So the Russians backed Leave and Corbyn because they knew both were damaging for the UK.
If you back Leave and/or Corbyn then you're a traitor or a useful idiot.
Repent now.
Funny how when people called you a traitor you got all uppity about it but now you are happy to use the same name for those you oppose.
You are easily described. You at a fucking hypocrite.
Burke and his disciples like TSE are right on this one Richard. You should read more Burke.
Since when was politics ever a scientific and evidence based journey? Let me describe to you how we really are all in together. The big political bun fight.
Like kill all sorrows leads to plague of locusts, one persons enemy is not really their enemy after all. Our Babies are born with fear of snakes and spiders, but these creatures do good work in the scheme of things. Brexit? It’s not our place to kill daemons and monsters, they are serving the grand old purpose just as we are.
Here is the voice of Edmund Burke, the great Conservative politician and champion of representative democracy who said “Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.”
Can our democracy ever be stronger post Brexit if we don’t allow Burke’s reasoning tomorrow and today?
Peers are preparing a fresh attempt to block Britain’s departure from the European Union in the House of Lords tomorrow, it has been claimed.
Lord Callanan, a Brexit minister, said a Labour amendment due to be debated tomorrow would remove the Government’s power to negotiate with Brussels, handing it instead to Parliament.
Labour said the amendment would ensure a “meaningful role for Parliament” in the approval of a deal with the EU, adding to an amendment already forced on the Government by pro-Remain Tory rebels in the Commons.
If it is a Labour amendment, and Labour are currently still officially in favour of Brexiting (aren't they?) then how can their amendment be about blocking the departure? Or is the latter merely a claim about the impact of the amendment, and not the official purpose?
Is the whole of parliament really set up to negotiate in such a way? Not that the Cabinet have done a good job of coming up with a single stratagem, but how do 650 people do so?
Parliament/The Lords will form a Committee of Safety.
Who is today's Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned Barebone?
Didn't we need a Committee of Safety precisely because we didn't have executive Cabinet government at the time, so there was no alternative but a parliamentary committee? What is Cabinet but a parliamentary committee after all?
As for Mr Barebone, he was a tradesman, religious and was picked by the army, so we're looking for a working man/woman, a believer (or possibly a BeLeaver), with army ties for preference. Any candidates?
I reckon Dennis Skinner might be the guy, except on the army front.
2/3 not bad, and I don't recall if Barebone stayed in their good graces anyway, considering the Assembly of Saints, IIRC, proved just as fractious and unwieldy as previous and successor parliaments. Hence the attempted solution later - direct military rule! No drawbacks. So Skinner might be fine on that score.
I do love that looking at old politics because of the mundanity of some of the stuff going on during a civil war of all things - you don't tend to think of a parliament bickering over the correct procedure in relation to receiving a petition, or which committee to send it to, and arguing if they or the Protector (later on) have the power to do certain things (things never change I guess!), but it all happened. And no doubt Romans used to argue about the same sort of thing in their assemblies.
Gove betrayed the fishpeople over the CFP.Suck it up.
Am I the only person who, when reading fishpeople, imagines the “Sea Devils” of Pertwee-era Who?
I’d paste a pic but don’t know how.
Yay, someone got the reference.
I think you have your references mixed up. The picture you have posted are the Atlanteans from the Troughton-era serial "The Underwater Menace" transmitted in the 1960s. The Sea Devils first appeared in the Pertwee-era serial "The Sea Devils" transmitted in the 1970s. Totally different in appearance.
Of course you may have been confused by the fact that Atlantis has been destroyed three times in the TV show, each time incompatible with the others. This is why the concept of "canon" is difficult to apply to the show, and indeed may not be plausible.
Leavers might wish to reflect on the fact that they have never prioritised. Their intense hatred of all matters European has meant that they have never decided on which bits they were most keen to disavow. By making everything a red line, nothing got taken as immutable.
It looks like Brexit is best understood as a failed peaceful revolution, with the very sad exception of Jo Cox MP.
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I believe the Leave line on such matters is: suck it up, loser.
But it is incompetence. Because Leavers have never decided what really mattered, they’ve never been clear about what they want to achieve. So they are clueless about whether to fight for immigration control, striking new trade deals or money.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
If Remainers had spent more time winning the argument than sneering at the voters, and then carping from the sidelines they'd be far better placed now. You tried to scare the voters with lies about immediate economic armageddon and then lost to a bus. Get over it.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
I'm not sure May, Hammond, Rudd and all the top end civil servants could be described as Leavers.
Though I doubt the likes of Farage and Fox would be achieving much if they did have much more power.
Our political and administrative establishment is varying degrees of mdiocre to appalling in pretty much everything and has been for years.
I agree with those below. If the government accepts an immigration system that is virtually free movement, I will vote Corbyn in protest. As much as the man would be a disaster, the establishment needs to accept they will be punished for ignoring democracy.
' The institute also found that London's female employment rate had fallen back compared with other parts of the country.
In 1975, London's employment rate was the highest in the UK, at 63%. But despite strong employment growth in recent years, its figure was 74% in 2017 - joint-lowest together with Northern Ireland. '
Together with the story about London dominating the worst areas for childhood obesity it does seem that parts of London are sinking into ever deeper deprivation and squalor.
And thats before momentum take control next week
A few years of momentum will do wonders for the conservatives
Gove betrayed the fishpeople over the CFP.Suck it up.
Am I the only person who, when reading fishpeople, imagines the “Sea Devils” of Pertwee-era Who?
I’d paste a pic but don’t know how.
Yay, someone got the reference.
I think you have your references mixed up. The picture you have posted are the Atlanteans from the Troughton-era serial "The Underwater Menace" transmitted in the 1960s. The Sea Devils first appeared in the Pertwee-era serial "The Sea Devils" transmitted in the 1970s. Totally different in appearance.
Of course you may have been confused by the fact that Atlantis has been destroyed three times in the TV show, each time incompatible with the others. This is why the concept of "canon" is difficult to apply to the show, and indeed may not be plausible.
Pause
I'll get my coat...
Nerd.
Now about the likely percentage swing to Labour in the locals, and the significance, if any, of LD revival in by-elections since the start of the year...
Leavers might wish to reflect on the fact that they have never prioritised. Their intense hatred of all matters European has meant that they have never decided on which bits they were most keen to disavow. By making everything a red line, nothing got taken as immutable.
It looks like Brexit is best understood as a failed peaceful revolution, with the very sad exception of Jo Cox MP.
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I believe the Leave line on such matters is: suck it up, loser.
But it is incompetence. Because Leavers have never decided what really mattered, they’ve never been clear about what they want to achieve. So they are clueless about whether to fight for immigration control, striking new trade deals or money.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
If Remainers had spent more time winning the argument than sneering at the voters, and then carping from the sidelines they'd be far better placed now. You tried to scare the voters with lies about immediate economic armageddon and then lost to a bus. Get over it.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
2/3 not bad, and I don't recall if Barebone stayed in their good graces anyway, considering the Assembly of Saints, IIRC, proved just as fractious and unwieldy as previous and successor parliaments. Hence the attempted solution later - direct military rule! No drawbacks. So Skinner might be fine on that score.
I do love that looking at old politics because of the mundanity of some of the stuff going on during a civil war of all things - you don't tend to think of a parliament bickering over the correct procedure in relation to receiving a petition, or which committee to send it to, and arguing if they or the Protector (later on) have the power to do certain things, but it all happened. And no doubt Romans used to argue about the same sort of thing in their assemblies.
So do I.
My old history tutor made an observation that has always stuck in my mind.
'You can always tell a lot about a country by what they fought a civil war over'
The fundamental contradiction is you can't: a) keep the nice stuff (avoid Project Fear) AND b) take control (avoid client state) AND c) respect the result of the referendum
At least one of those has to give. There are scenarios where they all do.
4 Conservative candidates have been suspended this week:
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
Good for them. I hope there are no targets for how many racists need to be suspended, but all parties should be vigilant in respect of who they are putting forward to represent them. Ideally before they are chosen, but at some point at least if it hasn't been before.
