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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This could be right – Corbyn blocking moves for a second refer

SystemSystem Posts: 12,172
edited February 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This could be right – Corbyn blocking moves for a second referendum triggering more MPs going

Labour sources think crunch point for several other Labour MPs considering resigning the whip will be whether or not Corbyn accepts Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson amendment on Feb 27 calling for public vote on May’s deal, modelled on Good Friday Agreement referendum

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited February 2019
    First...like chuka off a train when he hears it’s going to Swindon.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    On the subject of Sarah Woolsaton... didn't she begin the EU referendum campaign as an outspoken Brexiteer?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Party affiliations have loosened to the extent that stepping across to a new grouping seems much less remarkable than it would have done even a few years ago.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited February 2019
    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    And the DUP.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Fenster said:

    On the subject of Sarah Woolsaton... didn't she begin the EU referendum campaign as an outspoken Brexiteer?

    Indeed. Soubry was always a fierce Remainer who was on verge of crying live on TV at the prospect of Brexit.

    Wollaston was a Brexiteer who supposedly switched sides because she didn't believe the £350mn for the NHS would be delivered and even after the government has pledged in full the £350mn for the NHS she has become an arch Remain zealot.

    It's odd to say the least.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    It seems both parties have gone deselection-crazy.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    And the DUP. Sixth.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500
    Black_Rook said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    And the DUP. Sixth.
    There are more LD MP's.
    Seventh.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Sandpit said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    And the DUP.
    And Sinn Fein....
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    I don't see what this split is meant to achieve if they aren't going to form a proper party and try to compete for votes - including, and in fact especially, against Labour.

    I suppose at least it means they don't have to maintain even the tiniest shred of a pretence that they're serious about wanting Corbyn as Prime Minister, or that Labour (under current management) is a worthy party of Government. Perhaps that's enough for them?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,268
    And MPs going will harden Corbyn's resolve...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    TudorRose said:

    Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

    Sounds as though that’s the name of the party. Maybe a case of upper/lower case “i”.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,149
    If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    OldKingCole said:

    Black_Rook said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    And the DUP. Sixth.
    There are more LD MP's.
    Seventh.
    How did we all forget about the Lib Dem’s?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    edited February 2019
    I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

    May's Tories
    Labour
    SNP
    Baker/Mogg's ERG...
    Lib Dems
    DUP
    Sinn Fein
    Tiggers
    Plaid
    Non tigger Ex Labour independents
    Ex Lib Dems
    Green
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    RobD said:

    TudorRose said:

    Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

    Sounds as though that’s the name of the party. Maybe a case of upper/lower case “i”.
    I think they could be the UK Independents Party....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,268
    Black_Rook said:

    I don't see what this split is meant to achieve if they aren't going to form a proper party and try to compete for votes - including, and in fact especially, against Labour.

    I suppose at least it means they don't have to maintain even the tiniest shred of a pretence that they're serious about wanting Corbyn as Prime Minister, or that Labour (under current management) is a worthy party of Government. Perhaps that's enough for them?

    I think the aim is indeed to 'form a proper party', but they likely want to see who else might be up for the enterprise before they determine its boundaries.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Pulpstar said:

    I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

    Tories
    Labour
    SNP
    Lib Dems
    DUP
    Sinn Fein
    Tiggers
    Plaid
    Non tigger Ex Labour independents
    Ex Lib Dems
    Green

    Speaker? :p
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited February 2019
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

    I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Pulpstar said:

    I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

    Tories
    Labour
    SNP
    Lib Dems
    DUP
    Sinn Fein
    Tiggers
    Plaid
    Non tigger Ex Labour independents
    Ex Lib Dems
    Green

    Speaker?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Black_Rook said:

    I don't see what this split is meant to achieve if they aren't going to form a proper party and try to compete for votes - including, and in fact especially, against Labour.

    I suppose at least it means they don't have to maintain even the tiniest shred of a pretence that they're serious about wanting Corbyn as Prime Minister, or that Labour (under current management) is a worthy party of Government. Perhaps that's enough for them?

