Can you define smearer? Is that anyone who doesn’t criticise Corbyn? What exactly is a correct amount of criticism before it becomes a smear? Is it still a smear if you are point8ng out a fact?
I can't see us rejoining because we'd need to have another referendum and I think the entire country would puke a lung at the thought of that. As we have painfully discovered (first in Scotland, now in the entire UK) referendums on these questions are hideously divisive. We are bored of being divided.
So I don't think we will be trying to formally rejoin for a generation or more. Maybe never.
What I CAN see happening, very easily, is a Labour government quietly taking us straight back into the SM and CU, & accepting FoM, in return for payments and a say in some of the lawmaking. It would be a special associate membership, which they won't call membership - coz that would need a referendum.
Before Labour can rejoin the SM and CU we have to have left it, and on the present course that will be 2021 at the earliest and has every chance of being pushed back or never happening.
The divisiveness of referendums is a reason why an unexpected landslide for Remain could happen. People will get into the voting booth and think, "For God's sake let this be the end of it."
Without new immigration controls zero chance of that
Migration controls aren't even in the top three priorities people have for Brexit in today's YouGov poll.
Tighter immigration controls were fourth out of eight in what voters most wanted from Brexit in that poll anyway with 29% putting it as their top priority, more even than the 27% who voted for UKIP in the 2014 European elections
I can't see us rejoining because we'd need to have another referendum and I think the entire country would puke a lung at the thought of that. As we have painfully discovered (first in Scotland, now in the entire UK) referendums on these questions are hideously divisive. We are bored of being divided.
So I don't think we will be trying to formally rejoin for a generation or more. Maybe never.
What I CAN see happening, very easily, is a Labour government quietly taking us straight back into the SM and CU, & accepting FoM, in return for payments and a say in some of the lawmaking. It would be a special associate membership, which they won't call membership - coz that would need a referendum.
Before Labour can rejoin the SM and CU we have to have left it, and on the present course that will be 2021 at the earliest and has every chance of being pushed back or never happening.
The divisiveness of referendums is a reason why an unexpected landslide for Remain could happen. People will get into the voting booth and think, "For God's sake let this be the end of it."
Without new immigration controls zero chance of that
Migration controls aren't even in the top three priorities people have for Brexit in today's YouGov poll.
Tighter immigration controls were fourth out of eight in what voters most wanted from Brexit in that poll anyway with 29% putting it as their top priority, more even than the 27% who voted for UKIP in the 2014 European elections
Tighter immigration controls easily beat protecting rights of UK citizens in the EU and avoiding a hard border in Ireland and also beat reducing payments to the EU and no longer having to obey ECJ rulings as a priority from Brexit in today's Yougov.
Only maintaining security co operation with the EU against terrorism, being able to do our own free trade deals with countries outside the EU and maintaining free trade with the EU beat it
Can some of the legal eagles on here suggest why the now infamous two gay guys that everybody says they were sticking up in the Stokes trial for where never called, but have been interviewed by the media today?
On topic: spot on, this is what still justifies Boris as being amongst the favourites in the betting odds. What is more, the longer possible leave opponents stay in the cabinet, the more their purity will be questioned. Leadsom has been pretty hard line, but will that impression survive a period of defending Chequers or even sit on hands silence? As for Gove - well - is it possible to roll and swivel one's eyes simultaneously? Boris has no such problem
Can some of the legal eagles on here suggest why the now infamous two gay guys that everybody says they were sticking up in the Stokes trial for where never called, but have been interviewed by the media today?
Wasn't it something to do with them being so drunk that they couldn't actually get their stories straight? I am sure someone posted a link about it earlier.
It is said that a country gets the politicians it deserves. The choice really is horrific. What has this country done to deserve this lot? Oh hang on the great British electorate voted for self-harm already recently, so why not go a bit further and vote in a far-left terrorist sympathiser or a serial liar and charlatan populist for PM
I can't see us rejoining because we'd need to have another referendum and I think the entire country would puke a lung at the thought of that. As we have painfully discovered (first in Scotland, now in the entire UK) referendums on these questions are hideously divisive. We are bored of being divided.
So I don't think we will be trying to formally rejoin for a generation or more. Maybe never.
What I CAN see happening, very easily, is a Labour government quietly taking us straight back into the SM and CU, & accepting FoM, in return for payments and a say in some of the lawmaking. It would be a special associate membership, which they won't call membership - coz that would need a referendum.
Before Labour can rejoin the SM and CU we have to have left it, and on the present course that will be 2021 at the earliest and has every chance of being pushed back or never happening.
The divisiveness of referendums is a reason why an unexpected landslide for Remain could happen. People will get into the voting booth and think, "For God's sake let this be the end of it."
Without new immigration controls zero chance of that
Migration controls aren't even in the top three priorities people have for Brexit in today's YouGov poll.
Immigration controls as Yougov showed just a month ago were what voters most wanted from Brexit and as polling showed at the time of the referendum the need for tighter immigration controls waa the most common reason given by Leave voters for voting Leave
To paraphrase Yes Minister; Most Leave voters/Sun readers (much the same) don't care who is in the country as long as they've got big tits
Can you define smearer? Is that anyone who doesn’t criticise Corbyn? What exactly is a correct amount of criticism before it becomes a smear? Is it still a smear if you are point8ng out a fact?
Can you define what you consider a fact
A fact like he is a Commie Spy?
A fact like he is an Anti Semite?
A fact like the Munich bombers are buried in Libya not Tunisia?
On topic: spot on, this is what still justifies Boris as being amongst the favourites in the betting odds. What is more, the longer possible leave opponents stay in the cabinet, the more their purity will be questioned. Leadsom has been pretty hard line, but will that impression survive a period of defending Chequers or even sit on hands silence? As for Gove - well - is it possible to roll and swivel one's eyes simultaneously? Boris has no such problem
It's true Boris is sitting waiting for the compromise to be made, so he can cry 'sell out' and try and sew up the hard line vote. Essentially a reprise of his strategy when he expected Remain to narrowly win the referendum. However the country needs grown ups who can do deals, not primadonnas who can do nothing.
BJO postings reminds me of that bloke the other day who dug such a massive hole on the beach for his kids that the authorities had to come around and ask him to fill it in before he left because it was a genuine health and safety hazard.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
Ha Ha Ha, just ONE percent more than the final Yougov pre EU referendum poll which had Remain ahead 52/48 just before Leave won once the votes were counted 52/48
I can't see us rejoining because we'd need to have another referendum and I think the entire country would puke a lung at the thought of that. As we have painfully discovered (first in Scotland, now in the entire UK) referendums on these questions are hideously divisive. We are bored of being divided.
So I don't think we will be trying to formally rejoin for a generation or more. Maybe never.
What I CAN see happening, very easily, is a Labour government quietly taking us straight back into the SM and CU, & accepting FoM, in return for payments and a say in some of the lawmaking. It would be a special associate membership, which they won't call membership - coz that would need a referendum.
