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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This could be right – Corbyn blocking moves for a second refer

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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,732
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1097576499790708736

    Indeed. You were warned Owen. Repeatedly. Time and time again, that this would happen if nothing was done about Jezza's 'leadership'.

    It's the blind assumption that the potential voters for the new party would all otherwise have voted Labour that is so arrogant and complacent.
    .
    Nothing new in that. Not to be too mean, but a certain ex Lab MP on here once referred to LDs voting LD as a betrayal in a theoretical by-election because it took votes which, of course, would only have gone Labour.
    That gives a whole new meaning to "owning the Libs".
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    The important thing is being not the Tories.

    And while I don't like Corbyn, with the vast majority of MPs remaining including the vast majority of pre Corbyn ones, they must think Labour is still Labour.
    kle4 said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    The important thing is being not the Tories.

    And while I don't like Corbyn, with the vast majority of MPs remaining including the vast majority of pre Corbyn ones, they must think Labour is still Labour.
    Interviewees on the radio did not seem very supportive of the 7. Likely the same would be true in Salcombe and Bassingbourn if Wollaston and Allen jump ship.
    They would more likely join the Lib Dems who could get them reelected in their constituencies Incidentally, Royston is not in Heidi Allen's patch.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Fenman said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    The important thing is being not the Tories.

    And while I don't like Corbyn, with the vast majority of MPs remaining including the vast majority of pre Corbyn ones, they must think Labour is still Labour.
    kle4 said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    The important thing is being not the Tories.

    And while I don't like Corbyn, with the vast majority of MPs remaining including the vast majority of pre Corbyn ones, they must think Labour is still Labour.
    Interviewees on the radio did not seem very supportive of the 7. Likely the same would be true in Salcombe and Bassingbourn if Wollaston and Allen jump ship.
    They would more likely join the Lib Dems who could get them reelected in their constituencies Incidentally, Royston is not in Heidi Allen's patch.
    Notice Royston corrected to Bassingbourn, which is correct.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    The important thing is being not the Tories.

    And while I don't like Corbyn, with the vast majority of MPs remaining including the vast majority of pre Corbyn ones, they must think Labour is still Labour.
    kle4 said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    The important thing is being not the Tories.

    And while I don't like Corbyn, with the vast majority of MPs remaining including the vast majority of pre Corbyn ones, they must think Labour is still Labour.
    Interviewees on the radio did not seem very supportive of the 7. Likely the same would be true in Salcombe and Bassingbourn if Wollaston and Allen jump ship.
    They would more likely join the Lib Dems who could get them reelected in their constituencies Incidentally, Royston is not in Heidi Allen's patch.
    Notice Royston corrected to Bassingbourn, which is correct.
    Mea culpa
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Some very angry workers walking out of the Honda factory. They seem to be blaming the government. Must be because they gave them a referendum.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,727
    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    The important thing is being not the Tories.

    And while I don't like Corbyn, with the vast majority of MPs remaining including the vast majority of pre Corbyn ones, they must think Labour is still Labour.
    kle4 said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    The important thing is being not the Tories.

    And while I don't like Corbyn, with the vast majority of MPs remaining including the vast majority of pre Corbyn ones, they must think Labour is still Labour.
    Interviewees on the radio did not seem very supportive of the 7. Likely the same would be true in Salcombe and Bassingbourn if Wollaston and Allen jump ship.
    They would more likely join the Lib Dems who could get them reelected in their constituencies Incidentally, Royston is not in Heidi Allen's patch.
    Notice Royston corrected to Bassingbourn, which is correct.
    So would Cambourne. ;)

    Shame I;m currently enjoying the wonders of Burnley ...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    Derek Hatton is millionaire property speculator. I don't think low tax people have anything to worry about from him. At least Blair pretends to act in the public service. And he is a lot more in tune with the Labour Party on Brexit, compared with Corbyn whose policy is actually Tory.

    It's all very Animal Farm.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,712
    edited February 2019
    Significant move in Year of next GE market today.

