Whilst I agree the EU are fed up, their actions so far have all been rational rather than emotional, I don't see this changing. I think they are relatively content with delay and further extension, this is costing them very little economically or politically.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    BBC News - MP Johnny Mercer's salary funded by failed bond scheme marketing agent

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-47884273

    Always said Johnny Mercer had really poor judgment.
    [Sunil whistles innocently]


    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 73,455
    November 2017 edited November 2017

    I've always said Johnny Mercer is awesome, more proof:

    "Theresa May is jeopardising the 'integrity and credibility' of our party, senior MP says in blistering attack.

    "Johnny Mercer has been to war and can recognise chaos when he sees it. The Conservative MP, tipped as a future leader, believes a state of ‘anarchy’ is in danger of engulfing his party.

    "In an interview with the Telegraph today, the former Army captain, who served with distinction in Afghanistan, fires a warning shot in Theresa May’s direction that she needs to urgently get a grip on a ‘depressing’ series of events. If she doesn’t, he says, the nation will be wrecked by the “existential threat’ posed by the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street and John McDonnell living next door.

    "Mr Mercer’s comments will fuel the crisis overwhelming Mrs May. The disastrous election, the resignation within a week of two Cabinet ministers and the ongoing Westminster sex scandal has led Mr Mercer to conclude that Mrs May’s premiership has reached a ‘critical point’. "

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12/theresa-may-jeopardising-integrity-credibility-party-senior/


    http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/post/quote/5651/Comment_1770563
    Low blow using old posts against people, some of us are very vulnerable!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    glw said:

    I'm fairly sure that I've never said anything racist, sexist, homophobic, or anti-Semitic on Twitter. I had no idea I was so well qualified to be an MEP.

    But if you were on Twitter?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yay, he's going to get expelled from the Tory Party.
    Along with over half the membership and almost half the councillors?
    If someone publicly endorses an alternative party they have no choice, clearly with most it is not so public.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340


    So who do you think will be called to form a government when May formally resigns then?

    A Con leader who is committed to leaving on Oct 31 with or without a deal - though the likely policy on election would be to renegotiate the WA, not to embrace No Deal outright - will almost certainly be appointed PM. The DUP will go along with that, as will Con MPs. For the time being, that'd be enough. Labour might well table a VoNC immediately but I'd expect the new PM to survive that while (doomed) attempts to renegotiate took place.

    In any case, suppose the leadership election result is announced mid-Sept. The Commons won't sit again until after the Con conference, by which time it's far too late to form a different government before Oct 31 other than from the existing House, which means TIG (and virtually everyone else outside the Conservatives) having to support Corbyn.

    No Deal in October remains quite a likely outcome.

    Theresa May stays in harness until a reasonably sure replacement is found. No obvious replacement, no resignation (cf Gordon Brown in 2010). It is an irony that, having long outstayed her usefulness in Number 10, her last duty might be to stay in office.
    Unlike Labour's processes, which certainly kept Brown in power in 2008-10 (and, subsequently, Corbyn in 2016), there are various mechanisms that can eject a Tory leader who has lost the confidence of his or her Party and/or MPs. Also unlike Labour's rules, they don't require an alternative leader to be identified in advance.
    As party leader, yes. But the Prime Ministership is not theirs to gift.
    Those, like you, who think that the new Con leader wouldn't be PM need to answer two questions:

    1. Who would be appointed PM in that situation?
    2. How a parliamentary consensus would come about among many disparate and competing parties, to consolidate 320+ MPs around support for the person identified in (1), in sufficient time and with sufficient solidity to prompt the Queen to invite them, and not the new Con leader, to become PM?
    1) Theresa May would remain Prime Minister until a clear replacement emerged. It would be her duty not to resign in those circumstances.

    2) There would then be a period of horsetrading. If the new Conservative leader transparently did not command a majority (a racing certainty for a no-dealer), they would have no priority. I’d see as most likely a one item government to be formed under a safe and respected elder statesman - very possibly Ken Clarke - or just possibly Philip Hammond. But it would be very volatile and several other possible governments would also be in the mix.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    kle4 said:



    BBC News - MP Johnny Mercer's salary funded by failed bond scheme marketing agent

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-47884273

    Always said Johnny Mercer had really poor judgment.
    [Sunil whistles innocently]


    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 73,455
    November 2017 edited November 2017

    I've always said Johnny Mercer is awesome, more proof:

    "Theresa May is jeopardising the 'integrity and credibility' of our party, senior MP says in blistering attack.

    "Johnny Mercer has been to war and can recognise chaos when he sees it. The Conservative MP, tipped as a future leader, believes a state of ‘anarchy’ is in danger of engulfing his party.

