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  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the will of the people (mysteriously capable of interpretation by the Leader), the labelling of others as traitors, quislings, enemies of the people and saboteurs because they hold different views and the use of martial language (picking up their rifle, World War Two references) may or many not be proto-fascist but they are certainly a degrading of Britain’s politics.
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    I always found that quite odd.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    justin124 said:



    Neither did Ramsay Macdonald in 1929 and 1924, but - excepting Wilson in March 1974 - there had been public declarations from Asquith, Lloyd George and Clegg that they would not seek to oppose the Governments being formed. Wilson had no such assurance and would likely have sought a further immediate Dissolution had he been defeated on the Queen's Speech. On none of those occasions was it clear that the incoming PM would be denied a majority. If,however, Johnson or Raab led a Tory party of 300 - 305 MPs in circumstances where a majority of MPs had declared in public an intention to bring him down, would the Palace consider it appropriate to entrust him with the Queen's Commission? I believe there have been occasions when the person called to the Palace has promised to 'try' to put together an administration that would receive the confidence of the Commons. I vaguely recall that Douglas-Home initially gave that response in October 1963.

    What it comes back to is that *someone* has to be given the commission. If May resigned, as she should, having been ousted as party leader and having no alternative support, then the Queen would have to appoint someone. Certainly, if 320+ MPs had declared their support for Corbyn as PM, then he should be invited. However if that weren't the case - if there was merely a majority against (say) Boris - then the better option IMO would be to invite Boris on the basis that:
    1. The Palace shouldn't switch the party formation of government unless it's clear that there's a viable government elsewhere;
    2. It is better for the Commons to have to demonstrate a lack of confidence in a potential continuity government than to act on the assumption of it; and
    3. That forcing a confidence vote in a Boris government would trigger the FTPA provisions, whereas dismissing the Tories by alternative appointment would not.
    I think what you are missing is that the PM doesn't resign. She can offer her resignation to Her Maj, but she stays as PM until an alternative PM is appointed, and that only happens when there's someone who appears likely to command the confidence of the House. If no-one does so, then May stays as PM, an election is called after the 14-day period specified in the Fixed Term Parliament Act, and a new PM is (hopefully) appointed when the election results are known.
    Which is the ‘one job government’ scenario I have been touting for some time. Backed by clear public opinion that Brexit was a mistake (and we are already approaching 60/40), a cross-party majority of MPs acquire the balls to form a short term administration headed by someone obviously not in the running for next PM like Clarke or Grieve or Cable to put Brexit out of its misery. Followed by a GE.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,581
    edited April 2019
    RobD said:

    If Scotland was in the EU, and RUK wasn't it would be impossible to see how there wouldn't be a hard border between England and Scotland.

    Exactly the same situation as NI would apply.

    It's a much shorter border, with much less political significance. If necessary, a Swiss-style border would be feasible in a way it isn't in Ireland.
    How would that not threaten the integrity of the single market?
    Because it would be a hard border with customs controls, like Switzerland.
    I'm sure this'll be part of the SNP plan, at the same time as using the same currency?
    There is a large Borders area which regards northern England and southern Scotland as part of the same region, economy, employment, culture, travel and shopping area. The population affected is not huge but is in the hundreds of thousands. It is not about guns and religion, but it is about people's lives. For there to be a currency/EU/customs/CAP border at Gretna, Carlisle and Berwick would be a huge issue about which the wonderful and peaceful people living there are currently silent. be careful what you wish for.
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729

    If Scotland was in the EU, and RUK wasn't it would be impossible to see how there wouldn't be a hard border between England and Scotland.

    Exactly the same situation as NI would apply.

    It's a much shorter border, with much less political significance. If necessary, a Swiss-style border would be feasible in a way it isn't in Ireland.
    How would that not threaten the integrity of the single market?
    Because it would be a hard border with customs controls, like Switzerland.
    So the post of mine which @Slackbladder was replying to which you decided to remove (ie would the SNP be campaigning for a hard border?), you think the answer is yes?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    The sad thing about 'Southend" Airport.......its actually not within the confines of the borough.... is that back in the 50's, in the days of very noisy and slow propellor driven planes it was very noisy indeed. I attended a school right under the flight path and some class-rooms were almost unusable at time of heavy traffic. Then it went into decline and was almost all club-flying with some freight. Now it's been brought back to life as a proper commercial airport, but in the meantime houses have been built close to the perimeter.

    And yes there are some bad parts of Essex, but as _Anazina says there are some lovely areas. As well as those she mentions, there's most of the coast, once South of Clacton right down to Southend. And there are some really ancient buildings; St Peters at Bradwell was bullt in the 600's, there are some even older in Colchester.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the will of the people (mysteriously capable of interpretation by the Leader), the labelling of others as traitors, quislings, enemies of the people and saboteurs because they hold different views and the use of martial language (picking up their rifle, World War Two references) may or many not be proto-fascist but they are certainly a degrading of Britain’s politics.
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    If Scotland was in the EU, and RUK wasn't it would be impossible to see how there wouldn't be a hard border between England and Scotland.

    Exactly the same situation as NI would apply.

    It's a much shorter border, with much less political significance. If necessary, a Swiss-style border would be feasible in a way it isn't in Ireland.
    How would that not threaten the integrity of the single market?
    Because it would be a hard border with customs controls, like Switzerland.
    Would it need passport controls? We won't be joining Schengen if we leave the EU with no deal, will we?
    If Scotland joined Schengen, which it would have to to (re-) join the EU, then yes there would have to be passport controls.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    IanB2 said:

    Which is the ‘one job government’ scenario I have been touting for some time. Backed by clear public opinion that Brexit was a mistake (and we are already approaching 60/40), a cross-party majority of MPs acquire the balls to form a short term administration headed by someone obviously not in the running for next PM like Clarke or Grieve or Cable to put Brexit out of its misery. Followed by a GE.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SwQ9iavJeI

    :-)
  • _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    I’ve watched The Only Way Is Essex.

    I’ve also spent lots of time in Southend in my youth, as well as other parts of Essex.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    It never got quite down to that. There was a regular service to Ostend in the 70's.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    I’ve watched The Only Way Is Essex.

    I’ve also spent lots of time in Southend in my youth, as well as other parts of Essex.
    So I'll take that as two noes to my question then.

    You are missing out.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    That RyanAir wannabe being Ryanair? (at least judging by the picture)
    Very fair challenge! I was thinking of Flybe, who were the earlier budget airline to focus upon the airport. My fondness for Southend is because it was my first solo landaway back more than ten years ago when I was qualifying for my PPL. My instructor said it was an easy one because if I saw sea beneath the aircraft I should turn back having obviously failed to find the airport. Either that or continue to Holland.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    When

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    It never got quite down to that. There was a regular service to Ostend in the 70's.
    When I flew there in the mid 2000s there was nothing like this going on.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    That RyanAir wannabe being Ryanair? (at least judging by the picture)
    Very fair challenge! I was thinking of Flybe, who were the earlier budget airline to focus upon the airport. My fondness for Southend is because it was my first solo landaway back more than ten years ago when I was qualifying for my PPL. My instructor said it was an easy one because if I saw sea beneath the aircraft I should turn back having obviously failed to find the airport. Either that or continue to Holland.
    Southend is an awful airport and anyone thinking of using it should be discouraged in the strongest possible terms. I don't want it getting busy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    If Scotland was in the EU, and RUK wasn't it would be impossible to see how there wouldn't be a hard border between England and Scotland.