Before Labour can rejoin the SM and CU we have to have left it, and on the present course that will be 2021 at the earliest and has every chance of being pushed back or never happening.
The divisiveness of referendums is a reason why an unexpected landslide for Remain could happen. People will get into the voting booth and think, "For God's sake let this be the end of it."
Without new immigration controls zero chance of that
Migration controls aren't even in the top three priorities people have for Brexit in today's YouGov poll.
Immigration controls as Yougov showed just a month ago were what voters most wanted from Brexit and as polling showed at the time of the referendum the need for tighter immigration controls waa the most common reason given by Leave voters for voting Leave
To paraphrase Yes Minister; Most Leave voters/Sun readers (much the same) don't care who is in the country as long as they've got big tits
BJO postings reminds me of that bloke the other day who dug such a massive hole on the beach for his kids that the authorities had to come around and ask him to fill it in before he left because it was a genuine health and safety hazard.
Off to see Jezza in Mansfield tomorrow.
Do you want to come along or are you too busy reposting Guido
Following on from @Cyclefree's excellent thread yesterday, our political journalism has always worked on the assumption that if you can prove a [sufficiently big] lie then a resignation should follow.
Saying "I was present at wreath-laying but don't think I was involved" in one piece to camera then admitting "I laid one wreath" in another broadcast interview within 24 hours ought to qualify.
LOL, I love how you claim to be calling out lies by telling a lie yourself.
Your quote of Corbyn saying "I laid one wreath" conveniently leaves out his very next words that the wreath was for people who died in the 1985 attack - not for the people who died in the 1992 raids, which is what he's being criticised for.
Whether Corbyn is telling the truth about not laying a wreath for the 1992 incident, I have no idea, but it's flat-out "fake news" to claim he's "admitted" to doing so. But is typical of Tory commentators for ruining valid attacks on Corbyn by going overboard.
Bollocks. He made clear yesterday that he wasn't involved in wreath-laying, and today he admitted doing so. And that's without getting into all the pretty damning pictorial evidence as to which wreath he laid, which suggests he's still evading the issue.
Can you point out to me where, in yesterday's statement, he denied laying a wreath for the 1985 deaths?
Ah, I see what you mean. Obviously he gave the impression yesterday that he hadn't laid a wreath at all, but now he is claiming that he laid a different wreath. So perhaps I shouldn't have suggested that he has "admitted" it himself, though he (and his Labour Press surrogates) have clearly been very evasive over the last couple of days. Yesterday's interview was obviously supposed to be a denial - implying that he was near the wreath but not "involved", but then the 2017 tape emerged, so he had to - ahem- clarify again today.
The trouble is, the pictorial evidence is damning. He didn't lay the wreath he claimed to, and he did lay the one he is denying (see e.g. the @AtheistMessiah thread linked below by Carlotta). Your "I have no idea" is risible.
Ok.... NOW he HAS contradicted what he said yesterday
I still don't think the Tories' "terrorist sympathiser" line (rather than that he's dumb and naive) is going to fly any more than it did in 2017, but the contradictions might do some damage to his brand as "honest".
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
Following on from @Cyclefree's excellent thread yesterday, our political journalism has always worked on the assumption that if you can prove a [sufficiently big] lie then a resignation should follow.
Saying "I was present at wreath-laying but don't think I was involved" in one piece to camera then admitting "I laid one wreath" in another broadcast interview within 24 hours ought to qualify.
LOL, I love how you claim to be calling out lies by telling a lie yourself.
Your quote of Corbyn saying "I laid one wreath" conveniently leaves out his very next words that the wreath was for people who died in the 1985 attack - not for the people who died in the 1992 raids, which is what he's being criticised for.
Whether Corbyn is telling the truth about not laying a wreath for the 1992 incident, I have no idea, but it's flat-out "fake news" to claim he's "admitted" to doing so. But is typical of Tory commentators for ruining valid attacks on Corbyn by going overboard.
Bollocks. He made clear yesterday that he wasn't involved in wreath-laying, and today he admitted doing so. And that's without getting into all the pretty damning pictorial evidence as to which wreath he laid, which suggests he's still evading the issue.
Can you point out to me where, in yesterday's statement, he denied laying a wreath for the 1985 deaths?
Ah, I see what you mean. Obviously he gave the impression yesterday that he hadn't laid a wreath at all, but now he is claiming that he laid a different wreath. So perhaps I shouldn't have suggested that he has "admitted" it himself, though he (and his Labour Press surrogates) have clearly been very evasive over the last couple of days. Yesterday's interview was obviously supposed to be a denial - implying that he was near the wreath but not "involved", but then the 2017 tape emerged, so he had to - ahem- clarify again today.
The trouble is, the pictorial evidence is damning. He didn't lay the wreath he claimed to, and he did lay the one he is denying (see e.g. the @AtheistMessiah thread linked below by Carlotta). Your "I have no idea" is risible.
Ok.... NOW he HAS contradicted what he said yesterday
I still don't think the Tories' "terrorist sympathiser" line (rather than that he's dumb and naive) is going to fly any more than it did in 2017, but the contradictions might do some damage to his brand as "honest".
No they won't, just like him lying about Train-gate didn't hurt him. Like Trump, for some people Jezza can never ever tell a lie and is the messiah.
Indeed, anti-Semitism is to Corbyn what the Russia election probe is to Trump — more and more keeps dripping out, but nothing seems to stick. Instead, Corbyn and his followers keep gas-lighting us, telling us what we can see with our own us is not true. The chutzpah of it all is almost breathtaking. The mental gymnastics required to believe it would be impressive if it were not all so frightening.
These post-truth politicians pretend they are being authentic and honest but, in reality, they deny, obfuscate and muddy the waters as much as they can. So what if Corbyn had written in the Morning Star about the wreath being laid on the graves of terrorists? Fake news sites like Skwawkbox were happy to go into bat for him, dismissing the Mail story as “desperate smears” before seemingly deleting a host of tweets on the topic when Corbyn released his statement.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
the amazing thing is you think a re run will be about membeship of the EU
The amazing thing is you think the anti-establishment position will be Leave.
It still is
In your head, which just shows you’re in a privileged bubble and have lost your bearings on where the country is.
On all the latest EU referendum polls (even those with Remain ahead) Leave still leads with working class voters.
The establishment upper middle class have still not forgiven the majority of the working class for beating a majority of the middle class for the first time since Wilson beat Heath in 1974
Question....if he just serves the extra 3-4 years in the hole and doesn't pay back the £6.5 million, is that it? i.e. could he play the long game and think effectively I am making that by just doing the time?
Question....if he just serves the extra 3-4 years in the hole and doesn't pay back the £6.5 million, is that it? i.e. could he play the long game and think effectively I am making that by just doing the time?
The CPS demonstrated he had the funds. Why can't they be seized?
