TIG to apply to be listed as a political party so they should be a permanent feature of polls soon
Tried to oust a Democratically elected leader of Labour
Trying to overturn a democratic referendum
Refuse to call by elections to ratify their switch of party
What a refreshing change! The Anti Democratic League for the bored middle class
What’s the problem in trying to oust a democratically elected leader? If a leader were awful should people have to sit and wait for them to quit of their own accord?
Well their reasoning for trying to oust him was that he was going to be awful, then he got their best election result in years. So their judgement is as poor as their principles
Unsuited for politics is clearly nonsense. You dont last even on backbenches for that long without being suited for politics, and she held high office for years. She's unsuited to be PM but going that far is clearly silliness and projection.
That's a second-order type of argument which is trumped by actual first-hand observation of, to take one example out of hundreds, the 2017 GE fiasco. Yes, it is heavily against the odds that someone utterly unsuited to politics should become PM, but she has managed it.
May like brown is totally unsuited to leader / pm, but both showed ability to last as a minister, operating as technocrats.
Exactly. The top job is not easy, few are great, most are crappy, some are very bad, but none means someone is unsuited to politics, even senior politics. There is a wealth of evidence that she is suited to it given her career. Observation of her time as leader and PM doesn’t erase decades of political life, much of it successful or at least competent enough as these things go.
Timing has a lot to do with it as well. Imagine if the Blair/Brown and Cameron/May terms had been reversed. May and Brown might have been seen as good PMs.
Even then, I doubt they would. They don't have what it takes to be a popular leader.
Unsuited for politics is clearly nonsense. You dont last even on backbenches for that long without being suited for politics, and she held high office for years. She's unsuited to be PM but going that far is clearly silliness and projection.
That's a second-order type of argument which is trumped by actual first-hand observation of, to take one example out of hundreds, the 2017 GE fiasco. Yes, it is heavily against the odds that someone utterly unsuited to politics should become PM, but she has managed it.
May like brown is totally unsuited to leader / pm, but both showed ability to last as a minister, operating as technocrats.
Exactly. The top job is not easy, few are great, most are crappy, some are very bad, but none means someone is unsuited to politics, even senior politics. There is a wealth of evidence that she is suited to it given her career. Observation of her time as leader and PM doesn’t erase decades of political life, much of it successful or at least competent enough as these things go.
KLE, you sure you are not her other half, or are you just having a laugh
I’m not saying she is good at all, but she at least knows how to operate in politics well enough to rise through the ranks and then survive in a difficult ministry for a long time. She has long since exhausted sympathy she might deserve for the difficulty of the job before her, she has made things so much worse through indecision and poor decisions respectively, but it is simply absurd to suggest someone lasts this long in politics while being unsuited for it. Even a total incompetent could be suited to politics and so last a long time, indeed there’s plenty who fit that description. She’s a bad PM, no question, but unsuited to politics? I don’t think the evidence of her career supports that.
Have to say plenty of them who are totally useless get safe seats and are there for life , just look at Martin the previous speaker and there are plenty of others, longevity in Westminster does not require much talent, just get the right seat to start off.
Which should be great for Labour as the party will not put up with it and there will be defections and current MPs leaving the party to stand independently, which will usher in a socialist paradise. This argument stands up to no scrutiny.
Yes, Labour are well placed if the WA passes. As they are if it doesn't.
The question I have is of the following 2 GE scenarios -
(i) Pre Brexit, running on renegotiation and REF2. (ii) Post Brexit, running on CU/SM.
Which are they more likely to win. I think (i).
You ignore the fact most of the top Tory and Labour marginal seats voted Leave, if Labour is seen to have blocked Brexit that will hit them in the Northern and Midlands marginals even if they pile up even bigger majorities in the inner cities and university towns
Unlike you to ignore more recent polling, HY?
Labour need 2017 Tory Leave voters in marginal seats to win power and gain seats not Labour Remain voters who already vote Labour
TIG to apply to be listed as a political party so they should be a permanent feature of polls soon
Tried to oust a Democratically elected leader of Labour
Trying to overturn a democratic referendum
Refuse to call by elections to ratify their switch of party
What a refreshing change! The Anti Democratic League for the bored middle class
What’s the problem in trying to oust a democratically elected leader? If a leader were awful should people have to sit and wait for them to quit of their own accord?
