She isn't really. She's simply attacking Labour rather than answering key and important questions. She is doing it competently enough that it might swing a few more Tory MP votes her way.
My impression too. At a time of national crisis, Corbyn's questions were valid ones to which the whole country wants answers and yet she couldn't bring herself to address them. She just chose to ignore him and by implication us. I don't though think that she even did that competently. She didn't come across like a PM at all and doesn't deserve another chance.
Boris would command the confidence of the house if he gets through to the final two I think. I simply don't think there are 7 MPs prepared to vote Corbyn in.
There are 20 - 50 conservative mps who would resign the whip and paralyse his leadership but not vote against in a vnoc
If May wins this, I think it could make it a lot easier to peel the DUP off to support a parliamentary VONC.
That want the deal gone, they (with a heavy heart) therefore need May gone. If the Tories remove one alleyway for removing May, the DUP would presumably more likely to support the other?
In some ways a good thing, either May wins a majority on a manifesto commitment for her Deal or Corbyn likely leads a minority government propped up by the SNP and we end up with BINO ie permanent Customs Union and maybe permanent Single Market too. Either way we avoid No Deal
Its increasingly difficult for Tory MPs to say that people can't change their mind on Brexit and have a vote when apparently its ok for those same Tory MPs to change their minds on the leadership and have a vote?
No, this is still a stupid argument as explained repeatedly on the last thread.
May has just reached the 158 MPs she needs to stay Tory leader and win the VONC according to BBC news research of public declarations of support with 33 Tory MPs declaring they will vote against her.
Though of course in the privacy of the ballot booth nothing is guaranteed
My cat – conveniently at the vet today having an operation. Calm and affectionate. Comes from Birmingham and has fathered 4 kittens. So should sew up the Midlands family vote. No other achievements and knows nothing at all about Brexit (or anything else, for that matter, other than the most comfortable chairs and when dinner time is). But that, surely, should not be an insuperable objection?
My cat is dead, but it is still ahead of the other entrants (apart from your cat). I might have a stuffed toy animal somewhere from when the kids were young. It might have teeth marks or chewed ear, but it is still smarter than the whole ERG
If May wins this, I think it could make it a lot easier to peel the DUP off to support a parliamentary VONC.
That want the deal gone, they (with a heavy heart) therefore need May gone. If the Tories remove one alleyway for removing May, the DUP would presumably more likely to support the other?
The DUP have previously said they will only no confidence the Government if the backstop passes. Therefore, as long as the Deal can't get through they can leave Theresa May where she is.
Her continued presence might even suit them. If she just sits like a lemon in Downing Street between now and March, running the clock down whilst Parliament can't agree what to do next, then the chance of a Hard Brexit steadily increases with each passing day. The DUP are a Leave-supporting party. I think they'd be content with that.
May has just reached the 158 MPs she needs to stay Tory leader and win the VONC according to BBC news research of public declarations of support with 33 Tory MPs declaring they will vote against her.
Though of course in the privacy of the ballot booth nothing is guaranteed
TM performance at PMQs has convinced me she has to lead us to Brexit. While I am not happy she may have 12 months in office at this moment no one else is near her
Its increasingly difficult for Tory MPs to say that people can't change their mind on Brexit and have a vote when apparently its ok for those same Tory MPs to change their minds on the leadership and have a vote?
No, this is still a stupid argument as explained repeatedly on the last thread.
Stupid or not (it's not), it's very, very resonant.
Barry Gardiner is Corbyns spokesman and embarrassingly poor. The Constant Gardener was an excellent film. I do wonder why posters on here point out that Corbyn is useless. Of course he is useless. That is why he was never given any job by Kinnock, Smith, Blair ,Brown or Miliband.Just accept the fact that he will always be useless and take it for granted.
Christ these remainers are absolute morons aren't they?
Are they ever going to stop throwing a tantrum over losing a democratic vote? It seems doubtful.
I like Cox as a presenter of things but sarky comments dont help if they are a reflection of how campaigners and decision makers intend to go about things. He and they need to be smarter if we ever get to a vote . But for blowing off steam I can hardly judge.
If May wins this, I think it could make it a lot easier to peel the DUP off to support a parliamentary VONC.
That want the deal gone, they (with a heavy heart) therefore need May gone. If the Tories remove one alleyway for removing May, the DUP would presumably more likely to support the other?
The DUP have previously said they will only no confidence the Government if the backstop passes.
