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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If there’s a high turnout of Jewish voters in this key ward th

SystemSystem Posts: 12,256
edited April 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If there’s a high turnout of Jewish voters in this key ward then LAB’s main London hope could be thwarted

I’ve just had a bet at 23/10 with Ladbrokes that the Conservatives will hold on to Barnet in the local elections on May 3rd. My reason is an assessment by long standing PB contributor, Sean Fear, that this is a 50-50 chance and in such cases the betting option that’s longer than evens is the value bet.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • I called Barnet last month,
  • Thank you Sean
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,599
    If the Tories hold Barnet it will be the Jewish vote 'Wot Won It.'

    Wandsworth may now be more vulnerable to Labour than Barnet
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    Fake News...Labour don't have any issues with Jewish voters, Jezza went to some crackpot communist Jewish organization dinner and that was the end of that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,323
    edited April 2018
    FPT
    Pulpstar said:

    Some Tory MPs are making the point if we have a War Powers Act then it will have judicial oversight.

    So if a PM wants to use military action they might have to go via the courts.

    If you want a speedy military response you might be waiting a while.

    Would judges really injunct a war command ?
    No wait, I know the answer to that xD
    The enemies of peace?

    But you can imagine the soap dodgers of Stop the War mob trying to take legal action to stop war.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Fake News...Labour don't have any issues with Jewish voters, Jezza went to some crackpot communist Jewish organization dinner and that was the end of that.

    It is lucky the Tories have not done anything recently that might worry ethnic minority voters.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories hold Barnet it will be the Jewish vote 'Wot Won It.'

    Wandsworth may now be more vulnerable to Labour than Barnet

    And Westminster.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    The visuals of TMay trying to avoid consulting Parliament before taking military action do not look good with Pike sitting next to her.
  • chloechloe Posts: 308
    Labour are campaigning hard in Hale and the Conservatives have a completely new batch of candidates there. One long-standing Consevative from Hale ward is jumping ship to a safer ward. I think Hale is in play for Labour
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.
  • Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,063
    edited April 2018

    The visuals of TMay trying to avoid consulting Parliament before taking military action do not look good with Pike sitting next to her.

    With the greatest of respect you should listen to the very sensible argument being put to the HOC by the PM why on some occasions the perogative is the right thing to do
  • Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
  • chloechloe Posts: 308
    A former lib dem councillor who campaigned against an unpopular regeneration at Granville Road in Child's Hill is standing again. I think the Conservatives may loose their 2 Child's Hill seats to the Lib Dems. Agree that Labour should take an extra Brunswick Park seat.
  • Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock

    I've always spelt it as 'wazzock'

    I'm so confused now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,599
    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories hold Barnet it will be the Jewish vote 'Wot Won It.'

    Wandsworth may now be more vulnerable to Labour than Barnet

    And Westminster.
    Though Labour need a bigger swing to gain Westminster than Wandsworth
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Theresa May denied this twice and emphatically at the despatch box.

    Stewart McDonald MP
    ‏Verified account @StewartMcDonald

    Stewart McDonald MP Retweeted Nick Eardley

    Several sources have told me that the Prime Minister’s National Security Adviser has given Labour MPs intelligence & security briefings on Syria, not on the basis that they are Privy Councillors - and therefore security cleared - but instead to those who support air strikes.

    https://twitter.com/StewartMcDonald/status/986212403510734848
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock

    I've always spelt it as 'wazzock'

    I'm so confused now.

    Are you also confuzed?

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Hasty decisions by a mad man or woman with no parliamentary oversight would put our military in danger.
  • Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Hasty decisions by a mad man or woman with no parliamentary oversight would put our military in danger.
    You are not listening to the careful and well considered argument put forward by the PM but then that does not suit your argument
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,980

    Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock

    I've always spelt it as 'wazzock'

    I'm so confused now.
    You spell it correctly for Yorkshire - and therefore for the country.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    Did Macron get Parliamentary approval in advance for the French airstrikes?
  • Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock

    I've always spelt it as 'wazzock'

    I'm so confused now.
    Its Lancashire dialect. Wassock with essess but pronounced with zeds. How you Yorkshire types spell it is up to you, need to get the world to talk proper like what I do
  • Did Macron get Parliamentary approval in advance for the French airstrikes?

    As I understand it none of the leaders obtained prior parliamentary approval
  • chloechloe Posts: 308
    Barnet Labour attended the Labour stop anti- semitisim rally and a number of Labour candidates are from the Jewish community.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,925

    Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock

    I've always spelt it as 'wazzock'

    I'm so confused now.
    No, you were right. Yorkshire and Lancashire agree on the point, so it must be correct.

    (I think 'wassock' is some Midland dialect... and autocorrect tries to change it to cassock.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,855
    There's a big Green vote to squeeze in Childs Hill, and I suspect it was one of the most Remain wards in the country. There will also be a substantial number of EU professionals in the ward, who might wish to register a protest vote.

    For this reason, I'm going to disagree with OGH: I think Childs Hill will go from two Conservative councillors to zero - whether the beneficiary will be the LibDems or the Labour Party is another matter altogether.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,599
    edited April 2018

    Did Macron get Parliamentary approval in advance for the French airstrikes?

    As I understand it none of the leaders obtained prior parliamentary approval
    As I posted in the last thread under the War Powers Act 1973 the US President needs Congressional approval for deployment of ground forces for longer than 60 days but prior to that he can launch airstrikes, missile strikes and send in special forces without Congressional Approval.

    In France there is no legislative restraint on the power of the President to launch military action in his role as Head of the French armed forces
  • Nigelb said:

    Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock

    I've always spelt it as 'wazzock'

    I'm so confused now.
    No, you were right. Yorkshire and Lancashire agree on the point, so it must be correct.

