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kle4

These are new allegations? Even I was aware Biden was handsy, as the euphemism goes. But I suppose even what is known can come back to haunt you.

kle4

isam said:

kle4 said:

I don't see any difference in how the Tories, Labour and all the parties are acting to be honest. Each is dogmatically insisting the other must come over to their side, and pretend that is compromise. They're all just demanding the other do as they say, and getting on a high horse about it.

It's quite pathetic, if impressive, how much the party discipline has held up. It's creaked at times, on specific aspects, but largely been maintained, to all our detriment. And we know very stupid and partisan reasons have been at the forefront of peoples's minds, because there are some who would refuse to vote for any Corbyn Brexit, and those who will refuse to vote for a May Brexit, for example claiming May resigning is a reason to vote for or against the WA, for Tories and Labour respetively. Blatantly irrelevant to the WA, and even the aftermath given the parliamentary maths doesn't change, and yet people claim to be serious and say such a reason changes their mind. More excuses for what they always planned to do, either vote for reluctantly or refuse to.

The referendum was the one time that petty party politics was put to one side, and yet here we are with tribal silliness getting in the way, they cant help themselves

It's what they know, it is comfortable and easy for both of them.

Pulpstar

Sod the #metooers Joe can win

dyedwoolie

Creepy uncle Joe. Hes a goner. There's plenty of videos that will do the rounds and gain traction by notoriety now a headline accusation is out.

williamglenn

The Creepy Joe Biden stuff has been out there for years. I'm amazed people ever thought he was a viable candidate or that he wouldn't have got destroyed by Trump had he run.

This article is from 2015.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/02/18/what-are-we-going-to-do-about-creepy-uncle-joe-biden/?utm_term=.3d9f116eb17e

kle4

williamglenn said:

The Creepy Joe Biden stuff has been out there for years. I'm amazed people ever thought he was a viable candidate or that he wouldn't have got destroyed by Trump had he run.

This article is from 2015.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/02/18/what-are-we-going-to-do-about-creepy-uncle-joe-biden/?utm_term=.3d9f116eb17e

Not sure Trump is the person best placed to capitalise on such a story, although as you say it is relatively well known. I'm sure I saw a Daily Show piece on it years ago.

williamglenn

kle4 said:

williamglenn said:

The Creepy Joe Biden stuff has been out there for years. I'm amazed people ever thought he was a viable candidate or that he wouldn't have got destroyed by Trump had he run.

This article is from 2015.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/02/18/what-are-we-going-to-do-about-creepy-uncle-joe-biden/?utm_term=.3d9f116eb17e

Not sure Trump is the person best placed to capitalise on such a story, although as you say it is relatively well known. I'm sure I saw a Daily Show piece on it years ago.

Shamelessness never stopped Trump before. He even managed to turn the Access Hollywood tape into an attack on Hillary Clinton for covering up Bill's behaviour.

dixiedean

Regardless of Biden or the allegations, we need to move on from the Boomer generation. This is true in the UK too.
The economy and ways of working, and indeed living changed beyond all recognition in the past 20 years.
We need new thinking from a new generation.

kinabalu

Good. I don't want Biden. I'm sticking with Kamala Harris. She can count on me.

kle4

dixiedean said:

Regardless of Biden or the allegations, we need to move on from the Boomer generation. This is true in the UK too.
The economy and ways of working, and indeed living changed beyond all recognition in the past 20 years.
We need new thinking from a new generation.

I'm not opposed to that, as such, but I do think people pinning their hopes on a new generation being a guaranteed improvement because 'times have moved on' or the like, are setting themselves up for disappointment. There's no shortage of people who are from the younger generation who people very much do not like. Indeed, our PMs were younger not that long ago.

brendan16

williamglenn said:

kle4 said:

williamglenn said:

The Creepy Joe Biden stuff has been out there for years. I'm amazed people ever thought he was a viable candidate or that he wouldn't have got destroyed by Trump had he run.

This article is from 2015.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/02/18/what-are-we-going-to-do-about-creepy-uncle-joe-biden/?utm_term=.3d9f116eb17e

Not sure Trump is the person best placed to capitalise on such a story, although as you say it is relatively well known. I'm sure I saw a Daily Show piece on it years ago.

Shamelessness never stopped Trump before. He even managed to turn the Access Hollywood tape into an attack on Hillary Clinton for covering up Bill's behaviour.

Of course the difference in this case is that it is all over you tube on video. At best it is being overly familiar - at worst it is really creepy e.g. involving lets just say 'younger women' at a swearing in ceremony for new senators. If he thinks he can get away with that in public when the cameras are on.......

How Biden has got this far without it being brought up in the mainstream media given the metoo movement is beyond me.

dixiedean

kle4 said:

dixiedean said:

Regardless of Biden or the allegations, we need to move on from the Boomer generation. This is true in the UK too.
The economy and ways of working, and indeed living changed beyond all recognition in the past 20 years.
We need new thinking from a new generation.

I'm not opposed to that, as such, but I do think people pinning their hopes on a new generation being a guaranteed improvement because 'times have moved on' or the like, are setting themselves up for disappointment. There's no shortage of people who are from the younger generation who people very much do not like. Indeed, our PMs were younger not that long ago.

Yes I get that. However, such behaviour towards women and others, is, and quite rightly, totally unacceptable to my mind. It seemed to be almost de rigeur for powerful men not that long ago.
The somewhat small-minded, curtain-twitching, foreigner- suspicious provincialism or Union based class conflict represented by the overwhelmingly aged memberships of our 2 main parties are equally totally alien.
Many simply have no experience of working in a post-GFC environment.
Which is not to say that the next generation will be better. But doubt they could be a lot worse.

matt

dixiedean said:

Regardless of Biden or the allegations, we need to move on from the Boomer generation. This is true in the UK too.
The economy and ways of working, and indeed living changed beyond all recognition in the past 20 years.
We need new thinking from a new generation.