Yes, but that was based, I think, on the assumption May would be knifed or resign. If the Tories decide, for whatever reason, that they're prepared to allow May to kick the can of her defunct deal down the road for another three months, I imagine we could see a recalibration of the DUP's desiderata.
TM performance at PMQs has convinced me she has to lead us to Brexit. While I am not happy she may have 12 months in office at this moment no one else is near her
That is a damning indictment of the entire cabinet and other would-be leadership contenders.
This "swivel-eyed loons" nonsense ... has to stop.
Ok. From now on I shall refer to them as self-absorbed, raving, xenophobic nutters. That way all sense of metaphor is removed and you get my unvarnished opinion of a bunch of people who seem to have to no conception of the damage they are causing nor do they seem to care much about it either.
The ERG were stupid for not getting 48 letters, now they're stupid for getting 48 letters. People who are virrulently against Brexit disliking a pro-Brexit group non-shock.
So realistically how many does she need to win this by in order to survive? 50+?
By 1. The old realities no longer exist.
John Major said he would have resigned if he'd got less than 65% support in 1995 vs John Redwood. That seems like a very high bar compared to today.
John Major was a "high bar" compared to today's political pygmies.
Really - hypocritical bonking grey man John led the party to one of their worst defeats in history
A defeat caused in part by some of the same Eurosceptic bottom-feeders who are now trying to bring Mrs May down.
Which he could have nipped in the bud by offering a referendum. But never mind that how about his record as chancellor when he imposed 15% interest rates so we could stay inside the ERM. That made the early nineties recession far worse for many than the 2008 crash. Bankruptcies and repossessions abounded, Were you there? I was and I can tell you in 1995 when I was standing as a young local candidate the visceral hatred of the Tories was something to behold. We lost 1000's of seats in places where we had never lost them before. It took 12 years to recover. Quite some record eh?
My cat – conveniently at the vet today having an operation. Calm and affectionate. Comes from Birmingham and has fathered 4 kittens. So should sew up the Midlands family vote. No other achievements and knows nothing at all about Brexit (or anything else, for that matter, other than the most comfortable chairs and when dinner time is). But that, surely, should not be an insuperable objection?
My cat is dead, but it is still ahead of the other entrants (apart from your cat). I might have a stuffed toy animal somewhere from when the kids were young. It might have teeth marks or chewed ear, but it is still smarter than the whole ERG
The mug I'm drinking my tea from is smarter than the whole ERG.
I have 4 cats and a dog. So really between my animals and your stuffed toys we can provide pretty much the whole Cabinet.
Its increasingly difficult for Tory MPs to say that people can't change their mind on Brexit and have a vote when apparently its ok for those same Tory MPs to change their minds on the leadership and have a vote?
No, this is still a stupid argument as explained repeatedly on the last thread.
Barry Gardiner is Corbyns spokesman and embarrassingly poor. The Constant Gardener was an excellent film. I do wonder why posters on here point out that Corbyn is useless. Of course he is useless. That is why he was never given any job by Kinnock, Smith, Blair ,Brown or Miliband.Just accept the fact that he will always be useless and take it for granted.
I didn't watch the pointless debate on Channel 4 the other night, but apparently Gardiner was sent on it to represent the Labour front bench position and performed awfully (I invite anybody who did see said performance to confirm or deny these reports.)
The performance - indeed, the very presence - of Corbyn and his allies is, of course, the reason why we still have a Conservative minority Government. A Labour top team that (a) consisted of figures who were vaguely competent and (b) wasn't full of Irish Republican sympathisers could have won the backing of the DUP without too much difficulty.
Christ these remainers are absolute morons aren't they?
Are they ever going to stop throwing a tantrum over losing a democratic vote? It seems doubtful.
I like Cox as a presenter of things but sarky comments dont help if they are a reflection of how campaigners and decision makers intend to go about things. He and they need to be smarter if we ever get to a vote . But for blowing off steam I can hardly judge.
I dislike Cox suspect he's a "wrong 'un" and probably a socialist to boot.
No, this is still a stupid argument as explained repeatedly on the last thread.
You mean you don't like it.
They had a vote. They are no longer happy with the result. They want to vote again and hope for a different outcome.
These are facts.
No, I mean it is stupid - because the attempted analogy is invalid. I can copy and paste my reply from the last thread if you need to read it again before you grasp the point.
Christ these remainers are absolute morons aren't they?
