This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
Alfred Lewis said nine meals from anarchy. That was in 1906. Three meals from revolution has been attributed to Alexandre Dumas before him and Leon Trotsky after him, although I've not see chapter and verse for either.
Research has been done on the social and political effects of famine. As body weight falls, combativeness and sociality first rise and then they fall drastically and even natural ties between parents and children weaken.
People in Britain have no idea about famine whatsoever. Russia, yes. Ukraine, the Netherlands, Greece, yes. In Britain the xenophobic archetype of the Bogeyman Other is far stronger than the archetype of the empty belly. If there's another referendum, Leave will win. It will be interesting to find out whether Dominic Cummings (about whom I concur with David Cameron's assessment) updates his prediction that Leave will break 60%.
A shortage of fresh tomatoes is not an existential famine. Get a grip!
It is utterly unbelievable that 3 months away from Brexit the Tory Party (or at least a sizeable chunk of the parliamentary party) thinks it’d be a good idea to have a protracted leadership election.
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No less, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
This is getting silly.
No. Wh Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
cyclefree I normally agree with you, but No, this Will Not Do. 17.4m people voted to Leave, so we must Leave. Unfortunately, the traitorous europhile c*nts who run the country made this very very difficult, by signing us up to the ridiculous Article 50, without our consent (even though they had promised us a referendum where we could say No to Article 50, a referendum they then denied).
So we have to Leave under the protocols of A50. These protocols make Leaving a stupidly painful thing to do: it is expressly designed that way (by a Brit, who should be in prison for treachery).
Nonetheless we Leave. It will hurt. But by Leaving we show that we are still a democracy (unlike the rest of the EU). It is an EXAMPLE of British fair play and freedom, not some national humiliation and crisis. It is a Just War.
Blood will be spilled, but we are doing the Right Thing. Get a grip. Remember you are British.
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No less, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
This is getting silly.
No. Wh Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
cyclefree I normally agree with you, but No, this Will Not Do. 17.4m people voted to Leave, so we must Leave. Unfortunately, the traitorous europhile c*nts who run the country made this very very difficult, by signing us up to the ridiculous Article 50, without our consent (even though they had promised us a referendum where we could say No to Article 50, a referendum they then denied).
So we have to Leave under the protocols of A50. These protocols make Leaving a stupidly painful thing to do: it is expressly designed that way (by a Brit, who should be in prison for treachery).
Nonetheless we Leave. It will hurt. But by Leaving we show that we are still a democracy (unlike the rest of the EU). It is an EXAMPLE of British fair play and freedom, not some national humiliation and crisis. It is a Just War.
Blood will be spilled, but we are doing the Right Thing. Get a grip. Remember you are British.
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
This is getting silly.
No. What is getting silly is people like you and apparently the Tory party not understanding that businesses have planned on the basis that there would be a transition agreement. If there isn't one, we don't revert to some nirvana where everything works perfectly. We revert to, well, what? Who knows? Uncertainties, delays, trying to cobble together mini-agreements at the last minute in the worst possible circumstances, all the factors which will make economic difficulties worse and which will likely to persuade businesses that it may no longer be worth the effort remaining in Britain. No access to EU markets on the same basis as now. Economic uncertainty. Delays. Extra costs. The likelihood of a Corbyn government. Political and economic risk, in short.
Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
I'm sorry, I have immense respect for you a poster, but this is a long post saying remarkably little. You even repeat words like they're some sort of odd mantra. Of course there will be some disruption, much of which can be predicted and minimised, some of which no doubt can't. Sorry if I can't get on board with your hysteria.
I really want May’s deal or something like it but if we don’t get it I will vote for no deal as many times as I can.
No times then.
A second referendum looks nailed on to me now.
And how's that going to happen? (I assume you don't mean that people are going round nailing referendums on to you, and that you've two so far).
Parliament will find a way. Over 500 of them were elected on the basis they would implement the previous vote but they are liars. There is a large majority for remain but even they would be too ashamed to reverse their position without a referendum to hide behind.
More to the point, with hindsight it is obvious that there should have been some majority or turnout threshold for the referendum before we make such a significant and dramatic change to our country's future. In the absence of such (and it is now too late), asking voters to confirm their intentions again before passing the point of no return is both reasonable and justifiable.
We had a turnout of over 33m. How many more did you want?
At least half of the electorate voting for a radical change would have been an obvious one.