    They appear to ge going for a bottom up grass roots type arrangement, the party will form around the support after input from backers etc. There is a possible market for branding as 'people taking back politics' and running as NOTA/peoples candidates
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

    Tories
    Labour
    SNP
    Lib Dems
    DUP
    Sinn Fein
    Tiggers
    Plaid
    Non tigger Ex Labour independents
    Ex Lib Dems
    Green

    Speaker? :p
    He is surely a tigger?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

    Tories
    Labour
    SNP
    Lib Dems
    DUP
    Sinn Fein
    Tiggers
    Plaid
    Non tigger Ex Labour independents
    Ex Lib Dems
    Green

    Speaker?
    Nominally a Tory... You could stick the speakers as equal to Plaid as a group though seeing as there are 4 of them.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.
  • JohnWheatleyJohnWheatley Posts: 141
    Deep down they want the Party to change so they can go back ultimately. Gapes is about as Labour to the core as it is possible to be. It must have hurt him terribly.

    On Woolaston, I think she would have a sporting chance to hold the seat as an indie.

    All eyes on the Labour candidate for Newport....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,724
    I have often said that anyone putting themselves forward to be an MP has a bravery (or foolhardishness?) that I lack. They can get some fairly horrendous treatment from the public and press.

    Therefore my first reaction to the news was how brave these seven people are. They are going to have the forces of hell thrown at them - and it's not as if Labour doesn't have a history of that. ;)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Any more Labrexit news?

    Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election? :D
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,149
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

    I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.
    Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    malcolmg said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.
    Hard to keep track of the SNP numbers these days ;)
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    malcolmg said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.
    Bang to rights over a flippant comment. I can only hold up my hands in shame.

    OTOH, I do know not to put a space before a comma or an apostrophe in "MPs", so there's that.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Umuna clearly thinks Macron is the template but Macron got bought by L'Establishment, hence the yellow vests, tiggers need to be genuine localist old style liberals
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

    I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.
    Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible
    He currently been investigated for sexual harassment.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,149
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

    I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.
    Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible
    He currently been investigated for sexual harassment.
    Alleged
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    TudorRose said:

    Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

    Local government is full of independent groups. Unlike today's effort, they are usually closet Tories.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.
    Hard to keep track of the SNP numbers these days ;)
    Not if you have more than two braincells Rob. Shows how stupid and how little knowledge of politics outside the M25 some idiots on here have. Donkeys galore.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    How many take the ERG whip these days ? Are they bigger or smaller than the SNP.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    OldKingCole said:

    Black_Rook said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    And the DUP. Sixth.
    There are more LD MP's.
    Seventh.
    ***BR pedantry alert!***

    Con 1st
    Lab 2nd
    SNP 3rd
    LD 4th
    DUP 5th
    Faux-SDP 6th or 6th=, depending on whether or not you count Sinn Fein. Not 7th.

    ***Pedantry ends***

    Another thing: Labour, counting in Newport West (both out of decency and on the assumption that they win the by-election) are down to 249 seats, having already shipped 13 MPs through various scandals, controversies and resignations. That's nearly half of their 2017 gains gone. 17 more losses sees them back to where they were after the 2015 result. This may no longer be inconceivable.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

    I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.
    Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible
    Frank field is a no and says 'he has his own plans' - retirement I think
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    GIN1138 said:

    Any more Labrexit news?

    Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election? :D

    Why should they? They were elected as individuals.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    El_Capitano said:

    malcolmg said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.
    Bang to rights over a flippant comment. I can only hold up my hands in shame.

    OTOH, I do know not to put a space before a comma or an apostrophe in "MPs", so there's that.
    Put on the big hat and go sit in the corner
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited February 2019
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

    I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.
    Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible
    He currently been investigated for sexual harassment.
    Alleged
    Well yes, he is being investigated...but he claims it is politically motivated. Even if it isn’t true, I am not sure the tiggers want to be bogged down with it (especially after in tinge-gate) at the moment.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    SandyRentool said:

    TudorRose said:

    Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

    Local government is full of independent groups. Unlike today's effort, they are usually closet Tories.
    You mean the seven aren’t closet red Tory scum?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2019
    edit
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Wasn't the good doctor actually selected on an open primary?

    How can a few members of the local association deselect her?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2019
    dyedwoolie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

    I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.
    Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible
    Frank field is a no and says 'he has his own plans' - retirement I think
    I dunno, I think Frank might give it a go as an actual independent candidate (and probably would come a lot closer to defending his seat than today's bunch of no-marks).
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.
    Hard to keep track of the SNP numbers these days ;)
    Not if you have more than two braincells Rob. Shows how stupid and how little knowledge of politics outside the M25 some idiots on here have. Donkeys galore.
    Evening Malc.

