I suspect Mrs May is more likely to make Nick Timothy a cabinet minister than Rory.
Yeah, perhaps...is there bad blood with Rory?
I'm surprised Penny Mordaunt survived unscathed from her lies about Turkey EU membership in the referendum - a risky choice to promote to cabinet. I'd have thought that Alistair Burt would be the ideal replacement.
Alistair Burt is THE great survivor in Tory politics - I think he's been fired twice from the government at various points since 2010 and then brought back!
Have you ruled yourself out of DfID JohnO?
It is a self evident proposition that the next step up from being a Surrey County Councillor is membership of the Cabinet. The telephone is within 3 inches of this laptop.
I was reading somewhere the other day that there is growing concern that group therapy in these kinds of settings can lead to a 'normalisation' affect for immoral behaviour.
Mr. Borough, that's probably also an effect (at the extreme end) of social media echo chambers, in darker settings than is usual.
Which makes me wonder if the echo chamber has the general impact of thinning the moderate centre and driving people more and more to extreme positions that they would otherwise not have adopted.
Mr. Borough, that's probably also an effect (at the extreme end) of social media echo chambers, in darker settings than is usual.
Which makes me wonder if the echo chamber has the general impact of thinning the moderate centre and driving people more and more to extreme positions that they would otherwise not have adopted.
As a computer scientist, on my blacker days, I am starting to wonder whether my discipline's invention of internet and web and so on, has not been a f***ing disaster.
I was reading somewhere the other day that there is growing concern that group therapy in these kinds of settings can lead to a 'normalisation' affect for immoral behaviour.
It’s the Hollywood way, medicalising deviant behaviour in an attempt to garner public sympathy. Certain names mentioned in recent weeks need to be in prison rather than in rehab.
Mr. Borough, that's probably also an effect (at the extreme end) of social media echo chambers, in darker settings than is usual.
Which makes me wonder if the echo chamber has the general impact of thinning the moderate centre and driving people more and more to extreme positions that they would otherwise not have adopted.
As a computer scientist, on my blacker days, I am starting to wonder whether my discipline's invention of internet and web and so on, has not been a f***ing disaster.
This essay of a couple of days ago shows how it is all going wrong, and will continue to go wronger.
Someone or something or some combination of people and things is using YouTube to systematically frighten, traumatise, and abuse children, automatically and at scale, and it forces me to question my own beliefs about the internet, at every level https://medium.com/@jamesbridle/something-is-wrong-on-the-internet-c39c471271d2
Its a little overblown and non-technical, but it makes you wonder.
Happily I live in a place with no where near enough bandwidth to support Youtube so my kids take the unusual approach of reading, drawing, swimming and (sharp intake of breath) going out to play.
Mr. Borough, that's probably also an effect (at the extreme end) of social media echo chambers, in darker settings than is usual.
Which makes me wonder if the echo chamber has the general impact of thinning the moderate centre and driving people more and more to extreme positions that they would otherwise not have adopted.
As a computer scientist, on my blacker days, I am starting to wonder whether my discipline's invention of internet and web and so on, has not been a f***ing disaster.
I agree. Whilst in some ways the internet has been a great leveller it is also one heck of an echo chamber for the "braver" keyboard warriors.
I think I would rather go back to reading Knuth or Wirth and writing search algorithms for B-Trees to minimise index-height on database searches. There was something theraputic about it....
I was reading somewhere the other day that there is growing concern that group therapy in these kinds of settings can lead to a 'normalisation' affect for immoral behaviour.
It’s the Hollywood way, medicalising deviant behaviour in an attempt to garner public sympathy. Certain names mentioned in recent weeks need to be in prison rather than in rehab.
Presumably the law is working in parallel whilst they attend these clinics? It's all allegations so far iirc.
Mr. Borough, the internet's neither good nor bad, just powerful.
The long-term psychological and social impact of it will be difficult to tease out, though.
