Parliamentary petition to "Revoke Article 50 and Stay in the EU" was at 630209 signatures at 0941 this morning. Signatures coming in at 4000 per minute. Petitions site has now crashed.
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
Looks at how the chart is calculated - I suspect it's not going to chart where stated and will be a damp squid..
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
How many sales/streams does it take to get into the top 10 nowadays?
When I was younger I read Revolution in the Head by Ian Mcdonald. A masterpiece of a book, all about the 1960s counter culture revolution and the Beatles music, track by track. It's a beautiful piece of work by an author who sadly took his own life.
He mentions in the book that in the sixties it took 400,000-600,000 sales to get to Number 1. By the nineties that was down to 20,000-30,000.
It will be interesting to see how many fly in from N Korea, the Vatican, and The Falklands for Saturday's demonstration."
That last petition for a second referendum got nearly 3 million signatures - the weekend after we voted to leave. And 3 years on we haven't had a second referendum. Which perhaps shows how much impact they have. I merely point out that they can be easily hacked and manipulated - the reality emerging long after the headlines and the media push (its getting plenty of free promotion!) let alone the twitterati.
Hugh Grant has for example signed it today to save us from a national emergency!
As for Saturday the entitled white middle classes (the last event was arguably the least diverse crowd I have seen for a while in the capital) of London and the Home Counties will no doubt vacate their million pound plus houses en masse to lecture the 'plebs' again that they got it wrong and to stop complaining about their lot (as life is just dandy for them). Add in a fair proportion of the 1.5 million EU citizens in the capital (who don't have a vote anyway in referendums and national elections) and I have no doubt there will be a big crowd.
And its all certainly well funded - 4 page wrap around in the Standard and leaflets across the capital. Who is funding it all - not 'the Russians' presumably so who cares?!
Please spare us from online petitions and marches - have any of them actually changed anything compared to actual voting in referendums and elections?! They are representative of people who sign petitions and go on marches.
Voting is like the bare minimum you can do in a democracy. Agitating, marching, demonstrating, organising should be the duty of all citizens to be politically engaged. I live in a v Remain area, surrounded by v Leave areas, and I've seen a group of around ~50 dedicated people going to those Leave places and having these conversations, leafleting, campaigning etc for a few years now. That will have made a difference. If a ref is held again, or at the next GE, that activism will have changed people's minds.
It will be interesting to see how many fly in from N Korea, the Vatican, and The Falklands for Saturday's demonstration."
That first petition for a second referendum got over 3 million signatures - the weekend after we voted to leave. And 3 years on we haven't had a second referendum. Which perhaps shows how much impact they have. I merely point out that they can be easily hacked and manipulated - the reality emerging long after the headlines and the media push (its getting plenty of free promotion!) let alone the twitterati.
Hugh Grant has for example signed it today to save us from a national emergency!
As for Saturday the entitled white middle classes (the last event was arguably the least diverse crowd I have seen for a while in the capital) of London and the Home Counties will no doubt vacate their million pound plus houses en masse to lecture the 'plebs' again that they got it wrong and to stop complaining about their lot (as life is just dandy for them). Add in a fair proportion of the 1.5 million EU citizens in the capital (who don't have a vote anyway in referendums and national elections) and I have no doubt there will be a big crowd.
And its all certainly well funded - 4 page wrap around in the Standard and leaflets across the capital. Who is funding it all - not 'the Russians' presumably so who cares?!
Please spare us from online petitions and marches - have any of them actually changed anything compared to actual voting in referendums and elections?! They are representative of people who sign petitions and go on marches.
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
"No deal is better than billions to pay"
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCztiayy55I
Mr Eagles will be very upset at someone murdering one of his favourite songs!
Well the petitions website crashed when it got over 2000 votes a minute. It was on schedule to reach one million by lunchtime, though obviously the real target would have to have been 17million,. I can only imagine that Mrs May put Grayling in charge of the website
So how’s that building of a consensus for Brexit going?
It's close as to whether the revoke petition becomes the most signed (on the official online platform) by 9am.
a revoke can costs two tricks IIRC.. an unwelcome outcome
At the moment we're in seven spades redoubled with a void in the suit and partner has just put down Jxx.
This is what happens when you use the blackwood convention. It always ends in tears.
That’s why Sliding Gerber is much more effective at getting to a palatable outcome
Gerber is the worst convention around for suit contracts- far better to cue-bid: As for Blackwood, I think the correct response is 5 - diamonds (no aces up our sleeve). In America they are trying for No Trump so Gerber is still an option.
(An established revoke costs two tricks if the revoke card won the trick e.g. by Trumping when holding a card in the suit and then winning a subsequent trick. At the moment the revoke is not yet established - which means it can be corrected although it will result in a major penalty (card) at the polls - EBU TD
I would have thought that Baroness Blackwood would be in favour of playing the existing Deal rather than a revoke.