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I believe the Leave line on such matters is: suck it up, loser.
But it is incompetence. Because Leavers have never decided what really mattered, they’ve never been clear about what they want to achieve. So they are clueless about whether to fight for immigration control, striking new trade deals or money.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
If Remainers had spent more time winning the argument than sneering at the voters, and then carping from the sidelines they'd be far better placed now. You tried to scare the voters with lies about immediate economic armageddon and then lost to a bus. Get over it.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
Ah, a return to purity tests. Almost makes me nostalgic. Anything rather than Leavers admit to their own glaring inadequacies.
So the Russians backed Leave and Corbyn because they knew both were damaging for the UK.
If you back Leave and/or Corbyn then you're a traitor or a useful idiot.
Repent now.
Funny how when people called you a traitor you got all uppity about it but now you are happy to use the same name for those you oppose.
You are easily described. You at a fucking hypocrite.
Burke and his disciples like TSE are right on this one Richard. You should read more Burke.
Since when was politics ever a scientific and evidence based journey? Let me describe to you how we really are all in together. The big political bun fight.
Like kill all sorrows leads to plague of locusts, one persons enemy is not really their enemy after all. Our Babies are born with fear of snakes and spiders, but these creatures do good work in the scheme of things. Brexit? It’s not our place to kill daemons and monsters, they are serving the grand old purpose just as we are.
Here is the voice of Edmund Burke, the great Conservative politician and champion of representative democracy who said “Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.”
Can our democracy ever be stronger post Brexit if we don’t allow Burke’s reasoning tomorrow and today?
Burke was writing in an era when there was no such thing as a direct referendum on a single issue. We live in a different world - one in which it is possible to ask a direct question of the whole electorate. What this has shown is that our representatives no long represent the views of the people on key matters.
We have never lived in a real democracy. That never really existed but any shade of it was subverted long ago by the party system and the dominance of a metropolitan elite that thinks itself innately superior to the mass of population. That is not democracy in any form.
I think you have your references mixed up. The picture you have posted are the Atlanteans from the Troughton-era serial "The Underwater Menace" transmitted in the 1960s. The Sea Devils first appeared in the Pertwee-era serial "The Sea Devils" transmitted in the 1970s. Totally different in appearance.
Of course you may have been confused by the fact that Atlantis has been destroyed three times in the TV show, each time incompatible with the others. This is why the concept of "canon" is difficult to apply to the show, and indeed may not be plausible.
Pause
I'll get my coat...
I'm not confused at all. I said in my post that the link was to a photo of the Atlantean Fish People because that's what the term Fish People made me think of.... I never claimed to be linking to a photo of Sea-Devils...
What is it about severe critics of Corbyn in the PLP and such allegations? Will he go the way of Danzcuk? (I don't even recall if the latter was ever actually found guilty?)
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I believe the Leave line on such matters is: suck it up, loser.
But it is incompetence. Because Leavers have never decided what really mattered, they’ve never been clear about what they want to achieve. So they are clueless about whether to fight for immigration control, striking new trade deals or money.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
If Remainers had spent more time winning the argument than sneering at the voters, and then carping from the sidelines they'd be far better placed now. You tried to scare the voters with lies about immediate economic armageddon and then lost to a bus. Get over it.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
Ah, a return to purity tests. Almost makes me nostalgic. Anything rather than Leavers admit to their own glaring inadequacies.
Disagreeing that we should be held responsible for a policy we don't support is not a purity test. It's basic logic to anyone that isn't Europhile moron.
Leavers might wish to reflect on the fact that they have never prioritised. Their intense hatred of all matters European has meant that they have never decided on which bits they were most keen to disavow. By making everything a red line, nothing got taken as immutable.
It looks like Brexit is best understood as a failed peaceful revolution, with the very sad exception of Jo Cox MP.
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I believe the Leave line on such matters is: suck it up, loser.
But it is incompetence. Because Leavers have never decided what really mattered, they’ve never been clear about what they want to achieve. So they are clueless about whether to fight for immigration control, striking new trade deals or money.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
If Remainers had spent more time winning the argument than sneering at the voters, and then carping from the sidelines they'd be far better placed now. You tried to scare the voters with lies about immediate economic armageddon and then lost to a bus. Get over it.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
Now about the likely percentage swing to Labour in the locals, and the significance, if any, of LD revival in by-elections since the start of the year...
Well I've been out campaigning for most of the day and we're certainly expecting a significant swing towards us (Lib Dems) from Labour in this particular ward.
Now about the likely percentage swing to Labour in the locals, and the significance, if any, of LD revival in by-elections since the start of the year...
Well I've been out campaigning for most of the day and we're certainly expecting a significant swing towards us (Lib Dems) from Labour in this particular ward.
Gove betrayed the fishpeople over the CFP.Suck it up.
Am I the only person who, when reading fishpeople, imagines the “Sea Devils” of Pertwee-era Who?
I’d paste a pic but don’t know how.
Yay, someone got the reference.
I think you have your references mixed up. The picture you have posted are the Atlanteans from the Troughton-era serial "The Underwater Menace" transmitted in the 1960s. The Sea Devils first appeared in the Pertwee-era serial "The Sea Devils" transmitted in the 1970s. Totally different in appearance.
Of course you may have been confused by the fact that Atlantis has been destroyed three times in the TV show, each time incompatible with the others. This is why the concept of "canon" is difficult to apply to the show, and indeed may not be plausible.
Pause
I'll get my coat...
Nerd.
Now about the likely percentage swing to Labour in the locals, and the significance, if any, of LD revival in by-elections since the start of the year...
I believe it's pronounced "nerrrrrrrrrd".
To my shame, I on't have a prediction of the likely percentage swing to Labour in the locals. I think the the significance of LD revival in by-elections is pretty low: it's not necessarily a predictor of local nor general election performance. I think they will increase their vote but not be significant (which is different from a significant increase).
All of which is statistician-speak for "fucked if I know"...
4 Conservative candidates have been suspended this week:
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
Good for them. I hope there are no targets for how many racists need to be suspended, but all parties should be vigilant in respect of who they are putting forward to represent them. Ideally before they are chosen, but at some point at least if it hasn't been before.
Contrast with labour - out of the conservative party immediately.
Labour one token gesture just before the locals resulting in the exiled labour member cloudfunding to sue Corbyn's Office and Livingstone still not been thrown out
Gove betrayed the fishpeople over the CFP.Suck it up.
Am I the only person who, when reading fishpeople, imagines the “Sea Devils” of Pertwee-era Who?
I’d paste a pic but don’t know how.
Yay, someone got the reference.
I think you have your references mixed up. The picture you have posted are the Atlanteans from the Troughton-era serial "The Underwater Menace" transmitted in the 1960s. The Sea Devils first appeared in the Pertwee-era serial "The Sea Devils" transmitted in the 1970s. Totally different in appearance.
Of course you may have been confused by the fact that Atlantis has been destroyed three times in the TV show, each time incompatible with the others. This is why the concept of "canon" is difficult to apply to the show, and indeed may not be plausible.
Pause
I'll get my coat...
Nerd.
Now about the likely percentage swing to Labour in the locals, and the significance, if any, of LD revival in by-elections since the start of the year...
I believe it's pronounced "nerrrrrrrrrd".
To my shame, I on't have a prediction of the likely percentage swing to Labour in the locals. I think the the significance of LD revival in by-elections is pretty low: it's not necessarily a predictor of local nor general election performance. I think they will increase their vote but not be significant (which is different from a significant increase).
All of which is statistician-speak for "fucked if I know"...
I'm predicting a very good night for the Lib Dems in Sheffield.
I believe the Leave line on such matters is: suck it up, loser.
But it is incompetence. Because Leavers have never decided what really mattered, they’ve never been clear about what they want to achieve. So they are clueless about whether to fight for immigration control, striking new trade deals or money.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
If Remainers had spent more time winning the argument than sneering at the voters, and then carping from the sidelines they'd be far better placed now. You tried to scare the voters with lies about immediate economic armageddon and then lost to a bus. Get over it.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
Ah, a return to purity tests. Almost makes me nostalgic. Anything rather than Leavers admit to their own glaring inadequacies.