Well their reasoning for trying to oust him was that he was going to be awful, then he got their best election result in years. So their judgement is as poor as their principles
Perhaps so, but the point that a democratically elected leader does not and should not make someone immune to an ousting remains fair.
TIG to apply to be listed as a political party so they should be a permanent feature of polls soon
Tried to oust a Democratically elected leader of Labour
Trying to overturn a democratic referendum
Refuse to call by elections to ratify their switch of party
What a refreshing change! The Anti Democratic League for the bored middle class
What’s the problem in trying to oust a democratically elected leader? If a leader were awful should people have to sit and wait for them to quit of their own accord?
Well their reasoning for trying to oust him was that he was going to be awful, then he got their best election result in years. So their judgement is as poor as their principles
None of his doing, though. If May had shut up about foxhunting, and proposed a Royal Commission to look at dementia care, she'd have had a 20-30 majority.
And I do wish we had been more honest in the past and described our set-up as an elective oligarchy, which it is, rather than a democracy, which would stop "Did Magna Carta die in vain?" tirades against those with the thoroughly good idea that we should overturn the result of the profoundly alien and unBritish referendum.
If Chuka holds Streatham next time round, we will see ‘CUK HOLD’ on the screen on big letters.
Well done guys, well done.
I think the Labour machine is too strong there. He should switch to the Cities of London and Westminster, I think he'd have a better chance there as he can peel off both Tories and Labour.
Barnier confirms the EU will support an EU-UK Customs Union
Which the Commons will likely vote for on Monday after preferences if the Withdrawal Agreement fails again today, well done ERG
I think the Tory leadership contest just might be won by someone who says No to that though by which point the deal has already gone through
If a new Tory leader ignores a Commmons majority they will lose a VONC and general election inevitable.
If the WA fails today and PD fails too the Deal will not yet have gone through but EU can see a Commons majority for permanent Customs Union
A General Election under a new leader could be exactly what's needed.
Oh and they'd only lose a VONC if Tory MPs decided to abandon the whip and sacrifice their seats since they'd be deselected and replaced in a VONC.
Boles etc have said they would VONC the Government rather than allow No Deal and he has made clear he could not care less about his local party.
In any case if the Deal fails May says she would press for lengthy extension and to contest the European elections given the House has voted against No Deal so it should not be an issue
Unsuited for politics is clearly nonsense. You dont last even on backbenches for that long without being suited for politics, and she held high office for years. She's unsuited to be PM but going that far is clearly silliness and projection.
That's a second-order type of argument which is trumped by actual first-hand observation of, to take one example out of hundreds, the 2017 GE fiasco. Yes, it is heavily against the odds that someone utterly unsuited to politics should become PM, but she has managed it.
Her largely trouble-free six years in charge of the Home Office are much better evidence that she's not "utterly unsuited" to politics. She might even have been a decent PM under other circumstances (heaven knows, the last few years would've tested anyone), but even so, she's still there and in charge against all the odds. Wrong person for the times, but that article is overkill.
You ignore the fact most of the top Tory and Labour marginal seats voted Leave, if Labour is seen to have blocked Brexit that will hit them in the Northern and Midlands marginals even if they pile up even bigger majorities in the inner cities and university towns
I'm not ignoring that. It is a clear risk.
On the other hand, offering REF2 makes them the party likely to stop Brexit. It says to Remainers, you want to stop this disaster? OK you must swallow JC as PM. It might work. My sense is that it would.
But a post Brexit GE, running just on closer alignment than the Tories? No, I fear that the Tories win that one quite easily.
Probably on the former scenario only with SNP confidence and supply
Barnier confirms the EU will support an EU-UK Customs Union
Which the Commons will likely vote for on Monday after preferences if the Withdrawal Agreement fails again today, well done ERG
I think the Tory leadership contest just might be won by someone who says No to that though by which point the deal has already gone through
If a new Tory leader ignores a Commmons majority they will lose a VONC and general election inevitable.
