politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If punters risking their cash have got this right TMay’s safe
Betfair and the other bookies were quick off the mark this morning getting markets up following news that tonight we will see a confidence vote amongst Conservative MPs on Theresa May.
However the vote goes tonight, it seems unlikely to improve the arithmetic with regards to her deal. The "prize" of winning the leadership challenge will be to have hardened the screaming anger of her backbenches determined not to vote for it or for her.
So forget the "she's safe for a year" bit - she won't be able to command the confidence of the House on this the only issue of import.
However the vote goes tonight, it seems unlikely to improve the arithmetic with regards to her deal. The "prize" of winning the leadership challenge will be to have hardened the screaming anger of her backbenches determined not to vote for it or for her.
So forget the "she's safe for a year" bit - she won't be able to command the confidence of the House on this the only issue of import.
Agreed. It makes it harder to shift her but numbers are numbers and if cannot act it doesn't matter.
However the vote goes tonight, it seems unlikely to improve the arithmetic with regards to her deal. The "prize" of winning the leadership challenge will be to have hardened the screaming anger of her backbenches determined not to vote for it or for her.
So forget the "she's safe for a year" bit - she won't be able to command the confidence of the House on this the only issue of import.
Agreed. It makes it harder to shift her but numbers are numbers and if cannot act it doesn't matter.
However the vote goes tonight, it seems unlikely to improve the arithmetic with regards to her deal. The "prize" of winning the leadership challenge will be to have hardened the screaming anger of her backbenches determined not to vote for it or for her.
So forget the "she's safe for a year" bit - she won't be able to command the confidence of the House on this the only issue of import.
I think this is the key point. We can speculate about what will happen if she loses, but what will happen if she survives? The parliamentary arithmetic remains the same either way.
How can Corbyn scream that she is acting contemptuously of the House and then NOT make a specific point about it? She's frit. He's frit. They're just talking at each other. Its pointless.
However the vote goes tonight, it seems unlikely to improve the arithmetic with regards to her deal. The "prize" of winning the leadership challenge will be to have hardened the screaming anger of her backbenches determined not to vote for it or for her.
So forget the "she's safe for a year" bit - she won't be able to command the confidence of the House on this the only issue of import.
I think this is the key point. We can speculate about what will happen if she loses, but what will happen if she survives? The parliamentary arithmetic remains the same either way.
I think she will have to offer / threaten the HoC a 2nd ref: back my deal or else we will defer A50 and take the decision to the country.
SPIN traitor market nudging up to 108. With the caveat that I'm not going to touch it, I'd guess 35%+ should be the midpoint. That's 110 if everyone votes, but ......
The unknown: will a substantial number refuse to vote for either? In 1995 Major beat Redwood 218-89, but there were 8 abstentions, 12 spoiled, 2 didn't vote.
If May wins I think the ERG will completely stuffed. May can come to parliament and offer a free vote, saying 'here is my deal, take it or leave it'. If the deal is rejected then a motion to revoke A50 can be put. If carried, BREXIT is over; if lost we leave with no deal. MPs need to stop going round in circles, wittering about a people's vote and instead recognise that there are only three choices. Put in that way I would expect revocation to prevail.
Not playing this market further, nor the SPIN traitor market.
I think she's going to lose but the fear of Gove, Boris, or an ERG wingnut taking over might just save her.
If she loses it's hard to see how the Tories avoid a split. The membership will go for an ERG candidate and this will drive out Europhile MPs. If the MPs don't give the membership the choice of an ERG candidate this will drive out a good number of members.
But even if she wins it will only be a short stay of execution, there will be a substantial number of votes against her - more than 100 I would say. I think she will try to carry on in those circumstances but her authority will be no more than that of the Downing Street cat, there is no way that she could push any withdrawal deal through the Commons.
However the vote goes tonight, it seems unlikely to improve the arithmetic with regards to her deal. The "prize" of winning the leadership challenge will be to have hardened the screaming anger of her backbenches determined not to vote for it or for her.
So forget the "she's safe for a year" bit - she won't be able to command the confidence of the House on this the only issue of import.
Agreed. It makes it harder to shift her but numbers are numbers and if cannot act it doesn't matter.
The only certainty is that christmas will be a blessed relief, and break, from the disaster.
