The two major Anglophone countries are deep in the brown stuff due to incompetent Governments. Yet both came to power as a result of an acknowleged democratic process.
Makes one furiously to think! Why have the processes in each country worked so badly?
Cheer up! The Belgian PM has just resigned, the French Police are about to strike and German economic confidence is at its lowest in over a decade. Everything’s going so well.....
....and the UK leaving with No Deal is going to push all of them into recession.
Merry Christmas, Europe.
Welcome to leaver world, where covering oneself in shit is fine provided that third parties get hit by the odd splatter.
I'm so sorry that reality has splattered your pristine garments.....
The EU will pick up your dry-cleaning bill. After all, they are the ones flingng the backstop shit.
No they aren't. They, the RoI and the UK are supporting the backstop.
The two major Anglophone countries are deep in the brown stuff due to incompetent Governments. Yet both came to power as a result of an acknowleged democratic process.
Makes one furiously to think! Why have the processes in each country worked so badly?
Cheer up! The Belgian PM has just resigned, the French Police are about to strike and German economic confidence is at its lowest in over a decade. Everything’s going so well.....
....and the UK leaving with No Deal is going to push all of them into recession.
Merry Christmas, Europe.
Welcome to leaver world, where covering oneself in shit is fine provided that third parties get hit by the odd splatter.
I'm so sorry that reality has splattered your pristine garments.....
The EU will pick up your dry-cleaning bill. After all, they are the ones flingng the backstop shit.
No they aren't. They, the RoI and the UK are supporting the backstop.
Indedd we agreed it a year ago and are now trying to break our word.
The Prime Minister has now set a date for the debate – week commencing 7 January, with the meaningful vote the next week. But time is short and the Government needs to get over the meaningful vote hurdle to unlock possible ways forward.
The process could look something like the following:
Step 1: Have the meaningful vote – but if there is nothing new on the table, treat as a resumed debate. The Prime Minister could even use another of our suggested tactics and make it a free vote. Assuming the motion is defeated, make clear the immediate next step will be…
Step 2: Allow MPs to have indicative votes on another way forward. This would be to see whether there is any majority for a way forward. At the moment, it looks like no option commands a majority.
If that is right, the Prime Minister’s next gambit could be to try a cross-the-floor tactic designed to unite all those MPs who say they “want to respect the referendum” minus those who cannot accept her backstop.
The risk to her is that this could trigger a confidence motion where the DUP would back the Opposition, so she would need to be confident that her way forward could command cross-party support.
Step 3: Put the Withdrawal Agreement back to MPs – but decouple it from the political declaration. Assuming the indicative votes indicate no majority for a referendum and no majority for a no deal exit, the Prime Minister can take it that there are the votes for an orderly Brexit.
Her deal is the only one on offer that can guarantee an orderly Brexit. She could say to MPs that they need to pass that part of her deal (and the Withdrawal Agreement Bill) to ensure a transition and an opening of negotiations on the future relationship.
She could then make a virtue of the vagueness of the political declaration – the 27 pages on non-legally binding text on the future framework. It encompasses a range of relationships and where the EU has repeatedly made clear that others are possible if UK red lines change.
The Prime Minister has now set a date for the debate – week commencing 7 January, with the meaningful vote the next week. But time is short and the Government needs to get over the meaningful vote hurdle to unlock possible ways forward.
The process could look something like the following:
Step 1: Have the meaningful vote – but if there is nothing new on the table, treat as a resumed debate. The Prime Minister could even use another of our suggested tactics and make it a free vote. Assuming the motion is defeated, make clear the immediate next step will be…
Step 2: Allow MPs to have indicative votes on another way forward. This would be to see whether there is any majority for a way forward. At the moment, it looks like no option commands a majority.
If that is right, the Prime Minister’s next gambit could be to try a cross-the-floor tactic designed to unite all those MPs who say they “want to respect the referendum” minus those who cannot accept her backstop.
The risk to her is that this could trigger a confidence motion where the DUP would back the Opposition, so she would need to be confident that her way forward could command cross-party support.
Step 3: Put the Withdrawal Agreement back to MPs – but decouple it from the political declaration. Assuming the indicative votes indicate no majority for a referendum and no majority for a no deal exit, the Prime Minister can take it that there are the votes for an orderly Brexit.
Her deal is the only one on offer that can guarantee an orderly Brexit. She could say to MPs that they need to pass that part of her deal (and the Withdrawal Agreement Bill) to ensure a transition and an opening of negotiations on the future relationship.
She could then make a virtue of the vagueness of the political declaration – the 27 pages on non-legally binding text on the future framework. It encompasses a range of relationships and where the EU has repeatedly made clear that others are possible if UK red lines change.
There are so many investigations into Donald Trump that only the keenest devotees can keep track of them. At the end of the process the public will generally conclude that he was a liar (because he was). The more difficult question is whether they will care. He will retain enough support to be a huge headache for the Republican party.
The two major Anglophone countries are deep in the brown stuff due to incompetent Governments. Yet both came to power as a result of an acknowleged democratic process.
Makes one furiously to think! Why have the processes in each country worked so badly?
Cheer up! The Belgian PM has just resigned, the French Police are about to strike and German economic confidence is at its lowest in over a decade. Everything’s going so well.....
....and the UK leaving with No Deal is going to push all of them into recession.
Merry Christmas, Europe.
Welcome to leaver world, where covering oneself in shit is fine provided that third parties get hit by the odd splatter.
I'm so sorry that reality has splattered your pristine garments.....
The EU will pick up your dry-cleaning bill. After all, they are the ones flingng the backstop shit.
No they aren't. They, the RoI and the UK are supporting the backstop.
Indedd we agreed it a year ago and are now trying to break our word.
The wording of the text doesn’t match what was agreed in December last year
Also, to be fair, May is not “trying to break her word”. It’s debatable whether Parliament actually needs to ratify the treaty, but if it does (either politically or legally) then all May has committed to is to present the treaty to Parliament for their approval
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
The two major Anglophone countries are deep in the brown stuff due to incompetent Governments. Yet both came to power as a result of an acknowleged democratic process.
Makes one furiously to think! Why have the processes in each country worked so badly?
Cheer up! The Belgian PM has just resigned, the French Police are about to strike and German economic confidence is at its lowest in over a decade. Everything’s going so well.....
....and the UK leaving with No Deal is going to push all of them into recession.
Merry Christmas, Europe.
Welcome to leaver world, where covering oneself in shit is fine provided that third parties get hit by the odd splatter.
I'm so sorry that reality has splattered your pristine garments.....
The EU will pick up your dry-cleaning bill. After all, they are the ones flingng the backstop shit.
No they aren't. They, the RoI and the UK are supporting the backstop.
Indedd we agreed it a year ago and are now trying to break our word.
The wording of the text doesn’t match what was agreed in December last year
Also, to be fair, May is not “trying to break her word”. It’s debatable whether Parliament actually needs to ratify the treaty, but if it does (either politically or legally) then all May has committed to is to present the treaty to Parliament for their approval
Personally, I think the Backstop the best feature of the Deal. It is particularly good for NI as it maintains the majority of the benefits of EU membership at no cost.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
The two major Anglophone countries are deep in the brown stuff due to incompetent Governments. Yet both came to power as a result of an acknowleged democratic process.
Makes one furiously to think! Why have the processes in each country worked so badly?
Cheer up! The Belgian PM has just resigned, the French Police are about to strike and German economic confidence is at its lowest in over a decade. Everything’s going so well.....
....and the UK leaving with No Deal is going to push all of them into recession.
Merry Christmas, Europe.