Are they ever going to stop throwing a tantrum over losing a democratic vote? It seems doubtful.
It's the kind of attitude that makes me certain that leave would win a second referendum. People don't like being told what to think at the best of times, let alone a second time, and they certainly don't like being told it by the intolerably smug. A second referendum wouldn't be about Brexit, it would be about a chance to stick two fingers up at the establishment. Again.
My cat – conveniently at the vet today having an operation. Calm and affectionate. Comes from Birmingham and has fathered 4 kittens. So should sew up the Midlands family vote. No other achievements and knows nothing at all about Brexit (or anything else, for that matter, other than the most comfortable chairs and when dinner time is). But that, surely, should not be an insuperable objection?
My cat is dead, but it is still ahead of the other entrants (apart from your cat). I might have a stuffed toy animal somewhere from when the kids were young. It might have teeth marks or chewed ear, but it is still smarter than the whole ERG
The mug I'm drinking my tea from is smarter than the whole ERG.
I have 4 cats and a dog. So really between my animals and your stuffed toys we can provide pretty much the whole Cabinet.
I have a goldfish. Can he (or she, I can't tell) have Liam Fox's job, please?
Helpfully the Daily Mail has a list of possible Tory leader contenders. Let’s examine their records.
Dominic Raab – a man who, despite having a seat in the South East, was unaware of the importance of the Dover – Calais route to Britain’s trade
Andrea Leadsom – famous or, perhaps, infamous for having allowed a wholly exaggerated account of her work and pre-Parliamentary experience to be put about. In normal circles, such exaggerations are known as lies and would get you disciplined and/or sacked not promoted to the Cabinet, where she has shone at nothing.
Sajid Javid – an ex-investment banker from Deutsche Bank (a red flag in itself) with all the charisma of a Dalek. His main claim to be leader is, apparently, where he was brought up. Perhaps we could make his Mum and Dad leader instead.
Amber Rudd – has a tiny majority, a questionable City career behind her and was not well-served by her officials at the Home Office. But at least had the decency and balls to show up at debates. Has been rude about Boris Johnson. So there is that in favour of her.
Penny Mordaunt – lied during the referendum about Turkey’s accession. Can swim. And make speeches with double entendres in them. If the House of Commons ever needs a front of house manager for its gym, she’d be a shoo-in.
Jacob Rees-Mogg – Jesus wept.
Gavin Williamson – Embarrassed himself and the country by shouting “shut up” at Russia during the Skripal affair. Could we not give him some raffia baskets to play with instead?
Michael Gove – has a brain. But not as big a brain as he thinks he has. Utterly untrustworthy. Is apparently doing good work at Defra. He should stay there.
Boris Johnson – a serial liar. His only achievement as Foreign Secretary was to ensure that a British citizen locked up abroad in a country not known for its good treatment of women prisoners had her sentence lengthened.
David Davis – lazy, self-important and achieved nothing as Brexit Secretary. Has spent the rest of the time concocting a fairy story that if he had only been given power he could have achieved wondrous things. Everything he said about Brexit before he became Brexit secretary has turned out to be a lie or wrong.
Jeremy Hunt – gets confused about where his wife is from. Claimed that the EU was like the Soviet Union, his combination of offensiveness and historical inaccuracy doubtless an attempt to make people remember who he is.
Esther McVey – Managed to lose her seat in 2015. No other known achievements.
snip
All of which sound somewhat better than a Corbyn led rainbow coalition.
Its increasingly difficult for Tory MPs to say that people can't change their mind on Brexit and have a vote when apparently its ok for those same Tory MPs to change their minds on the leadership and have a vote?
No, this is still a stupid argument as explained repeatedly on the last thread.
TM performance at PMQs has convinced me she has to lead us to Brexit. While I am not happy she may have 12 months in office at this moment no one else is near her
I expect her to win this confidence vote. But more importantly as I noted early it changes NOTHING with regards to the impossibility of getting her deal through Parliament. Notable from PMQs was her increasingly discomfort on trying to deflect demands for a commons vote on the deal - her position is absurd and she knows it.
What the confidence motion will do is cement in place the defeat to come for her deal. Once that happens she will not be able to lead regardless of the rules of the Tory Party and her tenure will end. No government defeated on its key policy unable to negotiate a way forward either with the other side or its own MPs is able to remain functional as the government. Regardless of their views on the opposition.
