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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After just 3 Tory PMs in 37 years we might soon 3 Tory PMs in

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  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    stevef said:

    ydoethur said:

    stevef said:

    Chris said:

    Spreadsheet Phil is one of the worst public speakers in the party. He's been around the block but can someone tell me what Grey Phil has done or achieved in any of his ministerial posts? As far as I can tell he's a no talent, no charisma, no hoper.

    The Tories need to hold their nerve and get a decent successor ready for post Brexit to take on Corbyn. Someone young, fresh and dynamic is needed but in two years not now.

    Another two years of Theresa May? Surely electoral suicide.
    Perhaps but replacing May with Hammond now is certain electoral suicide.
    Yes, but it's a quicker death.
    The Tories need to look to the bank benches or junior ranks for a new leader, not to aging mediocrities.
    Why? The ageing mediocrity approach hasn't been a complete disaster for Labour.

    And there is no Tory who approaches Corbyn in either age or mediocrity.
    I think Corbyn is not so much a mediocrity as a fanatic. Hammond blends un-noticed into the wallpaper, Corbyn rabble rouses against the very concept of bourgeois wallpaper. Put Hammond against Corbyn and its not much of a choice, but Corbyn would triumph by default.
    Corbyn vs Boris would be something to behold. Difficult to say which way it would go.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: by weird coincidence I decided to take notes of the race (only second time I've done this). Will probably prove quite useful writing it up.

    Bet was red, alas. I had £2 on Perez to win at 201. He would've, but for a needless collision...

    Anyway, don't want to say much more due to spoilers. A very hectic race.

    It was cr@p. Yes, there was excitement, but it was all artificial and I feel dirty for having got some enjoyment for it. They might as well just start randomly pulling cars into the pits.

    The Baku circuit should really be dropped from the calendar. The situation with the safety cars was farcical.

    (End grumpy old man mode)
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Sandpit said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: by weird coincidence I decided to take notes of the race (only second time I've done this). Will probably prove quite useful writing it up.

    Bet was red, alas. I had £2 on Perez to win at 201. He would've, but for a needless collision...

    Anyway, don't want to say much more due to spoilers. A very hectic race.

    Good luck writing that one up, to describe it as a hectic race is something of an understatement!
    Indeed. Mr Dancer's write-up will be a stern test of his literary skills. It'll sound more like fantasy fiction than all of his excellent books combined!
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Sandpit, I wasn't too bad at note-taking (first lap tricky) so hopefully they'll prove of use.

    But don't expect the post-race ramble to be up soon. It was a race not without incident :p
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Jessop, I partly agree. The safety car stuff was nonsense (NB this is a Pirelli/hard tyre and slow safety car issue exacerbated by the characteristics of the circuit). However, there was a lot of action.

    Mr. M, alas, there were no frisky elves involved :p
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,929
    edited June 2017
    Essexit said:

    stevef said:

    ydoethur said:

    stevef said:

    Chris said:

    Spreadsheet Phil is one of the worst public speakers in the party. He's been around the block but can someone tell me what Grey Phil has done or achieved in any of his ministerial posts? As far as I can tell he's a no talent, no charisma, no hoper.

    The Tories need to hold their nerve and get a decent successor ready for post Brexit to take on Corbyn. Someone young, fresh and dynamic is needed but in two years not now.

    Another two years of Theresa May? Surely electoral suicide.
    Perhaps but replacing May with Hammond now is certain electoral suicide.
    Yes, but it's a quicker death.
    The Tories need to look to the bank benches or junior ranks for a new leader, not to aging mediocrities.
    Why? The ageing mediocrity approach hasn't been a complete disaster for Labour.

    And there is no Tory who approaches Corbyn in either age or mediocrity.
    I think Corbyn is not so much a mediocrity as a fanatic. Hammond blends un-noticed into the wallpaper, Corbyn rabble rouses against the very concept of bourgeois wallpaper. Put Hammond against Corbyn and its not much of a choice, but Corbyn would triumph by default.
    Corbyn vs Boris would be something to behold. Difficult to say which way it would go.
    Farage vs Corbyn would be better. All the UKIP votes would go Tory plus most Tory Leave. Some Cameroons would go LD, I think Tory maj nailed on esp as Farage is quite liberal on most things other than immigration. I would love to see it
  • Options
    RadioheadRadiohead Posts: 17
    Jeremy backstage at Glastonbury said he would be PM in six months and scrap Trident
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Radiohead said:

    Jeremy backstage at Glastonbury said he would be PM in six months and scrap Trident

    Sounds like he overindulged on those brownies.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Radiohead said:

    Jeremy backstage at Glastonbury said he would be PM in six months and scrap Trident

    You only need to go back just a few weeks for another politician to think they would have a landslide 5 year majority and see how that worked out.

    Corbyn and McDonnell will be found out.

    McDonnell's inappropriate language over Grenfell today, Corbyn saying Trident will be axed, and that 1,000 labour peers will be appointed to abolish the HOL shows in many ways they are getting hoisted on their own petard
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,929

    Radiohead said:

    Jeremy backstage at Glastonbury said he would be PM in six months and scrap Trident

    You only need to go back just a few weeks for another politician to think they would have a landslide 5 year majority and see how that worked out.

    Corbyn and McDonnell will be found out.

    McDonnell's inappropriate language over Grenfell today, Corbyn saying Trident will be axed, and that 1,000 labour peers will be appointed to abolish the HOL shows in many ways they are getting hoisted on their own petard
    I think Radiohead might be another hilarious spoof account! Wayyyyyycist virtue signaller I reckon
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Who backed the safety car?

    No. But I've had 3 nibbles on Riccardo at 66/1, 100/1, 100/1.
    Cashing out at 1/20.
    Well done!!
    Got lucky with Lewis and vettel having to pit.
    A little lucky but they all count! What a mad race :D
    Ive never watched one there before. Track is dreadful but maybe that helped the race be wonderfully bonkers.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298

    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674
    Radiohead said:

    Jeremy backstage at Glastonbury said he would be PM in six months and scrap Trident

    https://twitter.com/Jack_Blanchard_/status/878998915143671812
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
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    RadioheadRadiohead Posts: 17
    http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/glastonbury-2017-michael-eavis-what-135650

    In a wide-ranging Q&A on Sunday (June 25) at Speakers Forum in the Green Futures area of Glastonbury Festival Michael Eavis revealed what Jeremy Corbyn said to him before appearing on the Pyramid Stage on Saturday.