Not if the disaster is on going. I won't be able to enjoy my roast lamb and Christmas pudding.
The I want to go back and enjoy my Christmas Pudding vibe might save May as well. Far better than spending the holiday fretting about leadership elections.
However the vote goes tonight, it seems unlikely to improve the arithmetic with regards to her deal. The "prize" of winning the leadership challenge will be to have hardened the screaming anger of her backbenches determined not to vote for it or for her.
So forget the "she's safe for a year" bit - she won't be able to command the confidence of the House on this the only issue of import.
I think this is the key point. We can speculate about what will happen if she loses, but what will happen if she survives? The parliamentary arithmetic remains the same either way.
Perhaps the swivel-eyed loons will withdraw themselves from the whip and leave her stranded. A sort of DUP++
Remember folks. Its in the best interests of the Labour Party that May wins with gaping political wounds in her side. Thats why Corbyn has allowed May to utterly humiliate him.
Mrs C, please clarify: do you consider loons to be the ones voting for May, or against her?
Mr. Pulpstar, nonsense. The Supreme Leader won an overwhelming victory, with 40 MPs bravely supporting his undoubted mastery of the party, and a paltry 170 or so lickspittle capitalist pigdogs opposing him for their own bourgeois reasons.
Remember folks. Its in the best interests of the Labour Party that May wins with gaping political wounds in her side. Thats why Corbyn has allowed May to utterly humiliate him.
Obviously.
Eight dimensional chess. Corbyn's a strategic genius.
Mrs C, please clarify: do you consider loons to be the ones voting for May, or against her?
Mr. Pulpstar, nonsense. The Supreme Leader won an overwhelming victory, with 40 MPs bravely supporting his undoubted mastery of the party, and a paltry 170 or so lickspittle capitalist pigdogs opposing him for their own bourgeois reasons.
I bet Sunil's got a graph for that one. (No Sunil, please, don't! It was a joke!)
Extended version: She doesn't answer the questions, sounds robotic, deflects from the topic by ranting on about Labour and looking back at the referendum.
She is truly hopeless and is unfit for high office.
Sajid Javid says a leadership contest will be seen as "self-indulgent and wrong". Not like his own leadership bid published in the Spectator shortly before Graham Brady's announcement then?
She isn't really. She's simply attacking Labour rather than answering key and important questions. She is doing it competently enough that it might swing a few more Tory MP votes her way.
I think she misjudged the mood of the house on the last question when she was trying to crack jokes at Corbyn's expense.
Tory backbenches seems silent. And unimpressed...
Confess, I am not listening but that bastion of the right-wing press the Gaurdian seems to agree with Big_G today:
"May says, whatever U-turn comes next in Labour’s policy, Corbyn will sent out his henchmen to reveal it to the world - the “inconstant gardner”. Someone will explain the joke to Corbyn later, she says.
She isn't really. She's simply attacking Labour rather than answering key and important questions. She is doing it competently enough that it might swing a few more Tory MP votes her way.
Corbyn isn't asking key questions. He is posturing, preening and ignoring the logical and political inconsistencies in his own position(s)
All he can do is jump on yet another outrage bus - he hasn't got a positive contribution to make.
Its increasingly difficult for Tory MPs to say that people can't change their mind on Brexit and have a vote when apparently its ok for those same Tory MPs to change their minds on the leadership and have a vote?
However the vote goes tonight, it seems unlikely to improve the arithmetic with regards to her deal. The "prize" of winning the leadership challenge will be to have hardened the screaming anger of her backbenches determined not to vote for it or for her.
So forget the "she's safe for a year" bit - she won't be able to command the confidence of the House on this the only issue of import.
I think this is the key point. We can speculate about what will happen if she loses, but what will happen if she survives? The parliamentary arithmetic remains the same either way.
Perhaps the swivel-eyed loons will withdraw themselves from the whip and leave her stranded. A sort of DUP++
This "swivel-eyed loons" nonsense being frothed at anyone that doesn't want to follow May's completely failed strategy has to stop.
Her crap deal can't get through parliament get over it.
Not sure if anyone has asked this yet but who holds the record for shortest term as PM? I am imagining a scenario where Boris wins the Tory leadership but then immediately loses a VONC in the House.