    (I think 'wassock' is some Midland dialect... and autocorrect tries to change it to cassock.)
    Wassock / Wazzock spelling row. What do you think started the War of the Roses?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Or maybe he, along with Assad and Putin, had read President Trump's tweets warning of the imminent strikes for the past week. It is fatuous for the PM to claim there was any secret left to keep.
  • Anyway, Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock / wazzock
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The bet is good in its own terms. But I'm not sure that the fight can be reduced to three wards. There could be some wild cards.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    A BBC reporter covering a police search of Sir Cliff Richard's flat spoke of a "bonkers but brilliant" day, the singer's privacy case has been told.

    Dan Johnson used the words in 2014 in reply to a text message from the head of media at South Yorkshire Police after the raid, the High Court heard.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43796826

    Dan Johnson has certainly had some interesting things to say.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,483
    Off topic but close to my heart: I see that various PB'ers were being described as being on the autism spectrum on the previous thread as well as Mrs May.

    ** Rant mode ON **

    I really hate this sort of cod-diagnosis. Being not v good with people or very interested in a particular topic is not a mental illness and this tendency to label quirks and eccentricities as a disease does a disservice to those who really do suffer from such mental illnesses. (The same can be said of fussy eaters claiming to have an "allergy" when the reality is they just don't like a particular food.)

    As the mother of a child with OCD it really bugs me - and him - when people say they are a "little bit OCD" just because they like to tidy their books alphabetically or whatever. OCD is not about excessive tidiness. It's a horrible condition which causes real pain - think of someone banging their head against a wall - literally - for hours at a time to try and banish dark thoughts or self-harming to the point of attempting suicide. It can be managed. But provision for it - certainly in the NHS - is poor and if not treated it has a high mortality rate. People who like lining up their mugs in a particular way have no fucking idea what being OCD is like!

    Being interested in politics more than the normal person makes one intelligent not weird. Not being very good with strangers makes one shy and reserved not mentally ill. Not everyone can be a Princess Diana and politics needs all sorts of skills. Mrs May has some and not others. That just means that she is human and is, IMO, over-promoted. Sometimes she can be very good; at other times she has a tin ear for the human side. She is much like many people in positions of leadership in both the private and public sectors.

    I can't comment on PB'ers other than those I've met. And I'm not going to. But they seem to cover a range of interesting opinions and experiences (which makes this website one of the best there is) and some seem to be both fun and kind.

    ** Rant mode off now (and apologies for the intemperate language) **
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Anyway, Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock / wazzock

    Why have a second debate in two days about bloody Syria, when you could have one on Windrush?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Hasty decisions by a mad man or woman with no parliamentary oversight would put our military in danger.
    You are not listening to the careful and well considered argument put forward by the PM but then that does not suit your argument
    I cannot even see her now as she has retired from the battlefield.
  • Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Or maybe he, along with Assad and Putin, had read President Trump's tweets warning of the imminent strikes for the past week. It is fatuous for the PM to claim there was any secret left to keep.
    Of course there were secrets left.

    I see this as a means for elements within Parliament and campaign groups to stop all military activity short of national boundary defence. How else would a precursor to action debate go?

    Government: We need to carry out military action.
    Parliament: Where exactly?
    Government: Can't tell you that or the other side can move the target.
    Parliament: When exactly?
    Government: We can't tell you that either because we hope the other side will be asleep.
    Parliament: How?
    Government: We can't tell you that either because we don't want the other side to be ready.
    Parliament: Well then the answer is no.

    We'd be a laughing stock.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,323
    edited April 2018

    Did Macron get Parliamentary approval in advance for the French airstrikes?

    You’re a Russian troll/bot.

    No true Englishman/Brit would ever use the French as a good role model for our nation.

    We have higher standards than the French.

    Begone back to St Petersburg.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,904

    Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Hasty decisions by a mad man or woman with no parliamentary oversight would put our military in danger.
    You are not listening to the careful and well considered argument put forward by the PM but then that does not suit your argument
    I cannot even see her now as she has retired from the battlefield.
    That's a pathetic comment. She was in parliament answering questions for many hours yesterday - she isn't hiding from parliament.
  • Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Hasty decisions by a mad man or woman with no parliamentary oversight would put our military in danger.
    You are not listening to the careful and well considered argument put forward by the PM but then that does not suit your argument
    I cannot even see her now as she has retired from the battlefield.
    That's a pathetic comment. She was in parliament answering questions for many hours yesterday - she isn't hiding from parliament.
    Indeed. She said she had a meeting with Cyril Ramphosa to attend.
  • Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Hasty decisions by a mad man or woman with no parliamentary oversight would put our military in danger.
    You are not listening to the careful and well considered argument put forward by the PM but then that does not suit your argument
    I cannot even see her now as she has retired from the battlefield.
    She told the house that she had to leave the debate to meet the new President of South Africa. The reaction seemed to be that they understood.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,108
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic but close to my heart: I see that various PB'ers were being described as being on the autism spectrum on the previous thread as well as Mrs May.

    ** Rant mode ON **

    I really hate this sort of cod-diagnosis. Being not v good with people or very interested in a particular topic is not a mental illness and this tendency to label quirks and eccentricities as a disease does a disservice to those who really do suffer from such mental illnesses. (The same can be said of fussy eaters claiming to have an "allergy" when the reality is they just don't like a particular food.)

    As the mother of a child with OCD it really bugs me - and him - when people say they are a "little bit OCD" just because they like to tidy their books alphabetically or whatever. OCD is not about excessive tidiness. It's a horrible condition which causes real pain - think of someone banging their head against a wall - literally - for hours at a time to try and banish dark thoughts or self-harming to the point of attempting suicide. It can be managed. But provision for it - certainly in the NHS - is poor and if not treated it has a high mortality rate. People who like lining up their mugs in a particular way have no fucking idea what being OCD is like!

    Being interested in politics more than the normal person makes one intelligent not weird. Not being very good with strangers makes one shy and reserved not mentally ill. Not everyone can be a Princess Diana and politics needs all sorts of skills. Mrs May has some and not others. That just means that she is human and is, IMO, over-promoted. Sometimes she can be very good; at other times she has a tin ear for the human side. She is much like many people in positions of leadership in both the private and public sectors.