    Are you turned on by Chuka's new political force? :D
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,435
    I think that ultimately, the tiggers will want Corbyn to fall so that they can be welcomed back into the Labour fold. At the moment, they are a bit of a one trick pony- antibrexit- so there is only a finite number of voters they can attract-leavers ain't gonna be interested. It's too early to talk of new parties being formed. Maybe affer March 29th, we'll have more idea.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited February 2019
    malcolmg said:

    El_Capitano said:

    malcolmg said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    Idiot , you don't even know how many MP's each party has.
    Bang to rights over a flippant comment. I can only hold up my hands in shame.

    OTOH, I do know not to put a space before a comma or an apostrophe in "MPs", so there's that.
    Put on the big hat and go sit in the corner
    (full stop)

    To be honest I wish we had a party in England even halfway as competent as the SNP, but hey ho. I did display an SNP poster in my window at GE 2015 purely to troll the local Tories. Isabel Oakeshott tweeted a picture of it with the caption "Spotted in David Cameron's constituency" and the Cybernats of Twitter were delighted.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Pulpstar said:

    How many take the ERG whip these days ? Are they bigger or smaller than the SNP.

    The ERG contingent certainly outnumber that of the SNP, but they don't count as a separate party.

    Yet.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    RobD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    TudorRose said:

    Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

    Local government is full of independent groups. Unlike today's effort, they are usually closet Tories.
    You mean the seven aren’t closet red Tory scum?
    I would describe them as Social Democrats.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    edited February 2019
    MikeSmithson said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Any more Labrexit news?

    Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election? :D

    Why should they? They were elected as individuals.
    Lol they all know full well they wouldn't get in without the rose next to their name on the ballot paper. Same for Stephen Lloyd (yellow bird) or Frank Field running as independents too.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited February 2019
    Be interesting to see if the tiggers get any prominent financial backing. Got to be some blairite business types who think corbyn is a commie and brexit is a disaster, and willing to shovel to dosh to back this grouping.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Danny565 said:

    dyedwoolie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    If those already outside the whip joined the group how many would they be

    I am not sure the tiggers want a convicted criminal, an mp with record of sexual harassment, etc. And I think frank field has already said no thanks.
    Not sure how many they are but I assume Woodcock would be a possible
    Frank field is a no and says 'he has his own plans' - retirement I think
    I dunno, I think Frank might give it a go as an actual independent candidate (and probably would come a lot closer to defending his seat than today's bunch of no-marks).
    Or let the Tories through the middle in a genuine 'Tories gain birkenhead' moment
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    MikeSmithson said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Any more Labrexit news?

    Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election? :D

    Why should they? They were elected as individuals.
    Just asking the question... ;)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855
    Black_Rook said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Black_Rook said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    And the DUP. Sixth.
    There are more LD MP's.
    Seventh.
    ***BR pedantry alert!***

    Con 1st
    Lab 2nd
    SNP 3rd
    LD 4th
    DUP 5th
    Faux-SDP 6th or 6th=, depending on whether or not you count Sinn Fein. Not 7th.

    ***Pedantry ends***

    Another thing: Labour, counting in Newport West (both out of decency and on the assumption that they win the by-election) are down to 249 seats, having already shipped 13 MPs through various scandals, controversies and resignations. That's nearly half of their 2017 gains gone. 17 more losses sees them back to where they were after the 2015 result. This may no longer be inconceivable.
    We're going to need a decent pun name for this lot - SDP 2:Electric Boogaloo isn't going to cut it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    twistedfirestopper3 said:

    I think that ultimately, the tiggers will want Corbyn to fall so that they can be welcomed back into the Labour fold. At the moment, they are a bit of a one trick pony- antibrexit- so there is only a finite number of voters they can attract-leavers ain't gonna be interested. It's too early to talk of new parties being formed. Maybe affer March 29th, we'll have more idea.

    I don't think they can go back now even if Corbyn falls. The backstabber always needs to dig two (or 7 in this case) graves.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    SandyRentool said:

    TudorRose said:

    Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

    Local government is full of independent groups. Unlike today's effort, they are usually closet Tories.
    According to my Twitter feed, there are two extraneous letters in your post.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    MaxPB said:

    I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

    Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    Pulpstar said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Any more Labrexit news?

    Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election? :D

    Why should they? They were elected as individuals.
    Lol they all know full well they wouldn't get in without the rose next to their name on the ballot paper. Same for Stephen Lloyd (yellow bird) or Frank Field running as independents too.
    Although Zac did nearly hold as an independent, though I expect the chances of Corbyn not sticking up an official Labour candidate against any of this lot are between nought and zero.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,009
    Honda first on BBC news at 6.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    SandyRentool said:

    RobD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    TudorRose said:

    Can you have an 'independent group'? Isn't that actually just a 'group'? And what about people like Woodcock - are they 'independent independents'?

    Local government is full of independent groups. Unlike today's effort, they are usually closet Tories.
    You mean the seven aren’t closet red Tory scum?
    I would describe them as Social Democrats.
    Typical non-denial denial. :D
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

    Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?
    No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,726
    edited February 2019
    Margaret Thatcher, Tokyo 1982

    https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/105018

    I want to make clear that Japanese companies which invest in the United Kingdom are very welcome, and we believe we have much to offer them.

    — Politically, we are one of the most stable countries in Europe—a vital point for any investor.

    — We provide access, through our membership of the European Community to a market of 270 million people—and make no mistake about it, we shall continue to be a member of that Community.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

    Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?
    No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.
    Will they be allowed to do that long term?
  • DonTsInferno_DonTsInferno_ Posts: 108
    edited February 2019
    This morning when I woke up I had never heard of Angela Smith MP. By this evening I have learned...

    She was elected by promising voters her party wouldn’t win

    She has resigned from the party because she thinks it’s racist, then made the most racist comment ever on the BBC’s new lunchtime show

    She represents a constituency who voted Leave yet criticises her old party for enabling Brexit

    I think she’s right and politics is broken!

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

    Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?
    No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.
    Will they be allowed to do that long term?
    I have no idea, it's extremely opaque though as it means donations to the company don't need to be registered.
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,435
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Be interesting to see if the tiggers get any prominent financial backing. Got to be some blairite business types who think corbyn is a commie and brexit is a disaster, and willing to shovel to dosh to back this grouping.

    I'd have thought old Tone himself would be jizzing his pants as he pulled a few million quid of his hard earned out of his pocket to give 'em.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited February 2019
    twistedfirestopper3 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Be interesting to see if the tiggers get any prominent financial backing. Got to be some blairite business types who think corbyn is a commie and brexit is a disaster, and willing to shovel to dosh to back this grouping.

    I'd have thought old Tone himself would be jizzing his pants as he pulled a few million quid of his hard earned out of his pocket to give 'em.
    I don’t know, I get the feeling tone is the kind of guy happy to spend other people’s money but rather tight with his own....cough network of private companies, cough tax efficiency cough. And hence why he is absolutely loaded.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    MaxPB said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

    Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?
    No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.
    Will they be allowed to do that long term?
    I have no idea, it's extremely opaque though as it means donations to the company don't need to be registered.
    It seems like it shouldn’t, because otherwise everybody could easily dodge the normal expenditure oversight.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    williamglenn said:

    Margaret Thatcher, Tokyo 1982

    https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/105018

    I want to make clear that Japanese companies which invest in the United Kingdom are very welcome, and we believe we have much to offer them.

    — Politically, we are one of the most stable countries in Europe—a vital point for any investor.

    — We provide access, through our membership of the European Community to a market of 270 million people—and make no mistake about it, we shall continue to be a member of that Community.

    35 years is a long time ;)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MaxPB said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

    Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?
    No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.
    Will they be allowed to do that long term?
    I have no idea, it's extremely opaque though as it means donations to the company don't need to be registered.
    It seems like it shouldn’t, because otherwise everybody could easily dodge the normal expenditure oversight.
    Indeed. I think it's a first that a group of MPs have declared themselves as being controlled by a private company rather than a political party. It's definitely a grey area that needs clarification very fast before we end up in a similar situation to the US where huge companies buy off politicians completely through dodgy SuperPACs.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

    Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?
    No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.
    Very odd.
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,435
    williamglenn said:

    Margaret Thatcher, Tokyo 1982

    https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/105018

    I want to make clear that Japanese companies which invest in the United Kingdom are very welcome, and we believe we have much to offer them.

    — Politically, we are one of the most stable countries in Europe—a vital point for any investor.

    — We provide access, through our membership of the European Community to a market of 270 million people—and make no mistake about it, we shall continue to be a member of that Community.

    In 1982, the world was my lobster. A lot has happened since then.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    GIN1138 said:

    Any more Labrexit news?

    Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election? :D

    Only certain "people's votes" required it seems.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    MaxPB said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MaxPB said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

    Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?
    No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.
    Will they be allowed to do that long term?
    I have no idea, it's extremely opaque though as it means donations to the company don't need to be registered.
    It seems like it shouldn’t, because otherwise everybody could easily dodge the normal expenditure oversight.
    Indeed. I think it's a first that a group of MPs have declared themselves as being controlled by a private company rather than a political party. It's definitely a grey area that needs clarification very fast before we end up in a similar situation to the US where huge companies buy off politicians completely through dodgy SuperPACs.
    Max, probably best to fire off an enquiry/complaint to the electoral commission about it. CC your local MP in too perhaps (No idea who that is)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Tonight’s irony: Leavers who have for three years resolutely refused to contemplate where Leave’s money came from are now getting agitated because they can’t immediately see where a brand new grouping is funded from.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    GIN1138 said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Any more Labrexit news?

    Oh and have any of these "departing" Labour MPs granted their constituents a "People's Vote" in the form of a by election? :D

    Why should they? They were elected as individuals.
    Just asking the question... ;)
    I think the people have the right to a second vote, now all the facts are available... the voters simply weren't informed enough at the time about what voting for their MP would actually entail... now all the facts are available, what's wrong with demanding a second vote? :D
  • AnotherEngineerAnotherEngineer Posts: 64
    edited February 2019
    williamglenn said:

    Margaret Thatcher, Tokyo 1982

    https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/105018

    I want to make clear that Japanese companies which invest in the United Kingdom are very welcome, and we believe we have much to offer them.

    — Politically, we are one of the most stable countries in Europe—a vital point for any investor.

    — We provide access, through our membership of the European Community to a market of 270 million people—and make no mistake about it, we shall continue to be a member of that Community.

    Unfortunately the EC no longer exists. If it did...then I'd bet we would still be members.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Tonight’s irony: Leavers who have for three years resolutely refused to contemplate where Leave’s money came from are now getting agitated because they can’t immediately see where a brand new grouping is funded from.

    I trust you are equally curious.
  • rawzerrawzer Posts: 189
    MaxPB said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm also less than impressed by this new party's set up to dodge oversight of donations and I'm extremely uneasy about the idea of a private company effectively controlling the votes of 6 MPs. The electoral commission needs to look into this ASAP.

    Oh, they aren’t registered as a party?
    No, TIG is a private company, not a political party. Which is very disconcerting.
    Will they be allowed to do that long term?
    I have no idea, it's extremely opaque though as it means donations to the company don't need to be registered.
    Information about its create, its ownership, its articles of association etc etc is available in about 30 seconds from Companies House - they will presumably be subject to exactly the same rules as any other Company LImited by Guarantee? If they form a political party then they will be subject to the relevant rules for political parties. Not sure whats at all odd about this - they have to have a trading entity to buy stuff (like a website) and take in stuff (like donations)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Tonight’s irony: Leavers who have for three years resolutely refused to contemplate where Leave’s money came from are now getting agitated because they can’t immediately see where a brand new grouping is funded from.

    Tonight's irony: Remainers that have been agitating about where the not Leave campaign's money came from completely unbothered by the new group's opaque set up.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Tonight’s irony: Leavers who have for three years resolutely refused to contemplate where Leave’s money came from are now getting agitated because they can’t immediately see where a brand new grouping is funded from.

    Isn't one of the lessons from the referendum that it is best to clarify stuff like this early on (Which noone did for really for the leave campaigns) rather than leave unresolved and pproach it when its all too late ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    I think the new independent party could become a rallying point for 'People's Vote' backing Labour MPs and a few Tory diehard Remainers like Soubry, Wollaston and Grieve.

    Of course if Article 50 is extended and we end up with BINO or even Brexit revoked that will boost Farage's new Brexit Party which is reportedly ready to field 200 candidates in the European Parliament elections if we are still in the EU in May
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobD said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Tonight’s irony: Leavers who have for three years resolutely refused to contemplate where Leave’s money came from are now getting agitated because they can’t immediately see where a brand new grouping is funded from.

    I trust you are equally curious.
    I’m curious in proportion to the money. So much more curious about where all that opaque money for Leave came from. I trust you are too.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    Black_Rook said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Black_Rook said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Fourth like the Independent Group.

    Oh, wait, there's the SNP too. Fifth.