    Exactly the same situation as NI would apply.

    It's a much shorter border, with much less political significance. If necessary, a Swiss-style border would be feasible in a way it isn't in Ireland.
    How would that not threaten the integrity of the single market?
    Because it would be a hard border with customs controls, like Switzerland.
    So the post of mine which @Slackbladder was replying to which you decided to remove (ie would the SNP be campaigning for a hard border?), you think the answer is yes?
    A no deal scenario wouldn't be sustainable long enough for that question to be relevant.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    IanB2 said:

    Which is the ‘one job government’ scenario I have been touting for some time. Backed by clear public opinion that Brexit was a mistake (and we are already approaching 60/40), a cross-party majority of MPs acquire the balls to form a short term administration headed by someone obviously not in the running for next PM like Clarke or Grieve or Cable to put Brexit out of its misery. Followed by a GE.

    That would require Labour to split and most of its MPs to back someone other than Corbyn as PM, which even as a temporary PM is very unlikely. (The Tories would also have to split, which is more plausible but still not very likely). Much more likely that we'd drift into a GE with May as caretaker.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744



    What it comes back to is that *someone* has to be given the commission. If May resigned, as she should, having been ousted as party leader and having no alternative support, then the Queen would have to appoint someone. Certainly, if 320+ MPs had declared their support for Corbyn as PM, then he should be invited. However if that weren't the case - if there was merely a majority against (say) Boris - then the better option IMO would be to invite Boris on the basis that:
    1. The Palace shouldn't switch the party formation of government unless it's clear that there's a viable government elsewhere;
    2. It is better for the Commons to have to demonstrate a lack of confidence in a potential continuity government than to act on the assumption of it; and
    3. That forcing a confidence vote in a Boris government would trigger the FTPA provisions, whereas dismissing the Tories by alternative appointment would not.

    I think what you are missing is that the PM doesn't resign. She can offer her resignation to Her Maj, but she stays as PM until an alternative PM is appointed, and that only happens when there's someone who appears likely to command the confidence of the House. If no-one does so, then May stays as PM, an election is called after the 14-day period specified in the Fixed Term Parliament Act, and a new PM is (hopefully) appointed when the election results are known.
    That would only happen after a VoNC. I suppose it's possible that May might choose to deliberately lose a VoNC in order to trigger the process but it seems convoluted.

    In any case, it's not for any incoming PM to have to demonstrate the confidence of the House in advance, or for the Queen to require those assurances. See Lloyd George in 1916, for example. When a PM resigns, they do not stay on until a new government has been 'confidenced'; someone is given a commission to form their own government and can act *at that point* as the prime minister. They might find themselves unable to do so and so drop into that limbo of not-quite-prime-ministers, alongside Earl Waldegrave and John Russell in (IIRC) 1845, but the ex-PM is still out of the equation by then.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    algarkirk said:


    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.

    Go to the previous thread. Look at the poster and the man in front of it. If you can't see the political path from that poster to whatever the 21st century version of the gas chambers is, then I congratulate you on your calm disposition.

    The Brexit Party is certainly Bannonite. Care to elaborate exactly how Bannonism differs from proto-fascism?

  • algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the will of the people (mysteriously capable of interpretation by the Leader), the labelling of others as traitors, quislings, enemies of the people and saboteurs because they hold different views and the use of martial language (picking up their rifle, World War Two references) may or many not be proto-fascist but they are certainly a degrading of Britain’s politics.
    Centrist politics is where you unite people around what you are for. Isms arise when you unite people around what you are against - and normally a group of people who become the enemy. This starts with the use of language to denigrate those you oppose and ends with justifying the use of violence against them. Brexit is definitely bringing out the worst in some people, but we must be honest about those we disagree with and measured in our words or else we become part of the problem.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Scottish independence campaign underway already.

    https://twitter.com/YesScot/status/1121052885742231553

    The path of fake grievance and a fake utopian future. They have so much in common with Brexiteers.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    The sad thing about 'Southend" Airport.......its actually not within the confines of the borough.... is that back in the 50's, in the days of very noisy and slow propellor driven planes it was very noisy indeed. I attended a school right under the flight path and some class-rooms were almost unusable at time of heavy traffic. Then it went into decline and was almost all club-flying with some freight. Now it's been brought back to life as a proper commercial airport, but in the meantime houses have been built close to the perimeter.

    And yes there are some bad parts of Essex, but as _Anazina says there are some lovely areas. As well as those she mentions, there's most of the coast, once South of Clacton right down to Southend. And there are some really ancient buildings; St Peters at Bradwell was bullt in the 600's, there are some even older in Colchester.
    North Essex really belongs in Suffolk. On that point there really isn’t any argument.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744
    rpjs said:

    If Scotland was in the EU, and RUK wasn't it would be impossible to see how there wouldn't be a hard border between England and Scotland.

    Exactly the same situation as NI would apply.

    It's a much shorter border, with much less political significance. If necessary, a Swiss-style border would be feasible in a way it isn't in Ireland.
    How would that not threaten the integrity of the single market?
    Because it would be a hard border with customs controls, like Switzerland.
    Would it need passport controls? We won't be joining Schengen if we leave the EU with no deal, will we?
    If Scotland joined Schengen, which it would have to to (re-) join the EU, then yes there would have to be passport controls.
    It's not certain that it would have to. Each new applicant needs an accession treaty, so existing treaties (never mind policies) can be re-written at will. If Scotland were required to join Schengen, that would put the RoI's anomalous position re Schengen into very stark focus, which is surely somewhere the EU wouldn't want to go?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    The sad thing about 'Southend" Airport.......its actually not within the confines of the borough.... is that back in the 50's, in the days of very noisy and slow propellor driven planes it was very noisy indeed. I attended a school right under the flight path and some class-rooms were almost unusable at time of heavy traffic. Then it went into decline and was almost all club-flying with some freight. Now it's been brought back to life as a proper commercial airport, but in the meantime houses have been built close to the perimeter.

    And yes there are some bad parts of Essex, but as _Anazina says there are some lovely areas. As well as those she mentions, there's most of the coast, once South of Clacton right down to Southend. And there are some really ancient buildings; St Peters at Bradwell was bullt in the 600's, there are some even older in Colchester.
    North Essex really belongs in Suffolk. On that point there really isn’t any argument.
    I suggest you come round here and say that. You'd be surprised how unpopular you'd be.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited April 2019
    Mango said:

    algarkirk said:


    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.

    Go to the previous thread. Look at the poster and the man in front of it. If you can't see the political path from that poster to whatever the 21st century version of the gas chambers is, then I congratulate you on your calm disposition.

    The Brexit Party is certainly Bannonite. Care to elaborate exactly how Bannonism differs from proto-fascism?