    "In an interview with the Telegraph today, the former Army captain, who served with distinction in Afghanistan, fires a warning shot in Theresa May’s direction that she needs to urgently get a grip on a ‘depressing’ series of events. If she doesn’t, he says, the nation will be wrecked by the “existential threat’ posed by the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street and John McDonnell living next door.

    "Mr Mercer’s comments will fuel the crisis overwhelming Mrs May. The disastrous election, the resignation within a week of two Cabinet ministers and the ongoing Westminster sex scandal has led Mr Mercer to conclude that Mrs May’s premiership has reached a ‘critical point’. "

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12/theresa-may-jeopardising-integrity-credibility-party-senior/


    http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/post/quote/5651/Comment_1770563
    Low blow using old posts against people, some of us are very vulnerable!
    Told you I was whistling innocently!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,851

    "Those, like you, who think that the new Con leader wouldn't be PM need to answer two questions:

    1. Who would be appointed PM in that situation?
    2. How a parliamentary consensus would come about among many disparate and competing parties, to consolidate 320+ MPs around support for the person identified in (1), in sufficient time and with sufficient solidity to prompt the Queen to invite them, and not the new Con leader, to become PM?"

    1. Corbyn, Clarke, Letwin, Boles, Cooper, Benn seem most likely in your scenario.
    2. Any candidate bar Corbyn in this scenario would have to agree to be a caretaker and call a general election within a year, probably less, with a mandate only to extend not decide on the Brexit path. They would be selected by and need the support of the core group who took over parliament in March, and informally lobby MPs across the house for support vs a Tory no dealer.

    That seems a little fanciful, if I may say so.
    In December it would have been extremely fanciful to imagine Letwin installing himself as the "jobbing prime minister". If (and only if) it is the only way to stop no-deal one of that group will do it more formally next time and command the confidence of the house. They will pick other alternative actions first so I agree it is unlikely but if that is the only way forward it would happen.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yay, he's going to get expelled from the Tory Party.
    Along with over half the membership and almost half the councillors?
    So be it.

    Voting for another party is high treason if you're a Tory MP/councillor/activist.

    Normally you're expert in telling people they aren't Tories, so I'd assume you'd be in favour of these expulsions.
    HYUFD is a closet Kipper.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383

    "And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a COON
    Who let all of this riffraff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got SPOTS
    If I had my way I'D HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT!"

    Excerpts from Farage's forthcoming rally speech
    Is that Philip Larkin?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Tory MP Chris Davies will become the third MP to face a recall petition after Bercow initiated the process today.

    Even more squeaky bum time for the Cons numbers if this goes to a by-election

    https://order-order.com/2019/04/24/bercow-initiates-recall-petition-tory-mp-chris-davies/
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yay, he's going to get expelled from the Tory Party.
    Along with over half the membership and almost half the councillors?
    So be it.

    Voting for another party is high treason if you're a Tory MP/councillor/activist.

    Normally you're expert in telling people they aren't Tories, so I'd assume you'd be in favour of these expulsions.
    HYUFD is a closet Kipper.
    Remove closet to be accurate
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383

    viewcode said:

    The top ChUK candidate in Scottish list has resigned because of some things he tweeted

    http://twitter.com/johnjohnstonmi/status/1121000852603527168

    What were the series of offensive tweets? Did it involve "The Topping On The Foodstuff Of Which We Do Not Speak"?
    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1121006003586203648?s=21
    Initially I thought that was a quote from Sargon or Count Dankula.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yay, he's going to get expelled from the Tory Party.
    Along with over half the membership and almost half the councillors?
    So be it.

    Voting for another party is high treason if you're a Tory MP/councillor/activist.

    Normally you're expert in telling people they aren't Tories, so I'd assume you'd be in favour of these expulsions.
    HYUFD is a closet Kipper.
    Remove closet to be accurate
    And yet, to be fair, more members of the Tories probably back his positions.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Streeter said:

    What’s the weather this afternoon? - a sensible question.

    What’s the climate this afternoon? - not a sensible question.

    And also, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows but you DO need a good understanding of physics and chemistry and biology and mathematics, plus a sophisticated modelling algorithm and lashings of computer power, in order to opine with any authority on how the climate is likely to change over time, the reasons for that, and what might feasibly be done about it. Well, unless you're Nigel Lawson or Peter Alliss.
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yay, he's going to get expelled from the Tory Party.
    Along with over half the membership and almost half the councillors?
    So be it.

    Voting for another party is high treason if you're a Tory MP/councillor/activist.