Mrs C, in the olden days (the 1990s) someone being a dick in a pub would get told to shut up by the other 20-30 patrons, and have little heed paid to them. But dicks online find it easy to discover one another and form noisy groups that can relentlessly bark on and drown out more moderate voices.
Well, that's my theory anyway. Also worth noting there are many good points about the internet too.
Mr. Borough, that's probably also an effect (at the extreme end) of social media echo chambers, in darker settings than is usual.
Which makes me wonder if the echo chamber has the general impact of thinning the moderate centre and driving people more and more to extreme positions that they would otherwise not have adopted.
As a computer scientist, on my blacker days, I am starting to wonder whether my discipline's invention of internet and web and so on, has not been a f***ing disaster.
I agree. Whilst in some ways the internet has been a great leveller it is also one heck of an echo chamber for the "braver" keyboard warriors.
I think I would rather go back to reading Knuth or Wirth and writing search algorithms for B-Trees to minimise index-height on database searches. There was something theraputic about it....
I was reading somewhere the other day that there is growing concern that group therapy in these kinds of settings can lead to a 'normalisation' affect for immoral behaviour.
It’s the Hollywood way, medicalising deviant behaviour in an attempt to garner public sympathy. Certain names mentioned in recent weeks need to be in prison rather than in rehab.
Presumably the law is working in parallel whilst they attend these clinics? It's all allegations so far iirc.
Hope so! NYPD say they have enough evidence to arrest Weinstein for rape, so that may happen soon. Police in London are investigating complaints about Spacey, but unlike in the US we’re not going to get a running commentary from them.
Mr. Borough, that's probably also an effect (at the extreme end) of social media echo chambers, in darker settings than is usual.
Which makes me wonder if the echo chamber has the general impact of thinning the moderate centre and driving people more and more to extreme positions that they would otherwise not have adopted.
As a computer scientist, on my blacker days, I am starting to wonder whether my discipline's invention of internet and web and so on, has not been a f***ing disaster.
I agree. Whilst in some ways the internet has been a great leveller it is also one heck of an echo chamber for the "braver" keyboard warriors.
I think I would rather go back to reading Knuth or Wirth and writing search algorithms for B-Trees to minimise index-height on database searches. There was something theraputic about it....
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Just give me the facts. It was quite close, so not really a 'command' from the people.
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Self evidently the strength of a mandate relates to its size, in the same way that a government with a big majority is taken more seriously and has a stronger mandate than one with a wafer thin one.
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Just give me the facts. It was quite close, so not really a 'command' from the people.
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Just give me the facts. It was quite close, so not really a 'command' from the people.
contains this quote: "This is not Watergate, of course, and Brexit must happen because that is what the people have commanded."
The people didn't command it they tentatively suggested it by under 4%.
On the understanding that the UK could have the exact same benefits, £350m per week for the NHS, free owls and a silver unicorn on every street corner.
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Self evidently the strength of a mandate relates to its size, in the same way that a government with a big majority is taken more seriously and has a stronger mandate than one with a wafer thin one.
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Just give me the facts. It was quite close, so not really a 'command' from the people.
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Self evidently the strength of a mandate relates to its size, in the same way that a government with a big majority is taken more seriously and has a stronger mandate than one with a wafer thin one.
Mr. Borough, that's probably also an effect (at the extreme end) of social media echo chambers, in darker settings than is usual.
Which makes me wonder if the echo chamber has the general impact of thinning the moderate centre and driving people more and more to extreme positions that they would otherwise not have adopted.
As a computer scientist, on my blacker days, I am starting to wonder whether my discipline's invention of internet and web and so on, has not been a f***ing disaster.
I agree. Whilst in some ways the internet has been a great leveller it is also one heck of an echo chamber for the "braver" keyboard warriors.
I think I would rather go back to reading Knuth or Wirth and writing search algorithms for B-Trees to minimise index-height on database searches. There was something theraputic about it....
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Self evidently the strength of a mandate relates to its size, in the same way that a government with a big majority is taken more seriously and has a stronger mandate than one with a wafer thin one.
