Even more impressive when the party doesn’t even exist yet...:
On the contrary, it's much easier to poll well when you don't exist. You can instead be seen as a blank slate onto which unhappy voters can project their own personal preferences.
Surely worth remembering that Jezza and co wanted rid of these 7 MP’s
Snip in here. s a group?
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Nothing to do with any change in the make up of the membership? Nothing to do with the unequivocal support the leader gives to Palestinian causes giving the more extreme supporters the confidence and freedom to express As views publicly? Nothing to do with any retribution for expressing AS views amounting to no punishment in most cases?
The views are legitimised by the actions of the leadership and party machinary.
1. Bans for consistent blockquote offenders IMO...
2. The party membership hasn't changed a whole lot since 2016, the vast majority were already in by then.
3. The last leader gave support to Palestinian causes as well, same policies of recognising Palestine and stopping weapon sales to Israel.
4. We'll see what kind of punishment the group gives Angela Smith, will she even get a suspension I wonder?
5. Chuka doesn't give a damn about racism, some of the people's vote crowd are annoyed that Chuka seemed to be maneuvering for himself rather than for their cause.
6. Chuka came to this view when it suited his purposes because Chuka is about Chuka.
1. I'm guilty 2. I suspect it has. Some are also emboldened by the feeling of success generated by JC performance in 2017 election. The membership isn't static there is churn. 3. In a more balenced way than the JC position. I don't have a problem with some pro Palestinian policy or any Israel policy. A balance is good, a balance is what JC lacks. 4. Minimal to none I expect. It wasn't violent, vicious and directed at an individual. Probably won't allow her to be a spokesperson, so we all win. 5. Politician on maneuvers to promote career. I'm shocked 6. That could well be true.
How much else do they actually disagree with him on?
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
When asked to spell out clear differences between themselves and Labour, Chucks 7 list the fact the whole Labour Party is institutionally anti Semite (implying entryism has made it this way, because just a few years ago it wasn’t on the radar, certainly not when the son of Jewish refugee was leader, though some Blairite electioneering such as Howard as Fagin had a whiff of it), clearly they detest the Labour leader for not being rabidly pro remain as they are, Chucks 7 give impression they won’t honour the 2016 referendum, on C4 Chuck also listed differences on foreign policy, and that’s much more interesting, there is a clear schism in whole Labour movement, with strident views on each side over foreign policy, much to Corbyns advantage as the centre ground belongs to Corbyn and libdems in not wishing to repeat the foreign policy errors of the new labour era.
Aside from genuine concerns about taking abuse for standing up to antisemitism, whole tigger launch had a huge air of naivety to it imo, old meaningless empty vessels like new kind of politics, away from the tribalism, 21st century time to look forward trotted out oblivious to the fact first past the post knifes their intentions through the heart. With PV, yeah, a chance for them to build a centre ground rival to the libdems, with FPtP no chance for them. They can’t even end up in the libdems with reactionary right wing views on foreign policy. In the Tories under a moderate Cammo or Osborne type leader is natural home for all seven. Will be interesting to see if that’s where they end up
Does the centre ground on foreign policy belong to Jezza? Hates NATO, US, EU. Loves Russia, Iran. Has Milne as his director of, well, everything: someone who appears to believe Mao was essentially correct.
I agree. For "dots" read "dotty"
Yes I do. I think Jez foreign policy has the backing of the Labour membership, its the PLP (and tiggers) out of step in that regard. I don’t think Jez anti Iraq war position and other foreign policy position is all that different than the libdems. I think voters are behind them. Perhaps you need to look at yourselves, if you genuinely believe Jez and Milne are more in favour of Iran and Russia than they are british patriots wanting best for Britain.
Even more impressive when the party doesn’t even exist yet...:
On the contrary, it's much easier to poll well when you don't exist. You can instead be seen as a blank slate onto which unhappy voters can project their own personal preferences.
And, relatedly, it's easier for MPs to support Brexit deals which don't exist vs ones which do of course.
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Since 2016 and since 2017 especially the far left have increasingly felt it is ok to be openly institutionally racist and Corbyn tolerates it.
Ahh yes pure coincidence that as Chuka looked further from power Labour become institutionally racist according to him, poor loyal limelight avoiding foot soldier Chuka forced out into the bright lights...