    Given the Brexit party has no other policies except Brexit, I’m not sure how you can make that assertion.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    That RyanAir wannabe being Ryanair? (at least judging by the picture)
    Very fair challenge! I was thinking of Flybe, who were the earlier budget airline to focus upon the airport. My fondness for Southend is because it was my first solo landaway back more than ten years ago when I was qualifying for my PPL. My instructor said it was an easy one because if I saw sea beneath the aircraft I should turn back having obviously failed to find the airport. Either that or continue to Holland.
    Southend is an awful airport and anyone thinking of using it should be discouraged in the strongest possible terms. I don't want it getting busy.
    The London City effect. World of difference between 2001 and now. Unfortunately.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Scottish independence campaign underway already.

    https://twitter.com/YesScot/status/1121052885742231553

    The path of fake grievance and a fake utopian future. They have so much in common with Brexiteers.
    Surely even you would admit that Brexit is not a fake grievance.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    That RyanAir wannabe being Ryanair? (at least judging by the picture)
    Very fair challenge! I was thinking of Flybe, who were the earlier budget airline to focus upon the airport. My fondness for Southend is because it was my first solo landaway back more than ten years ago when I was qualifying for my PPL. My instructor said it was an easy one because if I saw sea beneath the aircraft I should turn back having obviously failed to find the airport. Either that or continue to Holland.
    Safer to train in a sea plane? :D
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the will of the people (mysteriously capable of interpretation by the Leader), the labelling of others as traitors, quislings, enemies of the people and saboteurs because they hold different views and the use of martial language (picking up their rifle, World War Two references) may or many not be proto-fascist but they are certainly a degrading of Britain’s politics.
    Centrist politics is where you unite people around what you are for. Isms arise when you unite people around what you are against - and normally a group of people who become the enemy. This starts with the use of language to denigrate those you oppose and ends with justifying the use of violence against them. Brexit is definitely bringing out the worst in some people, but we must be honest about those we disagree with and measured in our words or else we become part of the problem.
    I am centrist, though I am quite happy to define that as what I am against. I am against fascism (in all it's forms including the Farage variety), Brexitism, I am against racism, I am against socialism, communism, Marxism, Corbynism. I generally favour the status quo over unnecessary change. Essentially I am a dying breed; a moderate conservative.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    That RyanAir wannabe being Ryanair? (at least judging by the picture)
    Very fair challenge! I was thinking of Flybe, who were the earlier budget airline to focus upon the airport. My fondness for Southend is because it was my first solo landaway back more than ten years ago when I was qualifying for my PPL. My instructor said it was an easy one because if I saw sea beneath the aircraft I should turn back having obviously failed to find the airport. Either that or continue to Holland.
    Safer to train in a sea plane? :D
    Not if the plan is to return to an airfield adjacent to the M25
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Scottish independence campaign underway already.

    https://twitter.com/YesScot/status/1121052885742231553

    The path of fake grievance and a fake utopian future. They have so much in common with Brexiteers.
    Surely even you would admit that Brexit is not a fake grievance.
    Most of the complaints against the EU are as phony and exaggerated as Boris Johnson's marital vows. So yes, Brexit is based on fake grievances.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited April 2019

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the will of the people (mysteriously capable of interpretation by the Leader), the labelling of others as traitors, quislings, enemies of the people and saboteurs because they hold different views and the use of martial language (picking up their rifle, World War Two references) may or many not be proto-fascist but they are certainly a degrading of Britain’s politics.
    Centrist politics is where you unite people around what you are for. Isms arise when you unite people around what you are against - and normally a group of people who become the enemy. This starts with the use of language to denigrate those you oppose and ends with justifying the use of violence against them. Brexit is definitely bringing out the worst in some people, but we must be honest about those we disagree with and measured in our words or else we become part of the problem.
    I am centrist, though I am quite happy to define that as what I am against. I am against fascism (in all it's forms including the Farage variety), Brexitism, I am against racism, I am against socialism, communism, Marxism, Corbynism. I generally favour the status quo over unnecessary change. Essentially I am a dying breed; a moderate conservative.
    I assume the Farage version of fascism is “not fascism”? Otherwise you are going to run out of words when an actual fascist turns up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    Scottish independence campaign underway already.

    https://twitter.com/YesScot/status/1121052885742231553

    The path of fake grievance and a fake utopian future. They have so much in common with Brexiteers.
    Surely even you would admit that Brexit is not a fake grievance.
    It’s a genuine grievance with a fake solution.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    That RyanAir wannabe being Ryanair? (at least judging by the picture)
    Very fair challenge! I was thinking of Flybe, who were the earlier budget airline to focus upon the airport. My fondness for Southend is because it was my first solo landaway back more than ten years ago when I was qualifying for my PPL. My instructor said it was an easy one because if I saw sea beneath the aircraft I should turn back having obviously failed to find the airport. Either that or continue to Holland.
    Safer to train in a sea plane? :D
    Not if the plan is to return to an airfield adjacent to the M25
    That's North Weald, not Southend.
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    Re Attenborough/Extinction Rebellion's 12 years to prevent climate catastrophe, they're a little less hyperbolic than the 11 years given by the UN 30 years ago

    "U.N. Predicts Disaster if Global Warming Not Checked
    PETER JAMES SPIELMANN
    June 30, 1989
    UNITED NATIONS (AP) _ A senior U.N. environmental official says entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000.

    Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of ″eco- refugees,′ ′ threatening political chaos, said Noel Brown, director of the New York office of the U.N. Environment Program, or UNEP.

    He said governments have a 10-year window of opportunity to solve the greenhouse effect before it goes beyond human control.

    As the warming melts polar icecaps, ocean levels will rise by up to three feet, enough to cover the Maldives and other flat island nations, Brown told The Associated Press in an interview on Wednesday."
    https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Scottish independence campaign underway already.

    https://twitter.com/YesScot/status/1121052885742231553

    The path of fake grievance and a fake utopian future. They have so much in common with Brexiteers.
    Surely even you would admit that Brexit is not a fake grievance.
    Most of the complaints against the EU are as phony and exaggerated as Boris Johnson's marital vows. So yes, Brexit is based on fake grievances.
    It is a genuine grievance that Scotland faces being Brexited against its wishes, and the way it has been handled highlights genuine grievances with the UK constitution which there is almost no appetite to solve.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    edited April 2019
    Mr. B2, what would you solution be?

    Edited extra bit: your*, even.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Re Attenborough/Extinction Rebellion's 12 years to prevent climate catastrophe, they're a little less hyperbolic than the 11 years given by the UN 30 years ago

    "U.N. Predicts Disaster if Global Warming Not Checked
    PETER JAMES SPIELMANN
    June 30, 1989
    UNITED NATIONS (AP) _ A senior U.N. environmental official says entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000.

    Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of ″eco- refugees,′ ′ threatening political chaos, said Noel Brown, director of the New York office of the U.N. Environment Program, or UNEP.

    He said governments have a 10-year window of opportunity to solve the greenhouse effect before it goes beyond human control.

    As the warming melts polar icecaps, ocean levels will rise by up to three feet, enough to cover the Maldives and other flat island nations, Brown told The Associated Press in an interview on Wednesday."
    https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0

    You mean nothing has changed? :smiley::p
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    RobD said:

    Mango said:

    algarkirk said:


    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.

