Okay, I'm now totally baffled by this Windrush story. The Six O'Clock News has just shown one guy who did have a British passport and was refused from getting a new one. WTF have the Home Office been playing at?
They are implementing the law as changed by Theresa May.
Lots of Labour abstentions on Corbyn's Syria motion today. Some Labour MPs don't seem to have understood why they were being asked to vote against their own motion, so did not bother. Corbyn having another shocker today. No doubt BJO will be along to say it aint so and that the abstainers are just anti Corbyn.
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
Eh? Are you actually saying Mann is standing up to say his wife has had rape threats because he doesn't agree politically with Corbyn?
Sadly threats and abuse online are part of modern life, I believe Dianne Abbott is the number one target. Anti-semitic trolls vie with a lot of others in their repulsiveness.
Always looking to draw those equivalences eh, Foxy.
Dianne Abbott gets abuse, no doubt, a lot of it is because she says and does stupid things.
She gets plenty of racism abuse Max, come on
No doubt about it, I didn't say otherwise. My point is that she gets abuse for being a stupid person as well.
What did John Mann's wife do other than oppose racism? She didn't say or do anything inflammatory. Remember Dianne Abbott has a lot of choice quotes "white people use divide and rule" comes to mind.
Also, I've heard her categorise abuse and sometimes it really is just people disagreeing with her views.
That's not to say she isn't subject to vile racist abuse, I just don't think it is comparable to someone's getting death and rape threats for opposing racism.
Mr. Roger, before the war properly kicked off but was a definite possibility I remember seeing a news segment featuring a Christian priest. He was hoping there would be no war because of the relatively high levels of tolerance Assad (being a minority Alawite) allowed for other religions.
Given it had looked like being a choice between Assad and ISIS (or similar) I can see why many would support him. However, polling Syrians fairly would be something of a challenge and I wouldn't take the numbers too seriously.
When looking back at medieval kings, modern people often criticise their harshness. But at the time, that was often a cause for popularity and respect. It's possible that if people believe Assad has used chemical weapons to help win the war, they actually approve of it. They've had grinding war for seven years now. Many people may simply want it to end and something approaching normality to return.
Okay, I'm now totally baffled by this Windrush story. The Six O'Clock News has just shown one guy who did have a British passport and was refused from getting a new one. WTF have the Home Office been playing at?
They are implementing the law as changed by Theresa May.
What a disgraceful first reaction. Your apparent refusal - unlike posters like SO - to criticise the disgusting behaviour of your own party, until you’re called out on it, does you no credit. You ought to be better than that. Ignore who the messenger is and listen to the message.
Or perhaps watch the last item on the BBC News at 10 last night about an elderly woman freed from Belsen returning for the first time to remember those who did not survive and listen to what she said about ensuring that people remembered what had happened and did not deny it.
And then reflect on your leader who travels with Holocaust deniers to visit dictators who slaughter their own people, including children as young as she was when she was sent to Belsen. And remember that the attitudes and views he is comfortable with or turns a blind eye to are what lead to monstrosities like that camp, and worse.
Mr. Owls, what do you make of John Mann saying his wife has been threatened with rape by far left activists, in revenge for him speaking out about anti-semitism?
Whoever said it should be arrested. Surely it was reported to the Police.
If they are a Labour Party Member they should be expelled.
Racism, such as antisemitism, is a poison. If you do not treat it early, it hurts and damages. For some reason, the Labour party has chosen to allow it to infect and fester.
Your attitude, as shown on a few posts ago, is telling. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
If the allegations made by the MPs have been reported to the Police.
They should be investigated and Arrests made
Any Labour party members involved in abuse should be expelled
As i just said
Are you deaf or just the dumber to my dumb
I'll leave it up to others to decide how dumb I am. What I will say is that you and Dr Fox have utterly misjudged the tone of this debate in your attempts to defend Corbyn and Labour.
Well for a start my list was aimed more at the MPs contributions in the Syria debate yesterday and in particular todays Corbyn one on Parliament having a say before military action ( which would have passed but for their votes.)
I accept the timing of my post was lousy if we have genuine stories of abuse of MPs
I Condemn all abuse of MPs but if some of the stuff reported by the MPs in this debate happened what the fuck are the police playing at.
Why is the person threatening rape not on his way to jail
OT. I see the BBC are getting a pasting from Sir Cliff. I'm a big fan of Auntie but in this instance they behaved deplorably and out of character.
If things weren't bad enough for the BBC Sir Cliff has Gloria Hunniford in his corner. I've worked with her and he couldn't be better served. She's not only transparently decent but she also carries an air of steely integrity rare in most people particularly the well known.
The beeb have form on this. Remember Lord MacAlpine?
Eh? Are you actually saying Mann is standing up to say his wife has had rape threats because he doesn't agree politically with Corbyn?
Sadly threats and abuse online are part of modern life, I believe Dianne Abbott is the number one target. Anti-semitic trolls vie with a lot of others in their repulsiveness.
Citation required. Who is responsible for keeping track of this rather sad league table? The Commons?
List aside, Diane has spoken quite compellingly about (predominantly) racism she receives.
And we should not downplay that. There are plenty of reasons to criticise Diane Abbott without descending to racism (as indeed there are all MPs without resorting to 'isms).
However Dr Fox bringing it up in response to this debate in an attempt to downplay it is a little odd. Another CorbyniteLib Dem who is utter denial.
I have never denied that there is an anti-semetic streak in some of the far left, just pointing out that online threats for fairly pathetic reasons are par for the course in modern life.
Mr. Owls, what do you make of John Mann saying his wife has been threatened with rape by far left activists, in revenge for him speaking out about anti-semitism?
Whoever said it should be arrested. Surely it was reported to the Police.
If they are a Labour Party Member they should be expelled.
Racism, such as antisemitism, is a poison. If you do not treat it early, it hurts and damages. For some reason, the Labour party has chosen to allow it to infect and fester.
Your attitude, as shown on a few posts ago, is telling. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
If the allegations made by the MPs have been reported to the Police.
They should be investigated and Arrests made
Any Labour party members involved in abuse should be expelled
As i just said
Are you deaf or just the dumber to my dumb
I'll leave it up to others to decide how dumb I am. What I will say is that you and Dr Fox have utterly misjudged the tone of this debate in your attempts to defend Corbyn and Labour.