    When asked about the Labour leader's appearance, Michael Eavis said: "Wasn't he fantastic?"

    "I said to when are you going to be prime minister? He said: 'In six months'."

    Eavis said he asked Corbyn: "When are you going to get rid of Trident?"

    "He said: 'as soon as I can'."

  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    edited June 2017
    F1: still writing the post-race tosh. Somewhat displeased that Ladbrokes have held the bets I made at 8, 7 and 5 to be valid but at retroactively altered odds of 1.08, 1.1 and 1.14. Once I've done the bookkeeping and written the post-race ramble I'll be writing an e-mail to them about this. Voiding bets is one thing, retaining them and altering the return from 700% to 8% is quite another.

    Edited extra bit: I did set up hedges, so although I'm down it's not by vast sums, but it's the principle of the thing.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298

    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
    He was very good and loyal - he would make a good interim leader himself
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Meanwhile on Corbyn....

    Learning the lessons of the last year of course - not. Hubris my cost TMay big time, if he doesn't calm it, reality will soon hit. Labour hardly have a insurmountable lead in polls. If the Tories can blow their lead so can Labour.

    Nothing is certain in these times.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2017

    Radiohead said:

    Jeremy backstage at Glastonbury said he would be PM in six months and scrap Trident

    https://twitter.com/Jack_Blanchard_/status/878998915143671812
    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.
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    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Mrs May is being held hostage in 10,Downing Street by the Conservative party.On a humanitarian basis-always a bit tricky for Tories-they should release her forthwith and allow her her freedom again to run through cornfields for the rest of her life.It would be such a happy release.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Who backed the safety car?

    No. But I've had 3 nibbles on Riccardo at 66/1, 100/1, 100/1.
    Cashing out at 1/20.
    Well done!!
    Got lucky with Lewis and vettel having to pit.
    A little lucky but they all count! What a mad race :D
    Ive never watched one there before. Track is dreadful but maybe that helped the race be wonderfully bonkers.
    That was only the second race there, after last year. The problem is that it's a very long street circuit, and it's difficult to clear dead cars out of the way. There's also a lot of 90 degree turns with no run off areas so any mistakes get punished. Talking of punished, I think Mr Vettel will be looking at additional penalties for his petulance, possibly even a race or two banned.

    To the occasional viewer that was a great race, and actually I quite like the idea of once a year holding a $100m demolition derby!
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited June 2017

    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
    He was very good and loyal - he would make a good interim leader himself
    I think Ken Clarke would be a great PM even if for a short period. But the Tories would never let him be leader.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,929

    Radiohead said:

    Jeremy backstage at Glastonbury said he would be PM in six months and scrap Trident

    https://twitter.com/Jack_Blanchard_/status/878998915143671812
    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.
    I actually wouldn't mind if we did scrap it, but why anyone would believe a word those two say is beyond me. It was 1.01 they were IRA supporters, you only have to see they way they look like their nuts are in a vice when they half heartedly deny it
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298

    Mrs May is being held hostage in 10,Downing Street by the Conservative party.On a humanitarian basis-always a bit tricky for Tories-they should release her forthwith and allow her her freedom again to run through cornfields for the rest of her life.It would be such a happy release.

    You are so caring about Theresa - but it is the bloody difficult women herself who will not be moved
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    isam said:

    Radiohead said:

    Jeremy backstage at Glastonbury said he would be PM in six months and scrap Trident

    https://twitter.com/Jack_Blanchard_/status/878998915143671812
    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.
    I actually wouldn't mind if we did scrap it, but why anyone would believe a word those two say is beyond me. It was 1.01 they were IRA supporters, you only have to see they way they look like their nuts are in a vice when they half heartedly deny it
    I mean that's the scary thing anybody with any sense knows what they really want, McDonnell has been caught on tape a number of times and it ain't a slightly more left wing government than blair that is for certain.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,196
    Radiohead said:

    http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/glastonbury-2017-michael-eavis-what-135650

    In a wide-ranging Q&A on Sunday (June 25) at Speakers Forum in the Green Futures area of Glastonbury Festival Michael Eavis revealed what Jeremy Corbyn said to him before appearing on the Pyramid Stage on Saturday.

    When asked about the Labour leader's appearance, Michael Eavis said: "Wasn't he fantastic?"

    "I said to when are you going to be prime minister? He said: 'In six months'."

    Eavis said he asked Corbyn: "When are you going to get rid of Trident?"

    "He said: 'as soon as I can'."

    As for the last statement, not quite the unexpected revelation of the century!
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,319

    On topic, the Hammond/DD combo is one I've suggested. What I think it comes down to is whether Conservative MPs think that Theresa May is so completely damaged that she simply won't be able to do the job, and in particular that she will be seen by our EU friends as incapable of overseeing Brexit. If so, then irrespective of anything else, she would have to replaced soon and it would have to be a men-in-grey-suits job, because there is no time for a full contest. Alternatively, if they think she can recover sufficient credibility to continue until 2019, when a proper contest could be held, then that would I think be seen as the better option. Neither option is very palatable, but we are where we are.

    Richard (seriously o/t)

    Did you ever get an explanation for the bounced Betfair cheque?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Radiohead said:

    http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/glastonbury-2017-michael-eavis-what-135650

    In a wide-ranging Q&A on Sunday (June 25) at Speakers Forum in the Green Futures area of Glastonbury Festival Michael Eavis revealed what Jeremy Corbyn said to him before appearing on the Pyramid Stage on Saturday.

    When asked about the Labour leader's appearance, Michael Eavis said: "Wasn't he fantastic?"

    "I said to when are you going to be prime minister? He said: 'In six months'."

    Eavis said he asked Corbyn: "When are you going to get rid of Trident?"

    "He said: 'as soon as I can'."