Quite. They won, but it wasn't a landslide. The people may have spoken but not very loudly. I wouldn't describe it as a 'command'.
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Just give me the facts. It was quite close, so not really a 'command' from the people.
So when Parliament passed the Televising of Parliament Bill (1990) on the casting vote of Deputy Speaker Weatherill that was more of a suggestion than a law ?
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Self evidently the strength of a mandate relates to its size, in the same way that a government with a big majority is taken more seriously and has a stronger mandate than one with a wafer thin one.
So would you abolish the Welsh Assembly then?
I think you are missing the point.
Why? The 1997 Welsh referendum was 50.3% YES, 49.7% NO, much tighter than EURef.
By your logic, we should not have invoked a Welsh Assembly in 1999.
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Just give me the facts. It was quite close, so not really a 'command' from the people.
So when Parliament passed the Televising of Parliament Bill (1990) on the casting vote of Deputy Speaker Weatherill that was more of a suggestion than a law ?
Really?
I thought the casting vote was always a vote for the status quo on the grounds the proponents hadn't convinced the house of the case for change?
The single market obviously means uncontrolled free movement which also means failing to respect the Leave vote fully and the millions of working class Leave voters who voted Leave to reduce immigration.
So that is clearly a non starter at this time. As is obviously the EU given the Leave victory.
All our choices are non-starters. Which is why Theresa May rejected them all in her Florence speech. We have to pick one. The PTA is at least as problematic as the others. Once those problems become clearer there will be pressure to do something different. From where I see it, the EEA is the least difficult of those options. I should stress it isn't MY choice. Getting less than what we had as a members and removing all formal influence over what happens to us makes no sense to me. But we are where we are. We have to make the best of it.
If the Conservatives won't implement EEA, Jeremy Corbyn will, closet Brexiteer or no.
Corbyn has made clear he won't back EEA permanently either to keep the 37% of Labour Leavers and 20% of UKIP voters he won on board and to ensure he can implement a socialist agenda.
Only the LDs and SNP and Greens back permanent single market membership and they got 7% and under 5% and 1% in June across the UK respectively.
If Labour comes to power between now and Brexit - quite a likely scenario at the rate we're going - it will say the Tories have royally f*cked up the Brexit process and the only way we can avoid a disastrous crash out is to accept EEA for a "transitional" period.
When the fuss has died down it will become clear that nobody really wants to transition any further - the UK will still face a cliff edge if it exits the EEA and the EU will have no reason to move since it will have lost the troublesome Brits from the political structure and they will still be paying in to the budget.
And the Tories will be blamed by everyone.
Win win really.
If it is Labour which ends up leaving EU immigration uncontrolled to stay permanently in the EEA it is lose lose for them with their white working class vote
I suspect Mrs May is more likely to make Nick Timothy a cabinet minister than Rory.
Yeah, perhaps...is there bad blood with Rory?
I'm surprised Penny Mordaunt survived unscathed from her lies about Turkey EU membership in the referendum - a risky choice to promote to cabinet. I'd have thought that Alistair Burt would be the ideal replacement.
Alistair Burt is THE great survivor in Tory politics - I think he's been fired twice from the government at various points since 2010 and then brought back!
Have you ruled yourself out of DfID JohnO?
It is a self evident proposition that the next step up from being a Surrey County Councillor is membership of the Cabinet. The telephone is within 3 inches of this laptop.
Surely Surrey County Council has its own Cabinet nowadays?
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Self evidently the strength of a mandate relates to its size, in the same way that a government with a big majority is taken more seriously and has a stronger mandate than one with a wafer thin one.
So would you abolish the Welsh Assembly then?
I think you are missing the point.
Why? The 1997 Welsh referendum was 50.3% YES, 49.7% NO, much tighter than EURef.
By your logic, we should not have invoked a Welsh Assembly in 1999.
I invite most PB'ers to skip this post, but here it is for you, Sunil, nice and clear:
Scenario 1: everyone in Wales except Person A votes for the Assembly, a majority of 99.99...% surpassing even Albanian norms. After a while Person A says the Assembly isn't a good idea and starts a campaign against it.