    Go to the previous thread. Look at the poster and the man in front of it. If you can't see the political path from that poster to whatever the 21st century version of the gas chambers is, then I congratulate you on your calm disposition.

    The Brexit Party is certainly Bannonite. Care to elaborate exactly how Bannonism differs from proto-fascism?

    Given the Brexit party has no other policies except Brexit, I’m not sure how you can make that assertion.
    Brexit affects ever aspect of national life, so the Brexit Nationalist Party has a policy that trumps every other one. Sorry to be pedantic, but Farage is not a Proto-fascist, even though he dresses as though he is old enough. He is better described as a possible Crypto-fascist
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    Mango said:

    algarkirk said:


    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.

    Go to the previous thread. Look at the poster and the man in front of it. If you can't see the political path from that poster to whatever the 21st century version of the gas chambers is, then I congratulate you on your calm disposition.

    The Brexit Party is certainly Bannonite. Care to elaborate exactly how Bannonism differs from proto-fascism?

    Given the Brexit party has no other policies except Brexit, I’m not sure how you can make that assertion.
    Brexit affects ever aspect of national life, so the Brexit Nationalist Party has a policy that trumps every other one. Sorry to be pedantic, but Farage is not a Proto-fascist, even though he dresses as though he is old enough. He is better described as a possible Crypto-fascist
    Next we’ll hear how Brexit is a fascist endeavour....
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    The sad thing about 'Southend" Airport.......its actually not within the confines of the borough.... is that back in the 50's, in the days of very noisy and slow propellor driven planes it was very noisy indeed. I attended a school right under the flight path and some class-rooms were almost unusable at time of heavy traffic. Then it went into decline and was almost all club-flying with some freight. Now it's been brought back to life as a proper commercial airport, but in the meantime houses have been built close to the perimeter.

    And yes there are some bad parts of Essex, but as _Anazina says there are some lovely areas. As well as those she mentions, there's most of the coast, once South of Clacton right down to Southend. And there are some really ancient buildings; St Peters at Bradwell was bullt in the 600's, there are some even older in Colchester.
    North Essex really belongs in Suffolk. On that point there really isn’t any argument.
    I suggest you come round here and say that. You'd be surprised how unpopular you'd be.
    Those southern Suffolkers mispronounce the Stour, for one thing
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Glenn, almost as if UK foreign policy isn't a devolved matter...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    Centrist politics is where you unite people around what you are for. Isms arise when you unite people around what you are against - and normally a group of people who become the enemy. This starts with the use of language to denigrate those you oppose and ends with justifying the use of violence against them. Brexit is definitely bringing out the worst in some people, but we must be honest about those we disagree with and measured in our words or else we become part of the problem.

    Brexit does bring out the worst, as does its kissing cousin, Trump. His supporters just love a bit of casual racism and misogyny and he has his opponents losing both marbles and moral compass. Me, for example, he's got me seriously rooting for a grisly US recession in time for WH2020, one where many millions of ordinary Americans lose their livelihoods and preferably all of their self-respect along with it. That's not nice for me. It has taken something from me, something important. I hate him for that and my hatred diminishes me. Hate him for that too.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    That RyanAir wannabe being Ryanair? (at least judging by the picture)
    Very fair challenge! I was thinking of Flybe, who were the earlier budget airline to focus upon the airport. My fondness for Southend is because it was my first solo landaway back more than ten years ago when I was qualifying for my PPL. My instructor said it was an easy one because if I saw sea beneath the aircraft I should turn back having obviously failed to find the airport. Either that or continue to Holland.
    Safer to train in a sea plane? :D
    Not if the plan is to return to an airfield adjacent to the M25
    That's North Weald, not Southend.
    In my case, it was Stapleford. Fact remains, no-one is ever going to take off in a seaplane from either.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Scripting is great.

    I've just downloaded 28MB of tweets from Change UK candidates' feeds.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    edited April 2019
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    That RyanAir wannabe being Ryanair? (at least judging by the picture)
    Very fair challenge! I was thinking of Flybe, who were the earlier budget airline to focus upon the airport. My fondness for Southend is because it was my first solo landaway back more than ten years ago when I was qualifying for my PPL. My instructor said it was an easy one because if I saw sea beneath the aircraft I should turn back having obviously failed to find the airport. Either that or continue to Holland.
    Safer to train in a sea plane? :D
    Not if the plan is to return to an airfield adjacent to the M25
    That's North Weald, not Southend.
    In my case, it was Stapleford. Fact remains, no-one is ever going to take off in a seaplane from either.
    Very true. More to the point, land.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    Mr. B2, what would you solution be?

    Edited extra bit: your*, even.


    The problem with British politics is that whichever of the main parties is in power has no interest in, and no internal spokespeople for, large parts of the country. If we had a fairer more representative voting system both of the large parties would have voices representing the north/south and urban/rural, and we wouldn’t get into this position where all the focus is on Basildon Man or Worcester Woman and large swathes of the country feel utterly neglected.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Scripting is great.

    I've just downloaded 28MB of tweets from Change UK candidates' feeds.

    I'm betting someone else has beaten you to it ;)
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    RobD said:

    Scripting is great.

    I've just downloaded 28MB of tweets from Change UK candidates' feeds.

    I'm betting someone else has beaten you to it ;)
    Hopefully CHUK!!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    That RyanAir wannabe being Ryanair? (at least judging by the picture)
    Very fair challenge! I was thinking of Flybe, who were the earlier budget airline to focus upon the airport. My fondness for Southend is because it was my first solo landaway back more than ten years ago when I was qualifying for my PPL. My instructor said it was an easy one because if I saw sea beneath the aircraft I should turn back having obviously failed to find the airport. Either that or continue to Holland.
    Safer to train in a sea plane? :D
    Not if the plan is to return to an airfield adjacent to the M25
    That's North Weald, not Southend.
    In my case, it was Stapleford. Fact remains, no-one is ever going to take off in a seaplane from either.
    Very true. More to the point, land.
    I’d like to see someone take off in a seaplane from either! Maybe possible from the grass alongside the runways.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited April 2019

    RobD said:

    Scripting is great.

    I've just downloaded 28MB of tweets from Change UK candidates' feeds.

    I'm betting someone else has beaten you to it ;)
    Hopefully CHUK!!
    I was more thinking Guido. CHUK clearly haven't.
  • kinabalu said:

    Centrist politics is where you unite people around what you are for. Isms arise when you unite people around what you are against - and normally a group of people who become the enemy. This starts with the use of language to denigrate those you oppose and ends with justifying the use of violence against them. Brexit is definitely bringing out the worst in some people, but we must be honest about those we disagree with and measured in our words or else we become part of the problem.

