The exit poll is very clear and in my view a good result although it is important to put in place a sensible alternative as abortion is always a "least worst" measure and best avoided where practicable.
The Fine Gael proposal will still make it pretty restrictive by the standards of here or rest of Europe. 12 weeks iirc.
It is actually still technically quite strict in the UK, doctors are not allowed to approve abortion on demand but only if a risk to the 'physical or mental health' of the mother without one.
That is stricter even than in the USA post Roe v Wade for example. In NI abortion is also still illegal
And does anyone believe that the law here is actually applied?
I did an exercise years ago where we were given the abortion law (Back in about 1993) at school and had to decide if we would abort (If we were doctors in theory) in a scenario. We stuck to the law as it was written (And said we wouldn't), our teacher then told us apparently we were wrong and that most doctors would abort in that scenario.
I think most people would be surprised to learn that we don't technically have abortion on demand.
No, but the number is quite a high fraction of the birth rate.
2016 births: 770,000 2016 abortions: 190,000
I saw JRM on the Daily Politics earlier this week and whilst I'm a pragmatist about this subject, I agree with him that this is a very sad state of affairs.
It is a higher rate than most of Western Europe, but lower than Eastern Europe. Western Europe does have a lower rate than most parts of the world, even than the USA, despite restrictive and punitive laws:
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Though more Catholics are born in Africa every year than the entire population of Ireland.
Outside of Poland and Italy Europe is increasingly secular, after a Latin American Pope I would not be surprised if there is an African Pope next as that is where the growth areas for Catholicism are
As a secularist I cannot give thanks to God that I live in a secular age.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
How can you ensure Gove will be caretaker though? Davidson might be the best candidate to beat Corbyn, Gove is probably one of the worst for all his brains
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
What were they thinking of, by doing so?
Throwing out paedophiles should have been a no-brainer.
Protecting the institution was what mattered rather than dealing with a crime and a sin. It was the same MO when priests had relationships with women and children.
Shameful.
I feel conflicted about abortion. It is the taking of a life; it is an act freighted with moral significance and emphatically not the same as removing a tooth. I could not do it myself.
But it should be safe and legal ....... and rarer than it is. With the widespread availability of contraception, it does not seem great that there are such large numbers of abortions.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
How can you ensure Gove will be caretaker though? Davidson might be the best candidate to beat Corbyn, Gove is probably one of the worst for all his brains
Especially when it relies on Michael Gove stepping aside for someone he considers more able. I think I may have spotted the flaw.
But I had a major wobble around a week before the vote and wavered... In fact I could quite easily have voted REMAIN - So I was a shy and wavering LEAVER
I've become more LEAVE since the referendum due to the behaviour of the EU and Remainers here,
Now I would vote leave in a heartbeat. I find it truly remarkable that anyone paying attention would want to remain in the EU. I mean, have you not seen how they have behaved?
It’s funny to read this because my view is the precise opposite. How can anyone, seeing the collapse of the entire Brexiter manifesto, confidently vote Leave? I do not absolve the EU of error and stupidity during negotiations, but it’s irrelevant in a way. It all follows from our vote.
I find the idea that anyone would want to be in a club with that shower of shits really extraordinary.
With them? No.
Without them? Hell yes. And they won't be around for ever.
So you are working on the assumption that the next generation of EU leadership will be better than the last 5? A triumph of hope over experience?
It's more that I think the current situation isn't sustainable. They need people of talent and with popular support to turn this mess around. If the EU is to survive, therefore, they will have to go. And if the likes of Selmayr stay, the EU will implode anyway so this whole farrago is unnecessary.
Germany doesn’t. They need a shower of incompetents who will do what they are told when they are told. Read Varofakis “Adults in the Room”. It is self serving in parts but it’s description of how the EU actually operates is appalling.
That would be the Varafoukis who recommends, er, staying in the EU?
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
On the latter point, no study has been able to back that up. Not saying it’s untrue, just that there’s no evidence for it.
How can you ensure Gove will be caretaker though? Davidson might be the best candidate to beat Corbyn, Gove is probably one of the worst for all his brains
Especially when it relies on Michael Gove stepping aside for someone he considers more able. I think I may have spotted the flaw.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
What were they thinking of, by doing so?
Throwing out paedophiles should have been a no-brainer.
Protecting the institution was what mattered rather than dealing with a crime and a sin. It was the same MO when priests had relationships with women and children.
Shameful.
I feel conflicted about abortion. It is the taking of a life; it is an act freighted with moral significance and emphatically not the same as removing a tooth. I could not do it myself.
But it should be safe and legal ....... and rarer than it is. With the widespread availability of contraception, it does not seem great that there are such large numbers of abortions.
Though the same could be said of many boarding schools, even the BBC and some of our political parties, it was not just the Catholic Church who had problems with child abuse
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Not to mention the Magdalen laundries, etc.
Indeed. Turns out rather a lot of Christians are not very nice people after all.
But I had a major wobble around a week before the vote and wavered... In fact I could quite easily have voted REMAIN - So I was a shy and wavering LEAVER
I've become more LEAVE since the referendum due to the behaviour of the EU and Remainers here,
Now I would vote leave in a heartbeat. I find it truly remarkable that anyone paying attention would want to remain in the EU. I mean, have you not seen how they have behaved?