    Normally you're expert in telling people they aren't Tories, so I'd assume you'd be in favour of these expulsions.
    HYUFD is a closet Kipper.
    Remove closet to be accurate
    And yet, to be fair, more members of the Tories probably back his positions.
    Members yes but the wider conservative voters no
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    viewcode said:

    The top ChUK candidate in Scottish list has resigned because of some things he tweeted

    http://twitter.com/johnjohnstonmi/status/1121000852603527168

    What were the series of offensive tweets? Did it involve "The Topping On The Foodstuff Of Which We Do Not Speak"?
    Pineapple pizza.

    There. I’ve said it. Have I summoned it?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    The top ChUK candidate in Scottish list has resigned because of some things he tweeted

    http://twitter.com/johnjohnstonmi/status/1121000852603527168

    What were the series of offensive tweets? Did it involve "The Topping On The Foodstuff Of Which We Do Not Speak"?
    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1121006003586203648?s=21
    Initially I thought that was a quote from Sargon or Count Dankula.
    There would be a lot more condemnation of it on here if it were
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Sean_F said:

    "And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a COON
    Who let all of this riffraff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got SPOTS
    If I had my way I'D HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT!"

    Excerpts from Farage's forthcoming rally speech
    Is that Philip Larkin?

    The character of Pink in The Wall by Roger Waters/Pink Floyd
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383
    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    "And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a COON
    Who let all of this riffraff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got SPOTS
    If I had my way I'D HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT!"

    Excerpts from Farage's forthcoming rally speech
    Is that Philip Larkin?

    The character of Pink in The Wall by Roger Waters/Pink Floyd
    I see. I thought it was Philip Larkin's poem about winning a Conservative majority, which begins with the verse:-

    "Prison for strikers,
    Bring back the cat,
    Throw out the ni**ers,
    How about that?"

    Nor was Larkin joking.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,871
    The Dems need to winnow down this field ASAP. At the moment even a debate is going to turn into a farce. The long and increasingly bitter battle with Sanders did Clinton no good whatsoever. The Dems cannot risk a repeat.

    Beating an incumbent President is hard. Beating one as reckless as Trump is going to be even harder. I doubt a sitting President has put as much pressure on the Fed since FDR in the early 30s and for far less reason. His constant pressure for lower interest rates and looser money will have some effect as will the reckless deficit spending. Add a likely trade deal with China and the Dems need to be focused and united. At the moment they look the exact opposite.
  • JackJackJackJack Posts: 98
    Sean_F said:

    "And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a COON
    Who let all of this riffraff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got SPOTS
    If I had my way I'D HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT!"

    Excerpts from Farage's forthcoming rally speech
    Is that Philip Larkin?
    Apparently bigotry from individual rally attendees mean the Brexit Party is awful, but Anti-Semitism at the highest levels of the Labour Party should not impugn them.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744

    Theresa May stays in harness until a reasonably sure replacement is found. No obvious replacement, no resignation (cf Gordon Brown in 2010). It is an irony that, having long outstayed her usefulness in Number 10, her last duty might be to stay in office.

    Unlike Labour's processes, which certainly kept Brown in power in 2008-10 (and, subsequently, Corbyn in 2016), there are various mechanisms that can eject a Tory leader who has lost the confidence of his or her Party and/or MPs. Also unlike Labour's rules, they don't require an alternative leader to be identified in advance.
    As party leader, yes. But the Prime Ministership is not theirs to gift.
    Those, like you, who think that the new Con leader wouldn't be PM need to answer two questions:

    1. Who would be appointed PM in that situation?
    2. How a parliamentary consensus would come about among many disparate and competing parties, to consolidate 320+ MPs around support for the person identified in (1), in sufficient time and with sufficient solidity to prompt the Queen to invite them, and not the new Con leader, to become PM?
    1) Theresa May would remain Prime Minister until a clear replacement emerged. It would be her duty not to resign in those circumstances.

    2) There would then be a period of horsetrading. If the new Conservative leader transparently did not command a majority (a racing certainty for a no-dealer), they would have no priority. I’d see as most likely a one item government to be formed under a safe and respected elder statesman - very possibly Ken Clarke - or just possibly Philip Hammond. But it would be very volatile and several other possible governments would also be in the mix.
    I'm sorry but this is fantasy. Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM. Theresa May won't stay on once the Tory leadership election result is announced, she will resign in the (correct) assumption that the Palace will act in accordance with precedent and invite her successor as Con leader to become PM. The only possible exception to that is if it's already clear that there is a majority supporting an alternative PM - which as your post makes clear, there wouldn't be.