Things are more dangerous because of this vote. If May wins tonight, she still needs to win the Commons vote on her deal. However, her party will be more polarised and her internal opponents wounded and ever more alienated. Her only move will be to tack towards Labour in some way. However, she seems incapable of doing that. N. Meanwhile all the ERG have to do is sit on their hands and wait it out. If nothing happens, they win.
Christ these remainers are absolute morons aren't they?
Are they ever going to stop throwing a tantrum over losing a democratic vote? It seems doubtful.
I like Cox as a presenter of things but sarky comments dont help if they are a reflection of how campaigners and decision makers intend to go about things. He and they need to be smarter if we ever get to a vote . But for blowing off steam I can hardly judge.
I dislike Cox suspect he's a "wrong 'un" and probably a socialist to boot.
What's a "wrong 'un"? Someone with a different view to yours?
Christ these remainers are absolute morons aren't they?
Are they ever going to stop throwing a tantrum over losing a democratic vote? It seems doubtful.
It's the kind of attitude that makes me certain that leave would win a second referendum. People don't like being told what to think at the best of times, let alone a second time, and they certainly don't like being told it by the intolerably smug. A second referendum wouldn't be about Brexit, it would be about a chance to stick two fingers up at the establishment. Again.
I think you will be disappointed by the lack of a "stick two fingers up at the establishment" option.
My cat – conveniently at the vet today having an operation. Calm and affectionate. Comes from Birmingham and has fathered 4 kittens. So should sew up the Midlands family vote. No other achievements and knows nothing at all about Brexit (or anything else, for that matter, other than the most comfortable chairs and when dinner time is). But that, surely, should not be an insuperable objection?
My cat is dead, but it is still ahead of the other entrants (apart from your cat). I might have a stuffed toy animal somewhere from when the kids were young. It might have teeth marks or chewed ear, but it is still smarter than the whole ERG
The mug I'm drinking my tea from is smarter than the whole ERG.
I have 4 cats and a dog. So really between my animals and your stuffed toys we can provide pretty much the whole Cabinet.
My cat – conveniently at the vet today having an operation. Calm and affectionate. Comes from Birmingham and has fathered 4 kittens. So should sew up the Midlands family vote. No other achievements and knows nothing at all about Brexit (or anything else, for that matter, other than the most comfortable chairs and when dinner time is). But that, surely, should not be an insuperable objection?
My cat is dead, but it is still ahead of the other entrants (apart from your cat). I might have a stuffed toy animal somewhere from when the kids were young. It might have teeth marks or chewed ear, but it is still smarter than the whole ERG
The mug I'm drinking my tea from is smarter than the whole ERG.
I have 4 cats and a dog. So really between my animals and your stuffed toys we can provide pretty much the whole Cabinet.
Yes - I think we probably can.
Can I add 2 horses, 3 cats, 6 rabbits and 18 fish ?
Christ these remainers are absolute morons aren't they?
Are they ever going to stop throwing a tantrum over losing a democratic vote? It seems doubtful.
It's the kind of attitude that makes me certain that leave would win a second referendum. People don't like being told what to think at the best of times, let alone a second time, and they certainly don't like being told it by the intolerably smug. A second referendum wouldn't be about Brexit, it would be about a chance to stick two fingers up at the establishment. Again.
I think you will be disappointed by the lack of a "stick two fingers up at the establishment" option.
I think you will be disappointed by the lack of a second referendum.
Emily Thornberry calling out the Conservatives sordid propaganda campaign funded by public money. It is hard to find words to describe how low the Conservatives are. They do not care for democracy.
Things are more dangerous because of this vote. If May wins tonight, she still needs to win the Commons vote on her deal. However, her party will be more polarised and her internal opponents wounded and ever more alienated. Her only move will be to tack towards Labour in some way. However, she seems incapable of doing that. N. Meanwhile all the ERG have to do is sit on their hands and wait it out. If nothing happens, they win.
Yes. If I was among even the softest of remainers from the Tories, I would be one of the first to cast my no-confidence vote, and conversely, if I was among even the softest of Brexiters, I would be taking to the radio waves to support her.
Emily Thornberry calling out the Conservatives sordid propaganda campaign funded by public money. It is hard to find words to describe how low the Conservatives are. They do not care for democracy.
Don't care about democracy ? They are having a vote this evening !
Its increasingly difficult for Tory MPs to say that people can't change their mind on Brexit and have a vote when apparently its ok for those same Tory MPs to change their minds on the leadership and have a vote?