Well for a start my list was aimed more at the MPs contributions in the Syria debate yesterday and in particular todays Corbyn one on Parliament having a say before military action ( which would have passed but for their votes.)
I accept the timing of my post was lousy if we have genuine stories of abuse of MPs
I Condemn all abuse of MPs but if some of the stuff reported by the MPs in this debate happened what the fuck are the police playing at.
Why is the person threatening rape not on his way to jail
I know you would have been horrified if you had been able to listen to this most disturbing debate
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
I suspect that if you surveyed Germans in 1942 you would have found a very high level approval for the Fuhrer. It doesn't mean people are telling the truth when going against the regime can mean death.
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
Define “country”. Syria before the civil war or the bits he now controls or just the population left.
I dare say May could get the support of 70% of the population if she could slaughter all those who opposed her.
Anyway, I'm off. If this isn't in the top few stories on the news at ten, then whoever decides the running order is a ****ing idiot at best. And on that cheery note, do play nicely.
Eh? Are you actually saying Mann is standing up to say his wife has had rape threats because he doesn't agree politically with Corbyn?
Sadly threats and abuse online are part of modern life, I believe Dianne Abbott is the number one target. Anti-semitic trolls vie with a lot of others in their repulsiveness.
Citation required. Who is responsible for keeping track of this rather sad league table? The Commons?
List aside, Diane has spoken quite compellingly about (predominantly) racism she receives.
And we should not downplay that. There are plenty of reasons to criticise Diane Abbott without descending to racism (as indeed there are all MPs without resorting to 'isms).
However Dr Fox bringing it up in response to this debate in an attempt to downplay it is a little odd. Another CorbyniteLib Dem who is utter denial.
I have never denied that there is an anti-semetic streak in some of the far left, just pointing out that online threats for fairly pathetic reasons are par for the course in modern life.
Still nothing on the BBC about this (front page or Politics). A little time to write stuff up is fair enough, but this is nearly an hour old.
As you yourself said last night's BBC News at 10 was a masterclass in making May look like she was under pressure during the Syria Debate whilst failing to mention that Corbyn was hammered from both sides of the House. Lets see if the BBC can muster a little more balance today.
Mr. Owls, what do you make of John Mann saying his wife has been threatened with rape by far left activists, in revenge for him speaking out about anti-semitism?
Whoever said it should be arrested. Surely it was reported to the Police.
If they are a Labour Party Member they should be expelled.
Racism, such as antisemitism, is a poison. If you do not treat it early, it hurts and damages. For some reason, the Labour party has chosen to allow it to infect and fester.
Your attitude, as shown on a few posts ago, is telling. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
If the allegations made by the MPs have been reported to the Police.
They should be investigated and Arrests made
Any Labour party members involved in abuse should be expelled
As i just said
Are you deaf or just the dumber to my dumb
It is ludicrous that you cannot recognise that this is currently systemic in be Labour Party and that on refusing to condemn you are making yourself complicit.
Still nothing on the BBC about this (front page or Politics). A little time to write stuff up is fair enough, but this is nearly an hour old.
As you yourself said last night's BBC News at 10 was a masterclass in making May look like she was under pressure during the Syria Debate whilst failing to mention that Corbyn was hammered from both sides of the House. Lets see if the BBC can muster a little more balance today.
The Corbynistas certainly should be thankful to the BBC for their (lack of) coverage these past two days.
Off topic but close to my heart: I see that various PB'ers were being described as being on the autism spectrum on the previous thread as well as Mrs May.
** Rant mode ON **
I really hate this sort of cod-diagnosis. Being not v good with people or very interested in a particular topic is not a mental illness and this tendency to label quirks and eccentricities as a disease does a disservice to those who really do suffer from such mental illnesses. (The same can be said of fussy eaters claiming to have an "allergy" when the reality is they just don't like a particular food.)
As the mother of a child with OCD it really bugs me - and him - when people say they are a "little bit OCD" just because they like to tidy their books alphabetically or whatever. OCD is not about excessive tidiness. It's a horrible condition which causes real pain - think of someone banging their head against a wall - literally - for hours at a time to try and banish dark thoughts or self-harming to the point of attempting suicide. It can be managed. But provision for it - certainly in the NHS - is poor and if not treated it has a high mortality rate. People who like lining up their mugs in a particular way have no fucking idea what being OCD is like!
Being interested in politics more than the normal person makes one intelligent not weird. Not being very good with strangers makes one shy and reserved not mentally ill. Not everyone can be a Princess Diana and politics needs all sorts of skills. Mrs May has some and not others. That just means that she is human and is, IMO, over-promoted. Sometimes she can be very good; at other times she has a tin ear for the human side. She is much like many people in positions of leadership in both the private and public sectors.
I can't comment on PB'ers other than those I've met. And I'm not going to. But they seem to cover a range of interesting opinions and experiences (which makes this website one of the best there is) and some seem to be both fun and kind.
** Rant mode off now (and apologies for the intemperate language) **
Being on the autism spectrum is not a mental illness or disease, nor more than being short tempered is. It is a difference in certain behaviours and has many positives as @tyson pointed out.
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
Define “country”. Syria before the civil war or the bits he now controls or just the population left.
I dare say May could get the support of 70% of the population if she could slaughter all those who opposed her.
In the real world , it is a hard choice of Assad or a black flag flying over Damascus .
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Eh? Are you actually saying Mann is standing up to say his wife has had rape threats because he doesn't agree politically with Corbyn?
Sadly threats and abuse online are part of modern life, I believe Dianne Abbott is the number one target. Anti-semitic trolls vie with a lot of others in their repulsiveness.
Citation required. Who is responsible for keeping track of this rather sad league table? The Commons?
List aside, Diane has spoken quite compellingly about (predominantly) racism she receives.
And we should not downplay that. There are plenty of reasons to criticise Diane Abbott without descending to racism (as indeed there are all MPs without resorting to 'isms).
However Dr Fox bringing it up in response to this debate in an attempt to downplay it is a little odd. Another CorbyniteLib Dem who is utter denial.
I have never denied that there is an anti-semetic streak in some of the far left, just pointing out that online threats for fairly pathetic reasons are par for the course in modern life.