    The Palace would want to stay above politics and their position would be that it would be for the Commons to demonstrate that it had no confidence in the new PM, given that it did have confidence in the previous Con leader.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    edited April 2019

    Pineapple pizza.

    There. I’ve said it. Have I summoned it?

    I actually had pizza for dinner last night (first time in ages) and I must admit I did not even consider putting pineapple on it. It does seem an odd thing to do.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,246
    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    "And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a COON
    Who let all of this riffraff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got SPOTS
    If I had my way I'D HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT!"

    Excerpts from Farage's forthcoming rally speech
    Is that Philip Larkin?

    The character of Pink in The Wall by Roger Waters/Pink Floyd
    Have a cigar.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    "And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a COON
    Who let all of this riffraff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got SPOTS
    If I had my way I'D HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT!"

    Excerpts from Farage's forthcoming rally speech
    Is that Philip Larkin?

    The character of Pink in The Wall by Roger Waters/Pink Floyd
    Which track was that?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yay, he's going to get expelled from the Tory Party.
    Along with over half the membership and almost half the councillors?

    Yes. That way those who remain in the party are Tories who actually vote Tory. Or is voting Tory now some sort of optional extra for Tory party members?
    Funnily enough as far as I can see from the Tory Party rule book, voting for another party is not grounds for being thrown out. Only Standing against the Tory party is grounds for that. Although I suppose they could use the catch-all of 'bringing the party into disrepute'. But on those grounds they might as well expel May as well.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited April 2019

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    "And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a COON
    Who let all of this riffraff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got SPOTS
    If I had my way I'D HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT!"

    Excerpts from Farage's forthcoming rally speech
    Is that Philip Larkin?

    The character of Pink in The Wall by Roger Waters/Pink Floyd
    Which track was that?
    Erm.... I can’t remember!

    Looked it up, ‘In the flesh’
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    edited April 2019

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yay, he's going to get expelled from the Tory Party.
    Along with over half the membership and almost half the councillors?

    Yes. That way those who remain in the party are Tories who actually vote Tory. Or is voting Tory now some sort of optional extra for Tory party members?
    Funnily enough as far as I can see from the Tory Party rule book, voting for another party is not grounds for being thrown out. Only Standing against the Tory party is grounds for that. Although I suppose they could use the catch-all of 'bringing the party into disrepute'. But on those grounds they might as well expel May as well.
    The rule book is here:

    https://www.politicalpartydb.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/UK_CONSERVATIVE_PARTY_CONSTITUTION_2009.pdf
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    "And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a COON
    Who let all of this riffraff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got SPOTS
    If I had my way I'D HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT!"

    Excerpts from Farage's forthcoming rally speech
    Is that Philip Larkin?

    The character of Pink in The Wall by Roger Waters/Pink Floyd
    Which track was that?
    If that's Isam's quote it's from In the Flesh on The Wall album.

    An album beautifully summarised by David Gilmour as 'a bit of a whinge.'
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    "And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a COON
    Who let all of this riffraff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got SPOTS
    If I had my way I'D HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT!"

    Excerpts from Farage's forthcoming rally speech
    Is that Philip Larkin?

    The character of Pink in The Wall by Roger Waters/Pink Floyd
    Which track was that?
    In the Flesh
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,851
    "I'm sorry but this is fantasy. Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM. Theresa May won't stay on once the Tory leadership election result is announced, she will resign in the (correct) assumption that the Palace will act in accordance with precedent and invite her successor as Con leader to become PM. The only possible exception to that is if it's already clear that there is a majority supporting an alternative PM - which as your post makes clear, there wouldn't be.

    The Palace would want to stay above politics and their position would be that it would be for the Commons to demonstrate that it had no confidence in the new PM, given that it did have confidence in the previous Con leader."

    Boris is favourite, lets say he wins and promises no deal. I would expect around a dozen tory MPs to resign the whip (numerous journalists have said cabinet ministers are included in that group), if that happened do you still think the Queen will be asked to make someone PM who will lose an immediate confidence vote?

    Maybe the pro European, anti Boris MPs would bottle it and stay, but that does not seem the current mood of parliament, nor are they likely to feel at all welcome in that Conservative party.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    viewcode said:

    The top ChUK candidate in Scottish list has resigned because of some things he tweeted

    http://twitter.com/johnjohnstonmi/status/1121000852603527168

    What were the series of offensive tweets? Did it involve "The Topping On The Foodstuff Of Which We Do Not Speak"?
    Pineapple pizza.

    There. I’ve said it. Have I summoned it?

    Only if you say it three times.....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    "And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a COON
    Who let all of this riffraff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint, and that one's got SPOTS
    If I had my way I'D HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT!"