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
According to tonight's BBC news, a) there was maintenance currently work being done on the supports to that stretch of the motorway and b) they claim to have been continuously monitoring it.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
the amazing thing is you think a re run will be about membeship of the EU
The amazing thing is you think the anti-establishment position will be Leave.
It still is
In your head, which just shows you’re in a privileged bubble and have lost your bearings on where the country is.
On all the latest EU referendum polls (even those with Remain ahead) Leave still leads with working class voters.
The establishment upper middle class have still not forgiven the majority of the working class for beating a majority of the middle class for the first time since Wilson beat Heath in 1974
ABC1s voted Conservative in 1997. The Blair landslide came from C2DEs.
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
It's too early to speculate, not that that will stop it. We need to know both the failure mode and the underlying causes which will be the subject of serious analysis. It could be design, construction flaws, poor maintenance or a combination of all three.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. It could take months before we know.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
the amazing thing is you think a re run will be about membeship of the EU
The amazing thing is you think the anti-establishment position will be Leave.
It still is
In your head, which just shows you’re in a privileged bubble and have lost your bearings on where the country is.
ROFL
perhaps you need to understand what the establishment is beoire you comment on it.
I don't see any sign of a revolution to put your kind of people in charge, do you? Leave's great white hope is an Etonian clown.
Youre in the middle of it. British revolutions tend to be non violent changing of the guard unlike our continental cousins. Tea and biscuits rather than burning the barricades.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
the amazing thing is you think a re run will be about membeship of the EU
The amazing thing is you think the anti-establishment position will be Leave.
It still is
In your head, which just shows you’re in a privileged bubble and have lost your bearings on where the country is.
On all the latest EU referendum polls (even those with Remain ahead) Leave still leads with working class voters.
The establishment upper middle class have still not forgiven the majority of the working class for beating a majority of the middle class for the first time since Wilson beat Heath in 1974
ABC1s voted Conservative in 1997. The Blair landslide came from C2DEs.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
Ha Ha Ha, just ONE percent more than the final Yougov pre EU referendum poll which had Remain ahead 52/48 just before Leave won once the votes were counted 52/48
You keep trying to make this false comparison. Yet it is hugely easier to weight a representative sample now, with data on 2016 referendum voting, than it was prior to 2016 when pollsters were flying blind, particularly as to likelihood to vote. And people are a lot more clued up on the whole affair now. Trying to draw a parallel between polling error in 2016 and the likely position now is dishonest.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
the amazing thing is you think a re run will be about membeship of the EU
The amazing thing is you think the anti-establishment position will be Leave.
It still is
In your head, which just shows you’re in a privileged bubble and have lost your bearings on where the country is.
On all the latest EU referendum polls (even those with Remain ahead) Leave still leads with working class voters.
The establishment upper middle class have still not forgiven the majority of the working class for beating a majority of the middle class for the first time since Wilson beat Heath in 1974
ABC1s voted Conservative in 1997. The Blair landslide came from C2DEs.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
the amazing thing is you think a re run will be about membeship of the EU
The amazing thing is you think the anti-establishment position will be Leave.
It still is
In your head, which just shows you’re in a privileged bubble and have lost your bearings on where the country is.
ROFL
perhaps you need to understand what the establishment is beoire you comment on it.
I don't see any sign of a revolution to put your kind of people in charge, do you? Leave's great white hope is an Etonian clown.
Youre in the middle of it. British revolutions tend to be non violent changing of the guard unlike our continental cousins. Tea and biscuits rather than burning the barricades.
Perhaps the civilised nature of it all is why you don't notice that you are in the middle of a counter-revolution.
BJO postings reminds me of that bloke the other day who dug such a massive hole on the beach for his kids that the authorities had to come around and ask him to fill it in before he left because it was a genuine health and safety hazard.
Off to see Jezza in Mansfield tomorrow.
Do you want to come along or are you too busy reposting Guido
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
the amazing thing is you think a re run will be about membeship of the EU
The amazing thing is you think the anti-establishment position will be Leave.
It still is
In your head, which just shows you’re in a privileged bubble and have lost your bearings on where the country is.
ROFL
perhaps you need to understand what the establishment is beoire you comment on it.
I don't see any sign of a revolution to put your kind of people in charge, do you? Leave's great white hope is an Etonian clown.
Youre in the middle of it. British revolutions tend to be non violent changing of the guard unlike our continental cousins. Tea and biscuits rather than burning the barricades.
Perhaps the civilised nature of it all is why you don't notice that you are in the middle of a counter-revolution.
the squeals of the losers is hardly a counter revolution
I am not suggesting its cheap. Its also misleading to imply, as Jolyon Maugham seems to, that it might significantly cut the HB bill, it might even increase it. What I am saying is that it is necessary for the reasons you have also identified and that it is affordable.
It is one of the clearest examples (and there are many) of the government being so caught up with the B word that it is not getting on with the day job. It is a concern to me that a significant part of this inactivity seems to have happened on Javid's watch but maybe the Treasury simply wouldn't budge. Hammond never shows any imagination.
Not sure I agree. The government is doing a lot in recent years to nudge changes. I believe new build now are at the highest rate in over a decade. I also believe that the proportion going to first time buyers is now at a higher level.
It may be too little too late but I think the government would rather tackle the macroeconomic issues than get into a major house building program.
We are really not making progress on this. We are not even keeping up with current demand, let alone addressing a chronic backlog. It, and student fees, are the main reasons young people are so anti Tory.
The numbers will bounce back in Q2, though, as construction output recovered.
Overall, there were 184,000 new build properties last year, which is double the figure in 2010.
Not enough. And a comparison with a time when the economy was teetering on the brink of something horrible is somewhat flattering.
The Government is building more but nothing like enough to avoid the inevitable political problems that are building up for the Conservatives on this.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
Ha Ha Ha, just ONE percent more than the final Yougov pre EU referendum poll which had Remain ahead 52/48 just before Leave won once the votes were counted 52/48
You keep trying to make this false comparison. Yet it is hugely easier to weight a representative sample now, with data on 2016 referendum voting, than it was prior to 2016 when pollsters were flying blind, particularly as to likelihood to vote. And people are a lot more clued up on the whole affair now. Trying to draw a parallel between polling error in 2016 and the likely position now is dishonest.
If people are much more clued up, why do you think there's only been a 3-4% swing?
Remainers would win much more respect if they were honest: they think they've done just about enough to squeak a win on an exact re-run.
I disagree actually, and could see them losing even more badly than last time, but I'll be just as honest: it's a unnecessary risk I have no interest in running to prove the point.
The mandate is clear and it's being implemented. We will all be able to judge that in time.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
the amazing thing is you think a re run will be about membeship of the EU
The amazing thing is you think the anti-establishment position will be Leave.
It still is
In your head, which just shows you’re in a privileged bubble and have lost your bearings on where the country is.
On all the latest EU referendum polls (even those with Remain ahead) Leave still leads with working class voters.