Disagreeing that we should be held responsible for a policy we don't support is not a purity test. It's basic logic to anyone that isn't Europhile moron.
And back in the real world, compromises need to be made. Leavers’ complete inability to identify what they wished to prioritise, their determination to seek to ride roughshod over the 48% who voted Remain on every last point and their cluelessness about their negotiating heft against the EU has led to them fulminating - yet again - about a betrayal that they themselves have engineered.
I think you have your references mixed up. The picture you have posted are the Atlanteans from the Troughton-era serial "The Underwater Menace" transmitted in the 1960s. The Sea Devils first appeared in the Pertwee-era serial "The Sea Devils" transmitted in the 1970s. Totally different in appearance.
Of course you may have been confused by the fact that Atlantis has been destroyed three times in the TV show, each time incompatible with the others. This is why the concept of "canon" is difficult to apply to the show, and indeed may not be plausible.
Pause
I'll get my coat...
I'm not confused at all. I said in my post that the link was to a photo of the Atlantean Fish People because that's what the term Fish People made me think of.... I never claimed to be linking to a photo of Sea-Devils...
4 Conservative candidates have been suspended this week:
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
Good for them. I hope there are no targets for how many racists need to be suspended, but all parties should be vigilant in respect of who they are putting forward to represent them. Ideally before they are chosen, but at some point at least if it hasn't been before.
Contrast with labour - out of the conservative party immediately.
Labour one token gesture just before the locals resulting in the exiled labour member cloudfunding to sue Corbyn's Office and Livingstone still not been thrown out
Do you get a hearing with the Conservatives ? Genuine question.As not aware of their displinary procedures.
4 Conservative candidates have been suspended this week:
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
Good for them. I hope there are no targets for how many racists need to be suspended, but all parties should be vigilant in respect of who they are putting forward to represent them. Ideally before they are chosen, but at some point at least if it hasn't been before.
Contrast with labour - out of the conservative party immediately.
Labour one token gesture just before the locals resulting in the exiled labour member cloudfunding to sue Corbyn's Office and Livingstone still not been thrown out
Do you get a hearing with the Conservatives ? Genuine question.
I cannot answer that question with any knowledge other than they are out of the party very quickly, and rightly so
4 Conservative candidates have been suspended this week:
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
Good for them. I hope there are no targets for how many racists need to be suspended, but all parties should be vigilant in respect of who they are putting forward to represent them. Ideally before they are chosen, but at some point at least if it hasn't been before.
Contrast with labour - out of the conservative party immediately.
Labour one token gesture just before the locals resulting in the exiled labour member cloudfunding to sue Corbyn's Office and Livingstone still not been thrown out
Do you get a hearing with the Conservatives ? Genuine question.As not aware of their displinary procedures.
4 Conservative candidates have been suspended this week:
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
Good for them. I hope there are no targets for how many racists need to be suspended, but all parties should be vigilant in respect of who they are putting forward to represent them. Ideally before they are chosen, but at some point at least if it hasn't been before.
Contrast with labour - out of the conservative party immediately.
Labour one token gesture just before the locals resulting in the exiled labour member cloudfunding to sue Corbyn's Office and Livingstone still not been thrown out
Do you get a hearing with the Conservatives ? Genuine question.As not aware of their displinary procedures.
4 Conservative candidates have been suspended this week:
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
Good for them. I hope there are no targets for how many racists need to be suspended, but all parties should be vigilant in respect of who they are putting forward to represent them. Ideally before they are chosen, but at some point at least if it hasn't been before.
Contrast with labour - out of the conservative party immediately.
Labour one token gesture just before the locals resulting in the exiled labour member cloudfunding to sue Corbyn's Office and Livingstone still not been thrown out
Do you get a hearing with the Conservatives ? Genuine question.
I cannot answer that question with any knowledge other than they are out of the party very quickly, and rightly so
I appreciate that , but I imagine as with Labour formal procedures take time, not years I grant you.However you can not make immediate decisions , apart from suspensions .
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
spurned.
If Remainers had spent more time winning the argument than sneering at the voters, and then carping from the sidelines they'd be far better placed now. You tried to scare the voters with lies about immediate economic armageddon and then lost to a bus. Get over it.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
Ah, a return to purity tests. Almost makes me nostalgic. Anything rather than Leavers admit to their own glaring inadequacies.
Disagreeing that we should be held responsible for a policy we don't support is not a purity test. It's basic logic to anyone that isn't Europhile moron.
And back in the real world, compromises need to be made. Leavers’ complete inability to identify what they wished to prioritise, their determination to seek to ride roughshod over the 48% who voted Remain on every last point and their cluelessness about their negotiating heft against the EU has led to them fulminating - yet again - about a betrayal that they themselves have engineered.
We have been very clear about what we want to prioritise: control of our borders, laws and money. Leavers have not done anything other than want to implement the result in name and in spirit. It is overwhelmingly obvious from the sneering arrogance of Remainers that they would have used a vote to Remain as an excuse to charge towards integration, so these demands for "compromise" are obvious hypocrisy.
If the UK stays in near freedom of movement, the ECJ and the customs union it will be because that was wanted by Remainers, not Leavers. You will own vassal state status and all the economic problems that causes, not us.
4 Conservative candidates have been suspended this week:
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
Good for them. I hope there are no targets for how many racists need to be suspended, but all parties should be vigilant in respect of who they are putting forward to represent them. Ideally before they are chosen, but at some point at least if it hasn't been before.
Contrast with labour - out of the conservative party immediately.
Labour one token gesture just before the locals resulting in the exiled labour member cloudfunding to sue Corbyn's Office and Livingstone still not been thrown out
If I'm reading it correctly they have been suspended rather than out of the party.
Presumably like Anne Marie they will be let back in?
Also the member wasn't kicked out for anti semitism but for bringing the party into disrepute. I think many members object on the grounds others have done far more to bring the party into disrepute so it is a targeted decision rather than a just one.
Thanks, we have a terrific candidate who has worked really hard. It's the former ward of the now MP who is rather "marmite" in how she is perceived. It was last fought last year where we came 4th but only ran a paper campaign. It's come up again as it's a 3-member ward elected in turns, as they all are here. This time we are really trying. We've won it before and we can win it again, I hope.
4 Conservative candidates have been suspended this week:
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
Good for them. I hope there are no targets for how many racists need to be suspended, but all parties should be vigilant in respect of who they are putting forward to represent them. Ideally before they are chosen, but at some point at least if it hasn't been before.
Contrast with labour - out of the conservative party immediately.
Labour one token gesture just before the locals resulting in the exiled labour member cloudfunding to sue Corbyn's Office and Livingstone still not been thrown out
Do you get a hearing with the Conservatives ? Genuine question.As not aware of their displinary procedures.
A quick google terms up a document on guidance for Conservative Associations undertaking suspensions or expulsions of members, requiring the right to be heard by an unbiased tribunal with opportunity to answer the charges, the right of the member to receive notice of charges, and the right to appeal the decision.
But it says this too
Before beginning the process of expulsion the Association should consider whether the member should first be suspended. This provides a mechanism whereby the member concerned can be immediately but temporarily removed from the Party, pending the occurrence of an action e.g. formal expulsion proceedings, an investigation, a police investigation or a criminal trial. Suspension must not be used as a disciplinary sanction in itself.
Goodness only knows if the doc I found with 5 seconds of googling still applies, or does apply in this situation, or if the central party has different powers.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
spurned.
If Remainers had spent more time winning the argument than sneering at the voters, and then carping from the sidelines they'd be far better placed now. You tried to scare the voters with lies about immediate economic armageddon and then lost to a bus. Get over it.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
Ah, a return to purity tests. Almost makes me nostalgic. Anything rather than Leavers admit to their own glaring inadequacies.