As relevantly for Brexit is the old Woody Allen joke about bridge being like sex: if you don't have a good partner you'd better have a good hand.
Still, just as well Britain holds all the cards, eh?
We need to start moving to a long extention and a rethink of the entire process very very quickly. but no one seems to be offering leadership on how to get there.
Last night must have been the last straw, we need to stop this crash, and stop it now. revoke/suspend whatever....
HELP!!!
Sadly enough of you Leavers aren’t worried about the long foretold tempest.
So we’ll crash out next week with No Deal as Dave warned.
Unless it's sorted tomorrow we crash out next week (as we discover unexpected stumbling blocks)..
I think that's right. Is there not some Statutory Instrument that has to be laid on Monday if there is to be an extension? Time's up folks.
If the deal is rejected, I think the EU will offer a choice of long delay or no deal. There will be a Parliamentary majority for the former, but whetherr it can be achieved...?
Long deal depends on the UK Parliament laying legislation by 11th April. I cannot see so no long deal
So you think it will be no deal now? You always said that was impossible.
It looks like my trust in the HOC was misplaced
It's May who has let you down.
498 mps who voted for A50 and default no deal bear the responsibility.
If they did not like TM deal they should have replaced her but not only did she win her party vonc she won her governments vonc
She has lots of faults but sadly there is not one other mp who could command Parliament at present apart from Ken Clarke
Parliamentary petition to "Revoke Article 50 and Stay in the EU" was at 630209 signatures at 0941 this morning. Signatures coming in at 4000 per minute. Petitions site has now crashed.
10% of petition signatures made yesterday daytime. 90% overnight while people are in bed.
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
How many sales/streams does it take to get into the top 10 nowadays?
That’s a good question. It’s now based on a formula that includes sales, digital downloads, streams on services like Spotify and YouTube and radio airplay. Not many people are actually buying music any more in the traditional sense.
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
We need to start moving to a long extention and a rethink of the entire process very very quickly. but no one seems to be offering leadership on how to get there.
Last night must have been the last straw, we need to stop this crash, and stop it now. revoke/suspend whatever....
HELP!!!
Sadly enough of you Leavers aren’t worried about the long foretold tempest.
So we’ll crash out next week with No Deal as Dave warned.
Unless it's sorted tomorrow we crash out next week (as we discover unexpected stumbling blocks)..
I think that's right. Is there not some Statutory Instrument that has to be laid on Monday if there is to be an extension? Time's up folks.
If the deal is rejected, I think the EU will offer a choice of long delay or no deal. There will be a Parliamentary majority for the former, but whetherr it can be achieved...?
It is not obvious there is a pathway in the time available. Even if you assume the official collapse of this government I don't see how an alternative is put in place in time. The choices May has given are deal or no deal. The short extension is a diversion into a cul-de-sac.
**FANTASY POLITICS KLAXON**
Do you remember that tweet yesterday suggesting the opposition parties were to meet May "and, separately, David Lidington" last night?
I can't for one moment imagine it wouldn't have leaked if anything substantive had taken place.. but I do wonder whether there's a non-May Plan B being drawn up for the day after MV3.
Scenario: MV3 defeated on Mon, May on an immediate Point of Order says she's had enough and flounces out; DL asks the house, if not for its confidence, then for backing to go to Brussels for a longer extension pending (probably) a GE. EU agrees on Thursday, everyone enjoys the weekend then comes back for a FTPA vote on Monday.
Parliamentary petition to "Revoke Article 50 and Stay in the EU" was at 630209 signatures at 0941 this morning. Signatures coming in at 4000 per minute. Petitions site has now crashed.
10% of petition signatures made yesterday daytime. 90% overnight while people are in bed.
Aren't foreign bot farms great.
You have to provide some personal details and click an email link back to sign. It would be pretty easy to evaluate false signatures if that is seen as an issue.
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
No sooner had I said "no deal" was for many people nothing more than sticking two fingers up..
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
Will BBC Radio 1 play it on their charts show?
If they could play Eamon's seminal rap work and Frankee's response record, I'm sure they could find a way if they wanted to.
It will be interesting to see how many fly in from N Korea, the Vatican, and The Falklands for Saturday's demonstration."
That first petition for a second referendum got over 3 million signatures - the weekend after we voted to leave. And 3 years on we haven't had a second referendum. Which perhaps shows how much impact they have. I merely point out that they can be easily hacked and manipulated - the reality emerging long after the headlines and the media push (its getting plenty of free promotion!) let alone the twitterati.
Hugh Grant has for example signed it today to save us from a national emergency!