What a disgraceful first reaction. Your apparent refusal - unlike posters like SO - to criticise the disgusting behaviour of your own party, until you’re called out on it, does you no credit. You ought to be better than that. Ignore who the messenger is and listen to the message.
Or perhaps watch the last item on the BBC News at 10 last night about an elderly woman freed from Belsen returning for the first time to remember those who did not survive and listen to what she said about ensuring that people remembered what had happened and did not deny it.
And then reflect on your leader who travels with Holocaust deniers to visit dictators who slaughter their own people, including children as young as she was when she was sent to Belsen. And remember that the attitudes and views he is comfortable with or turns a blind eye to are what lead to monstrosities like that camp, and worse.
We get you are a Corbyn hater.
The messenger is important.
IMO Corbyn is not an Anti Semite.
In yours he is.
Fine you are entitled to your opinion and me mine.
Still nothing on the BBC about this (front page or Politics). A little time to write stuff up is fair enough, but this is nearly an hour old.
As you yourself said last night's BBC News at 10 was a masterclass in making May look like she was under pressure during the Syria Debate whilst failing to mention that Corbyn was hammered from both sides of the House. Lets see if the BBC can muster a little more balance today.
The Corbynistas certainly should be thankful to the BBC for their (lack of) coverage these past two days.
My anger is rising. The blatant protecting of Labour by the BBC is beyond belief. If there was an equivalent split and evidence of racism in the Tories it would be wall to wall coverage. Labour needs to be forced to lance the boil -even if it means splitting.
Three posts in a row (The_Apocalypse, Foxy, bigjohnowls) that amply demonstrate the problem with the current Labour Party when even moderates engage in whataboutism.
I believe the orthodox Marxist position is, at the current juncture, that almost nothing that happens (except the class struggle) matters very much. Almost everything bad that happens is just the sort of thing you would expect to arise out of the contradictions and excesses of late capitalism; there's no way of fixing it under capitalism and there will be nothing to fix after the revolution. So if a Windrush child is in danger of being deported, so what? It's a clear illustration of the imminence of the End Times, but concern for the individual is bourgeois sentimentality and just a waste of valuable time.
I find myself thinking, surely people like Milne and Corbyn cannot seriously believe such nonsense, but then I think that 50% of the population believe in some form of god.
' The threat of a potential vote to leave the EU in June could be partly to blame for the first rise in unemployment in seven months, the work and pensions secretary has warned.
Stephen Crabb said the latest labour report, which showed the unemployment total rose by 21,000 in the three months to February to 1.7 million, was a signal that the looming EU referendum vote was hitting the jobs market. '
by hiking income tax, NO alcohol MAYBE and petrol duties NO and making massive cuts to the NHS, NO (in cash terms) schools MAYBE and defence. NO
820,000 jobs lost within two years NO including 520,000 in a year NO Leave vote would cause an "immediate and profound" economic shock, with growth between 3% and 6% lower. NO it suggests sterling would fall by 12% YES BUT NOW NO average wages would fall by 2.8% NO house prices would be hit by 10%. NO
CPI +2.3 percentage points NO but some rise Public sector net borrowing (Fiscal year 2017-18) +£24bn NOT AGAINST FORECAST
households would be £4,300 a year worse off, and the economy 6% smaller by 2030. TOO EARLY TO TELL
Well done, it's hard to believe such clever people lost.
They were Conservatives, Mr GLW, so they deserved to lose.
Still nothing on the BBC about this (front page or Politics). A little time to write stuff up is fair enough, but this is nearly an hour old.
As you yourself said last night's BBC News at 10 was a masterclass in making May look like she was under pressure during the Syria Debate whilst failing to mention that Corbyn was hammered from both sides of the House. Lets see if the BBC can muster a little more balance today.
The Corbynistas certainly should be thankful to the BBC for their (lack of) coverage these past two days.
My anger is rising. The blatant protecting of Labour by the BBC is beyond belief. If there was an equivalent split and evidence of racism in the Tories it would be wall to wall coverage. Labour needs to be forced to lance the boil -even if it means splitting.
Perhaps. Alternatively they are taking the view that it's not as important as Labour are the opposition.
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
Define “country”. Syria before the civil war or the bits he now controls or just the population left.
I dare say May could get the support of 70% of the population if she could slaughter all those who opposed her.
In the real world , it is a hard choice of Assad or a black flag flying over Damascus .
I was talking at lunch with a Syrian colleague of mine, who has got into mountains of debt by paying for relatives to escape from Syria, and had some distant relatives gassed by Assad in 2013. Even he agrees that Assad is better than most of the opposition.
Eh? Are you actually saying Mann is standing up to say his wife has had rape threats because he doesn't agree politically with Corbyn?
Sadly threats and abuse online are part of modern life, I believe Dianne Abbott is the number one target. Anti-semitic trolls vie with a lot of others in their repulsiveness.
Citation required. Who is responsible for keeping track of this rather sad league table? The Commons?
List aside, Diane has spoken quite compellingly about (predominantly) racism she receives.
And we should not downplay that. There are plenty of reasons to criticise Diane Abbott without descending to racism (as indeed there are all MPs without resorting to 'isms).
However Dr Fox bringing it up in response to this debate in an attempt to downplay it is a little odd. Another CorbyniteLib Dem who is utter denial.
I have never denied that there is an anti-semetic streak in some of the far left, just pointing out that online threats for fairly pathetic reasons are par for the course in modern life.
This debate will have consequencies for labour and you seem to be trying to play it down
Lectures on prejudice from the party harrassing and threatening elderly legal British residents with deportation are not worth listening to.
You do realise the attack is labour on labour. I have utterly condemned my own party over their dealings over Windrush. Will you now do the same to Corbyn
Eh? Are you actually saying Mann is standing up to say his wife has had rape threats because he doesn't agree politically with Corbyn?
Sadly threats and abuse online are part of modern life, I believe Dianne Abbott is the number one target. Anti-semitic trolls vie with a lot of others in their repulsiveness.
Citation required. Who is responsible for keeping track of this rather sad league table? The Commons?
List aside, Diane has spoken quite compellingly about (predominantly) racism she receives.
And we should not downplay that. There are plenty of reasons to criticise Diane Abbott without descending to racism (as indeed there are all MPs without resorting to 'isms).