    However 2019 has remained steady at 2.7.

    The move is 2020 in (to 4.5) and 2022 out (to 3.5).

    All four possible years are now rated as having a significant chance - with 2021 the outsider at 7.4.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    _Anazina_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Endillion said:

    Remind me what Tiggers stands for?

    The Independent Group. Ers.

    Wait, where's the second G coming from?
    Well, pronouncing it 'Tye Jers' just seems wrong, so the extra G is added to match the easier pronunciation.
    Indeed. As in kipper.

    Otherwise they’d be the Tigers! Roar!!
    I wish to point out that my father has been called Tigger most of his life (to the extent that most people in the City don’t recognise his real name).

    It is very confusing reading all these posts.., and @kle4 you should wash your mouth out with soap!
  • FF43 said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    Derek Hatton is millionaire property speculator. I don't think low tax people have anything to worry about from him. At least Blair pretends to act in the public service. And he is a lot more in tune with the Labour Party on Brexit, compared with Corbyn whose policy is actually Tory.

    It's all very Animal Farm.
    I thought he lost all his money from property?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited February 2019
    .
  • I don’t really get Owen Jones’ reaction. He and his lot wanted moderates gone, so they (well, some) are gone. I don’t actually feel this group will make much of a difference to Labour’s chances next time. Most people don’t know who these MPs are and whatever people think of Corbyn many voters are not happy with the status quo, which seems is what this new group of MPs stand for.

    If you repeatedly shout f off and join the Tories, then maybe they might. Or at least sit in the middle.

    Owen should be delighted. The cleansing has begun and no need for deselection processes and tedious stuff like CLP votes.
  • So if there was a GE, these defectors could not stand for Labour right?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    The article uses a male pronoun...
  • Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    glw said:

    On the other big news of the day, what can the government do to help the people at Honda and Swindon in general wrt the medium- and long-term future?

    Quiet probably nothing at all. The car industry is going to change radically as automation and electric vehicles transform the industry. I expect that we will see major companies go to the wall, much consolidation, and new entrants eating up market share. It's going to be a bit like what the microprocessor did to the computer industry, a lot of very large mainframe companies disappeared when they couldn't survive the transition.
    I was having lunch in Italy today - my companion mentioned that Fiat’s sales were down 26% this year

    (They have chunky diesel business)

    With a high operating leverage business like auto that’s a killer
  • Scott_P said:
    Not sure Ken will agree with Anna's stance on this, if true, which I sceptical of.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?

    On Brexit? No. So don't worry about it.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2019

    I don’t really get Owen Jones’ reaction. He and his lot wanted moderates gone, so they (well, some) are gone. I don’t actually feel this group will make much of a difference to Labour’s chances next time. Most people don’t know who these MPs are and whatever people think of Corbyn many voters are not happy with the status quo, which seems is what this new group of MPs stand for.

    Whilst I don't feel "betrayed" or whatever by these MPs leaving, I don't get how people can be surprised at Owen Jones (and other Labour supporters) criticising the new party and countering some of their arguments.

    Like....this is politics. The defectors have chosen to have the same status vis-a-vis Labour as the Tories, Greens, Lib Dems et al. -- they've chosen to be Labour's political opponents. So why would Labour supporters be treating them any differently than they treat other political opponents?
  • Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?

    They announced after a year long scientific study that Jaffa cakes are definitely not biscuits. Other than that, not much.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    _Anazina_ said:

    The big news today is that my coined moniker of Tiggers has been enthusiastically adopted, right here on PB. The correct styling is Tiggers, as in the plural of the famous Pooh character, and not TIGgers, nor any other awkward formulation.

    Bounce!

    The wonderful thing about Tiggers
    Is Tiggers are wonderful things.....

    They're Corbyn-bouncing
    Corbyn-trouncing
    Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    The Independent Group isn't a bad name. Sounds corporate. People are pissed off with political parties
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    The important thing is being not the Tories.

    And while I don't like Corbyn, with the vast majority of MPs remaining including the vast majority of pre Corbyn ones, they must think Labour is still Labour.
    kle4 said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    The important thing is being not the Tories.