No, this is still a stupid argument as explained repeatedly on the last thread.
Stupid or not (it's not), it's very, very resonant.
My cat – conveniently at the vet today having an operation. Calm and affectionate. Comes from Birmingham and has fathered 4 kittens. So should sew up the Midlands family vote. No other achievements and knows nothing at all about Brexit (or anything else, for that matter, other than the most comfortable chairs and when dinner time is). But that, surely, should not be an insuperable objection?
My cat is dead, but it is still ahead of the other entrants (apart from your cat). I might have a stuffed toy animal somewhere from when the kids were young. It might have teeth marks or chewed ear, but it is still smarter than the whole ERG
The mug I'm drinking my tea from is smarter than the whole ERG.
I have 4 cats and a dog. So really between my animals and your stuffed toys we can provide pretty much the whole Cabinet.
Yes - I think we probably can.
Can I add 2 horses, 3 cats, 6 rabbits and 18 fish ?
TM performance at PMQs has convinced me she has to lead us to Brexit. While I am not happy she may have 12 months in office at this moment no one else is near her
I expect her to win this confidence vote. But more importantly as I noted early it changes NOTHING with regards to the impossibility of getting her deal through Parliament. Notable from PMQs was her increasingly discomfort on trying to deflect demands for a commons vote on the deal - her position is absurd and she knows it.
What the confidence motion will do is cement in place the defeat to come for her deal. Once that happens she will not be able to lead regardless of the rules of the Tory Party and her tenure will end. No government defeated on its key policy unable to negotiate a way forward either with the other side or its own MPs is able to remain functional as the government. Regardless of their views on the opposition.
I am sure you are not surprised but I do not agree. The deal will come to the HOC and the mps will no doubt put forward amendments and the HOC will show the way forward but TM will only leave office if labour succeed in a vnoc
Christ these remainers are absolute morons aren't they?
Are they ever going to stop throwing a tantrum over losing a democratic vote? It seems doubtful.
It's the kind of attitude that makes me certain that leave would win a second referendum. People don't like being told what to think at the best of times, let alone a second time, and they certainly don't like being told it by the intolerably smug. A second referendum wouldn't be about Brexit, it would be about a chance to stick two fingers up at the establishment. Again.
I think you will be disappointed by the lack of a "stick two fingers up at the establishment" option.
No-one will be stupid enough to have a second referendum William. They won't. Too hard. Not even a rigged one. It was done the minute the result came in, no matter how many grand plans it buggered up and how many powers and potentates were and are against it. There is no road back. You'd have been a lot happier over these past months had you accepted it.
Things are more dangerous because of this vote. If May wins tonight, she still needs to win the Commons vote on her deal. However, her party will be more polarised and her internal opponents wounded and ever more alienated. Her only move will be to tack towards Labour in some way. However, she seems incapable of doing that. N. Meanwhile all the ERG have to do is sit on their hands and wait it out. If nothing happens, they win.
Indeed. Her triumph will last until tomorrow when the EU summit tells her no further negotiation, no further compromise. At which point having hardened the opposition to her and her deal it WILL be demolished in the commons.
My cat – conveniently at the vet today having an operation. Calm and affectionate. Comes from Birmingham and has fathered 4 kittens. So should sew up the Midlands family vote. No other achievements and knows nothing at all about Brexit (or anything else, for that matter, other than the most comfortable chairs and when dinner time is). But that, surely, should not be an insuperable objection?
My cat is dead, but it is still ahead of the other entrants (apart from your cat). I might have a stuffed toy animal somewhere from when the kids were young. It might have teeth marks or chewed ear, but it is still smarter than the whole ERG
The mug I'm drinking my tea from is smarter than the whole ERG.
I have 4 cats and a dog. So really between my animals and your stuffed toys we can provide pretty much the whole Cabinet.
I have a goldfish. Can he (or she, I can't tell) have Liam Fox's job, please?
So realistically how many does she need to win this by in order to survive? 50+?
By 1. The old realities no longer exist.
John Major said he would have resigned if he'd got less than 65% support in 1995 vs John Redwood. That seems like a very high bar compared to today.
John Major was a "high bar" compared to today's political pygmies.
Really - hypocritical bonking grey man John led the party to one of their worst defeats in history
A defeat caused in part by some of the same Eurosceptic bottom-feeders who are now trying to bring Mrs May down.