However Dr Fox bringing it up in response to this debate in an attempt to downplay it is a little odd. Another CorbyniteLib Dem who is utter denial.
I have never denied that there is an anti-semetic streak in some of the far left, just pointing out that online threats for fairly pathetic reasons are par for the course in modern life.
Three posts in a row (The_Apocalypse, Foxy, bigjohnowls) that amply demonstrate the problem with the current Labour Party when even moderates engage in whataboutism.
I wouldn’t call myself a moderate.
I haven’t voted Labour since 2015, so I don’t see how anything I say reflects Labour.
I don’t see how it’s whataboutism either. It’s just the reality that this isn’t going to get a lot of media coverage because of the governments own issues, which has also limited their ability to be any morally better than Labour.
Eh? Are you actually saying Mann is standing up to say his wife has had rape threats because he doesn't agree politically with Corbyn?
Sadly threats and abuse online are part of modern life, I believe Dianne Abbott is the number one target. Anti-semitic trolls vie with a lot of others in their repulsiveness.
Citation required. Who is responsible for keeping track of this rather sad league table? The Commons?
List aside, Diane has spoken quite compellingly about (predominantly) racism she receives.
And we should not downplay that. There are plenty of reasons to criticise Diane Abbott without descending to racism (as indeed there are all MPs without resorting to 'isms).
However Dr Fox bringing it up in response to this debate in an attempt to downplay it is a little odd. Another CorbyniteLib Dem who is utter denial.
I have never denied that there is an anti-semetic streak in some of the far left, just pointing out that online threats for fairly pathetic reasons are par for the course in modern life.
This debate will have consequencies for labour and you seem to be trying to play it down
Lectures on prejudice from the party harrassing and threatening elderly legal British residents with deportation are not worth listening to.
You do realise the attack is labour on labour. I have utterly condemned my own party over their dealings over Windrush. Will you now do the same to Corbyn
I refer you to my post of 18.03 tonight where I condemn anti-Semitic trolls.
Still nothing on the BBC about this (front page or Politics). A little time to write stuff up is fair enough, but this is nearly an hour old.
As you yourself said last night's BBC News at 10 was a masterclass in making May look like she was under pressure during the Syria Debate whilst failing to mention that Corbyn was hammered from both sides of the House. Lets see if the BBC can muster a little more balance today.
The Corbynistas certainly should be thankful to the BBC for their (lack of) coverage these past two days.
My anger is rising. The blatant protecting of Labour by the BBC is beyond belief. If there was an equivalent split and evidence of racism in the Tories it would be wall to wall coverage. Labour needs to be forced to lance the boil -even if it means splitting.
Chill, or widen the scope of your anger. Sky news and the front page of the Torygraph have no more to say about it than the beeb.
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
The thing about that story (no1) is that it doesn't ring true. The one thing we know about human behaviour is that no one does anything without a reason. The reason might not be valid but there has to be a reason. Why would the Syrian government pick up an arbitrary woman jail her and get five soldiers to rape her in every orifice. There must be a reason yet none is offered.
And if it is true why would anyone support the Assad government let alone a majority of Syrians? Most Syrians I know are very nice people
' The ZEW Indicator of Economic Sentiment for Germany once again experienced a sharp decline in April 2018, dropping by 13.3 points compared to March and even 26.0 points compared to February. The indicator currently stands at minus 8.2 points, falling far below the long-term average of 23.5 points. '
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
Eh? Are you actually saying Mann is standing up to say his wife has had rape threats because he doesn't agree politically with Corbyn?
Sadly threats and abuse online are part of modern life, I believe Dianne Abbott is the number one target. Anti-semitic trolls vie with a lot of others in their repulsiveness.
Citation required. Who is responsible for keeping track of this rather sad league table? The Commons?
List aside, Diane has spoken quite compellingly about (predominantly) racism she receives.
And we should not downplay that. There are plenty of reasons to criticise Diane Abbott without descending to racism (as indeed there are all MPs without resorting to 'isms).
However Dr Fox bringing it up in response to this debate in an attempt to downplay it is a little odd. Another CorbyniteLib Dem who is utter denial.
I have never denied that there is an anti-semetic streak in some of the far left, just pointing out that online threats for fairly pathetic reasons are par for the course in modern life.
The BBC rightly gave loads of coverage to the scandal of antisemitism in Labour some weeks ago on their website and later on the news channel. So I doubt they are protecting Labour.
Mr. Owls, what do you make of John Mann saying his wife has been threatened with rape by far left activists, in revenge for him speaking out about anti-semitism?
Whoever said it should be arrested. Surely it was reported to the Police.
If they are a Labour Party Member they should be expelled.
Racism, such as antisemitism, is a poison. If you do not treat it early, it hurts and damages. For some reason, the Labour party has chosen to allow it to infect and fester.
Your attitude, as shown on a few posts ago, is telling. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
If the allegations made by the MPs have been reported to the Police.
They should be investigated and Arrests made
Any Labour party members involved in abuse should be expelled
As i just said
Are you deaf or just the dumber to my dumb
It is ludicrous that you cannot recognise that this is currently systemic in be Labour Party and that on refusing to condemn you are making yourself complicit.
You missed my condemnation of abuse at 6.24
I have said on loads of occasion any genuine Anti Semitism is unacceptable.
Mr. Owls, what do you make of John Mann saying his wife has been threatened with rape by far left activists, in revenge for him speaking out about anti-semitism?
Whoever said it should be arrested. Surely it was reported to the Police.
If they are a Labour Party Member they should be expelled.
Racism, such as antisemitism, is a poison. If you do not treat it early, it hurts and damages. For some reason, the Labour party has chosen to allow it to infect and fester.
Your attitude, as shown on a few posts ago, is telling. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
If the allegations made by the MPs have been reported to the Police.
They should be investigated and Arrests made
Any Labour party members involved in abuse should be expelled
As i just said
Are you deaf or just the dumber to my dumb
I'll leave it up to others to decide how dumb I am. What I will say is that you and Dr Fox have utterly misjudged the tone of this debate in your attempts to defend Corbyn and Labour.
Well for a start my list was aimed more at the MPs contributions in the Syria debate yesterday and in particular todays Corbyn one on Parliament having a say before military action ( which would have passed but for their votes.)