If the WA fails today and PD fails too the Deal will not yet have gone through but EU can see a Commons majority for permanent Customs Union
A General Election under a new leader could be exactly what's needed.
Oh and they'd only lose a VONC if Tory MPs decided to abandon the whip and sacrifice their seats since they'd be deselected and replaced in a VONC.
Boles etc have said they would VONC the Governmemt rather than allow No Deal and he has made clear he could not care less about his local party
To avoid No Deal yes. But we wouldn't be talking No Deal, the WA is the same for May's Deal or CU Deal. If we are in the WA then No Deal is impossible [thanks backstop] so no reason to continue with customs union to avoid No Deal anymore.
If it looks like it won't go through (and it seems there are still too many unreconciled, despite the lame ERG folding) I wonder if anyone will make a name for themselves by switching support AWAY from the deal?
Lucy Allan Richard Bacon Crispin Blunt Conor Burns Rehman Chishti Robert Courts Iain Duncan Smith Charlie Elphicke Michael Fabricant James Gray Mark Harper Gordon Henderson Boris Johnson Daniel Kawczynski Pauline Latham Anne Main Anne-Marie Trevelyan Esther McVey Tom Pursglove Dominic Raab Jacob Rees-Mogg Henry Smith Royston Smith Ross Thomson Craig Tracey Shailesh Vara John Whittingdale
Tory rebels who are considering backing May’s deal (6):
Simon Clarke Chris Green Eddie Hughes Julia Lopez Lee Rowley Bob Stewart"
Barnier confirms the EU will support an EU-UK Customs Union
Which the Commons will likely vote for on Monday after preferences if the Withdrawal Agreement fails again today, well done ERG
I think the Tory leadership contest just might be won by someone who says No to that though by which point the deal has already gone through
If a new Tory leader ignores a Commmons majority they will lose a VONC and general election inevitable.
If the WA fails today and PD fails too the Deal will not yet have gone through but EU can see a Commons majority for permanent Customs Union
A General Election under a new leader could be exactly what's needed.
Oh and they'd only lose a VONC if Tory MPs decided to abandon the whip and sacrifice their seats since they'd be deselected and replaced in a VONC.
Boles etc have said they would VONC the Governmemt rather than allow No Deal and he has made clear he could not care less about his local party
To avoid No Deal yes. But we wouldn't be talking No Deal, the WA is the same for May's Deal or CU Deal. If we are in the WA then No Deal is impossible [thanks backstop] so no reason to continue with customs union to avoid No Deal anymore.
The key now is getting a CU proposal agreed, with or without a PV, and then securing an extension of nine months, one year or two years from the EU. I understand both Monday and Wednesday are now earmarked to progress discussions.
Lucy Allan Richard Bacon Crispin Blunt Conor Burns Rehman Chishti Robert Courts Iain Duncan Smith Charlie Elphicke Michael Fabricant James Gray Mark Harper Gordon Henderson Boris Johnson Daniel Kawczynski Pauline Latham Anne Main Anne-Marie Trevelyan Esther McVey Tom Pursglove Dominic Raab Jacob Rees-Mogg Henry Smith Royston Smith Ross Thomson Craig Tracey Shailesh Vara John Whittingdale
Tory rebels who are considering backing May’s deal (6):
Simon Clarke Chris Green Eddie Hughes Julia Lopez Lee Rowley Bob Stewart"
I have it at 30 or 31 switchers or 276 Ayes overall. There are a few more names on the list I expect to come across.
Assuming the vote fails today and we have IV2 on Monday, will cabinet members still be forced to abstain? I suspect the CU proposal might have crept over the line if the cabinet had been allowed to vote.
Any news on their signature colour? Pink is available.
Personally, I don't like it. First of all there are organisations like change.org, which might not align perfectly with the party's views. Secondly, change is not necessarily for the better ...
Assuming the vote fails today and we have IV2 on Monday, will cabinet members still be forced to abstain? I suspect the CU proposal might have crept over the line if the cabinet had been allowed to vote.
TIGGER (CUK) abstentions would also have got it over the line - I reckon there's a deal to be done there
Sounds like a supplier of small, loose change to major retailers.