    And the DUP. Sixth.
    There are more LD MP's.
    Seventh.
    ***BR pedantry alert!***

    Con 1st
    Lab 2nd
    SNP 3rd
    LD 4th
    DUP 5th
    Faux-SDP 6th or 6th=, depending on whether or not you count Sinn Fein. Not 7th.

    ***Pedantry ends***

    Another thing: Labour, counting in Newport West (both out of decency and on the assumption that they win the by-election) are down to 249 seats, having already shipped 13 MPs through various scandals, controversies and resignations. That's nearly half of their 2017 gains gone. 17 more losses sees them back to where they were after the 2015 result. This may no longer be inconceivable.
    We're going to need a decent pun name for this lot - SDP 2:Electric Boogaloo isn't going to cut it.
    The Spliterati?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,057
    JosiasJessop said:

    I have often said that anyone putting themselves forward to be an MP has a bravery (or foolhardishness?) that I lack. They can get some fairly horrendous treatment from the public and press.

    Try standing for PM. Or POTUS ...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.

    But why not just register a political party?
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    edited February 2019
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Fenster said:

    On the subject of Sarah Woolsaton... didn't she begin the EU referendum campaign as an outspoken Brexiteer?

    Indeed. Soubry was always a fierce Remainer who was on verge of crying live on TV at the prospect of Brexit.

    Wollaston was a Brexiteer who supposedly switched sides because she didn't believe the £350mn for the NHS would be delivered and even after the government has pledged in full the £350mn for the NHS she has become an arch Remain zealot.

    It's odd to say the least.
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Fenster said:

    On the subject of Sarah Woolsaton... didn't she begin the EU referendum campaign as an outspoken Brexiteer?

    Indeed. Soubry was always a fierce Remainer who was on verge of crying live on TV at the prospect of Brexit.

    Wollaston was a Brexiteer who supposedly switched sides because she didn't believe the £350mn for the NHS would be delivered and even after the government has pledged in full the £350mn for the NHS she has become an arch Remain zealot.

    It's odd to say the least.
    .
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think by party/group in the HoC right now in order it is:

    Tories
    Labour
    SNP
    Lib Dems
    DUP
    Sinn Fein
    Tiggers
    Plaid
    Non tigger Ex Labour independents
    Ex Lib Dems
    Green

    Speaker? :p
    Lady Hermon
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited February 2019
    MaxPB said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.

    But why not just register a political party?
    I am not sure they even know if they are going to be a political party. It was all very wishy washy. Remember maomentum is a private company for collecting data, perhaps they are aping that approach.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.

    Yes so best to pin it all down whilst the foal is still learning to stand up in its stable. Meanwhile the leave stallion has galloped about 20 races since it bolted.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    MaxPB said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.

    But why not just register a political party?

    Plenty of spare addresses on the Finchley Road
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    edited February 2019
    Liam Fox flew to Jerusalem today to sign a deal to roll over the existing EU Israel trade agreement for the UK after Brexit
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/1097559955245359108
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,958
    HYUFD said:

    I think the new independent party could become a rallying point for 'People's Vote' backing Labour MPs and a few Tory diehard Remainers like Soubry, Wollaston and Grieve.

    Of course if Article 50 is extended and we end up with BINO or even Brexit revoked that will boost Farage's new Brexit Party which is reportedly ready to field 200 candidates in the European Parliament elections if we are still in the EU in May

    How can they field 200 candidates when we only have 70 something seats?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    HYUFD said:

    I think the new independent party could become a rallying point for 'People's Vote' backing Labour MPs and a few Tory diehard Remainers like Soubry, Wollaston and Grieve.

    Of course if Article 50 is extended and we end up with BINO or even Brexit revoked that will boost Farage's new Brexit Party which is reportedly ready to field 200 candidates in the European Parliament elections if we are still in the EU in May

    We only send 73 members fo Europe, what are the other 127 candidates standing for?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Pulpstar said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I would be surprised if this private company thing isn’t just a “placeholder”. At the press conference, they didn’t even know if / when they would be a party, who would do what roles etc.

    Yes so best to pin it all down whilst the foal is still learning to stand up in its stable. Meanwhile the leave stallion has galloped about 20 races since it bolted.
    Indeed. In theory a new party could effectively accept a donation from the company and then not declare where the cash originated as the company will just be declaring political donations as income for services rendered.
This discussion has been closed.