    As for the last statement, not quite the unexpected revelation of the century!
    Although not really consistent with what was said during the campaign.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited June 2017
    Those replies to Jack Blanchard's tweet are hilarious.

    People have to stop believing in messiahs. Politicians will politician.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,196
    Essexit said:

    stevef said:

    ydoethur said:

    stevef said:

    Chris said:

    Spreadsheet Phil is one of the worst public speakers in the party. He's been around the block but can someone tell me what Grey Phil has done or achieved in any of his ministerial posts? As far as I can tell he's a no talent, no charisma, no hoper.

    The Tories need to hold their nerve and get a decent successor ready for post Brexit to take on Corbyn. Someone young, fresh and dynamic is needed but in two years not now.

    Another two years of Theresa May? Surely electoral suicide.
    Perhaps but replacing May with Hammond now is certain electoral suicide.
    Yes, but it's a quicker death.
    The Tories need to look to the bank benches or junior ranks for a new leader, not to aging mediocrities.
    Why? The ageing mediocrity approach hasn't been a complete disaster for Labour.

    And there is no Tory who approaches Corbyn in either age or mediocrity.
    I think Corbyn is not so much a mediocrity as a fanatic. Hammond blends un-noticed into the wallpaper, Corbyn rabble rouses against the very concept of bourgeois wallpaper. Put Hammond against Corbyn and its not much of a choice, but Corbyn would triumph by default.
    Mr Johnson...by a country mile. Even without my vote!
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,196
    RobD said:

    Radiohead said:

    http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/glastonbury-2017-michael-eavis-what-135650

    In a wide-ranging Q&A on Sunday (June 25) at Speakers Forum in the Green Futures area of Glastonbury Festival Michael Eavis revealed what Jeremy Corbyn said to him before appearing on the Pyramid Stage on Saturday.

    When asked about the Labour leader's appearance, Michael Eavis said: "Wasn't he fantastic?"

    "I said to when are you going to be prime minister? He said: 'In six months'."

    Eavis said he asked Corbyn: "When are you going to get rid of Trident?"

    "He said: 'as soon as I can'."

    As for the last statement, not quite the unexpected revelation of the century!
    Although not really consistent with what was said during the campaign.
    Didn't he say Labour Party policy was Trident friendly, but he wasn't!

    Have I just defended Corbyn???
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    Radiohead said:

    http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/glastonbury-2017-michael-eavis-what-135650

    In a wide-ranging Q&A on Sunday (June 25) at Speakers Forum in the Green Futures area of Glastonbury Festival Michael Eavis revealed what Jeremy Corbyn said to him before appearing on the Pyramid Stage on Saturday.

    When asked about the Labour leader's appearance, Michael Eavis said: "Wasn't he fantastic?"

    "I said to when are you going to be prime minister? He said: 'In six months'."

    Eavis said he asked Corbyn: "When are you going to get rid of Trident?"

    "He said: 'as soon as I can'."

    As for the last statement, not quite the unexpected revelation of the century!
    Although not really consistent with what was said during the campaign.
    Didn't he say Labour Party policy was Trident friendly, but he wasn't!

    Have I just defended Corbyn???
    But doesn't it imply he'll push ahead regardless?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,196
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Radiohead said:

    http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/glastonbury-2017-michael-eavis-what-135650

    In a wide-ranging Q&A on Sunday (June 25) at Speakers Forum in the Green Futures area of Glastonbury Festival Michael Eavis revealed what Jeremy Corbyn said to him before appearing on the Pyramid Stage on Saturday.

    When asked about the Labour leader's appearance, Michael Eavis said: "Wasn't he fantastic?"

    "I said to when are you going to be prime minister? He said: 'In six months'."

    Eavis said he asked Corbyn: "When are you going to get rid of Trident?"

    "He said: 'as soon as I can'."

    As for the last statement, not quite the unexpected revelation of the century!
    Although not really consistent with what was said during the campaign.
    Didn't he say Labour Party policy was Trident friendly, but he wasn't!

    Have I just defended Corbyn???
    But doesn't it imply he'll push ahead regardless?
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Radiohead said:

    http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/glastonbury-2017-michael-eavis-what-135650

    In a wide-ranging Q&A on Sunday (June 25) at Speakers Forum in the Green Futures area of Glastonbury Festival Michael Eavis revealed what Jeremy Corbyn said to him before appearing on the Pyramid Stage on Saturday.

    When asked about the Labour leader's appearance, Michael Eavis said: "Wasn't he fantastic?"

    "I said to when are you going to be prime minister? He said: 'In six months'."

    Eavis said he asked Corbyn: "When are you going to get rid of Trident?"

    "He said: 'as soon as I can'."

    As for the last statement, not quite the unexpected revelation of the century!
    Although not really consistent with what was said during the campaign.
    Didn't he say Labour Party policy was Trident friendly, but he wasn't!

    Have I just defended Corbyn???
    But doesn't it imply he'll push ahead regardless?
    'As soon as possible' doesn't strike me as pushing ahead regardless, besides which Trident will be a mere trifle compared to some of his other plans.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    ruh roh

    @PaulBrandITV: BREAKING: Number of cladding samples failing the fire test has DOUBLED since yesterday to 60 across 25 council areas. #Grenfell

    They said yesterday, EVERY sample tested has failed so far
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Scott_P said:

    ruh roh

    @PaulBrandITV: BREAKING: Number of cladding samples failing the fire test has DOUBLED since yesterday to 60 across 25 council areas. #Grenfell

    They said yesterday, EVERY sample tested has failed so far

    So will it be all 600
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    stevef said:

    Chris said:

    Spreadsheet Phil is one of the worst public speakers in the party. He's been around the block but can someone tell me what Grey Phil has done or achieved in any of his ministerial posts? As far as I can tell he's a no talent, no charisma, no hoper.

    The Tories need to hold their nerve and get a decent successor ready for post Brexit to take on Corbyn. Someone young, fresh and dynamic is needed but in two years not now.

    Another two years of Theresa May? Surely electoral suicide.
    Perhaps but replacing May with Hammond now is certain electoral suicide.
    Yes, but it's a quicker death.
    The Tories need to look to the bank benches or junior ranks for a new leader, not to aging mediocrities.
    Why? The ageing mediocrity approach hasn't been a complete disaster for Labour.