So once we've left and the inevitable Rejoin referendum is called, you'll be happy with it requiring an absolute majority of the registered electorate (which doesn't even allow for those legitimately registered twice).
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
Alfred Lewis said nine meals from anarchy. That was in 1906. Three meals from revolution has been attributed to Alexandre Dumas before him and Leon Trotsky after him, although I've not see chapter and verse for either.
Research has been done on the social and political effects of famine. As body weight falls, combativeness and sociality first rise and then they fall drastically and even natural ties between parents and children weaken.
People in Britain have no idea about famine whatsoever. Russia, yes. Ukraine, the Netherlands, Greece, yes. In Britain the xenophobic archetype of the Bogeyman Other is far stronger than the archetype of the empty belly. If there's another referendum, Leave will win. It will be interesting to find out whether Dominic Cummings (about whom I concur with David Cameron's assessment) updates his prediction that Leave will break 60%.
A shortage of fresh tomatoes is not an existential famine. Get a grip!
Sure, but I'm talking about famine. In 1964 there were fears in Leningrad that war was about to break out with the US. All food - and I mean all - disappeared from shop shelves within hours.
One missing is some crazy line function fit with comment, fitted by DNN, no I don't know why / how either, but it can turn pictures of horses into a zebras.
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
This is getting silly.
No. What is getting silly is people like you and apparently the Tory party not understanding that businesses have planned on the basis that there would be a transition agreement. If there isn't one, we don't revert to some nirvana where everything works perfectly. We revert to, well, what? Who knows? Uncertainties, delays, trying to cobble together mini-agreements at the last minute in the worst possible circumstances, all the factors which will make economic difficulties worse and which will likely to persuade businesses that it may no longer be worth the effort remaining in Britain. No access to EU markets on the same basis as now. Economic uncertainty. Delays. Extra costs. The likelihood of a Corbyn government. Political and economic risk, in short.
Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
I'm sorry, I have immense respect for you a poster, but this is a long post saying remarkably little. You even repeat words like they're some sort of odd mantra. Of course there will be some disruption, much of which can be predicted and minimised, some of which no doubt can't. Sorry if I can't get on board with your hysteria.
Reminder: if a majority of all MPs want to foil Brexit then it is entirely within their power to do so - if they work together across party lines. If they genuinely mean it when they fret about Brexit (especially the No Deal flavour) being a disaster then they ought to just stop it.
If they don't get what they want, they only have themselves to blame.
It is utterly unbelievable that 3 months away from Brexit the Tory Party (or at least a sizeable chunk of the parliamentary party) thinks it’d be a good idea to have a protracted leadership election.
Ye gods, they have totally lost the plot.
It won't be protracted, it'll be a coronation again, or near as dammit.
It is utterly unbelievable that 3 months away from Brexit the Tory Party (or at least a sizeable chunk of the parliamentary party) thinks it’d be a good idea to have a protracted leadership election.
Ye gods, they have totally lost the plot.
It won't be protracted, it'll be a coronation again, or near as dammit.
It had better be, the country does not have time for this crap.
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
Alfred Lewis said nine meals from anarchy. That was in 1906. Three meals from revolution has been attributed to Alexandre Dumas before him and Leon Trotsky after him, although I've not see chapter and verse for either.
Research has been done on the social and political effects of famine. As body weight falls, combativeness and sociality first rise and then they fall drastically and even natural ties between parents and children weaken.
People in Britain have no idea about famine whatsoever. Russia, yes. Ukraine, the Netherlands, Greece, yes. In Britain the xenophobic archetype of the Bogeyman Other is far stronger than the archetype of the empty belly. If there's another referendum, Leave will win. It will be interesting to find out whether Dominic Cummings (about whom I concur with David Cameron's assessment) updates his prediction that Leave will break 60%.
A shortage of fresh tomatoes is not an existential famine. Get a grip!
Sure, but I'm talking about famine. In 1964 there were fears in Leningrad that war was about to break out with the US. All food - and I mean all - disappeared from shop shelves within hours.
1964 Russia?
LOL - that sounds more like the norm in those days.
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
This is getting silly.
No. What is getting silly is people like you and apparently the Tory party not understanding that businesses have planned on the basis that there would be a transition agreement. If there isn't one, we don't revert to some nirvana where everything works perfectly. We revert to, well, what? Who knows? Uncertainties, delays, trying to cobble together mini-agreements at the last minute in the worst possible circumstances, all the factors which will make economic difficulties worse and which will likely to persuade businesses that it may no longer be worth the effort remaining in Britain. No access to EU markets on the same basis as now. Economic uncertainty. Delays. Extra costs. The likelihood of a Corbyn government. Political and economic risk, in short.
Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
I'm sorry, I have immense respect for you a poster, but this is a long post saying remarkably little. You even repeat words like they're some sort of odd mantra. Of course there will be some disruption, much of which can be predicted and minimised, some of which no doubt can't. Sorry if I can't get on board with your hysteria.
It is utterly unbelievable that 3 months away from Brexit the Tory Party (or at least a sizeable chunk of the parliamentary party) thinks it’d be a good idea to have a protracted leadership election.
Ye gods, they have totally lost the plot.
It won't be protracted, it'll be a coronation again, or near as dammit.
Yep.
How can it be a coronation? As long as the ERG can muster enough nominations they will not tolerate another remainer and vice versa.
No. Wh Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
cyclefree I normally agree with you, but No, this Will Not Do. 17.4m people voted to Leave, so we must Leave. Unfortunately, the traitorous europhile c*nts who run the country made this very very difficult, by signing us up to the ridiculous Article 50, without our consent (even though they had promised us a referendum where we could say No to Article 50, a referendum they then denied).
So we have to Leave under the protocols of A50. These protocols make Leaving a stupidly painful thing to do: it is expressly designed that way (by a Brit, who should be in prison for treachery).
Nonetheless we Leave. It will hurt. But by Leaving we show that we are still a democracy (unlike the rest of the EU). It is an EXAMPLE of British fair play and freedom, not some national humiliation and crisis. It is a Just War.
Blood will be spilled, but we are doing the Right Thing. Get a grip. Remember you are British.
Sure. Leave with a deal.
But leaving without a deal? No.
And if the 17.4 million who voted for Leave is such a totemic issue, ask people again if they do really want to leave without a deal?
The reason people who place such importance on one vote don't want to have another is because they are worried that people might have changed their mind, might have realised that the promises made were castles in the air, might have realised that the Brexiteers are full of piss and wind. If they were so certain that people would be happy to take a leap into the unknown they'd be rushing to get confirmation.
There is nothing British about taking unnecessary risks with peoples lives and futures and our reputation as a country because MPs are too thick to understand the deal which has been agreed or have some other psychological condition that requires them to behave like prats.
It is utterly unbelievable that 3 months away from Brexit the Tory Party (or at least a sizeable chunk of the parliamentary party) thinks it’d be a good idea to have a protracted leadership election.
Ye gods, they have totally lost the plot.
It won't be protracted, it'll be a coronation again, or near as dammit.
It had better be, the country does not have time for this crap.
Mrs May tried the Bored of Brexit angle, and look where it got her.
It is utterly unbelievable that 3 months away from Brexit the Tory Party (or at least a sizeable chunk of the parliamentary party) thinks it’d be a good idea to have a protracted leadership election.
Ye gods, they have totally lost the plot.
It won't be protracted, it'll be a coronation again, or near as dammit.
Yep.
How can it be a coronation? As long as the ERG can muster enough nominations they will not tolerate another remainer and vice versa.
*If* the ERG push it to a vote, and I'm not sure they will, as it will only demonstrate their lack of support.
The parliamentary party have more than enough votes to keep the ERG from the final two, then the one with the fewer votes withdraws and supports the one with more.
It is utterly unbelievable that 3 months away from Brexit the Tory Party (or at least a sizeable chunk of the parliamentary party) thinks it’d be a good idea to have a protracted leadership election.
Ye gods, they have totally lost the plot.
It won't be protracted, it'll be a coronation again, or near as dammit.
It had better be, the country does not have time for this crap.
Mrs May tried the Bored of Brexit angle, and look where it got her.
We're not bored of it, we need them to be the opposite of bored - pissing about with internal squabbles rather than focusing on the ticking clock, is a distraction.
It is utterly unbelievable that 3 months away from Brexit the Tory Party (or at least a sizeable chunk of the parliamentary party) thinks it’d be a good idea to have a protracted leadership election.
Ye gods, they have totally lost the plot.
It will not be protracted.
I give her credit she has given it her best shot.
Reality is though she is a disaster as a PM.
We need someone who can make sound decisions and act on them.
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
This is getting silly.
Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
I'm sorry, I have immense respect for you a poster, but this is a long post saying remarkably little. You even repeat words like they're some sort of odd mantra. Of course there will be some disruption, much of which can be predicted and minimised, some of which no doubt can't. Sorry if I can't get on board with your hysteria.