I accept the timing of my post was lousy if we have genuine stories of abuse of MPs
I Condemn all abuse of MPs but if some of the stuff reported by the MPs in this debate happened what the fuck are the police playing at.
Why is the person threatening rape not on his way to jail
If you actually listened to the debate you would have heard Berger say that people had already been jailed for the abuse directed against her, and that others were under investigation (I hope I've got that right).
Yet it doesn't seem to have stemmed the abuse, for the reasons you so amply show. It's not antisemitism, it's because the MP doesn't like the anointed one.
What a disgraceful first reaction. Your apparent refusal - unlike posters like SO - to criticise the disgusting behaviour of your own party, until you’re called out on it, does you no credit. You ought to be better than that. Ignore who the messenger is and listen to the message.
Or perhaps watch the last item on the BBC News at 10 last night about an elderly woman freed from Belsen returning for the first time to remember those who did not survive and listen to what she said about ensuring that people remembered what had happened and did not deny it.
And then reflect on your leader who travels with Holocaust deniers to visit dictators who slaughter their own people, including children as young as she was when she was sent to Belsen. And remember that the attitudes and views he is comfortable with or turns a blind eye to are what lead to monstrosities like that camp, and worse.
We get you are a Corbyn hater.
The messenger is important.
IMO Corbyn is not an Anti Semite.
In yours he is.
Fine you are entitled to your opinion and me mine.
Actually I have never accused him of being an anti-Semite himself. I do think, though, he is incapable of recognising it however when it arises from the ideology he supports.
And you are wrong in focusing on the messenger. It is exactly the same mistake made by those who ignore the concerns of whistleblowers because they may have mixed motives or those who would not listen to abused girls or to the far right politicians who mentioned the problem.
You look at the facts and the facts are that there has been a disturbing increase in anti-semitic abuse within the Labour party directed at Jewish members of the party and other Jews. This isn’t a matter of opinion. The fact that you are choosing to ignore such facts and attack those in your own party and others who point this out does you no credit at all. If you really were concerned about this you would, like SO, call it out not rush to defend Corbyn for his abysmal failure to stand up for the anti-racism principles he claims to believe in.
' The ZEW Indicator of Economic Sentiment for Germany once again experienced a sharp decline in April 2018, dropping by 13.3 points compared to March and even 26.0 points compared to February. The indicator currently stands at minus 8.2 points, falling far below the long-term average of 23.5 points. '
Is it? Far too much is excused because one likes the messenger, and plenty is condemned because of the messenger too, that is true, but claiming the message is ok, or not, because one thinks the messenger is ok, or not, makes it look like there is no objective truth at all, and in some of these issues there can be. That is, could someone be the first cousin to Jesus in most things, but still terrible on another? Absolutely, and vice versa.
It's not easy for any of us, certainly there are people and positions I instinctively lean toward, it would be silly to claim otherwise, but the messenger really isn't as important as the message, and some truths are self evident no matter the messenger.
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
You may not be, but plenty of people I know are. Tbh I’m not optimistic re Labour really tackling anti semitism either. I was hopeful after Momentum’s statement earlier on, but now after hearing stories about Lansman et al I don’t see that there’s a will to take action.
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
The thing about that story (no1) is that it doesn't ring true. The one thing we know about human behaviour is that no one does anything without a reason. The reason might not be valid but there has to be a reason. Why would the Syrian government pick up an arbitrary woman jail her and get five soldiers to rape her in every orifice. There must be a reason yet none is offered.
And if it is true why would anyone support the Assad government let alone a majority of Syrians? Most Syrians I know are very nice people
Why would they have arrested, tortured and murdered some kids who put up a bit of graffiti ? Which is where the whole civil war mess began.
If you are looking for a reason, it is that authoritarian dictatorships employ more than their fair share of sadists. There are good and bad people in all societies; some have better arrangements for controlling the behaviour of the latter.
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
You may not be, but plenty of people I know are. Tbh I’m not optimistic re Labour really tackling anti semitism either. I was hopeful after Momentum’s statement earlier on, but now after hearing stories about Lansman et al I don’t see that there’s a will to take action.
Mr. Owls, what do you make of John Mann saying his wife has been threatened with rape by far left activists, in revenge for him speaking out about anti-semitism?
Whoever said it should be arrested. Surely it was reported to the Police.
If they are a Labour Party Member they should be expelled.
Racism, such as antisemitism, is a poison. If you do not treat it early, it hurts and damages. For some reason, the Labour party has chosen to allow it to infect and fester.
Your attitude, as shown on a few posts ago, is telling. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
If the allegations made by the MPs have been reported to the Police.
They should be investigated and Arrests made
Any Labour party members involved in abuse should be expelled
As i just said
Are you deaf or just the dumber to my dumb
I'll leave it up to others to decide how dumb I am. What I will say is that you and Dr Fox have utterly misjudged the tone of this debate in your attempts to defend Corbyn and Labour.
Well for a start my list was aimed more at the MPs contributions in the Syria debate yesterday and in particular todays Corbyn one on Parliament having a say before military action ( which would have passed but for their votes.)
I accept the timing of my post was lousy if we have genuine stories of abuse of MPs
I Condemn all abuse of MPs but if some of the stuff reported by the MPs in this debate happened what the fuck are the police playing at.
Why is the person threatening rape not on his way to jail
If you actually listened to the debate you would have heard Berger say that people had already been jailed for the abuse directed against her, and that others were under investigation (I hope I've got that right).
Yet it doesn't seem to have stemmed the abuse, for the reasons you so amply show. It's not antisemitism, it's because the MP doesn't like the anointed one.
Wonder how many of those jailed were Labour members? Presumably from the tone of this thread all of them.
Hopefully if any of them were they will have been expelled for life.
The BBC rightly gave loads of coverage to the scandal of antisemitism in Labour some weeks ago on their website and later on the news channel. So I doubt they are protecting Labour.
It does seem doubtful. Windrush has been brewing up for several days, and Syria has captured attention as well.
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
You may not be, but plenty of people I know are. Tbh I’m not optimistic re Labour really tackling anti semitism either. I was hopeful after Momentum’s statement earlier on, but now after hearing stories about Lansman et al I don’t see that there’s a will to take action.
There was briefly a moment when there was that will, but it was ruined with that laughable "Corbyn is antisemitic because he had dinner with the wrong kind of Jews" story.