    And there is no Tory who approaches Corbyn in either age or mediocrity.
    David Davis is actually a few months older.
    I was thinking more that Corbyn dates from the day of the dinosaur.
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    So will it be all 600

    Nah, they'll be testing the most suspect first - from documentation they should have a fair idea which are at most risk.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PaulBrandITV: Government has confirmed that this still represents 100% failure rate for tower blocks across England, i.e. 60 tested, 60 failed. #Grenfell
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Cricviz model is horribly broken, they have england at 72% for the win. Total nonsense.

    Yep, alot higher/
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    The costs of this building crisis are going to be huge.

    Even in Camden 3,000 in hotels for 4 weeks at £100 per night is £8.4 million and no one seems to think 4 weeks will be anything like the time required
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    RobD said:

    Radiohead said:

    http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/glastonbury-2017-michael-eavis-what-135650

    In a wide-ranging Q&A on Sunday (June 25) at Speakers Forum in the Green Futures area of Glastonbury Festival Michael Eavis revealed what Jeremy Corbyn said to him before appearing on the Pyramid Stage on Saturday.

    When asked about the Labour leader's appearance, Michael Eavis said: "Wasn't he fantastic?"

    "I said to when are you going to be prime minister? He said: 'In six months'."

    Eavis said he asked Corbyn: "When are you going to get rid of Trident?"

    "He said: 'as soon as I can'."

    As for the last statement, not quite the unexpected revelation of the century!
    Although not really consistent with what was said during the campaign.
    Indeed. But the campaign also taught us the huge cost of being honest and straightforward in a manifesto
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Pulpstar said:

    Cricviz model is horribly broken, they have england at 72% for the win. Total nonsense.

    Yep, alot higher/
    Must be near 100% win surely
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited June 2017

    The costs of this building crisis are going to be huge.

    Even in Camden 3,000 in hotels for 4 weeks at £100 per night is £8.4 million and no one seems to think 4 weeks will be anything like the time required


    Not all will have to be in hotels though; Camden was a special case.

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The costs of this building crisis are going to be huge.

    Even in Camden 3,000 in hotels for 4 weeks at £100 per night is £8.4 million and no one seems to think 4 weeks will be anything like the time required

    There are also 30,000 school buildings to be checked I think
  • Options
    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,783
    Scott_P said:

    ruh roh

    @PaulBrandITV: BREAKING: Number of cladding samples failing the fire test has DOUBLED since yesterday to 60 across 25 council areas. #Grenfell

    They said yesterday, EVERY sample tested has failed so far

    Context please - were these (10 year old?) samples removed from existing tower blocks or brand new samples of the type used? If the former, the test is of little value, except as a measure of longevity in actual use.
  • Options
    IcarusIcarus Posts: 898
    GeoffM said:

    RobD said:

    Radiohead said:

    http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/glastonbury-2017-michael-eavis-what-135650

    In a wide-ranging Q&A on Sunday (June 25) at Speakers Forum in the Green Futures area of Glastonbury Festival Michael Eavis revealed what Jeremy Corbyn said to him before appearing on the Pyramid Stage on Saturday.

    When asked about the Labour leader's appearance, Michael Eavis said: "Wasn't he fantastic?"

    "I said to when are you going to be prime minister? He said: 'In six months'."

    Eavis said he asked Corbyn: "When are you going to get rid of Trident?"

    "He said: 'as soon as I can'."

    As for the last statement, not quite the unexpected revelation of the century!
    Although not really consistent with what was said during the campaign.
    Indeed. But the campaign also taught us the huge cost of being honest and straightforward in a manifesto
    If by that you mean the Tory manifesto then vague and uncosted would be more accurate.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Scott_P said:

    The costs of this building crisis are going to be huge.

    Even in Camden 3,000 in hotels for 4 weeks at £100 per night is £8.4 million and no one seems to think 4 weeks will be anything like the time required

    There are also 30,000 school buildings to be checked I think
    And how many hospitals and high rise offices.
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    BigIanBigIan Posts: 198
    The Betfair market is for next permanent leader. Would a 2-year caretaker arrangement qualify?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    sarissa said:

    Context please - were these (10 year old?) samples removed from existing tower blocks or brand new samples of the type used? If the former, the test is of little value, except as a measure of longevity in actual use.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/879014492004380672
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    calum said:
    Betting opportunity on Sajid Javid for next PM if he is seen to succeed in this national building crisis
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    calum said:
    Betting opportunity on Sajid Javid for next PM if he is seen to succeed in this national building crisis
    I think the odds of that happening are about 10,000 to 1.

    Or put it this way - it's a longer shot than Headingley 1981.
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 898
    Did no one test any panels before installing them?

    We sell flame retardant fabric for curtains and our customers need a certificate of compliance with British Standards.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    I think the odds of a successful prosecution against anyone over the fire tragedy is falling as more buildings are shown to have problems. If these panels were seen as standard practice, then it's much harder to pin the blame on any one individual for using the same on Grenfell.

    But something has gone horribly wrong with building procurement.

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Icarus said:

    Did no one test any panels before installing them?

    We sell flame retardant fabric for curtains and our customers need a certificate of compliance with British Standards.

    Or is the new test more stringent?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298


    I think the odds of a successful prosecution against anyone over the fire tragedy is falling as more buildings are shown to have problems. If these panels were seen as standard practice, then it's much harder to pin the blame on any one individual for using the same on Grenfell.

    But something has gone horribly wrong with building procurement.

    These buildings must date back over successive governments, conservative, coalition and labour
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185

    Radiohead said:

    Jeremy backstage at Glastonbury said he would be PM in six months and scrap Trident

    https://twitter.com/Jack_Blanchard_/status/878998915143671812
    All these little lies are easy to do in opposition, once in power they come back to get you.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    F1: post-race ramble up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/azerbaijan-post-race-analysis-2017.html

    Annoyingly, Ladbrokes chose to reply to my query a few hours before the race and I missed it until now. We'll see how that goes.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298


    I think the odds of a successful prosecution against anyone over the fire tragedy is falling as more buildings are shown to have problems. If these panels were seen as standard practice, then it's much harder to pin the blame on any one individual for using the same on Grenfell.