Scenario 2: the vote for the Assembly goes through by a single vote. After a while Person B, who voted for it, says it isn't a good idea and s/he has changed their mind, and starts a campaign against it.
Self evidently Person B and their arguments are going to be taken a lot more seriously and credibly than Person A, who will probably become a figure of fun.
Every other result lies on a continuum between Scenarios 1 and 2.
I suspect Mrs May is more likely to make Nick Timothy a cabinet minister than Rory.
Yeah, perhaps...is there bad blood with Rory?
I'm surprised Penny Mordaunt survived unscathed from her lies about Turkey EU membership in the referendum - a risky choice to promote to cabinet. I'd have thought that Alistair Burt would be the ideal replacement.
Alistair Burt is THE great survivor in Tory politics - I think he's been fired twice from the government at various points since 2010 and then brought back!
Have you ruled yourself out of DfID JohnO?
It is a self evident proposition that the next step up from being a Surrey County Councillor is membership of the Cabinet. The telephone is within 3 inches of this laptop.
Surely Surrey County Council has its own Cabinet nowadays?
Pale imitation of the real thing. Still no call he reports disconsolately.
I suspect Mrs May is more likely to make Nick Timothy a cabinet minister than Rory.
Yeah, perhaps...is there bad blood with Rory?
I'm surprised Penny Mordaunt survived unscathed from her lies about Turkey EU membership in the referendum - a risky choice to promote to cabinet. I'd have thought that Alistair Burt would be the ideal replacement.
Alistair Burt is THE great survivor in Tory politics - I think he's been fired twice from the government at various points since 2010 and then brought back!
Have you ruled yourself out of DfID JohnO?
It is a self evident proposition that the next step up from being a Surrey County Councillor is membership of the Cabinet. The telephone is within 3 inches of this laptop.
Surely Surrey County Council has its own Cabinet nowadays?
Pale imitation of the real thing. Still no call he reports disconsolately.
You're better off where you are. Suppose the call came and you were asked to implement Brexit with David Davis. What then? You can do more good where you are.
"Southern Railway drivers vote to end long-running strike Drivers will receive a pay rise of 28.5% over the next five years and be joined on-board by a colleague with full safety training."
I suspect Mrs May is more likely to make Nick Timothy a cabinet minister than Rory.
Yeah, perhaps...is there bad blood with Rory?
I'm surprised Penny Mordaunt survived unscathed from her lies about Turkey EU membership in the referendum - a risky choice to promote to cabinet. I'd have thought that Alistair Burt would be the ideal replacement.
Alistair Burt is THE great survivor in Tory politics - I think he's been fired twice from the government at various points since 2010 and then brought back!
Have you ruled yourself out of DfID JohnO?
It is a self evident proposition that the next step up from being a Surrey County Councillor is membership of the Cabinet. The telephone is within 3 inches of this laptop.
Surely Surrey County Council has its own Cabinet nowadays?
Pale imitation of the real thing. Still no call he reports disconsolately.
You're better off where you are. Suppose the call came and you were asked to implement Brexit with David Davis. What then? You can do more good where you are.
That’s the stuff of nightmares. Hero of Hersham I shall remain.
I suspect Mrs May is more likely to make Nick Timothy a cabinet minister than Rory.
Yeah, perhaps...is there bad blood with Rory?
I'm surprised Penny Mordaunt survived unscathed from her lies about Turkey EU membership in the referendum - a risky choice to promote to cabinet. I'd have thought that Alistair Burt would be the ideal replacement.
Alistair Burt is THE great survivor in Tory politics - I think he's been fired twice from the government at various points since 2010 and then brought back!
Have you ruled yourself out of DfID JohnO?
It is a self evident proposition that the next step up from being a Surrey County Councillor is membership of the Cabinet. The telephone is within 3 inches of this laptop.
Surely Surrey County Council has its own Cabinet nowadays?
Pale imitation of the real thing. Still no call he reports disconsolately.