Welcome to leaver world, where covering oneself in shit is fine provided that third parties get hit by the odd splatter.
I'm so sorry that reality has splattered your pristine garments.....
The EU will pick up your dry-cleaning bill. After all, they are the ones flingng the backstop shit.
No they aren't. They, the RoI and the UK are supporting the backstop.
Indedd we agreed it a year ago and are now trying to break our word.
The wording of the text doesn’t match what was agreed in December last year
Also, to be fair, May is not “trying to break her word”. It’s debatable whether Parliament actually needs to ratify the treaty, but if it does (either politically or legally) then all May has committed to is to present the treaty to Parliament for their approval
Personally, I think the Backstop the best feature of the Deal. It is particularly good for NI as it maintains the majority of the benefits of EU membership at no cost.
You mean apart from the £39+ billion the UK are paying so they can have the benefit of membership at "no cost"?
(1) The Republican Establishment knows that Trump bring voters to the party that others wouldn't. Now, he also repels (apparently) some suburban well off Republicans. But if you look at where Republican House losses came from, a high percentage came from states which Trump lost in 2016 anyway (NJ, NY, CA, IL). On the other hand, the establishment knows any new Republican candidate is unlikely to repeat Trump's wins in places like Michigan and Wisconsin. And they won the Senate seat in FL and did reasonably well in Ohio.
The Republicans didn't do that well in Ohio at the midterms - Sherrod Brown was only a few hundred thousand votes behind where Trump got in 2016 which is almost unprecedented. (And Wisconsin was even worse: the winning Democrat's vote count would have been enough to beat Trump.)
On topic: We need public polling on what an Independent Trump Candidacy would do to the Electoral College in 2020. Who's vote does he take and where ? The Republicans will already have that data privately. Which leaves us with three questions. 1. Is Trump a bigger electoral disaster for the Republicans as an Independent than as a Republican ? 2. How credible is Trump's threat to stand as an Independent ? 3. What would Trump want to not stand voluntarily ?
There are of course other variables. If a close family member is indicted his behaviour might prompt the 25A, he could just die given his weight and stress levels and the ourse.
More likely Bloomberg runs as an independent, especially if the choice is say Trump v Sanders it Trump v Warren
On topic, couple of reasons I think the Republicans will stick with him in 2020
(1) The Republican Establishment knows that Trump bring voters to the party that others wouldn't. Now, he also repels (apparently) some suburban well off Republicans. But if you look at where Republican House losses came from, a high percentage came from states which Trump lost in 2016 anyway (NJ, NY, CA, IL). On the other hand, the establishment knows any new Republican candidate is unlikely to repeat Trump's wins in places like Michigan and Wisconsin. And they won the Senate seat in FL and did reasonably well in Ohio.
(2) Post-Kavanaugh, Trump built up a lot of credit with traditional Republicans. More to the point, Establishment Republicans fear that Democrats would target them as aggressively as Trump if 2020 was lost. There is a sense Trump is the only one who can hold them back.
(3) There is a good chance that at least one Supreme Court seat (Ginsberg) comes up, possibly in the next 2 years, almost certainly before 2024. That will be a humdinger of a battle. I would imagine Republicans will want someone with Trump's willingness to attack to be around for that.
(4) Stepping back and looking at the whole Mueller thing, there are enough sub-plots where the whole thing is getting slightly complicated. Was Flynn a victim of a sting or not? What happened to the Page-Strozk texts? etc etc. There is enough in here where he can drag it out. And Barr is not likely to make the same mistake Sessions did in recusement.
Agreed and the primary voters of the Republican Party will likely stick with Trump anyway
The Prime Minister has now set a date for the debate – week commencing 7 January, with the meaningful vote the next week. But time is short and the Government needs to get over the meaningful vote hurdle to unlock possible ways forward.
The process could look something like the following:
Step 1: Have the meaningful vote – but if there is nothing new on the table, treat as a resumed debate. The Prime Minister could even use another of our suggested tactics and make it a free vote. Assuming the motion is defeated, make clear the immediate next step will be…
Step 2: Allow MPs to have indicative votes on another way forward. This would be to see whether there is any majority for a way forward. At the moment, it looks like no option commands a majority.
If that is right, the Prime Minister’s next gambit could be to try a cross-the-floor tactic designed to unite all those MPs who say they “want to respect the referendum” minus those who cannot accept her backstop.
The risk to her is that this could trigger a confidence motion where the DUP would back the Opposition, so she would need to be confident that her way forward could command cross-party support.
Step 3: Put the Withdrawal Agreement back to MPs – but decouple it from the political declaration. Assuming the indicative votes indicate no majority for a referendum and no majority for a no deal exit, the Prime Minister can take it that there are the votes for an orderly Brexit.
Her deal is the only one on offer that can guarantee an orderly Brexit. She could say to MPs that they need to pass that part of her deal (and the Withdrawal Agreement Bill) to ensure a transition and an opening of negotiations on the future relationship.
She could then make a virtue of the vagueness of the political declaration – the 27 pages on non-legally binding text on the future framework. It encompasses a range of relationships and where the EU has repeatedly made clear that others are possible if UK red lines change.
Jill Rutter, contemporary of May's and Civil Servant sidelined by Brown's bully boys in the Treasury....
That's a sensible plan, however I fear that after the deal is rejected in the MV that either the Gov't will pivot to a 2nd ref or pivot to no deal then be VONCed by 7 treasonous heroic MPs on its own side. So 2nd ref or GE it is. Personally I'd prefer a GE.
I think Sajid Javid is a definite lay now in the race to succeed Mrs May.
What a disastrous interview.
Only Hunt left at this rate. I mean Raab has been shown to be far too inexperienced. Boris can't ever be written off, but somehow he has to get some more MPs onboard.
The two major Anglophone countries are deep in the brown stuff due to incompetent Governments. Yet both came to power as a result of an acknowleged democratic process.
Makes one furiously to think! Why have the processes in each country worked so badly?
Cheer up! The Belgian PM has just resigned, the French Police are about to strike and German economic confidence is at its lowest in over a decade. Everything’s going so well.....
....and the UK leaving with No Deal is going to push all of them into recession.
Merry Christmas, Europe.
Welcome to leaver world, where covering oneself in shit is fine provided that third parties get hit by the odd splatter.
I'm so sorry that reality has splattered your pristine garments.....
The EU will pick up your dry-cleaning bill. After all, they are the ones flingng the backstop shit.
No they aren't. They, the RoI and the UK are supporting the backstop.
Indedd we agreed it a year ago and are now trying to break our word.
The wording of the text doesn’t match what was agreed in December last year
Also, to be fair, May is not “trying to break her word”. It’s debatable whether Parliament actually needs to ratify the treaty, but if it does (either politically or legally) then all May has committed to is to present the treaty to Parliament for their approval
Since 2010 any treaty has to be ratified by Parliament in a straight yes/no vote.
Rather than parliament reject the deal and then look at alternatives, the May tactic is for them to reject the alternatives and then look at the deal. Makes perfect sense. It's the logical sequence. You don't strangle the bird in your hand and then go looking for one in the bush. You first check if there IS one in the bush and only if there is, and it's a better looking one, do you close your eyes and your fist and do the deed. The cries of 'it's a scandal!, it's blackmail!' etc are unfounded. The PM is doing her level best to get the deal through. The scandal would be if she wasn't.
That was the case people thought might be a subpoena on the president himself since the courts were locked down and reporters excluded. Rosneft, eh? Is that reliable?
I think Sajid Javid is a definite lay now in the race to succeed Mrs May.
What a disastrous interview.