Which he could have nipped in the bud by offering a referendum. But never mind that how about his record as chancellor when he imposed 15% interest rates so we could stay inside the ERM. That made the early nineties recession far worse for many than the 2008 crash. Bankruptcies and repossessions abounded, Were you there? I was and I can tell you in 1995 when I was standing as a young local candidate the visceral hatred of the Tories was something to behold. We lost 1000's of seats in places where we had never lost them before. It took 12 years to recover. Quite some record eh?
Yes - I was there on ERM day and, as I recall, the 15% lasted a day or so and was caused by trying to hedge against currency speculators. That was the day that the Bank of England learned that Soros et al had more clout than they did.
There was a visceral hatred of the Tories from the early 80s onward, especially after the Miner's Strike and Union legislation, but having a party divided against itself also added to the narrative that they were unelectable. After 1997 they really were unelectable and came out with stupid policies and leaders with zero appeal. Hague, IDS, Michael Howard... FFS!
Major was not much good, but he looks good by comparison with the current shower.
Emily Thornberry calling out the Conservatives sordid propaganda campaign funded by public money. It is hard to find words to describe how low the Conservatives are. They do not care for democracy.
Don't care about democracy ? They are having a vote this evening !
Sorry having my own conversation.
Emily Thornberry was asking about the Conservative propaganda outfit called IntegrityInitivative which has been given public money to attack the Labour party.
Things are more dangerous because of this vote. If May wins tonight, she still needs to win the Commons vote on her deal. However, her party will be more polarised and her internal opponents wounded and ever more alienated. Her only move will be to tack towards Labour in some way. However, she seems incapable of doing that. N. Meanwhile all the ERG have to do is sit on their hands and wait it out. If nothing happens, they win.
Indeed. Her triumph will last until tomorrow when the EU summit tells her no further negotiation, no further compromise. At which point having hardened the opposition to her and her deal it WILL be demolished in the commons.
You are talking from your viewpoint of course but her deal will be voted on and whatever follows she will direct as PM unless labour have a successful vnoc.
The ERG were stupid for not getting 48 letters, now they're stupid for getting 48 letters. People who are virrulently against Brexit disliking a pro-Brexit group non-shock.
Win or lose they had to do it. Other mps should have long before now too. Respective strengths needs to be known.
Emily Thornberry calling out the Conservatives sordid propaganda campaign funded by public money. It is hard to find words to describe how low the Conservatives are. They do not care for democracy.
Don't care about democracy ? They are having a vote this evening !
Sorry having my own conversation.
Emily Thornberry was asking about the Conservative propaganda outfit called IntegrityInitivative which has been given public money to attack the Labour party.
Helpfully the Daily Mail has a list of possible Tory leader contenders. Let’s examine their records.
Dominic Raab – a man who, despite having a seat in the South East, was unaware of the importance of the Dover – Calais route to Britain’s trade
Andrea Leadsom – famous or, perhaps, infamous for having allowed a wholly exaggerated account of her work and pre-Parliamentary experience to be put about. In normal circles, such exaggerations are known as lies and would get you disciplined and/or sacked not promoted to the Cabinet, where she has shone at nothing.
Sajid Javid – an ex-investment banker from Deutsche Bank (a red flag in itself) with all the charisma of a Dalek. His main claim to be leader is, apparently, where he was brought up. Perhaps we could make his Mum and Dad leader instead.
Amber Rudd – has a tiny majority, a questionable City career behind her and was not well-served by her officials at the Home Office. But at least had the decency and balls to show up at debates. Has been rude about Boris Johnson. So there is that in favour of her.
Penny Mordaunt – lied during the referendum about Turkey’s accession. Can swim. And make speeches with double entendres in them. If the House of Commons ever needs a front of house manager for its gym, she’d be a shoo-in.
Jacob Rees-Mogg – Jesus wept.
Gavin Williamson – Embarrassed himself and the country by shouting “shut up” at Russia during the Skripal affair. Could we not give him some raffia baskets to play with instead?
Michael Gove – has a brain. But not as big a brain as he thinks he has. Utterly untrustworthy. Is apparently doing good work at Defra. He should stay there.
Boris Johnson – a serial liar. His only achievement as Foreign Secretary was to ensure that a British citizen locked up abroad in a country not known for its good treatment of women prisoners had her sentence lengthened.