    But something has gone horribly wrong with building procurement.

    It took the deadful fire in Woolworths in Manchester in 1979 with the loss of ten lives for the law to change with the introduction of the 1988 furniture and furnishings fire safety regulations making fillings and covers from fire safe material.

    Point to note it took 9 years to legislate
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,124
    BigIan said:

    The Betfair market is for next permanent leader. Would a 2-year caretaker arrangement qualify?

    It's all relative. Two years must seem like an eternity to Mrs May just now.
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    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274

    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
    He was very good and loyal - he would make a good interim leader himself
    I think Ken Clarke would be a great PM even if for a short period. But the Tories would never let him be leader.
    But they should do. Ken would wipe the floor with Corbyn.
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    BigIanBigIan Posts: 198
    Chris said:

    BigIan said:

    The Betfair market is for next permanent leader. Would a 2-year caretaker arrangement qualify?

    It's all relative. Two years must seem like an eternity to Mrs May just now.
    For sure, but will they settle up?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Chris said:

    BigIan said:

    The Betfair market is for next permanent leader. Would a 2-year caretaker arrangement qualify?

    It's all relative. Two years must seem like an eternity to Mrs May just now.
    I doubt she forward plans that far. Dealing with everything on her plate at present will be more than enough
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674
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    theakestheakes Posts: 842
    It is ending in tears. Why does she just not resign tomorrow. The world will carry on.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,196
    PeterC said:

    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
    He was very good and loyal - he would make a good interim leader himself
    I think Ken Clarke would be a great PM even if for a short period. But the Tories would never let him be leader.
    But they should do. Ken would wipe the floor with Corbyn.
    ...and better still he would cancel Brexit!
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    theakes said:

    It is ending in tears. Why does she just not resign tomorrow. The world will carry on.

    As I have said before - a bloody difficult woman
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,124
    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Government has confirmed that this still represents 100% failure rate for tower blocks across England, i.e. 60 tested, 60 failed. #Grenfell

    And more than 500 more still to test. Does that mean something like a quarter of a million people could potentially be affected, or is there something wrong with my arithmetic?

    Is it possible to get odds on the government having to requisition buildings for rehousing, I wonder ...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674
    theakes said:

    It is ending in tears. Why does she just not resign tomorrow. The world will carry on.

    As it will if Mrs May doesn't resign tomorrow.....which sees the publication of the UK's EU resident offer....cue lots of special pleading and hard cases....
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    PeterC said:

    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
    He was very good and loyal - he would make a good interim leader himself
    I think Ken Clarke would be a great PM even if for a short period. But the Tories would never let him be leader.
    But they should do. Ken would wipe the floor with Corbyn.
    Corbyn hasn't suddenly become some kind of brilliant Parliamentary orator. I know it's silly season, but there's an outbreak of mass hysteria over a 68 year old, far left manhole cover collector.

    Away from his foaming teenage groupees, he will still be the bumbling, dim-witted idiot he always has been.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    The leader of Camden Council, Georgia Gould is in a high stakes battle at present.

    She is caught between a rock and a hard place and the real reasons for the emergency evacuation need to be published together with the exact fire service reasons why the advice changed in 24 hours from safe to stay to evacuate now and at 8.00pm on a friday night.

    Questions also need to be answered as to when the buildings were previously inspected and when and who issued fire safe certificates
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Jason said:

    PeterC said:

    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
    He was very good and loyal - he would make a good interim leader himself
    I think Ken Clarke would be a great PM even if for a short period. But the Tories would never let him be leader.
    But they should do. Ken would wipe the floor with Corbyn.
    Corbyn hasn't suddenly become some kind of brilliant Parliamentary orator. I know it's silly season, but there's an outbreak of mass hysteria over a 68 year old, far left manhole cover collector.

    Away from his foaming teenage groupees, he will still be the bumbling, dim-witted idiot he always has been.
    Corbyn is now seen more favourably than May among all voters under the age of 65. Bumbling , dim witted , weak and wobbly and idiotic are adjectives better suited to the PM rather than Corbyn .
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.

    I honestly think Corbyn and McDonnell are worse than Trump. In the fortnight since the election they have being coming out crackpot stuff at turbo speed. Bring down the government, break the US blockade of Cuba, scrap Trident, and yet more freebies. I find it hard to believe that people who previously supported Miliband, Brown, and Blair are really on side with these two. Being ahead in the polls is one thing, but do Labour supporters of old really agree with them?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,668

    Jason said:

    PeterC said:

    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
    He was very good and loyal - he would make a good interim leader himself
    I think Ken Clarke would be a great PM even if for a short period. But the Tories would never let him be leader.
    But they should do. Ken would wipe the floor with Corbyn.
    Corbyn hasn't suddenly become some kind of brilliant Parliamentary orator. I know it's silly season, but there's an outbreak of mass hysteria over a 68 year old, far left manhole cover collector.

    Away from his foaming teenage groupees, he will still be the bumbling, dim-witted idiot he always has been.
    Corbyn is now seen more favourably than May among all voters under the age of 65. Bumbling , dim witted , weak and wobbly and idiotic are adjectives better suited to the PM rather than Corbyn .
    Agreed, plus being 'some kind of brilliant Parliamentary orator' is not a pre-requisite for becoming PM... being a good campaigner is more important in getting the job. Doing the job well, now that might be another matter...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Wonder how much coverage we'll see of Corbyn's Trident comments.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    edited June 2017
    F1: top marks to Ladbrokes. They voided my losing bet on Perez, and let me keep the (small) winnings on Bottas/Vettel (to be fair, I did specifically ask in my first e-mail that they void the bets if the odds were really that tight).

    Edited extra bit: actually, 9/10. Full marks would've been given for letting the bets I'd initially made stand. Still, a good response from customer service.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,949
    Jason said:

    PeterC said:



    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.