    Brexit does bring out the worst, as does its kissing cousin, Trump. His supporters just love a bit of casual racism and misogyny and he has his opponents losing both marbles and moral compass. Me, for example, he's got me seriously rooting for a grisly US recession in time for WH2020, one where many millions of ordinary Americans lose their livelihoods and preferably all of their self-respect along with it. That's not nice for me. It has taken something from me, something important. I hate him for that and my hatred diminishes me. Hate him for that too.
    Hate is destructive and you are better than that
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    edited April 2019

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    The sad thing about 'Southend" Airport.......its actually not within the confines of the borough.... is that back in the 50's, in the days of very noisy and slow propellor driven planes it was very noisy indeed. I attended a school right under the flight path and some class-rooms were almost unusable at time of heavy traffic. Then it went into decline and was almost all club-flying with some freight. Now it's been brought back to life as a proper commercial airport, but in the meantime houses have been built close to the perimeter.

    And yes there are some bad parts of Essex, but as _Anazina says there are some lovely areas. As well as those she mentions, there's most of the coast, once South of Clacton right down to Southend. And there are some really ancient buildings; St Peters at Bradwell was bullt in the 600's, there are some even older in Colchester.
    North Essex really belongs in Suffolk. On that point there really isn’t any argument.
    I suggest you come round here and say that. You'd be surprised how unpopular you'd be.
    Those southern Suffolkers mispronounce the Stour, for one thing

    The only patch of Essex where I have done any serious door knocking is in Saffron Walden. I am pretty sure those residents would bite your hand off if you came offering cessation to Suffolk.

    Edit/ or Cambridgeshire
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    That RyanAir wannabe being Ryanair? (at least judging by the picture)
    Very fair challenge! I was thinking of Flybe, who were the earlier budget airline to focus upon the airport. My fondness for Southend is because it was my first solo landaway back more than ten years ago when I was qualifying for my PPL. My instructor said it was an easy one because if I saw sea beneath the aircraft I should turn back having obviously failed to find the airport. Either that or continue to Holland.
    Safer to train in a sea plane? :D
    Not if the plan is to return to an airfield adjacent to the M25
    That's North Weald, not Southend.
    In my case, it was Stapleford. Fact remains, no-one is ever going to take off in a seaplane from either.
    Very true. More to the point, land.
    I’d like to see someone take off in a seaplane from either! Maybe possible from the grass alongside the runways.
    Depends on how the rain has been recently, I suppose. We don't get that much is Essex.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,536

    Much more likely that we'd drift into a GE with May as caretaker.

    Oh yessssss.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2019

    Much more likely that we'd drift into a GE with May as caretaker.

    Oh yessssss.
    You might not be saying that when Corbyn gets the blame for the ensuing mess.

    Edit: I'm right on the central point, though, am I not? Labour MPs are not going to vote for a caretaker PM who is not leader of the Labour Party.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    The sad thing about 'Southend" Airport.......its actually not within the confines of the borough.... is that back in the 50's, in the days of very noisy and slow propellor driven planes it was very noisy indeed. I attended a school right under the flight path and some class-rooms were almost unusable at time of heavy traffic. Then it went into decline and was almost all club-flying with some freight. Now it's been brought back to life as a proper commercial airport, but in the meantime houses have been built close to the perimeter.

    And yes there are some bad parts of Essex, but as _Anazina says there are some lovely areas. As well as those she mentions, there's most of the coast, once South of Clacton right down to Southend. And there are some really ancient buildings; St Peters at Bradwell was bullt in the 600's, there are some even older in Colchester.
    North Essex really belongs in Suffolk. On that point there really isn’t any argument.
    I suggest you come round here and say that. You'd be surprised how unpopular you'd be.
    Those southern Suffolkers mispronounce the Stour, for one thing

    The only patch of Essex where I have done any serious door knocking is in Saffron Walden. I am pretty sure those residents would bite your hand off if you came offering cessation to Suffolk.
    Cambridge possibly. I suspect to people round Saffron Walden Suffolk means Haverhill. Not to be recommenced, I understand.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Scripting is great.

    I've just downloaded 28MB of tweets from Change UK candidates' feeds.

    I'm betting someone else has beaten you to it ;)
    Hopefully CHUK!!
    I was more thinking Guido. CHUK clearly haven't.
    I'm sure he has. But I thought it might be fun to poke around myself...
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    RobD said:

    Re Attenborough/Extinction Rebellion's 12 years to prevent climate catastrophe, they're a little less hyperbolic than the 11 years given by the UN 30 years ago

    "U.N. Predicts Disaster if Global Warming Not Checked
    PETER JAMES SPIELMANN
    June 30, 1989
    UNITED NATIONS (AP) _ A senior U.N. environmental official says entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000.

    Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of ″eco- refugees,′ ′ threatening political chaos, said Noel Brown, director of the New York office of the U.N. Environment Program, or UNEP.

    He said governments have a 10-year window of opportunity to solve the greenhouse effect before it goes beyond human control.

    As the warming melts polar icecaps, ocean levels will rise by up to three feet, enough to cover the Maldives and other flat island nations, Brown told The Associated Press in an interview on Wednesday."
    https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0

    You mean nothing has changed? :smiley::p
    I guess it's one of those cases where you would be happy to proven wrong.
    It must be a difficult thing to calculate over what timescale it will happen, but we will have more information, better computers and satellites etc than 20 years ago.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Scripting is great.

    I've just downloaded 28MB of tweets from Change UK candidates' feeds.

    Read them with an open mind and you may learn something, or is that not your intention?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    The tweets were clearly offensive

    However if a woman had tweeted “I’m scared of men. I was chased/stalked/attacked by a crazy man” I’d imagine she would receive significant sympathy.

    Conceptually what is the difference between the two?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    The sad thing about 'Southend" Airport.......its actually not within the confines of the borough.... is that back in the 50's, in the days of very noisy and slow propellor driven planes it was very noisy indeed. I attended a school right under the flight path and some class-rooms were almost unusable at time of heavy traffic. Then it went into decline and was almost all club-flying with some freight. Now it's been brought back to life as a proper commercial airport, but in the meantime houses have been built close to the perimeter.

    And yes there are some bad parts of Essex, but as _Anazina says there are some lovely areas. As well as those she mentions, there's most of the coast, once South of Clacton right down to Southend. And there are some really ancient buildings; St Peters at Bradwell was bullt in the 600's, there are some even older in Colchester.
    North Essex really belongs in Suffolk. On that point there really isn’t any argument.
    I suggest you come round here and say that. You'd be surprised how unpopular you'd be.
    Those southern Suffolkers mispronounce the Stour, for one thing

    The only patch of Essex where I have done any serious door knocking is in Saffron Walden. I am pretty sure those residents would bite your hand off if you came offering cessation to Suffolk.
    Cambridge possibly. I suspect to people round Saffron Walden Suffolk means Haverhill. Not to be recommenced, I understand.
    I think you mis-spelled "Haverhole" there
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Scripting is great.

    I've just downloaded 28MB of tweets from Change UK candidates' feeds.

    I'm betting someone else has beaten you to it ;)
    Hopefully CHUK!!
    I was more thinking Guido. CHUK clearly haven't.
    I'm sure he has. But I thought it might be fun to poke around myself...
    Be sure to share any nuggets with us on here on PB :p
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    Re Attenborough/Extinction Rebellion's 12 years to prevent climate catastrophe, they're a little less hyperbolic than the 11 years given by the UN 30 years ago

    "U.N. Predicts Disaster if Global Warming Not Checked
    PETER JAMES SPIELMANN
    June 30, 1989
    UNITED NATIONS (AP) _ A senior U.N. environmental official says entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000.

    Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of ″eco- refugees,′ ′ threatening political chaos, said Noel Brown, director of the New York office of the U.N. Environment Program, or UNEP.

    He said governments have a 10-year window of opportunity to solve the greenhouse effect before it goes beyond human control.

    As the warming melts polar icecaps, ocean levels will rise by up to three feet, enough to cover the Maldives and other flat island nations, Brown told The Associated Press in an interview on Wednesday."
    https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0

    You mean nothing has changed? :smiley::p
    I guess it's one of those cases where you would be happy to proven wrong.
    It must be a difficult thing to calculate over what timescale it will happen, but we will have more information, better computers and satellites etc than 20 years ago.
    Fool me once etc.

    If you are going to make predictions with such far-reaching implications, be sure that you are confident in them.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the will of the people (mysteriously capable of interpretation by the Leader), the labelling of others as traitors, quislings, enemies of the people and saboteurs because they hold different views and the use of martial language (picking up their rifle, World War Two references) may or many not be proto-fascist but they are certainly a degrading of Britain’s politics.
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
    I wonder what a Venn diagram of No Deal Leavers, Trump supporters, Climate Change Deniers and Anti-Vaxxers would look like.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    RobD said:

    Mango said:

    algarkirk said:


    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.

    Go to the previous thread. Look at the poster and the man in front of it. If you can't see the political path from that poster to whatever the 21st century version of the gas chambers is, then I congratulate you on your calm disposition.

    The Brexit Party is certainly Bannonite. Care to elaborate exactly how Bannonism differs from proto-fascism?

    Given the Brexit party has no other policies except Brexit, I’m not sure how you can make that assertion.
    Brexit affects ever aspect of national life, so the Brexit Nationalist Party has a policy that trumps every other one. Sorry to be pedantic, but Farage is not a Proto-fascist, even though he dresses as though he is old enough. He is better described as a possible Crypto-fascist
    errr no it doesnt

    stupid exaggerations like that simply undermine any pro EU arguments
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    You're supporting Man U for the day. Surely living in Essex is compulsory?
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    The tweets were clearly offensive

    However if a woman had tweeted “I’m scared of men. I was chased/stalked/attacked by a crazy man” I’d imagine she would receive significant sympathy.

    Conceptually what is the difference between the two?
    Wasn't the exCUK chap's one a bit racist too? And it referred to the woman as a whore, which might imply he's been trying to get a freebie in the red light district?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited April 2019
    Foxy said:

    Scripting is great.

    I've just downloaded 28MB of tweets from Change UK candidates' feeds.

    Read them with an open mind and you may learn something, or is that not your intention?
    I did have an open mind about TIG. I hoped that they might have some fresh ideas and bring some fresh energy to centre-left politics, just as (say) the Green Party do.

    But instead we get this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6954283/Change-UK-group-plots-destroy-Lib-Dems.html . It's dismal. Really dismal.

    That said, I've just found something that will probably torpedo the Conservatives' chances in my local seat this time round, so that'll do for now (not an embarrassing tweet, a development policy that'll screw over a lot of local people).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    Hate is destructive and you are better than that

    Exactly. Trump brings out the worst in both supporters and opponents. Even a gentle soul like me is coarsened. For better or for worse (and it's the latter) his influence is massive and global. He is a Great Man in that respect.

    Changing the subject for the sake of my blood pressure, we really do need to come to a settled view on this Meeks/Herdson dispute as to whether a Hard Brexit new Tory leader gets to be PM or not. The betting implications are potentially quite shocking.
  • Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    The tweets were clearly offensive

    However if a woman had tweeted “I’m scared of men. I was chased/stalked/attacked by a crazy man” I’d imagine she would receive significant sympathy.

    Conceptually what is the difference between the two?
    The racial angle.

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1121006003586203648
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    edited April 2019

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the will of the people (mysteriously capable of interpretation by the Leader), the labelling of others as traitors, quislings, enemies of the people and saboteurs because they hold different views and the use of martial language (picking up their rifle, World War Two references) may or many not be proto-fascist but they are certainly a degrading of Britain’s politics.
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
    Your use of it is risible and demeans you. You clearly need to have that pointed out.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    Much more likely that we'd drift into a GE with May as caretaker.

    Oh yessssss.
    You might not be saying that when Corbyn gets the blame for the ensuing mess.

    Edit: I'm right on the central point, though, am I not? Labour MPs are not going to vote for a caretaker PM who is not leader of the Labour Party.
    They might, if it humiliates the Tories, ends Brexit, and leads to a GE. A lot of them would if Corbyn retiring was a spin off benefit.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2019
    IanB2 said:

    Much more likely that we'd drift into a GE with May as caretaker.

    Oh yessssss.
    You might not be saying that when Corbyn gets the blame for the ensuing mess.

    Edit: I'm right on the central point, though, am I not? Labour MPs are not going to vote for a caretaker PM who is not leader of the Labour Party.
    They might, if it humiliates the Tories, ends Brexit, and leads to a GE. A lot of them would if Corbyn retiring was a spin off benefit.
    It would be a GE at which I imagine they wouldn't be Labour candidates.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    The tweets were clearly offensive

    However if a woman had tweeted “I’m scared of men. I was chased/stalked/attacked by a crazy man” I’d imagine she would receive significant sympathy.

    Conceptually what is the difference between the two?
    Men beating women happens more than it should, especially in the context of domestic abuse. I think that is a more valid fear than what the CUK candidate said (although generalising to all men would be a bit of a stretch).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Foxy said:

    Scripting is great.

    I've just downloaded 28MB of tweets from Change UK candidates' feeds.

    Read them with an open mind and you may learn something, or is that not your intention?
    I did have an open mind about TIG. I hoped that they might have some fresh ideas and bring some fresh energy to centre-left politics, just as (say) the Green Party do.

    But instead we get this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6954283/Change-UK-group-plots-destroy-Lib-Dems.html . It's dismal. Really dismal.

    That said, I've just found something that will probably torpedo the Conservatives' chances in my local seat this time round, so that'll do for now (not an embarrassing tweet, a development policy that'll screw over a lot of local people).
    Screwing over lots of local people is our raison d'etre!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    I am centrist, though I am quite happy to define that as what I am against. I am against fascism (in all it's forms including the Farage variety), Brexitism, I am against racism, I am against socialism, communism, Marxism, Corbynism. I generally favour the status quo over unnecessary change. Essentially I am a dying breed; a moderate conservative.

    So rather than rage against the machine you just like to keep it oiled and adequately serviced?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    umm, I think TSE posted this as a general interest story. The suggestion that she is standing in the euro elections is a frivolous one.

    I was responding to the points raised about some potential CUK MEPs not having been vetted well enough.
    The role of Guv of the Bank of England has gone out to headhunters.

    Word is they would like a woman.

    CV up to date?
    Carney shafted the best candidate when he lied about something she had told him
  • kinabalu said:

    Hate is destructive and you are better than that

    Exactly. Trump brings out the worst in both supporters and opponents. Even a gentle soul like me is coarsened. For better or for worse (and it's the latter) his influence is massive and global. He is a Great Man in that respect.