Only Hunt left at this rate. I mean Raab has been shown to be far too inexperienced. Boris can't ever be written off, but somehow he has to get some more MPs onboard.
Hammond might still appeal as the old pope elected by young cardinals, as a one-term leader who'd give more junior candidates a chance to prove themselves. Otherwise Hunt should be favourite.
What is the EU doing about the Hungarian government though? I don't see the point of the EU if one of its fundamental purposes is not to protect liberal democracy across Europe.
Put the Withdrawal Agreement back to MPs – but decouple it from the political declaration. Assuming the indicative votes indicate no majority for a referendum and no majority for a no deal exit, the Prime Minister can take it that there are the votes for an orderly Brexit.
Her deal is the only one on offer that can guarantee an orderly Brexit. She could say to MPs that they need to pass that part of her deal (and the Withdrawal Agreement Bill) to ensure a transition and an opening of negotiations on the future relationship.
She could then make a virtue of the vagueness of the political declaration – the 27 pages on non-legally binding text on the future framework. It encompasses a range of relationships and where the EU has repeatedly made clear that others are possible if UK red lines change.
Yes. Because the WA is all the EU care about. That is the Deal, really. And it is compatible with all sorts of FTAs. Norway, Chequers, Labour BINO, even Canada if a high tech border proves possible, all of these can be pursued. We just need to decide if we are leaving the EU and if we are we need to ratify the WA. This truth will surely dawn at some point.
I think Sajid Javid is a definite lay now in the race to succeed Mrs May.
What a disastrous interview.
Only Hunt left at this rate. I mean Raab has been shown to be far too inexperienced. Boris can't ever be written off, but somehow he has to get some more MPs onboard.
Hammond might still appeal as the old pope elected by young cardinals, as a one-term leader who'd give more junior candidates a chance to prove themselves. Otherwise Hunt should be favourite.
Hunt is so totally transparent. He'll make out that he is a Remainer, soft Brexiter or No Deal Brexiter depending on which day of the week it is. He only believes in one thing - furthering his own career.
Hopefully he has now got to the grips with the tricky issue of where his wife is from.
What is the EU doing about the Hungarian government though? I don't see the point of the EU if one of its fundamental purposes is not to protect liberal democracy across Europe.
What is the EU going to do about election results it doesn't like - overturn them? Orban's party scored 59 per cent in the most recent opinion poll - and in second place was the far right Jobbik party on 12 percent. So that is nearly three quarters of Hungarians who back Orban or think he is too moderate.
Whether you approve or not - isn't it ultimately a matter for the people of Hungary to decide their government and not the EU? And they seem overall rather content.
Which is of course the problem - how does the EU deal with voters when they don't vote 'the right way'?
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
South Georgia is magnificient and should be on everyone's bucket list
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
That's very grudging. If only you could see the shitshow that the Brexiter PMs made of the negotiations in those parallel universes.
The two major Anglophone countries are deep in the brown stuff due to incompetent Governments. Yet both came to power as a result of an acknowleged democratic process.
Makes one furiously to think! Why have the processes in each country worked so badly?
Cheer up! The Belgian PM has just resigned, the French Police are about to strike and German economic confidence is at its lowest in over a decade. Everything’s going so well.....
....and the UK leaving with No Deal is going to push all of them into recession.
Merry Christmas, Europe.
Welcome to leaver world, where covering oneself in shit is fine provided that third parties get hit by the odd splatter.
I'm so sorry that reality has splattered your pristine garments.....
The EU will pick up your dry-cleaning bill. After all, they are the ones flingng the backstop shit.
No they aren't. They, the RoI and the UK are supporting the backstop.
Indedd we agreed it a year ago and are now trying to break our word.
The wording of the text doesn’t match what was agreed in December last year
Also, to be fair, May is not “trying to break her word”. It’s debatable whether Parliament actually needs to ratify the treaty, but if it does (either politically or legally) then all May has committed to is to present the treaty to Parliament for their approval
Personally, I think the Backstop the best feature of the Deal. It is particularly good for NI as it maintains the majority of the benefits of EU membership at no cost.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
South Georgia is magnificient and should be on everyone's bucket list
Is there anything there apart from birds and seals?
That was the case people thought might be a subpoena on the president himself since the courts were locked down and reporters excluded. Rosneft, eh? Is that reliable?
Well it's certainly a foreign government owned company, as per the court ruling. And it's widely reported that it is a company which acquired 19.5% of Glencore (though I'm not sure of the source for that) - which would make it Rosneft.
Oh dear, will the Tories have written off the votes of all their strong leavers and workers earning under £30,000 in the next GE ?
I'm not sure how popular "immigrants claiming benefits" is among those on average earnings.....
Eh ? There are plenty of people earning sub 30k that don't claim a penny.
Its how its being presented in the Mail. The Cabinet fight was over £30,000 (May) vs £21,700 (Hammond, Employers who can't be arsed to train Brits) - at £21,700 plenty of benefits come into play.
The only reason I can see for a 30k cap is child benefit and tax credits. Once we're outside the EU can't we discriminate in favour of the natives against EU citizens for those benefits though ?
In much of London now you need to earn not far off £100k to even think about buying a one bed flat - more than that for a house which could accommodate a family or pay £1500 to £2000 a month to rent one. In much of the country a family where the breadwinner earns £30k and who doesn't own a home would struggle to make ends meet and fund their housing costs. The average house price is £230k and even more where most of the jobs are - do banks do 8 times salary mortgages?
Given our high cost of living surely a key criteria has to be will that person pay their way and they and their family not take out more in tax credits, housing benefit and public services like schools and the NHS than they pay in - if they are not doing a skilled or essential job. Let alone the pressures of an ever rising population on housing, services, transport infrastructure and more.
There is more to life and quality of life than headline GDP and growing that on the back of a low wage, high cost, job insecure, private renting insecure, just about making ends meet economy.
In much of London now you need to earn not far off £100k to even think about buying a one bed flat - more than that for a house which could accommodate a family or pay £1500 to £2000 a month to rent one. In much of the country a family earning £30k who doesn't own a home would struggle to make ends meet and fund their housing costs - the average house price is £230k and more where the jobs are - do banks do 8 times salary mortgages?
Given our high cost of living surely a key criteria has to be will that person pay their way and not take out more in tax credits, housing benefit and public services than they pay in - if they are not doing a skilled or essential job. Let alone the pressures of an ever rising population on housing, services, transport infrastructure and more.
There is more to life and quality of life than headline GDP and growing that on the back of a low wage, high cost, job insecure, private renting insecure, just about making ends meet economy.
Oh, if you're a FAMILY and need a whole house or flat then yes £30k is far too little. But if you're single and live in say err Sheffield then you can rent a room for £300/month https://www.spareroom.co.uk/flatshare/south_yorkshire/sheffield/11646313, £30k is plenty to live off. A points system taking into account age and wider circumstance would be more appropriate.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
South Georgia is magnificient and should be on everyone's bucket list
Is there anything there apart from birds and seals?
Snow covered high mountains, glaciers, whales, king penguins, elephant and fur seals. Only accessable by boat and is approx 800 miles south east of the Falklands. Made famous by Ernest Shackleton.
We called at it as part of our visit to Antartica and the Falklands, in what was one of our most enriching cruise holidays
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
South Georgia is magnificient and should be on everyone's bucket list
Is there anything there apart from birds and seals?
Snow covered high mountains, glaciers, whales, king penguins, elephant and fur seals. Only accessable by boat and is approx 800 miles south east of the Falklands. Made famous by Ernest Shackleton.
We called at it as part of our visit to Antartica and the Falklands, in what was one of our most enriching cruise holidays
I know a couple of people who have spent a lot of time with him. They were not impressed at all.