The establishment upper middle class have still not forgiven the majority of the working class for beating a majority of the middle class for the first time since Wilson beat Heath in 1974
ABC1s voted Conservative in 1997. The Blair landslide came from C2DEs.
Not a majority of ABC1s. More ABC1s voted for New Labour or the LDs combined than the Tories in 1997.
You're clutching at straws again... Labour won an absolute majority of C2DEs which overturned the vote of ABC1s.
No I was absolutely right.
The last time over 50% of working class voters beat over 50% of middle class voters before the EU referendum was in October and February 1974 when over 50% of ABC1 voters voted Tory and over 50% of C2DE voters voted Labour.
In 1997 only 41% of ABC1 voters voted Tory ie well under 50%
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
It's too early to speculate, not that that will stop it. We need to know both the failure mode and the underlying causes which will be the subject of serious analysis. It could be design, construction flaws, poor maintenance or a combination of all three.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. It could take months before we know.
Someone below asked how a bridge could collapse suddenly after being standing for so many years. That quote above is of relevance to that; it is another way in which some structures can age.
Ok.... NOW he HAS contradicted what he said yesterday
I still don't think the Tories' "terrorist sympathiser" line (rather than that he's dumb and naive) is going to fly any more than it did in 2017, but the contradictions might do some damage to his brand as "honest".
I think that's a fair summary, if he makes it to the election. Most people simply don't give a monkey's about any foreign policy, let alone the Middle East, and as @AndyJS pointed out earlier, most people don't care about things they can't remember, either.
But this must make it less likely that he makes it to the election.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
the amazing thing is you think a re run will be about membeship of the EU
The amazing thing is you think the anti-establishment position will be Leave.
It still is
In your head, which just shows you’re in a privileged bubble and have lost your bearings on where the country is.
On all the latest EU referendum polls (even those with Remain ahead) Leave still leads with working class voters.
The establishment upper middle class have still not forgiven the majority of the working class for beating a majority of the middle class for the first time since Wilson beat Heath in 1974
ABC1s voted Conservative in 1997. The Blair landslide came from C2DEs.
Not a majority of ABC1s. More ABC1s voted for New Labour or the LDs combined than the Tories in 1997.
You're clutching at straws again... Labour won an absolute majority of C2DEs which overturned the vote of ABC1s.
No I was absolutely right.
The last time over 50% of working class voters beat over 50% of middle class voters before the EU referendum was in October and February 1974 when over 50% of ABC1 voters voted Tory and over 50% of C2DE voters voted Labour.
In 1997 only 41% of ABC1 voters voted Tory ie well under 50%
That's only because the two party vote was lower. You're making a completely spurious point.
If you treat 97 as a referendum on Blair then exactly the same thing holds - a majority of C2DEs defeated a majority of ABC1s.
Totally O/T but thanks to Malc for tips at Chelmsford earlier today for a racing ignoramus. All his tips were good, especially (sod it) the one where I thought I knew better! Even the one which he was ‘iffy’ about came home!
Hat tip!!!!!!!!
And I’ll give greater weight to his opinion in future.!
Apparently it's more complex than that. There are two people: husband Jo(h)n and wife Rachael. They had two accounts, @rachael_swindon and @jon_swindon. Jon was the political one, Rachael was not. Jon's account was banned and Rachael's account started getting more political. Whether Jon is using Rachael's account, Rachel is tweeting her own stuff, or whether it's useful to distinguish the two is something I'm not going to delve into because this is more stalkery than I'm comfortable with. Anyhoo:
It's absolutely horrible the stuff you can find out online about people. A few years ago there was an American white supremacist who fell into the news, and the fact that he had a lonely hearts ad was mentioned. A few bits of googling and archive.org and I ended up looking at his ad. It was a bit sad and scary: in one of his pictures he had his top off and he was a bit threatening (you wouldn't reply unless you like rough men). But although his text was inchoate, rambling and on the cusp of violence he was also a person trying to form a relationship, and I wasn't comfortable with exposing him. It may sound funny, but people have a right to private lives. So I just left it there.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
the amazing thing is you think a re run will be about membeship of the EU
The amazing thing is you think the anti-establishment position will be Leave.
It still is
In your head, which just shows you’re in a privileged bubble and have lost your bearings on where the country is.
On all the latest EU referendum polls (even those with Remain ahead) Leave still leads with working class voters.
The establishment upper middle class have still not forgiven the majority of the working class for beating a majority of the middle class for the first time since Wilson beat Heath in 1974
ABC1s voted Conservative in 1997. The Blair landslide came from C2DEs.
Not a majority of ABC1s. More ABC1s voted for New Labour or the LDs combined than the Tories in 1997.
You're clutching at straws again... Labour won an absolute majority of C2DEs which overturned the vote of ABC1s.
No I was absolutely right.
The last time over 50% of working class voters beat over 50% of middle class voters before the EU referendum was in October and February 1974 when over 50% of ABC1 voters voted Tory and over 50% of C2DE voters voted Labour.
In 1997 only 41% of ABC1 voters voted Tory ie well under 50%
In those times were not a significant proportion of ABC1 voters voting L or LD?
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
It's too early to speculate, not that that will stop it. We need to know both the failure mode and the underlying causes which will be the subject of serious analysis. It could be design, construction flaws, poor maintenance or a combination of all three.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. It could take months before we know.
Someone below asked how a bridge could collapse suddenly after being standing for so many years. That quote above is of relevance to that; it is another way in which some structures can age.
Don’t know whether this has been dealt with elsewhere, but has the nurse who lost her registration and her job at the same time as Dr Bawa-Garba been reinstated as well.
Or is it yet another case of doctors looking after their own and not worrying about others?
That may sound bitter, but it’s bitter experience.
Don’t know whether this has been dealt with elsewhere, but has the nurse who lost her registration and her job at the same time as Dr Bawa-Garba been reinstated as well.
Or is it yet another case of doctors looking after their own and not worrying about others?
That may sound bitter, but it’s bitter experience.
My recent experience backs up that impression that doctors always look after one another. It was far easier for me to challenge poor doctoring than the nurses directly involved in my care even they they were even more aware of shortcomings than I was.
It was not the first time the doctor had been pulled up fir this particular behaviour but the nurses needed my testimony to prompt action. The status imbalance makes it very difficult for nurses.
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
It's too early to speculate, not that that will stop it. We need to know both the failure mode and the underlying causes which will be the subject of serious analysis. It could be design, construction flaws, poor maintenance or a combination of all three.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. It could take months before we know.
How can that possibly be true? We are on the Internet, it must be someone’s fault and it must be clear by tomorrow why it’s their fault and they need to be imprisoned NOW!!!
Oh. That was Grenfell Tower in the UK. When the tragedy is somewhere else it’s seemingly okay for it to take a year or two for a full engineering investigation and report, that primarily seeks to avoid a repetition more than it seeks to apportion blame, as with any other plane or train crash.