    I can't comment on PB'ers other than those I've met. And I'm not going to. But they seem to cover a range of interesting opinions and experiences (which makes this website one of the best there is) and some seem to be both fun and kind.

    ** Rant mode off now (and apologies for the intemperate language) **

    Rant fully justified. It was @tyson overstretching himself.
  • The Home Office destroyed thousands of landing card slips recording Windrush immigrants’ arrival dates in the UK, despite staff warnings that the move would make it harder to check the records of older Caribbean-born residents experiencing residency difficulties.

    A former Home Office employee said the records, stored in the basement of a government tower block, were a vital resource for case workers when they were asked to find information about someone’s arrival date in the UK from the West Indies – usually when the individual was struggling to resolve immigration status problems.

    Although the home secretary, Amber Rudd, has promised to make it easier for Windrush-generation residents to regularise their status, the destruction of the database is likely to make the process harder, even with the support of the new taskforce announced this week.

    The former employee (who has asked for his name not to be printed) said it was decided in 2010 to destroy the disembarkation cards, which dated back to the 1950s and 60s, when the Home Office’s Whitgift Centre in Croydon was closed and the staff were moved to another site. Employees in his department told their managers it was a bad idea, because these papers were often the last remaining record of a person’s arrival date, in the event of uncertainty or lost documents.

    The files were destroyed in October that year, when Theresa May was Home Secretary


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • chloechloe Posts: 308

    The bet is good in its own terms. But I'm not sure that the fight can be reduced to three wards. There could be some wild cards.

    The wild cards maybe in the 2 wards in the Hendon constituency where there have been popular Long-standing councillors who have not been reselected e.g.: Edgware and Mill Hill.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    On topic, from someone else with a keen interest in this:

    https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/986234885823016960
  • Tory candidate in Hoxton suspended for anti-Muslim posts on social media

    Alexander van Terheyden went to a far-right rally and has defended the crusades

    https://twitter.com/j_bloodworth/status/986234589294161920?s=21
  • Genius. You have to question the absurd jobsworth attitude being taken in some of these cases - clearly there must have been a political directive to come across as tough on illegals, but when you have destroyed the evidence proving they have been here 50 years it makes you your department and your government look like utter critins.

    Surely Rudd could have told the officials to apply an element of common sense?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Hasty decisions by a mad man or woman with no parliamentary oversight would put our military in danger.
    You are not listening to the careful and well considered argument put forward by the PM but then that does not suit your argument
    I cannot even see her now as she has retired from the battlefield.
    That's a pathetic comment. She was in parliament answering questions for many hours yesterday - she isn't hiding from parliament.
    It is her job. Not very gallant of you to imply that she might not be up to it due to long hours.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    On the previous thread;

    https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/986219593134993409?s=20

    Fair - and brutal.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340



    Surely Rudd could have told the officials to apply an element of common sense?

    Both the policy and its implementation were minister-led. This is not some junior administrative bungle. In the current climate, common sense is not required - mindless cruelty against outsiders is to be preferred.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    St Vince is up.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    A little piece of Brendan O'Neill must have died inside him when he found that he couldn't be more right-wing contrarian than the Prime Minister.
  • I'm not a fan of the Mogg but blimey that was a good speech
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,904

    Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Hasty decisions by a mad man or woman with no parliamentary oversight would put our military in danger.
    You are not listening to the careful and well considered argument put forward by the PM but then that does not suit your argument
    I cannot even see her now as she has retired from the battlefield.
    That's a pathetic comment. She was in parliament answering questions for many hours yesterday - she isn't hiding from parliament.
    It is her job. Not very gallant of you to imply that she might not be up to it due to long hours.
    That's not what I'm implying, and you know it. ;)

    Given the fact she's PM and has many other important things on your plate, I think your comment is the ungallant one.

    Still, anything to divert from the ungallant fool that is Labour's leader, and the coterie of absolute sh*ts he has surrounded himself with.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    A little piece of Brendan O'Neill must have died inside him when he found that he couldn't be more right-wing contrarian than the Prime Minister.
    It's a good article, though.


  • Surely Rudd could have told the officials to apply an element of common sense?

    Both the policy and its implementation were minister-led. This is not some junior administrative bungle. In the current climate, common sense is not required - mindless cruelty against outsiders is to be preferred.
    Indeed. The Tories already treat the disabled, the dying and the chronically sick in an inhuman manner. I used to think it was unthinking, then I realised it was policy. Doesn't matter that scores of people have committed suicide as a direct result of this policy, doesn't matter that the government loses most appeals so that the policy actually costs us money, its the spectacle of being seen as mean to Daily Mail readers thats the important bit.
  • Tools. Let the couple enjoy their happy day.

    This is like the Westboro Church protesting at military funerals

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/986236513582178311?s=21
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822



    Surely Rudd could have told the officials to apply an element of common sense?

    Both the policy and its implementation were minister-led. This is not some junior administrative bungle. In the current climate, common sense is not required - mindless cruelty against outsiders is to be preferred.
    Indeed. The Tories already treat the disabled, the dying and the chronically sick in an inhuman manner. I used to think it was unthinking, then I realised it was policy. Doesn't matter that scores of people have committed suicide as a direct result of this policy, doesn't matter that the government loses most appeals so that the policy actually costs us money, its the spectacle of being seen as mean to Daily Mail readers thats the important bit.
    Don't be silly.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited April 2018

    Genius. You have to question the absurd jobsworth attitude being taken in some of these cases - clearly there must have been a political directive to come across as tough on illegals, but when you have destroyed the evidence proving they have been here 50 years it makes you your department and your government look like utter critins.

    Surely Rudd could have told the officials to apply an element of common sense?
    Destroying them without digitizing them is a quite extraordinarily bad decision. This corrects any tendency I might otherwise have had to uprate my opinion of May on the basis of the Syria stuff. Justice and good governance aside they are, or were, important primary historical evidence.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584



    Surely Rudd could have told the officials to apply an element of common sense?