A reluctant hero for our times.
Do you think Chuka is a) closer to, or b) further away from power than he was 24 hours ago?
Power is no closer or further away, what he will get now is lots more attention, the kind of attention he thinks a politician of his standing deserves.
If the plebs aren't enlightened enough to crown him leader than he shall instead give them the benefit of his wisdom from his new position, where the plebs can't get in the way by preferring other people.
Surely worth remembering that Jezza and co wanted rid of these 7 MP’s
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
When asked to spell out clear differences between themselves and Labour, Chucks 7 list the fact the whole Labour Party is institutionally anti Semite (implying entryism has made it this way, because just a few years ago it wasn’t on the radar, certainly not when the son of Jewish refugee was leader, though some Blairite electioneering such as Howard as Fagin had a whiff of it), clearly they detest the Labour leader for not being rabidly pro remain as they are, Chucks 7 give impression they won’t honour the 2016 referendum, on C4 Chuck also listed differences on foreign policy, and that’s much more interesting, there is a clear schism in whole Labour movement, with strident views on each side over foreign policy, much to Corbyns advantage as the centre ground belongs to Corbyn and libdems in not wishing to repeat the foreign policy errors of the new labour era.
Aside from genuine concerns about taking abuse for standing up to antisemitism, whole tigger launch had a huge air of naivety to it imo, old meaningless empty vessels like new kind of politics, away from the tribalism, 21st century time to look forward trotted out oblivious to the fact first past the post knifes their intentions through the heart. With PV, yeah, a chance for them to build a centre ground rival to the libdems, with FPtP no chance for them. They can’t even end up in the libdems with reactionary right wing views on foreign policy. In the Tories under a moderate Cammo or Osborne type leader is natural home for all seven. Will be interesting to see if that’s where they end up
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Do you think Chuka is a) closer to, or b) further away from power than he was 24 hours ago?
The day chuck pulled out leadership race he was odds on to win, arguably could have prevented corbyn victory if he had stayed in. He didn’t like the press intrusion into his family? That was moment this career hit its peak, the greasy pole too greasy for his sensitive hands
Even more impressive when the party doesn’t even exist yet...:
On the contrary, it's much easier to poll well when you don't exist. You can instead be seen as a blank slate onto which unhappy voters can project their own personal preferences.
A bit like how in 2012, "generic Republican" (a blank slate that people can project their own preferences onto) was usually ahead of Obama in polling, yet when Obama was pitted against every actual Republican candidate, Obama was ahead.
How much else do they actually disagree with him on?
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
When asked to spell out clear differences between themselves and Labour, Chucks 7 list the fact the whole Labour Party is institutionally anti Semite (implying entryism has made it this way, because just a few years ago it wasn’t on the radar, certainly not when the son of Jewish refugee was leader, though some Blairite electioneering such as Howard as Fagin had a whiff of it), clearly they detest the Labour leader for not being rabidly pro remain as they are, Chucks 7 give impression they won’t honour the 2016 referendum, on C4 Chuck also listed differences on foreign policy, and that’s much more interesting, there is a clear schism in whole Labour movement, with strident views on each side over foreign policy, much to Corbyns advantage as the centre ground belongs to Corbyn and libdems in not wishing to repeat the foreign policy errors of the new labour era.
Aside from genuine concerns about taking abuse for standing up to antisemitism, whole tigger launch had a huge air of naivety to it imo, old meaningless empty vessels like new kind of politics, away from the tribalism, 21st century time to look forward trotted out oblivious to the fact first past the post knifes their intentions through the heart. With PV, yeah, a chance for them to build a centre ground rival to the libdems, with FPtP no chance for them. They can’t even end up in the libdems with reactionary right wing views on foreign policy. In the Tories under a moderate Cammo or Osborne type leader is natural home for all seven. Will be interesting to see if that’s where they end up
Does the centre ground on foreign policy belong to Jezza? Hates NATO, US, EU. Loves Russia, Iran. Has Milne as his director of, well, everything: someone who appears to believe Mao was essentially correct.