Disagreeing that we should be held responsible for a policy we don't support is not a purity test. It's basic logic to anyone that isn't Europhile moron.
And back in the real world, compromises need to be made. Leavers’ complete inability to identify what they wished to prioritise, their determination to seek to ride roughshod over the 48% who voted Remain on every last point and their cluelessness about their negotiating heft against the EU has led to them fulminating - yet again - about a betrayal that they themselves have engineered.
We have been very clear about what we want to prioritise: control of our borders, laws and money.
4 Conservative candidates have been suspended this week:
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
Good for them. I hope there are no targets for how many racists need to be suspended, but all parties should be vigilant in respect of who they are putting forward to represent them. Ideally before they are chosen, but at some point at least if it hasn't been before.
Contrast with labour - out of the conservative party immediately.
Labour one token gesture just before the locals resulting in the exiled labour member cloudfunding to sue Corbyn's Office and Livingstone still not been thrown out
Do you get a hearing with the Conservatives ? Genuine question.
I cannot answer that question with any knowledge other than they are out of the party very quickly, and rightly so
I appreciate that , but I imagine as with Labour formal procedures take time, not years I grant you.However you can not make immediate decisions , apart from suspensions .
I believe they were sacked as candidates but may go through a procedure re their membership
A very clever move by May which will preserve free movement, which is critical for businesses, particularly down here. Yet the policy gives the UK an emergency brake (although it will rarely, if ever, used). Coupled with Customs Union alignment Brexit could be rather soft.
I believe the Leave line on such matters is: suck it up, loser.
But it is incompetence. Because Leavers have never decided what really mattered, they’ve never been clear about what they want to achieve. So they are clueless about whether to fight for immigration control, striking new trade deals or money.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
If Remainers had spent more time winning the argument than sneering at the voters, and then carping from the sidelines they'd be far better placed now. You tried to scare the voters with lies about immediate economic armageddon and then lost to a bus. Get over it.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
Ah, a return to purity tests. Almost makes me nostalgic. Anything rather than Leavers admit to their own glaring inadequacies.
Disagreeing that we should be held responsible for a policy we don't support is not a purity test. It's basic logic to anyone that isn't Europhile moron.
And back in the real world, compromises need to be made. Leavers’ complete inability to identify what they wished to prioritise, their determination to seek to ride roughshod over the 48% who voted Remain on every last point and their cluelessness about their negotiating heft against the EU has led to them fulminating - yet again - about a betrayal that they themselves have engineered.
There is no betrayal. We are leaving the EU. Everything else is up for grabs.
4 Conservative candidates have been suspended this week:
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
Good for them. I hope there are no targets for how many racists need to be suspended, but all parties should be vigilant in respect of who they are putting forward to represent them. Ideally before they are chosen, but at some point at least if it hasn't been before.
Contrast with labour - out of the conservative party immediately.
Labour one token gesture just before the locals resulting in the exiled labour member cloudfunding to sue Corbyn's Office and Livingstone still not been thrown out
Do you get a hearing with the Conservatives ? Genuine question.As not aware of their displinary procedures.
Fair. I thought Gove was meant to be fairly smart, did he not see the similarities in doing so, and the obvious rejoinder that even if your opponent is making use of a scandal, that doesn't mean the scandal does not exist, particularly when your own incompetence is making it worse?
Leavers might wish to reflect on the fact that they have never prioritised. Their intense hatred of all matters European has meant that they have never decided on which bits they were most keen to disavow. By making everything a red line, nothing got taken as immutable.
It looks like Brexit is best understood as a failed peaceful revolution, with the very sad exception of Jo Cox MP.
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I believe the Leave line on such matters is: suck it up, loser.
But it is incompetence. Because Leavers have never decided what really mattered, they’ve never been clear about what they want to achieve. So they are clueless about whether to fight for immigration control, striking new trade deals or money.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
+1
+1 what? The package proposed by May is a decent compromise of Remain and soft Leave, commanding a clear majority in that country. The referendum result is being honoured. Why the angst?
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
spurned.
If Remainers had spent more time winning the argument than sneering at the voters, and then carping from the sidelines they'd be far better placed now. You tried to scare the voters with lies about immediate economic armageddon and then lost to a bus. Get over it.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
Ah, a return to purity tests. Almost makes me nostalgic. Anything rather than Leavers admit to their own glaring inadequacies.
Disagreeing that we should be held responsible for a policy we don't support is not a purity test. It's basic logic to anyone that isn't Europhile moron.
And back in the real world, compromises need to be made. Leavers’ complete inability to identify what they wished to prioritise, their determination to seek to ride roughshod over the 48% who voted Remain on every last point and their cluelessness about their negotiating heft against the EU has led to them fulminating - yet again - about a betrayal that they themselves have engineered.
We have been very clear about what we want to prioritise: control of our borders, laws and money.
You had to choose between these. You didn’t.
No choice was needed. Countries from Canada to Australia have them all.
Leavers might wish to reflect on the fact that they have never prioritised. Their intense hatred of all matters European has meant that they have never decided on which bits they were most keen to disavow. By making everything a red line, nothing got taken as immutable.
It looks like Brexit is best understood as a failed peaceful revolution, with the very sad exception of Jo Cox MP.
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I believe the Leave line on such matters is: suck it up, loser.
But it is incompetence. Because Leavers have never decided what really mattered, they’ve never been clear about what they want to achieve. So they are clueless about whether to fight for immigration control, striking new trade deals or money.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
+1
+1 what? The package proposed by May is a decent compromise of Remain and soft Leave, commanding a clear majority in that country. The referendum result is being honoured. Why the angst?
We don't know the detail yet,it's paper talk so far.
' The institute also found that London's female employment rate had fallen back compared with other parts of the country.
In 1975, London's employment rate was the highest in the UK, at 63%. But despite strong employment growth in recent years, its figure was 74% in 2017 - joint-lowest together with Northern Ireland. '
Together with the story about London dominating the worst areas for childhood obesity it does seem that parts of London are sinking into ever deeper deprivation and squalor.
For those interested in the childhood obesity data spreadsheets can be found here:
Weaponised is another of those words you only ever encounter on PB/from political nerds. It is never uttered in real life. I have never heard anyone say it.
Leavers might wish to reflect on the fact that they have never prioritised. Their intense hatred of all matters European has meant that they have never decided on which bits they were most keen to disavow. By making everything a red line, nothing got taken as immutable.
It looks like Brexit is best understood as a failed peaceful revolution, with the very sad exception of Jo Cox MP.
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
+1
+1 what? The package proposed by May is a decent compromise of Remain and soft Leave, commanding a clear majority in that country. The referendum result is being honoured. Why the angst?
I don't think a majority of the country will support free movement being kept. If May thinks this is a good idea she can see what happens to her 42% of the vote.
Weaponised is another of those words you only ever encounter on PB/from political nerds. It is never uttered in real life. I have never heard anyone say it.
I equate it to a line from one of Pratchett's Discworld novels (no doubt other comedians have made the same point) about certain words only being found in newspaper headlines, like rare fish that can only survive in a coral reef. 'Fracas' was the example in that case.
Sure - forgetting the specifics of Wadsworth for now, the issue is general - it's fine to care about some things more than others, but if you are neither Jewish, not Israeli, nor Palestinian (or I guess at a push Jordanian, Syrian, etc) then caring monomaniacally about the real or imagined sins of the world's only Jewish country, while defending other vicious dictatorships is something that needs explanation.
If people can't offer an explanation for, say, why they are demonstrating against Israel killing a dozen Palestinians in self defence, but in favour of Assad when he carpet bombs a Palestinian community in Syria, Occam's razor comes into play when working out what their specific problem with the world's only Jewish country is.
An analogy: If I attacked Wadsworth and Walker and, oh, let's say Lee Jasper, but defended Livingstone, Williamson, and, say, Pam Bromley, I can completely understand why people would question my motives.
Who are these people who you see demonstrating against Israel but for Assad?
' The institute also found that London's female employment rate had fallen back compared with other parts of the country.