    Both the policy and its implementation were minister-led. This is not some junior administrative bungle. In the current climate, common sense is not required - mindless cruelty against outsiders is to be preferred.

    The problem is not just immigration, bureaucrats not caring about people and just ticking boxes is a wide problem across society.

    It's not necessarily the bureaucrats fault, as if they do show some common sense, they can then be penalised themselves.

    It's a mess. And people get hurt.

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Hasty decisions by a mad man or woman with no parliamentary oversight would put our military in danger.
    You are not listening to the careful and well considered argument put forward by the PM but then that does not suit your argument
    I cannot even see her now as she has retired from the battlefield.
    That's a pathetic comment. She was in parliament answering questions for many hours yesterday - she isn't hiding from parliament.
    It is her job. Not very gallant of you to imply that she might not be up to it due to long hours.
    That's not what I'm implying, and you know it. ;)

    Given the fact she's PM and has many other important things on your plate, I think your comment is the ungallant one.

    Still, anything to divert from the ungallant fool that is Labour's leader, and the coterie of absolute sh*ts he has surrounded himself with.
    Jeremy is a gentleman!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,251
    Nigelb said:

    Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock

    I've always spelt it as 'wazzock'

    I'm so confused now.
    No, you were right. Yorkshire and Lancashire agree on the point, so it must be correct.

    (I think 'wassock' is some Midland dialect... and autocorrect tries to change it to cassock.)
    Derbyshire votes "wazzock".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,855

    The Home Office destroyed thousands of landing card slips recording Windrush immigrants’ arrival dates in the UK, despite staff warnings that the move would make it harder to check the records of older Caribbean-born residents experiencing residency difficulties.

    A former Home Office employee said the records, stored in the basement of a government tower block, were a vital resource for case workers when they were asked to find information about someone’s arrival date in the UK from the West Indies – usually when the individual was struggling to resolve immigration status problems.

    Although the home secretary, Amber Rudd, has promised to make it easier for Windrush-generation residents to regularise their status, the destruction of the database is likely to make the process harder, even with the support of the new taskforce announced this week.

    The former employee (who has asked for his name not to be printed) said it was decided in 2010 to destroy the disembarkation cards, which dated back to the 1950s and 60s, when the Home Office’s Whitgift Centre in Croydon was closed and the staff were moved to another site. Employees in his department told their managers it was a bad idea, because these papers were often the last remaining record of a person’s arrival date, in the event of uncertainty or lost documents.

    The files were destroyed in October that year, when Theresa May was Home Secretary


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    If this is true, Rudd must go.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Tools. Let the couple enjoy their happy day.

    This is like the Westboro Church protesting at military funerals

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/986236513582178311?s=21

    So that group, the Daily Mail and its readers all have it in for Meghan Markle. Racists all!
  • Nigelb said:

    Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock

    I've always spelt it as 'wazzock'

    I'm so confused now.
    No, you were right. Yorkshire and Lancashire agree on the point, so it must be correct.

    (I think 'wassock' is some Midland dialect... and autocorrect tries to change it to cassock.)
    Derbyshire votes "wazzock".
    Hertfordshire would spell it wazzock too
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Tools. Let the couple enjoy their happy day.

    This is like the Westboro Church protesting at military funerals

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/986236513582178311?s=21

    They should let the gays and the old ladies enjoy the occasion and not ruin their day.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340



    Surely Rudd could have told the officials to apply an element of common sense?

    Both the policy and its implementation were minister-led. This is not some junior administrative bungle. In the current climate, common sense is not required - mindless cruelty against outsiders is to be preferred.

    The problem is not just immigration, bureaucrats not caring about people and just ticking boxes is a wide problem across society.

    It's not necessarily the bureaucrats fault, as if they do show some common sense, they can then be penalised themselves.

    It's a mess. And people get hurt.

    The problem is not just immigration. But immigration is a place where it's particularly visible and where by and large the system's cruelties are condoned by the public.

    It's that sentiment that secured Brexit, with a campaign of xenophobic lies, and reinforced this behaviour by the government who could act against poor, marginalised people without consequence. The yelps from some Leavers are crocodile tears: they played a large part in contributing to this problem.

    There will be no ministerial resignations. Conservatives simply don't care enough about this to force one, when it comes down to it.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Tools. Let the couple enjoy their happy day.

    This is like the Westboro Church protesting at military funerals

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/986236513582178311?s=21

    They should let the gays and the old ladies enjoy the occasion and not ruin their day.
    Why the casual homophobia???
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    rcs1000 said:

    The Home Office destroyed thousands of landing card slips recording Windrush immigrants’ arrival dates in the UK, despite staff warnings that the move would make it harder to check the records of older Caribbean-born residents experiencing residency difficulties.

    A former Home Office employee said the records, stored in the basement of a government tower block, were a vital resource for case workers when they were asked to find information about someone’s arrival date in the UK from the West Indies – usually when the individual was struggling to resolve immigration status problems.

    Although the home secretary, Amber Rudd, has promised to make it easier for Windrush-generation residents to regularise their status, the destruction of the database is likely to make the process harder, even with the support of the new taskforce announced this week.

    The former employee (who has asked for his name not to be printed) said it was decided in 2010 to destroy the disembarkation cards, which dated back to the 1950s and 60s, when the Home Office’s Whitgift Centre in Croydon was closed and the staff were moved to another site. Employees in his department told their managers it was a bad idea, because these papers were often the last remaining record of a person’s arrival date, in the event of uncertainty or lost documents.

    The files were destroyed in October that year, when Theresa May was Home Secretary


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    If this is true, Rudd must go.
    It happened in 2010.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Genius. You have to question the absurd jobsworth attitude being taken in some of these cases - clearly there must have been a political directive to come across as tough on illegals, but when you have destroyed the evidence proving they have been here 50 years it makes you your department and your government look like utter critins.