He always comes across as utterly wooden and leaden footed to me. I can see the general appeal of him as an idea, but what works in theory often fails to work in practice.
I know a couple of people who have spent a lot of time with him. They were not impressed at all.
He always comes across as utterly wooden and leaden footed to me. I can see the general appeal of him as an idea, but what works in theory often fails to work in practice.
One of the comments was "he has clearly spent too long in a glass office." Another got the strong impression he was literally going nowhere at Deutsche when he worked there.
This is so egregious an example, I’m surprised it didn’t have greater consequences for her.
I haven't seen the Trust's report; were BBC News making up this bit - "It is striking that the Trust itself said there was 'no evidence of bias'. Indeed, it also said the news report was 'compiled in good faith'."?
Also, in the interview referred to, LK did Corbyn a favour in my view. When asked whether he would "order security services onto the street to stop people being killed"
He replied "Of course you'd bring people onto the streets to prevent and ensure there is safety within our society."
I think Sajid Javid is a definite lay now in the race to succeed Mrs May.
What a disastrous interview.
Only Hunt left at this rate. I mean Raab has been shown to be far too inexperienced. Boris can't ever be written off, but somehow he has to get some more MPs onboard.
Please let this be true for my betting position but I think McVey has played this well and could be a dark horse candidate at this stage. Resigned, so got potentially the ERG support, has kept herself out of the TV studios except for one, generally decent / no disaster interview where she signalled she would be willing to stand for the leadership (so signalled intent) and has been careful to not say much since. On the basis that everyone else seems to be blowing themselves up, that could work well.
And, as an ex-TV presenter, she probably has an advantage in working the media.
In much of London now you need to earn not far off £100k to even think about buying a one bed flat - more than that for a house which could accommodate a family or pay £1500 to £2000 a month to rent one. In much of the country a family earning £30k who doesn't own a home would struggle to make ends meet and fund their housing costs - the average house price is £230k and more where the jobs are - do banks do 8 times salary mortgages?
Given our high cost of living surely a key criteria has to be will that person pay their way and not take out more in tax credits, housing benefit and public services than they pay in - if they are not doing a skilled or essential job. Let alone the pressures of an ever rising population on housing, services, transport infrastructure and more.
There is more to life and quality of life than headline GDP and growing that on the back of a low wage, high cost, job insecure, private renting insecure, just about making ends meet economy.
Oh, if you're a FAMILY and need a whole house or flat then yes £30k is far too little. But if you're single and live in say err Sheffield then you can rent a room for £300/month https://www.spareroom.co.uk/flatshare/south_yorkshire/sheffield/11646313, £30k is plenty to live off. A points system taking into account age and wider circumstance would be more appropriate.
I don't know if this helps the debate but my household income is approx £100k and I own a large period four-bedroomed house in a nice (if relatively dull) London suburb. London does not begin and end at the boundary of Zone 2, which many provincial PBers seem to think it does judging by the calculations on here.
(Pulpstar is not one of them, and has often corrected such mistakes by finding houses/flats down here that are affordable).
This is so egregious an example, I’m surprised it didn’t have greater consequences for her.
I haven't seen the Trust's report; were BBC News making up this bit - "It is striking that the Trust itself said there was 'no evidence of bias'. Indeed, it also said the news report was 'compiled in good faith'."?
Also, in the interview referred to, LK did Corbyn a favour in my view. When asked whether he would "order security services onto the street to stop people being killed"
He replied "Of course you'd bring people onto the streets to prevent and ensure there is safety within our society."
He doesn't even make sense.
I didn't accuse her of bias. I accused her of being a crap journalist.
Believe me, attributing an answer to a different question would result in major censure if not a sacking for most journalists. It really is a very fundamental fail.
In much of London now you need to earn not far off £100k to even think about buying a one bed flat - more than that for a house which could accommodate a family or pay £1500 to £2000 a month to rent one. In much of the country a family earning £30k who doesn't own a home would struggle to make ends meet and fund their housing costs - the average house price is £230k and more where the jobs are - do banks do 8 times salary mortgages?
Given our high cost of living surely a key criteria has to be will that person pay their way and not take out more in tax credits, housing benefit and public services than they pay in - if they are not doing a skilled or essential job. Let alone the pressures of an ever rising population on housing, services, transport infrastructure and more.
There is more to life and quality of life than headline GDP and growing that on the back of a low wage, high cost, job insecure, private renting insecure, just about making ends meet economy.
Oh, if you're a FAMILY and need a whole house or flat then yes £30k is far too little. But if you're single and live in say err Sheffield then you can rent a room for £300/month https://www.spareroom.co.uk/flatshare/south_yorkshire/sheffield/11646313, £30k is plenty to live off. A points system taking into account age and wider circumstance would be more appropriate.
Point is - do we necessarily want to import unskilled people who can only afford to 'rent a room' in Sheffield. Cos that means one less room for a rough sleeper or one less flat for a family already here? And that is before we factor in our crazy tax credits system and housing benefit - which again are driven by high housing costs in the private rented sector.
When Osborne failed in his attempt to reform tax credits a while back there was a woman on Question time complaining that if her tax credits were cut she wouldn't be able to afford her rent. No one of course thought - isn't it the high rent that is the problem not the tax credits. Cos if her rent was lower - she wouldn't have needed the taxpayer top up perhaps?
Again it depends if you want a happy society or a rising GDP on the back of cheap labour, insecure and expensive housing, taxpayer subsidies to fund the cheap labour and costly housing and the social problems which result.
Do we want just about making ends meet in Sheffield migrants - or those who will be significant net contributors or are highly skilled to fill jobs we really need as a society (e.g nurses not baristas).
Do we want just about making ends meet in Sheffield migrants - or those who will be significant net contributors or are highly skilled to fill jobs we really need as a society (e.g nurses not baristas).
I think Sajid Javid is a definite lay now in the race to succeed Mrs May.
What a disastrous interview.
Only Hunt left at this rate. I mean Raab has been shown to be far too inexperienced. Boris can't ever be written off, but somehow he has to get some more MPs onboard.
Please let this be true for my betting position but I think McVey has played this well and could be a dark horse candidate at this stage. Resigned, so got potentially the ERG support, has kept herself out of the TV studios except for one, generally decent / no disaster interview where she signalled she would be willing to stand for the leadership (so signalled intent) and has been careful to not say much since. On the basis that everyone else seems to be blowing themselves up, that could work well.
And, as an ex-TV presenter, she probably has an advantage in working the media.
A couple of flaws
1. She is making an utter hash of her role at DWP – and sitting on the UC time bomb 2. She is an odious woman who is dating one of the most repellent MPs in the Commons
Do we want just about making ends meet in Sheffield migrants - or those who will be significant net contributors or are highly skilled to fill jobs we really need as a society (e.g nurses not baristas).
Nurses err... start on less than 30k.
Stop bringing facts into a debate about immigration.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
South Georgia is magnificient and should be on everyone's bucket list
Is there anything there apart from birds and seals?
Snow covered high mountains, glaciers, whales, king penguins, elephant and fur seals. Only accessable by boat and is approx 800 miles south east of the Falklands. Made famous by Ernest Shackleton.
We called at it as part of our visit to Antartica and the Falklands, in what was one of our most enriching cruise holidays
That sounds like an incredible trip.
It was our retirement present to each other in 2009 and was a voyage into a world of unbelievable beauty and experiences. We landed on Antartica under strict environment and safety procedures and got up close with the king penguins and seals. One of the bays we arrived at had 22 glaciers, flat calm sea with icebergs and whales gently carving through the crystal clear water. We also had several days of hurricane seas.