It’s funny to read this because my view is the precise opposite. How can anyone, seeing the collapse of the entire Brexiter manifesto, confidently vote Leave? I do not absolve the EU of error and stupidity during negotiations, but it’s irrelevant in a way. It all follows from our vote.
I find the idea that anyone would want to be in a club with that shower of shits really extraordinary.
With them? No.
Without them? Hell yes. And they won't be around for ever.
So you are working on the assumption that the next generation of EU leadership will be better than the last 5? A triumph of hope over experience?
It's more that I think the current situation isn't sustainable. They need people of talent and with popular support to turn this mess around. If the EU is to survive, therefore, they will have to go. And if the likes of Selmayr stay, the EU will implode anyway so this whole farrago is unnecessary.
Germany doesn’t. They need a shower of incompetents who will do what they are told when they are told. Read Varofakis “Adults in the Room”. It is self serving in parts but it’s description of how the EU actually operates is appalling.
That would be the Varafoukis who recommends, er, staying in the EU?
Yep. That’s the one. Thought somewhat naively that we could help protect the Greeks from the Germans, despite his own experience.
But I had a major wobble around a week before the vote and wavered... In fact I could quite easily have voted REMAIN - So I was a shy and wavering LEAVER
I've become more LEAVE since the referendum due to the behaviour of the EU and Remainers here,
Now I would vote leave in a heartbeat. I find it truly remarkable that anyone paying attention would want to remain in the EU. I mean, have you not seen how they have behaved?
It’s funny to read this because my view is the precise opposite. How can anyone, seeing the collapse of the entire Brexiter manifesto, confidently vote Leave? I do not absolve the EU of error and stupidity during negotiations, but it’s irrelevant in a way. It all follows from our vote.
I find the idea that anyone would want to be in a club with that shower of shits really extraordinary.
With them? No.
Without them? Hell yes. And they won't be around for ever.
So you are working on the assumption that the next generation of EU leadership will be better than the last 5? A triumph of hope over experience?
It's more that I think the current situation isn't sustainable. They need people of talent and with popular support to turn this mess around. If the EU is to survive, therefore, they will have to go. And if the likes of Selmayr stay, the EU will implode anyway so this whole farrago is unnecessary.
Germany doesn’t. They need a shower of incompetents who will do what they are told when they are told. Read Varofakis “Adults in the Room”. It is self serving in parts but it’s description of how the EU actually operates is appalling.
That would be the Varafoukis who recommends, er, staying in the EU?
Only on the basis that he believes we should fight to change the rotten organisation from within. On that point I disagree with him.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
What were they thinking of, by doing so?
Throwing out paedophiles should have been a no-brainer.
Protecting the institution was what mattered rather than dealing with a crime and a sin. It was the same MO when priests had relationships with women and children.
Shameful.
I feel conflicted about abortion. It is the taking of a life; it is an act freighted with moral significance and emphatically not the same as removing a tooth. I could not do it myself.
But it should be safe and legal ....... and rarer than it is. With the widespread availability of contraception, it does not seem great that there are such large numbers of abortions.
As I said yesterday, I respect a woman’s right to choose. But the fact that 190k choose an abortion every year is deeply troubling.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Not to mention the Magdalen laundries, etc.
Indeed. Turns out rather a lot of Christians are not very nice people after all.
Neither are all atheists, see Stalin and Hitler and Mao
But I had a major wobble around a week before the vote and wavered... In fact I could quite easily have voted REMAIN - So I was a shy and wavering LEAVER
I've become more LEAVE since the referendum due to the behaviour of the EU and Remainers here,
Now I would vote leave in a heartbeat. I find it truly remarkable that anyone paying attention would want to remain in the EU. I mean, have you not seen how they have behaved?
It’s funny to read this because my view is the precise opposite. How can anyone, seeing the collapse of the entire Brexiter manifesto, confidently vote Leave? I do not absolve the EU of error and stupidity during negotiations, but it’s irrelevant in a way. It all follows from our vote.
I find the idea that anyone would want to be in a club with that shower of shits really extraordinary.
With them? No.
Without them? Hell yes. And they won't be around for ever.
So you are working on the assumption that the next generation of EU leadership will be better than the last 5? A triumph of hope over experience?
It's more that I think the current situation isn't sustainable. They need people of talent and with popular support to turn this mess around. If the EU is to survive, therefore, they will have to go. And if the likes of Selmayr stay, the EU will implode anyway so this whole farrago is unnecessary.
Germany doesn’t. They need a shower of incompetents who will do what they are told when they are told. Read Varofakis “Adults in the Room”. It is self serving in parts but it’s description of how the EU actually operates is appalling.
That would be the Varafoukis who recommends, er, staying in the EU?
Only on the basis that he believes we should fight to change the rotten organisation from within. On that point I disagree with him.
The choice is either to fight from within, or obey the rotters from outside.
Brexit is defeat and retreat, dressed up as a great patriotic mission.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
On the latter point, no study has been able to back that up. Not saying it’s untrue, just that there’s no evidence for it.