David Davis – lazy, self-important and achieved nothing as Brexit Secretary. Has spent the rest of the time concocting a fairy story that if he had only been given power he could have achieved wondrous things. Everything he said about Brexit before he became Brexit secretary has turned out to be a lie or wrong.
Jeremy Hunt – gets confused about where his wife is from. Claimed that the EU was like the Soviet Union, his combination of offensiveness and historical inaccuracy doubtless an attempt to make people remember who he is.
Esther McVey – Managed to lose her seat in 2015. No other known achievements.
snip
All of which sound somewhat better than a Corbyn led rainbow coalition.
I can't be certain of that any more. They're as bad as each other. That's how damaged the Tory brand now is.
So realistically how many does she need to win this by in order to survive? 50+?
By 1. The old realities no longer exist.
John Major said he would have resigned if he'd got less than 65% support in 1995 vs John Redwood. That seems like a very high bar compared to today.
John Major was a "high bar" compared to today's political pygmies.
Really - hypocritical bonking grey man John led the party to one of their worst defeats in history
A defeat caused in part by some of the same Eurosceptic bottom-feeders who are now trying to bring Mrs May down.
Which he could have nipped in the bud by offering a referendum. But never mind that how about his record as chancellor when he imposed 15% interest rates so we could stay inside the ERM. That made the early nineties recession far worse for many than the 2008 crash. Bankruptcies and repossessions abounded, Were you there? I was and I can tell you in 1995 when I was standing as a young local candidate the visceral hatred of the Tories was something to behold. We lost 1000's of seats in places where we had never lost them before. It took 12 years to recover. Quite some record eh?
Yes - I was there on ERM day and, as I recall, the 15% lasted a day or so and was caused by trying to hedge against currency speculators. That was the day that the Bank of England learned that Soros et al had more clout than they did.
There was a visceral hatred of the Tories from the early 80s onward, especially after the Miner's Strike and Union legislation, but having a party divided against itself also added to the narrative that they were unelectable. After 1997 they really were unelectable and came out with stupid policies and leaders with zero appeal. Hague, IDS, Michael Howard... FFS!
Major was not much good, but he looks good by comparison with the current shower.
Major and May are the only Tory leaders since Thatcher to get over 40% at a general election, Major and Cameron the only Tory leaders since Thatcher to win an overall majority at a general election yes
My cat – conveniently at the vet today having an operation. Calm and affectionate. Comes from Birmingham and has fathered 4 kittens. So should sew up the Midlands family vote. No other achievements and knows nothing at all about Brexit (or anything else, for that matter, other than the most comfortable chairs and when dinner time is). But that, surely, should not be an insuperable objection?
My cat is dead, but it is still ahead of the other entrants (apart from your cat). I might have a stuffed toy animal somewhere from when the kids were young. It might have teeth marks or chewed ear, but it is still smarter than the whole ERG
The mug I'm drinking my tea from is smarter than the whole ERG.
I have 4 cats and a dog. So really between my animals and your stuffed toys we can provide pretty much the whole Cabinet.
Yes - I think we probably can.
Can I add 2 horses, 3 cats, 6 rabbits and 18 fish ?
Hooray! We have a thinking government at last!!
There is something floating in the kitchen sink. It could do DexEU...
Christ these remainers are absolute morons aren't they?
Are they ever going to stop throwing a tantrum over losing a democratic vote? It seems doubtful.
It's the kind of attitude that makes me certain that leave would win a second referendum. People don't like being told what to think at the best of times, let alone a second time, and they certainly don't like being told it by the intolerably smug. A second referendum wouldn't be about Brexit, it would be about a chance to stick two fingers up at the establishment. Again.
I think you will be disappointed by the lack of a "stick two fingers up at the establishment" option.
No-one will be stupid enough to have a second referendum William. They won't. Too hard. Not even a rigged one. It was done the minute the result came in, no matter how many grand plans it buggered up and how many powers and potentates were and are against it. There is no road back. You'd have been a lot happier over these past months had you accepted it.
Have you now accepted that your disgusting claim on here that Jo Cox's murder was a false flag operation was a horrific lie? Once you accept that, you can perhaps start lecturing others.
So realistically how many does she need to win this by in order to survive? 50+?
By 1. The old realities no longer exist.
John Major said he would have resigned if he'd got less than 65% support in 1995 vs John Redwood. That seems like a very high bar compared to today.
John Major was a "high bar" compared to today's political pygmies.