    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
    He was very good and loyal - he would make a good interim leader himself
    I think Ken Clarke would be a great PM even if for a short period. But the Tories would never let him be leader.
    But they should do. Ken would wipe the floor with Corbyn.
    Corbyn hasn't suddenly become some kind of brilliant Parliamentary orator. I know it's silly season, but there's an outbreak of mass hysteria over a 68 year old, far left manhole cover collector.

    Away from his foaming teenage groupees, he will still be the bumbling, dim-witted idiot he always has been.
    The thing about Corbyn is, it's not who he is, or how competent he is, it's what he represents.

    We've been saying for years now, received wisdom is that UK GEs are becoming more and more presidential, it's about who the leaders are and their perceived competence, e.g. Cameron vs Miliband, etc.

    The trouble is, as I think we're now learning, that only really works in a system where there is a centrist consensus. In other words, when there's not all that much that separates the parties ideologically.

    For the first time in a generation, a general election was fought on two very different competing ideologies. Austerity vs socialism. Hope vs decline. Not May vs Corbyn.

    Yes, people are voting for Corbyn, but in a much greater sense they are voting for what he represents - an end to the neo-liberal consensus which the Tories, the Lib Dems and New Labour all signed up to.

    Corbyn's masterstroke has been to present his 70s-era ideology as something genuinely new and untested. And it's working, for anyone under the age of 40 - and quite a few more besides.

    The next election won't be fought between Corbyn and [Whoever is Tory leader by then], it will be "40 years of neo-liberalism from all the main parties vs kicking the establishment and voting for change".

    People said that Trump was foaming and dim-witted, it didn't stop him from winning.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298

    Jason said:

    PeterC said:

    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
    He was very good and loyal - he would make a good interim leader himself
    I think Ken Clarke would be a great PM even if for a short period. But the Tories would never let him be leader.
    But they should do. Ken would wipe the floor with Corbyn.
    Corbyn hasn't suddenly become some kind of brilliant Parliamentary orator. I know it's silly season, but there's an outbreak of mass hysteria over a 68 year old, far left manhole cover collector.

    Away from his foaming teenage groupees, he will still be the bumbling, dim-witted idiot he always has been.
    Corbyn is now seen more favourably than May among all voters under the age of 65. Bumbling , dim witted , weak and wobbly and idiotic are adjectives better suited to the PM rather than Corbyn .
    Agreed, plus being 'some kind of brilliant Parliamentary orator' is not a pre-requisite for becoming PM... being a good campaigner is more important in getting the job. Doing the job well, now that might be another matter...
    The one thing that is certain the next GE whenever it comes will be fought on very different grounds not least because Corbyn is seen as a possible PM not a no-hoper and labour's economic policies will come under attack from both conservatives and the lib dems and no doubt the IFS
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    isamisam Posts: 40,929
    I find it almost impossible to imagine how anyone over the age of 40 could possibly listen to McDonnell and not want to vomit.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    edited June 2017

    Wonder how much coverage we'll see of Corbyn's Trident comments.

    Frankly, as news goes 'long time member of CND wants to scrap Trident' is not exactly 'man bites dog.' I would be surprised if it was widely publicised and still more surprised if anyone cared much.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Wonder how much coverage we'll see of Corbyn's Trident comments.

    We live in a world where a potential Chancellor can give speeches to actual Stalinists and it's no big deal apparently. So a potential PM ignoring party policy on defence is probably not even worth mentioning.

    Wolfie Smith and Rick for the Young Ones could be running the country quite soon. God help us.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,929
    kyf_100 said:

    Jason said:

    PeterC said:



    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.

    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
    He was very good and loyal - he would make a good interim leader himself
    I think Ken Clarke would be a great PM even if for a short period. But the Tories would never let him be leader.
    But they should do. Ken would wipe the floor with Corbyn.
    Corbyn hasn't suddenly become some kind of brilliant Parliamentary orator. I know it's silly season, but there's an outbreak of mass hysteria over a 68 year old, far left manhole cover collector.

    Away from his foaming teenage groupees, he will still be the bumbling, dim-witted idiot he always has been.

    For the first time in a generation, a general election was fought on two very different competing ideologies. Austerity vs socialism. Hope vs decline. Not May vs Corbyn.

    Yes, people are voting for Corbyn, but in a much greater sense they are voting for what he represents - an end to the neo-liberal consensus which the Tories, the Lib Dems and New Labour all signed up to.

    Corbyn's masterstroke has been to present his 70s-era ideology as something genuinely new and untested. And it's working, for anyone under the age of 40 - and quite a few more besides.

    The next election won't be fought between Corbyn and [Whoever is Tory leader by then], it will be "40 years of neo-liberalism from all the main parties vs kicking the establishment and voting for change".

    People said that Trump was foaming and dim-witted, it didn't stop him from winning.
    When Tony Benn describes his vision for the Labour Party in this interview from 1980, he is describing it today!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hES7WlDLs8
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,668

    Jason said:

    PeterC said:

    Danny565 said:

    Can someone please tell me in what ways Hammond has more electoral appeal than May?

    He probably doesn't. But then from that Times article they aren't planning to go into an election with him as leader anyway. He would be PM for two years and then they'd get some one more electable.

    I think the Conservatives are seriously concerned about May messing up Brexit which really would be electoral suicide for them. The thinking seems to be that Hammond would handle Brexit a lot better than May.
    Ken Clarke this morning on Sophy firmly put down any chance of a leadership contest and endorsed Theresa May
    We'll see what happens.
    He was very good and loyal - he would make a good interim leader himself
    I think Ken Clarke would be a great PM even if for a short period. But the Tories would never let him be leader.
    But they should do. Ken would wipe the floor with Corbyn.
    Corbyn hasn't suddenly become some kind of brilliant Parliamentary orator. I know it's silly season, but there's an outbreak of mass hysteria over a 68 year old, far left manhole cover collector.

    Away from his foaming teenage groupees, he will still be the bumbling, dim-witted idiot he always has been.
    Corbyn is now seen more favourably than May among all voters under the age of 65. Bumbling , dim witted , weak and wobbly and idiotic are adjectives better suited to the PM rather than Corbyn .
    Agreed, plus being 'some kind of brilliant Parliamentary orator' is not a pre-requisite for becoming PM... being a good campaigner is more important in getting the job. Doing the job well, now that might be another matter...
    The one thing that is certain the next GE whenever it comes will be fought on very different grounds not least because Corbyn is seen as a possible PM not a no-hoper and labour's economic policies will come under attack from both conservatives and the lib dems and no doubt the IFS
    I agree with your first point - it will be interesting to see whether being PM in waiting reduces, or galvanises, Jezza's support.