As for Saturday the entitled white middle classes (the last event was arguably the least diverse crowd I have seen for a while in the capital) of London and the Home Counties will no doubt vacate their million pound plus houses en masse to lecture the 'plebs' again that they got it wrong and to stop complaining about their lot (as life is just dandy for them). Add in a fair proportion of the 1.5 million EU citizens in the capital (who don't have a vote anyway in referendums and national elections) and I have no doubt there will be a big crowd.
And its all certainly well funded - 4 page wrap around in the Standard and leaflets across the capital. Who is funding it all - not 'the Russians' presumably so who cares?!
Please spare us from online petitions and marches - have any of them actually changed anything compared to actual voting in referendums and elections?! They are representative of people who sign petitions and go on marches.
They are wrong kind of people?
Well I expect if you just allowed the mostly well off marching white middle classes of London and the south east the vote we might well get different election results and perhaps referendum results too. But thankfully the franchise is a bit wider these days!
Its a nice bit of exercise wandering around nice touristy parts of central London - and seems it will be a dry day. So good luck to them all! But London and the London based media have been lecturing the country it got it wrong since 24 June 2016!
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
Will BBC Radio 1 play it on their charts show?
They managed to avoid playing “Ding Dong, The Witch Is Dead” on the day of Margaret Thatcher’s funeral, so they’ll probably find a way around it.
It will be interesting to see how many fly in from N Korea, the Vatican, and The Falklands for Saturday's demonstration."
That first petition for a second referendum got over 3 million signatures - the weekend after we voted to leave. And 3 years on we haven't had a second referendum. Which perhaps shows how much impact they have. I merely point out that they can be easily hacked and manipulated - the reality emerging long after the headlines and the media push (its getting plenty of free promotion!) let alone the twitterati.
.
I still find it amusing that said petition was started by a Leaver (just before the actual result when Leavers thought they were going to lose)
Afterwards, of course, he and all other Leavers would totally have accepted a result that had gone the other way. Honest.
We need to start moving to a long extention and a rethink of the entire process very very quickly. but no one seems to be offering leadership on how to get there.
Last night must have been the last straw, we need to stop this crash, and stop it now. revoke/suspend whatever....
HELP!!!
Sadly enough of you Leavers aren’t worried about the long foretold tempest.
So we’ll crash out next week with No Deal as Dave warned.
Unless it's sorted tomorrow we crash out next week (as we discover unexpected stumbling blocks)..
I think that's right. Is there not some Statutory Instrument that has to be laid on Monday if there is to be an extension? Time's up folks.
If the deal is rejected, I think the EU will offer a choice of long delay or no deal. There will be a Parliamentary majority for the former, but whetherr it can be achieved...?
Long deal depends on the UK Parliament laying legislation by 11th April. I cannot see so no long deal
So you think it will be no deal now? You always said that was impossible.
It looks like my trust in the HOC was misplaced
It's May who has let you down.
498 mps who voted for A50 and default no deal bear the responsibility.
If they did not like TM deal they should have replaced her but not only did she win her party vonc she won her governments vonc
She has lots of faults but sadly there is not one other mp who could command Parliament at present apart from Ken Clarke
May has united Parliament against her and achieved the biggest govt defeat in history, there are many MPs who could do better than that.
May chose a strategy of brinkmanship, she narrowed down the options despite all the feedback that her deal would not pass. She led us to this point.
In any case, she is PM. The buck stops with the PM.
Parliamentary petition to "Revoke Article 50 and Stay in the EU" was at 630209 signatures at 0941 this morning. Signatures coming in at 4000 per minute. Petitions site has now crashed.
10% of petition signatures made yesterday daytime. 90% overnight while people are in bed.
Aren't foreign bot farms great.
I don't think the assumption necessarily holds water. FB posts peak not in the day but in the evening when people are at home.
If it was 2000/min this morning, I watched it ticking up at around 1am last night, and that was going at around 350/min. That's not inconsistent.
You're just casting cheap aspersions based on nothing but your own biases.
EDIT: Always amazed at the capability of Android keyboard to mangle sentences beyond recognition.
Parliamentary petition to "Revoke Article 50 and Stay in the EU" was at 630209 signatures at 0941 this morning. Signatures coming in at 4000 per minute. Petitions site has now crashed.
10% of petition signatures made yesterday daytime. 90% overnight while people are in bed.
Aren't foreign bot farms great.
You have to provide some personal details and click an email link back to sign. It would be pretty easy to evaluate false signatures if that is seen as an issue.
The geography of the signatures, and the speed up at Breakfast time suggests that the vast majority are kosher.