I’ve said before and I hold to the view that this is the generation that just won’t go away. They want to drain the well dry and, preferably, poison it. Because nobody will ever be as great as them.

HYUFD

If the allegations against Biden force him to pull out of a potential candidacy that is great news for Bernie Sanders as he leads both most national and most state polls, including the key first voting state of Iowa, if Biden is not a candidate. The betting makes Sanders favourite for the Democratic nomination without Biden as the above chart shows.

Sanders is currently runner up to Biden across the board based on demographics and while Sanders leads with Democratic primary voters under 45, Biden has had the lead with those over 45.

'Men, women, whites, non-whites, college graduates, and non-graduate Democratic primary voters all put Biden first and Sanders second. Sanders has the edge among those under age 45, while Biden is first for those 45 and over.'
https://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2019/03/poll-biden-31-sanders-23-harris-8-orourke-8/

Indeed Sanders is Biden voters' second choice, only reinforcing the point.

'The second choice of a plurality of Sanders voters was Biden, while the same was true in reverse, even though the two politicians have radically different politics. The leading second pick among Warren voters was Sanders.'
https://theintercept.com/2019/03/06/bernie-sanders-black-voters-2020/

Theuniondivvie

kle4 said:

williamglenn said:

The Creepy Joe Biden stuff has been out there for years. I'm amazed people ever thought he was a viable candidate or that he wouldn't have got destroyed by Trump had he run.

This article is from 2015.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/02/18/what-are-we-going-to-do-about-creepy-uncle-joe-biden/?utm_term=.3d9f116eb17e

Not sure Trump is the person best placed to capitalise on such a story, although as you say it is relatively well known. I'm sure I saw a Daily Show piece on it years ago.

Regardless that Trump is perfectly capable of accusing people of doing the things of which he's accused (& likely guilty of), the general vibe he's giving off is that the 'full exoneration' by Mueller includes absolutely everything down to pulling wings of that fly when he was five years old.

Pulpstar

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/03/29/harris_donors_past_raises_money-influence_questions.html

Pulpstar

dixiedean said:

kle4 said:

dixiedean said:

Regardless of Biden or the allegations, we need to move on from the Boomer generation. This is true in the UK too.
The economy and ways of working, and indeed living changed beyond all recognition in the past 20 years.
We need new thinking from a new generation.

I'm not opposed to that, as such, but I do think people pinning their hopes on a new generation being a guaranteed improvement because 'times have moved on' or the like, are setting themselves up for disappointment. There's no shortage of people who are from the younger generation who people very much do not like. Indeed, our PMs were younger not that long ago.

Yes I get that. However, such behaviour towards women and others, is, and quite rightly, totally unacceptable to my mind. It seemed to be almost de rigeur for powerful men not that long ago.
The somewhat small-minded, curtain-twitching, foreigner- suspicious provincialism or Union based class conflict represented by the overwhelmingly aged memberships of our 2 main parties are equally totally alien.
Many simply have no experience of working in a post-GFC environment.
Which is not to say that the next generation will be better. But doubt they could be a lot worse.

What's a GFC

TheScreamingEagles

This and his age were the main reasons I laid Biden*.

Bernie Sanders has some MeToo issues although he didn’t do the bad things but it does look bad for him.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-apologizes-for-sexual-harassment-in-2016-campaign.html

*Get your minds out of the gutter.

isam

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?s=21

brendan16

TheScreamingEagles said:

This and his age were the main reasons I laid Biden*.

Bernie Sanders has some MeToo issues although he didn’t do the bad things but it does look bad for him.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-apologizes-for-sexual-harassment-in-2016-campaign.html

*Get your minds out of the gutter.

Bernie didn't commit the alleged harassment personally though - which is the rather major difference!

Andrew

Pulpstar said:

What's a GFC

Gordon's Financial Crash. Or Gillingham Football Club.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/jameskirkup/status/1112004828450996224

HYUFD

TheScreamingEagles said:

This and his age were the main reasons I laid Biden*.

Bernie Sanders has some MeToo issues although he didn’t do the bad things but it does look bad for him.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-apologizes-for-sexual-harassment-in-2016-campaign.html

*Get your minds out of the gutter.

There were no allegations against Sanders personally, only against a few of his 2016 staff who have all left so not the same situation as Biden.

If Biden is out Sanders will be clear favourite for the Democratic nomination as the polling shows most Biden voters will shift to Sanders as their second choice

JackW

Pulpstar said:

What's a GFC

Geoffrey F***ing Cox

kinabalu

isam said:

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

Rape is now out?

OldKingCole

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This and his age were the main reasons I laid Biden*.

Bernie Sanders has some MeToo issues although he didn’t do the bad things but it does look bad for him.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-apologizes-for-sexual-harassment-in-2016-campaign.html

*Get your minds out of the gutter.

There were no allegations against Sanders personally, only against his staff who have all left so not the same situation as Biden.

If Biden is out Sanders will be clear favourite for the Democratic nomination as the polling shows most Biden voters will shift to Sanders as their second choice

It's a long, long trail. Remember, inter alia, Howard Dean.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1112004306788667392

brendan16

isam said:

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?s=21

Nearly 30% of men aged 18-30 not having sex is quite a shocking figure - particularly as its nearly double the figure for women. Who are the women having relations with?

Back in 1989 the percentage was half that and the levels for both sexes pretty similar.

There may be other factors than metoo of course e.g. the cost of housing meaning fewer people can afford their own place. If you are still living with mum and dad or in small shared rental flats - its a bit harder to arrange?

MikeSmithson

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This and his age were the main reasons I laid Biden*.