While we have access to 100m low wage workers from E Europe it’s going to increase supply and depress prices (wages). I don’t need a think tank to tell me. The wailing from farmers and catering gives me a good belly laugh. “ How will we cope?”. Well pay people more. And when your effectively limitless supply of cheap labour is cut off, develop a business model that accommodates that. Or go bust. Tough.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Not to mention the Magdalen laundries, etc.
Indeed. Turns out rather a lot of Christians are not very nice people after all.
We are all sinners, that is why it is important not to be too judgemental and forgive others, whether you believe in sky fairies or not
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
What were they thinking of, by doing so?
Throwing out paedophiles should have been a no-brainer.
The human urge to protect members of the tribe is a strong one: look how some good police have covered up the corruption of others.
But I had a major wobble around a week before the vote and wavered... In fact I could quite easily have voted REMAIN - So I was a shy and wavering LEAVER
I've become more LEAVE since the referendum due to the behaviour of the EU and Remainers here,
Now I would vote leave in a heartbeat. I find it truly remarkable that anyone paying attention would want to remain in the EU. I mean, have you not seen how they have behaved?
It’s funny to read this because my view is the precise opposite. How can anyone, seeing the collapse of the entire Brexiter manifesto, confidently vote Leave? I do not absolve the EU of error and stupidity during negotiations, but it’s irrelevant in a way. It all follows from our vote.
I find the idea that anyone would want to be in a club with that shower of shits really extraordinary.
With them? No.
Without them? Hell yes. And they won't be around for ever.
So you are working on the assumption that the next generation of EU leadership will be better than the last 5? A triumph of hope over experience?
It's more that I think the current situation isn't sustainable. They need people of talent and with popular support to turn this mess around. If the EU is to survive, therefore, they will have to go. And if the likes of Selmayr stay, the EU will implode anyway so this whole farrago is unnecessary.
Germany doesn’t. They need a shower of incompetents who will do what they are told when they are told. Read Varofakis “Adults in the Room”. It is self serving in parts but it’s description of how the EU actually operates is appalling.
That would be the Varafoukis who recommends, er, staying in the EU?
Only on the basis that he believes we should fight to change the rotten organisation from within. On that point I disagree with him.
The choice is either to fight from within, or obey the rotters from outside.
Brexit is defeat and retreat, dressed up as a great patriotic mission.
But I had a major wobble around a week before the vote and wavered... In fact I could quite easily have voted REMAIN - So I was a shy and wavering LEAVER
I've become more LEAVE since the referendum due to the behaviour of the EU and Remainers here,
Now I would vote leave in a heartbeat. I find it truly remarkable that anyone paying attention would want to remain in the EU. I mean, have you not seen how they have behaved?
It’s funny to read this because my view is the precise opposite. How can anyone, seeing the collapse of the entire Brexiter manifesto, confidently vote Leave? I do not absolve the EU of error and stupidity during negotiations, but it’s irrelevant in a way. It all follows from our vote.
I find the idea that anyone would want to be in a club with that shower of shits really extraordinary.
With them? No.
Without them? Hell yes. And they won't be around for ever.
So you are working on the assumption that the next generation of EU leadership will be better than the last 5? A triumph of hope over experience?
It's more that I think the current situation isn't sustainable. They need people of talent and with popular support to turn this mess around. If the EU is to survive, therefore, they will have to go. And if the likes of Selmayr stay, the EU will implode anyway so this whole farrago is unnecessary.
Germany doesn’t. They need a shower of incompetents who will do what they are told when they are told. Read Varofakis “Adults in the Room”. It is self serving in parts but it’s description of how the EU actually operates is appalling.
That would be the Varafoukis who recommends, er, staying in the EU?
Only on the basis that he believes we should fight to change the rotten organisation from within. On that point I disagree with him.
But aren’t you Varoufakis? You certainly look like him.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Not to mention the Magdalen laundries, etc.
My uncle in law came to the UK as a baby with his mother from rural Ireland, in the 1930's to live as an unmarried mother in the relatively tolerant environment in London. He probably escaped the horror of Tuam or similar, and his mother the Magdalen laundries.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Not to mention the Magdalen laundries, etc.
Indeed. Turns out rather a lot of Christians are not very nice people after all.
Neither are all atheists, see Stalin and Hitler and Mao
Undoubtedly. I think the song goes I’m only human after all, but there is plenty of blame to go around.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Not to mention the Magdalen laundries, etc.
Indeed. Turns out rather a lot of Christians are not very nice people after all.
We are all sinners, that is why it is important not to be too judgemental and forgive others, whether you believe in sky fairies or not
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
So? How would it affect me? I export things for a living. What’s your solution we just keep importing limitless numbers? Till when? When we don’t exist any more? Where’s the limit????
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
On the latter point, no study has been able to back that up. Not saying it’s untrue, just that there’s no evidence for it.
While we have access to 100m low wage workers from E Europe it’s going to increase supply and depress prices (wages). I don’t need a think tank to tell me. The wailing from farmers and catering gives me a good belly laugh. “ How will we cope?”. Well pay people more. And when your effectively limitless supply of cheap labour is cut off, develop a business model that accommodates that. Or go bust. Tough.
I cope in my business.
I tend to find Eastern European labour more reliable than British, regardless of price.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Not to mention the Magdalen laundries, etc.