Morning all. Well May got a couple of things right last night - firstly, that our MPs (with one notable exception and precious few others) are a wretched bunch of venal shysters who don't understand the concepts of compromise and delivering on promises. I think that her words will resonate with the public. She has also reaffirmed what I think that she has recognised for some time - that her only chance of getting her deal through is to pit it against No Deal. It has, in my view, also brought back to the table the possibility of a last minute concession from the EU, which given the reaction of some MPs may be needed.
On that note, if only the likes of Lisa Nandy's self-awareness matched their egos - to say that you'll vote against what you feel is in the best interests of the country to spite someone who's criticised you demonstrates quite clearly how valid those criticisms are.
What May does not recognise is that - however honourable her intentions- her actions have played a huge part in putting us here. In footballing parlance, she's lost the dressing room and the players have gone rogue. It's easy to see why - she's not listened to other points of view, she's attempted to bully people into submission, and she's led her team to a series of huge defeats against relegation fodder opposition. These are marks of weak not strong leadership and when people on all sides of her cabinet told her Chequers was a disaster, she should have changed course.
Anyway, we are where we are but she will be gone sooner rather than later, hopefully having secured a deal. Challenging as it is, a strong leader (and this applies equally to labour) would have found a way for the likes of Mogg, Clarke, Johnson and Grieve to agree a way forward. Cameron would. So would Blair. So would Thatcher. And of those names, the only person in parliament that has embodied the parliamentary principles of compromise and finding a way - very much against his own beliefs - is Ken Clarke. A man in a festering pond of juveniles. And an ideal Caretaker PM once May has finally exited.
Parliamentary petition to "Revoke Article 50 and Stay in the EU" was at 630209 signatures at 0941 this morning. Signatures coming in at 4000 per minute. Petitions site has now crashed.
10% of petition signatures made yesterday daytime. 90% overnight while people are in bed.
Aren't foreign bot farms great.
I've been keeping some stats so I can run some tests to see if there are any obvious signs of malpractice. But the interest on Twitter, and indeed on this forum, suggests it is a genuinely high level of participation. And why would foreign players be backing the policy that is advantageous to the UK? Players that don't have the UK's interests at heart would be backing Brexit.
The idea that MPs are the ones who don't know what they want astounds me. At every turn this government has attempted to frustrate "the will of the people" (how I hate that phrase) ie their elected representatives. At every point the government, who do not have a majority and lost their majority partly on this stance on Brexit, has acted like toughies and demagogues, refusing to actually work with anyone on a deal that had even a whiff of compromise. Yes, Corbyn is a complete dork for walking out of a meeting that included Umana, but at least Corbyn's proposal for how to leave the EU could probably pass the house on a freeish vote and the EU. The same is not true of May's deal. She has failed to convince people of this deal in her rhetoric (she managed to get the EU to keep us in the SM without FoM, that should be Leaver Nirvana!) and in her politicking. She is useless, and only allowed to keep going because everyone else is even more useless. If we stay in the EU, I can see Tommy Robinson MEP in our future, and I don't really see us coming back from that. Once the likes of he have that sort of platform, we'll start going down the route of Poland, Hungary and Brazil.
MP's know what they don't want, not what they do want.
I think it's worse than that. I think they don't want to take any decision in case they get blamed. There are words to describe such people but if I used them OGH would ban me.
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
Will BBC Radio 1 play it on their charts show?
If they could play Eamon's seminal rap work and Frankee's response record, I'm sure they could find a way if they wanted to.
LOL. Didn’t that Eamon single have the most f-words ever on a number one record? A busy day for the guy at the record company who does the ‘clean’ radio edits.
If MV3 is voted down early next week, as seems likely, what are the possible next steps?
1. Mrs May immediately resigns as leader and PM and says it is up to parliament. Who is interim PM for the rest of the week? Lidington? May?
2. Mrs May doesn't resign but government loses VONC as some Tory MPs renege in desperation. Who is interim PM for the rest of the week? Lidington? May?
3. Mrs May doesn't resign or lose VNOC. EU offers unconditional long extension. May refuses. What then?
How, in practical terms do MPs, including Cabinet Ministers, take control from a rogue PM?
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
Better than I thought it would be. It was vaguely unpleasant but it didn't make me ill and I got through it more or less intact.
As a counterpoint to the Revoke petition, a group of Leavers have recorded a song called “17 Million F*** Offs” and it’s going to chart in the top 10 tomorrow. https://order-order.com/2019/03/20/17-million-fk-os/
Not a classic musical anthem, but that’s not the point.
Parliamentary petition to "Revoke Article 50 and Stay in the EU" was at 630209 signatures at 0941 this morning. Signatures coming in at 4000 per minute. Petitions site has now crashed.
10% of petition signatures made yesterday daytime. 90% overnight while people are in bed.