    Changing the subject for the sake of my blood pressure, we really do need to come to a settled view on this Meeks/Herdson dispute as to whether a Hard Brexit new Tory leader gets to be PM or not. The betting implications are potentially quite shocking.
    Trump, Farage etc infuriate me but I do not waste energy hating them

    As far as TM is concerned her successor may well be someone not tarred with the same extreme views. I can only hope, as I see a part of the conservative party move over to UKIP.

    I will not be joining them
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited April 2019

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the will of the people (mysteriously capable of interpretation by the Leader), the labelling of others as traitors, quislings, enemies of the people and saboteurs because they hold different views and the use of martial language (picking up their rifle, World War Two references) may or many not be proto-fascist but they are certainly a degrading of Britain’s politics.
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
    Your use of it is risible and demeans you. You clearly need to have that pointed out.
    No deal Leavers’ constant loyalty tests, shunning of the unclean and messianic belief in the redemptive powers of Brexit no matter what the human cost make it a sober description.

    You don’t like it? Tough. Show some interest in the human suffering your deranged policy position could cause.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the will of the people (mysteriously capable of interpretation by the Leader), the labelling of others as traitors, quislings, enemies of the people and saboteurs because they hold different views and the use of martial language (picking up their rifle, World War Two references) may or many not be proto-fascist but they are certainly a degrading of Britain’s politics.
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
    Your use of it is risible and demeans you. You clearly need to have that pointed out.
    No deal Leavers’ constant loyalty tests, shunning of the unclean and messianic belief in the redemptive powers of Brexit no matter what the human cost make it a sober description.

    You don’t like it? Tough. Show some interest in the human suffering your deranged policy position could cause.
    trip trap trip trap over the rickety bridge etc.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Charles, could you elaborate on that?
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the will of the people (mysteriously capable of interpretation by the Leader), the labelling of others as traitors, quislings, enemies of the people and saboteurs because they hold different views and the use of martial language (picking up their rifle, World War Two references) may or many not be proto-fascist but they are certainly a degrading of Britain’s politics.
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
    Your use of it is risible and demeans you. You clearly need to have that pointed out.
    No deal Leavers’ constant loyalty tests, shunning of the unclean and messianic belief in the redemptive powers of Brexit no matter what the human cost make it a sober description.

    You don’t like it? Tough. Show some interest in the human suffering your deranged policy position could cause.
    It's not my policy position. I've always supported May's deal.

    You just sound rather deranged using such a stupid epithet.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Another reason not to live in Essex.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1121016340867891200

    Your dimwitted prejudice about Essex, even in jest, is as narrow-minded as your equally dimwitted prejudice against France.

    Have you ever bobbed along the Stour at Dedham Vale, or rambled the northern reaches of Epping Forest on a sultry late-spring day?

    Get out more man.

    Essex is a wonderful place.
    To be fair, Sharon &Tracey International, as it is known in pilot circles, used to be a sleepy disused airport used only by the occasional passing light aircraft. People living nearby can hardly have imagined that some RyanAir wannabe would pitch up and start landing large airliners there.
    That RyanAir wannabe being Ryanair? (at least judging by the picture)
    Very fair challenge! I was thinking of Flybe, who were the earlier budget airline to focus upon the airport. My fondness for Southend is because it was my first solo landaway back more than ten years ago when I was qualifying for my PPL. My instructor said it was an easy one because if I saw sea beneath the aircraft I should turn back having obviously failed to find the airport. Either that or continue to Holland.
    Safer to train in a sea plane? :D
    Not if the plan is to return to an airfield adjacent to the M25
    That's North Weald, not Southend.
    In my case, it was Stapleford. Fact remains, no-one is ever going to take off in a seaplane from either.
    Very true. More to the point, land.
    I’d like to see someone take off in a seaplane from either! Maybe possible from the grass alongside the runways.
    Depends on how the rain has been recently, I suppose. We don't get that much is Essex.
    Indeed Essex is Britain's driest county I believe, and also has the most islands of any English county and therefore the longest coastline.

    St Osyth, inland from Clacton, is the driest settlement in the UK.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    This saga is perfect tonic for insomniacs.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Foxy said:

    Scripting is great.

    I've just downloaded 28MB of tweets from Change UK candidates' feeds.

    Read them with an open mind and you may learn something, or is that not your intention?
    I did have an open mind about TIG. I hoped that they might have some fresh ideas and bring some fresh energy to centre-left politics, just as (say) the Green Party do.

    But instead we get this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6954283/Change-UK-group-plots-destroy-Lib-Dems.html . It's dismal. Really dismal.

    That said, I've just found something that will probably torpedo the Conservatives' chances in my local seat this time round, so that'll do for now (not an embarrassing tweet, a development policy that'll screw over a lot of local people).
    I quite like some individual Tiggers, but the collective is a big disappointment. LD in the Locals and Green in the Euros for me. Young Greta has inspired me.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited April 2019

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the will of the people (mysteriously capable of interpretation by the Leader), the labelling of others as traitors, quislings, enemies of the people and saboteurs because they hold different views and the use of martial language (picking up their rifle, World War Two references) may or many not be proto-fascist but they are certainly a degrading of Britain’s politics.
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
    Your use of it is risible and demeans you. You clearly need to have that pointed out.
    No deal Leavers’ constant loyalty tests, shunning of the unclean and messianic belief in the redemptive powers of Brexit no matter what the human cost make it a sober description.

    You don’t like it? Tough. Show some interest in the human suffering your deranged policy position could cause.
    It's not my policy position. I've always supported May's deal.

    You just sound rather deranged using such a stupid epithet.
    I’m still awaiting a straight answer from Leavers as to how many avoidable deaths they think would be tolerable as a result of a No Deal Brexit. They seem to think it’s an unfair question, which is only conceivably the case if the answer is not zero.

    But the cleansing power of Brexit will no doubt wash away their sins.
  • Mr. Charles, could you elaborate on that?

    Hope Christian Legrande is not in the frame. That would be an appointment too far
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,137
    edited April 2019
    Like so much of ERG they are utterly useless at thinking

    TM or ANO will make no difference to the maths
  • Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    in which party list for Euro elections she will show up?



    She sounds like something out of Viz meets the Daily Mash.

    KUWAITI ACADEMIC CLAIMS GAY MEN HAVE AN 'ANAL WORM' THAT 'FEEDS ON SEMEN'
    Mariam Al-Sohel argued the anal worm makes gay men attracted to other men

    An academic in Kuwait has claimed she has a ‘cure’ for homosexuality saying gay men have an ‘anal worm’ that ‘feeds on semen’.

    Mariam Al-Sohel claimed on Scope TV that she believes there are four genders – male, female, feminine gay men and butch lesbians – and she explained how she has found a cure for being gay based on Islamic prophecy.

    She said: “I discovered therapeutic suppositories that curb the sexual urges of boys of the third gender.

    “As well as the fourth gender, which is butch lesbians. This is all science, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    https://attitude.co.uk/article/kuwaiti-academic-claims-gay-men-have-an-anal-worm-that-feeds-on-semen/20804/

    In what subject is her PhD and where did she she get it?
    Piss poor due diligence is the cause of this. I am not surprised.