It was a privilege to experience this most beautiful and spectacular part of our planet
I think Sajid Javid is a definite lay now in the race to succeed Mrs May.
What a disastrous interview.
Only Hunt left at this rate. I mean Raab has been shown to be far too inexperienced. Boris can't ever be written off, but somehow he has to get some more MPs onboard.
Please let this be true for my betting position but I think McVey has played this well and could be a dark horse candidate at this stage. Resigned, so got potentially the ERG support, has kept herself out of the TV studios except for one, generally decent / no disaster interview where she signalled she would be willing to stand for the leadership (so signalled intent) and has been careful to not say much since. On the basis that everyone else seems to be blowing themselves up, that could work well.
And, as an ex-TV presenter, she probably has an advantage in working the media.
Are you referring to the TV interview in which she said we'd have the two year transition period to plan for a No Deal Brexit?
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
That's very grudging. If only you could see the shitshow that the Brexiter PMs made of the negotiations in those parallel universes.
We'll never know in this universe, because the Remainers insisted on keeping the process restricted amongst a handful of themselves, whilst cutting the Brexit Ministers out the loop.
I think Sajid Javid is a definite lay now in the race to succeed Mrs May.
What a disastrous interview.
Only Hunt left at this rate. I mean Raab has been shown to be far too inexperienced. Boris can't ever be written off, but somehow he has to get some more MPs onboard.
Please let this be true for my betting position but I think McVey has played this well and could be a dark horse candidate at this stage. Resigned, so got potentially the ERG support, has kept herself out of the TV studios except for one, generally decent / no disaster interview where she signalled she would be willing to stand for the leadership (so signalled intent) and has been careful to not say much since. On the basis that everyone else seems to be blowing themselves up, that could work well.
And, as an ex-TV presenter, she probably has an advantage in working the media.
A couple of flaws
1. She is making an utter hash of her role at DWP – and sitting on the UC time bomb 2. She is an odious woman who is dating one of the most repellent MPs in the Commons
Esther The Jester (REJECTED)
Edit: I see she quit as Pensions Secretary. I hadn't noticed. Still, her record there will haunt her.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
That's very grudging. If only you could see the shitshow that the Brexiter PMs made of the negotiations in those parallel universes.
We'll never know in this universe, because the Remainers insisted on keeping the process restricted amongst a handful of themselves, whilst cutting the Brexit Ministers out the loop.
This handful own May's Shit Deal that resulted.
Of course - it is all someone else's fault. Of course.
The FTA that Davis and Patterson negotiated with Oklahoma shows exactly what could have been achieved if the Brexiteers had not fallen out among themselves, put personal ambition above the country and actually contested the Conservative party leadership election in 2016.
Do we want just about making ends meet in Sheffield migrants - or those who will be significant net contributors or are highly skilled to fill jobs we really need as a society (e.g nurses not baristas).
Nurses err... start on less than 30k.
Not been following this story this morning, but does the cap include overtime? Workers such as nurses often add a lot to their salaries with overtime.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
South Georgia is magnificient and should be on everyone's bucket list
Is there anything there apart from birds and seals?
Snow covered high mountains, glaciers, whales, king penguins, elephant and fur seals. Only accessable by boat and is approx 800 miles south east of the Falklands. Made famous by Ernest Shackleton.
We called at it as part of our visit to Antartica and the Falklands, in what was one of our most enriching cruise holidays
That sounds like an incredible trip.
It was our retirement present to each other in 2009 and was a voyage into a world of unbelievable beauty and experiences. We landed on Antartica under strict environment and safety procedures and got up close with the king penguins and seals. One of the bays we arrived at had 22 glaciers, flat calm sea with icebergs and whales gently carving through the crystal clear water. We also had several days of hurricane seas.
It was a privilege to experience this most beautiful and spectacular part of our planet
Lucky you. I glimpsed land in Antarctica at first light, then a 48 hour storm meant anyone not up at penguin's fart never saw it. The ship's captain, a Dutch chap in his 70's, said those 48 hours were the worst conditions of his entire career..... Icebergs with a Force 11 behind them can't half shift! We eventually made it out, to head on to South Georgia and beyond.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
South Georgia is magnificient and should be on everyone's bucket list
Is there anything there apart from birds and seals?
Snow covered high mountains, glaciers, whales, king penguins, elephant and fur seals. Only accessable by boat and is approx 800 miles south east of the Falklands. Made famous by Ernest Shackleton.
We called at it as part of our visit to Antartica and the Falklands, in what was one of our most enriching cruise holidays
That sounds like an incredible trip.
It was our retirement present to each other in 2009 and was a voyage into a world of unbelievable beauty and experiences. We landed on Antartica under strict environment and safety procedures and got up close with the king penguins and seals. One of the bays we arrived at had 22 glaciers, flat calm sea with icebergs and whales gently carving through the crystal clear water. We also had several days of hurricane seas.
It was a privilege to experience this most beautiful and spectacular part of our planet
Fantastic.
But in 2009, didn't you regret missing some of the "Gordon Brown is crap" discussions here on PB?
Only Hunt left at this rate. I mean Raab has been shown to be far too inexperienced. Boris can't ever be written off, but somehow he has to get some more MPs onboard.
Please let this be true for my betting position but I think McVey has played this well and could be a dark horse candidate at this stage. Resigned, so got potentially the ERG support, has kept herself out of the TV studios except for one, generally decent / no disaster interview where she signalled she would be willing to stand for the leadership (so signalled intent) and has been careful to not say much since. On the basis that everyone else seems to be blowing themselves up, that could work well.
And, as an ex-TV presenter, she probably has an advantage in working the media.
Are you referring to the TV interview in which she said we'd have the two year transition period to plan for a No Deal Brexit?
I think Sajid Javid is a definite lay now in the race to succeed Mrs May.
What a disastrous interview.
Only Hunt left at this rate. I mean Raab has been shown to be far too inexperienced. Boris can't ever be written off, but somehow he has to get some more MPs onboard.
Please let this be true for my betting position but I think McVey has played this well and could be a dark horse candidate at this stage. Resigned, so got potentially the ERG support, has kept herself out of the TV studios except for one, generally decent / no disaster interview where she signalled she would be willing to stand for the leadership (so signalled intent) and has been careful to not say much since. On the basis that everyone else seems to be blowing themselves up, that could work well.
And, as an ex-TV presenter, she probably has an advantage in working the media.
A couple of flaws
1. She is making an utter hash of her role at DWP – and sitting on the UC time bomb 2. She is an odious woman who is dating one of the most repellent MPs in the Commons
Esther The Jester (REJECTED)
Edit: I see she quit as Pensions Secretary. I hadn't noticed. Still, her record there will haunt her.
Don't think it will. she came out relatively unscathed - look at what happened with Rudd and Windrush vs McVey and UC. There is enough that she can lay at the door of Osborne and IDS for any future problems.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
That's very grudging. If only you could see the shitshow that the Brexiter PMs made of the negotiations in those parallel universes.
We'll never know in this universe, because the Remainers insisted on keeping the process restricted amongst a handful of themselves, whilst cutting the Brexit Ministers out the loop.
This handful own May's Shit Deal that resulted.
Of course - it is all someone else's fault. Of course.
The FTA that Davis and Patterson negotiated with Oklahoma shows exactly what could have been achieved if the Brexiteers had not fallen out among themselves, put personal ambition above the country and actually contested the Conservative party leadership election in 2016.
I think Sajid Javid is a definite lay now in the race to succeed Mrs May.
What a disastrous interview.