    And while I don't like Corbyn, with the vast majority of MPs remaining including the vast majority of pre Corbyn ones, they must think Labour is still Labour.
    Interviewees on the radio did not seem very supportive of the 7. Likely the same would be true in Salcombe and Bassingbourn if Wollaston and Allen jump ship.
    VoxPops and radio call ins mean sod all.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    It's the one who shot off about mogg last week, the story was touted as relevant to news to follow in coming weeks,......
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?

    Nothing much, though the name of Star Wars 9 is imminent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Roger said:

    The Independent Group isn't a bad name. Sounds corporate. People are pissed off with political parties

    Is there proof of that? Hatred of one political party seems like it is keeping their opponents in good business.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    _Anazina_ said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1097587824575082496
    They probably hated Tony Benn as well. Virtually a Blairite. I mean he served under Wilson.
    I don’t think they hate Benn.
    Only Emily Benn.
    And Hilary Benn.
    _Anazina_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1097587824575082496
    They probably hated Tony Benn as well. Virtually a Blairite. I mean he served under Wilson.
    I don’t think they hate Benn.
    Only Emily Benn.
    And Hilary Benn.
    _Anazina_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1097587824575082496
    They probably hated Tony Benn as well. Virtually a Blairite. I mean he served under Wilson.
    I don’t think they hate Benn.
    Only Emily Benn.
    And Hilary Benn.
    And Mr Benn.
    They even hate Gentle Ben. The baskets
    There is toxic groundswell of loathing for Uncle Ben.
  • murali_s said:

    Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?

    Nothing much, though the name of Star Wars 9 is imminent.
    Star Wars 9 - it isn’t as shit as the hans solo movie, we promise!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469
    Danny565 said:

    I don’t really get Owen Jones’ reaction. He and his lot wanted moderates gone, so they (well, some) are gone. I don’t actually feel this group will make much of a difference to Labour’s chances next time. Most people don’t know who these MPs are and whatever people think of Corbyn many voters are not happy with the status quo, which seems is what this new group of MPs stand for.

    Whilst I don't feel "betrayed" or whatever by these MPs leaving, I don't get how people can be surprised at Owen Jones (and other Labour supporters) criticising the new party and countering some of their arguments.

    Like....this is politics. Why would Labour supporters be treating defectors with kid gloves, when they're (presumably) going to be standing against Labour in future elections?
    Because ultimately they have the same vision of a fair and just society, no matter what Owen Jones might say.

    Just without the agression, racism, dishonesty, and biggotry currently associated with the Labour Party.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    I owe Theresa May an apology by the way. Absent a resignation before the end of the week she will indeed have been PM longer than Spencer Percival. Gordon Brown next in her sights.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    _Anazina_ said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1097587824575082496
    They probably hated Tony Benn as well. Virtually a Blairite. I mean he served under Wilson.
    I don’t think they hate Benn.
    Only Emily Benn.
    And Hilary Benn.
    _Anazina_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1097587824575082496
    They probably hated Tony Benn as well. Virtually a Blairite. I mean he served under Wilson.
    I don’t think they hate Benn.
    Only Emily Benn.
    And Hilary Benn.
    _Anazina_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1097587824575082496
    They probably hated Tony Benn as well. Virtually a Blairite. I mean he served under Wilson.
    I don’t think they hate Benn.
    Only Emily Benn.
    And Hilary Benn.
    And Mr Benn.
    They even hate Gentle Ben. The baskets
    There is toxic groundswell of loathing for Uncle Ben.
    As long as pornstar Ben Dover has a home there all is good
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626

    Scott_P said:
    Not sure Ken will agree with Anna's stance on this, if true, which I sceptical of.
    Beware Wollaston joining you, guys. She'll sign up for about a fortnight, then depart in a really, really acromonious Twitter-spat......
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    Roger said:

    The Independent Group isn't a bad name. Sounds corporate. People are pissed off with political parties

    Sounds like an insurance company to me.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220

    Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?