To me it sounds like some wanky corporate social media ad campaign that is trying to sound all woke.
Corbyn will enjoy the result in Streatham at the next election in particular I think.
I reckon Chuka will hold it. I know that seat very well.
Labour will stick up a candidate as remainy as Thangam Debonnaire in the constituency, then attack Chuka on supporting the "enablers of austerity". Lab hold.
Any news on their signature colour? Pink is available.
Personally, I don't like it. First of all there are organisations like change.org, which might not align perfectly with the party's views. Secondly, change is not necessarily for the better ...
Considering the only thing they all agree on is halting change, the latter certainly seems to be an issue.
They believe in Change the same way as a Democratic People's Republic is democratically controlled by the people.
Any news on their signature colour? Pink is available.
Personally, I don't like it. First of all there are organisations like change.org, which might not align perfectly with the party's views. Secondly, change is not necessarily for the better ...
More importantly everyone's going to call them centrist CUKs
Any news on their signature colour? Pink is available.
Personally, I don't like it. First of all there are organisations like change.org, which might not align perfectly with the party's views. Secondly, change is not necessarily for the better ...
Don't read too much into a name. Over the past 40 years the Conservatives have trashed the idea that they are for conserving anything, or that they are cautious traditionalists. Labour are likewise not very much in touch with the working classes.
Probably on the former scenario only with SNP confidence and supply
Yes, a clear Lab majority is hard to see. So they govern in tandem with the SNP. Which kind of makes the outcome more likely, since a great many centre ground remainers would be less uncomfortable with Corbyn if his hands are tied and he can't do the thing which terrifies them - bring about a massive and irreversible shift in the balance of wealth and power in favour of working people.
And ultimately covered in shit and flushed down the drain.
I must admit I hadn't realised until today that Andrex is so called because it was invented by Andrea Leadsom during her time at ICI (though it was unaccountably omitted from her Nobel Prize citation).
I’ve disengaged from the parliamentary votes etc. Listening to quality podcasts instead of refreshing twitter. IMO, ft alphaville is one of the best.
Today’s episode is on brexit - wrt to Ireland. The bubble is slightly remain/economicsy as you might expect from the ft, but to their contributors credit, they’re self aware.
Assuming the vote fails today and we have IV2 on Monday, will cabinet members still be forced to abstain? I suspect the CU proposal might have crept over the line if the cabinet had been allowed to vote.
You think Customs Union has a majority of the Cabinet?
No less shit than historic names Conservatives or Labour. At least it says what they want.
To change the UK by keeping things the same?
Well they don't want to do that, do they? They want to change the UK by pushing the assortment of extremists, thickos, bigots, xenophobes, quarterwits and clowns who have taken over the main two parties back into the wilderness.
And ultimately covered in shit and flushed down the drain.
I must admit I hadn't realised until today that Andrex is so called because it was invented by Andrea Leadsom during her time at ICI (though it was unaccountably omitted from her Nobel Prize citation).
You know that's going to become an urban myth now don't you?
And ultimately covered in shit and flushed down the drain.
I must admit I hadn't realised until today that Andrex is so called because it was invented by Andrea Leadsom during her time at ICI (though it was unaccountably omitted from her Nobel Prize citation).
And ultimately covered in shit and flushed down the drain.
I must admit I hadn't realised until today that Andrex is so called because it was invented by Andrea Leadsom during her time at ICI (though it was unaccountably omitted from her Nobel Prize citation).
You know that's going to become an urban myth now don't you?
Much as I love the optimism, and much as KC has earned himself the humour of most Tories through his long service and general bonheur, I'm not seeing the coalition which gets to 325 on that VOC.
No less shit than historic names Conservatives or Labour. At least it says what they want.
To change the UK by keeping things the same?
Well they don't want to do that, do they? They want to change the UK by pushing the assortment of extremists, thickos, bigots, xenophobes, quarterwits and clowns who have taken over the main two parties back into the wilderness.
More power to their elbows.
So their vision of the UK is one that looks exactly like the UK right now except that watching PMQs won't make their delicate centrist souls sad any more?
Any news on their signature colour? Pink is available.