Only Hunt left at this rate. I mean Raab has been shown to be far too inexperienced. Boris can't ever be written off, but somehow he has to get some more MPs onboard.
Please let this be true for my betting position but I think McVey has played this well and could be a dark horse candidate at this stage. Resigned, so got potentially the ERG support, has kept herself out of the TV studios except for one, generally decent / no disaster interview where she signalled she would be willing to stand for the leadership (so signalled intent) and has been careful to not say much since. On the basis that everyone else seems to be blowing themselves up, that could work well.
And, as an ex-TV presenter, she probably has an advantage in working the media.
Are you referring to the TV interview in which she said we'd have the two year transition period to plan for a No Deal Brexit?
If that is one post-her resignation where she signaled she would stand for leader, then yes. But, maybe it is just me, she seems to have copped a lot less flak for that than some of Raab's utterances.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
South Georgia is magnificient and should be on everyone's bucket list
Is there anything there apart from birds and seals?
Snow covered high mountains, glaciers, whales, king penguins, elephant and fur seals. Only accessable by boat and is approx 800 miles south east of the Falklands. Made famous by Ernest Shackleton.
We called at it as part of our visit to Antartica and the Falklands, in what was one of our most enriching cruise holidays
That sounds like an incredible trip.
It was our retirement present to each other in 2009 and was a voyage into a world of unbelievable beauty and experiences. We landed on Antartica under strict environment and safety procedures and got up close with the king penguins and seals. One of the bays we arrived at had 22 glaciers, flat calm sea with icebergs and whales gently carving through the crystal clear water. We also had several days of hurricane seas.
It was a privilege to experience this most beautiful and spectacular part of our planet
Lucky you. I glimpsed land in Antarctica at first light, then a 48 hour storm meant anyone not up at penguin's fart never saw it. The ship's captain, a Dutch chap in his 70's, said those 48 hours were the worst conditions of his entire career..... Icebergs with a Force 11 behind them can't half shift! We eventually made it out, to head on to South Georgia and beyond.
We experienced similar sea conditions at times and are fortunate that we are excellent sailors and considered it part of the voyage
On immigration, one of the key issues is the process. When I got a visa to work in Spain it involved leaving Spain and going back to the UK to get all the paperwork done via the Spanish consulate. That would be a disastrous system for many industries if it happened in the UK.
Again, we should revisit the brilliant piece from RCS's friend who ran the tech start-up to understand just how important it is to get good people very quickly. If the government fails to reflect that in its policy it will have a very negative effect very, very quickly.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
South Georgia is magnificient and should be on everyone's bucket list
Is there anything there apart from birds and seals?
Snow covered high mountains, glaciers, whales, king penguins, elephant and fur seals. Only accessable by boat and is approx 800 miles south east of the Falklands. Made famous by Ernest Shackleton.
We called at it as part of our visit to Antartica and the Falklands, in what was one of our most enriching cruise holidays
That sounds like an incredible trip.
It was our retirement present to each other in 2009 and was a voyage into a world of unbelievable beauty and experiences. We landed on Antartica under strict environment and safety procedures and got up close with the king penguins and seals. One of the bays we arrived at had 22 glaciers, flat calm sea with icebergs and whales gently carving through the crystal clear water. We also had several days of hurricane seas.
It was a privilege to experience this most beautiful and spectacular part of our planet
Fantastic.
But in 2009, didn't you regret missing some of the "Gordon Brown is crap" discussions here on PB?
Do we want just about making ends meet in Sheffield migrants - or those who will be significant net contributors or are highly skilled to fill jobs we really need as a society (e.g nurses not baristas).
Nurses err... start on less than 30k.
Stop bringing facts into a debate about immigration.
And nurses are skilled people and we are short of nurses - and we really do need nurses so in reality the government will need to move on the £30k cap for some professions. Maybe the issue is of course we don't pay nurses enough compared to many other western nations!
The Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis and others have been doing this all for years so its hardly rocket science. They maintain a list of skilled and shortage occupations - if you meet the criteria then you get the skilled visa. Salary is important but it clearly shouldn't be the only criteria.
Do we want just about making ends meet in Sheffield migrants - or those who will be significant net contributors or are highly skilled to fill jobs we really need as a society (e.g nurses not baristas).
Nurses err... start on less than 30k.
Stop bringing facts into a debate about immigration.
And nurses are skilled people and we are short of nurses - and we really do need nurses so in reality the government will need to move on the £30k cap for some professions. Maybe the issue is of course we don't pay nurses enough compared to many other western nations!
The Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis and others have been doing this all for years so its hardly rocket science. They maintain a list of skilled and shortage occupations - if you meet the criteria then you get the skilled visa. Salary is important but it clearly shouldn't be the only criteria.
Isn't the proposal actually that you need to be one or the other.
Ie if you're on a specific skills list (which I believe is intended to include NHS so therefore nurses are covered) then you are in regardless of salary. If you're not on the specific skills list then the salary is an alternative.
I think it is meant as either/or not both. You don't need to both be on a specific list of professions and above the salary threshold.
Do we want just about making ends meet in Sheffield migrants - or those who will be significant net contributors or are highly skilled to fill jobs we really need as a society (e.g nurses not baristas).
Nurses err... start on less than 30k.
Stop bringing facts into a debate about immigration.
And nurses are skilled people and we are short of nurses - and we really do need nurses so in reality the government will need to move on the £30k cap for some professions. Maybe the issue is of course we don't pay nurses enough compared to many other western nations!
The Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis and others have been doing this all for years so its hardly rocket science. They maintain a list of skilled and shortage occupations - if you meet the criteria then you get the skilled visa. Salary is important but it clearly shouldn't be the only criteria.
Do we want just about making ends meet in Sheffield migrants - or those who will be significant net contributors or are highly skilled to fill jobs we really need as a society (e.g nurses not baristas).
Nurses err... start on less than 30k.
Yes, that pay level is starting Band 6, so Senior Staff Nurse level. Our new recruits are almost always more junior than that so band 4 or 5.
Of course, what the government means by unskilled is actually just low pay. As long as investment bankers can come and go, they are happy.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
That's very grudging. If only you could see the shitshow that the Brexiter PMs made of the negotiations in those parallel universes.
We'll never know in this universe, because the Remainers insisted on keeping the process restricted amongst a handful of themselves, whilst cutting the Brexit Ministers out the loop.
This handful own May's Shit Deal that resulted.
Of course - it is all someone else's fault. Of course.
The FTA that Davis and Patterson negotiated with Oklahoma shows exactly what could have been achieved if the Brexiteers had not fallen out among themselves, put personal ambition above the country and actually contested the Conservative party leadership election in 2016.
Theresa May is the Boss From Hell.
The Brexiteers could have given Tory members the opportunity to vote for another boss. They chose not to.
In much of London now you need to earn not far off £100k to even think about buying a one bed flat - more than that for a house which could accommodate a family or pay £1500 to £2000 a month to rent one. In much of the country a family earning £30k who doesn't own a home would struggle to make ends meet and fund their housing costs - the average house price is £230k and more where the jobs are - do banks do 8 times salary mortgages?
Given our high cost of living surely a key criteria has to be will that person pay their way and not take out more in tax credits, housing benefit and public services than they pay in - if they are not doing a skilled or essential job. Let alone the pressures of an ever rising population on housing, services, transport infrastructure and more.
There is more to life and quality of life than headline GDP and growing that on the back of a low wage, high cost, job insecure, private renting insecure, just about making ends meet economy.
Oh, if you're a FAMILY and need a whole house or flat then yes £30k is far too little. But if you're single and live in say err Sheffield then you can rent a room for £300/month https://www.spareroom.co.uk/flatshare/south_yorkshire/sheffield/11646313, £30k is plenty to live off. A points system taking into account age and wider circumstance would be more appropriate.