My uncle in law came to the UK as a baby with his mother from rural Ireland, in the 1930's to live as an unmarried mother in the relatively tolerant environment in London. He probably escaped the horror of Tuam or similar, and his mother the Magdalen laundries.
She made the right decision, and he remains an active Catholic, and worked all his life as a childrens social worker.
Probably nowadays she would have had an abortion in similar circumstances. Difficult issues all round.
Well indeed. However, thankfully, the option of being a single-parent would also be available today. Although, not admittedly ideal. But who is perfect?
Another election which on present polls would produce almost exactly the same result as the last one?
Well, quite. Maybe things would alter with the reality of another election concentrating minds, but given noone but none of the UK wide parties has a coherent plan on Brexit other than the LDs (and I'm not too sure about that, actually) I don't see where this belief another election will help resolve matters has come from. The last election caused the logjam (well some of it anyway), why would another one clear it?
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
Can you infer that from those numbers? I thought it’d be quite a complicated calculation to work out the net effect on GDP growth figures.
Simply this... Q1 2018 GDP growth = 0.1%; Q1 2018 GDP growth per head = -0.1%. Take away the extra heads and the economy is shrinking.
The assumption built into that is that the 411k Roumanians contributed an average amount to our output. I wouldn’t assume that of the dozens begging on the streets of Edinburgh for a start.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
On the latter point, no study has been able to back that up. Not saying it’s untrue, just that there’s no evidence for it.
While we have access to 100m low wage workers from E Europe it’s going to increase supply and depress prices (wages). I don’t need a think tank to tell me. The wailing from farmers and catering gives me a good belly laugh. “ How will we cope?”. Well pay people more. And when your effectively limitless supply of cheap labour is cut off, develop a business model that accommodates that. Or go bust. Tough.
I cope in my business.
I tend to find Eastern European labour more reliable than British, regardless of price.
So sod the locals then? What did they do to deserve that? Classic “I’m alright Jack” and screw the Brits with two CSEs who live in Stoke.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
That plan sees overly complicated and reliant on luck and continued support during turbulent years to come. What if the Tories do poorly in Holyrood in 2021, Davidson's stock would immediately plummet, and even if they do well what if she didn't then win a seat in 2022? And that's not counting all the steps years ahead of those steps.
Another election which on present polls would produce almost exactly the same result as the last one?
Well, quite. Maybe things would alter with the reality of another election concentrating minds, but given noone but none of the UK wide parties has a coherent plan on Brexit other than the LDs (and I'm not too sure about that, actually) I don't see where this belief another election will help resolve matters has come from. The last election caused the logjam (well some of it anyway), why would another one clear it?
Exactly, the country is just as divided on Brexit and Corbyn as Parliament is now, which is why we have a hung Parliament in the first place
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Not to mention the Magdalen laundries, etc.
Indeed. Turns out rather a lot of Christians are not very nice people after all.
Neither are all atheists, see Stalin and Hitler and Mao
Undoubtedly. I think the song goes I’m only human after all, but there is plenty of blame to go around.
Well we might not all be human - I've a sneaking suspicion I am actually a bot.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
Can you infer that from those numbers? I thought it’d be quite a complicated calculation to work out the net effect on GDP growth figures.
Simply this... Q1 2018 GDP growth = 0.1%; Q1 2018 GDP growth per head = -0.1%. Take away the extra heads and the economy is shrinking.
The assumption built into that is that the 411k Roumanians contributed an average amount to our output. I wouldn’t assume that of the dozens begging on the streets of Edinburgh for a start.
I’ve been impressed by the Rumanians I’ve met and employed.
But there a certain problem with begging, for sure. And, I can remember when Big Issue salesman were British. This doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.
Not sure what the answer is, but my first instinct would be to try to address the issue directly rather than a threaten the entire economy and our geopolitical standing.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
Can you infer that from those numbers? I thought it’d be quite a complicated calculation to work out the net effect on GDP growth figures.
Simply this... Q1 2018 GDP growth = 0.1%; Q1 2018 GDP growth per head = -0.1%. Take away the extra heads and the economy is shrinking.
The assumption built into that is that the 411k Roumanians contributed an average amount to our output. I wouldn’t assume that of the dozens begging on the streets of Edinburgh for a start.
As a point of detail, Roma and Romanian are not synonyms, but in any case, what gives you the right to judge over 400k people from a few you see in the street?
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
That plan sees overly complicated and reliant on luck and continued support during turbulent years to come. What if the Tories do poorly in Holyrood in 2021, Davidson's stock would immediately plummet, and even if they do well what if she didn't then win a seat in 2022? And that's not counting all the steps years ahead of those steps.
Nor has Davidson ever had a job in government.
Now that also applies to some Opposition politicians when they first take power but at least the Opposition will have put forward its policies at a general election.
What are Davidson's policies ?
1) End WFA in England and Wales but keep it in Scotland 2) Build endless numbers of new new towns (location and funding not revealed) 3) Errr
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
Can you infer that from those numbers? I thought it’d be quite a complicated calculation to work out the net effect on GDP growth figures.
Simply this... Q1 2018 GDP growth = 0.1%; Q1 2018 GDP growth per head = -0.1%. Take away the extra heads and the economy is shrinking.
The assumption built into that is that the 411k Roumanians contributed an average amount to our output. I wouldn’t assume that of the dozens begging on the streets of Edinburgh for a start.