Aren't foreign bot farms great.
I don't think the assumption necessarily holds water. FB posts peak not in the day but in the evening when people are at home.
If it was 2000/min this morning, I watched it ticking up at around 1am last night, and that was going at around 350/min. That's not inconsistent.
You're just casting cheap aspersions based on nothing but your own biases.
EDIT: Always amazed at the capability of Android keyboard to mangle sentences beyond recognition.
I admit to not having a particularly big dog in the fight over Brexit. It's never been a driving issue for me and although I'm wary of the EU's power-creep and find them a very difficult organisation to like I would've taken Cameron's negotiated deal at the drop of a hat.
Regarding No Deal - I would avoid it at all costs and think it's is absolutely idiotic to crash out. If a person did die, (just one!) through a lack of medication it would be appalling and the government would be held responsible. It's not worth the risk.
So I'd take May's Deal but I'd also happily accept a new referendum.
I also think Leave would win a new referendum and the political/constitutional fallout from that would dwarf what we are seeing now.
That's why I guess the brains trust in parliament are busy ramming it into everybody that the best thing to do right now is vote for May's Deal, end the uncertainty, and move on to new arguments.
Parliamentary petition to "Revoke Article 50 and Stay in the EU" was at 630209 signatures at 0941 this morning. Signatures coming in at 4000 per minute. Petitions site has now crashed.
10% of petition signatures made yesterday daytime. 90% overnight while people are in bed.
Aren't foreign bot farms great.
I saw it hit 300 000 last night before going to bed and posted here to that effect.
Shortly after I woke up I saw it hit 400 000 and again posted here to that effect. Check my posting history and the timestamps if you don’t believe me.
So your “90% when people are in bed” doesn’t hold water.
Morning all. Well May got a couple of things right last night - firstly, that our MPs (with one notable exception and precious few others) are a wretched bunch of venal shysters who don't understand the concepts of compromise and delivering on promises. I think that her words will resonate with the public. She has also reaffirmed what I think that she has recognised for some time - that her only chance of getting her deal through is to pit it against No Deal. It has, in my view, also brought back to the table the possibility of a last minute concession from the EU, which given the reaction of some MPs may be needed.
On that note, if only the likes of Lisa Nandy's self-awareness matched their egos - to say that you'll vote against what you feel is in the best interests of the country to spite someone who's criticised you demonstrates quite clearly how valid those criticisms are.
What May does not recognise is that - however honourable her intentions- her actions have played a huge part in putting us here. In footballing parlance, she's lost the dressing room and the players have gone rogue. It's easy to see why - she's not listened to other points of view, she's attempted to bully people into submission, and she's led her team to a series of huge defeats against relegation fodder opposition. These are marks of weak not strong leadership and when people on all sides of her cabinet told her Chequers was a disaster, she should have changed course.
Anyway, we are where we are but she will be gone sooner rather than later, hopefully having secured a deal. Challenging as it is, a strong leader (and this applies equally to labour) would have found a way for the likes of Mogg, Clarke, Johnson and Grieve to agree a way forward. Cameron would. So would Blair. So would Thatcher. And of those names, the only person in parliament that has embodied the parliamentary principles of compromise and finding a way - very much against his own beliefs - is Ken Clarke. A man in a festering pond of juveniles. And an ideal Caretaker PM once May has finally exited.
Horses***t. The PM has utterly failed to take responsibility or to show any flexibility whatsoever. Parliament can only navigate around the Maybot's unicorn farm, and it is the failure of the government to follow the rules of parliament that have caused at least 30% of this crisis. Her deal is a dud and her intransigence in trying to ram it through is what has tested our constitution to destruction. So the public are now losing patience and by a big margin either want to revoke or to go for a redo referendum. It is at least rational: if the deal is a dud and no deal is a disaster, and if we can't extend art 50, then revoke is the only answer, followed by a major league reset in UK politics. And T May has only herself to blame.
I don't get why diehard Leavers think it unlikely that the Revoke petition should be getting such traction now. Leave has large numbers of committed opponents and Brexit is currently a complete fiasco.
So the petition has reached 500,000 so will need to be debated in Parliament. I wonder if that will be today, tomorrow or Monday as Bercow could prioritise it above everything else.
And that gives everyone a way out - put revoke to a vote and see who actually votes against.
Isn't there a validation process that needs to be carried out to make sure they are real people ?
There is a validation process.
You can be sure it isn't Russian bots. They don't want revoke!
I think they’d be fine with that
They want turmoil and discontent. They don’t care how.
And as you are all no doubt wondering, it would take about 3 days for the revoke article 50 petition to reach 17 million at the rate people are currently signing it.
Once again, a deal vs no deal referendum would be legitimate
Forcing Remain back on the ballot is not.