You're better off where you are. Suppose the call came and you were asked to implement Brexit with David Davis. What then? You can do more good where you are.
That’s the stuff of nightmares. Hero of a Hersham I shall remain.
Don't take offence, but I can think of achievements more heroic than getting elected to Surrey County Council as a Conservative...
Now, maybe if you had pressed ahead and increased your council tax by 15% and then got elected, you might have a point.
I suspect Mrs May is more likely to make Nick Timothy a cabinet minister than Rory.
Yeah, perhaps...is there bad blood with Rory?
I'm surprised Penny Mordaunt survived unscathed from her lies about Turkey EU membership in the referendum - a risky choice to promote to cabinet. I'd have thought that Alistair Burt would be the ideal replacement.
Alistair Burt is THE great survivor in Tory politics - I think he's been fired twice from the government at various points since 2010 and then brought back!
Have you ruled yourself out of DfID JohnO?
It is a self evident proposition that the next step up from being a Surrey County Councillor is membership of the Cabinet. The telephone is within 3 inches of this laptop.
Surely Surrey County Council has its own Cabinet nowadays?
Pale imitation of the real thing. Still no call he reports disconsolately.
You're better off where you are. Suppose the call came and you were asked to implement Brexit with David Davis. What then? You can do more good where you are.
That’s the stuff of nightmares. Hero of a Hersham I shall remain.
Don't take offence, but I can think of achievements more heroic than getting elected to Surrey County Council as a Conservative...
Now, maybe if you had pressed ahead and increased your council tax by 15% and then got elected, you might have a point.
You LibDems are just too intense for your own good.
"Southern Railway drivers vote to end long-running strike Drivers will receive a pay rise of 28.5% over the next five years and be joined on-board by a colleague with full safety training."
"Southern Railway drivers vote to end long-running strike Drivers will receive a pay rise of 28.5% over the next five years and be joined on-board by a colleague with full safety training."
They turned down £70k a couple of months ago, so can only assume that this offer is an improvement on that. Bonkers money for the job, and will mean everyone’s fares go up to pay for it.
"Southern Railway drivers vote to end long-running strike Drivers will receive a pay rise of 28.5% over the next five years and be joined on-board by a colleague with full safety training."
"Southern Railway drivers vote to end long-running strike Drivers will receive a pay rise of 28.5% over the next five years and be joined on-board by a colleague with full safety training."
They turned down £70k a couple of months ago, so can only assume that this offer is an improvement on that. Bonkers money for the job, and will mean everyone’s fares go up to pay for it.
They've given up the guard point though, which is more important.
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
Self evidently the strength of a mandate relates to its size, in the same way that a government with a big majority is taken more seriously and has a stronger mandate than one with a wafer thin one.
So would you abolish the Welsh Assembly then?
I think you are missing the point.
Why? The 1997 Welsh referendum was 50.3% YES, 49.7% NO, much tighter than EURef.
By your logic, we should not have invoked a Welsh Assembly in 1999.
I invite most PB'ers to skip this post, but here it is for you, Sunil, nice and clear:
Scenario 1: everyone in Wales except Person A votes for the Assembly, a majority of 99.99...% surpassing even Albanian norms. After a while Person A says the Assembly isn't a good idea and starts a campaign against it.
Scenario 2: the vote for the Assembly goes through by a single vote. After a while Person B, who voted for it, says it isn't a good idea and s/he has changed their mind, and starts a campaign against it.
Self evidently Person B and their arguments are going to be taken a lot more seriously and credibly than Person A, who will probably become a figure of fun.
Every other result lies on a continuum between Scenarios 1 and 2.
The other close result I listed was Quebec 1995 - "NO (to Independence)" won by 1.2%, again, a tighter margin than EURef.
The single market obviously means uncontrolled free movement which also means failing to respect the Leave vote fully and the millions of working class Leave voters who voted Leave to reduce immigration.
So that is clearly a non starter at this time. As is obviously the EU given the Leave victory.