I don't know if this helps the debate but my household income is approx £100k and I own a large period four-bedroomed house in a nice (if relatively dull) London suburb. London does not begin and end at the boundary of Zone 2, which many provincial PBers seem to think it does judging by the calculations on here.
(Pulpstar is not one of them, and has often corrected such mistakes by finding houses/flats down here that are affordable).
Quoting earnings and the value of the house you own is meaningless as it depends when you bought it. Four bed period houses in outer London (bar the less desirable parts) are hard to find at below £500k - even in cheaper areas. And that implies a salary required of well over £100k to buy it without a large deposit. Which I am assuming will not be the position of most new migrants.
Some people may earn only £20k but own a £1m house because they bought it 30 years ago when it maybe only cost £30k. Someone now would need to earn £250k to buy it on a mortgage. What is relevant is what salary you would need to buy it at now as a new arrival to the UK (i.e. no UK housing equity or high savings in UK terms). Cos if you had the latter why would you need to come to the UK for a better life?
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
That's very grudging. If only you could see the shitshow that the Brexiter PMs made of the negotiations in those parallel universes.
We'll never know in this universe, because the Remainers insisted on keeping the process restricted amongst a handful of themselves, whilst cutting the Brexit Ministers out the loop.
This handful own May's Shit Deal that resulted.
Of course - it is all someone else's fault. Of course.
The FTA that Davis and Patterson negotiated with Oklahoma shows exactly what could have been achieved if the Brexiteers had not fallen out among themselves, put personal ambition above the country and actually contested the Conservative party leadership election in 2016.
Theresa May is the Boss From Hell.
The Brexiteers could have given Tory members the opportunity to vote for another boss. They chose not to.
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal. She has to go before we get started on the Trade Agreement. After all, that will last not a few years but decades.
I penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
South Georgia is magnificient and should be on everyone's bucket list
Is there anything there apart from birds and seals?
Snow covered high mountains, glaciers, whales, king penguins, elephant and fur seals. Only accessable by boat and is approx 800 miles south east of the Falklands. Made famous by Ernest Shackleton.
We called at it as part of our visit to Antartica and the Falklands, in what was one of our most enriching cruise holidays
That sounds like an incredible trip.
It was our retirement present to each other in 2009 and was a voyage into a world of unbelievable beauty and experiences. We landed on Antartica under strict environment and safety procedures and got up close with the king penguins and seals. One of the bays we arrived at had 22 glaciers, flat calm sea with icebergs and whales gently carving through the crystal clear water. We also had several days of hurricane seas.
It was a privilege to experience this most beautiful and spectacular part of our planet
Lucky you. I glimpsed land in Antarctica at first light, then a 48 hour storm meant anyone not up at penguin's fart never saw it. The ship's captain, a Dutch chap in his 70's, said those 48 hours were the worst conditions of his entire career..... Icebergs with a Force 11 behind them can't half shift! We eventually made it out, to head on to South Georgia and beyond.
We experienced similar sea conditions at times and are fortunate that we are excellent sailors and considered it part of the voyage
When I crossed the Drake Passage on the Lyubov Orlova (subsequently broke her tow on the way to the breakers and subject of lurid headlines about cannibal rats) the captain came on the tannoy and said; 'There are two types of objects in your cabin. Those on the floor, and those which will shortly be on the floor. I suggest you intervene in the process'. It was pretty rocky and we were confined to our cabins for a day with ham sandwiches handed out - but great fun!
So as a deal hater yourself, you are reconsidering?
I have always said it was a shit deal.
Kerguelen is aFrench dependancy, not sure he would get a visa. Could I suggest South Georgia?
South Georgia is magnificient and should be on everyone's bucket list
Is there anything there apart from birds and seals?
That sounds like an incredible trip.
It was our retirement present to each other in 2009 and was a voyage into a world of unbelievable beauty and experiences. We landed on Antartica under strict environment and safety procedures and got up close with the king penguins and seals. One of the bays we arrived at had 22 glaciers, flat calm sea with icebergs and whales gently carving through the crystal clear water. We also had several days of hurricane seas.
It was a privilege to experience this most beautiful and spectacular part of our planet
Lucky you. I glimpsed land in Antarctica at first light, then a 48 hour storm meant anyone not up at penguin's fart never saw it. The ship's captain, a Dutch chap in his 70's, said those 48 hours were the worst conditions of his entire career..... Icebergs with a Force 11 behind them can't half shift! We eventually made it out, to head on to South Georgia and beyond.
We experienced similar sea conditions at times and are fortunate that we are excellent sailors and considered it part of the voyage
When I crossed the Drake Passage on the Lyubov Orlova (subsequently broke her tow on the way to the breakers and subject of lurid headlines about cannibal rats) the captain came on the tannoy and said; 'There are two types of objects in your cabin. Those on the floor, and those which will shortly be on the floor. I suggest you intervene in the process'. It was pretty rocky and we were confined to our cabins for a day with ham sandwiches handed out - but great fun!
There were only 6 of us in the dining room for breakfast with most confined to their cabins with anti sea sickness medication. The voyage from Antartica to South Georgia following Ernest Shackleton's sea route was mostly in a hurricane sea
Do we want just about making ends meet in Sheffield migrants - or those who will be significant net contributors or are highly skilled to fill jobs we really need as a society (e.g nurses not baristas).
Nurses err... start on less than 30k.
Stop bringing facts into a debate about immigration.
And nurses are skilled people and we are short of nurses - and we really do need nurses so in reality the government will need to move on the £30k cap for some professions. Maybe the issue is of course we don't pay nurses enough compared to many other western nations!
The Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis and others have been doing this all for years so its hardly rocket science. They maintain a list of skilled and shortage occupations - if you meet the criteria then you get the skilled visa. Salary is important but it clearly shouldn't be the only criteria.
Of course - but we have a separate policy for people from 30 or so other nations which doesn't differentiate between a brain surgeon and an unemployed man with five kids in terms of access to living in the UK permanently.
If you could apply our skilled migrant policy consistently and equally irrespective of the passport the person holds but on the skills they have you would have a better functioning system.
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/19/youtube-host-faces-charges-for-criticising-thai-princesss-miss-universe-dress
The process could look something like the following:
Step 1: Have the meaningful vote – but if there is nothing new on the table, treat as a resumed debate. The Prime Minister could even use another of our suggested tactics and make it a free vote. Assuming the motion is defeated, make clear the immediate next step will be…
Step 2: Allow MPs to have indicative votes on another way forward. This would be to see whether there is any majority for a way forward. At the moment, it looks like no option commands a majority.
If that is right, the Prime Minister’s next gambit could be to try a cross-the-floor tactic designed to unite all those MPs who say they “want to respect the referendum” minus those who cannot accept her backstop.
The risk to her is that this could trigger a confidence motion where the DUP would back the Opposition, so she would need to be confident that her way forward could command cross-party support.
Step 3: Put the Withdrawal Agreement back to MPs – but decouple it from the political declaration. Assuming the indicative votes indicate no majority for a referendum and no majority for a no deal exit, the Prime Minister can take it that there are the votes for an orderly Brexit.
Her deal is the only one on offer that can guarantee an orderly Brexit. She could say to MPs that they need to pass that part of her deal (and the Withdrawal Agreement Bill) to ensure a transition and an opening of negotiations on the future relationship.