Overnight, I saw a lot of Labour members' Twitter feeds switch from "shit, maybe there really is an issue here" to "God, this just shows it's a right-wing media campaign who just want to get at Corbyn".
Eh? Are you actually saying Mann is standing up to say his wife has had rape threats because he doesn't agree politically with Corbyn?
Sadly threats and abuse online are part of modern life, I believe Dianne Abbott is the number one target. Anti-semitic trolls vie with a lot of others in their repulsiveness.
Citation required. Who is responsible for keeping track of this rather sad league table? The Commons?
List aside, Diane has spoken quite compellingly about (predominantly) racism she receives.
And we should not downplay that. There are plenty of reasons to criticise Diane Abbott without descending to racism (as indeed there are all MPs without resorting to 'isms).
However Dr Fox bringing it up in response to this debate in an attempt to downplay it is a little odd. Another CorbyniteLib Dem who is utter denial.
I have never denied that there is an anti-semetic streak in some of the far left, just pointing out that online threats for fairly pathetic reasons are par for the course in modern life.
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
You may not be, but plenty of people I know are. Tbh I’m not optimistic re Labour really tackling anti semitism either. I was hopeful after Momentum’s statement earlier on, but now after hearing stories about Lansman et al I don’t see that there’s a will to take action.
Lansman is Jewish himself.
And that means it is impossible they will not tackle things effectively?
OT. I see the BBC are getting a pasting from Sir Cliff. I'm a big fan of Auntie but in this instance they behaved deplorably and out of character.
If things weren't bad enough for the BBC Sir Cliff has Gloria Hunniford in his corner. I've worked with her and he couldn't be better served. She's not only transparently decent but she also carries an air of steely integrity rare in most people particularly the well known.
The beeb have form on this. Remember Lord MacAlpine?
Yes but there was a difference. In that case they believed they were following the evidence which is what all newsrooms are required to do. This was plain and simple prurience which is the preserve of The Sun The News of the World and other gutter publications
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
The thing about that story (no1) is that it doesn't ring true. The one thing we know about human behaviour is that no one does anything without a reason. The reason might not be valid but there has to be a reason. Why would the Syrian government pick up an arbitrary woman jail her and get five soldiers to rape her in every orifice. There must be a reason yet none is offered.
And if it is true why would anyone support the Assad government let alone a majority of Syrians? Most Syrians I know are very nice people
With apologies for following Godwin's Law:
And if it is true why would anyone support the Hitler government let alone a majority of Germans? Most Germans I know are very nice people
Substitute other countries as personal preference requies.
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
You may not be, but plenty of people I know are. Tbh I’m not optimistic re Labour really tackling anti semitism either. I was hopeful after Momentum’s statement earlier on, but now after hearing stories about Lansman et al I don’t see that there’s a will to take action.
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
You may not be, but plenty of people I know are.
Oh that is true, and I don't think you are concerned by side coming out as the more superior one either, I just hope that any lack of one side coming out as clearly morally superior, in all things, does not prevent actual progress. Energies being focused on the political side of things would be a waste, even if a certain level if inevitable.
Difficult day for Labour moderates. First Corbyn making an arse of himself once again opposing his own motion and our ability to act in our own interests then a debate on anti-Semitism laying bare the shameful canker at the heart of the modern Labour Party.
The days when embarrassment was your leader eating a bacon sandwich must seem a long, long way away.
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
You may not be, but plenty of people I know are. Tbh I’m not optimistic re Labour really tackling anti semitism either. I was hopeful after Momentum’s statement earlier on, but now after hearing stories about Lansman et al I don’t see that there’s a will to take action.
There was briefly a moment when there was that will, but it was ruined with that laughable "Corbyn is antisemitic because he had dinner with the wrong kind of Jews" story.
Overnight, I saw a lot of Labour members' Twitter feeds switch from "shit, maybe there really is an issue here" to "God, this just shows it's a right-wing media campaign who just want to get at Corbyn".
Ye, it's been overplayed to my mind. The Jewdas Seder was when it started to look like drivel
Dianne Abbott being shouted down - labour mps need to walk out now
What did she say , that needed shouted down ?
Watching her slightly behind real time, she is splendid. She goes on about "having" Haredi Jews in her constituency, like someone saying they keep chickens. The anger is that she is wittering on about them rather than the wider issue.
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
Define “country”. Syria before the civil war or the bits he now controls or just the population left.
I dare say May could get the support of 70% of the population if she could slaughter all those who opposed her.
In the real world , it is a hard choice of Assad or a black flag flying over Damascus .
I was talking at lunch with a Syrian colleague of mine, who has got into mountains of debt by paying for relatives to escape from Syria, and had some distant relatives gassed by Assad in 2013. Even he agrees that Assad is better than most of the opposition.
That is likely true. If the West was ever going to intervene in the civil war, it ought to have done so at the beginning. It is now an unholy mess, with the most significant players being the regional powers (and, of course, the Russians).
Has a country ever had a larger percentage of its population as refugees ?
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
The thing about that story (no1) is that it doesn't ring true. The one thing we know about human behaviour is that no one does anything without a reason. The reason might not be valid but there has to be a reason. Why would the Syrian government pick up an arbitrary woman jail her and get five soldiers to rape her in every orifice. There must be a reason yet none is offered.
And if it is true why would anyone support the Assad government let alone a majority of Syrians? Most Syrians I know are very nice people
Most interesting to hear impartial witnesses saying that Assad has the support of about 70% of his country. Not something we hear very often from our rather skewed media. From working many times in Beirut with Syrians not something I find surprising. The older Assad was feared but that was never the case with his son.
The thing about that story (no1) is that it doesn't ring true. The one thing we know about human behaviour is that no one does anything without a reason. The reason might not be valid but there has to be a reason. Why would the Syrian government pick up an arbitrary woman jail her and get five soldiers to rape her in every orifice. There must be a reason yet none is offered.
(Snip)
Some people are sick. As a rule of thumb, I'd say 1% of the population are angels, and 1% are utter scum. Many of them, sadly, what might be classes as 'functioning' scum, in that the rest of society does not generally get to know or see what they do.
It is important for society to try to detect these people, help them as much as possible, but most of all to prevent deter, or prevent harm from, their behaviour.