Totally O/T but thanks to Malc for tips at Chelmsford earlier today for a racing ignoramus. All his tips were good, especially (sod it) the one where I thought I knew better! Even the one which he was ‘iffy’ about came home!
Hat tip!!!!!!!!
And I’ll give greater weight to his opinion in future.!
In weird news for today, a man crashes his employer's plane into his own home, after being released from jail for domestic abuse. Fortunately there were no other casualties:
Re the rather startling fall in unemployment having no effect on pay rates.
Merely anecdotally (with usual warnings) but retention and recruitment of workers is becoming more difficult yet resistance to general pay rises is continuing.
Even in companies which are making good profits.
Aside from the recruitment difficulties this brings I suspect it also makes workers steadily more disgruntled with consequent reductions in productivity.
With vacancies edging up to another new all time high and the redundancies from the retail apocalypse having mostly worked through the system (and with minimal effect) there should continue to be good employment figures for the next few months.
Just heard a Corbyn cultist say live on Sky Corbyn won a nobel peace prize.
These people are so idiotic and they surround him.
Time he was called out by labour mps
Time he was booted out by Labour MPs...
They can't.
By staying in the party they are complicit. If they had the courage and over 100 resign the whip, appoint their own leader, and stand as Independents anything could happen
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
@RaynerSkyNews Follow Follow @RaynerSkyNews More NEW: Dr. Mohammad Shtayyeh, a Palestinian Authority Minister who was pictured with @jeremycorbyn at the cemetery in Tunis in 2014, endorses the Labour leader’s account of the wreath laying ceremony
Just heard a Corbyn cultist say live on Sky Corbyn won a nobel peace prize.
These people are so idiotic and they surround him.
Time he was called out by labour mps
Time he was booted out by Labour MPs...
They can't.
By staying in the party they are complicit. If they had the courage and over 100 resign the whip, appoint their own leader, and stand as Independents anything could happen
They want to fight for the party from within I guess. Or maybe they are virtue signalling, in that they don't like him, but not so much as their rhetoric would indicate.
@RaynerSkyNews Follow Follow @RaynerSkyNews More NEW: Dr. Mohammad Shtayyeh, a Palestinian Authority Minister who was pictured with @jeremycorbyn at the cemetery in Tunis in 2014, endorses the Labour leader’s account of the wreath laying ceremony
Sky News confirms Jezza is still the Messiah and the smearers like you are wrong again.
Bad luck
Go with me on this. Will require some serious mental gymnastics on your part, but try.
What if Corbyn is not as good as you think he is? What if he might have got this wrong? What if he has declining reach outside his own core? Would you consider, maybe - and go with me on this - someone else as Labour leader? Someone capable of reuniting the party.
Just heard a Corbyn cultist say live on Sky Corbyn won a nobel peace prize.
These people are so idiotic and they surround him.
Time he was called out by labour mps
Time he was booted out by Labour MPs...
They can't.
By staying in the party they are complicit. If they had the courage and over 100 resign the whip, appoint their own leader, and stand as Independents anything could happen
Of course you would want SDP 2.
Would guarantee a Tory Government for another decade.
Corbyn got 40% at GE 2017
After BREXIT I am confident that will increase at the next GE.
Of course SDP2 would bugger that up well and truly.
The Blairites have nothing to offer not a popular policy idea between them IMO
On the tragedy it Italy: it might be a design problem:
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
Very interesting, but why has the bridge been allowed to stand for 51 years if they allegedly knew there were problems with it?
Hopefully that'll come out as they investigate. But not all suggested problems are real problems, and others can be managed. Or they think they can manage them.
The Forth Bridge problems of a couple of years ago with the cracked truss link may be an example. From memory, they knew there was a potential problem there, and they had plans to replace the connections. However works can cause massive disruption, and there is only so much budget, and they were not replaced. This resulted in a (thankfully minor) failure.
Hence an engineering issue becomes an operational and budgetary one, and hence ultimately a political one.
People think of the cost of building structures, but rarely consider that as they age they need increasing amounts of maintenance. And maintenance is fundamentally unsexy, especially when compared to a shiny new structure.
How would you vote in a referendum on membership of the EU?
Remain: 47% Leave: 41%
At this point would you prefer that Britain stays in or leaves the European Union?
Prefer that Britain stays in the EU: 47% Prefer that Britain leaves in the EU: 44%
So despite everything Remain cannot even reach the 48% it got on referendum day let alone over 50%.
In the end it was Leave who outpolled its poll rating while Remain underperformed
Don't be silly. This poll is 53/47 to Remain once you remove the don't knows and wouldn't votes.
the amazing thing is you think a re run will be about membeship of the EU
The amazing thing is you think the anti-establishment position will be Leave.
It still is
In your head, which just shows you’re in a privileged bubble and have lost your bearings on where the country is.
ROFL
perhaps you need to understand what the establishment is beoire you comment on it.
I don't see any sign of a revolution to put your kind of people in charge, do you? Leave's great white hope is an Etonian clown.
Youre in the middle of it. British revolutions tend to be non violent changing of the guard unlike our continental cousins. Tea and biscuits rather than burning the barricades.
Perhaps the civilised nature of it all is why you don't notice that you are in the middle of a counter-revolution.
the squeals of the losers is hardly a counter revolution
The best thing to look at for long term shifts in opinion is the Nat Can survey,
In 1992, roughly even numbers of people are eurosceptic and europhile. By 2017, eurosceptics outnumber europhiles by about 4 to 1.
At the moment, public opinion on EU membership is about where it was on 22nd June 2016, but it remains very eurosceptic.
@RaynerSkyNews Follow Follow @RaynerSkyNews More NEW: Dr. Mohammad Shtayyeh, a Palestinian Authority Minister who was pictured with @jeremycorbyn at the cemetery in Tunis in 2014, endorses the Labour leader’s account of the wreath laying ceremony
Which account of Corbyn's is that? His first, or the most recent one? Or was it Schrodinger's wreath?
Just heard a Corbyn cultist say live on Sky Corbyn won a nobel peace prize.
These people are so idiotic and they surround him.
Time he was called out by labour mps
Time he was booted out by Labour MPs...
They can't.
By staying in the party they are complicit. If they had the courage and over 100 resign the whip, appoint their own leader, and stand as Independents anything could happen
Of course you would want SDP 2.
Would guarantee a Tory Government for another decade.
Corbyn got 40% at GE 2017
After BREXIT I am confident that will increase at the next GE.
Of course SDP2 would bugger that up well and truly.
The Blairites have nothing to offer not a popular policy idea between them IMO
No - I want a proper opposition that can hold the government to account. Not some Trump style cult movement
Might you be so kind as to wait until I'm on the site before you make comments for my benefit.
As to the issue there are more people employed in agriculture than before the Referendum and as we know the supermarkets are overflowing with soft fruit.
Now perhaps there are shortages in Scotland but that sounds like a problem caused by the parsimony of Scottish farmers and is for them and Holyrood to deal with.