All our choices are non-starters. Which is why Theresa May rejected them all in her Florence speech. We have to pick one. The PTA is at least as problematic as the others. Once those problems become clearer there will be pressure to do something different. From where I see it, the EEA is the least difficult of those options. I should stress it isn't MY choice. Getting less than what we had as a members and removing all formal influence over what happens to us makes no sense to me. But we are where we are. We have to make the best of it.
If the Conservatives won't implement EEA, Jeremy Corbyn will, closet Brexiteer or no.
Corbyn has made clear he won't back EEA permanently either to keep the 37% of Labour Leavers and 20% of UKIP voters he won on board and to ensure he can implement a socialist agenda.
Only the LDs and SNP and Greens back permanent single market membership and they got 7% and under 5% and 1% in June across the UK respectively.
If Labour comes to power between now and Brexit - quite a likely scenario at the rate we're going - it will say the Tories have royally f*cked up the Brexit process and the only way we can avoid a disastrous crash out is to accept EEA for a "transitional" period.
When the fuss has died down it will become clear that nobody really wants to transition any further - the UK will still face a cliff edge if it exits the EEA and the EU will have no reason to move since it will have lost the troublesome Brits from the political structure and they will still be paying in to the budget.
And the Tories will be blamed by everyone.
Win win really.
If it is Labour which ends up leaving EU immigration uncontrolled to stay permanently in the EEA it is lose lose for them with their white working class vote
A Corbyn victory is likely to hugely reduce net immigration. It might even go negative. Much of the WWC will be happy with that and controls will not be needed.
"Southern Railway drivers vote to end long-running strike Drivers will receive a pay rise of 28.5% over the next five years and be joined on-board by a colleague with full safety training."
They turned down £70k a couple of months ago, so can only assume that this offer is an improvement on that. Bonkers money for the job, and will mean everyone’s fares go up to pay for it.
I picked the wrong day to give up trainspotting
(only kidding - just by chance, saw a brand new Hitachi Class 800 pass through Willesden high level this afternoon).
The single market obviously means uncontrolled free movement which also means failing to respect the Leave vote fully and the millions of working class Leave voters who voted Leave to reduce immigration.
So that is clearly a non starter at this time. As is obviously the EU given the Leave victory.
All our choices are non-starters. Which is why Theresa May rejected them all in her Florence speech. We have to pick one. The PTA is at least as problematic as the others. Once those problems become clearer there will be pressure to do something different. From where I see it, the EEA is the least difficult of those options. I should stress it isn't MY choice. Getting less than what we had as a members and removing all formal influence over what happens to us makes no sense to me. But we are where we are. We have to make the best of it.
If the Conservatives won't implement EEA, Jeremy Corbyn will, closet Brexiteer or no.
Corbyn has made clear he won't back EEA permanently either to keep the 37% of Labour Leavers and 20% of UKIP voters he won on board and to ensure he can implement a socialist agenda.
Only the LDs and SNP and Greens back permanent single market membership and they got 7% and under 5% and 1% in June across the UK respectively.
If Labour comes to power between now and Brexit - quite a likely scenario at the rate we're going - it will say the Tories have royally f*cked up the Brexit process and the only way we can avoid a disastrous crash out is to accept EEA for a "transitional" period.
When the fuss has died down it will become clear that nobody really wants to transition any further - the UK will still face a cliff edge if it exits the EEA and the EU will have no reason to move since it will have lost the troublesome Brits from the political structure and they will still be paying in to the budget.
And the Tories will be blamed by everyone.
Win win really.
If it is Labour which ends up leaving EU immigration uncontrolled to stay permanently in the EEA it is lose lose for them with their white working class vote
A Corbyn victory is likely to hugely reduce net immigration. It might even go negative. Much of the WWC will be happy with that and controls will not be needed.
If the economy crashes yes through Corbynite tax and spend and nationalise yes, though that might leave Labour with a few other problems as well
Comments
http://www.ntd.tv/2017/11/07/kevin-spacey-attending-same-rehab-clinic-as-harvey-weinstein/
Competence not a factor...