In 1975, London's employment rate was the highest in the UK, at 63%. But despite strong employment growth in recent years, its figure was 74% in 2017 - joint-lowest together with Northern Ireland. '
Together with the story about London dominating the worst areas for childhood obesity it does seem that parts of London are sinking into ever deeper deprivation and squalor.
For those interested in the childhood obesity data spreadsheets can be found here:
Bit of trivia spotted while googling the Sheffield Local Elections. At the last vote (2016) the Tories were the 5th party, 0 councillors and just 6% of the vote. Are there any other councils where they are that low? How about any others in England (i.e. no nationalists)? And indeed, any where Labour are 5th?
Leavers might wish to reflect on the fact that they have never prioritised. Their intense hatred of all matters European has meant that they have never decided on which bits they were most keen to disavow. By making everything a red line, nothing got taken as immutable.
It looks like Brexit is best understood as a failed peaceful revolution, with the very sad exception of Jo Cox MP.
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
We are very happy to take responsibility for the policy we support: return to British control of our borders, laws and money.
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
+1
+1 what? The package proposed by May is a decent compromise of Remain and soft Leave, commanding a clear majority in that country. The referendum result is being honoured. Why the angst?
I don't think a majority of the country will support free movement being kept. If May thinks this is a good idea she can see what happens to her 42% of the vote.
We gave millions the right to stay here(citizenship) and if the free movement is kept,what the fcuk was the point.
Bit of trivia spotted while googling the Sheffield Local Elections. At the last vote (2016) the Tories were the 5th party, 0 councillors and just 6% of the vote. Are there any other councils where they are that low? How about any others in England (i.e. no nationalists)? And indeed, any where Labour are 5th?
Bit of trivia spotted while googling the Sheffield Local Elections. At the last vote (2016) the Tories were the 5th party, 0 councillors and just 6% of the vote. Are there any other councils where they are that low? How about any others in England (i.e. no nationalists)? And indeed, any where Labour are 5th?
Liverpool
Christ. I knew the Liberals still won the odd seat in the city, but didn't realise the Tories didn't have a single one!
I don't think a majority of the country will support free movement being kept. If May thinks this is a good idea she can see what happens to her 42% of the vote.
My comment:
I don't mind how slowly we leave, as long as the change of course happens. If it's really only BINO, then I shall be a Labour voter in spite of my intense dislike of everything Mr Corbyn seems to value.
Bit of trivia spotted while googling the Sheffield Local Elections. At the last vote (2016) the Tories were the 5th party, 0 councillors and just 6% of the vote. Are there any other councils where they are that low? How about any others in England (i.e. no nationalists)? And indeed, any where Labour are 5th?
Liverpool
Christ. I knew the Liberals still won the odd seat in the city, but didn't realise the Tories didn't have a single one!
I reckon there's Manchester as well where Labour have 95 out of 96 seats, the Lib Dems have the other.
Manchester is slipping from Labour, they used have all 96 seats a couple of years ago.
So Brexitism is all about keeping the foreigners out after all?
I thought it was something to do with ‘globalising’ free trade. I thought that because I read it right here on PB!
For many people it is about reducing immigration. Even many remainers wanted immigration more under control. It's not my motivator, but I think a majority probably do support much tougher immigration control (if only it were done right).
Bit of trivia spotted while googling the Sheffield Local Elections. At the last vote (2016) the Tories were the 5th party, 0 councillors and just 6% of the vote. Are there any other councils where they are that low? How about any others in England (i.e. no nationalists)? And indeed, any where Labour are 5th?
Liverpool
Christ. I knew the Liberals still won the odd seat in the city, but didn't realise the Tories didn't have a single one!
I reckon there's Manchester as well where Labour have 95 out of 96 seats, the Lib Dems have the other.
Manchester is slipping from Labour, they used have all 96 seats a couple of years ago.
Yes, but the Tories are 3rd on vote share. I think they came second in some City Centre wards last time, might check tomorrow.
I don't think a majority of the country will support free movement being kept. If May thinks this is a good idea she can see what happens to her 42% of the vote.
My comment:
I don't mind how slowly we leave, as long as the change of course happens. If it's really only BINO, then I shall be a Labour voter in spite of my intense dislike of everything Mr Corbyn seems to value.
Weaponised is another of those words you only ever encounter on PB/from political nerds. It is never uttered in real life. I have never heard anyone say it.
Leavers might wish to reflect on the fact that they have never prioritised. Their intense hatred of all matters European has meant that they have never decided on which bits they were most keen to disavow. By making everything a red line, nothing got taken as immutable.
It looks like Brexit is best understood as a failed peaceful revolution, with the very sad exception of Jo Cox MP.
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
.
+1
+1 what? The package proposed by May is a decent compromise of Remain and soft Leave, commanding a clear majority in that country. The referendum result is being honoured. Why the angst?
I don't think a majority of the country will support free movement being kept. If May thinks this is a good idea she can see what happens to her 42% of the vote.
We gave millions the right to stay here(citizenship) and if the free movement is kept,what the fcuk was the point.
You moan about your own locale enough, calling it a “shithole”. Why don’t you emigrate or move if you dislike it so much? Instead you rail against other people that move around.
I don't altogether have time now to do this justice, and won't tomorrow - but
I'd hope not that many are actively pro-Assad, though some. I doubt many actively support his killing of Palestinians. That wasn't my point. If Israel kills 15 Palestinians (who are, by and by, part of a large group carrying makeshift weapons and openly attempting to rush the border and 'take back their land'), and Syria kills 30 (largely civilian) Palestinians as part of indiscriminate bombing of a settlement which has been captured by an opposition group, and someone's first instinct is to go out on two protests - one against Israel, and one against the UK degrading Syria's military capabilities, that person is probably motivated by something other than concern for Palestinians.
It is possible to see Assad as the least worst viable option, I think we're broadly in agreement on that as a coherent viewpoint whether it's right or wrong. I'd argue it's also possible to see Likud as a lesser evil than Hamas, even ignoring that displacing Likud in favour of something more conducive to a long-term peace settlement seems an order of magnitude more likely than does getting anything other than, let alone better than, Hamas.
This feels substantive:
"As to the extra attention to the Israel-Palestine situation it is another one where you can turn it around. Would so many people go out of their way to defend and justify the actions of Israel if the people they inflicting suffering on were not just Arabs, Would there be such little international outcry... if another country was stealing the land of its neighbour and forcing its population to live in poverty?
I think if wars fought 70 and 50 years ago had led to the loss of land, in particular loss of land by the aggressor nation(s), and the combatants were the same broad racial group as each other, it might have been resolved on all sides by now.
I'm not sure how many Germans campaign for the return of Danzig from Poland but I'm imagining not many, though I know 'displaced Germans' had their own movement. The Armenians are as Christian as you can get, but their loss over generations of almost all their historic homeland, with a genocide into the bargain, is basically met with a global assumption that they can lump it. There aren't that many analogies as not many national movements claim the entirety of a disputed territory - even the IRA wouldn't (as such) demand that Protestants leave Ireland, for example, and the full analogy would really be if they wanted to abolish the UK, rather than merely remove part of it. It's complicated.
If anything I think the perception that "Jews are White, Arabs are not" feeds the anti-Israel narrative on the left as they are able to convince themselves they are "standing up for the oppressed", rather ignoring that Israel is about the size of Wales and the Arab League is collectively larger than the USA. Your view may differ, I'm sure.
Weaponised is another of those words you only ever encounter on PB/from political nerds. It is never uttered in real life. I have never heard anyone say it.
< If it's really only BINO, then I shall be a Labour voter in spite of my intense dislike of everything Mr Corbyn seems to value.
But presumably he also wants BINO?
I don't much mind what he wants with respect to the EU.
I believe he will destroy, inadvertently or not, a lot of things this country has taken for granted. But the little people have been taken for granted too long.
If the referendum result is ignored, then it's time to cut our losses and start again, and the quickest way to do that is to employ a wrecker.
There's a distinct variation between inner and outer in childhood obesity and while inner London might have lots of young slim people working there they tend to prefer to move to outer or outside London when they have kids.