I agree. For "dots" read "dotty"
Yes I do. I think Jez foreign policy has the backing of the Labour membership, its the PLP (and tiggers) out of step in that regard. I don’t think Jez anti Iraq war position and other foreign policy position is all that different than the libdems. I think voters are behind them. Perhaps you need to look at yourselves, if you genuinely believe Jez and Milne are more in favour of Iran and Russia than they are british patriots wanting best for Britain.
Even more impressive when the party doesn’t even exist yet...:
On the contrary, it's much easier to poll well when you don't exist. You can instead be seen as a blank slate onto which unhappy voters can project their own personal preferences.
I was joking. I am not reading anything into this polling. I think we already knew there are a percentage of the electorate that are still new labour / Lib Dem orange book types, but beyond that there is all far too early and it was all very wishy washy what the tiggers would be even if they do get going.
1. Bans for consistent blockquote offenders IMO...
2. The party membership hasn't changed a whole lot since 2016, the vast majority were already in by then.
3. The last leader gave support to Palestinian causes as well, same policies of recognising Palestine and stopping weapon sales to Israel.
4. We'll see what kind of punishment the group gives Angela Smith, will she even get a suspension I wonder?
5. Chuka doesn't give a damn about racism, some of the people's vote crowd are annoyed that Chuka seemed to be maneuvering for himself rather than for their cause.
6. Chuka came to this view when it suited his purposes because Chuka is about Chuka.
1. I'm guilty 2. I suspect it has. Some are also emboldened by the feeling of success generated by JC performance in 2017 election. The membership isn't static there is churn. 3. In a more balenced way than the JC position. I don't have a problem with some pro Palestinian policy or any Israel policy. A balance is good, a balance is what JC lacks. 4. Minimal to none I expect. It wasn't violent, vicious and directed at an individual. Probably won't allow her to be a spokesperson, so we all win. 5. Politician on maneuvers to promote career. I'm shocked 6. That could well be true.
1. 2. There has been churn but I'd argue the vast majority of members now were members in 2016, we haven't added a huge amount since then and the numbers haven't rose much. 3. It is exactly the same policy wise as Eds. 4. Labour have kicked out people for less and are a 'problem party', I would have thought they would have higher standards than the party they are leaving considering it is apparently one of the main reasons they are leaving.
5 and 6. My point is that Chuka isn't doing this out of some moral crusade, his views have rather conveniently moved with what suits Chuka.
He came out against freedom of movement not long after the referendum, my personal suspicion is at this point he saw himself as a potential Labour leader, as time went on and he realised that wouldn't happen he took on the people vote campaign as a way to build his profile and support. He used anti semitism, just like he would have used any other random complaint he thought was justified or not, just a cynical excuse.
Lucianna is the only one I feel sorry for, the rest deserve electoral annihilation.
There were seat losses and wilderness times along the way, but are we really contending that the SDP splitters had worse political careers than had they remained in Labour?
If you reduce the third party share in 83 - it doesn't all go Labour. You still have the battle with Militant before Labour can win The Gang of Four are elder statespeople in 97 - do they really get a cabinet position?
Their only point of (career) opportunity is it they add a bit of gravitas in 92, Labour win and they get a portfolio for a couple of years - which maybe would not have matched their positions in earlier Labour governments.
It'll be a roller coaster, but I'm not convinced the Tiggers have diminished their political careers either.
But what about the other 25 defectors who went on to lose their seats in 1983 and were barely heard from again?
For me the key moment is team corbyn showed too much hubris and triumphalism in the summer of 17 (and to this day in fact!) Moderates wanted to come back in, and that was the moment to have started building a broader coalition, not because it would have been nice or easy, it would have been hard work, but it would have lent credibility to policies and cemented that support from voters that looks ethereal to me. The art of political power is to build such arrangements between you and them, for example if May had kept Davis, rabb, and boris in cabinet she would have passed a deal by now.
As a Labour member of 41 years who finally cancelled his direct debit 10 minutes ago, I agree with you.
That’s a mistake. Uncancel it.
That thing we agree on, less of the hubris and triumphalism, more tent building to imbed the corbyn platform was in their interest to have done it. The fact they didn’t do it, the fact their revolution is based on bubble of 2017 result and poll ratings means such a rocky time ahead, they won’t survive it.
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Since 2016 and since 2017 especially the far left have increasingly felt it is ok to be openly institutionally racist and Corbyn tolerates it.