    But as for Labours economic policies coming under attack, that will not be different just a repeat of what we saw this time. And they held up pretty well.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    glw said:

    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.

    I honestly think Corbyn and McDonnell are worse than Trump. In the fortnight since the election they have being coming out crackpot stuff at turbo speed. Bring down the government, break the US blockade of Cuba, scrap Trident, and yet more freebies. I find it hard to believe that people who previously supported Miliband, Brown, and Blair are really on side with these two. Being ahead in the polls is one thing, but do Labour supporters of old really agree with them?
    They scare me more than trump, because the founding fathers of the us put in place lots of roadblocks to a nutter getting his way, which trump has already started to find out about.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,668
    edited June 2017

    Wonder how much coverage we'll see of Corbyn's Trident comments.

    They are not really news are they? He'd get rid of Trident as soon as he can... but unlike TMay he doesn't decide his party's policies alone. As soon as he can might be never.

    Personally, I hope it's quite soon cos it seems a tremendous waste of money to me - we'd never be able to use it independently of the US and so we're just paying them a lot of money to look like we're at the big boys table.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    glw said:

    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.

    I honestly think Corbyn and McDonnell are worse than Trump. In the fortnight since the election they have being coming out crackpot stuff at turbo speed. Bring down the government, break the US blockade of Cuba, scrap Trident, and yet more freebies. I find it hard to believe that people who previously supported Miliband, Brown, and Blair are really on side with these two. Being ahead in the polls is one thing, but do Labour supporters of old really agree with them?
    They scare me more than trump, because the founding fathers of the us put in place lots of roadblocks to a nutter getting his way, which trump has already started to find out about.
    Equally a nutter can be voted out of office in an hour in this country, in the US the process for removing a president is so complicated it's only even been invoked three times.

    Indeed, Corbyn could probably be more easily removed via a confidence motion as PM than he can be as leader of the opposition, bearing in mind he has almost no chance of governing alone.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2017
    Those surprised with corbyn and McDonnell coming out with mad policies after the GE, let's remember in their manifesto they had banning of Driverless trains and dedicatee LGBT anti-smoking policies.

    While places like us push ahead with Driverless cars and trucks, corbyn wants to ban anything like that.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    glw said:

    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.

    I honestly think Corbyn and McDonnell are worse than Trump. In the fortnight since the election they have being coming out crackpot stuff at turbo speed. Bring down the government, break the US blockade of Cuba, scrap Trident, and yet more freebies. I find it hard to believe that people who previously supported Miliband, Brown, and Blair are really on side with these two. Being ahead in the polls is one thing, but do Labour supporters of old really agree with them?
    They scare me more than trump, because the founding fathers of the us put in place lots of roadblocks to a nutter getting his way, which trump has already started to find out about.
    Trouble is if you trash every Labour leader the attacks become obsolete to many.For fucks sake many on here and in the media called Milliband a communist and attacked his father for been a Marxist.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,668
    Yorkcity said:

    glw said:

    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.

    I honestly think Corbyn and McDonnell are worse than Trump. In the fortnight since the election they have being coming out crackpot stuff at turbo speed. Bring down the government, break the US blockade of Cuba, scrap Trident, and yet more freebies. I find it hard to believe that people who previously supported Miliband, Brown, and Blair are really on side with these two. Being ahead in the polls is one thing, but do Labour supporters of old really agree with them?
    They scare me more than trump, because the founding fathers of the us put in place lots of roadblocks to a nutter getting his way, which trump has already started to find out about.
    Trouble is if you trash every Labour leader the attacks become obsolete to many.For fucks sake many on here and in the media called Milliband a communist and attacked his father for been a Marxist.
    +1
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    we'd never be able to use it independently of the US and so we're just paying them a lot of money to look like we're at the big boys table.

    Yes we could. They are built and maintained by the US but they are fully functioning.

    It is true there are very few scenarios I can think of where we would necessarily want to use them and still fewer where the US would not be involved. But your point is simply wrong.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298


    The one thing that is certain the next GE whenever it comes will be fought on very different grounds not least because Corbyn is seen as a possible PM not a no-hoper and labour's economic policies will come under attack from both conservatives and the lib dems and no doubt the IFS

    I agree with your first point - it will be interesting to see whether being PM in waiting reduces, or galvanises, Jezza's support.

    But as for Labours economic policies coming under attack, that will not be different just a repeat of what we saw this time. And they held up pretty well.

    With respect their economic policy passed with no scutiny at all. The IFS utterly condemned it but it was lost in Brexit
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2017
    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.

    I honestly think Corbyn and McDonnell are worse than Trump. In the fortnight since the election they have being coming out crackpot stuff at turbo speed. Bring down the government, break the US blockade of Cuba, scrap Trident, and yet more freebies. I find it hard to believe that people who previously supported Miliband, Brown, and Blair are really on side with these two. Being ahead in the polls is one thing, but do Labour supporters of old really agree with them?
    They scare me more than trump, because the founding fathers of the us put in place lots of roadblocks to a nutter getting his way, which trump has already started to find out about.
    Equally a nutter can be voted out of office in an hour in this country, in the US the process for removing a president is so complicated it's only even been invoked three times.

    Indeed, Corbyn could probably be more easily removed via a confidence motion as PM than he can be as leader of the opposition, bearing in mind he has almost no chance of governing alone.
    Is a Fair point about impeachment, but reality trump has a majority in both houses and can't still get much done at any particular rate, corbyn would with ease.

    Even if trump gets the health care "reform" through it will be tied up in courts for years as was Obama care.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Yorkcity said:

    glw said:

    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.