Leavers might wish to reflect on the fact that they have never prioritised. Their intense hatred of all matters European has meant that they have never decided on which bits they were most keen to disavow. By making everything a red line, nothing got taken as immutable.
It looks like Brexit is best understood as a failed peaceful revolution, with the very sad exception of Jo Cox MP.
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
.
+1
+1 what? The package proposed by May is a decent compromise of Remain and soft Leave, commanding a clear majority in that country. The referendum result is being honoured. Why the angst?
I don't think a majority of the country will support free movement being kept. If May thinks this is a good idea she can see what happens to her 42% of the vote.
We gave millions the right to stay here(citizenship) and if the free movement is kept,what the fcuk was the point.
You moan about your own locale enough, calling it a “shithole”. Why don’t you emigrate or move if you dislike it so much? Instead you rail against other people that move around.
I want my shithole to be your shithole and a vote for your favourite leader will bring us together,socialism in action.
There's a distinct variation between inner and outer in childhood obesity and while inner London might have lots of young slim people working there they tend to prefer to move to outer or outside London when they have kids.
Its the poor who have kids in inner London.
That’s supposition really, although every major city has its poor areas with social problems. Still, London remains the slimmest region by far so it has something going for it. You have an odd dislike of London which is obvious, but I can’t put my finger on why you dislike it so much!
I’m not a fan of Corbyn. You didn’t answer my point. If you loath where you live so much, why stay there? I was brought up in a horrible place. I left.
So Brexitism is all about keeping the foreigners out after all?
I thought it was something to do with ‘globalising’ free trade. I thought that because I read it right here on PB!
It was about several issues. If you look at reasons given for a Leave vote, first was control of our laws, second was control of migration. It is not about keeping foreigners out, it is about managing the number who come here down to lower levels, particularly among the low skilled.
Bit of trivia spotted while googling the Sheffield Local Elections. At the last vote (2016) the Tories were the 5th party, 0 councillors and just 6% of the vote. Are there any other councils where they are that low? How about any others in England (i.e. no nationalists)? And indeed, any where Labour are 5th?
Liverpool
They're down to 3 seats out of 55 in Nottingham (Labour has the rest). Conversely they have virtually all the seats in Waverley, where I live. I don't think either is healthy - the case for PR at local level is very strong.
Bit of trivia spotted while googling the Sheffield Local Elections. At the last vote (2016) the Tories were the 5th party, 0 councillors and just 6% of the vote. Are there any other councils where they are that low? How about any others in England (i.e. no nationalists)? And indeed, any where Labour are 5th?
Here in Epping Forest Labour are effectively 6th. Although they stand candidates in some wards they have 0 councillors, the Tories, Residents' Association, LDs, Greens and UKIP all have councillors currently
Bit of trivia spotted while googling the Sheffield Local Elections. At the last vote (2016) the Tories were the 5th party, 0 councillors and just 6% of the vote. Are there any other councils where they are that low? How about any others in England (i.e. no nationalists)? And indeed, any where Labour are 5th?
Liverpool
They're down to 3 seats out of 55 in Nottingham (Labour has the rest). Conversely they have virtually all the seats in Waverley, where I live. I don't think either is healthy - the case for PR at local level is very strong.
Hi Nick, have you been campaigning in Islington? I'm wondering whether Labour are confident of winning all the seats in the borough. At the moment I think there's one Green councillor.
Fox News is showing the Trump rally in Washington MI, CNN is showing the 'red carpet' for the White House Correspondents dinner, and completely ignoring the Trump rally. MSNBC is showing Hardball with Chris Matthews, and CNBC is showing Staten Island Hustle. Both these also are ignoring the Trump rally.
Update - MSNBC is now covering the WHCA dinner red carpet too.
There's a distinct variation between inner and outer in childhood obesity and while inner London might have lots of young slim people working there they tend to prefer to move to outer or outside London when they have kids.
Its the poor who have kids in inner London.
That’s supposition really, although every major city has its poor areas with social problems. Still, London remains the slimmest region by far so it has something going for it. You have an odd dislike of London which is obvious, but I can’t put my finger on why you dislike it so much!
I don't dislike London but I dislike the assumption that it is some ideal to be imitated.
The higher levels of inequality and lower levels of home ownership which it has are not things I approve of.
If you are able to look at that ONS data on child obesity you will see it is at high levels in every Tower Hamlets ward - the same area where the vast wealth of Canary Wharf is located.
Fox News is showing the Trump rally in Washington MI, CNN is showing the 'red carpet' for the White House Correspondents dinner, and completely ignoring the Trump rally. MSNBC is showing Hardball with Chris Matthews, and CNBC is showing Staten Island Hustle. Both these also are ignoring the Trump rally.
Update - MSNBC is now covering the WHCA dinner red carpet too.
Fox News is showing the Trump rally in Washington MI, CNN is showing the 'red carpet' for the White House Correspondents dinner, and completely ignoring the Trump rally. MSNBC is showing Hardball with Chris Matthews, and CNBC is showing Staten Island Hustle. Both these also are ignoring the Trump rally.
Update - MSNBC is now covering the WHCA dinner red carpet too.
Tells you all you need to know.
They're playing into Trump's hands IMO.
It certainly doesn't contradict the 'media are against Trump and those who voted for him.....
Bit of trivia spotted while googling the Sheffield Local Elections. At the last vote (2016) the Tories were the 5th party, 0 councillors and just 6% of the vote. Are there any other councils where they are that low? How about any others in England (i.e. no nationalists)? And indeed, any where Labour are 5th?
Liverpool
They're down to 3 seats out of 55 in Nottingham (Labour has the rest). Conversely they have virtually all the seats in Waverley, where I live. I don't think either is healthy - the case for PR at local level is very strong.
Hi Nick, have you been campaigning in Islington? I'm wondering whether Labour are confident of winning all the seats in the borough. At the moment I think there's one Green councillor.
No, I've been sitting this one out - was in Vienna till Thursday for a week-long series of meetings, and as there are virtually no elections in Surrey I've not knocked myself out to go and deliver leaflets in Crawley (the nearest place where much is happening).
I did get a text to go to the West Midlands I think... felt a bit guilty declining but it's a decent distance from here, especially for someone who doesn't drive.
No rush to reply, I shall just declare victory in your absence, also had to leave earlier myself.
I don't doubt there could be an element who do not have the greatest of intentions, maybe some anti Western interfence but then look more kindly on other countries such as say Russia doing the same, which on a case by case basis could be justified but as an overall approach would be hypocritcal at best.
I suppose anti semites could protest both Israel and then our interventions against Syria but I would imagine most people who are happily (even if only to themselves) anti semitic would be satisfied with just protesting against Israel, they could also protest against Syria intervention but presumably that would be based on something other than their anti semitic views. There are users on PB who have both complained about Israels actions and were against intervention in Syria. They may not have protested those things but surely the difference there comes down to willingness to put some energy behind your beliefs in that situation.
I think there probably are some dodgy types in stop the war but it also used to contain people like Caroline Lucas (who left because of some views/actions she wasn't happy with) so I imagine it has plenty of fairly nice people in it who are anti intervention and feel the west actions and support around the world causes a lot of negative repercussions.
The Likud/Hamas thing doesn't really line up with the Assad thing that well IMO as it is a civil war versus the elected representatives of two groups of people. Hamas pretty much were created by Israel's actions so the best way to combat them would be to change Israel's actions. Changing Hamas would do little to actually change the situation as Israel controls the situation.
The land issue is complicated but in terms of theft of land I was thinking more of the expansion in more recent decades rather than the founding (?) war and '67. The land in those could be argued to an extent but I wouldn't argue for any solution that saw all Israeli's expelled or any such nonsense. If not a one state solution or something else which saw the current people of Israel given suitable conditions anything that saw Israel shrunk below the size of its original planned borders would seem unfair to me.