Sky News confirms Jezza is still the Messiah and the smearers like you are wrong again.
Bad luck
Go with me on this. Will require some serious mental gymnastics on your part, but try.
What if Corbyn is not as good as you think he is? What if he might have got this wrong? What if he has declining reach outside his own core? Would you consider, maybe - and go with me on this - someone else as Labour leader? Someone capable of reuniting the party.
Yes. After GE 2022
People told us he was unpopular before GE2017 and Labour would lose about 100 seats we had the biggest increase in support since WW2
Go with me on this. Will require some serious mental gymnastics on your part, but try.
What if Corbyn is as good as I and a lot of the 40% that voted for us think he is?
What if you might have got this wrong like in 2017?
What if he has an original popular Manifesto that reach outside the 40% core at GE2022?
Would you consider, maybe - and go with me on this - keeping him as Labour leader until GE2022 and uniting behind him and throwing everything at beating the Tories next time unlike in 2017?
If he fails after a united party effort to win in 2022 we elect someone else capable of uniting the party after a 4th defeat in a row.
Following on from my post, the absolute classic example of spotting a howling design error after construction was the Citicorp Tower:
"According to LeMessurier, in 1978 an undergraduate architecture student contacted him with a bold claim about LeMessurier’s building: that Citicorp Center could blow over in the wind.
The student (who has since been lost to history) was studying Citicorp Center and had found that the building was particularly vulnerable to quartering winds (winds that strike the building at its corners). Normally, buildings are strongest at their corners, and it’s the perpendicular winds (winds that strike the building at its faces) that cause the greatest strain. But this was not a normal building.
LeMessurier had accounted for the perpendicular winds, but not the quartering winds. He checked the math and found that the student was right. He compared what velocity winds the building could withstand with weather data and found that a storm strong enough to topple Citicorp Center hits New York City every 55 years."
It was actually worse than that - it was every 16 years. And they fixed the building without anyone finding out!
Alastair is of course absolutely right, there will be shenanigans in this election.
One point to add is that, without needing any cajoling, MPs might themselves decide to vote for a candidate who is not their preferred choice, in order to stop a candidate whom they'd see as potentially disastrous. As things stand today, the obvious 'hold your nose to stop Boris' candidate is Michael Gove, a point which Michael Gove is likely to draw to the attention of his colleagues.
Of course, things might look very different when the contest eventually happens.
The membership will go absolutely apeshit if Gove is the second choice, so as to defeat Boris. There'll be a massive write-in campaign for Boris if they try that.
Says who? Its worth pointing out that like the Westminster Conservative party, the grassroots membership is UK wide, and it doesn't just consist of uber Brexiteers or the ConHome brigade who make a lot of noise on social media. Who has proved the more competent and hard working Cabinet Minister, Boris or Gove? Who resigned and legged it when delivering Brexit got tough, who stayed to make it work? Even during the EU Ref campaign, Gove was a far more effective and persuasive campaigner for Vote Leave than Boris.
Just how much work has Boris been actually putting in on the ground with backbench MPs, and more importantly in their constituencies among their activists over the last couple of years? Gove on the other hand, even turned up at short notice to help out the local Scottish Conservatives in Aberdeenshire recently while on a private family holiday in Aberdeen. I said it at the time, and I will say it again, Gove took a political bullet for the party in stopping Boris last time. And while it may have cost him politically in the short term, Gove's stock is now considerable higher than it was in the first days, weeks and months after May was elected. And while Nadine Dorries might be Boris's number one female fan, Boris really does have a more general problem among female Conservatives including me.
In the short term, Boris the Maverick has managed to garner the support of uber Brexiteers angry at May's Chequers deal by simple resigning and writing a couple of articles. Meanwhile, most Conservative MPs seem determined to hang onto May until Brexit is delivered, especially if the alternative is Boris. But what about the soon to be post Brexit period of UK politics, just what could a failed Foreign Secretary bring to a Conservative party trying to steer the economy through this period and then onto winning the next GE? Just like that previous favourite Davis proved not to be the answer to the party winning power again, I suspect that even the grassroots will realise Boris is not the answer when it comes to the party hanging onto power.
Just heard a Corbyn cultist say live on Sky Corbyn won a nobel peace prize.
These people are so idiotic and they surround him.
Time he was called out by labour mps
Time he was booted out by Labour MPs...
They can't.
By staying in the party they are complicit. If they had the courage and over 100 resign the whip, appoint their own leader, and stand as Independents anything could happen
Of course you would want SDP 2.
Would guarantee a Tory Government for another decade.
Corbyn got 40% at GE 2017
After BREXIT I am confident that will increase at the next GE.
Of course SDP2 would bugger that up well and truly.
The Blairites have nothing to offer not a popular policy idea between them IMO
Might you be so kind as to wait until I'm on the site before you make comments for my benefit.
As to the issue there are more people employed in agriculture than before the Referendum and as we know the supermarkets are overflowing with soft fruit.
Now perhaps there are shortages in Scotland but that sounds like a problem caused by the parsimony of Scottish farmers and is for them and Holyrood to deal with.
Of course anyone who has ever picked soft fruit or seen an apple tree will know that vast amounts of produce rot anyway.
A worldwide problem as this story in the BBC today shows:
' Lawrence Okettayot is on a road trip across Uganda.
He's spreading the word about a device he's created which could be a solution to Africa's food waste crisis.
Food wasted every year in the continent could feed up to 300 million people, according to the United Nations. In just Uganda alone, up to 40% of fruit and vegetables end up being discarded. '
Sky News confirms Jezza is still the Messiah and the smearers like you are wrong again.
Bad luck
Mainly says he rolled his eyes.
He claims in the video to have 'totally condemned' what happened in 1972. Now I don't imagine he was other than appalled, but did he actually 'totally condemn' these actions. I think he's lying. I would suggest he did no such thing.
There is something deeply wrong with Jeremy Corbyn.
Sky News confirms Jezza is still the Messiah and the smearers like you are wrong again.
Bad luck
Go with me on this. Will require some serious mental gymnastics on your part, but try.
What if Corbyn is not as good as you think he is? What if he might have got this wrong? What if he has declining reach outside his own core? Would you consider, maybe - and go with me on this - someone else as Labour leader? Someone capable of reuniting the party.
Yes. After GE 2022
People told us he was unpopular before GE2017 and Labour would lose about 100 seats we had the biggest increase in support since WW2
Go with me on this. Will require some serious mental gymnastics on your part, but try.
What if Corbyn is as good as I and a lot of the 40% that voted for us think he is?
What if you might have got this wrong like in 2017?
What if he has an original popular Manifesto that reach outside the 40% core at GE2022?
Would you consider, maybe - and go with me on this - keeping him as Labour leader until GE2022 and uniting behind him and throwing everything at beating the Tories next time unlike in 2017?
If he fails after a united party effort to win in 2022 we elect someone else capable of uniting the party after a 4th defeat in a row.