Ahh yes pure coincidence that as Chuka looked further from power Labour become institutionally racist according to him, poor loyal limelight avoiding foot soldier Chuka forced out into the bright lights...
A reluctant hero for our times.
Do you think Chuka is a) closer to, or b) further away from power than he was 24 hours ago?
Power is no closer or further away, what he will get now is lots more attention, the kind of attention he thinks a politician of his standing deserves.
If the plebs aren't enlightened enough to crown him leader than he shall instead give them the benefit of his wisdom from his new position, where the plebs can't get in the way by preferring other people.
Surely worth remembering that Jezza and co wanted rid of these 7 MP’s
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
When asked to spell out clear differe
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Since 2016 and since 2017 especially the far left have increasingly felt it is ok to be openly institutionally racist and Corbyn tolerates it.
Ahh yes pure coincidence that as Chuka looked further from power Labour become institutionally racist according to him, poor loyal limelight avoiding foot soldier Chuka forced out into the bright lights...
A reluctant hero for our times.
Do you think Chuka is a) closer to, or b) further away from power than he was 24 hours ago?
For me the key moment is team corbyn showed too much hubris and triumphalism in the summer of 17 (and to this day in fact!) Moderates wanted to come back in, and that was the moment to have started building a broader coalition, not because it would have been nice or easy, it would have been hard work, but it would have lent credibility to policies and cemented that support from voters that looks ethereal to me. The art of political power is to build such arrangements between you and them, for example if May had kept Davis, rabb, and boris in cabinet she would have passed a deal by now.
As a Labour member of 41 years who finally cancelled his direct debit 10 minutes ago, I agree with you.
Whilst I think we disagree politically I am sorry you feel that way.
Hopefully in the future the party can be in a place where we both want to be members.
How much else do they actually disagree with him on?
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
W clearly they detest the Labour leader for not being rabidly pro remain as they are, Chucks 7 give impression they won’t honour the 2016 referendum, on C4 Chuck also listed differences on foreign policy, and that’s much more interesting, there is a clear schism in whole Labour movement, with strident views on each side over foreign policy, much to Corbyns advantage as the centre ground belongs to Corbyn and libdems in not wishing to repeat the foreign policy errors of the new labour era.
Aside from genuine concerns about taking abuse for standing up to antisemitism, whole tigger launch had a huge air of naivety to it imo, old meaningless empty vessels like new kind of politics, away from the tribalism, 21st century time to look forward trotted out oblivious to the fact first past the post knifes their intentions through the heart. With PV, yeah, a chance for them to build a centre ground rival to the libdems, with FPtP no chance for them. They can’t even end up in the libdems with reactionary right wing views on foreign policy. In the Tories under a moderate Cammo or Osborne type leader is natural home for all seven. Will be interesting to see if that’s where they end up
Does the centre ground on foreign policy belong to Jezza? Hates NATO, US, EU. Loves Russia, Iran. Has Milne as his director of, well, everything: someone who appears to believe Mao was essentially correct.
I agree. For "dots" read "dotty"
Yes I do. I think Jez foreign policy has the backing of the Labour membership, its the PLP (and tiggers) out of step in that regard. I don’t think Jez anti Iraq war position and other foreign policy position is all that different than the libdems. I think voters are behind them. Perhaps you need to look at yourselves, if you genuinely believe Jez and Milne are more in favour of Iran and Russia than they are british patriots wanting best for Britain.
dotty
Do you regard every Briton opposed to the Iraq war debacle from the start to be unpatriotic? Surely that’s the dotty position 😁
Where I would agree with you, the backstory of someone who has been protesting all their life ‘What are you rebelling against now?’ ‘What have you got?’ Don’t sit easy on a throne will a crown on their head.
Surely worth remembering that Jezza and co wanted rid of these 7 MP’s
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
When asked to spell out clear differe
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Since 2016 and since 2017 especially the far left have increasingly felt it is ok to be openly institutionally racist and Corbyn tolerates it.
Ahh yes pure coincidence that as Chuka looked further from power Labour become institutionally racist according to him, poor loyal limelight avoiding foot soldier Chuka forced out into the bright lights...
A reluctant hero for our times.
Do you think Chuka is a) closer to, or b) further away from power than he was 24 hours ago?