Which makes me wonder if the echo chamber has the general impact of thinning the moderate centre and driving people more and more to extreme positions that they would otherwise not have adopted.
https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/928289985316507648
Someone or something or some combination of people and things is using YouTube to systematically frighten, traumatise, and abuse children, automatically and at scale, and it forces me to question my own beliefs about the internet, at every level
https://medium.com/@jamesbridle/something-is-wrong-on-the-internet-c39c471271d2
Its a little overblown and non-technical, but it makes you wonder.
Happily I live in a place with no where near enough bandwidth to support Youtube so my kids take the unusual approach of reading, drawing, swimming and (sharp intake of breath) going out to play.
I think I would rather go back to reading Knuth or Wirth and writing search algorithms for B-Trees to minimise index-height on database searches. There was something theraputic about it....
The stunning worldwide success of Marxism was based on the same principle ...
The long-term psychological and social impact of it will be difficult to tease out, though.
Mrs C, in the olden days (the 1990s) someone being a dick in a pub would get told to shut up by the other 20-30 patrons, and have little heed paid to them. But dicks online find it easy to discover one another and form noisy groups that can relentlessly bark on and drown out more moderate voices.
Well, that's my theory anyway. Also worth noting there are many good points about the internet too.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/11/never-mind-fake-news-this-is-fake-government/
contains this quote: "This is not Watergate, of course, and Brexit must happen because that is what the people have commanded."
The people didn't command it they tentatively suggested it by under 4%.
DCMS, party chair, Immigration...
program Brexit ( output );
begin
writeln ('Goodbye common sense');
end.
"No Mr Corbyn, you can't nationalise the Royal Mail, the public didn't vote for Labour, they tentatively suggested it by under 4%."
No
Way
I keep seeing comments on PB.com, and the wider MSM, about the EU Referendum being a close result, with the implication that it was the closest referendum result in human history, and that because it was such a narrow win for LEAVE, that somehow that made the result illegitimate. Perhaps I exaggerate with the previous sentence, but you know what I mean!
It would be amusing for a Brexiteer to be sent there and sort out that very simple project fear problem of the Irish border.
The Papist JRM as Northern Ireland Secretary is an awesome idea.
Shift her sideways? Like out the window?
TMay might be tempted, but she probably better not.
It was quite close, so not really a 'command' from the people.
By your logic, we should not have invoked a Welsh Assembly in 1999.
I thought the casting vote was always a vote for the status quo on the grounds the proponents hadn't convinced the house of the case for change?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cambridge-students-horrified-by-hard-work-claims-professor-eugene-terentjev-7t9f8jt6l
Scenario 1: everyone in Wales except Person A votes for the Assembly, a majority of 99.99...% surpassing even Albanian norms. After a while Person A says the Assembly isn't a good idea and starts a campaign against it.
Scenario 2: the vote for the Assembly goes through by a single vote. After a while Person B, who voted for it, says it isn't a good idea and s/he has changed their mind, and starts a campaign against it.
Self evidently Person B and their arguments are going to be taken a lot more seriously and credibly than Person A, who will probably become a figure of fun.
Every other result lies on a continuum between Scenarios 1 and 2.
"Southern Railway drivers vote to end long-running strike
Drivers will receive a pay rise of 28.5% over the next five years and be joined on-board by a colleague with full safety training."
http://news.sky.com/story/southern-railway-drivers-vote-to-end-long-running-strike-11118546
Now, maybe if you had pressed ahead and increased your council tax by 15% and then got elected, you might have a point.
https://twitter.com/jlsinc/status/928246919272509442
£51 quid was matched on Ruth Davidson at evens! Who on earth would back that?
("Colleague with full safety training" is a sop)
https://twitter.com/Angry_Voice/status/928289138486456320
(only kidding - just by chance, saw a brand new Hitachi Class 800 pass through Willesden high level this afternoon).
Downing St.... "the Prime Minister is beginning to get the hang of this trolling thing..."