If May wins I think the ERG will completely stuffed. May can come to parliament and offer a free vote, saying 'here is my deal, take it or leave it'. If the deal is rejected then a motion to revoke A50 can be put. If carried, BREXIT is over; if lost we leave with no deal. MPs need to stop going round in circles, wittering about a people's vote and instead recognise that there are only three choices. Put in that way I would expect revocation to prevail.
If May could get Parliament to finally commit to some course of action then she would, arguably, have done the country a great service - even if said course of action is bound to be widely loathed in the country, because the country is so split. Though I would say that, because I'm hoping above all to avoid another referendum.
That said, there's absolutely nothing in her behaviour to date which suggests that she would commit to such a course of action. If she survives tonight's motion of confidence then she might just spend the whole period between now and March 29th offering nothing but her deal or no deal, and playing a game of chicken with the House of Commons over the choice.
Helpfully the Daily Mail has a list of possible Tory leader contenders. Let’s examine their records.
Dominic Raab – a man who, despite having a seat in the South East, was unaware of the importance of the Dover – Calais route to Britain’s trade
Andrea Leadsom – famous or, perhaps, infamous for having allowed a wholly exaggerated account of her work and pre-Parliamentary experience to be put about. In normal circles, such exaggerations are known as lies and would get you disciplined and/or sacked not promoted to the Cabinet, where she has shone at nothing.
Sajid Javid – an ex-investment banker from Deutsche Bank (a red flag in itself) with all the charisma of a Dalek. His main claim to be leader is, apparently, where he was brought up. Perhaps we could make his Mum and Dad leader instead.
Amber Rudd – has a tiny majority, a questionable City career behind her and was not well-served by her officials at the Home Office. But at least had the decency and balls to show up at debates. Has been rude about Boris Johnson. So there is that in favour of her.
Penny Mordaunt – lied during the referendum about Turkey’s accession. Can swim. And make speeches with double entendres in them. If the House of Commons ever needs a front of house manager for its gym, she’d be a shoo-in.
Jacob Rees-Mogg – Jesus wept.
Gavin Williamson – Embarrassed himself and the country by shouting “shut up” at Russia during the Skripal affair. Could we not give him some raffia baskets to play with instead?
Michael Gove – has a brain. But not as big a brain as he thinks he has. Utterly untrustworthy. Is apparently doing good work at Defra. He should stay there.
Boris Johnson – a serial liar. His only achievement as Foreign Secretary was to ensure that a British citizen locked up abroad in a country not known for its good treatment of women prisoners had her sentence lengthened.
David Davis – lazy, self-important and achieved nothing as Brexit Secretary. Has spent the rest of the time concocting a fairy story that if he had only been given power he could have achieved wondrous things. Everything he said about Brexit before he became Brexit secretary has turned out to be a lie or wrong.
Jeremy Hunt – gets confused about where his wife is from. Claimed that the EU was like the Soviet Union, his combination of offensiveness and historical inaccuracy doubtless an attempt to make people remember who he is.
Esther McVey – Managed to lose her seat in 2015. No other known achievements.
Oh – a late entrant.
My cat – conveniently at the vet today having an operation. Calm and affectionate. Comes from Birmingham and has fathered 4 kittens. So should sew up the Midlands family vote. No other achievements and knows nothing at all about Brexit (or anything else, for that matter, other than the most comfortable chairs and when dinner time is). But that, surely, should not be an insuperable objection?
Not sure if anyone has asked this yet but who holds the record for shortest term as PM? I am imagining a scenario where Boris wins the Tory leadership but then immediately loses a VONC in the House.
The 'inconstant Gardener' line is a good one - but one that won't reach beyond a very small bubble.
But she is being combative - which is what was needed today.
Shouty Corbyn doesn't have a plan - and being Shouty McShoutface won't hide that
I didn't understand the inconstant gardener gag – can someone explain it to me?
Le Carre, allotments, etc. I guess.
Yes, I know that Corbyn is a gardener (so what?), and that there is a Le Carre book called the Constant Gardener but what is the link? – I don't get it.
If May wins this, I think it could make it a lot easier to peel the DUP off to support a parliamentary VONC.