But MPs don’t want to take that path
If YouGov's poll yesterday is to be believed, Remain would beat either version of Leave roughly 60:40. Why are you so opposed to letting the public express a very commonly - currently probably majority - view?
I don't get why diehard Leavers think it unlikely that the Revoke petition should be getting such traction now. Leave has large numbers of committed opponents and Brexit is currently a complete fiasco.
I shall not, however, be signing it myself.
As I pointed out, we have had this before on second referendum petition.
If MV3 is voted down early next week, as seems likely, what are the possible next steps?
1. Mrs May immediately resigns as leader and PM and says it is up to parliament. Who is interim PM for the rest of the week? Lidington? May?
2. Mrs May doesn't resign but government loses VONC as some Tory MPs renege in desperation. Who is interim PM for the rest of the week? Lidington? May?
3. Mrs May doesn't resign or lose VNOC. EU offers unconditional long extension. May refuses. What then?
How, in practical terms do MPs, including Cabinet Ministers, take control from a rogue PM?
May would rather no deal than revoke - that much is certain. After that she'll get fucked right off in short order. Then the tories need a once-in-a-generation dissembler to persuade the great unsoaped that everything is, in fact and contrary to all appearances, just great in Aggressively Managed WTO Deal Global Britain. Step forward Boris.
I've just signed it. Whilst on a Brexit conference call planning our immediate actions now that we assume its no deal...
Did you not plan for this eventuality in advance?
Planning for No Deal is one thing; not knowing whether you'll need to implement those plans 8 days before DDay is reasonable grounds for irritation IMO.
Apparently it is now the biggest online UK petition in history according to several news sources
Well that's fake news. The one on a second referendum did get over 4 million in the immediate aftermath of June 23rd 2016 and one on banning Donald Trump got over 1.5m
So the petition has reached 500,000 so will need to be debated in Parliament. I wonder if that will be today, tomorrow or Monday as Bercow could prioritise it above everything else.
And that gives everyone a way out - put revoke to a vote and see who actually votes against.
Isn't there a validation process that needs to be carried out to make sure they are real people ?
There is a validation process.
You can be sure it isn't Russian bots. They don't want revoke!
I think they’d be fine with that
They want turmoil and discontent. They don’t care how.
It's still 17.4m vs 500k and I'd guess that 500k won't move much further as it reflects a Westminster nerds bubble (which includes me)
So the petition has reached 500,000 so will need to be debated in Parliament. I wonder if that will be today, tomorrow or Monday as Bercow could prioritise it above everything else.
And that gives everyone a way out - put revoke to a vote and see who actually votes against.
Isn't there a validation process that needs to be carried out to make sure they are real people ?
There is a validation process.
You can be sure it isn't Russian bots. They don't want revoke!
I think they’d be fine with that
They want turmoil and discontent. They don’t care how.
Remember the truth of the origins of russian interference in American political discourse wasn't backing trump, it was creating all sorts of targeted online groups across politics / race / religion and amplifying certain news that would enrage each group.
So the petition has reached 500,000 so will need to be debated in Parliament. I wonder if that will be today, tomorrow or Monday as Bercow could prioritise it above everything else.
And that gives everyone a way out - put revoke to a vote and see who actually votes against.
Isn't there a validation process that needs to be carried out to make sure they are real people ?
There is a validation process.
You can be sure it isn't Russian bots. They don't want revoke!
I think they’d be fine with that
They want turmoil and discontent. They don’t care how.
It's still 17.4m vs 500k and I'd guess that 500k won't move much further as it reflects a Westminster nerds bubble (which includes me)
I'd be surprised at that. Once it gets news attention it will only increase the momentum.
I expect TM will not bring MV3 to the HC unless there is a chance of it passing.
I expect indicative votes early next week and depending on the results, TM will either proceed with MV3 or tack towards Norway
Irrelevant. Pass the deal (will not happen). Revoke at the last minute. Or crash out.
What is better for the country - the collapse of the government this weekend or the weekend after? It WILL collapse. Just a question of when.
Yes this is a correct summation of the position IMO. And I guess Barnier is appraising Corbyn of that in Brussels today. The EU is not going to begin negotiations on a Norway option or any other option. It is make your mind up time - revoke or no deal.
Prediction Panicked 12th hour revoke Government collapses and GE called. Brexit Party coalesces 35% via furious leavers against split remainers PM Farsge takes us out no deal, no referendum, no negotiation Civil unrest unseen in modern times
The petition website is down again. Not surprising. I just clocked sign up at 3,762 per minute. I'd suggest a workaround where we give people bits of paper where they can tick their preference and put it in a box.