    Surely Rudd could have told the officials to apply an element of common sense?
    Destroying them without digitizing them is a quite extraordinarily bad decision. This corrects any tendency I might otherwise have had to uprate my opinion of May on the basis of the Syria stuff. Justice and good governance aside they are, or were, important primary historical evidence.
    There is almost zero chance that Theresa May knew about the decision, let alone took it. According to the Guardian article, it was the semi-autonomous UK Border Agency which decided to destroy the records. That decision might have been taken before the change of government, for all we know.

    This is getting into a stupid blamefest.


  • Surely Rudd could have told the officials to apply an element of common sense?

    Both the policy and its implementation were minister-led. This is not some junior administrative bungle. In the current climate, common sense is not required - mindless cruelty against outsiders is to be preferred.
    Indeed. The Tories already treat the disabled, the dying and the chronically sick in an inhuman manner. I used to think it was unthinking, then I realised it was policy. Doesn't matter that scores of people have committed suicide as a direct result of this policy, doesn't matter that the government loses most appeals so that the policy actually costs us money, its the spectacle of being seen as mean to Daily Mail readers thats the important bit.
    Don't be silly.
    Which bit is silly? People have committed suicide. Most appeals are successful. It costs money. Yet it continues as policy.

    If there is an alternate explanation as to why I am all ears
  • Nigelb said:

    Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock

    I've always spelt it as 'wazzock'

    I'm so confused now.
    No, you were right. Yorkshire and Lancashire agree on the point, so it must be correct.

    (I think 'wassock' is some Midland dialect... and autocorrect tries to change it to cassock.)
    Derbyshire votes "wazzock".
    Hertfordshire would spell it wazzock too
    You are all wassocks
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Tools. Let the couple enjoy their happy day.

    This is like the Westboro Church protesting at military funerals

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/986236513582178311?s=21

    They should let the gays and the old ladies enjoy the occasion and not ruin their day.
    Why the casual homophobia???
    Looks in mirror. Nah!
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    rcs1000 said:

    The Home Office destroyed thousands of landing card slips recording Windrush immigrants’ arrival dates in the UK, despite staff warnings that the move would make it harder to check the records of older Caribbean-born residents experiencing residency difficulties.

    A former Home Office employee said the records, stored in the basement of a government tower block, were a vital resource for case workers when they were asked to find information about someone’s arrival date in the UK from the West Indies – usually when the individual was struggling to resolve immigration status problems.

    Although the home secretary, Amber Rudd, has promised to make it easier for Windrush-generation residents to regularise their status, the destruction of the database is likely to make the process harder, even with the support of the new taskforce announced this week.

    The former employee (who has asked for his name not to be printed) said it was decided in 2010 to destroy the disembarkation cards, which dated back to the 1950s and 60s, when the Home Office’s Whitgift Centre in Croydon was closed and the staff were moved to another site. Employees in his department told their managers it was a bad idea, because these papers were often the last remaining record of a person’s arrival date, in the event of uncertainty or lost documents.

    The files were destroyed in October that year, when Theresa May was Home Secretary


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    If this is true, Rudd must go.
    Surely if this is true, it's May who's culpable?

    This is staggering. The current PM's fingerprints all over it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,069
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    We must hope the Conservatives hold Barnet.

    F1: nice article by Palmer on Hamilton and the season so far:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43778200
  • rcs1000 said:

    The Home Office destroyed thousands of landing card slips recording Windrush immigrants’ arrival dates in the UK, despite staff warnings that the move would make it harder to check the records of older Caribbean-born residents experiencing residency difficulties.

    A former Home Office employee said the records, stored in the basement of a government tower block, were a vital resource for case workers when they were asked to find information about someone’s arrival date in the UK from the West Indies – usually when the individual was struggling to resolve immigration status problems.

    Although the home secretary, Amber Rudd, has promised to make it easier for Windrush-generation residents to regularise their status, the destruction of the database is likely to make the process harder, even with the support of the new taskforce announced this week.

    The former employee (who has asked for his name not to be printed) said it was decided in 2010 to destroy the disembarkation cards, which dated back to the 1950s and 60s, when the Home Office’s Whitgift Centre in Croydon was closed and the staff were moved to another site. Employees in his department told their managers it was a bad idea, because these papers were often the last remaining record of a person’s arrival date, in the event of uncertainty or lost documents.

    The files were destroyed in October that year, when Theresa May was Home Secretary


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    If this is true, Rudd must go.
    Sounds like a middle manager c*** up. What's the betting that they were shrinking space, had a limited move budget and were told to destroy old documents per the department record retention policy. Nobody will have escalated staff concerns up for ministerial decision or SPAD review - who would have spotted the political risk. Bureaucracies are often stupid.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited April 2018



    Surely Rudd could have told the officials to apply an element of common sense?

    Both the policy and its implementation were minister-led. This is not some junior administrative bungle. In the current climate, common sense is not required - mindless cruelty against outsiders is to be preferred.
    Indeed. The Tories already treat the disabled, the dying and the chronically sick in an inhuman manner. I used to think it was unthinking, then I realised it was policy. Doesn't matter that scores of people have committed suicide as a direct result of this policy, doesn't matter that the government loses most appeals so that the policy actually costs us money, its the spectacle of being seen as mean to Daily Mail readers thats the important bit.
    Don't be silly.
    Which bit is silly? People have committed suicide. Most appeals are successful. It costs money. Yet it continues as policy.

    If there is an alternate explanation as to why I am all ears
    The idea that minister are deliberately pursuing a policy which drives people to suicide is just completely, utterly, bonkers, as well as exceedingly offensive. But presumably you thought the same about Labour ministers driving farmers to suicide with the Rural Payments Agency debacle? Or indeed suicides attributed to benefits decisions under Brown?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Or maybe he, along with Assad and Putin, had read President Trump's tweets warning of the imminent strikes for the past week. It is fatuous for the PM to claim there was any secret left to keep.
    Of course there were secrets left.