Really - hypocritical bonking grey man John led the party to one of their worst defeats in history
A defeat caused in part by some of the same Eurosceptic bottom-feeders who are now trying to bring Mrs May down.
Which he could have nipped in the bud by offering a referendum. But never mind that how about his record as chancellor when he imposed 15% interest rates so we could stay inside the ERM. That made the early nineties recession far worse for many than the 2008 crash. Bankruptcies and repossessions abounded, Were you there? I was and I can tell you in 1995 when I was standing as a young local candidate the visceral hatred of the Tories was something to behold. We lost 1000's of seats in places where we had never lost them before. It took 12 years to recover. Quite some record eh?
Major wasn't the chancellor who raised rates to 15%; that was Norman Lamont.
My cat – conveniently at the vet today having an operation. Calm and affectionate. Comes from Birmingham and has fathered 4 kittens. So should sew up the Midlands family vote. No other achievements and knows nothing at all about Brexit (or anything else, for that matter, other than the most comfortable chairs and when dinner time is). But that, surely, should not be an insuperable objection?
My cat is dead, but it is still ahead of the other entrants (apart from your cat). I might have a stuffed toy animal somewhere from when the kids were young. It might have teeth marks or chewed ear, but it is still smarter than the whole ERG
The mug I'm drinking my tea from is smarter than the whole ERG.
I have 4 cats and a dog. So really between my animals and your stuffed toys we can provide pretty much the whole Cabinet.
I have a goldfish. Can he (or she, I can't tell) have Liam Fox's job, please?
No, it's over-qualified. Foxs job should go to an amoeba.
Things are more dangerous because of this vote. If May wins tonight, she still needs to win the Commons vote on her deal. However, her party will be more polarised and her internal opponents wounded and ever more alienated. Her only move will be to tack towards Labour in some way. However, she seems incapable of doing that. N. Meanwhile all the ERG have to do is sit on their hands and wait it out. If nothing happens, they win.
Indeed. Her triumph will last until tomorrow when the EU summit tells her no further negotiation, no further compromise. At which point having hardened the opposition to her and her deal it WILL be demolished in the commons.
If she wanted to secure some concessions, it would have actually been better to have had the vote hanging over her than (as seems likely) in the bag and with her leadership secure. She could have raised the spectre of Boris unless they gave her some read meat.
Comments
https://twitter.com/ToryReformGroup/status/1072812320278134784
Her continued presence might even suit them. If she just sits like a lemon in Downing Street between now and March, running the clock down whilst Parliament can't agree what to do next, then the chance of a Hard Brexit steadily increases with each passing day. The DUP are a Leave-supporting party. I think they'd be content with that.
https://twitter.com/adamboultonSKY/status/1072832738753953797
They had a vote. They are no longer happy with the result. They want to vote again and hope for a different outcome.
These are facts.
I have 4 cats and a dog. So really between my animals and your stuffed toys we can provide pretty much the whole Cabinet.
The performance - indeed, the very presence - of Corbyn and his allies is, of course, the reason why we still have a Conservative minority Government. A Labour top team that (a) consisted of figures who were vaguely competent and (b) wasn't full of Irish Republican sympathisers could have won the backing of the DUP without too much difficulty.
Like comedy, with politics, timing is everything.
What the confidence motion will do is cement in place the defeat to come for her deal. Once that happens she will not be able to lead regardless of the rules of the Tory Party and her tenure will end. No government defeated on its key policy unable to negotiate a way forward either with the other side or its own MPs is able to remain functional as the government. Regardless of their views on the opposition.
YOU MUST BREXIT
May win 1.12
May lose 8.6
It was stupid, is stupid and will remain stupid, but it won the day.
And the country was lost as a result.
There was a visceral hatred of the Tories from the early 80s onward, especially after the Miner's Strike and Union legislation, but having a party divided against itself also added to the narrative that they were unelectable. After 1997 they really were unelectable and came out with stupid policies and leaders with zero appeal. Hague, IDS, Michael Howard... FFS!
Major was not much good, but he looks good by comparison with the current shower.
Occam's razor suggests the chaos around the MV was just chaos.
Emily Thornberry was asking about the Conservative propaganda outfit called IntegrityInitivative which has been given public money to attack the Labour party.
Edit: Not Brexit related...
https://mobile.twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/1072796129711046661
I am quite clear that nothing has changed.
My deal is the only deal.
I am getting on with the job of delivering Brexit.