    There was a splendid threader on SCOTUS
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited February 2019
    Danny565 said:

    I don’t really get Owen Jones’ reaction. He and his lot wanted moderates gone, so they (well, some) are gone. I don’t actually feel this group will make much of a difference to Labour’s chances next time. Most people don’t know who these MPs are and whatever people think of Corbyn many voters are not happy with the status quo, which seems is what this new group of MPs stand for.

    Whilst I don't feel "betrayed" or whatever by these MPs leaving, I don't get how people can be surprised at Owen Jones (and other Labour supporters) criticising the new party and countering some of their arguments.

    Like....this is politics. The defectors have chosen to have the same status vis-a-vis Labour as the Tories, Greens, Lib Dems et al. -- they've chosen to be Labour's political opponents. So why would Labour supporters be treating them any differently than they treat other political opponents?
    It's a bit much to shout and scream and stamp their feet and say these people are traitors who should leave Labour - and then shout and scream and stamp their feet and say these people are destroying Labour's prospects of winning when they actually do what you ask.

    It just makes them look stupid. Admittedly in the case of Owen Jones this isn't very hard as he is stupid.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    Derek Hatton FFS.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    murali_s said:

    Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?

    Nothing much, though the name of Star Wars 9 is imminent.
    Star Wars 9 - it isn’t as shit as the hans solo movie, we promise!
    I'll settle for it not being as shit as The Last Jedi.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    kle4 said:

    I owe Theresa May an apology by the way. Absent a resignation before the end of the week she will indeed have been PM longer than Spencer Percival. Gordon Brown next in her sights.

    Unfortunate phrasing given what happened to Perceval.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    I don’t really get Owen Jones’ reaction. He and his lot wanted moderates gone, so they (well, some) are gone. I don’t actually feel this group will make much of a difference to Labour’s chances next time. Most people don’t know who these MPs are and whatever people think of Corbyn many voters are not happy with the status quo, which seems is what this new group of MPs stand for.

    Whilst I don't feel "betrayed" or whatever by these MPs leaving, I don't get how people can be surprised at Owen Jones (and other Labour supporters) criticising the new party and countering some of their arguments.

    Like....this is politics. Why would Labour supporters be treating defectors with kid gloves, when they're (presumably) going to be standing against Labour in future elections?
    Because ultimately they have the same vision of a fair and just society, no matter what Owen Jones might say.

    Just without the agression, racism, dishonesty, and biggotry currently associated with the Labour Party.
    But, nonetheless, they've become Labour's opponents, through their own choice. The idea that they can make that choice, yet should still be entitled to special treatment from the organisation that they're going to be directly competing against, is bizarre.

    (In fact, one could say there's similarities between them and diehard Brexiteers, who still think Britain should leave the EU AND that it's outrageous that the EU aren't agreeing to give us benefits of EU membership.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    You are my Solksjaer - lol
  • Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?

    You missed a blinding thread on AV.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Roger said:

    The Independent Group isn't a bad name. Sounds corporate. People are pissed off with political parties

    It's just a holding position to enable the hoped for Tory joiners to co-found the new party.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Seems like a reasonable response to me - if the leadership has indeed been operating on the assumption that most remainers will go nowhere no matter what they do, and nor will most moderates, it may as well test that out properly. They might still be right.
    7 MPs for Degsy? Who is in charge of the Labour Swap Shop?

    I've got a Buckeroo. I'm looking for a Midlands MP.....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Jonathan said:

    Derek Hatton FFS.

    A multimillionaire property developer with a shady past, who made a vast fortune for himself while he racked up millions in debt for Liverpool and sacked all public sector workers by taxi as a publicity stunt.

    Welcome to the world of Jeremy Corbyn. You have been warned.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-socialist-firebrand-derek-hatton-screwed-liverpool-just-as-much-as-margaret-thatcher-did-8575030.html
  • Centre-left party - I think they could be done by the advertising standards authority if they try to claim that one!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Danny565 said:

    I don’t really get Owen Jones’ reaction. He and his lot wanted moderates gone, so they (well, some) are gone. I don’t actually feel this group will make much of a difference to Labour’s chances next time. Most people don’t know who these MPs are and whatever people think of Corbyn many voters are not happy with the status quo, which seems is what this new group of MPs stand for.