Bernie Sanders has some MeToo issues although he didn’t do the bad things but it does look bad for him.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-apologizes-for-sexual-harassment-in-2016-campaign.html

*Get your minds out of the gutter.

There were no allegations against Sanders personally, only against a few of 2016 his staff who have all left so not the same situation as Biden.

If Biden is out Sanders will be clear favourite for the Democratic nomination as the polling shows most Biden voters will shift to Sanders as their second choice

Except he won't. He's too old and grouchy. He's just got higher name recognition in the same way that Jeb Bush was red hot favourite for the GOP nomination at this stage head of WH2016

WhisperingOracle

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jameskirkup/status/1112004828450996224

Tallies with I thought earlier about a lot of more Remainer Tories seeming to see this as a litmus test.

Cyclefree

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/islamic-bigotry-has-been-fuelled-by-the-left-fqtvhhq9p

Janice Turner of the Times finally catching up with PB ...... http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/03/21/rendering-unto-caesar/

Theuniondivvie

Finally Leave get's a decent crowd.

https://twitter.com/AngryScotland/status/1111997533096677377

HYUFD

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jameskirkup/status/1112004828450996224

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

Scott_P

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

WhisperingOracle

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1112004306788667392

Judging from the reaction to Grieve on the one hand, and what sounds like this co-ordinated no-deal push on the other hand, it looks as though next week may well be one of the most critical patches the Conservative Party will ever go through for its integrity.

Meanwhile, the integrity of the country as a four-part unitary state has never been in more doubt since 1945..

BannedInParis

brendan16 said:

isam said:

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?s=21

Nearly 30% of men aged 18-30 not having sex is quite a shocking figure - particularly as its nearly double the figure for women. Who are the women having relations with?

Back in 1989 the percentage was half that and the levels for both sexes pretty similar.

There may be other factors than metoo of course e.g. the cost of housing meaning fewer people can afford their own place. If you are still living with mum and dad or in small shared rental flats - its a bit harder to arrange?

There is a massive asymmetry in sexual attractiveness recorded in many different studies and media. This is just a reflection of that.

kinabalu

Theuniondivvie said:

Regardless that Trump is perfectly capable of accusing people of doing the things of which he's accused (& likely guilty of), the general vibe he's giving off is that the 'full exoneration' by Mueller includes absolutely everything down to pulling wings of that fly when he was five years old.

When he was 5? You're assuming he's grown out of that?

IanB2

HYUFD said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jameskirkup/status/1112004828450996224

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually indecreasingly the majority of the country

Corrected for you

isam

brendan16 said:

isam said:

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?s=21

Nearly 30% of men aged 18-30 not having sex is quite a shocking figure - particularly as its nearly double the figure for women. Who are the women having relations with?

Back in 1989 the percentage was half that and the levels for both sexes pretty similar.

There may be other factors than metoo of course e.g. the cost of housing meaning fewer people can afford their own place. If you are still living with mum and dad or in small shared rental flats - its a bit harder to arrange?

Yes I only mentioned that as one of the possible factors because it is the topic of the header. Others were less men of that age in work, more live w parents etc

HYUFD

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This and his age were the main reasons I laid Biden*.

Bernie Sanders has some MeToo issues although he didn’t do the bad things but it does look bad for him.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-apologizes-for-sexual-harassment-in-2016-campaign.html

*Get your minds out of the gutter.

There were no allegations against Sanders personally, only against his staff who have all left so not the same situation as Biden.

If Biden is out Sanders will be clear favourite for the Democratic nomination as the polling shows most Biden voters will shift to Sanders as their second choice

It's a long, long trail. Remember, inter alia, Howard Dean.

Howard Dean was a long time ago and there is no John Kerry with the establishment ties and fundraising prowess who is going to beat him and as he showed in 2016 Sanders is a far better campaigner than Dean. If Sanders wins Iowa and NH as is likely if Biden is out he will almost certainly be nominee and it will be a Trump v Sanders general election

HYUFD

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This and his age were the main reasons I laid Biden*.

Bernie Sanders has some MeToo issues although he didn’t do the bad things but it does look bad for him.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-apologizes-for-sexual-harassment-in-2016-campaign.html

*Get your minds out of the gutter.

There were no allegations against Sanders personally, only against a few of 2016 his staff who have all left so not the same situation as Biden.

If Biden is out Sanders will be clear favourite for the Democratic nomination as the polling shows most Biden voters will shift to Sanders as their second choice

Except he won't. He's too old and grouchy. He's just got higher name recognition in the same way that Jeb Bush was red hot favourite for the GOP nomination at this stage head of WH2016

No, no, no. Just accept the US is now facing the same populist wave we and much of the world is seeing, Sanders will sweep the Democratic primaries minus Biden in much the same way Trump swept the GOP primaries, in fact both Sanders and Trump are both in their 70s so age is irrelevant.

Jeb Bush was a dull, establishment moderate when what his party wanted was a populist, charismatic conservative much as Sanders is a populist, charismatic, left liberal so no comparison. Indeed as soon as Trump declared he leapt to the top of GOP primary polls and held that lead through to the primaries.

In fact there is a strong possibility we will be having a Boris v Corbyn contest here in much the same way as the US will have Trump v Sanders

AlastairMeeks

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This and his age were the main reasons I laid Biden*.

Bernie Sanders has some MeToo issues although he didn’t do the bad things but it does look bad for him.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-apologizes-for-sexual-harassment-in-2016-campaign.html

*Get your minds out of the gutter.

There were no allegations against Sanders personally, only against a few of 2016 his staff who have all left so not the same situation as Biden.

If Biden is out Sanders will be clear favourite for the Democratic nomination as the polling shows most Biden voters will shift to Sanders as their second choice

Except he won't. He's too old and grouchy. He's just got higher name recognition in the same way that Jeb Bush was red hot favourite for the GOP nomination at this stage head of WH2016

This has been a market with absurdly short favourite after absurdly short favourite. This looks set to persist.