So the petition has reached 500,000 so will need to be debated in Parliament. I wonder if that will be today, tomorrow or Monday as Bercow could prioritise it above everything else.
And that gives everyone a way out - put revoke to a vote and see who actually votes against.
Isn't there a validation process that needs to be carried out to make sure they are real people ?
There is a validation process.
You can be sure it isn't Russian bots. They don't want revoke!
I think they’d be fine with that
They want turmoil and discontent. They don’t care how.
It's still 17.4m vs 500k and I'd guess that 500k won't move much further as it reflects a Westminster nerds bubble (which includes me)
I'd be surprised at that. Once it gets news attention it will only increase the momentum.
We'll see. I only ever express my opinion, never pretend to know the will of the people or how the future will turn out, as seems to be the inclination of many politicians, economists, media types and quite a few posters on here.
Well count me down as one of those weird people. Allowing people to vote without implementing what they decided is not democratic. The vote must be implemented first, then if people want to call another vote to rejoin then that would be perfectly democratic.
Prediction Panicked 12th hour revoke Government collapses and GE called. Brexit Party coalesces 35% via furious leavers against split remainers PM Farsge takes us out no deal, no referendum, no negotiation Civil unrest unseen in modern times
that's what I call ramping up the excitement levels
I expect TM will not bring MV3 to the HC unless there is a chance of it passing.
I expect indicative votes early next week and depending on the results, TM will either proceed with MV3 or tack towards Norway
Irrelevant. Pass the deal (will not happen). Revoke at the last minute. Or crash out.
What is better for the country - the collapse of the government this weekend or the weekend after? It WILL collapse. Just a question of when.
Or if the deal doesn't pass, the European Council may grant an eight-week extension despite what Tusk has said. I find it difficult to imagine their refusing that, if the alternative is an immediate No Deal.
PM Farsge takes us out no deal, no referendum, no negotiation
PM Farage would come up against the limits of state power just as May has. It's not possible to 'no deal' without the two year Article 50 period.
Incorrect. There is no need for a two year period. It is only there if negotiation is required
That's not true under EU law. The only way to bring forward the exit date is via a negotiated agreement. 'No Deal' by definition is the absence of an agreement and only happens after the two years.
Well count me down as one of those weird people. Allowing people to vote without implementing what they decided is not democratic. The vote must be implemented first, then if people want to call another vote to rejoin then that would be perfectly democratic.
So the petition has reached 500,000 so will need to be debated in Parliament. I wonder if that will be today, tomorrow or Monday as Bercow could prioritise it above everything else.
And that gives everyone a way out - put revoke to a vote and see who actually votes against.
Isn't there a validation process that needs to be carried out to make sure they are real people ?
There is a validation process.
You can be sure it isn't Russian bots. They don't want revoke!
I think they’d be fine with that
They want turmoil and discontent. They don’t care how.
Remember the truth of the origins of russian interference in American political discourse wasn't backing trump, it was creating all sorts of targeted online groups across politics / race / religion and amplifying certain news that would enrage each group.
And they’re going to use the same playbook trolling the Democrats in the next year. Wait for the fake news that candidate X is in favour of 40-week abortions, or giving US citizenship to anyone who turns up at the border
I've been keeping some stats so I can run some tests to see if there are any obvious signs of malpractice. But the interest on Twitter, and indeed on this forum, suggests it is a genuinely high level of participation. And why would foreign players be backing the policy that is advantageous to the UK? Players that don't have the UK's interests at heart would be backing Brexit.
That's not necessarily the case. Russian information warfare campaigns usually back both, or all, sides to cause as much polarisation and disruption as possible. So it can make sense from a "cause trouble" point of view to back apparently contradicatory views.
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCztiayy55I
He mentions in the book that in the sixties it took 400,000-600,000 sales to get to Number 1. By the nineties that was down to 20,000-30,000.
God knows what it is now. Probably bugger all.
I can only imagine that Mrs May put Grayling in charge of the website
Still, just as well Britain holds all the cards, eh?
If they did not like TM deal they should have replaced her but not only did she win her party vonc she won her governments vonc
She has lots of faults but sadly there is not one other mp who could command Parliament at present apart from Ken Clarke
90% overnight while people are in bed.
Aren't foreign bot farms great.
Do you remember that tweet yesterday suggesting the opposition parties were to meet May "and, separately, David Lidington" last night?
I can't for one moment imagine it wouldn't have leaked if anything substantive had taken place.. but I do wonder whether there's a non-May Plan B being drawn up for the day after MV3.
Scenario: MV3 defeated on Mon, May on an immediate Point of Order says she's had enough and flounces out; DL asks the house, if not for its confidence, then for backing to go to Brussels for a longer extension pending (probably) a GE. EU agrees on Thursday, everyone enjoys the weekend then comes back for a FTPA vote on Monday.