    Whilst I don't feel "betrayed" or whatever by these MPs leaving, I don't get how people can be surprised at Owen Jones (and other Labour supporters) criticising the new party and countering some of their arguments.

    Like....this is politics. The defectors have chosen to have the same status vis-a-vis Labour as the Tories, Greens, Lib Dems et al. -- they've chosen to be Labour's political opponents. So why would Labour supporters be treating them any differently than they treat other political opponents?
    Labour have been taken over by entryists. This is the beginning of an attempt to take the party back. Why should Corbyn and co feel betrayed?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    Richard Harrington I assume from wikipedia. Never heard of him.
  • kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Seems like a reasonable response to me - if the leadership has indeed been operating on the assumption that most remainers will go nowhere no matter what they do, and nor will most moderates, it may as well test that out properly. They might still be right.
    7 MPs for Degsy? Who is in charge of the Labour Swap Shop?

    I've got a Buckeroo. I'm looking for a Midlands MP.....
    :lol:
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Can't help feeling splits and rumours of splits is yet more displacement activity by our political class.
    The fact is that it is 938 hours to Brexit, and we still don't have a bloody clue what our political situation will be, the tariff schedule we will trade on, or what the status of Northern Ireland will be.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626

    Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?

    Supreme Court ruled that Die Hard is a Christmas movie.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?

    Supreme Court ruled that Die Hard is a Christmas movie.
    Enemies of the People!
  • glwglw Posts: 9,914
    Jonathan said:

    Derek Hatton FFS.

    I honestly think that is more indicative of what's gone wrong than the 7 MPs leaving.
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483

    Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?

    Pineapple has been discovered on a pizza at a buffet for a Labour party fundraising event.
    Seven MPs have left the party in disgust and there could be more to follow.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Is Galloway back yet ?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited February 2019
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    Richard Harrington I assume from wikipedia. Never heard of him.
    He was at the centre of the massive 8pm news embargo last week about mogg and co. Ut was hinted at the time it might make more sense in time......
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    Can't help but feel the Tiggers missed an opportunity to pick a name straight out of the first-episode-of-The-Apprentice school of shite names.

    Winners?
    The A-Team?
    Apex?
    Excel?
    The Good Guys?
    We Hate Labour?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Pulpstar said:

    Is Galloway back yet ?

    Won't be long now.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    The 7 should brand as Veritas and recruit Kilroy
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited February 2019
    @GreenHeron:

    The events of this morning have reinforced what I have been thinking for some time - that despite the cchaos that has been the government in recent times, Theresa May could end up in an unbelievably strong position in a couple of months.

    Furthermore, as someone who believes that a deal is by far the best (or least worst) outcome, I feel that May is finally going about this the right way. I have tried to "war game" her strategy and have concluded the following:

    1. Her ultimate goal is to put a deal to parliament with a compromise on the backstop. Thanks to the Brady amendment, she knows that this would have parliamentary backing and she is therefore able to tell the EU in clear terms what they need to do.

    Agreed

    2. As can be seen from the EU reaction to the prospect of No Deal in recent weeks, putting forward No Deal as the only alternative gives the EU incentive to negotiate in a collaborative manner.

    Disagree. The EU thinks talk of No Deal lacks seriousness. They have less incentive to compromise, bit more.

    3. Even in the event that she is unable to gain any kind of concession from the EU, the Spelman Amendment shows that there is a parliamentary majority against No Deal, so if she were to present any deal to parliament at the last minute with No Deal as the only alternative then she is also likely to win.

    Possibly. The risk is that we crash out anyway, not least by misjudging the EU's willingness to compromise. It's quite a trick to go from the full on No Deal rhetoric to saying, we never meant it. Dangerous if you try think No Deal is bad.