HYUFD

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jameskirkup/status/1112004828450996224

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually indecreasingly the majority of the country

Corrected for you

Given most Labour voters voted Remain at least 3/4 of the country voted Leave or for Corbyn and indeed would probably still do so again

felix

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

HYUFD

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

The Deal was still leaving the EU not revoking Art 50 so that does not change the point and most Leavers and Tory voters would still back No Deal over Remain in the polls anyway

HYUFD

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

williamglenn

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1112011627312934913

OldKingCole

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

WhisperingOracle

The talk of national unity governments from people like Kirkup on the one hand, and no-deal campaigns by more than half of Tory members on the other, are so far apart that this is the kind of disconnected talk at the extreme ends of the spectrum that usually presages and predicts a split. The Tories will be incredibly lucky to get through the week without one.

IanB2

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

JackW

AlastairMeeks said:

This has been a market with absurdly short favourite after absurdly short favourite. This looks set to persist.

Just asking for a particularly modest Buckingham friend, but are those who admire the Speaker devotees of an "absurdly short favourite"?

HYUFD

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

A YouGov poll from 24th to 24th March 2019 ie last week had 39% of Tory voters wanting to Leave the EU without a Deal compared to just 20% of Tory voters who wanted to Stay in the EU. 18% of Tory voters wanted to Leave the EU with an alternative Deal and 15% of Tory voters wanted to Leave the EU with May's Deal

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hga0kq3zd5/Internal_190325_Brexit_am_w.pdf

Across the country as a whole 42% wanted to Remain in the EU, 23% to Leave the EU with No Deal, 13% to Leave the EU with an alternative Deal and 9% to Leave the EU with May's Deal.

So No Deal is the most popular Leave option but Leave only beats Remain with No Deal and Leave with Deal backers combined

HYUFD

WhisperingOracle said:

The talk of national unity governments from people like Kirkup on the one hand, and no-deal campaigns by more than half of Tory members on the other, are so far apart that this is the kind of disconnected talk at the extreme ends of the spectrum that usually presages and predicts a split. The Tories will be incredibly lucky to get through the week without one.

Given 8 Labour MPs and 3 Tory MPs have already defected to CUK/TIG, both main parties are already split anyway, it is just the extent of the split that may get bigger but Blairites in Labour and Remainers in the Tory Party are now clearly a minority

isam

https://twitter.com/brainmagazine/status/1110916970558513153?s=21

IanB2

The trouble with Brexit is that it is obscuring what is surely the biggest question facing us this weekend:

The big question for Line of Duty’s Ted Hastings: ‘Am I the bad guy now?’

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/mar/30/line-of-duty-ted-hastings-adrian-dunbar-am-i-the-bad-guy-now

anothernick

isam said:

brendan16 said:

isam said:

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?s=21

Nearly 30% of men aged 18-30 not having sex is quite a shocking figure - particularly as its nearly double the figure for women. Who are the women having relations with?

Back in 1989 the percentage was half that and the levels for both sexes pretty similar.

There may be other factors than metoo of course e.g. the cost of housing meaning fewer people can afford their own place. If you are still living with mum and dad or in small shared rental flats - its a bit harder to arrange?

Yes I only mentioned that as one of the possible factors because it is the topic of the header. Others were less men of that age in work, more live w parents etc

Greater use of online porn perhaps?

Sad if true.

felix

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

As I said - if only 51% of Tory voters want no deal therein lies ruin for the party. How can everyone else see what you cannot?

WhisperingOracle

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

The talk of national unity governments from people like Kirkup on the one hand, and no-deal campaigns by more than half of Tory members on the other, are so far apart that this is the kind of disconnected talk at the extreme ends of the spectrum that usually presages and predicts a split. The Tories will be incredibly lucky to get through the week without one.

Given 8 Labour MPs and 3 Tory MPs have already defected to CUK/TIG, both main parties are already split anyway, it is just the extent of the split that may get bigger but Blairites in Labour and Remainers in the Tory Party are now clearly a minority

If you look at those MPs and journalists who've already publicly aligned themselves with Grieve, you already have the first outlines of the next split. A big question in the Tory parliamentary party is how many "quiet remainers" are left, behind the familiar figures of Grieve and Clarke. There's certainly more than three or four, and those opposed to no-deal may be much greater. In the government alone you have Rudd, Liddington, Hammond, Clark, Gauke, Mundell, etc.

solarflare

I think we're going to have to start thinking of some good new political party names, we might need them.

IanB2

solarflare said:

I think we're going to have to start thinking of some good new political party names, we might need them.

I see Change.org.uk aren't happy about Change UK and are threatening legal action.

Cyclefree

WhisperingOracle said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1112004306788667392

Judging from the reaction to Grieve on the one hand, and what sounds like this co-ordinated no-deal push on the other hand, it looks as though next week may well be one of the most critical patches the Conservative Party will ever go through for its integrity.

Meanwhile, the integrity of the country as a four-part unitary state has never been in more doubt since 1945..

Tories putting party ahead of country, I see.

anothernick

WhisperingOracle said:

The talk of national unity governments from people like Kirkup on the one hand, and no-deal campaigns by more than half of Tory members on the other, are so far apart that this is the kind of disconnected talk at the extreme ends of the spectrum that usually presages and predicts a split. The Tories will be incredibly lucky to get through the week without one.

They have split already in all but name. The ERG have almost all the attributes of a separate party - their own whip, policy positions diametrically opposed to those of the government and their own leadership team. All they need is members outside parliament and they're ready to go.