    Excerpts from Farage's forthcoming rally speech
    Is that Philip Larkin?

    The character of Pink in The Wall by Roger Waters/Pink Floyd
    Which track was that?
    Erm.... I can’t remember!

    Looked it up, ‘In the flesh’
    Thanks!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited April 2019

    HYUFD said:
    Yay, he's going to get expelled from the Tory Party.
    Haven't you voted LibDem in the past?
    As part of a vote swap with a Lib Dem which helped the Tories gain a seat from Labour.

    Both of us were in seats where our parties weren't going to win so we utilised our votes to help our parties for the best.
    When you are sat there with a bright light in your face and Steve Baker cracking his knuckles, do you really think that mitigation is going to keep you safe?
    Yes. I’m from Yorkshire, Steve Baker doesn’t scare me.

    Only a man with erectile dysfunction calls themselves a hard man.
    Tut Tut singular with plural... shocking !
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    umm, I think TSE posted this as a general interest story. The suggestion that she is standing in the euro elections is a frivolous one.

    I was responding to the points raised about some potential CUK MEPs not having been vetted well enough.
    The role of Guv of the Bank of England has gone out to headhunters.

    Word is they would like a woman.

    CV up to date?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    So if the UK ends up remaining, she's buggered.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Quite a lot of seismic political tremors today. So many that a potential by-election in Brecon & Radnorshire is in danger of slipping through the net.

    VONC in May's Gov't is still looming on the horizon.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,851

    So if the UK ends up remaining, she's buggered.
    How long would the Scottish independence negotiations take.....can't see them going any more smoothly than Brexit.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340



    Unlike Labour's processes, which certainly kept Brown in power in 2008-10 (and, subsequently, Corbyn in 2016), there are various mechanisms that can eject a Tory leader who has lost the confidence of his or her Party and/or MPs. Also unlike Labour's rules, they don't require an alternative leader to be identified in advance.

    As party leader, yes. But the Prime Ministership is not theirs to gift.
    Those, like you, who think that the new Con leader wouldn't be PM need to answer two questions:

    1. Who would be appointed PM in that situation?
    2. How a parliamentary consensus would come about among many disparate and competing parties, to consolidate 320+ MPs around support for the person identified in (1), in sufficient time and with sufficient solidity to prompt the Queen to invite them, and not the new Con leader, to become PM?
    1) Theresa May would remain Prime Minister until a clear replacement emerged. It would be her duty not to resign in those circumstances.

    2) There would then be a period of horsetrading. If the new Conservative leader transparently did not command a majority (a racing certainty for a no-dealer), they would have no priority. I’d see as most likely a one item government to be formed under a safe and respected elder statesman - very possibly Ken Clarke - or just possibly Philip Hammond. But it would be very volatile and several other possible governments would also be in the mix.
    I'm sorry but this is fantasy. Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM. Theresa May won't stay on once the Tory leadership election result is announced, she will resign in the (correct) assumption that the Palace will act in accordance with precedent and invite her successor as Con leader to become PM. The only possible exception to that is if it's already clear that there is a majority supporting an alternative PM - which as your post makes clear, there wouldn't be.

    The Palace would want to stay above politics and their position would be that it would be for the Commons to demonstrate that it had no confidence in the new PM, given that it did have confidence in the previous Con leader.
    The Conservatives do not have a right to replace Prime Ministers. If it were apparent that a Conservative leader would not command the confidence of Parliament (and if it were a no-dealer it would be), he would not be called. I am at a loss to understand why you think he would be.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.

    The safest option is to go with the new governing party leader, which kicks the question of confidence to the Commons, which is where the Palace would say it belongs.

    The only exception to this is if the Commons has already - somehow - found a majority for either the LotO or a third candidate. In reality, I don't see any possibility of either of these scenarios. Corbyn wouldn't accept any other PM, should the ball land outside the Tories' grasp, and I don't see TIG or the DUP or (ex-)Con rebels putting Corbyn into No 10.

    So the likely outcome would be a VoNC in the new PM, no alternative govt being formed (which would validate the Palace's decision to not actively oust the sitting party), and a general election. However, by the time the election could be held, October 31 would have come and gone.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yay, he's going to get expelled from the Tory Party.
    Along with over half the membership and almost half the councillors?
    Only those who reveal their intentions in public!
  • Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.

    The safest option is to go with the new governing party leader, which kicks the question of confidence to the Commons, which is where the Palace would say it belongs.