Chuka sees himself as the British Macron
He saw himself as the British Obama. Perhaps in a couple of years' time he'll see himself as the British KLOBUCHAR.
Surely worth remembering that Jezza and co wanted rid of these 7 MP’s
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
When asked to spell out clear differe
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Since 2016 and since 2017 especially the far left have increasingly felt it is ok to be openly institutionally racist and Corbyn tolerates it.
Ahh yes pure coincidence that as Chuka looked further from power Labour become institutionally racist according to him, poor loyal limelight avoiding foot soldier Chuka forced out into the bright lights...
A reluctant hero for our times.
Do you think Chuka is a) closer to, or b) further away from power than he was 24 hours ago?
Chuka sees himself as the British Macron
He saw himself as the British Obama. Perhaps in a couple of years' time he'll see himself as the British KLOBUCHAR.
Surely worth remembering that Jezza and co wanted rid of these 7 MP’s
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
When asked to spell out clear differe
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Since 2016 and since 2017 especially the far left have increasingly felt it is ok to be openly institutionally racist and Corbyn tolerates it.
Ahh yes pure coincidence that as Chuka looked further from power Labour become institutionally racist according to him, poor loyal limelight avoiding foot soldier Chuka forced out into the bright lights...
A reluctant hero for our times.
Do you think Chuka is a) closer to, or b) further away from power than he was 24 hours ago?
Chuka sees himself as the British Macron
He saw himself as the British Obama. Perhaps in a couple of years' time he'll see himself as the British KLOBUCHAR.
If Klobuchar won maybe but Macron showed how to win leading a centrist third party
Surely worth remembering that Jezza and co wanted rid of these 7 MP’s
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
When asked to spell out clear differe
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Since 2016 and since 2017 especially the far left have increasingly felt it is ok to be openly institutionally racist and Corbyn tolerates it.
Ahh yes pure coincidence that as Chuka looked further from power Labour become institutionally racist according to him, poor loyal limelight avoiding foot soldier Chuka forced out into the bright lights...
A reluctant hero for our times.
Do you think Chuka is a) closer to, or b) further away from power than he was 24 hours ago?
Chuka sees himself as the British Macron
Different voting system and culture here for him to break the mould of.
Surely worth remembering that Jezza and co wanted rid of these 7 MP’s
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
When asked to spell out clear differe
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Since 2016 and since 2017 especially the far left have increasingly felt it is ok to be openly institutionally racist and Corbyn tolerates it.
Ahh yes pure coincidence that as Chuka looked further from power Labour become institutionally racist according to him, poor loyal limelight avoiding foot soldier Chuka forced out into the bright lights...
A reluctant hero for our times.
Do you think Chuka is a) closer to, or b) further away from power than he was 24 hours ago?
Chuka sees himself as the British Macron
He saw himself as the British Obama. Perhaps in a couple of years' time he'll see himself as the British KLOBUCHAR.
If Klobuchar won maybe but Macron showed how to win leading a centrist third party
Labour, condemned to the Corbyn of history. Disaster.
The irony the biggest serial rebel couldn’t tolerate dissent or other views. Didn’t call off the attack dogs. Drove his own MPs away.
Corbyn is not Labour.
I thought Berger spoke very powerfully today, not just on antisemitism, but why she joined labour and what that it stood for.
Given her grandfather is Manny Shinwell, it would have been quite something if she hadn't joined Labour.
However, she was the most fluent and persuasive speaker at the launch. Gapes made some decent points. But the rest were a waste of space.
Chuka has such a bizarre speech pattern that it is just too much effort to listen to him say anything.
The Labour party she and others joined doesn't exist anymore. Or at the very least is on life support.
It has been infiltrated and taken over by a Marxist Cult.
The only surprise is why the major unions have gone along with all this (except Red Len, who is, well Red).
I agree - the Labour Party died when it failed to get rid of Corbyn after the VONC.
That combined with their egos and arrogance being multiplied exponentially since the 2017 election.
Many of the Labour voters did so not because they loved Corbyn or the far left, but because they didn't like the Tories/Brexit and wanted to prevent a huge Tory landslide majority. And because there was no viable alternative.