I’ve been impressed by the Rumanians I’ve met and employed.
But there a certain problem with begging, for sure. And, I can remember when Big Issue salesman were British. This doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.
Not sure what the answer is, but my first instinct would be to try to address the issue directly rather than a threaten the entire economy and our geopolitical standing.
You’ve said this before. Most of us agree. The EU said no.
There’s your problem. The only way we get control is to go the whole hog, because the EU are paranoid that removing one stick is “kerplunk” on their whole system. They are wrong of course, but we are where we are.
Out: or join the Austria Hungarian empire of the 21st century.
That will lead to violent resistance eventually. Maybe not in my lifetime, but that is how it will play out sadly.
That plan sees overly complicated and reliant on luck and continued support during turbulent years to come. What if the Tories do poorly in Holyrood in 2021, Davidson's stock would immediately plummet, and even if they do well what if she didn't then win a seat in 2022? And that's not counting all the steps years ahead of those steps.
Nor has Davidson ever had a job in government.
Now that also applies to some Opposition politicians when they first take power but at least the Opposition will have put forward its policies at a general election.
What are Davidson's policies ?
1) End WFA in England and Wales but keep it in Scotland 2) Build endless numbers of new new towns (location and funding not revealed) 3) Errr
Davidson has that rare property for a prominent Tory, she has charisma.
That plan sees overly complicated and reliant on luck and continued support during turbulent years to come. What if the Tories do poorly in Holyrood in 2021, Davidson's stock would immediately plummet, and even if they do well what if she didn't then win a seat in 2022? And that's not counting all the steps years ahead of those steps.
Nor has Davidson ever had a job in government.
Now that also applies to some Opposition politicians when they first take power but at least the Opposition will have put forward its policies at a general election.
What are Davidson's policies ?
1) End WFA in England and Wales but keep it in Scotland 2) Build endless numbers of new new towns (location and funding not revealed) 3) Errr
Well she'd have a number of years to take on more prominence and try to set out what her actual plans would be, but yes, those are further stumbling blocks. Though I do think the Holyrood 2021 performance is potentially the most critical. I like what I've seen of Davidson, limited though that is admittedly, but clearly she would look silly to abandon Holyrood for Westminster without being able to do so from a position of having built a solid Tory foundation, passing that on to someone else to take forward further as she seeks to help the whole UK and not just Scotland now she has achieved something. But a poor showing and that chance goes begging, and can it really be certain she will do well in 2021? I cannot think so, particularly as the party fortunes may be impacted by events beyond her control or ability to mitigate.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
Can you infer that from those numbers? I thought it’d be quite a complicated calculation to work out the net effect on GDP growth figures.
Simply this... Q1 2018 GDP growth = 0.1%; Q1 2018 GDP growth per head = -0.1%. Take away the extra heads and the economy is shrinking.
The assumption built into that is that the 411k Roumanians contributed an average amount to our output. I wouldn’t assume that of the dozens begging on the streets of Edinburgh for a start.
I’ve been impressed by the Rumanians I’ve met and employed.
But there a certain problem with begging, for sure. And, I can remember when Big Issue salesman were British. This doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.
Not sure what the answer is, but my first instinct would be to try to address the issue directly rather than a threaten the entire economy and our geopolitical standing.
You’ve said this before. Most of us agree. The EU said no.
There’s your problem. The only way we get control is to go the whole hog, because the EU are paranoid that removing one stick is “kerplunk” on their whole system. They are wrong of course, but we are where we are.
Out: or join the Austria Hungarian empire of the 21st century.
That will lead to violent resistance eventually. Maybe not in my lifetime, but that is how it will play out sadly.
The only problem with this analogy is that Austria-Hungary was a better place for most of its nationalities and religious groups than its successor states.
Apparently there’s another exit poll by RTE coming at 11:30pm. On Twitter they’re saying the Irish Times called it right the last two times (ref and GE) with their exit polls.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
Can you infer that from those numbers? I thought it’d be quite a complicated calculation to work out the net effect on GDP growth figures.
Simply this... Q1 2018 GDP growth = 0.1%; Q1 2018 GDP growth per head = -0.1%. Take away the extra heads and the economy is shrinking.
The assumption built into that is that the 411k Roumanians contributed an average amount to our output. I wouldn’t assume that of the dozens begging on the streets of Edinburgh for a start.
I take your point (and @another_richard and @MaxPB) but assuming net migration in Q1 was at 2017 levels that's 244k p.a. That's 60k per quarter. If you take away those 60k people (i.e. 0.1% of the population) do you really think we'd have seen any growth in Q1?
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
Can you infer that from those numbers? I thought it’d be quite a complicated calculation to work out the net effect on GDP growth figures.
Simply this... Q1 2018 GDP growth = 0.1%; Q1 2018 GDP growth per head = -0.1%. Take away the extra heads and the economy is shrinking.
The assumption built into that is that the 411k Roumanians contributed an average amount to our output. I wouldn’t assume that of the dozens begging on the streets of Edinburgh for a start.
I’ve been impressed by the Rumanians I’ve met and employed.
But there a certain problem with begging, for sure. And, I can remember when Big Issue salesman were British. This doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.