It is utterly unbelievable that 3 months away from Brexit the Tory Party (or at least a sizeable chunk of the parliamentary party) thinks it’d be a good idea to have a protracted leadership election.
Ye gods, they have totally lost the plot.
It won't be protracted, it'll be a coronation again, or near as dammit.
It had better be, the country does not have time for this crap.
Mrs May tried the Bored of Brexit angle, and look where it got her.
We're not bored of it, we need them to be the opposite of bored - pissing about with internal squabbles rather than focusing on the ticking clock, is a distraction.
But this is about Brexit. Everything is about Brexit. Specifically, this is about May having lost the trust of both leavers and remainers.
It is utterly unbelievable that 3 months away from Brexit the Tory Party (or at least a sizeable chunk of the parliamentary party) thinks it’d be a good idea to have a protracted leadership election.
Ye gods, they have totally lost the plot.
It won't be protracted, it'll be a coronation again, or near as dammit.
Yep.
How can it be a coronation? As long as the ERG can muster enough nominations they will not tolerate another remainer and vice versa.
Have to agree. If it is a coronation, it would have to be time -limited. The Tory Party needs to decide what it is for. One side or other needs to win. Not my problem, however.
Can you get odds for the next by-election being at Windsor and Maidenhead?
As I've said before I don't think she'll stand down in Maidenhead as she hasn't got much hinterland outside politics. I think she'll try and hang around and get a comeback as an elder stateswoman to a future leader of the opposition (a la Hague)
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
This is getting silly.
No. What is getting silly is people like you and apparently the Tory party not understanding that businesses have planned on the basis that there would be a transition agreement. If there isn't one, we don't revert to some nirvana where everything works perfectly. We revert to, well, what? Who knows? Uncertainties, delays, trying to cobble together mini-agreements at the last minute in the worst possible circumstances, all the factors which will make economic difficulties worse and which will likely to persuade businesses that it may no longer be worth the effort remaining in Britain. No access to EU markets on the same basis as now. Economic uncertainty. Delays. Extra costs. The likelihood of a Corbyn government. Political and economic risk, in short.
Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty.
I'm sorry, I have immense respect for you a poster, but this is a long post saying remarkably little. You even repeat words like they're some sort of odd mantra. Of course there will be some disruption, much of which can be predicted and minimised, some of which no doubt can't. Sorry if I can't get on board with your hysteria.
What is the process for the UK to agree the deal. Does the EU need a "UK Parliament Approved" stamp?
I mean, could May just agree it with them. How much more chaotic could it be? Bollocks to extending A50 unilaterally, go the whole hog and sign the deal herself.
Maybe Her Maj could do the decent thing and step in and sign it?
To be fair, I think if HMQ did sign it, without approval from Parliament, I reckon she and she alone could get away with it. Just give them the icy stare and everyone would just mutter and go away.
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
This is getting silly.
No. What is getting silly is people like you and apparently the Tory party not understanding that businesses have planned on the basis that there would be a transition agreement. If there isn't one, we don't revert to some nirvana where everything works perfectly. We revert to, well, what? Who knows? Uncertainties, delays, trying to cobble together mini-agreements at the last minute in the worst possible circumstances, all the factors which will make economic difficulties worse and which will likely to persuade businesses that it may no longer be worth the effort remaining in Britain. No access to EU markets on the same basis as now. Economic uncertainty. Delays. Extra costs. The likelihood of a Corbyn government. Political and economic risk, in short.
Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
Lucky Guy is a rightwing crank. He considers Jo Cox’s murder to be a false flag. Attempts to rationalise with him are simply a way of wasting time until you retire.
I think May will still win a confidence vote. Tory remainers don't yet have a better option lined up, and have generally been more skittish about rebellions than the ERGers so far.
If she does win, there is perhaps one roll of the dice she can take to try and get her deal approved - call another election with her deal in the manifesto. Think it would actually be her best chance - Labour are not exactly soaring right now, she could potentially still beat Corbyn in an election.
No. What is getting silly is people like you and apparently the Tory party not understanding that businesses have planned on the basis that there would be a transition agreement. If there isn't one, we don't revert to some nirvana where everything works perfectly. We revert to, well, what? Who knows? Uncertainties, delays, trying to cobble together mini-agreements at the last minute in the worst possible circumstances, all the factors which will make economic difficulties worse and which will likely to persuade businesses that it may no longer be worth the effort remaining in Britain. No access to EU markets on the same basis as now. Economic uncertainty. Delays. Extra costs. The likelihood of a Corbyn government. Political and economic risk, in short.
Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
I'm sorry, I have immense respect for you a poster, but this is a long post saying remarkably little. You even repeat words like they're some sort of odd mantra. Of course there will be some disruption, much of which can be predicted and minimised, some of which no doubt can't. Sorry if I can't get on board with your hysteria.
It's not hysteria to point out that Britain is busily trashing its reputation and this will have a cost which will be borne by those least able to to bear it.
I don't much care if we leave with a deal or Remain.
But to leave with no transition deal with little or no preparation is a risk too far. I am not hysterical about it. What I am is absolutely bloody furious with the nincompoops in Parliament who are pushing us into it out of stupidity and malice and personal ambition and ignorance and with scarcely a care for those they are meant to represent or those who will be affected.
It takes years to build a reputation and 20 seconds to lose it. MPs are giving us a masterclass in this. I don't give a toss about the Tories or Labour. They both deserve to die as parties. But I don't want them bringing the rest of us down with them.
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
This is getting silly.
No. What is getting silly is people like you and apparently the Tory party not understanding that businesses have planned on the basis that there would be a transition agreement. If there isn't one, we don't revert to some nirvana where everything works perfectly. We revert to, well, what? Who knows? Uncertainties, delays, trying to cobble together mini-agreements at the last minute in the worst possible circumstances, all the factors which will make economic difficulties worse and which will likely to persuade businesses that it may no longer be worth the effort remaining in Britain. No access to EU markets on the same basis as now. Economic uncertainty. Delays. Extra costs. The likelihood of a Corbyn government. Political and economic risk, in short.
Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
Well said Cyclefree - absolutely correct!!
Cyclefree is generally an insightful sensible poster.
But the last few days we have seen a different poster
There is a lot to disagree with in her post above.
But I will just hi light one point for now.
About planning or lack of it for no deal.
My industry has been working on the assumption of no deal for a long time now.
No. Wh Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
cyclefree I normally agree with you, but No, this Will Not Do. 17.4m people voted to Leave, so we mu Blood will be spilled, but we are doing the Right Thing. Get a grip. Remember you are British.
Sure. Leave with a deal.
But leaving without a deal? No.
And if the 17.4 million who voted for Leave is such a totemic issue, ask people again if they do really want to leave without a deal?
The reason people who place such importance on one vote don't want to have another is because they are worried that people might have changed their mind, might have realised that the promises made were castles in the air, might have realised that the Brexiteers are full of piss and wind. If they were so certain that people would be happy to take a leap into the unknown they'd be rushing to get confirmation.
There is nothing British about taking unnecessary risks with peoples lives and futures and our reputation as a country because MPs are too thick to understand the deal which has been agreed or have some other psychological condition that requires them to behave like prats.
Yawn. Whatever. As I recall you were a Leaver, if you didn't realise Leaving would be deeply painful (I did), then I suggest it is you who is delusional and silly.
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
This is getting silly.
No. What is getting silly is people like you and apparently the Tory party not understanding that businesses have planned on the basis that there would be a transition agreement. If there isn't one, we don't revert to some nirvana where everything works perfectly. We revert to, well, what? Who knows? Uncertainties, delays, trying to cobble together mini-agreements at the last minute in the worst possible circumstances, all the factors which will make economic difficulties worse and which will likely to persuade businesses that it may no longer be worth the effort remaining in Britain. No access to EU markets on the same basis as now. Economic uncertainty. Delays. Extra costs. The likelihood of a Corbyn government. Political and economic risk, in short.
Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty. The rule of law. Sensible, pragmatic governments. Governments you could generally trust. A country open for business and welcoming to those who want to do well. Britain's offering to the world. All seriously trashed or damaged by idiots - and for what? Because they didn't like their leader or the fact that their former colony did not do what it was told by Britain or because they were too bloody thick to understand the difference between a transition agreement and a final deal or the necessity for a guarantee.
Lucky Guy is a rightwing crank. He considers Jo Cox’s murder to be a false flag. Attempts to rationalise with him are simply a way of wasting time until you retire.
Thanks for the commentary. Thankfully for all of us, most on PB are capable of engaging in debate on the basis of the content of posts rather than a vignette of the poster provided by a third party. I wonder what we would summarise you as if anyone gave enough of a crap to make the attempt.