HYUFD

anothernick said:

isam said:

brendan16 said:

isam said:

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?s=21

Nearly 30% of men aged 18-30 not having sex is quite a shocking figure - particularly as its nearly double the figure for women. Who are the women having relations with?

Back in 1989 the percentage was half that and the levels for both sexes pretty similar.

There may be other factors than metoo of course e.g. the cost of housing meaning fewer people can afford their own place. If you are still living with mum and dad or in small shared rental flats - its a bit harder to arrange?

Yes I only mentioned that as one of the possible factors because it is the topic of the header. Others were less men of that age in work, more live w parents etc

Greater use of online porn perhaps?

Sad if true.

That and more time spent online generally, more sex education and the MeToo movement and emphasis on consent, fear of intimacy and concerns over body image and people living at home longer and the need to build a future first all factors

https://www.tcsnetwork.co.uk/why-are-millennials-having-less-sex/

HYUFD

felix said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

As I said - if only 51% of Tory voters want no deal therein lies ruin for the party. How can everyone else see what you cannot?

That is a majority of the party. As I posted earlier only 20% of Tory voters want Remain, the rest want to leave with a Deal, so 80% of Tory voters want Brexit

OldKingCole

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

A YouGov poll from 24th to 24th March 2019 ie last week had 39% of Tory voters wanting to Leave the EU without a Deal compared to just 20% of Tory voters who wanted to Stay in the EU. 18% of Tory voters wanted to Leave the EU with an alternative Deal and 15% of Tory voters wanted to Leave the EU with May's Deal

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hga0kq3zd5/Internal_190325_Brexit_am_w.pdf

Across the country as a whole 42% wanted to Remain in the EU, 23% to Leave the EU with No Deal, 13% to Leave the EU with an alternative Deal and 9% to Leave the EU with May's Deal.

So No Deal is the most popular Leave option but Leave only beats Remain with No Deal and Leave with Deal backers combined

Yes, I know all that; what I don't understand, apart from the hysteria whipped up by the Express and (nowadays to a lesser extent) the Mail, why any one does. I cannot, I really cannot, see any advantages whatsoever, particularly in the short-term, and as a lifelong Liberal/liberal I'm accustomed to trying to see other points of view.

HYUFD

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

The talk of national unity governments from people like Kirkup on the one hand, and no-deal campaigns by more than half of Tory members on the other, are so far apart that this is the kind of disconnected talk at the extreme ends of the spectrum that usually presages and predicts a split. The Tories will be incredibly lucky to get through the week without one.

Given 8 Labour MPs and 3 Tory MPs have already defected to CUK/TIG, both main parties are already split anyway, it is just the extent of the split that may get bigger but Blairites in Labour and Remainers in the Tory Party are now clearly a minority

If you look at those MPs and journalists who've already publicly aligned themselves with Grieve, you already have the first outlines of the next split. A big question in the Tory parliamentary party is how many "quiet remainers" are left, behind the familiar figures of Grieve and Clarke. There's certainly more than three or four, and those opposed to no-deal may be much greater. In the government alone you have Rudd, Liddington, Hammond, Clark, Gauke, Mundell, etc.

It is possible we could see CUK/TIG become a UK En Marche if say Raab or Boris succeeds May as Tory Leader and Corbyn stays Labour Leader

OnlyLivingBoy

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

It's the baby boomers, selfish and irresponsible to the last. Can't we organise a free cruise for them all and then run the referendum again while they're all in the Med somewhere, reading the Daily Mail and talking about the war they weren't even alive to see.

HYUFD

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

A YouGov poll from 24th to 24th March 2019 ie last week had 39% of Tory voters wanting to Leave the EU without a Deal compared to just 20% of Tory voters who wanted to Stay in the EU. 18% of Tory voters wanted to Leave the EU with an alternative Deal and 15% of Tory voters wanted to Leave the EU with May's Deal

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hga0kq3zd5/Internal_190325_Brexit_am_w.pdf

Across the country as a whole 42% wanted to Remain in the EU, 23% to Leave the EU with No Deal, 13% to Leave the EU with an alternative Deal and 9% to Leave the EU with May's Deal.

So No Deal is the most popular Leave option but Leave only beats Remain with No Deal and Leave with Deal backers combined

Yes, I know all that; what I don't understand, apart from the hysteria whipped up by the Express and (nowadays to a lesser extent) the Mail, why any one does. I cannot, I really cannot, see any advantages whatsoever, particularly in the short-term, and as a lifelong Liberal/liberal I'm accustomed to trying to see other points of view.

As No Deal ensures the whole UK leaves the EU, the Single Market and the Customs Union, for hard Brexiteers that comes first

WhisperingOracle

Cyclefree said:

WhisperingOracle said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1112004306788667392

Judging from the reaction to Grieve on the one hand, and what sounds like this co-ordinated no-deal push on the other hand, it looks as though next week may well be one of the most critical patches the Conservative Party will ever go through for its integrity.

Meanwhile, the integrity of the country as a four-part unitary state has never been in more doubt since 1945..

Tories putting party ahead of country, I see.

Indeed.

anothernick said:

WhisperingOracle said:

The talk of national unity governments from people like Kirkup on the one hand, and no-deal campaigns by more than half of Tory members on the other, are so far apart that this is the kind of disconnected talk at the extreme ends of the spectrum that usually presages and predicts a split. The Tories will be incredibly lucky to get through the week without one.

They have split already in all but name. The ERG have almost all the attributes of a separate party - their own whip, policy positions diametrically opposed to those of the government and their own leadership team. All they need is members outside parliament and they're ready to go.

Indeed also, but up to now the split hasn't cut through cabinet or government beyond briefings, potentially knocking the self-same government aside, because of tacit understandings on no-deal. This may be the week when it does.