Regards Comrade
Note you couldn't answer the question.
If he wants the enthusiastic support of the whole party, he - as leader - needs to reach out and give people a reason to vote for him. He needs to stop super serving his core.
He could start by condemning people who attack -so called - Blairites and celebrate the achievements of 97-10 and respect the efforts of people that actually won.
Following on from my post, the absolute classic example of spotting a howling design error after construction was the Citicorp Tower:
"According to LeMessurier, in 1978 an undergraduate architecture student contacted him with a bold claim about LeMessurier’s building: that Citicorp Center could blow over in the wind.
The student (who has since been lost to history) was studying Citicorp Center and had found that the building was particularly vulnerable to quartering winds (winds that strike the building at its corners). Normally, buildings are strongest at their corners, and it’s the perpendicular winds (winds that strike the building at its faces) that cause the greatest strain. But this was not a normal building.
LeMessurier had accounted for the perpendicular winds, but not the quartering winds. He checked the math and found that the student was right. He compared what velocity winds the building could withstand with weather data and found that a storm strong enough to topple Citicorp Center hits New York City every 55 years."
It was actually worse than that - it was every 16 years. And they fixed the building without anyone finding out!
Following on from my post, the absolute classic example of spotting a howling design error after construction was the Citicorp Tower:
"According to LeMessurier, in 1978 an undergraduate architecture student contacted him with a bold claim about LeMessurier’s building: that Citicorp Center could blow over in the wind.
The student (who has since been lost to history) was studying Citicorp Center and had found that the building was particularly vulnerable to quartering winds (winds that strike the building at its corners). Normally, buildings are strongest at their corners, and it’s the perpendicular winds (winds that strike the building at its faces) that cause the greatest strain. But this was not a normal building.
LeMessurier had accounted for the perpendicular winds, but not the quartering winds. He checked the math and found that the student was right. He compared what velocity winds the building could withstand with weather data and found that a storm strong enough to topple Citicorp Center hits New York City every 55 years."
It was actually worse than that - it was every 16 years. And they fixed the building without anyone finding out!
Following on from my post, the absolute classic example of spotting a howling design error after construction was the Citicorp Tower:
"According to LeMessurier, in 1978 an undergraduate architecture student contacted him with a bold claim about LeMessurier’s building: that Citicorp Center could blow over in the wind.
The student (who has since been lost to history) was studying Citicorp Center and had found that the building was particularly vulnerable to quartering winds (winds that strike the building at its corners). Normally, buildings are strongest at their corners, and it’s the perpendicular winds (winds that strike the building at its faces) that cause the greatest strain. But this was not a normal building.
LeMessurier had accounted for the perpendicular winds, but not the quartering winds. He checked the math and found that the student was right. He compared what velocity winds the building could withstand with weather data and found that a storm strong enough to topple Citicorp Center hits New York City every 55 years."
It was actually worse than that - it was every 16 years. And they fixed the building without anyone finding out!
Comments
What a time to be alive.
Only maintaining security co operation with the EU against terrorism, being able to do our own free trade deals with countries outside the EU and maintaining free trade with the EU beat it
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6059067/Corbyns-Venezuelan-ally-hikes-fuel-prices-amid-economic-chaos.html
A fact like he is a Commie Spy?
A fact like he is an Anti Semite?
A fact like the Munich bombers are buried in Libya not Tunisia?
Do you want to come along or are you too busy reposting Guido
I still don't think the Tories' "terrorist sympathiser" line (rather than that he's dumb and naive) is going to fly any more than it did in 2017, but the contradictions might do some damage to his brand as "honest".
"Mr Brencich said the designer, Riccardo Morandi, had miscalculated the "viscous deformation" - an ageing effect on reinforced concrete. "He was an engineer with great insight but lacking in practical calculations.""
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-45182675
I've not seen it called that before (but then again, IANAE), but I think they must mean plastic deformation with age, aka creep.
See:
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-disadvantages-of-creep-in-concrete
These post-truth politicians pretend they are being authentic and honest but, in reality, they deny, obfuscate and muddy the waters as much as they can. So what if Corbyn had written in the Morning Star about the wreath being laid on the graves of terrorists? Fake news sites like Skwawkbox were happy to go into bat for him, dismissing the Mail story as “desperate smears” before seemingly deleting a host of tweets on the topic when Corbyn released his statement.
https://capx.co/in-the-age-of-fake-news-corbyn-will-get-away-with-his-shameless-lies/
perhaps you need to understand what the establishment is beoire you comment on it.
The establishment upper middle class have still not forgiven the majority of the working class for beating a majority of the middle class for the first time since Wilson beat Heath in 1974
Daniel Jones, 63, has been sentenced to a further six years and 287 days for failing to pay back £6,599,021.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-45186338
Question....if he just serves the extra 3-4 years in the hole and doesn't pay back the £6.5 million, is that it? i.e. could he play the long game and think effectively I am making that by just doing the time?
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-1997
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. It could take months before we know.
In the EU referendum 54% of ABs and 52% of C1s voted Remain, 62% of C2s and 64% of DEs voted Leave
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
This matters far more than Brexit.
Remainers would win much more respect if they were honest: they think they've done just about enough to squeak a win on an exact re-run.
I disagree actually, and could see them losing even more badly than last time, but I'll be just as honest: it's a unnecessary risk I have no interest in running to prove the point.
The mandate is clear and it's being implemented. We will all be able to judge that in time.
The last time over 50% of working class voters beat over 50% of middle class voters before the EU referendum was in October and February 1974 when over 50% of ABC1 voters voted Tory and over 50% of C2DE voters voted Labour.
In 1997 only 41% of ABC1 voters voted Tory ie well under 50%
But this must make it less likely that he makes it to the election.
If you treat 97 as a referendum on Blair then exactly the same thing holds - a majority of C2DEs defeated a majority of ABC1s.
Even the one which he was ‘iffy’ about came home!
Hat tip!!!!!!!!
And I’ll give greater weight to his opinion in future.!
titters....
https://twitter.com/timdwelly/status/888878772899938305
It's absolutely horrible the stuff you can find out online about people. A few years ago there was an American white supremacist who fell into the news, and the fact that he had a lonely hearts ad was mentioned. A few bits of googling and archive.org and I ended up looking at his ad. It was a bit sad and scary: in one of his pictures he had his top off and he was a bit threatening (you wouldn't reply unless you like rough men). But although his text was inchoate, rambling and on the cusp of violence he was also a person trying to form a relationship, and I wasn't comfortable with exposing him. It may sound funny, but people have a right to private lives. So I just left it there.
Or is it yet another case of doctors looking after their own and not worrying about others?
That may sound bitter, but it’s bitter experience.
It was not the first time the doctor had been pulled up fir this particular behaviour but the nurses needed my testimony to prompt action. The status imbalance makes it very difficult for nurses.