    The only exception to this is if the Commons has already - somehow - found a majority for either the LotO or a third candidate. In reality, I don't see any possibility of either of these scenarios. Corbyn wouldn't accept any other PM, should the ball land outside the Tories' grasp, and I don't see TIG or the DUP or (ex-)Con rebels putting Corbyn into No 10.

    So the likely outcome would be a VoNC in the new PM, no alternative govt being formed (which would validate the Palace's decision to not actively oust the sitting party), and a general election. However, by the time the election could be held, October 31 would have come and gone.
    In your scenario what would happen if say just before the result of the contest to succeed May 20 Tory MPs publicly announced they would resign the whip if Boris or a No Dealer were to win.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.
    Why? The existing PM would remain until someone else emerges with the confidence of the HoC, or until the HoC decides to call an election or the parliamentary term expires. Impasses can continue for a long time.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    edited April 2019
    JackJack said:

    Apparently bigotry from individual rally attendees mean the Brexit Party is awful, but Anti-Semitism at the highest levels of the Labour Party should not impugn them.

    Yes, a riddle of the first order. Then again, the way that certain people are intensely relaxed about racism except when it manifests as antisemitism in the Labour Party, at which point they become the doughtiest of battlers for progressive enlightenment, this too is one of the great mysteries of our times.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744
    RobD said:
    Sturgeon is looking for an issue and/or a grievance in 2021 to distract from her government's failure to deliver on domestic policy.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.
    Why? The existing PM would remain until someone else emerges with the confidence of the HoC, or until the HoC decides to call an election or the parliamentary term expires. Impasses can continue for a long time.
    Because May would have already resigned, in the expectation that her successor as party leader will be called upon to be appointed PM. That is what happens when you are ousted as party leader.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    What odds would you have got on the Brexit party banning two candidates for being racist idiots on the first day after they are announced? And on the CUK party?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060

    RobD said:
    Sturgeon is looking for an issue and/or a grievance in 2021 to distract from her government's failure to deliver on domestic policy.
    I think it's fair to consider being told that the only way to guarantee to stay in the EU was to vote No a legitimate grievance!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited April 2019
    CatMan said:

    RobD said:
    Sturgeon is looking for an issue and/or a grievance in 2021 to distract from her government's failure to deliver on domestic policy.
    I think it's fair to consider being told that the only way to guarantee to stay in the EU was to vote No a legitimate grievance!
    Or was it a vote for Yes was a guarantee that they would leave? ;)
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.

    The safest option is to go with the new governing party leader, which kicks the question of confidence to the Commons, which is where the Palace would say it belongs.

    The only exception to this is if the Commons has already - somehow - found a majority for either the LotO or a third candidate. In reality, I don't see any possibility of either of these scenarios. Corbyn wouldn't accept any other PM, should the ball land outside the Tories' grasp, and I don't see TIG or the DUP or (ex-)Con rebels putting Corbyn into No 10.

    So the likely outcome would be a VoNC in the new PM, no alternative govt being formed (which would validate the Palace's decision to not actively oust the sitting party), and a general election. However, by the time the election could be held, October 31 would have come and gone.
    In your scenario what would happen if say just before the result of the contest to succeed May 20 Tory MPs publicly announced they would resign the whip if Boris or a No Dealer were to win.
    That was the last paragraph in the comment you replied to. The exception would be if those 20 MPs were willing to support Corbyn as PM, in which case he'd become PM for long enough to gain a further extension. His government, however, surely couldn't last long in this parliament.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.
    Why? The existing PM would remain until someone else emerges with the confidence of the HoC, or until the HoC decides to call an election or the parliamentary term expires. Impasses can continue for a long time.
    Because May would have already resigned, in the expectation that her successor as party leader will be called upon to be appointed PM. That is what happens when you are ousted as party leader.
    Cameron didn't formally resign as Prime Minister until there was a replacement PM.
  • JackJackJackJack Posts: 98

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.
    Why? The existing PM would remain until someone else emerges with the confidence of the HoC, or until the HoC decides to call an election or the parliamentary term expires. Impasses can continue for a long time.
    So rebel Tories unwilling to back Raab or Boris or whoever would have a choice between supporting them or going into a General Election having voted against the Tory leader as PM.
  • Well the priest giving the oration at Lyra McKee's funeral just gave the politicians both barrels
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Jeremy Hunt somehow manages to bring even less gravitas to the role of Foreign Secretary than Boris Johnson.

    https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1121023834453364737
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744
    CatMan said:

    RobD said:
    Sturgeon is looking for an issue and/or a grievance in 2021 to distract from her government's failure to deliver on domestic policy.
    I think it's fair to consider being told that the only way to guarantee to stay in the EU was to vote No a legitimate grievance!
    It was a fair and accurate promise; it wasn't a guarantee that EU membership would be retained indefinitely.
  • JackJack said:

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.
    Why? The existing PM would remain until someone else emerges with the confidence of the HoC, or until the HoC decides to call an election or the parliamentary term expires. Impasses can continue for a long time.
    So rebel Tories unwilling to back Raab or Boris or whoever would have a choice between supporting them or going into a General Election having voted against the Tory leader as PM.
    ... and being deselected
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313


    Mr Meeks, as I understand it, the incumbent government has the right to remain in office (and de facto appoint the PM), unless it can be demonstrated there is an alternative that commands a majority. It is possible that if an ardent Leaver is elected there will be those Tory MPs who refuse to give that support, but it would be tantamount to resigning the whip.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Indeed, it is when i will be proven a fool or not, if Labour do not make such a pledge.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    Jeremy Hunt somehow manages to bring even less gravitas to the role of Foreign Secretary than Boris Johnson.

    https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1121023834453364737

    I only learned that he was foreign secretary because of your post!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    JackJack said:

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.
    Why? The existing PM would remain until someone else emerges with the confidence of the HoC, or until the HoC decides to call an election or the parliamentary term expires. Impasses can continue for a long time.
    So rebel Tories unwilling to back Raab or Boris or whoever would have a choice between supporting them or going into a General Election having voted against the Tory leader as PM.
    ... and being deselected
    Don't rule out the possibility that the new Tory leader could collude in this, allowing the party to be simultaneously in government and in opposition.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    kinabalu said:

    JackJack said:

    Apparently bigotry from individual rally attendees mean the Brexit Party is awful, but Anti-Semitism at the highest levels of the Labour Party should not impugn them.

    Yes, a riddle of the first order. Then again, the way that certain people are intensely relaxed about racism except when it manifests as antisemitism in the Labour Party, at which point they become the doughtiest of battlers for progressive enlightenment, this too is one of the great mysteries of our times.
    Ha! Indeed!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,871

    JackJack said:

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.
    Why? The existing PM would remain until someone else emerges with the confidence of the HoC, or until the HoC decides to call an election or the parliamentary term expires. Impasses can continue for a long time.
    So rebel Tories unwilling to back Raab or Boris or whoever would have a choice between supporting them or going into a General Election having voted against the Tory leader as PM.
    ... and being deselected
    Don't rule out the possibility that the new Tory leader could collude in this, allowing the party to be simultaneously in government and in opposition.
    I think that we have done that already!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Stunning surprise, I'm sure she wrestled with that one. Thank goodness for her the situation has actually changed since Sindyref.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Good afternoon, and blessing of the Great Green God upon you all. May your deeds be carbon neutral, my children.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    So if the UK ends up remaining, she's buggered.
    How long would the Scottish independence negotiations take.....can't see them going any more smoothly than Brexit.
    I honestly think they would be at least an order of magnitude more complex to negotiate. They would make Brexit look about as simple as boiling an egg.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.
    Why? The existing PM would remain until someone else emerges with the confidence of the HoC, or until the HoC decides to call an election or the parliamentary term expires. Impasses can continue for a long time.
    Because May would have already resigned, in the expectation that her successor as party leader will be called upon to be appointed PM. That is what happens when you are ousted as party leader.
    But could she not carry on in a caretaker capacity until a General Election occurs which hopefully changes the parliamentary arithmetic and breaks the deadlock?
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    RobD said:
    I dare say the epoch has moved on somewhat given that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against its will.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.
    Why? The existing PM would remain until someone else emerges with the confidence of the HoC, or until the HoC decides to call an election or the parliamentary term expires. Impasses can continue for a long time.
    Because May would have already resigned, in the expectation that her successor as party leader will be called upon to be appointed PM. That is what happens when you are ousted as party leader.
    It will be interesting to see which of the two main UK "fake grievance parties", the SNP or the Brexit Nationalist Party manage to con enough of the electorate to achieve their aims.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    glw said:

    So if the UK ends up remaining, she's buggered.
    How long would the Scottish independence negotiations take.....can't see them going any more smoothly than Brexit.
    I honestly think they would be at least an order of magnitude more complex to negotiate. They would make Brexit look about as simple as boiling an egg.
    No worries, we have been assured that what the rUK tries to do is irrelevant when the Scots vote for independence, its totally different to the EU being vital to untangling ourselves from the EU. Somehow.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    _Anazina_ said:

    RobD said:
    I dare say the epoch has moved on somewhat given that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against its will.
    No doubt the nationalist would argue any minor change in circumstance would be reason enough for another referendum.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    _Anazina_ said:

    RobD said:
    I dare say the epoch has moved on somewhat given that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against its will.
    Perhaps we should see how the next Scottish elections ho before assuming that change gives justification for assuming people want another vote .
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    Good afternoon, and blessing of the Great Green God upon you all. May your deeds be carbon neutral, my children.