OldKingCole

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

I'm a pensioner with what I'm fairly sure is a safe fixed income, but I have a son who is having a reducing income because his final commission depends on the exchange rate and another whose firm is seriously considering moving part at least of their their HQ operation out of UK. And that's before I start on the effect on my grandchildren, both working and still in Education.

IanB2

OldKingCole said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

I'm a pensioner with what I'm fairly sure is a safe fixed income, but I have a son who is having a reducing income because his final commission depends on the exchange rate and another whose firm is seriously considering moving part at least of their their HQ operation out of UK. And that's before I start on the effect on my grandchildren, both working and still in Education.

Kudos to you. But you only have to look at the data to see how unusual you are

OldKingCole

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

A YouGov poll from 24th to 24th March 2019 ie last week had 39% of Tory voters wanting to Leave the EU without a Deal compared to just 20% of Tory voters who wanted to Stay in the EU. 18% of Tory voters wanted to Leave the EU with an alternative Deal and 15% of Tory voters wanted to Leave the EU with May's Deal

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hga0kq3zd5/Internal_190325_Brexit_am_w.pdf

Across the country as a whole 42% wanted to Remain in the EU, 23% to Leave the EU with No Deal, 13% to Leave the EU with an alternative Deal and 9% to Leave the EU with May's Deal.

So No Deal is the most popular Leave option but Leave only beats Remain with No Deal and Leave with Deal backers combined

Yes, I know all that; what I don't understand, apart from the hysteria whipped up by the Express and (nowadays to a lesser extent) the Mail, why any one does. I cannot, I really cannot, see any advantages whatsoever, particularly in the short-term, and as a lifelong Liberal/liberal I'm accustomed to trying to see other points of view.

As No Deal ensures the whole UK leaves the EU, the Single Market and the Customs Union, for hard Brexiteers that comes first

Yes, yes, I understand all that. I just don't understand why they want to ruin themselves and make a laughing stock of UK.

Sean_F

OnlyLivingBoy said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

It's the baby boomers, selfish and irresponsible to the last. Can't we organise a free cruise for them all and then run the referendum again while they're all in the Med somewhere, reading the Daily Mail and talking about the war they weren't even alive to see.

Maybe we should restrict the franchise to the upper middle classes.

IanB2

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

The talk of national unity governments from people like Kirkup on the one hand, and no-deal campaigns by more than half of Tory members on the other, are so far apart that this is the kind of disconnected talk at the extreme ends of the spectrum that usually presages and predicts a split. The Tories will be incredibly lucky to get through the week without one.

Given 8 Labour MPs and 3 Tory MPs have already defected to CUK/TIG, both main parties are already split anyway, it is just the extent of the split that may get bigger but Blairites in Labour and Remainers in the Tory Party are now clearly a minority

If you look at those MPs and journalists who've already publicly aligned themselves with Grieve, you already have the first outlines of the next split. A big question in the Tory parliamentary party is how many "quiet remainers" are left, behind the familiar figures of Grieve and Clarke. There's certainly more than three or four, and those opposed to no-deal may be much greater. In the government alone you have Rudd, Liddington, Hammond, Clark, Gauke, Mundell, etc.

It is possible we could see CUK/TIG become a UK En Marche if say Raab or Boris succeeds May as Tory Leader and Corbyn stays Labour Leader

That is what *ought* to be happening.

And I would be early to the barricades.

But the evidence I would be followed by many isn't appearing. Yet, at least.

Sean_F

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1112011627312934913

That sounds quite lively, but no more so than plenty of political meetings I've been to.

Pulpstar

AlastairMeeks said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This and his age were the main reasons I laid Biden*.

Bernie Sanders has some MeToo issues although he didn’t do the bad things but it does look bad for him.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-apologizes-for-sexual-harassment-in-2016-campaign.html

*Get your minds out of the gutter.

There were no allegations against Sanders personally, only against a few of 2016 his staff who have all left so not the same situation as Biden.

If Biden is out Sanders will be clear favourite for the Democratic nomination as the polling shows most Biden voters will shift to Sanders as their second choice

Except he won't. He's too old and grouchy. He's just got higher name recognition in the same way that Jeb Bush was red hot favourite for the GOP nomination at this stage head of WH2016

This has been a market with absurdly short favourite after absurdly short favourite. This looks set to persist.

Sure, but I want Biden to announce before I lay him.

brendan16

Sean_F said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1112011627312934913

That sounds quite lively, but no more so than plenty of political meetings I've been to.

Lively yes and a robust meeting - but that clip didn't suggest anything menacing beyond some barracking that would have seemed mild for the House of Commons.

I also love the way its called 'secret footage'. Its a public meeting of local Tories in Buckinghamshire with hundreds of people attending who have phones.

Its hardly the journalistc equivalent of being smuggled into Syria to do some reporting in ISIS held territory!

Chris

isam said:

https://twitter.com/brainmagazine/status/1110916970558513153?s=21

A milder form of ERGING - continually telling everyone you want to leave, but repeatedly breaking your own legs so that you can't even walk.

felix

HYUFD said:

felix said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

As I said - if only 51% of Tory voters want no deal therein lies ruin for the party. How can everyone else see what you cannot?

That is a majority of the party. As I posted earlier only 20% of Tory voters want Remain, the rest want to leave with a Deal, so 80% of Tory voters want Brexit

Yup 51% want no deal and the party cannot win a majority on that basis. 51% is not really the 'critical mass' you need.

OnlyLivingBoy

Sean_F said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

It's the baby boomers, selfish and irresponsible to the last. Can't we organise a free cruise for them all and then run the referendum again while they're all in the Med somewhere, reading the Daily Mail and talking about the war they weren't even alive to see.

Maybe we should restrict the franchise to the upper middle classes.