Not sure what the answer is, but my first instinct would be to try to address the issue directly rather than a threaten the entire economy and our geopolitical standing.
Yes, the Romanian Doctors and Nurses that I work with are great colleagues, and very industrious.
We could have modified our welfare system to get past scan self employment selling the Big Issue if our government wanted.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Not to mention the Magdalen laundries, etc.
Indeed. Turns out rather a lot of Christians are not very nice people after all.
Neither are all atheists, see Stalin and Hitler and Mao
Undoubtedly. I think the song goes I’m only human after all, but there is plenty of blame to go around.
Well we might not all be human - I've a sneaking suspicion I am actually a bot.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
Can you infer that from those numbers? I thought it’d be quite a complicated calculation to work out the net effect on GDP growth figures.
Simply this... Q1 2018 GDP growth = 0.1%; Q1 2018 GDP growth per head = -0.1%. Take away the extra heads and the economy is shrinking.
The assumption built into that is that the 411k Roumanians contributed an average amount to our output. I wouldn’t assume that of the dozens begging on the streets of Edinburgh for a start.
I’ve been impressed by the Rumanians I’ve met and employed.
But there a certain problem with begging, for sure. And, I can remember when Big Issue salesman were British. This doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.
Not sure what the answer is, but my first instinct would be to try to address the issue directly rather than a threaten the entire economy and our geopolitical standing.
Yes, the Romanian Doctors and Nurses that I work with are great colleagues, and very industrious.
We could have modified our welfare system to get past scan self employment selling the Big Issue if our government wanted.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Not to mention the Magdalen laundries, etc.
Indeed. Turns out rather a lot of Christians are not very nice people after all.
Neither are all atheists, see Stalin and Hitler and Mao
Undoubtedly. I think the song goes I’m only human after all, but there is plenty of blame to go around.
Well we might not all be human - I've a sneaking suspicion I am actually a bot.
What, like kle3?
A lesser, earlier version of the program, no doubt, too obviously spotted.
I still think there'll be a touch of shy 'no' for the exit poll so perhaps 67% in favour of repeal.
For whatever reason it seems the polls for this were much much better than they were for the gay marriage referendum.
That’s what I thought when predicting 2:1 a few days ago. But the days of the Catholic Church having a major say in Eire ended when they were found to protect and hide peodophiles. All moral authority has been lost.
Not to mention the Magdalen laundries, etc.
Indeed. Turns out rather a lot of Christians are not very nice people after all.
Neither are all atheists, see Stalin and Hitler and Mao
Undoubtedly. I think the song goes I’m only human after all, but there is plenty of blame to go around.
Well we might not all be human - I've a sneaking suspicion I am actually a bot.
I'm actually posting from my dacha overlooking my troll farm outside the Russian spa town of Novosunilsk
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
Can you infer that from those numbers? I thought it’d be quite a complicated calculation to work out the net effect on GDP growth figures.
Simply this... Q1 2018 GDP growth = 0.1%; Q1 2018 GDP growth per head = -0.1%. Take away the extra heads and the economy is shrinking.
The assumption built into that is that the 411k Roumanians contributed an average amount to our output. I wouldn’t assume that of the dozens begging on the streets of Edinburgh for a start.
I take your point (and @another_richard and @MaxPB) but assuming net migration in Q1 was at 2017 levels that's 244k p.a. That's 60k per quarter. If you take away those 60k people (i.e. 0.1% of the population) do you really think we'd have seen any growth in Q1?
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
Can you infer that from those numbers? I thought it’d be quite a complicated calculation to work out the net effect on GDP growth figures.
Simply this... Q1 2018 GDP growth = 0.1%; Q1 2018 GDP growth per head = -0.1%. Take away the extra heads and the economy is shrinking.
The assumption built into that is that the 411k Roumanians contributed an average amount to our output. I wouldn’t assume that of the dozens begging on the streets of Edinburgh for a start.
I’ve been impressed by the Rumanians I’ve met and employed.
But there a certain problem with begging, for sure. And, I can remember when Big Issue salesman were British. This doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.
Not sure what the answer is, but my first instinct would be to try to address the issue directly rather than a threaten the entire economy and our geopolitical standing.
Yes, the Romanian Doctors and Nurses that I work with are great colleagues, and very industrious.
We could have modified our welfare system to get past scan self employment selling the Big Issue if our government wanted.
I would cheer this on. Blair could’ve done it in 2004 with his 150+ majority. Since then the hand wringers would’ve blocked such reform.
A headline on AOL based on ONS figures says there are now 411k Rumanians in the U.K. compared to 350k Irish. Who thought that this was a good idea?
Presumably 411k Romanians.
Ha ha. What about the rest of us?
It’s fucking bonkers.
It's affected you how exactly?
Well it’s probably put the price of my house up. But I don’t care about that but others do, because it affects them adversely. It’s certainly put the price of accommodation up for family members in N W London. I also object to being asked for the umpteenth bleeding time if I want my car washed every time I buy a tin of beans.
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
Can you infer that from those numbers? I thought it’d be quite a complicated calculation to work out the net effect on GDP growth figures.
Simply this... Q1 2018 GDP growth = 0.1%; Q1 2018 GDP growth per head = -0.1%. Take away the extra heads and the economy is shrinking.