    You still wibbling on to yourself nonsensically about global warming being a 'religion'?
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337



    I'm sorry but this is fantasy. Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM. Theresa May won't stay on once the Tory leadership election result is announced, she will resign in the (correct) assumption that the Palace will act in accordance with precedent and invite her successor as Con leader to become PM. The only possible exception to that is if it's already clear that there is a majority supporting an alternative PM - which as your post makes clear, there wouldn't be.

    The Palace would want to stay above politics and their position would be that it would be for the Commons to demonstrate that it had no confidence in the new PM, given that it did have confidence in the previous Con leader.

    The Conservatives do not have a right to replace Prime Ministers. If it were apparent that a Conservative leader would not command the confidence of Parliament (and if it were a no-dealer it would be), he would not be called. I am at a loss to understand why you think he would be.
    Surely, convention would be to invite the (new) leader of the largest party to form a government and seek the confidence of the house? And I'm not as sure as Alistair that it wouldn't be given.. much as the whole Tory party backed TM a short while after narrowly failing to oust her as party leader. If the consequence is pretty much automatic deselection, and given the collective timidity of the current House when it comes to the crunch, I could see even BoJo getting through a VOC, with the voting down being left to votes on the issue at hand - ie the same impasse we have now.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    RobD said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    RobD said:
    I dare say the epoch has moved on somewhat given that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against its will.
    No doubt the nationalist would argue any minor change in circumstance would be reason enough for another referendum.
    Hardly a 'minor' change in circumstances though is it? But, you knew that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.
    Why? The existing PM would remain until someone else emerges with the confidence of the HoC, or until the HoC decides to call an election or the parliamentary term expires. Impasses can continue for a long time.
    Because May would have already resigned, in the expectation that her successor as party leader will be called upon to be appointed PM. That is what happens when you are ousted as party leader.
    It will be interesting to see which of the two main UK "fake grievance parties", the SNP or the Brexit Nationalist Party manage to con enough of the electorate to achieve their aims.
    Leaving aside the characterisation of either, the SNP are far more likely to achieve their aims.

    And the DUP would be very upset, though arent they always, at not being recognised as a main UK fake grievance party.

    Note - fake grievance parties can also have legitimate grievances, but like porn vs art I think we can mostly tell the difference.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    kle4 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    RobD said:
    I dare say the epoch has moved on somewhat given that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against its will.
    Perhaps we should see how the next Scottish elections ho before assuming that change gives justification for assuming people want another vote .
    Perhaps we should. Nicola is just expressing her opinion.

    Fair play to her.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744
    justin124 said:

    Once a governing party has elected a new leader, that person will be invited to become PM.

    {snip}

    The Palace would want to stay above politics...

    If enough members of the governing party make it clear they do not support that person as PM, the path of least resistance for the Palace wouldn't be to invite that person to form a government.
    The Palace still has to invite someone and has only three options:
    - The new governing party leader;
    - The LotO;
    - Someone else.
    Why? The existing PM would remain until someone else emerges with the confidence of the HoC, or until the HoC decides to call an election or the parliamentary term expires. Impasses can continue for a long time.
    Because May would have already resigned, in the expectation that her successor as party leader will be called upon to be appointed PM. That is what happens when you are ousted as party leader.
    But could she not carry on in a caretaker capacity until a General Election occurs which hopefully changes the parliamentary arithmetic and breaks the deadlock?
    Why would she do that?

    We're getting far too distracted by the detail of procedure here. The idea that a PM, with virtually no political authority, could continue to squat in No 10, after a successor as party leader had been elected is for the birds. The public outcry would be immense and she probably wouldn't even be able to maintain a government herself. Indeed, she'd probably be at risk of being expelled from her party.

    If the new leader couldn't gain the confidence of the House, that would be his or her problem. There is no constitutional requirement for a PM to have to demonstrate that they *already* have the House's confidence when they are appointed. Cameron didn't in 2010, nor Wilson in March 1974.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    _Anazina_ said:

    RobD said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    RobD said:
    I dare say the epoch has moved on somewhat given that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against its will.
    No doubt the nationalist would argue any minor change in circumstance would be reason enough for another referendum.
    Hardly a 'minor' change in circumstances though is it? But, you knew that.
    Yeah, this definitely isn't minor. But that wasn't what I was claiming.
This discussion has been closed.