This is Jeremy’s dream come true. A totally Tory-owned no deal.
Unless No Deal turns out to be like Project Fear 1.0, and comparatively painless - which is perfectly possible (no one knows)
Let's say it's a few days of chaos, traffic jams, shortages, but then lots of small ad hoc deals are done, and things calm down. I can this happening quite easily: after all it is in no one's interest, not the EU's, or ours, or Ireland's, for trade chaos to continue. What then?
If a Tory No Deal proves to be RELATIVELY painless, then suddenly everything changes, completely.
Was it Lenin or Marx who said "No place is more than 3 meals away from revolution"? A few days may be too long...
This is getting silly.
No. What is getting silly is people like you and apparently the Tory party not understanding that businesses have planned on the basis that there would be a transition agreement. If there isn't one, we don't revert to some nirvana where everything works perfectly. We revert to, well, what? Who knows? Uncertainties, delays, trying to cobble together mini-agreements at the last minute in the worst possible circumstances, all the factors which will make economic difficulties worse and which will likely to persuade businesses that it may no longer be worth the effort remaining in Britain. No access to EU markets on the same basis as now. Economic uncertainty. Delays. Extra costs. The likelihood of a Corbyn government. Political and economic risk, in short.
Meanwhile other countries in the EU will be falling over themselves to offer a home to such businesses and their staff.
Stability. Certainty.
I'm sorry, I have immense respect for you a poster, but this is a long post saying remarkably little. You even repeat words like they're some sort of odd mantra. Of course there will be some disruption, much of which can be predicted and minimised, some of which no doubt can't. Sorry if I can't get on board with your hysteria.
What do you do for work out of interest?
Drinks multinational.
Specializing in vodka and cathedral tours?
The first, certainly, amongst a wide range. The second, you've lost me.
Comments
Clearly, it is you who must get a grip, Sean.
One missing is some crazy line function fit with comment, fitted by DNN, no I don't know why / how either, but it can turn pictures of horses into a zebras.
other than Merseyside.
If they don't get what they want, they only have themselves to blame.
LOL - that sounds more like the norm in those days.
Hmmmmmm.
But leaving without a deal? No.
And if the 17.4 million who voted for Leave is such a totemic issue, ask people again if they do really want to leave without a deal?
The reason people who place such importance on one vote don't want to have another is because they are worried that people might have changed their mind, might have realised that the promises made were castles in the air, might have realised that the Brexiteers are full of piss and wind. If they were so certain that people would be happy to take a leap into the unknown they'd be rushing to get confirmation.
There is nothing British about taking unnecessary risks with peoples lives and futures and our reputation as a country because MPs are too thick to understand the deal which has been agreed or have some other psychological condition that requires them to behave like prats.
I am ready to serve my country in the upcoming EU wars. I shall pull my father's musket from the thatch.
Lol. You are a good europhile boy, just like all the rest of us in north London, as you will soon surely recognise.
The parliamentary party have more than enough votes to keep the ERG from the final two, then the one with the fewer votes withdraws and supports the one with more.
I give her credit she has given it her best shot.
Reality is though she is a disaster as a PM.
We need someone who can make sound decisions and act on them.
Laura K tweeted earlier that Brady has asked to see May after PMQs.
But she did not say the above in her BBC1 10pm News report.
OK to be wrong on twitter, but not on BBC1.
NEW Thread
Not my problem, however.
So done deal then.
If she does win, there is perhaps one roll of the dice she can take to try and get her deal approved - call another election with her deal in the manifesto. Think it would actually be her best chance - Labour are not exactly soaring right now, she could potentially still beat Corbyn in an election.
I don't much care if we leave with a deal or Remain.
But to leave with no transition deal with little or no preparation is a risk too far. I am not hysterical about it. What I am is absolutely bloody furious with the nincompoops in Parliament who are pushing us into it out of stupidity and malice and personal ambition and ignorance and with scarcely a care for those they are meant to represent or those who will be affected.
It takes years to build a reputation and 20 seconds to lose it. MPs are giving us a masterclass in this. I don't give a toss about the Tories or Labour. They both deserve to die as parties. But I don't want them bringing the rest of us down with them.
But the last few days we have seen a different poster
There is a lot to disagree with in her post above.
But I will just hi light one point for now.
About planning or lack of it for no deal.
My industry has been working on the assumption of no deal for a long time now.
We will hardly have been alone.