    4. While an extension to pass various bills may be required once a deal is agreed, an extension to negotiate a deal is both pointless (as we are only arguing one detail) and counterproductive, as unless she gets a full concession from the EU she needs the time pressure to get her deal through.

    Same answer as 3.


    5. The above only works if No Deal is the alternative position. Removing No Deal removes all incentive for the EU to negotiate collaboratively and allows MPs hoping to remain to vote it down.

    Disagree with the first part about the EU. Switching Remain MPs possibly.

    6. If all of the above fails the EU is sure to grant an extension in order for both sides to avoid No Deal. I do not think for a minute that May is happy to allow No Deal to happen and may be forced down the referendum route.

    Possible, but massively risky.

    For those reasons, so long as she sticks to her negotiating principles, I expect a deal to be passed, which while flawed, is already seen as by far the least worst option in polls. A deal will, I expect, keep the tory party together while the labour party is hopelessly split.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    _Anazina_ said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1097587824575082496
    They probably hated Tony Benn as well. Virtually a Blairite. I mean he served under Wilson.
    I don’t think they hate Benn.
    Only Emily Benn.
    And Hilary Benn.
    _Anazina_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1097587824575082496
    They probably hated Tony Benn as well. Virtually a Blairite. I mean he served under Wilson.
    I don’t think they hate Benn.
    Only Emily Benn.
    And Hilary Benn.
    _Anazina_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Which safe seat will Hatton be parachuted into? Waverley I guess.

    It's over. Labour is officially no longer Labour and anyone who thinks it is, is deluding themselves.

    Penny for Kinnock's thoughts tonight.

    https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1097587824575082496
    They probably hated Tony Benn as well. Virtually a Blairite. I mean he served under Wilson.
    I don’t think they hate Benn.
    Only Emily Benn.
    And Hilary Benn.
    And Mr Benn.
    They even hate Gentle Ben. The baskets
    There is toxic groundswell of loathing for Uncle Ben.
    With great hatred comes great irresponsibility... :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited February 2019
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
    More 'what MP?' than 'MP for Watford' as far as I am concerned I fear.

    This group need a big name defection or they're screwed, but I don't see them getting it from either side.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    kle4 said:

    Richard Harrington I assume from wikipedia. Never heard of him.

    I think he plays Jon Snow in Game of Thrones.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Can't help but feel the Tiggers missed an opportunity to pick a name straight out of the first-episode-of-The-Apprentice school of shite names.

    Winners?
    The A-Team?
    Apex?
    Excel?
    The Good Guys?
    We Hate Labour?

    He's not the Jezziah, he's a very naughty boy?

    Or would Terry Jones cause trouble?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
    More 'what MP?' than 'MP for Watford' as far as I am concerned I fear.

    This group need a big name defection or they're screwed, but I don't see them getting it from either side.
    Corbyn. And he could vote against party position out of 'principle'
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
    More 'what MP?' than 'MP for Watford' as far as I am concerned I fear.

    This group need a big name defection or they're screwed, but I don't see them getting it from either side.
    Maybe so - though according to the Telegraph four other Tory MPs are poised to defect.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Great if this was pre planned.
    That means we get a hammer the Tories press conference just after the hammer Labour one.
  • twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1097591366450860032

    WTF is #GTTO?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469

    twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1097591366450860032

    WTF is #GTTO?
    Get The Tories Out I assume...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Andrew said:

    kle4 said:

    Richard Harrington I assume from wikipedia. Never heard of him.

    I think he plays Jon Snow in Game of Thrones.
    So if he defects there are going to be lots of cocks and tits on show?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Is Galloway back yet ?

    Before you know it, ken will be back....and the old gang will all be back together again.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    I see JC is not even attempting to reconcile with the splitters.

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1097448030498971648

    reads like 'they left, I don't care about it but we're doing this'
    it isn't offering much to the supposed waverers who are waiting to see what happens with the PV motion
  • ydoethur said:

    Andrew said:

    kle4 said:

    Richard Harrington I assume from wikipedia. Never heard of him.