Ive been sayin* for a while on here that the confluence of Labour expecting to be well behind, or just behind, and Mays wish for a large majority to ram through Brexit and whatever other policies she wanted, gave a strong reason to vote labour as the only real way of stopping her. This has been interpreted as support for Corbyn brand of socialism.
Totally agree with you both. I call it a bubble that will go pop the moment we brexit on Chequers terms.
Where I would defend corbyn from the peoplesvote/remainer mob, clever ways May’s played the can kicking has cannily dragged it out, drawing sting from commons factions. The art of the game is not to fire till the gunpowder is dry enough, Corbyns at a numbers disadvantage in the commons whatever he really wants to table to force denouement .
Surely worth remembering that Jezza and co wanted rid of these 7 MP’s
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
When asked to spell out clear differe
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Since 2016 and since 2017 especially the far left have increasingly felt it is ok to be openly institutionally racist and Corbyn tolerates it.
Ahh yes pure coincidence that as Chuka looked further from power Labour become institutionally racist according to him, poor loyal limelight avoiding foot soldier Chuka forced out into the bright lights...
A reluctant hero for our times.
Do you think Chuka is a) closer to, or b) further away from power than he was 24 hours ago?
Chuka sees himself as the British Macron
Different voting system and culture here for him to break the mould of.
Macron got 24% in the first round, 1% less than the SDP got in 1987 but still came first helped by a right divided between Les Republicains and Front National. Umunna would similarly hope Farage's new Brexit Party would split the right-wing vote with the Tories
Surely worth remembering that Jezza and co wanted rid of these 7 MP’s
red on red like Thatchers two landslides in the eighties? 🤔
When asked to spell out clear differe
Chuka was also part of a cross party parliamentary group in 2016 that made comments along the lines of Labour being no more anti semitic than other parties.
It seems to have been since Corbyn did well in the 2017 election and the right looked further from power in the party that Labour has become institutionally racist.
Since 2016 and since 2017 especially the far left have increasingly felt it is ok to be openly institutionally racist and Corbyn tolerates it.
Ahh yes pure coincidence that as Chuka looked further from power Labour become institutionally racist according to him, poor loyal limelight avoiding foot soldier Chuka forced out into the bright lights...
A reluctant hero for our times.
Do you think Chuka is a) closer to, or b) further away from power than he was 24 hours ago?
Chuka sees himself as the British Macron
The idea that Chuka pictures himself sitting in an opulent palace lecturing the peasants on what is good for them is just offensive..
Salt of the earth is our Chuka.
Edit: On a slightly more serious note I haven't paid a huge amount of attention and I'm sure Macron is to the right of me but he strikes me as a much more serious politician than Chuka.
OK, so I've just come home from a holiday in India to some really exciting Party news. Would be interesting to see how many more Labour MPs jump ship in the next few days.
OK, so I've just come home from a holiday in India to some really exciting Party news. Would be interesting to see how many more Labour MPs jump ship in the next few days.
Will Wes Streeting join Mike Gapes in the Tiggers and make Ilford a one party Tigger state?
Perhaps they will have to rename Redbridge - as 'not so Red bridge'?
"That to my mind would be an irony of history. Yet I cannot rule it out," Juncker told Stuttgarter Zeitung in an interview. "Any decision to ask for more time lies with the UK. If such a request were to be made, no one in Europe would oppose it," he said.
What the new group needs most is not to become the Secret Seven. They need to continue grabbing the media's attention, and to show potential Labour voters that their vision for the party is better than Corbyn's.
This will be made harder by the fact they're not a party, but easier by Corbyn's Labour capability of scoring own goals.
What they cannot afford is to become invisible like the Lib Dems.
Since we haven't had one in a while (Survation, Mail)
Con: 32 Lab: 22 LibD: 6 SNP: 32 (rounded up from 31.51!)
(Base Size: 80 (for the humourless, for entertainment purposes only...)
You'll be buried under an avalanche of turnips for having the temerity to post that.
Joking apart (and this subsample tells us nothing) but you do have to wonder if Mr Gravity and the constant drip of bad news for the SNP (not that they have been alone in that - but perhaps some of the other parties 'bad news' is already priced in) is yet having an effect. They've had a good run, but nothing lasts forever.
"If such a request [for more time] were to be made, no one in Europe would oppose it," he said.