I expect indicative votes early next week and depending on the results, TM will either proceed with MV3 or tack towards Norway
Its a nice bit of exercise wandering around nice touristy parts of central London - and seems it will be a dry day. So good luck to them all! But London and the London based media have been lecturing the country it got it wrong since 24 June 2016!
Still 16.7m behind
Afterwards, of course, he and all other Leavers would totally have accepted a result that had gone the other way. Honest.
May chose a strategy of brinkmanship, she narrowed down the options despite all the feedback that her deal would not pass. She led us to this point.
In any case, she is PM. The buck stops with the PM.
If it was 2000/min this morning, I watched it ticking up at around 1am last night, and that was going at around 350/min. That's not inconsistent.
You're just casting cheap aspersions based on nothing but your own biases.
EDIT: Always amazed at the capability of Android keyboard to mangle sentences beyond recognition.
On that note, if only the likes of Lisa Nandy's self-awareness matched their egos - to say that you'll vote against what you feel is in the best interests of the country to spite someone who's criticised you demonstrates quite clearly how valid those criticisms are.
What May does not recognise is that - however honourable her intentions- her actions have played a huge part in putting us here. In footballing parlance, she's lost the dressing room and the players have gone rogue. It's easy to see why - she's not listened to other points of view, she's attempted to bully people into submission, and she's led her team to a series of huge defeats against relegation fodder opposition. These are marks of weak not strong leadership and when people on all sides of her cabinet told her Chequers was a disaster, she should have changed course.
Anyway, we are where we are but she will be gone sooner rather than later, hopefully having secured a deal. Challenging as it is, a strong leader (and this applies equally to labour) would have found a way for the likes of Mogg, Clarke, Johnson and Grieve to agree a way forward. Cameron would. So would Blair. So would Thatcher. And of those names, the only person in parliament that has embodied the parliamentary principles of compromise and finding a way - very much against his own beliefs - is Ken Clarke. A man in a festering pond of juveniles. And an ideal Caretaker PM once May has finally exited.
A busy day for the guy at the record company who does the ‘clean’ radio edits.
1. Mrs May immediately resigns as leader and PM and says it is up to parliament. Who is interim PM for the rest of the week? Lidington? May?
2. Mrs May doesn't resign but government loses VONC as some Tory MPs renege in desperation. Who is interim PM for the rest of the week? Lidington? May?
3. Mrs May doesn't resign or lose VNOC. EU offers unconditional long extension. May refuses. What then?
How, in practical terms do MPs, including Cabinet Ministers, take control from a rogue PM?
I think it may make 4m
Perhaps the same will apply to a No Deal Brexit.
https://youtu.be/BBi-KXc0CRk
A big drop in food sales but non-food stores did very well - the High Street chains seem to be doing rather better than they did a year ago.
I'd be interested if someone could provide details of retail closures / job losses / profit warnings compared to previous years.
The earlier prediction of a million by lunchtime needs to be revised to million by mid morning tea break.
https://twitter.com/merica/status/1108564763003547648
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/gordon-brown/6409786/72000-people-sign-petition-calling-for-Gordon-Brown-to-resign.html
Regarding No Deal - I would avoid it at all costs and think it's is absolutely idiotic to crash out. If a person did die, (just one!) through a lack of medication it would be appalling and the government would be held responsible. It's not worth the risk.
So I'd take May's Deal but I'd also happily accept a new referendum.
I also think Leave would win a new referendum and the political/constitutional fallout from that would dwarf what we are seeing now.
That's why I guess the brains trust in parliament are busy ramming it into everybody that the best thing to do right now is vote for May's Deal, end the uncertainty, and move on to new arguments.
Shortly after I woke up I saw it hit 400 000 and again posted here to that effect. Check my posting history and the timestamps if you don’t believe me.
So your “90% when people are in bed” doesn’t hold water.
Forcing Remain back on the ballot is not.
But MPs don’t want to take that path
I shall not, however, be signing it myself.
They want turmoil and discontent. They don’t care how.
What is better for the country - the collapse of the government this weekend or the weekend after? It WILL collapse. Just a question of when.
Revoke Article 50 and make it government policy to invoke it again in the fullness of time when sufficient preparations have been made.
Accept the Deal
Leave with No Deal
Revoke
Were the last option chosen various options are then available (one of which is to remain, the other is to leave again)..
Sure - we have done a lot already. But the final stage of our contingency planning costs us further money so we've held off.
Panicked 12th hour revoke
Government collapses and GE called.
Brexit Party coalesces 35% via furious leavers against split remainers
PM Farsge takes us out no deal, no referendum, no negotiation
Civil unrest unseen in modern times