    I think he plays Jon Snow in Game of Thrones.
    So if he defects there are going to be lots of cocks and tits on show?
    How does that differ from PMQs?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
    More 'what MP?' than 'MP for Watford' as far as I am concerned I fear.

    This group need a big name defection or they're screwed, but I don't see them getting it from either side.
    Maybe so - though according to the Telegraph four other Tory MPs are poised to defect.
    By 'defect' you must mean 'resign the whip and sit as independents,' because to defect there would have to be a party they are joining.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138

    Been on a break in Scotland for the last four days and not been following the news, have I missed anything?

    Netflix cancelled The Punisher and Jessica Jones
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138

    twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1097591366450860032

    WTF is #GTTO?
    Get The Tories Out
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Andrew said:

    kle4 said:

    Richard Harrington I assume from wikipedia. Never heard of him.

    I think he plays Jon Snow in Game of Thrones.
    So if he defects there are going to be lots of cocks and tits on show?
    How does that differ from PMQs?
    There will be no c***s on display as Corbyn and Macdonnell will be in hiding.

    Although come to think of it that weakens the Game of Thrones analogy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1097591366450860032

    WTF is #GTTO?
    Get The Tories Out I assume...
    More likely than the PG other definition which was the first result I came across.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    Richard Harrington I assume from wikipedia. Never heard of him.
    He was at the centre of the massive 8pm news embargo last week about mogg and co. Ut was hinted at the time it might make more sense in time......
    Remembering that the Labour lot originally planned to launch last Thursday, it certainly does.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Pulpstar said:

    Is Galloway back yet ?

    In all seriousness on what grounds would them keep him out? He's more passionate in support of the leadership than many in the party.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited February 2019
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
    More 'what MP?' than 'MP for Watford' as far as I am concerned I fear.

    This group need a big name defection or they're screwed, but I don't see them getting it from either side.
    Maybe so - though according to the Telegraph four other Tory MPs are poised to defect.
    By 'defect' you must mean 'resign the whip and sit as independents,' because to defect there would have to be a party they are joining.
    I meant defect to The Independent Group - which is something of a contradiction in terms! If it happens, I imagine they would in future sit on the Opposition Benches - and we would be getting close to the point where the DUP no longer held the balance.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710

    twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1097591366450860032

    WTF is #GTTO?
    Great British Bake Off...wait a minute.
  • People who put hashtags in their social media names = people who eat pineapple pizzas washed down with boxed wine.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    People who put hashtags in their social media names = people who eat pineapple pizzas washed down with boxed wine.

    #PWEPPWDWBW ? Not very catchy.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
    More 'what MP?' than 'MP for Watford' as far as I am concerned I fear.

    This group need a big name defection or they're screwed, but I don't see them getting it from either side.
    Maybe so - though according to the Telegraph four other Tory MPs are poised to defect.
    By 'defect' you must mean 'resign the whip and sit as independents,' because to defect there would have to be a party they are joining.
    I meant defect to The Independent Group - which is something of a contradiction in terms! If it happens, I imagine they would in future sit on the Opposition Benches - and we would be getting close to the point where the DUP no longer held the balance.
    That does beg the question, if a number of Tories left and joined this new grouping how would they vote in a VoNC? Surely TIG are not ready for an election at this point.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    spudgfsh said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
    More 'what MP?' than 'MP for Watford' as far as I am concerned I fear.

    This group need a big name defection or they're screwed, but I don't see them getting it from either side.
    Maybe so - though according to the Telegraph four other Tory MPs are poised to defect.
    By 'defect' you must mean 'resign the whip and sit as independents,' because to defect there would have to be a party they are joining.
    I meant defect to The Independent Group - which is something of a contradiction in terms! If it happens, I imagine they would in future sit on the Opposition Benches - and we would be getting close to the point where the DUP no longer held the balance.
    That does beg the question, if a number of Tories left and joined this new grouping how would they vote in a VoNC? Surely TIG are not ready for an election at this point.
    Well, if they are independents they can vote how they like. That's sort of the point.