Brave, Mr President, very 'brave'. "No one"? All it needs is one.....
True, and you can't be 100% certain until it's done. But: 1) Unlike treaties which have to be taken home to national parliaments, Council of Ministers decisions have strong peer pressure 2) No Deal screws Britain and Ireland the most, but it also screws people and businesses in and from every member state. If you veto it you have to explain to your own voters why you screwed them - what's the issue of principle or the essential national interest that you'd use to explain it?
What the new group needs most is not to become the Secret Seven. They need to continue grabbing the media's attention, and to show potential Labour voters that their vision for the party is better than Corbyn's.
This will be made harder by the fact they're not a party, but easier by Corbyn's Labour capability of scoring own goals.
What they cannot afford is to become invisible like the Lib Dems.
While we joke that 'Don't Know' sometimes tops 'May' in the 'Best PM' scoring it has an overwhelming majority in the TIG leadership stakes:
If the independent group of former Labour MPs becomes a new political party with candidates standing for Parliament in the next General Election, which of the following do you think would make the best leader of the group?
Don't Know: 55 Umunna: 30 Berger: 8
And adding some 'star power' may not help:
If the independent group of former Labour MPs becomes a new political party with candidates standing for Parliament in the next General Election, would you be more or less likely to vote for it if Tony Blair was the leader rather than one of the MPs who formed the group?
More: 17 Less: 45 Neither: 25 DK: 12
So the challenge is, how do they stay in the news? More defections will help - but the 'Brexit' angle doesn't seem to be cutting through:
Which of the following do you think is the primary reason for the seven MPs to resign from the Labour party?
Corbyn leadership: 43 Anti-Semitism: 23 Labour Brexit stance: 17
This is hardly inspiring stuff from Klobuchar. She is not going to be the nominee, I think.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/18/amy-klobuchar-cnn-town-hall-1173790 Klobuchar again emphasized that she comes from a “different place” than many of her Democratic primary counterparts when explaining that she always thinks of her “Uncle Dick in the deer stand” when she considers gun control legislation....
Even more impressive when the party doesn’t even exist yet...:
On the contrary, it's much easier to poll well when you don't exist. You can instead be seen as a blank slate onto which unhappy voters can project their own personal preferences.
Even more impressive when the party doesn’t even exist yet...:
On the contrary, it's much easier to poll well when you don't exist. You can instead be seen as a blank slate onto which unhappy voters can project their own personal preferences.
A bit like how in 2012, "generic Republican" (a blank slate that people can project their own preferences onto) was usually ahead of Obama in polling, yet when Obama was pitted against every actual Republican candidate, Obama was ahead.
"Klobuchar again emphasized that she comes from a “different place” than many of her Democratic primary counterparts when explaining that she always thinks of her “Uncle Dick in the deer stand” when she considers gun control legislation"
Of course that is exactly the sort of language they need to defeat Trump in the mid west!
Comments
2. I suspect it has. Some are also emboldened by the feeling of success generated by JC performance in 2017 election. The membership isn't static there is churn.
3. In a more balenced way than the JC position. I don't have a problem with some pro Palestinian policy or any Israel policy. A balance is good, a balance is what JC lacks.
4. Minimal to none I expect. It wasn't violent, vicious and directed at an individual. Probably won't allow her to be a spokesperson, so we all win.
5. Politician on maneuvers to promote career. I'm shocked
6. That could well be true.
If the plebs aren't enlightened enough to crown him leader than he shall instead give them the benefit of his wisdom from his new position, where the plebs can't get in the way by preferring other people.
That was moment this career hit its peak, the greasy pole too greasy for his sensitive hands
2. There has been churn but I'd argue the vast majority of members now were members in 2016, we haven't added a huge amount since then and the numbers haven't rose much.
3. It is exactly the same policy wise as Eds.
4. Labour have kicked out people for less and are a 'problem party', I would have thought they would have higher standards than the party they are leaving considering it is apparently one of the main reasons they are leaving.
5 and 6. My point is that Chuka isn't doing this out of some moral crusade, his views have rather conveniently moved with what suits Chuka.