    Due diligence on employees is usually one of banks' - and I expect other employers as well - weakest spots. The stories I could tell!

    People simply don't take this stuff seriously enough. And given the very tight timetable which CUK gave themselves I'm not surprised they are finding all sorts of stuff now which ought to have been picked up sooner.
    umm, I think TSE posted this as a general interest story. The suggestion that she is standing in the euro elections is a frivolous one.

    I was responding to the points raised about some potential CUK MEPs not having been vetted well enough.
    The role of Guv of the Bank of England has gone out to headhunters.

    Word is they would like a woman.

    CV up to date?
    Carney shafted the best candidate when he lied about something she had told him
    CH?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    edited April 2019
    Change UK can tackle the European elections or be a party for the long-term—but it can’t do both

    https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/independent-group-candidates-change-uk-logo-brexit
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Couldn't he find a spoon?

    Just showing off, I suspect. I see it all the time in the changing rooms at my leisure club. Not that exact trick, but similar stuff.
    What strange creatures men are.

    I am not going to ask what else goes on at your leisure club. Ignorance is bliss, I feel.
  • So looks like Crispin Blunt doesn't have the numbers to oust Speaker Bercow, who could have foreseen that?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    So looks like Crispin Blunt doesn't have the numbers to oust Speaker Bercow, who could have foreseen that?

    So another extension.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or p. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant politics.
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
    Your use of it is risible and demeans you. You clearly need to have that pointed out.
    No deal Leavers’ constant loyalty tests, shunning of the unclean and messianic belief in the redemptive powers of Brexit no matter what the human cost make it a sober description.

    You don’t like it? Tough. Show some interest in the human suffering your deranged policy position could cause.
    It's not my policy position. I've always supported May's deal.

    You just sound rather deranged using such a stupid epithet.
    I’m still awaiting a straight answer from Leavers as to how many avoidable deaths they think would be tolerable as a result of a No Deal Brexit. They seem to think it’s an unfair question, which is only conceivably the case if the answer is not zero.

    But the cleansing power of Brexit will no doubt wash away their sins.
    it;s just a stupid question

    we have avoidable deaths atm. the question should be about additional avoidable deaths

    I struggle to believe you are allowed to work on pensions
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or p. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant politics.
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
    Your use of it is risible and demeans you. You clearly need to have that pointed out.
    No deal Leavers’ constant loyalty tests, shunning of the unclean and messianic belief in the redemptive powers of Brexit no matter what the human cost make it a sober description.

    You don’t like it? Tough. Show some interest in the human suffering your deranged policy position could cause.
    It's not my policy position. I've always supported May's deal.

    You just sound rather deranged using such a stupid epithet.
    I’m still awaiting a straight answer from Leavers as to how many avoidable deaths they think would be tolerable as a result of a No Deal Brexit. They seem to think it’s an unfair question, which is only conceivably the case if the answer is not zero.

    But the cleansing power of Brexit will no doubt wash away their sins.
    it;s just a stupid question

    we have avoidable deaths atm. the question should be about additional avoidable deaths

    I struggle to believe you are allowed to work on pensions
    Learn to read.

    “ how many avoidable deaths... as a result of No Deal Brexit”.

    I struggle to believe that you can’t come up with a better answer than that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
    Your use of it is risible and demeans you. You clearly need to have that pointed out.
    No deal Leavers’ constant loyalty e.
    It's not my policy position. I've always supported May's deal.

    You just sound rather deranged using such a stupid epithet.
    I’m still awaiting a straight answer from Leavers as to how many avoidable deaths they think would be tolerable as a result of a No Deal Brexit. They seem to think it’s an unfair question, which is only conceivably the case if the answer is not zero.

    But the cleansing power of Brexit will no doubt wash away their sins.
    While Brexiteers are rather cavalier about the sufferings of others, I think that deaths are unlikely. A certain amount of administrative and logistic chaos certainly, but the reality of No Deal Brexit will be a damp squib. A bit like waking up with a hangover in piss stained trousers having insulted everyone at the office party.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:


    HYUFD said:
    It's great to see all these Tories outing themselves. I mean, I always suspected they were proto-fascists, but when you align yourself with Farage, the case is closed.
    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'
    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or p. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant politics.
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
    Your use of it is risible and demeans you. You clearly need to have that pointed out.
    No deal Leavers’ constant loyalty tests, shunning of the unclean and messianic belief in the redemptive powers of Brexit no matter what the human cost make it a sober description.

    You don’t like it? Tough. Show some interest in the human suffering your deranged policy position could cause.
    It's not my policy position. I've always supported May's deal.

    You just sound rather deranged using such a stupid epithet.
    I’m still awaiting a straight answer from Leavers as to how many avoidable deaths they think would be tolerable as a result of a No Deal Brexit. They seem to think it’s an unfair question, which is only conceivably the case if the answer is not zero.

    But the cleansing power of Brexit will no doubt wash away their sins.
    it;s just a stupid question

    we have avoidable deaths atm. the question should be about additional avoidable deaths

    I struggle to believe you are allowed to work on pensions
    This thread is really circling the plughole.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Mr. Charles, could you elaborate on that?

    Hope Christian Legrande is not in the frame. That would be an appointment too far
    Claude Juncker, just for the LOLs :)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:



    The fascists are going to get a lot of votes at the upcoming election. Just sayin'

    I wonder what total percentage the parties led by Corbyn, Farage and Batten will get at the Euro elections...
    Using terms like fascist or proto-fascist for politicians who run robust democratic campaigns and appeal to millions of centrist voters - the sort who often vote Tory or Labour - is a bad use of language and does not advance an argument. People keep forgetting that our political debate is in divisive turmoil because the centrist population has been split (16m - 17m approx.) on a binary issue. This isn't about fascism or anything like it. Calm down.
    The constant appeals to the
    Labeling people as members of Death Cults in the age of ISIS is just fine and dandy though.
    No deal Leavers show all the markings of a cult and are completely indifferent to any chaos, death and destruction that it will cause. Hence, death cult.
    Your use of it is risible and demeans you. You clearly need to have that pointed out.
    No deal Leavers’ constant loyalty e.
    It's not my policy position. I've always supported May's deal.

    You just sound rather deranged using such a stupid epithet.
    I’m still awaiting a straight answer from Leavers as to how many avoidable deaths they think would be tolerable as a result of a No Deal Brexit. They seem to think it’s an unfair question, which is only conceivably the case if the answer is not zero.

    But the cleansing power of Brexit will no doubt wash away their sins.
    While Brexiteers are rather cavalier about the sufferings of others, I think that deaths are unlikely. A certain amount of administrative and logistic chaos certainly, but the reality of No Deal Brexit will be a damp squib. A bit like waking up with a hangover in piss stained trousers having insulted everyone at the office party.
    Perhaps. That is not the point of the question. It is to obtain a metric as to what limits Leavers would have before they rethought and concluded they were mistaken.

    The truth, of course, is that they would never rethink, no matter what carnage. It’s a cult not a political position.
This discussion has been closed.