    My guess is they would abstain.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    spudgfsh said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
    More 'what MP?' than 'MP for Watford' as far as I am concerned I fear.

    This group need a big name defection or they're screwed, but I don't see them getting it from either side.
    Maybe so - though according to the Telegraph four other Tory MPs are poised to defect.
    By 'defect' you must mean 'resign the whip and sit as independents,' because to defect there would have to be a party they are joining.
    I meant defect to The Independent Group - which is something of a contradiction in terms! If it happens, I imagine they would in future sit on the Opposition Benches - and we would be getting close to the point where the DUP no longer held the balance.
    That does beg the question, if a number of Tories left and joined this new grouping how would they vote in a VoNC? Surely TIG are not ready for an election at this point.
    It asks the question, for sure. If they all abstain, the government survives.
  • IanB2 said:

    People who put hashtags in their social media names = people who eat pineapple pizzas washed down with boxed wine.

    #PWEPPWDWBW ? Not very catchy.
    #TWATS for short.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
    More 'what MP?' than 'MP for Watford' as far as I am concerned I fear.

    This group need a big name defection or they're screwed, but I don't see them getting it from either side.
    Maybe so - though according to the Telegraph four other Tory MPs are poised to defect.
    By 'defect' you must mean 'resign the whip and sit as independents,' because to defect there would have to be a party they are joining.
    I meant defect to The Independent Group - which is something of a contradiction in terms! If it happens, I imagine they would in future sit on the Opposition Benches - and we would be getting close to the point where the DUP no longer held the balance.
    Not sure that Tory independents would vote No Confidence, as they would be pretty likely to lose their seats in any GE.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited February 2019
    spudgfsh said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
    More 'what MP?' than 'MP for Watford' as far as I am concerned I fear.

    This group need a big name defection or they're screwed, but I don't see them getting it from either side.
    Maybe so - though according to the Telegraph four other Tory MPs are poised to defect.
    By 'defect' you must mean 'resign the whip and sit as independents,' because to defect there would have to be a party they are joining.
    I meant defect to The Independent Group - which is something of a contradiction in terms! If it happens, I imagine they would in future sit on the Opposition Benches - and we would be getting close to the point where the DUP no longer held the balance.
    That does beg the question, if a number of Tories left and joined this new grouping how would they vote in a VoNC? Surely TIG are not ready for an election at this point.
    It would be difficult for them not to vote for a No Confidence Motion. Labour could effectively call them Tory stooges were they to do otherwise. They would be in much the same position as the SNP who - in reality - have no choice.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    IanB2 said:

    spudgfsh said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Minister: Rudd or Gauke?

    MPs: Allen, Soubry, Woolaston, Grieve ?
    Rudd would never go.
    I suspect the Minister could be Harrington.
    The only Harrington I know is a professional golfer, and I don't think you mean him given he's Irish. Who are you talking about?
    MP for Watford - Junior Minister
    More 'what MP?' than 'MP for Watford' as far as I am concerned I fear.

    This group need a big name defection or they're screwed, but I don't see them getting it from either side.
    Maybe so - though according to the Telegraph four other Tory MPs are poised to defect.
    By 'defect' you must mean 'resign the whip and sit as independents,' because to defect there would have to be a party they are joining.
    I meant defect to The Independent Group - which is something of a contradiction in terms! If it happens, I imagine they would in future sit on the Opposition Benches - and we would be getting close to the point where the DUP no longer held the balance.
    That does beg the question, if a number of Tories left and joined this new grouping how would they vote in a VoNC? Surely TIG are not ready for an election at this point.
    It asks the question, for sure. If they all abstain, the government survives.
    but politically could the ex-labour MPs consider propping up a Tory government (even if they are claiming to be outside the tribal politics).

    on top of that most of the current seven would need to keep a substantial amount of their current vote to win at an election. one of the seats could easily go Tory with a vote split between TIG and Labour.
This discussion has been closed.