Also, there will be the Abu Ghraib factor: people ill-trained for work in jails and such close groups will sadly often tend to excesses. The less control there is, the greater the possible excesses. Witness also various 'care' homes and church organisations.
Dianne Abbott being shouted down - labour mps need to walk out now
What did she say , that needed shouted down ?
Just failed to address the fears of her fellow mps and waffled incompetently
Hardly new big g , for a clever lady , she has been incoherent for a while.However she does not deserve to be shouted down , in a democratic chamber, or the abuse she gets on the internet.
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
You may not be, but plenty of people I know are. Tbh I’m not optimistic re Labour really tackling anti semitism either. I was hopeful after Momentum’s statement earlier on, but now after hearing stories about Lansman et al I don’t see that there’s a will to take action.
There was briefly a moment when there was that will, but it was ruined with that laughable "Corbyn is antisemitic because he had dinner with the wrong kind of Jews" story.
Overnight, I saw a lot of Labour members' Twitter feeds switch from "shit, maybe there really is an issue here" to "God, this just shows it's a right-wing media campaign who just want to get at Corbyn".
Ye, it's been overplayed to my mind. The Jewdas Seder was when it started to look like drivel
The problem was there were claims they had said things which would suggest Corbyn was not taking the anti-semitism claims seriously, which would be a valid concern if proven, but Guido for instance was seemingly more concerned with them being a bunch of extreme leftists shouting about capitalism, which whether one supports that stance or not, is not really relevant.
Dianne Abbott being shouted down - labour mps need to walk out now
What did she say , that needed shouted down ?
Watching her slightly behind real time, she is splendid. She goes on about "having" Haredi Jews in her constituency, like someone saying they keep chickens. The anger is that she is wittering on about them rather than the wider issue.
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
You may not be, but plenty of people I know are. Tbh I’m not optimistic re Labour really tackling anti semitism either. I was hopeful after Momentum’s statement earlier on, but now after hearing stories about Lansman et al I don’t see that there’s a will to take action.
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
You may not be, but plenty of people I know are. Tbh I’m not optimistic re Labour really tackling anti semitism either. I was hopeful after Momentum’s statement earlier on, but now after hearing stories about Lansman et al I don’t see that there’s a will to take action.
There was briefly a moment when there was that will, but it was ruined with that laughable "Corbyn is antisemitic because he had dinner with the wrong kind of Jews" story.
Overnight, I saw a lot of Labour members' Twitter feeds switch from "shit, maybe there really is an issue here" to "God, this just shows it's a right-wing media campaign who just want to get at Corbyn".
I also thought that Corbyn shouldn’t have been attacked for going to the Jewdas Seder. Though I think polling had come out before then (YouGov) showing that many Labour members while believing that there were issues with antisemitism in the party were already seeing it as the right wing media attacking Corbyn.
Dianne Abbott being shouted down - labour mps need to walk out now
What did she say , that needed shouted down ?
Just failed to address the fears of her fellow mps and waffled incompetently
Hardly new big g , for a clever lady , she has been incoherent for a while.However she does not deserve to be shouted down , in a democratic chamber, or the abuse she gets on the internet.
No she doesn't deserve the abuse she gets on the internet - in terms of the chamber, well, barracking is a part of the nature of debates in the House, and it is the job of the Speaker to ensure she is still able to get her points across and stop people overdoing it.
There is so much criticism she deservedly earns, that the racial and sexist stuff she gets hit with just undermines the legitimate criticism, as well as being personally terrible.
' The ZEW Indicator of Economic Sentiment for Germany once again experienced a sharp decline in April 2018, dropping by 13.3 points compared to March and even 26.0 points compared to February. The indicator currently stands at minus 8.2 points, falling far below the long-term average of 23.5 points. '
The government may well have called that anti semitism debate to focus the spotlight on Labour’s issues, but their own massive mess up re the Windrush generation means that will continue to be the focus of the headlines. Also makes it harder for them to present themselves as morally superior to Labour now. Both parties are in a total mess.
Frankly I'm not concerned with anyone coming out with moral superiority, I just want the furore to lead to positive effect. I cannot say I'm optimistic on the anti-semitism front, since we already had this issue come up before and apparently things have only gotten worse, and despite the recent outrages apparently no one really cares that much. So I hope the Windrush situation at least can be fixed/rolled back as needed, but as it derives from a policy implementation will be harder.
You may not be, but plenty of people I know are. Tbh I’m not optimistic re Labour really tackling anti semitism either. I was hopeful after Momentum’s statement earlier on, but now after hearing stories about Lansman et al I don’t see that there’s a will to take action.
There was briefly a moment when there was that will, but it was ruined with that laughable "Corbyn is antisemitic because he had dinner with the wrong kind of Jews" story.
Overnight, I saw a lot of Labour members' Twitter feeds switch from "shit, maybe there really is an issue here" to "God, this just shows it's a right-wing media campaign who just want to get at Corbyn".
Woodcock is an Anti Semite for his "Corbyn is antisemitic because he had dinner with the wrong kind of Jews" story.
Expel him now Jezza
I thought you were rooting out Anti Semites.
Angela Smith too said something derogatory about Jewish Socialist groups in general surely she has to go.
Those Labour MPs shouting down Dianne Abbott now are hypocrites and are using vile abuse. ( I am not actually watching but am sure its correct).
Okay, I'm now totally baffled by this Windrush story. The Six O'Clock News has just shown one guy who did have a British passport and was refused from getting a new one. WTF have the Home Office been playing at?
The Home Office will look for any reason to deport anyone they can get their hands on. I assume they've been told to look out for people who have previously obtained a British passport fraudulently and now any bureaucratic irregularity has you filed into the category of illegal immigrant in their eyes.
Comments
Shakes head some more and gets some fresh air.
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/2/7/14532540/saydnaya-syria-amnesty-international
https://www.hrw.org/report/2015/12/16/if-dead-could-speak/mass-deaths-and-torture-syrias-detention-facilities
+ more.
What did John Mann's wife do other than oppose racism? She didn't say or do anything inflammatory. Remember Dianne Abbott has a lot of choice quotes "white people use divide and rule" comes to mind.
Also, I've heard her categorise abuse and sometimes it really is just people disagreeing with her views.