That want the deal gone, they (with a heavy heart) therefore need May gone. If the Tories remove one alleyway for removing May, the DUP would presumably more likely to support the other?
The 'inconstant Gardener' line is a good one - but one that won't reach beyond a very small bubble.
But she is being combative - which is what was needed today.
Shouty Corbyn doesn't have a plan - and being Shouty McShoutface won't hide that
I didn't understand the inconstant gardener gag – can someone explain it to me?
Le Carre, allotments, etc. I guess.
Yes, I know that Corbyn is a gardener (so what?), and that there is a Le Carre book called the Constant Gardener but what is the link? – I don't get it.
If May wins I think the ERG will completely stuffed. May can come to parliament and offer a free vote, saying 'here is my deal, take it or leave it'. If the deal is rejected then a motion to revoke A50 can be put. If carried, BREXIT is over; if lost we leave with no deal. MPs need to stop going round in circles, wittering about a people's vote and instead recognise that there are only three choices. Put in that way I would expect revocation to prevail.
If May could get Parliament to finally commit to some course of action then she would, arguably, have done the country a great service - even if said course of action is bound to be widely loathed in the country, because the country is so split. Though I would say that, because I'm hoping above all to avoid another referendum.
That said, there's absolutely nothing in her behaviour to date which suggests that she would commit to such a course of action. If she survives tonight's motion of confidence then she might just spend the whole period between now and March 29th offering nothing but her deal or no deal, and playing a game of chicken with the House of Commons over the choice.
Not sure if anyone has asked this yet but who holds the record for shortest term as PM? I am imagining a scenario where Boris wins the Tory leadership but then immediately loses a VONC in the House.
George Canning, 119 days.
Cheers. I could see that record being smashed if May loses today.
Not sure if anyone has asked this yet but who holds the record for shortest term as PM? I am imagining a scenario where Boris wins the Tory leadership but then immediately loses a VONC in the House.
George Canning, 119 days.
Though to be fair, he died in office, rather than being deposed. Goderich who succeeded him had to resign after 144 days.
Boris would command the confidence of the house if he gets through to the final two I think. I simply don't think there are 7 MPs prepared to vote Corbyn in.
May has just reached the 158 MPs she needs to stay Tory leader and win the VONC according to BBC news research of public declarations of support with 33 Tory MPs declaring they will vote against her.
Though of course in the privacy of the ballot booth nothing is guaranteed
Sajid Javid says a leadership contest will be seen as "self-indulgent and wrong". Not like his own leadership bid published in the Spectator shortly before Graham Brady's announcement then?
Totally different. For reasons.
Of course he might be be truthful - he would no doubt prefer he be made leader uncontested
The 'inconstant Gardener' line is a good one - but one that won't reach beyond a very small bubble.
But she is being combative - which is what was needed today.
Shouty Corbyn doesn't have a plan - and being Shouty McShoutface won't hide that
I didn't understand the inconstant gardener gag – can someone explain it to me?
Le Carre, allotments, etc. I guess.
Yes, I know that Corbyn is a gardener (so what?), and that there is a Le Carre book called the Constant Gardener but what is the link? – I don't get it.
Barry Gardiner...
Er what? A pun on Gardiner's name? Dear me, who writes this garbage?
Comments
I think she's going to lose but the fear of Gove, Boris, or an ERG wingnut taking over might just save her.
So forget the "she's safe for a year" bit - she won't be able to command the confidence of the House on this the only issue of import.
The question is - are there 158 loons in the Tory party? Today's the day we find out.
The unknown: will a substantial number refuse to vote for either? In 1995 Major beat Redwood 218-89, but there were 8 abstentions, 12 spoiled, 2 didn't vote.
But even if she wins it will only be a short stay of execution, there will be a substantial number of votes against her - more than 100 I would say. I think she will try to carry on in those circumstances but her authority will be no more than that of the Downing Street cat, there is no way that she could push any withdrawal deal through the Commons.
Obviously.
My book: i'm on *May to lose confidence vote* for decent stakes at 3/1, 4/1 & 5/1
Mr. Pulpstar, nonsense. The Supreme Leader won an overwhelming victory, with 40 MPs bravely supporting his undoubted mastery of the party, and a paltry 170 or so lickspittle capitalist pigdogs opposing him for their own bourgeois reasons.