    I honestly think Corbyn and McDonnell are worse than Trump. In the fortnight since the election they have being coming out crackpot stuff at turbo speed. Bring down the government, break the US blockade of Cuba, scrap Trident, and yet more freebies. I find it hard to believe that people who previously supported Miliband, Brown, and Blair are really on side with these two. Being ahead in the polls is one thing, but do Labour supporters of old really agree with them?
    They scare me more than trump, because the founding fathers of the us put in place lots of roadblocks to a nutter getting his way, which trump has already started to find out about.
    Trouble is if you trash every Labour leader the attacks become obsolete to many.For fucks sake many on here and in the media called Milliband a communist and attacked his father for been a Marxist.
    Can't remember anyone calling Miliband a Communist, certainly not on here. Most of the personal attacks were on his geekishness, which is why the bacon sandwich fiasco had traction.

    He exploited his personal connections and his family to get a job far beyond his capacity, of course, but then so has Corbyn.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.

    I honestly think Corbyn and McDonnell are worse than Trump. In the fortnight since the election they have being coming out crackpot stuff at turbo speed. Bring down the government, break the US blockade of Cuba, scrap Trident, and yet more freebies. I find it hard to believe that people who previously supported Miliband, Brown, and Blair are really on side with these two. Being ahead in the polls is one thing, but do Labour supporters of old really agree with them?
    They scare me more than trump, because the founding fathers of the us put in place lots of roadblocks to a nutter getting his way, which trump has already started to find out about.
    Equally a nutter can be voted out of office in an hour in this country, in the US the process for removing a president is so complicated it's only even been invoked three times.

    Indeed, Corbyn could probably be more easily removed via a confidence motion as PM than he can be as leader of the opposition, bearing in mind he has almost no chance of governing alone.
    Is a Fair point about impeachment, but reality trump has a majority in both houses and can't still get much done at any particular rate, corbyn would with ease.

    Even if trump gets the health care "reform" through it will be tied up in courts for years as was Obama care.
    How?

    If he got into power it would more or less have to be a coalition. There are not sixty-six obvious gains he could make.

    Coalition would severely limit his room to manoeuvre. Ironically, as with Cameron being forced to be more centrist through a coalition so he cannot be as barking mad as he comes across might actually help him at a second election - but unlike Cameron age isn't on his side.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2017
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.

    I honestly think Corbyn and McDonnell are worse than Trump. In the fortnight since the election they have being coming out crackpot stuff at turbo speed. Bring down the government, break the US blockade of Cuba, scrap Trident, and yet more freebies. I find it hard to believe that people who previously supported Miliband, Brown, and Blair are really on side with these two. Being ahead in the polls is one thing, but do Labour supporters of old really agree with them?
    They scare me more than trump, because the founding fathers of the us put in place lots of roadblocks to a nutter getting his way, which trump has already started to find out about.
    Equally a nutter can be voted out of office in an hour in this country, in the US the process for removing a president is so complicated it's only even been invoked three times.

    Indeed, Corbyn could probably be more easily removed via a confidence motion as PM than he can be as leader of the opposition, bearing in mind he has almost no chance of governing alone.
    Is a Fair point about impeachment, but reality trump has a majority in both houses and can't still get much done at any particular rate, corbyn would with ease.

    Even if trump gets the health care "reform" through it will be tied up in courts for years as was Obama care.
    How?

    If he got into power it would more or less have to be a coalition. There are not sixty-six obvious gains he could make.

    Coalition would severely limit his room to manoeuvre. Ironically, as with Cameron being forced to be more centrist through a coalition so he cannot be as barking mad as he comes across might actually help him at a second election - but unlike Cameron age isn't on his side.
    I was presuming he wins a majority. Due to fptp he was only acually a few 1000 being biggest party this time.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    ydoethur said:

    Yorkcity said:

    glw said:

    All that lying by corbyn and McDonnell during the GE, not that the cult care he is still the messiah.

    I honestly think Corbyn and McDonnell are worse than Trump. In the fortnight since the election they have being coming out crackpot stuff at turbo speed. Bring down the government, break the US blockade of Cuba, scrap Trident, and yet more freebies. I find it hard to believe that people who previously supported Miliband, Brown, and Blair are really on side with these two. Being ahead in the polls is one thing, but do Labour supporters of old really agree with them?
    They scare me more than trump, because the founding fathers of the us put in place lots of roadblocks to a nutter getting his way, which trump has already started to find out about.
    Trouble is if you trash every Labour leader the attacks become obsolete to many.For fucks sake many on here and in the media called Milliband a communist and attacked his father for been a Marxist.
    Can't remember anyone calling Miliband a Communist, certainly not on here. Most of the personal attacks were on his geekishness, which is why the bacon sandwich fiasco had traction.

    He exploited his personal connections and his family to get a job far beyond his capacity, of course, but then so has Corbyn.
    Ed Milliband was attacked relentlessly over predatory capitalism .I remember Vince Cable gave him a hearing.As for the geek attacks you reap what you sow.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    I actually don't see anything wrong with banning driverless trains. I wouldn't feel safe going on a train without a driver.

    I actually don't think Labour's manifesto is the big issue. It isn't really that radical. The issue is what Corbyn and McDonnell would like to do that they haven't been quite honest about.

    But all this panicking about a Corbyn/McDonnell government on here is hilarious and ridiculous. The truth is, politics is unpredictable as ever - there are no certainties anymore so it's time to stop talking as if there are. What I would say is that it's unlikely that any party is going to win a comfortable or even a working majority at the next GE. It is likely to be a small majority or being the largest party in a hung parliament, and in that scenario no party gets to do whatever they want lol. So stop with the apocalyptic scenarios.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850



    The one thing that is certain the next GE whenever it comes will be fought on very different grounds not least because Corbyn is seen as a possible PM not a no-hoper and labour's economic policies will come under attack from both conservatives and the lib dems and no doubt the IFS

    I agree with your first point - it will be interesting to see whether being PM in waiting reduces, or galvanises, Jezza's support.

    But as for Labours economic policies coming under attack, that will not be different just a repeat of what we saw this time. And they held up pretty well.

    With respect their economic policy passed with no scutiny at all. The IFS utterly condemned it but it was lost in Brexit

    IMO, it's pointless trying to predict what will happen at the next GE, at this stage.
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