That's not to say she isn't subject to vile racist abuse, I just don't think it is comparable to someone's getting death and rape threats for opposing racism.
Given it had looked like being a choice between Assad and ISIS (or similar) I can see why many would support him. However, polling Syrians fairly would be something of a challenge and I wouldn't take the numbers too seriously.
When looking back at medieval kings, modern people often criticise their harshness. But at the time, that was often a cause for popularity and respect. It's possible that if people believe Assad has used chemical weapons to help win the war, they actually approve of it. They've had grinding war for seven years now. Many people may simply want it to end and something approaching normality to return.
"Much of it [abuse] from the #torytrollfarm"
"Oh hey up, Ruth Smeeth's stop crying long enough to do her bit in putting the boot into #Corbyn"
"Ruth Smeeth is a Labour friend of Israel... [they] have a problem with the current leader"
Or perhaps watch the last item on the BBC News at 10 last night about an elderly woman freed from Belsen returning for the first time to remember those who did not survive and listen to what she said about ensuring that people remembered what had happened and did not deny it.
And then reflect on your leader who travels with Holocaust deniers to visit dictators who slaughter their own people, including children as young as she was when she was sent to Belsen. And remember that the attitudes and views he is comfortable with or turns a blind eye to are what lead to monstrosities like that camp, and worse.
I accept the timing of my post was lousy if we have genuine stories of abuse of MPs
I Condemn all abuse of MPs but if some of the stuff reported by the MPs in this debate happened what the fuck are the police playing at.
Why is the person threatening rape not on his way to jail
For example:
http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/26/twitter-trolls-send-600-rape-and-death-threats-to-labour-mp-in-one-day-6880394/
I dare say May could get the support of 70% of the population if she could slaughter all those who opposed her.
Being on the autism spectrum is not a mental illness or disease, nor more than being short tempered is. It is a difference in certain behaviours and has many positives as @tyson pointed out.
You can find out more at: https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/autism
The messenger is important.
IMO Corbyn is not an Anti Semite.
In yours he is.
Fine you are entitled to your opinion and me mine.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43788537
In 2003 there were approximately eight times as many families with children who were home owners to those who were renting privately.
The ration has since steadily fallen to only 2:1.
If you ever wanted to know why the Conservatives wers struggling with the under 40s ...
I find myself thinking, surely people like Milne and Corbyn cannot seriously believe such nonsense, but then I think that 50% of the population believe in some form of god.
Shame on you.
I haven’t voted Labour since 2015, so I don’t see how anything I say reflects Labour.
I don’t see how it’s whataboutism either. It’s just the reality that this isn’t going to get a lot of media coverage because of the governments own issues, which has also limited their ability to be any morally better than Labour.
And if it is true why would anyone support the Assad government let alone a majority of Syrians? Most Syrians I know are very nice people
' The ZEW Indicator of Economic Sentiment for Germany once again experienced a sharp decline in April 2018, dropping by 13.3 points compared to March and even 26.0 points compared to February. The indicator currently stands at minus 8.2 points, falling far below the long-term average of 23.5 points. '
http://www.zew.de/en/presse/pressearchiv/erneuter-starker-rueckgang/
https://twitter.com/GOsborneGenius/status/978280220426981376
I have said on loads of occasion any genuine Anti Semitism is unacceptable.
Is it not also a police matter in some cases.
Yet it doesn't seem to have stemmed the abuse, for the reasons you so amply show. It's not antisemitism, it's because the MP doesn't like the anointed one.
And you are wrong in focusing on the messenger. It is exactly the same mistake made by those who ignore the concerns of whistleblowers because they may have mixed motives or those who would not listen to abused girls or to the far right politicians who mentioned the problem.
You look at the facts and the facts are that there has been a disturbing increase in anti-semitic abuse within the Labour party directed at Jewish members of the party and other Jews. This isn’t a matter of opinion. The fact that you are choosing to ignore such facts and attack those in your own party and others who point this out does you no credit at all. If you really were concerned about this you would, like SO, call it out not rush to defend Corbyn for his abysmal failure to stand up for the anti-racism principles he claims to believe in.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/16/german-recession-signal-soars-danger-level-global-woes-mount/
It's not easy for any of us, certainly there are people and positions I instinctively lean toward, it would be silly to claim otherwise, but the messenger really isn't as important as the message, and some truths are self evident no matter the messenger.
Which is where the whole civil war mess began.
If you are looking for a reason, it is that authoritarian dictatorships employ more than their fair share of sadists. There are good and bad people in all societies; some have better arrangements for controlling the behaviour of the latter.
Hopefully if any of them were they will have been expelled for life.
If none of them were what then?
If we include council / social housing then the ratio is even less and there will be significant variances between differnt parts of the country.
Overnight, I saw a lot of Labour members' Twitter feeds switch from "shit, maybe there really is an issue here" to "God, this just shows it's a right-wing media campaign who just want to get at Corbyn".
And if it is true why would anyone support the Hitler government let alone a majority of Germans? Most Germans I know are very nice people
Substitute other countries as personal preference requies.
The days when embarrassment was your leader eating a bacon sandwich must seem a long, long way away.
If the West was ever going to intervene in the civil war, it ought to have done so at the beginning. It is now an unholy mess, with the most significant players being the regional powers (and, of course, the Russians).
Has a country ever had a larger percentage of its population as refugees ?
because they can
It is important for society to try to detect these people, help them as much as possible, but most of all to prevent deter, or prevent harm from, their behaviour.
Also, there will be the Abu Ghraib factor: people ill-trained for work in jails and such close groups will sadly often tend to excesses. The less control there is, the greater the possible excesses. Witness also various 'care' homes and church organisations.
https://www.thejc.com/lifestyle/interviews/ex-kibbutznik-who-is-corbyn-s-left-hand-man-1.58391
There is so much criticism she deservedly earns, that the racial and sexist stuff she gets hit with just undermines the legitimate criticism, as well as being personally terrible.
https://www.forexfactory.com/#detail=88892
Expel him now Jezza
I thought you were rooting out Anti Semites.
Angela Smith too said something derogatory about Jewish Socialist groups in general surely she has to go.
Those Labour MPs shouting down Dianne Abbott now are hypocrites and are using vile abuse. ( I am not actually watching but am sure its correct).
Am i getting the hang of this??