He came out against freedom of movement not long after the referendum, my personal suspicion is at this point he saw himself as a potential Labour leader, as time went on and he realised that wouldn't happen he took on the people vote campaign as a way to build his profile and support. He used anti semitism, just like he would have used any other random complaint he thought was justified or not, just a cynical excuse.
Lucianna is the only one I feel sorry for, the rest deserve electoral annihilation.
That thing we agree on, less of the hubris and triumphalism, more tent building to imbed the corbyn platform was in their interest to have done it. The fact they didn’t do it, the fact their revolution is based on bubble of 2017 result and poll ratings means such a rocky time ahead, they won’t survive it.
Hopefully in the future the party can be in a place where we both want to be members.
Where I would agree with you, the backstory of someone who has been protesting all their life
‘What are you rebelling against now?’
‘What have you got?’
Don’t sit easy on a throne will a crown on their head.
Better a chancy gardener.
Hey! What’s that coming over the hill...
Where I would defend corbyn from the peoplesvote/remainer mob, clever ways May’s played the can kicking has cannily dragged it out, drawing sting from commons factions. The art of the game is not to fire till the gunpowder is dry enough, Corbyns at a numbers disadvantage in the commons whatever he really wants to table to force denouement .
Salt of the earth is our Chuka.
Edit: On a slightly more serious note I haven't paid a huge amount of attention and I'm sure Macron is to the right of me but he strikes me as a much more serious politician than Chuka.
https://twitter.com/BazzieSmith/status/1096525013384077313
Perhaps they will have to rename Redbridge - as 'not so Red bridge'?
PS Hope you had a nice holiday!
https://twitter.com/gosbornegenius/status/1097688133053935617?s=21
https://www.politico.eu/article/jean-claude-juncker-brexit-delay-beyond-eu-election-is-possible/
European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said he could not rule out an extension to Britain's EU membership beyond the European Parliament elections in May.
"That to my mind would be an irony of history. Yet I cannot rule it out," Juncker told Stuttgarter Zeitung in an interview. "Any decision to ask for more time lies with the UK. If such a request were to be made, no one in Europe would oppose it," he said.
Since we haven't had one in a while (Survation, Mail)
Con: 32
Lab: 22
LibD: 6
SNP: 32 (rounded up from 31.51!)
(Base Size: 80 (for the humourless, for entertainment purposes only...)
Who would you prefer as PM?
Corbyn vs May:
Corbyn: 29
May: 48
Corbyn vs Umunna (Lab 2017 voters)
Corbyn: 25 (48)
Umunna: 28 (23)
Umunna vs May
Umunna: 27
May: 44
If 'Umunna' is the answer, you're asking the wrong question.....
This will be made harder by the fact they're not a party, but easier by Corbyn's Labour capability of scoring own goals.
What they cannot afford is to become invisible like the Lib Dems.
1) Unlike treaties which have to be taken home to national parliaments, Council of Ministers decisions have strong peer pressure
2) No Deal screws Britain and Ireland the most, but it also screws people and businesses in and from every member state. If you veto it you have to explain to your own voters why you screwed them - what's the issue of principle or the essential national interest that you'd use to explain it?
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Honda-to-shut-UK-plant-by-2022-in-another-Brexit-retreat
If the independent group of former Labour MPs becomes a new political party with candidates standing for Parliament in the next General Election, which of the following do you think would make the best leader of the group?
Don't Know: 55
Umunna: 30
Berger: 8
And adding some 'star power' may not help:
If the independent group of former Labour MPs becomes a new political party with candidates standing for Parliament in the next General Election, would you be more or less likely to vote for it if Tony Blair was the leader rather than one of the MPs who formed the group?
More: 17
Less: 45
Neither: 25
DK: 12
So the challenge is, how do they stay in the news? More defections will help - but the 'Brexit' angle doesn't seem to be cutting through:
Which of the following do you think is the primary reason for the seven MPs to resign from the Labour party?
Corbyn leadership: 43
Anti-Semitism: 23
Labour Brexit stance: 17
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/18/amy-klobuchar-cnn-town-hall-1173790
Klobuchar again emphasized that she comes from a “different place” than many of her Democratic primary counterparts when explaining that she always thinks of her “Uncle Dick in the deer stand” when she considers gun control legislation....
Interesting.
Of course that is exactly the sort of language they need to defeat Trump in the mid west!