Yes because that was exactly what I said. (fuck sake)

felix

OnlyLivingBoy said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

It's the baby boomers, selfish and irresponsible to the last. Can't we organise a free cruise for them all and then run the referendum again while they're all in the Med somewhere, reading the Daily Mail and talking about the war they weren't even alive to see.

Is this the one group you are allowed to stereotype these days without fear of criticism? Grow up seems the only appropriate response to such an inane comment.

Theuniondivvie

HYUFD said:

anothernick said:

isam said:

brendan16 said:

isam said:

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?s=21

Nearly 30% of men aged 18-30 not having sex is quite a shocking figure - particularly as its nearly double the figure for women. Who are the women having relations with?

Back in 1989 the percentage was half that and the levels for both sexes pretty similar.

There may be other factors than metoo of course e.g. the cost of housing meaning fewer people can afford their own place. If you are still living with mum and dad or in small shared rental flats - its a bit harder to arrange?

Yes I only mentioned that as one of the possible factors because it is the topic of the header. Others were less men of that age in work, more live w parents etc

Greater use of online porn perhaps?

Sad if true.

That and more time spent online generally, more sex education and the MeToo movement and emphasis on consent, fear of intimacy and concerns over body image and people living at home longer and the need to build a future first all factors

https://www.tcsnetwork.co.uk/why-are-millennials-having-less-sex/

Also the red MAGA baseball caps & the chino & white polo shirt look probably not helping to get the ladeez horny. Works for billionaire Don but absolutely no one else.

felix

OldKingCole said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

I'm a pensioner with what I'm fairly sure is a safe fixed income, but I have a son who is having a reducing income because his final commission depends on the exchange rate and another whose firm is seriously considering moving part at least of their their HQ operation out of UK. And that's before I start on the effect on my grandchildren, both working and still in Education.

Remainers are as guilty as some Brexiteers of this absurd stereotyping which has led to the ridiculous polarisation we find ourselves in.

logical_song

OnlyLivingBoy said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

It's the baby boomers, selfish and irresponsible to the last. Can't we organise a free cruise for them all and then run the referendum again while they're all in the Med somewhere, reading the Daily Mail and talking about the war they weren't even alive to see.

Not that you're generalising or being prejudiced, of course.

felix

Sean_F said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1112011627312934913

That sounds quite lively, but no more so than plenty of political meetings I've been to.

It makes a refreshing change to the anti-semitic verbiage of the average Labour Party meeting.

viewcode

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

Because it won't be horrendous for them. Recall Goodwin's three tribes: the poor, the retired, the wealthy social conservatives. All three are insulated from economic shocks: the poor can't get any worse, the retired have already lost their jobs, and the WSC can just live elsewhere until the fuss as died down. It's the upper-working class and lower-middle-class who will be hurt by a recession should one occur

brendan16

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

A YouGov poll from 24th to 24th March 2019 ie last week had 39% of Tory voters wanting to Leave the EU without a Deal compared to just 20% of Tory voters who wanted to Stay in the EU. 18% of Tory voters wanted to Leave the EU with an alternative Deal and 15% of Tory voters wanted to Leave the EU with May's Deal

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hga0kq3zd5/Internal_190325_Brexit_am_w.pdf

Across the country as a whole 42% wanted to Remain in the EU, 23% to Leave the EU with No Deal, 13% to Leave the EU with an alternative Deal and 9% to Leave the EU with May's Deal.

So No Deal is the most popular Leave option but Leave only beats Remain with No Deal and Leave with Deal backers combined

Yes, I know all that; what I don't understand, apart from the hysteria whipped up by the Express and (nowadays to a lesser extent) the Mail, why any one does. I cannot, I really cannot, see any advantages whatsoever, particularly in the short-term, and as a lifelong Liberal/liberal I'm accustomed to trying to see other points of view.

I love the way remain is always presented as one option but leave has multiple ones - so comes top!

There are several versions of remain too moving forward - is it remain and join the Euro and Schengen, remain but only if we keep the rebate for good, remain but reform, remain but no more integration or full united states of Europe. Remain isn't a fixed position - as the last 40 years in the EU/EEC has shown. Probe remain voters and I expect they may have multiple views on the future direction if we stay in.

But the conclusion of the poll is 45% want to leave and only 42% want to remain. So nothing has changed?...

logical_song

Theuniondivvie said:

Finally Leave get's a decent crowd.

https://twitter.com/AngryScotland/status/1111997533096677377

"Today, I'm being silenced" he shouted into the microphone.
How many hundred thousand in the crowd?

felix

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Sean_F said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

It's the baby boomers, selfish and irresponsible to the last. Can't we organise a free cruise for them all and then run the referendum again while they're all in the Med somewhere, reading the Daily Mail and talking about the war they weren't even alive to see.

Maybe we should restrict the franchise to the upper middle classes.

Yes because that was exactly what I said. (fuck sake)

You don't get sarcasm I see.

rottenborough

Betting post

https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1111911508022386688

justin124

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

The talk of national unity governments from people like Kirkup on the one hand, and no-deal campaigns by more than half of Tory members on the other, are so far apart that this is the kind of disconnected talk at the extreme ends of the spectrum that usually presages and predicts a split. The Tories will be incredibly lucky to get through the week without one.

Given 8 Labour MPs and 3 Tory MPs have already defected to CUK/TIG, both main parties are already split anyway, it is just the extent of the split that may get bigger but Blairites in Labour and Remainers in the Tory Party are now clearly a minority

If you look at those MPs and journalists who've already publicly aligned themselves with Grieve, you already have the first outlines of the next split. A big question in the Tory parliamentary party is how many "quiet remainers" are left, behind the familiar figures of Grieve and Clarke. There's certainly more than three or four, and those opposed to no-deal may be much greater. In the government alone you have Rudd, Liddington, Hammond, Clark, Gauke, Mundell, etc.