    I see this as a means for elements within Parliament and campaign groups to stop all military activity short of national boundary defence. How else would a precursor to action debate go?

    Government: We need to carry out military action.
    Parliament: Where exactly?
    Government: Can't tell you that or the other side can move the target.
    Parliament: When exactly?
    Government: We can't tell you that either because we hope the other side will be asleep.
    Parliament: How?
    Government: We can't tell you that either because we don't want the other side to be ready.
    Parliament: Well then the answer is no.

    We'd be a laughing stock.
    We did want the other side to be ready. That's why the Americans and Russians spent a week working out what would be attacked and arranging that no-one would be there and that the Russians would not fire back. Nor was it purely coincidental that the RAF attacked alongside America at American-directed targets.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    rcs1000 said:

    The Home Office destroyed thousands of landing card slips recording Windrush immigrants’ arrival dates in the UK, despite staff warnings that the move would make it harder to check the records of older Caribbean-born residents experiencing residency difficulties.

    A former Home Office employee said the records, stored in the basement of a government tower block, were a vital resource for case workers when they were asked to find information about someone’s arrival date in the UK from the West Indies – usually when the individual was struggling to resolve immigration status problems.

    Although the home secretary, Amber Rudd, has promised to make it easier for Windrush-generation residents to regularise their status, the destruction of the database is likely to make the process harder, even with the support of the new taskforce announced this week.

    The former employee (who has asked for his name not to be printed) said it was decided in 2010 to destroy the disembarkation cards, which dated back to the 1950s and 60s, when the Home Office’s Whitgift Centre in Croydon was closed and the staff were moved to another site. Employees in his department told their managers it was a bad idea, because these papers were often the last remaining record of a person’s arrival date, in the event of uncertainty or lost documents.

    The files were destroyed in October that year, when Theresa May was Home Secretary


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    If this is true, Rudd must go.
    Sounds like a middle manager c*** up. What's the betting that they were shrinking space, had a limited move budget and were told to destroy old documents per the department record retention policy. Nobody will have escalated staff concerns up for ministerial decision or SPAD review - who would have spotted the political risk. Bureaucracies are often stupid.
    They would have been told to cut spending by their political masters and one way to do that is to reduce office space. Penny wise and pound foolish.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    On Topic if Sean Fear thinks that Labour only has a 50% chance in Barnet 2/1 On Tories retaining it still represents value. Sean is usually pretty good on his London knowledge.

    Would be pretty disappointing from a Labour poi t of view though.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Tools. Let the couple enjoy their happy day.

    This is like the Westboro Church protesting at military funerals

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/986236513582178311?s=21

    They should let the gays and the old ladies enjoy the occasion and not ruin their day.
    Why the casual homophobia???
    Looks in mirror. Nah!
    Then why 'the gays' and not 'us gays' or some other more positive use of language?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,904

    Theresa May, "We must maintain secrecy".

    Sums her up to a tee.

    You really would put our military in danger
    Hasty decisions by a mad man or woman with no parliamentary oversight would put our military in danger.
    You are not listening to the careful and well considered argument put forward by the PM but then that does not suit your argument
    I cannot even see her now as she has retired from the battlefield.
    That's a pathetic comment. She was in parliament answering questions for many hours yesterday - she isn't hiding from parliament.
    It is her job. Not very gallant of you to imply that she might not be up to it due to long hours.
    That's not what I'm implying, and you know it. ;)

    Given the fact she's PM and has many other important things on your plate, I think your comment is the ungallant one.

    Still, anything to divert from the ungallant fool that is Labour's leader, and the coterie of absolute sh*ts he has surrounded himself with.
    Jeremy is a gentleman!
    Yeah, right. Pull the other one. ;)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761

    Nigelb said:

    Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock

    I've always spelt it as 'wazzock'

    I'm so confused now.
    No, you were right. Yorkshire and Lancashire agree on the point, so it must be correct.

    (I think 'wassock' is some Midland dialect... and autocorrect tries to change it to cassock.)
    Derbyshire votes "wazzock".
    Since the wazzocks took over even the pot holes have pot holes!!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587

    Tory candidate in Hoxton suspended for anti-Muslim posts on social media

    Alexander van Terheyden went to a far-right rally and has defended the crusades

    https://twitter.com/j_bloodworth/status/986234589294161920?s=21

    Has May apologised, and intervened personally to expel him from the party?

    Just wondering, as that's what seems to be expected of party leaders nowadays if a random member, let alone a candidate, says or does something dodgy.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,483

    rcs1000 said:

    The Home Office destroyed thousands of landing card slips recording Windrush immigrants’ arrival dates in the UK, despite staff warnings that the move would make it harder to check the records of older Caribbean-born residents experiencing residency difficulties.

    A former Home Office employee said the records, stored in the basement of a government tower block, were a vital resource for case workers when they were asked to find information about someone’s arrival date in the UK from the West Indies – usually when the individual was struggling to resolve immigration status problems.

    Although the home secretary, Amber Rudd, has promised to make it easier for Windrush-generation residents to regularise their status, the destruction of the database is likely to make the process harder, even with the support of the new taskforce announced this week.

    The former employee (who has asked for his name not to be printed) said it was decided in 2010 to destroy the disembarkation cards, which dated back to the 1950s and 60s, when the Home Office’s Whitgift Centre in Croydon was closed and the staff were moved to another site. Employees in his department told their managers it was a bad idea, because these papers were often the last remaining record of a person’s arrival date, in the event of uncertainty or lost documents.