She could then make a virtue of the vagueness of the political declaration – the 27 pages on non-legally binding text on the future framework. It encompasses a range of relationships and where the EU has repeatedly made clear that others are possible if UK red lines change.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/how-prime-minister-could-break-stalemate-brexit
Jill Rutter, contemporary of May's and Civil Servant sidelined by Brown's bully boys in the Treasury....
😖
https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1075151045146357761
The company appears to be Rosneft.
This civil servant’s crime? Tweeting Ed Balls good luck on Strictly.
Also, to be fair, May is not “trying to break her word”. It’s debatable whether Parliament actually needs to ratify the treaty, but if it does (either politically or legally) then all May has committed to is to present the treaty to Parliament for their approval
I am not an ERG-er. I would take a deal - even May's Shit Deal - over the royal buggering of democracy that not delivering any Brexit condemns us to. No Deal should have been part of our negotiating strategy from day one. That it wasn't - and at one minute to midnight, May starts digging a bomb shelter - is risible. But we are where we are.
But I would have a price for agreeing to MSD:
a) May leaves office as soon as a new PM is in place. That replacement process starts April 2019
b) Olly Robbins spends the rest of his days counting penguins on the Kerguelen Islands. And never to be awarded a gong.
https://twitter.com/lionelbarber/status/1075284734975098880?s=21
What a disastrous interview.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1075318703527485440?s=21
Hopefully he has now got to the grips with the tricky issue of where his wife is from.
Orban's party scored 59 per cent in the most recent opinion poll - and in second place was the far right Jobbik party on 12 percent. So that is nearly three quarters of Hungarians who back Orban or think he is too moderate.
Whether you approve or not - isn't it ultimately a matter for the people of Hungary to decide their government and not the EU? And they seem overall rather content.
Which is of course the problem - how does the EU deal with voters when they don't vote 'the right way'?
He always sounds and acts like a Prime Minister in waiting.
That’s not my book talking. Honest.
To think he plays up this working class kid/son of immigrants card like he’s a man of the people.
And it's widely reported that it is a company which acquired 19.5% of Glencore (though I'm not sure of the source for that) - which would make it Rosneft.
Given our high cost of living surely a key criteria has to be will that person pay their way and they and their family not take out more in tax credits, housing benefit and public services like schools and the NHS than they pay in - if they are not doing a skilled or essential job. Let alone the pressures of an ever rising population on housing, services, transport infrastructure and more.
There is more to life and quality of life than headline GDP and growing that on the back of a low wage, high cost, job insecure, private renting insecure, just about making ends meet economy.
A points system taking into account age and wider circumstance would be more appropriate.
PB Tory Next Leader Bingo
Boris The Johnson (REJECTED)
Penny Splash (REJECTED)
Rory the Tory from Balamory (WHO?)
Magic Saj (REJECTED)
Jeremy Hunt the Massive ... (PENDING)
Pulpstar's cat will come into the running soon.
Chortle.
Unless they are going to start building the houses and schools for a city the size of Newcastle upon Tyne every year.....
We called at it as part of our visit to Antartica and the Falklands, in what was one of our most enriching cruise holidays
Also, in the interview referred to, LK did Corbyn a favour in my view. When asked whether he would "order security services onto the street to stop people being killed"
He replied "Of course you'd bring people onto the streets to prevent and ensure there is safety within our society."
He doesn't even make sense.
And, as an ex-TV presenter, she probably has an advantage in working the media.
(Pulpstar is not one of them, and has often corrected such mistakes by finding houses/flats down here that are affordable).
Believe me, attributing an answer to a different question would result in major censure if not a sacking for most journalists. It really is a very fundamental fail.
https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/1075332646652297216
When Osborne failed in his attempt to reform tax credits a while back there was a woman on Question time complaining that if her tax credits were cut she wouldn't be able to afford her rent. No one of course thought - isn't it the high rent that is the problem not the tax credits. Cos if her rent was lower - she wouldn't have needed the taxpayer top up perhaps?
Again it depends if you want a happy society or a rising GDP on the back of cheap labour, insecure and expensive housing, taxpayer subsidies to fund the cheap labour and costly housing and the social problems which result.
Do we want just about making ends meet in Sheffield migrants - or those who will be significant net contributors or are highly skilled to fill jobs we really need as a society (e.g nurses not baristas).
I'm concerned that your wager will turn out to be a value loser Mark!
1. She is making an utter hash of her role at DWP – and sitting on the UC time bomb
2. She is an odious woman who is dating one of the most repellent MPs in the Commons
Esther The Jester (REJECTED)
It was a privilege to experience this most beautiful and spectacular part of our planet
This handful own May's Shit Deal that resulted.
The FTA that Davis and Patterson negotiated with Oklahoma shows exactly what could have been achieved if the Brexiteers had not fallen out among themselves, put personal ambition above the country and actually contested the Conservative party leadership election in 2016.
But in 2009, didn't you regret missing some of the "Gordon Brown is crap" discussions here on PB?
Only Hunt left at this rate. I mean Raab has been shown to be far too inexperienced. Boris can't ever be written off, but somehow he has to get some more MPs onboard.
Please let this be true for my betting position but I think McVey has played this well and could be a dark horse candidate at this stage. Resigned, so got potentially the ERG support, has kept herself out of the TV studios except for one, generally decent / no disaster interview where she signalled she would be willing to stand for the leadership (so signalled intent) and has been careful to not say much since. On the basis that everyone else seems to be blowing themselves up, that could work well.
And, as an ex-TV presenter, she probably has an advantage in working the media.
Are you referring to the TV interview in which she said we'd have the two year transition period to plan for a No Deal Brexit?
Don't think it will. she came out relatively unscathed - look at what happened with Rudd and Windrush vs McVey and UC. There is enough that she can lay at the door of Osborne and IDS for any future problems.
Again, we should revisit the brilliant piece from RCS's friend who ran the tech start-up to understand just how important it is to get good people very quickly. If the government fails to reflect that in its policy it will have a very negative effect very, very quickly.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/13/guest-slot-the-impact-of-leaving-the-eu-on-londons-technology-start-up-scene/
Note that we have already lost our private equity lead to the Netherlands:
https://www.ft.com/content/72ef5dbe-ff88-11e8-aebf-99e208d3e521
The Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis and others have been doing this all for years so its hardly rocket science. They maintain a list of skilled and shortage occupations - if you meet the criteria then you get the skilled visa. Salary is important but it clearly shouldn't be the only criteria.
A reasonably healthy set of numbers all round.
Ie if you're on a specific skills list (which I believe is intended to include NHS so therefore nurses are covered) then you are in regardless of salary.
If you're not on the specific skills list then the salary is an alternative.
I think it is meant as either/or not both. You don't need to both be on a specific list of professions and above the salary threshold.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-k-shortage-occupation-list
Which, surprise surprise, includes nurses.
Of course, what the government means by unskilled is actually just low pay. As long as investment bankers can come and go, they are happy.
Quoting earnings and the value of the house you own is meaningless as it depends when you bought it. Four bed period houses in outer London (bar the less desirable parts) are hard to find at below £500k - even in cheaper areas. And that implies a salary required of well over £100k to buy it without a large deposit. Which I am assuming will not be the position of most new migrants.
Some people may earn only £20k but own a £1m house because they bought it 30 years ago when it maybe only cost £30k. Someone now would need to earn £250k to buy it on a mortgage. What is relevant is what salary you would need to buy it at now as a new arrival to the UK (i.e. no UK housing equity or high savings in UK terms). Cos if you had the latter why would you need to come to the UK for a better life?
The important thing is to have a control dial rather than arguing about what the setting on the dial might be at any one time.
If you could apply our skilled migrant policy consistently and equally irrespective of the passport the person holds but on the skills they have you would have a better functioning system.