I do agree there may be an element of Jewish people are not seen as the victims in the way others are. If we are talking someone getting abuse for being Jewish then that to me is just as bad as someone getting abuse for being black. Although in the case of Israel despite its small land area I don't think the same case can really be made for it. We can disagree on whether the Israeli's or the Palestinian's are the good guys or the bad guys or probably more accurately those in charge of the states actions but I don't think anyone can really argue the Israeli's are the victims in the conflict between them and Palestine.
You (not that you actually do) might think the Palestinians are the bad guys and had it coming but regardless of your (same disclaimer) views it is hard to paint the Israeli's as the victims in the conflict.
The British certainly weren't bullied by many of our larger colonies!
Bit of trivia spotted while googling the Sheffield Local Elections. At the last vote (2016) the Tories were the 5th party, 0 councillors and just 6% of the vote. Are there any other councils where they are that low? How about any others in England (i.e. no nationalists)? And indeed, any where Labour are 5th?
Liverpool
Looking at the council and the GE results, Stocksbridge & Upper Don is probably the best place for the Tories to chuck all their Sheffield resources. But probably best for someone like @Tissue_Price to GOTV there rather than @TheScreamingEagles. The overall weakness in the city is emphasised by finishing third in Fulwood, the sort of area the Conservatives might expect to do better in.
Leavers might wish to reflect on the fact that they have never prioritised. Their intense hatred of all matters European has meant that they have never decided on which bits they were most keen to disavow. By making everything a red line, nothing got taken as immutable.
It looks like Brexit is best understood as a failed peaceful revolution, with the very sad exception of Jo Cox MP.
If it fails, it will be because of the staggering incompetence of its leaders. Its followers, who have egged them on at every stage, must take their share of the blame.
It is not so much incompetence as a lack of ruthlessness.
I try and engage, and get this. You really are a spiteful, bitter, bile-filled piece of work.
We could have had control of everything, if only the institutions had been suitably reformed/decapitated. Many Leavers were naive about that.
If Leavers had spent less time exulting in a victory won through xenophobic lies and carrying out loyalty tests, and instead spent more time working on winning the peace, they would be far better placed now.
I have throughout sought to draw attention to the action points. But for some reason my advice has been spurned.
You’ve had nearly two years behind the steering wheel. The mess is your own making. Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility is still going strong though.
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+1
+1 what? The package proposed by May is a decent compromise of Remain and soft Leave, commanding a clear majority in that country. The referendum result is being honoured. Why the angst?
I don't think a majority of the country will support free movement being kept. If May thinks this is a good idea she can see what happens to her 42% of the vote.
We gave millions the right to stay here(citizenship) and if the free movement is kept,what the fcuk was the point.
You moan about your own locale enough, calling it a “shithole”. Why don’t you emigrate or move if you dislike it so much? Instead you rail against other people that move around.
The land issue is complicated but in terms of theft of land I was thinking more of the expansion in more recent decades rather than the founding (?) war and '67. The land in those could be argued to an extent but I wouldn't argue for any solution that saw all Israeli's expelled or any such nonsense. If not a one state solution or something else which saw the current people of Israel given suitable conditions anything that saw Israel shrunk below the size of its original planned borders would seem unfair to me.
I do agree there may be an element of Jewish people are not seen as the victims in the way others are. If we are talking someone getting abuse for being Jewish then that to me is just as bad as someone getting abuse for being black. Although in the case of Israel despite its small land area I don't think the same case can really be made for it. We can disagree on whether the Israeli's or the Palestinian's are the good guys or the bad guys or probably more accurately those in charge of the states actions but I don't think anyone can really argue the Israeli's are the victims in the conflict between them and Palestine.
You (not that you actually do) might think the Palestinians are the bad guys and had it coming but regardless of your (same disclaimer) views it is hard to paint the Israeli's as the victims in the conflict.
The British certainly weren't bullied by many of our larger colonies!
2/2
In reverse.
OK the recent land issue is a relatively minor part in the grand scheme of a peace settlement. There'll be some land swaps - note that for all the expansion of some settlements in the West Bank, the IDF also ethnically cleansed Gaza at gunpoint to satisfy the Palestinians that there were no more Jews there. Some thanks they got.
For the moment there's a perverse incentive, until the Palestinians are ready to come to the peace table, the more entrenched the settlements are made the harder it will be to argue that the peace settlement has to mean dismantling them, and the more Israel will be seen as "giving up" if they are.
I'm not sure you can paint the Israelis as "the victims", though you can certainly paint them as the intended victims - Arab commanders explicitly described their initial invasion of the new state as "a war of extermination". The point isn't about them being victims, it's about there being a place, for the first time in two thousand years, where Jews will be allowed to fight back, so that they aren't eternal victims.
Comments
Since when was politics ever a scientific and evidence based journey? Let me describe to you how we really are all in together. The big political bun fight.
Like kill all sorrows leads to plague of locusts, one persons enemy is not really their enemy after all. Our Babies are born with fear of snakes and spiders, but these creatures do good work in the scheme of things. Brexit? It’s not our place to kill daemons and monsters, they are serving the grand old purpose just as we are.
Here is the voice of Edmund Burke, the great Conservative politician and champion of representative democracy who said “Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.”
Can our democracy ever be stronger post Brexit if we don’t allow Burke’s reasoning tomorrow and today?
I do love that looking at old politics because of the mundanity of some of the stuff going on during a civil war of all things - you don't tend to think of a parliament bickering over the correct procedure in relation to receiving a petition, or which committee to send it to, and arguing if they or the Protector (later on) have the power to do certain things (things never change I guess!), but it all happened. And no doubt Romans used to argue about the same sort of thing in their assemblies.
Of course you may have been confused by the fact that Atlantis has been destroyed three times in the TV show, each time incompatible with the others. This is why the concept of "canon" is difficult to apply to the show, and indeed may not be plausible.
Pause
I'll get my coat...
Though I doubt the likes of Farage and Fox would be achieving much if they did have much more power.
Our political and administrative establishment is varying degrees of mdiocre to appalling in pretty much everything and has been for years.
A few years of momentum will do wonders for the conservatives
Now about the likely percentage swing to Labour in the locals, and the significance, if any, of LD revival in by-elections since the start of the year...
What we won't take responsibility for is Remain politicians selling out that policy with a fake Brexit. Remainers are responsible for that if it happens as it will have been a Remain voting PM pressured by a Remain cabinet and a Remain lobby in the media.
My old history tutor made an observation that has always stuck in my mind.
'You can always tell a lot about a country by what they fought a civil war over'
• George Stoakley for anti-Semitism
• Antony Mullen for racism
• Matthew Clarke for homophobia
• Alexander van Terheyden for Islamophobia
AND b) take control (avoid client state) AND c) respect the result of the referendum
At least one of those has to give. There are scenarios where they all do.
We have never lived in a real democracy. That never really existed but any shade of it was subverted long ago by the party system and the dominance of a metropolitan elite that thinks itself innately superior to the mass of population. That is not democracy in any form.
Seems the Sunday Times didn't do their homework, Russia backs strong and stable leadership in the national interest.
So it is those who vote Conservative or Brexit who are the traitors....
I'm joking of course, only zealots like TSE would brand people as traitors and mean it.
To my shame, I on't have a prediction of the likely percentage swing to Labour in the locals. I think the the significance of LD revival in by-elections is pretty low: it's not necessarily a predictor of local nor general election performance. I think they will increase their vote but not be significant (which is different from a significant increase).
All of which is statistician-speak for "fucked if I know"...
Labour one token gesture just before the locals resulting in the exiled labour member cloudfunding to sue Corbyn's Office and Livingstone still not been thrown out
https://www.conservatives.com/codeofconduct
If the UK stays in near freedom of movement, the ECJ and the customs union it will be because that was wanted by Remainers, not Leavers. You will own vassal state status and all the economic problems that causes, not us.
Presumably like Anne Marie they will be let back in?
Also the member wasn't kicked out for anti semitism but for bringing the party into disrepute. I think many members object on the grounds others have done far more to bring the party into disrepute so it is a targeted decision rather than a just one.