It is possible we could see CUK/TIG become a UK En Marche if say Raab or Boris succeeds May as Tory Leader and Corbyn stays Labour Leader

Decidedly unlikely under our FPTP system - indeed beyond the defectors themselves few TIG candidates are likely to save their deposits.

rcs1000

isam said:

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?s=21

Young women are still getting plenty of sex, which suggests there is either more lesbianism or that older guys are doing rather well.

TheScreamingEagles

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?s=21

Young women are still getting plenty of sex, which suggests there is either more lesbianism or that older guys are doing rather well.

Can you remind us when you moved to America so we can work out if you're the cause?

williamglenn

felix said:

Sean_F said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1112011627312934913

That sounds quite lively, but no more so than plenty of political meetings I've been to.

It makes a refreshing change to the anti-semitic verbiage of the average Labour Party meeting.

The Kipper behind the deselection bid is a Diana conspiracy theorist.

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2015/jan/18/truth-lies-diana-review-diana-princess-of-wales

Morris_Dancer

Good afternoon, everyone.

Mr. 1000, or there's an increasing number of young men who are having lots of sex, and of young men having little to none, with the 'middle class' (as it were) being thinned out.

Interesting qualifying. I'll begin the first part of pre-race nonsense but it's likely the blog will be up tomorrow morning rather than this evening.

OblitusSumMe

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?s=21

Young women are still getting plenty of sex, which suggests there is either more lesbianism or that older guys are doing rather well.

Or some younger guys are doing very well - that's actually not very surprising given that the internet allows individuals (and businesses more generally) to market themselves to a wider range of people.

viewcode

brendan16 said:

isam said:

Interesting thread that is maybe a bit on topic... one of the reasons given for the lack of sex in America is #metoo

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?s=21

Nearly 30% of men aged 18-30 not having sex is quite a shocking figure - particularly as its nearly double the figure for women. Who are the women having relations with?

Ahem.

Explanation 1: The tyranny of percentages. If the number of women is greater than the number of men, then 40% of men is not necessarily a bigger number thatn 35% of women

Explanation 2: Age bands. The 18-30 women may be having sex with men over 30 or under 18

Explanation 3: Homosexuality. The 18-30 women may be having sex with each other.

OnlyLivingBoy

logical_song said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

It's the baby boomers, selfish and irresponsible to the last. Can't we organise a free cruise for them all and then run the referendum again while they're all in the Med somewhere, reading the Daily Mail and talking about the war they weren't even alive to see.

Not that you're generalising or being prejudiced, of course.

I am generalising but I don't think I am being prejudiced. Brexit was delivered by the pensioner block vote, people who are insulated from the economic costs by their fixed incomes, and won't even be around to bear the costs of it, putting my generation's prosperity at risk and restricting the horizons of our children. And for what? A nostalgic vision of a 1950s Britain even they can barely remember. Of course they have as much right to vote as the rest of us, but don't expect us to thank them for the mess they've created.

OblitusSumMe

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

The talk of national unity governments from people like Kirkup on the one hand, and no-deal campaigns by more than half of Tory members on the other, are so far apart that this is the kind of disconnected talk at the extreme ends of the spectrum that usually presages and predicts a split. The Tories will be incredibly lucky to get through the week without one.

Given 8 Labour MPs and 3 Tory MPs have already defected to CUK/TIG, both main parties are already split anyway, it is just the extent of the split that may get bigger but Blairites in Labour and Remainers in the Tory Party are now clearly a minority

If you look at those MPs and journalists who've already publicly aligned themselves with Grieve, you already have the first outlines of the next split. A big question in the Tory parliamentary party is how many "quiet remainers" are left, behind the familiar figures of Grieve and Clarke. There's certainly more than three or four, and those opposed to no-deal may be much greater. In the government alone you have Rudd, Liddington, Hammond, Clark, Gauke, Mundell, etc.

It is possible we could see CUK/TIG become a UK En Marche if say Raab or Boris succeeds May as Tory Leader and Corbyn stays Labour Leader

That is what *ought* to be happening.

And I would be early to the barricades.

But the evidence I would be followed by many isn't appearing. Yet, at least.

Yes, it would seem that UK politics is continuing to polarise to the extremes and moderates like Grieve are being left behind.

I would mind less about this were the representatives of those extremes not so monumentally stupid.

OnlyLivingBoy

felix said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Sean_F said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

Scott_P said:

HYUFD said:

Given 52% of the voters voted Leave and Leavers now dominate the Tory Party and 40% of the voters voted for Corbyn Labour and Corbynites now dominate the Labour Party what may seem a sect is actually increasingly the majority of the country

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1111613110652145664

Quite. HYUFD repeatedly confuses some Tory members with Tory voters. There lies ruin for the party.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-tories-prefer-no-deal-brexit-poll-11598348
Some 51% of Tory voters want a no-deal Brexit, compared with 26% of Labour supporters.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-voting-brits-would-quit-12925014

I can usually comprehend why people vote the way they do. However, I really cannot understand why people are prepared to prefer, or even contemplate, a No-Deal Brexit. For a while at any rate it'll be horrendous.

If you are a pensioner Tory member and you think your fixed income is safe, and you aren't exposed to any of the potentially damaging effects on the economy, travel, etc., maybe it isn't so difficult to understand?

We are suffering the effects of having so many of the active electorate above the age when they participate in the labour market.

It's the baby boomers, selfish and irresponsible to the last. Can't we organise a free cruise for them all and then run the referendum again while they're all in the Med somewhere, reading the Daily Mail and talking about the war they weren't even alive to see.

Maybe we should restrict the franchise to the upper middle classes.

Yes because that was exactly what I said. (fuck sake)

You don't get sarcasm I see.

It's the lowest form of wit. I want to restrict old people from voting, not the plebs.