    The files were destroyed in October that year, when Theresa May was Home Secretary


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    If this is true, Rudd must go.
    Sounds like a middle manager c*** up. What's the betting that they were shrinking space, had a limited move budget and were told to destroy old documents per the department record retention policy. Nobody will have escalated staff concerns up for ministerial decision or SPAD review - who would have spotted the political risk. Bureaucracies are often stupid.
    They would have been told to cut spending by their political masters and one way to do that is to reduce office space. Penny wise and pound foolish.
    That raises an interesting and important question. What is the retention policy for government records? If stuff like this is being destroyed without being stored in some other form, how can we be certain that other records which will or may be needed decades later (eg pension / tax / NI records) are also being properly kept?

    Some bright MP might wish to raise this point. This - potentially - goes wider than just Windrush records.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    edited April 2018

    rcs1000 said:

    The Home Office destroyed thousands of landing card slips recording Windrush immigrants’ arrival dates in the UK, despite staff warnings that the move would make it harder to check the records of older Caribbean-born residents experiencing residency difficulties.

    A former Home Office employee said the records, stored in the basement of a government tower block, were a vital resource for case workers when they were asked to find information about someone’s arrival date in the UK from the West Indies – usually when the individual was struggling to resolve immigration status problems.

    Although the home secretary, Amber Rudd, has promised to make it easier for Windrush-generation residents to regularise their status, the destruction of the database is likely to make the process harder, even with the support of the new taskforce announced this week.

    The former employee (who has asked for his name not to be printed) said it was decided in 2010 to destroy the disembarkation cards, which dated back to the 1950s and 60s, when the Home Office’s Whitgift Centre in Croydon was closed and the staff were moved to another site. Employees in his department told their managers it was a bad idea, because these papers were often the last remaining record of a person’s arrival date, in the event of uncertainty or lost documents.

    The files were destroyed in October that year, when Theresa May was Home Secretary


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    If this is true, Rudd must go.
    Sounds like a middle manager c*** up. What's the betting that they were shrinking space, had a limited move budget and were told to destroy old documents per the department record retention policy. Nobody will have escalated staff concerns up for ministerial decision or SPAD review - who would have spotted the political risk. Bureaucracies are often stupid.
    That won't wash in this case.

    The civil servant in charge of the UK Border Agency at the time was Brodie Clark, who was required to cope with "an £85m running cost reduction" imposed by the Home Office.

    Brodie Clark resigned in 2011 expressly citing May's interference and lack of support. ("With the home secretary announcing and repeating her view that I am at fault, I cannot see how any process conducted by the Home Office, or under its auspices, can be fair and balanced." https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/nov/08/brodie-clark-resigns-theresa-may )

    The buck stops at the top. If May survives this unscathed, she truly is made of Teflon. (Or Labour is utterly incapable of capitalising on her weakness, which I fear is largely true.)
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    We must hope the Conservatives hold Barnet.

    F1: nice article by Palmer on Hamilton and the season so far:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43778200

    Indeed, the Barnet border is about a mile away from me.
    Just past the Duke of York pub
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Some Tory idiot is confusing pacifism with parliamentary scrutiny and accountability.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Tools. Let the couple enjoy their happy day.

    This is like the Westboro Church protesting at military funerals

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/986236513582178311?s=21

    They should let the gays and the old ladies enjoy the occasion and not ruin their day.
    Why the casual homophobia???
    Looks in mirror. Nah!
    Then why 'the gays' and not 'us gays' or some other more positive use of language?
    FFS. I am from Scotland. I promise in future to say "we Scots" rather than "the Scots". Do not throw your crap at me.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    edited April 2018

    rcs1000 said:

    The Home Office destroyed [deleted ...]

    A former Home Office employee said the records, stored in the basement of a government tower block, were a vital resource for case workers when they were asked to find information about someone’s arrival date in the UK from the West Indies – usually when the individual was struggling to resolve immigration status problems.

    Although the home secretary, Amber Rudd, has promised to make it easier for Windrush-generation residents to regularise their status, the destruction of the database is likely to make the process harder, even with the support of the new taskforce announced this week.

    The former employee (who has asked for his name not to be printed) said it was decided in 2010 to destroy the disembarkation cards, which dated back to the 1950s and 60s, when the Home Office’s Whitgift Centre in Croydon was closed and the staff were moved to another site. Employees in his department told their managers it was a bad idea, because these papers were often the last remaining record of a person’s arrival date, in the event of uncertainty or lost documents.

    The files were destroyed in October that year, when Theresa May was Home Secretary

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    If this is true, Rudd must go.
    Sounds like a middle manager c*** up. What's the betting that they were shrinking space, had a limited move budget and were told to destroy old documents per the department record retention policy. Nobody will have escalated staff concerns up for ministerial decision or SPAD review - who would have spotted the political risk. Bureaucracies are often stupid.
    That won't wash in this case.

    The civil servant in charge of the UK Border Agency at the time was Brodie Clark, who was required to cope with "an £85m running cost reduction" imposed by the Home Office.

    Brodie Clark resigned in 2011 expressly citing May's interference and lack of support. ("With the home secretary announcing and repeating her view that I am at fault, I cannot see how any process conducted by the Home Office, or under its auspices, can be fair and balanced." https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/nov/08/brodie-clark-resigns-theresa-may )

    The buck stops at the top. If May survives this unscathed, she truly is made of Teflon. (Or Labour is utterly incapable of capitalising on her weakness, which I fear is largely true.)
    Yes, the opposition is as useless as a chocolate teapot.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    That won't wash in this case.

    The civil servant in charge of the UK Border Agency at the time was Brodie Clark, who was required to cope with "an £85m running cost reduction" imposed by the Home Office.

    Brodie Clark resigned in 2011 expressly citing May's interference and lack of support. ("With the home secretary announcing and repeating her view that I am at fault, I cannot see how any process conducted by the Home Office, or under its auspices, can be fair and balanced." https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/nov/08/brodie-clark-resigns-theresa-may )

    The buck stops at the top. If May survives this unscathed, she truly is made of Teflon. (Or Labour is utterly incapable of capitalising on her weakness, which I fear is largely true.)