Personally, I don't like it. First of all there are organisations like change.org, which might not align perfectly with the party's views. Secondly, change is not necessarily for the better ...
More importantly everyone's going to call them centrist CUKs
Assuming the vote fails today and we have IV2 on Monday, will cabinet members still be forced to abstain? I suspect the CU proposal might have crept over the line if the cabinet had been allowed to vote.
You think Customs Union has a majority of the Cabinet?
“A” customs union is crap we have to allow tariff free access to other countries but it’s not reciprocated. The only customs union worth being in is “the” customs union but the EU will not allow that as it threatens the integrity of the single market
Any news on their signature colour? Pink is available.
Personally, I don't like it. First of all there are organisations like change.org, which might not align perfectly with the party's views. Secondly, change is not necessarily for the better ...
More importantly everyone's going to call them centrist CUKs
“A” customs union is crap we have to allow tariff free access to other countries but it’s not reciprocated. The only customs union worth being in is “the” customs union but the EU will not allow that as it threatens the integrity of the single market
A positive vote for a customs union means a general election.
Assuming the vote fails today and we have IV2 on Monday, will cabinet members still be forced to abstain? I suspect the CU proposal might have crept over the line if the cabinet had been allowed to vote.
You think Customs Union has a majority of the Cabinet?
I do. But we may never know.
When only 33 Tories backed it first time around, why would a majority of the Cabinet have done so?
Any news on their signature colour? Pink is available.
Personally, I don't like it. First of all there are organisations like change.org, which might not align perfectly with the party's views. Secondly, change is not necessarily for the better ...
More importantly everyone's going to call them centrist CUKs
Comments
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1111582509517717505?s=20
If the WA fails today and PD fails too the Deal will not yet have gone through but EU can see a Commons majority for permanent Customs Union
*Go Baron
Oh and they'd only lose a VONC if Tory MPs decided to abandon the whip and sacrifice their seats since they'd be deselected and replaced in a VONC.
https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584
Wonder who Labour are hoping for?
And I do wish we had been more honest in the past and described our set-up as an elective oligarchy, which it is, rather than a democracy, which would stop "Did Magna Carta die in vain?" tirades against those with the thoroughly good idea that we should overturn the result of the profoundly alien and unBritish referendum.
Well done guys, well done.
CUKOLD
In any case if the Deal fails May says she would press for lengthy extension and to contest the European elections given the House has voted against No Deal so it should not be an issue
More people have signed the petition than voted for UKIP at its peak in the 2015 GE.
Buy these massively overpriced trainers and we will donate a £5 to trans awareness education scheme & stop all bigotry #changeUK
Will they hear the result they don't like !
"Tory rebels now backing May’s deal (28):
Lucy Allan
Richard Bacon
Crispin Blunt
Conor Burns
Rehman Chishti
Robert Courts
Iain Duncan Smith
Charlie Elphicke
Michael Fabricant
James Gray
Mark Harper
Gordon Henderson
Boris Johnson
Daniel Kawczynski
Pauline Latham
Anne Main
Anne-Marie Trevelyan
Esther McVey
Tom Pursglove
Dominic Raab
Jacob Rees-Mogg
Henry Smith
Royston Smith
Ross Thomson
Craig Tracey
Shailesh Vara
John Whittingdale
Tory rebels who are considering backing May’s deal (6):
Simon Clarke
Chris Green
Eddie Hughes
Julia Lopez
Lee Rowley
Bob Stewart"
Any news on their signature colour? Pink is available.
Soft, strong and very long?
Funny how life comes back to bite you!
Lab hold.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6864507/Council-orders-trespassing-homeless-man-leave-DIY-wooden-cabin-DEMOLISH-it.html
They believe in Change the same way as a Democratic People's Republic is democratically controlled by the people.
https://petition-track.uk/check-petition/241584/day
No way.
Today’s episode is on brexit - wrt to Ireland. The bubble is slightly remain/economicsy as you might expect from the ft, but to their contributors credit, they’re self aware.
The last 15 mins especially is v good.
More power to their elbows.
Sorry.
Labour would just vote against regardless.
Hence why Labour might vote for it.