But it says this too
Before beginning the process of expulsion the Association should consider whether
the member should first be suspended. This provides a mechanism whereby the
member concerned can be immediately but temporarily removed from the Party,
pending the occurrence of an action e.g. formal expulsion proceedings, an
investigation, a police investigation or a criminal trial. Suspension must not be used as
a disciplinary sanction in itself.
Goodness only knows if the doc I found with 5 seconds of googling still applies, or does apply in this situation, or if the central party has different powers.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjb1vi2-93aAhWlC8AKHclzA8MQFggvMAE&url=https://www.macclesfieldconservatives.org.uk/sites/www.macclesfieldconservatives.org.uk/files/2017-03/Guidelines%20for%20Conservative%20Associations%20Undertaking%20the%20Suspension%20or%20Expulsion%20of%20a%20Member%20of%20The%20Conservative%20Party_0.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2IfRmAzJgqHYmWcJu5DSCT
I’m sure everyone will just rejoice at that news.
There is no betrayal. We are leaving the EU. Everything else is up for grabs.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/child-obesity-and-excess-weight-small-area-level-data
There looks like a close correlation between high childhood obesity and poor immigrant communities.
So Brexitism is all about keeping the foreigners out after all?
I thought it was something to do with ‘globalising’ free trade. I thought that because I read it right here on PB!
My comment:
I don't mind how slowly we leave, as long as the change of course happens. If it's really only BINO, then I shall be a Labour voter in spite of my intense dislike of everything Mr Corbyn seems to value.
edited to try to correct blockquotes (failed)
Manchester is slipping from Labour, they used have all 96 seats a couple of years ago.
Night all
I can’t open your link for some reason.
London is the slenderest of all UK regions, so I suspect there are a handful of wards here that buck the trend.
Overall, we are a slim place! All that walking from the tube and bus stop, probably, and low car ownership!
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/0/englands-obesity-hotspots-does-area-compare/amp/
My comment:
I don't mind how slowly we leave, as long as the change of course happens. If it's really only BINO, then I shall be a Labour voter in spite of my intense dislike of everything Mr Corbyn seems to value.
edited to try to correct blockquotes (failed)
We are all Binos now
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/mar/27/weaponise-the-meaning-of-2017s-political-buzzword
I don't altogether have time now to do this justice, and won't tomorrow - but
I'd hope not that many are actively pro-Assad, though some. I doubt many actively support his killing of Palestinians. That wasn't my point. If Israel kills 15 Palestinians (who are, by and by, part of a large group carrying makeshift weapons and openly attempting to rush the border and 'take back their land'), and Syria kills 30 (largely civilian) Palestinians as part of indiscriminate bombing of a settlement which has been captured by an opposition group, and someone's first instinct is to go out on two protests - one against Israel, and one against the UK degrading Syria's military capabilities, that person is probably motivated by something other than concern for Palestinians.
It is possible to see Assad as the least worst viable option, I think we're broadly in agreement on that as a coherent viewpoint whether it's right or wrong. I'd argue it's also possible to see Likud as a lesser evil than Hamas, even ignoring that displacing Likud in favour of something more conducive to a long-term peace settlement seems an order of magnitude more likely than does getting anything other than, let alone better than, Hamas.
This feels substantive: I think if wars fought 70 and 50 years ago had led to the loss of land, in particular loss of land by the aggressor nation(s), and the combatants were the same broad racial group as each other, it might have been resolved on all sides by now.
I'm not sure how many Germans campaign for the return of Danzig from Poland but I'm imagining not many, though I know 'displaced Germans' had their own movement. The Armenians are as Christian as you can get, but their loss over generations of almost all their historic homeland, with a genocide into the bargain, is basically met with a global assumption that they can lump it. There aren't that many analogies as not many national movements claim the entirety of a disputed territory - even the IRA wouldn't (as such) demand that Protestants leave Ireland, for example, and the full analogy would really be if they wanted to abolish the UK, rather than merely remove part of it. It's complicated.
If anything I think the perception that "Jews are White, Arabs are not" feeds the anti-Israel narrative on the left as they are able to convince themselves they are "standing up for the oppressed", rather ignoring that Israel is about the size of Wales and the Arab League is collectively larger than the USA. Your view may differ, I'm sure.
Control of our borders which means numbers and who we let in,simple for you
.
I believe he will destroy, inadvertently or not, a lot of things this country has taken for granted. But the little people have been taken for granted too long.
If the referendum result is ignored, then it's time to cut our losses and start again, and the quickest way to do that is to employ a wrecker.
Its the poor who have kids in inner London.
I’m not a fan of Corbyn. You didn’t answer my point. If you loath where you live so much, why stay there? I was brought up in a horrible place. I left.
Update - MSNBC is now covering the WHCA dinner red carpet too.
Tells you all you need to know.
The higher levels of inequality and lower levels of home ownership which it has are not things I approve of.
If you are able to look at that ONS data on child obesity you will see it is at high levels in every Tower Hamlets ward - the same area where the vast wealth of Canary Wharf is located.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/28/labour-push-seize-territory-from-tories-local-elections
https://twitter.com/JohnnyMercerUK/status/990343507108917248
No rush to reply, I shall just declare victory in your absence, also had to leave earlier myself.
I don't doubt there could be an element who do not have the greatest of intentions, maybe some anti Western interfence but then look more kindly on other countries such as say Russia doing the same, which on a case by case basis could be justified but as an overall approach would be hypocritcal at best.
I suppose anti semites could protest both Israel and then our interventions against Syria but I would imagine most people who are happily (even if only to themselves) anti semitic would be satisfied with just protesting against Israel, they could also protest against Syria intervention but presumably that would be based on something other than their anti semitic views. There are users on PB who have both complained about Israels actions and were against intervention in Syria. They may not have protested those things but surely the difference there comes down to willingness to put some energy behind your beliefs in that situation.
I think there probably are some dodgy types in stop the war but it also used to contain people like Caroline Lucas (who left because of some views/actions she wasn't happy with) so I imagine it has plenty of fairly nice people in it who are anti intervention and feel the west actions and support around the world causes a lot of negative repercussions.
The Likud/Hamas thing doesn't really line up with the Assad thing that well IMO as it is a civil war versus the elected representatives of two groups of people. Hamas pretty much were created by Israel's actions so the best way to combat them would be to change Israel's actions. Changing Hamas would do little to actually change the situation as Israel controls the situation.
1/2
I do agree there may be an element of Jewish people are not seen as the victims in the way others are. If we are talking someone getting abuse for being Jewish then that to me is just as bad as someone getting abuse for being black. Although in the case of Israel despite its small land area I don't think the same case can really be made for it. We can disagree on whether the Israeli's or the Palestinian's are the good guys or the bad guys or probably more accurately those in charge of the states actions but I don't think anyone can really argue the Israeli's are the victims in the conflict between them and Palestine.
You (not that you actually do) might think the Palestinians are the bad guys and had it coming but regardless of your (same disclaimer) views it is hard to paint the Israeli's as the victims in the conflict.
The British certainly weren't bullied by many of our larger colonies!
2/2
The overall weakness in the city is emphasised by finishing third in Fulwood, the sort of area the Conservatives might expect to do better in.
OK the recent land issue is a relatively minor part in the grand scheme of a peace settlement. There'll be some land swaps - note that for all the expansion of some settlements in the West Bank, the IDF also ethnically cleansed Gaza at gunpoint to satisfy the Palestinians that there were no more Jews there. Some thanks they got.
For the moment there's a perverse incentive, until the Palestinians are ready to come to the peace table, the more entrenched the settlements are made the harder it will be to argue that the peace settlement has to mean dismantling them, and the more Israel will be seen as "giving up" if they are.
I'm not sure you can paint the Israelis as "the victims", though you can certainly paint them as the intended victims - Arab commanders explicitly described their initial invasion of the new state as "a war of extermination". The point isn't about them being victims, it's about there being a place, for the first time in two thousand years, where Jews will be allowed to fight back, so that they aren't eternal victims.