    Are you suggesting that Theresa May forced the guy responsible for the decision to resign?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    edited April 2018
    Cyclefree said:



    That raises an interesting and important question. What is the retention policy for government records? If stuff like this is being destroyed without being stored in some other form, how can we be certain that other records which will or may be needed decades later (eg pension / tax / NI records) are also being properly kept?

    Some bright MP might wish to raise this point. This - potentially - goes wider than just Windrush records.

    NI records are digitised and you can view your entire payment history (By year) by logging into the HMRC website https://www.gov.uk/log-in-register-hmrc-online-services. It told me I've accrued just under a hundred quid a week state pension at the moment.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,108

    Nigelb said:

    Question - why are Labour MPs being whipped to vote against our own emergency debate motion?

    Answer - because Corbyn is a wassock

    I've always spelt it as 'wazzock'

    I'm so confused now.
    No, you were right. Yorkshire and Lancashire agree on the point, so it must be correct.

    (I think 'wassock' is some Midland dialect... and autocorrect tries to change it to cassock.)
    Derbyshire votes "wazzock".
    Hertfordshire would spell it wazzock too
    It is Wazzock. What is this ridiculous "Wassock"? FFS.

    Me duck.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,069
    Mr. Labour, confusion and idiocy, whilst not the sole preserves of Corbyn and his allies, are certainly areas of profound expertise for them.

    This Windrush disgrace is the kind of thing that would have me wondering about voting for a different party at the next GE, perhaps Labour. But I cannot even contemplate doing that whilst the far left has a stranglehold on the party's leadership.

    It's a wretched thing when a PM that's lacklustre at best remains far preferable to the Opposition, led as it is by a man whose number two praised bombs when used against innocent British civilians, and who himself condemns bombs when used to destroy chemical weapons facilities shortly after they were used on civilians.

    And that's before we get onto Corbyn's desire for Russia to have a veto on British foreign policy. The man's a fool. At best.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,108

    rcs1000 said:

    The Home Office destroyed thousands of landing card slips recording Windrush immigrants’ arrival dates in the UK, despite staff warnings that the move would make it harder to check the records of older Caribbean-born residents experiencing residency difficulties.

    A former Home Office employee sai
    Although the home secretary, Amber Rudd, has promised to make it easier for Windrush-generation residents to regularise their status, the destruction of the database is likely to make the process harder, even with the support of the new taskforce announced this week.

    The former employee (who has asked for his name not to be printed) said it was decided in 2010 to destroy the disembarkation cards, which dated back to the 1950s and 60s, when the Home Office’s Whitgift Centre in Croydon was closed and the staff were moved to another site. Employees in his department told their managers it was a bad idea, because these papers were often the last remaining record of a person’s arrival date, in the event of uncertainty or lost documents.

    The files were destroyed in October that year, when Theresa May was Home Secretary


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    If this is true, Rudd must go.
    Sounds like a middle manager c*** up. What's the betting that they were shrinking space, had a limited move budget and were told to destroy old documents per the department record retention policy. Nobody will have escalated staff concerns up for ministerial decision or SPAD review - who would have spotted the political risk. Bureaucracies are often stupid.
    That won't wash in this case.

    The civil servant in charge of the UK Border Agency at the time was Brodie Clark, who was required to cope with "an £85m running cost reduction" imposed by the Home Office.

    Brodie Clark resigned in 2011 expressly citing May's interference and lack of support. ("With the home secretary announcing and repeating her view that I am at fault, I cannot see how any process conducted by the Home Office, or under its auspices, can be fair and balanced." https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/nov/08/brodie-clark-resigns-theresa-may )

    The buck stops at the top. If May survives this unscathed, she truly is made of Teflon. (Or Labour is utterly incapable of capitalising on her weakness, which I fear is largely true.)
    2010. Surely the thinking was: no sane government would ever fuck around with people who have been here for decades and are a part of the settled population. Would they?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Mr. Labour, confusion and idiocy, whilst not the sole preserves of Corbyn and his allies, are certainly areas of profound expertise for them.

    This Windrush disgrace is the kind of thing that would have me wondering about voting for a different party at the next GE, perhaps Labour. But I cannot even contemplate doing that whilst the far left has a stranglehold on the party's leadership.

    It's a wretched thing when a PM that's lacklustre at best remains far preferable to the Opposition, led as it is by a man whose number two praised bombs when used against innocent British civilians, and who himself condemns bombs when used to destroy chemical weapons facilities shortly after they were used on civilians.

    And that's before we get onto Corbyn's desire for Russia to have a veto on British foreign policy. The man's a fool. At best.

    He might grow on you like one of the plants in his allotment.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,925



    Surely Rudd could have told the officials to apply an element of common sense?

    Both the policy and its implementation were minister-led. This is not some junior administrative bungle. In the current climate, common sense is not required - mindless cruelty against outsiders is to be preferred.
    Indeed. The Tories already treat the disabled, the dying and the chronically sick in an inhuman manner. I used to think it was unthinking, then I realised it was policy. Doesn't matter that scores of people have committed suicide as a direct result of this policy, doesn't matter that the government loses most appeals so that the policy actually costs us money, its the spectacle of being seen as mean to Daily Mail readers thats the important bit.
    Don't be silly.
    Which bit is silly? People have committed suicide. Most appeals are successful. It costs money. Yet it continues as policy.

    If there is an alternate explanation as to why I am all ears
    The idea that minister are deliberately pursuing a policy which drives people to suicide is just completely, utterly, bonkers, as well as exceedingly offensive....
    Deliberately pursuing a policy without giving much, if any thought to its likely effects on the most vulnerable, then.
    The years of official indifference to reports of such problems is equally offensive.

    And isn't that what impact assessments are supposed to be about ?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,718

    The bet is good in its own terms. But I'm not sure that the fight can be reduced to three wards. There could be some wild cards.

    Potentially, any of High Barnet, Mill Hill, and Oakleigh could see one seat out of three going Labour, and either of West Hendon and Underhill could see one seat of three going Conservative, but they are all very long shots.
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