Oh. That was Grenfell Tower in the UK. When the tragedy is somewhere else it’s seemingly okay for it to take a year or two for a full engineering investigation and report, that primarily seeks to avoid a repetition more than it seeks to apportion blame, as with any other plane or train crash.
In weird news for today, a man crashes his employer's plane into his own home, after being released from jail for domestic abuse. Fortunately there were no other casualties:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-plane-crash-duane-youd-cessna-home-dies-released-from-jail-today-2018-08-13/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/14/corbyn-wreath-terror-victims-memorial-israel-palestinian
These people are so idiotic and they surround him.
Time he was called out by labour mps
Two nurses involved, one cleared, one found guilty and subsequently struck off.
Merely anecdotally (with usual warnings) but retention and recruitment of workers is becoming more difficult yet resistance to general pay rises is continuing.
Even in companies which are making good profits.
Aside from the recruitment difficulties this brings I suspect it also makes workers steadily more disgruntled with consequent reductions in productivity.
So a false economy IMO.
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NEW: Dr. Mohammad Shtayyeh, a Palestinian Authority Minister who was pictured with @jeremycorbyn at the cemetery in Tunis in 2014, endorses the Labour leader’s account of the wreath laying ceremony
Bad luck
What if Corbyn is not as good as you think he is? What if he might have got this wrong? What if he has declining reach outside his own core? Would you consider, maybe - and go with me on this - someone else as Labour leader? Someone capable of reuniting the party.
Would guarantee a Tory Government for another decade.
Corbyn got 40% at GE 2017
After BREXIT I am confident that will increase at the next GE.
Of course SDP2 would bugger that up well and truly.
The Blairites have nothing to offer not a popular policy
idea between them IMO
The Forth Bridge problems of a couple of years ago with the cracked truss link may be an example. From memory, they knew there was a potential problem there, and they had plans to replace the connections. However works can cause massive disruption, and there is only so much budget, and they were not replaced. This resulted in a (thankfully minor) failure.
Hence an engineering issue becomes an operational and budgetary one, and hence ultimately a political one.
People think of the cost of building structures, but rarely consider that as they age they need increasing amounts of maintenance. And maintenance is fundamentally unsexy, especially when compared to a shiny new structure.
In 1992, roughly even numbers of people are eurosceptic and europhile. By 2017, eurosceptics outnumber europhiles by about 4 to 1.
At the moment, public opinion on EU membership is about where it was on 22nd June 2016, but it remains very eurosceptic.
Might you be so kind as to wait until I'm on the site before you make comments for my benefit.
As to the issue there are more people employed in agriculture than before the Referendum and as we know the supermarkets are overflowing with soft fruit.
Now perhaps there are shortages in Scotland but that sounds like a problem caused by the parsimony of Scottish farmers and is for them and Holyrood to deal with.
People told us he was unpopular before GE2017 and Labour would lose about 100 seats we had the biggest increase in support since WW2
Go with me on this. Will require some serious mental gymnastics on your part, but try.
What if Corbyn is as good as I and a lot of the 40% that voted for us think he is?
What if you might have got this wrong like in 2017?
What if he has an original popular Manifesto that reach outside the 40% core at GE2022?
Would you consider, maybe - and go with me on this - keeping him as Labour leader until GE2022 and uniting behind him and throwing everything at beating the Tories next time unlike in 2017?
If he fails after a united party effort to win in 2022 we elect someone else capable of uniting the party after a 4th defeat in a row.
Regards Comrade
"According to LeMessurier, in 1978 an undergraduate architecture student contacted him with a bold claim about LeMessurier’s building: that Citicorp Center could blow over in the wind.
The student (who has since been lost to history) was studying Citicorp Center and had found that the building was particularly vulnerable to quartering winds (winds that strike the building at its corners). Normally, buildings are strongest at their corners, and it’s the perpendicular winds (winds that strike the building at its faces) that cause the greatest strain. But this was not a normal building.
LeMessurier had accounted for the perpendicular winds, but not the quartering winds. He checked the math and found that the student was right. He compared what velocity winds the building could withstand with weather data and found that a storm strong enough to topple Citicorp Center hits New York City every 55 years."
It was actually worse than that - it was every 16 years. And they fixed the building without anyone finding out!
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2014/04/17/the_citicorp_tower_design_flaw_that_could_have_wiped_out_the_skyscraper.html
Edit: and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citigroup_Center#Engineering_crisis_of_1978
Just how much work has Boris been actually putting in on the ground with backbench MPs, and more importantly in their constituencies among their activists over the last couple of years? Gove on the other hand, even turned up at short notice to help out the local Scottish Conservatives in Aberdeenshire recently while on a private family holiday in Aberdeen. I said it at the time, and I will say it again, Gove took a political bullet for the party in stopping Boris last time. And while it may have cost him politically in the short term, Gove's stock is now considerable higher than it was in the first days, weeks and months after May was elected. And while Nadine Dorries might be Boris's number one female fan, Boris really does have a more general problem among female Conservatives including me.
In the short term, Boris the Maverick has managed to garner the support of uber Brexiteers angry at May's Chequers deal by simple resigning and writing a couple of articles. Meanwhile, most Conservative MPs seem determined to hang onto May until Brexit is delivered, especially if the alternative is Boris. But what about the soon to be post Brexit period of UK politics, just what could a failed Foreign Secretary bring to a Conservative party trying to steer the economy through this period and then onto winning the next GE? Just like that previous favourite Davis proved not to be the answer to the party winning power again, I suspect that even the grassroots will realise Boris is not the answer when it comes to the party hanging onto power.
A worldwide problem as this story in the BBC today shows:
' Lawrence Okettayot is on a road trip across Uganda.
He's spreading the word about a device he's created which could be a solution to Africa's food waste crisis.
Food wasted every year in the continent could feed up to 300 million people, according to the United Nations. In just Uganda alone, up to 40% of fruit and vegetables end up being discarded. '
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44579530
Perhaps 'no strawberry left behind' is the new clarion call from metropolitan remainers.
Sounds like it could be the basis of a Pixar film to me.
He claims in the video to have 'totally condemned' what happened in 1972. Now I don't imagine he was other than appalled, but did he actually 'totally condemn' these actions. I think he's lying. I would suggest he did no such thing.
There is something deeply wrong with Jeremy Corbyn.
If he wants the enthusiastic support of the whole party, he - as leader - needs to reach out and give people a reason to vote for him. He needs to stop super serving his core.
He could start by condemning people who attack -so called - Blairites and celebrate the achievements of 97-10 and respect the efforts of people that actually won.
Wiki says it cost nearly $200 to build - the insurance payout of a disaster would have been enormous.
If it had been some nobody rather than Ben Stokes fighting in Bristol would the authorities have brought the case ?
NEW THREAD and there's a first going.
http://www.onlineethics.org/Topics/ProfPractice/Exemplars/BehavingWell/lemesindex/DianeHartley.aspx#publicationContent