The assumption built into that is that the 411k Roumanians contributed an average amount to our output. I wouldn’t assume that of the dozens begging on the streets of Edinburgh for a start.
I’ve been impressed by the Rumanians I’ve met and employed.
But there a certain problem with begging, for sure. And, I can remember when Big Issue salesman were British. This doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.
Not sure what the answer is, but my first instinct would be to try to address the issue directly rather than a threaten the entire economy and our geopolitical standing.
Yes, the Romanian Doctors and Nurses that I work with are great colleagues, and very industrious.
We could have modified our welfare system to get past scan self employment selling the Big Issue if our government wanted.
Yes, that is my point. There are surely domestic policies we could pursue, but we don’t because too expensive, too illiberal, etc etc.
Then, people see a foreign Big Issue seller and the next minute they’re voting to pauperise their grandchildren.
It had no consent from those it governed. It ended in violent implosion.
Austria, then the dual monarchy of Austro-Hungary was the dominant power of central Europe for several centuries.
It broke apart in the final days of 1918, but with little violence internally. Indeed the main AH casualties of the AH in WW1 came from fighting the external powers of Italy and Russia, and from the Allies blockade.
This is one of those issues which, on the face of it, is an absolute outrage, but I dare not drill into the detail for fear of immersing myself in alt right lunacy and fake twitter accounts.
Congratulations to Mr Meeks in his house purchase.
BTW in this week of Chelsea, I am going to boast about the fact that I have 14 roses flowering - or beginning to flower - in my garden, along with irises and geums. And my 3 tree ferns survived the winter and have been putting out new fronds. It is such a delight. My little bit of heaven on earth.
Did I tell you my mum won Redbridge in Bloom five times in the last 14 years?
Congratulations to her!
Thanks Cyclefree - hope your garden gives you much joy this summer!
It had no consent from those it governed. It ended in violent implosion.
If that were true, it wouldn’t have sustained 4 years of total war, including battles on its own territory.
It was leaking soldiers the whole time through desertion,?and was propped up by the Germans. Wouldn’t have lasted six months on its own.
It varies very much by front. On the Isonzo the AH fought intensely without morale collapsing.
On the Galician front the story was different, with a catastrophic casualty rate particularly amongst regular army officers in the battles to relieve Przemsyl and the Carpathian campaign. Slavs became increasingly unwilling to fight fellow slavs there, and German officers were needed as replacements.
This is one of those issues which, on the face of it, is an absolute outrage, but I dare not drill into the detail for fear of immersing myself in alt right lunacy and fake twitter accounts.
He was arrested for Contempt of Court, while on a suspended sentence. The 13 months appears to be because of breaching the terms of his previous conviction, rather than the new Contempt charge.
It had no consent from those it governed. It ended in violent implosion.
If that were true, it wouldn’t have sustained 4 years of total war, including battles on its own territory.
It was leaking soldiers the whole time through desertion,?and was propped up by the Germans. Wouldn’t have lasted six months on its own.
Perhaps you can tell us which of its ethnic groups and religions did better after 1918 than before?
It certainly wasn’t a majority.
Depends on defining “better”. The Irish were almost certainly worse off economically for 70 years or more for leaving the U.K. ( they’ve just acquired motorways in the past ten years to any extent for instance), but I doubt many in the 26 counties regretted leaving.
This is one of those issues which, on the face of it, is an absolute outrage, but I dare not drill into the detail for fear of immersing myself in alt right lunacy and fake twitter accounts.
He was arrested for Contempt of Court, while on a suspended sentence. The 13 months appears to be because of breaching the terms of his previous conviction, rather than the new Contempt charge.
This is one of those issues which, on the face of it, is an absolute outrage, but I dare not drill into the detail for fear of immersing myself in alt right lunacy and fake twitter accounts.
He was arrested for Contempt of Court, while on a suspended sentence. The 13 months appears to be because of breaching the terms of his previous conviction, rather than the new Contempt charge.
This is one of those issues which, on the face of it, is an absolute outrage, but I dare not drill into the detail for fear of immersing myself in alt right lunacy and fake twitter accounts.
He was arrested for Contempt of Court, while on a suspended sentence. The 13 months appears to be because of breaching the terms of his previous conviction, rather than the new Contempt charge.
This is one of those issues which, on the face of it, is an absolute outrage, but I dare not drill into the detail for fear of immersing myself in alt right lunacy and fake twitter accounts.
He was arrested for Contempt of Court, while on a suspended sentence. The 13 months appears to be because of breaching the terms of his previous conviction, rather than the new Contempt charge.
It had no consent from those it governed. It ended in violent implosion.
If that were true, it wouldn’t have sustained 4 years of total war, including battles on its own territory.
It was leaking soldiers the whole time through desertion,?and was propped up by the Germans. Wouldn’t have lasted six months on its own.
Perhaps you can tell us which of its ethnic groups and religions did better after 1918 than before?
It certainly wasn’t a majority.
Depends on defining “better”. The Irish were almost certainly worse off economically for 70 years or more for leaving the U.K. ( they’ve just acquired motorways in the past ten years to any extent for instance), but I doubt many in the 26 counties regretted leaving.