But she is being combative - which is what was needed today.
Shouty Corbyn doesn't have a plan - and being Shouty McShoutface won't hide that
Tory backbenches seemed silent. And unimpressed...
She is truly hopeless and is unfit for high office.
"May says, whatever U-turn comes next in Labour’s policy, Corbyn will sent out his henchmen to reveal it to the world - the “inconstant gardner”. Someone will explain the joke to Corbyn later, she says.
Tories cheer loudly."
A giant compared to the pond scum that represents the Tory Party factions today
All he can do is jump on yet another outrage bus - he hasn't got a positive contribution to make.
Sunil!!!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46209535
Her crap deal can't get through parliament get over it.
That said, there's absolutely nothing in her behaviour to date which suggests that she would commit to such a course of action. If she survives tonight's motion of confidence then she might just spend the whole period between now and March 29th offering nothing but her deal or no deal, and playing a game of chicken with the House of Commons over the choice.
Inconsistent Labour MP: Barry Gardiner.
Oh my sides, etc, etc.
47.999999999999... = 48
Dominic Raab – a man who, despite having a seat in the South East, was unaware of the importance of the Dover – Calais route to Britain’s trade
Andrea Leadsom – famous or, perhaps, infamous for having allowed a wholly exaggerated account of her work and pre-Parliamentary experience to be put about. In normal circles, such exaggerations are known as lies and would get you disciplined and/or sacked not promoted to the Cabinet, where she has shone at nothing.
Sajid Javid – an ex-investment banker from Deutsche Bank (a red flag in itself) with all the charisma of a Dalek. His main claim to be leader is, apparently, where he was brought up. Perhaps we could make his Mum and Dad leader instead.
Amber Rudd – has a tiny majority, a questionable City career behind her and was not well-served by her officials at the Home Office. But at least had the decency and balls to show up at debates. Has been rude about Boris Johnson. So there is that in favour of her.
Penny Mordaunt – lied during the referendum about Turkey’s accession. Can swim. And make speeches with double entendres in them. If the House of Commons ever needs a front of house manager for its gym, she’d be a shoo-in.
Jacob Rees-Mogg – Jesus wept.
Gavin Williamson – Embarrassed himself and the country by shouting “shut up” at Russia during the Skripal affair. Could we not give him some raffia baskets to play with instead?
Michael Gove – has a brain. But not as big a brain as he thinks he has. Utterly untrustworthy. Is apparently doing good work at Defra. He should stay there.
Boris Johnson – a serial liar. His only achievement as Foreign Secretary was to ensure that a British citizen locked up abroad in a country not known for its good treatment of women prisoners had her sentence lengthened.
David Davis – lazy, self-important and achieved nothing as Brexit Secretary. Has spent the rest of the time concocting a fairy story that if he had only been given power he could have achieved wondrous things. Everything he said about Brexit before he became Brexit secretary has turned out to be a lie or wrong.
Jeremy Hunt – gets confused about where his wife is from. Claimed that the EU was like the Soviet Union, his combination of offensiveness and historical inaccuracy doubtless an attempt to make people remember who he is.
Esther McVey – Managed to lose her seat in 2015. No other known achievements.
Oh – a late entrant.
My cat – conveniently at the vet today having an operation. Calm and affectionate. Comes from Birmingham and has fathered 4 kittens. So should sew up the Midlands family vote. No other achievements and knows nothing at all about Brexit (or anything else, for that matter, other than the most comfortable chairs and when dinner time is). But that, surely, should not be an insuperable objection?
That ones for MD.
He's obviously not a Le Carre fan - the wrong side tends to win in his novels!
A modest man with much to be modest about.
That want the deal gone, they (with a heavy heart) therefore need May gone. If the Tories remove one alleyway for removing May, the DUP would presumably more likely to support the other?
We voted to take back control, not to have an unelected Prime Minister.
https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/crime/peterborough-mp-fiona-onasanya-lied-persistently-and-deliberately-court-told-1-8737332
Though of course in the privacy of the ballot booth nothing is guaranteed
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46535739
Of course he might be be truthful - he would no doubt prefer he be made leader uncontested
Legend.
Are they ever going to stop throwing a tantrum over losing a democratic vote? It seems doubtful.