And yet, all the nation's of former AH are now either joined into the EU, or are applying to do so. Presumably they realise that they have a lot of common history and culture. Perhaps the EU is not such an evil organisation after all.
This is one of those issues which, on the face of it, is an absolute outrage, but I dare not drill into the detail for fear of immersing myself in alt right lunacy and fake twitter accounts.
He was arrested for Contempt of Court, while on a suspended sentence. The 13 months appears to be because of breaching the terms of his previous conviction, rather than the new Contempt charge.
Just read the twitter thread mentioned down below. Some might Tommy Robinson had it coming, not only his previous EDL stuff but the fact where ever he goes he always seem to end up in a punch-up, but it is really rather worrying...It will also play into Robinson and even more extremists hands for recruitment.
This is one of those issues which, on the face of it, is an absolute outrage, but I dare not drill into the detail for fear of immersing myself in alt right lunacy and fake twitter accounts.
He was arrested for Contempt of Court, while on a suspended sentence. The 13 months appears to be because of breaching the terms of his previous conviction, rather than the new Contempt charge.
The reporting restrictions are in place until the suspect grooming trial is over. Presumably it is at risk of being declared a mistrial and termination.
Just read the twitter thread mentioned down below. Some might Tommy Robinson had it coming, not only his previous EDL stuff but the fact where ever he goes he always seem to end up in a punch-up, but it is really rather worrying...It will also play into Robinson and even more extremists hands for recruitment.
What about if the current trial in Leeds gets declared a mistrial because of his antics and the suspects freed? Isn't that a more significant worry?
TBH I fully expect whenever I am able to read the full details of this case that Tommy won't actually have been that hard done by but by that time he will have presented his case of fighting for the little man whilst the state backs evil muslims once again and people will have moved on.
Also, the calibre of British people returning, and whether the EU migrants returning to their home country were previously productive or not, as well as the proportion of those that came here as students, as retirees, children, or as dependents.
Basically, it's complicated, and anyone who says it isn't is trying to sell you a tale.
Comments
It’s fucking bonkers.
https://fullfact.org/health/uks-abortion-rate-unusual-compared-other-countries/
Mostly relating to better access to contraception and education.
Still find it hilarious how DONE Boris is as a prospect
It has doubtless depressed wages for sparkies, brickies, plumbers, catering staff etc etc.
And the Rumanian government.
Shameful.
I feel conflicted about abortion. It is the taking of a life; it is an act freighted with moral significance and emphatically not the same as removing a tooth. I could not do it myself.
But it should be safe and legal ....... and rarer than it is. With the widespread availability of contraception, it does not seem great that there are such large numbers of abortions.
Remainers want a vote on the Deal.
No one - save May and Davis? - wants to continue on our present path.
Brenda from Bristol will be ropable.
Brexit is defeat and retreat, dressed up as a great patriotic mission.
I cope in my business.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/03/mass-grave-of-babies-and-children-found-at-tuam-orphanage-in-ireland
She made the right decision, and he remains an active Catholic, and worked all his life as a childrens social worker.
Probably nowadays she would have had an abortion in similar circumstances. Difficult issues all round.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwitkPBsHdo
https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/grossdomesticproductpreliminaryestimate/januarytomarch2018/fecc6504.xls
I rather doubt the ones I see are creating the average level of wealth.
But there a certain problem with begging, for sure. And, I can remember when Big Issue salesman were British. This doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.
Not sure what the answer is, but my first instinct would be to try to address the issue directly rather than a threaten the entire economy and our geopolitical standing.
Excluding bonuses it rose by 0.1%, which some seized on, but that seems like rather disingenuous to me.
Now that also applies to some Opposition politicians when they first take power but at least the Opposition will have put forward its policies at a general election.
What are Davidson's policies ?
1) End WFA in England and Wales but keep it in Scotland
2) Build endless numbers of new new towns (location and funding not revealed)
3) Errr
There’s your problem. The only way we get control is to go the whole hog, because the EU are paranoid that removing one stick is “kerplunk” on their whole system. They are wrong of course, but we are where we are.
Out: or join the Austria Hungarian empire of the 21st century.
That will lead to violent resistance eventually. Maybe not in my lifetime, but that is how it will play out sadly.
We could have modified our welfare system to get past scan self employment selling the Big Issue if our government wanted.
It had no consent from those it governed. It ended in violent implosion.
There are surely domestic policies we could pursue, but we don’t because too expensive, too illiberal, etc etc.
Then, people see a foreign Big Issue seller and the next minute they’re voting to pauperise their grandchildren.
We all should be worried about this.
It broke apart in the final days of 1918, but with little violence internally. Indeed the main AH casualties of the AH in WW1 came from fighting the external powers of Italy and Russia, and from the Allies blockade.
It certainly wasn’t a majority.
On the Galician front the story was different, with a catastrophic casualty rate particularly amongst regular army officers in the battles to relieve Przemsyl and the Carpathian campaign. Slavs became increasingly unwilling to fight fellow slavs there, and German officers were needed as replacements.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tommy-robinson-arrest-muslims-filming-court-a7733156.html
https://twitter.com/willchamberlain
The reporting restrictions are in place until the suspect grooming trial is over. Presumably it is at risk of being declared a mistrial and termination.
Basically, it's complicated, and anyone who says it isn't is trying to sell you a tale.