@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
If the government goes for full single market with everything that implies, they should get the LDs and the SNP on board, particularly if they set up a Scottish caucus through Ruth Davidson's group.
That would be toxic for the Lib Dems. They've just campaigned against a stitch-up by politicians on Brexit - they cannot now support a stitch-up on a Brexit in name only.
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Cheers - but not a problem.
May has always struck me as the epitome of mediocrity. There just does not seem to be anything there. I was truly astonished that she was as popular as she was. I could not see it at all. I felt like some Tories must have felt about Tony Blair. The only thing that I liked about May was that she was not Andrea Leadsom!
At least Andrea Leadsom had a smile not like Mrs Glumbuckets....
I hope everyone here votes Lib Dem if the party once again sures up the national situation at large risk to itself, and saves the nation from Corbyn. Country before party
They wouldn't, though. Another Coalition, unless it was the Conservatives propping up the Lib Dems (ie a Lib Dem PM, with all key tenets of the Lib Dem manifesto passed through Parliament, including PR) would see maybe 1 or 2 LD MPs returned next time, with a membership of maybe 20,000. Or zero MPs.
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
The dream detox scenario for them would be if the government conceded a commitment to a second referendum as the price of their support.
People need to wait for what the public inquiry recommends.
But there have been previous inquiries after previous fires, and coroner's reports, and inquiries into similar fires abroad. We don't need to waste a couple of years to be told to do what should have been done already.
I I was knocked for saying it, but still maintain if Farage were a Con MP he would be leader and wipe the floor w Corbyn.
People say he is divisive, but isn't (wasn't?) Jezza?
Corbyn comes across as a thoroughly decent human being despite what the press says
Farage doesnt.
Corbyn doesn't come across that way to many people, he is basking in the glow of upsetting Tories.
It's all hypothetical anyway, but I'd say Farage is the conservative version of Corbyn. He is media friendly, funny, unscripted and genuine. He took Ukip from 3% to 13%, he left and they got 2%. If he was leader and seen to be on the road to success, people would embrace him the way labourites are starting to w Corbo. Shame for the Tories he isn't one of their MPs
Tezza is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Visit the survivors and have Corbynistas yell abuse. Don't visit and be accused of being cold.
So you do the right thing... Which is to visit to the survivors and give them an hour or so of your time...
In a day or two we'll see HMQ visiting the survivors and showing Theresa how its done.
Is HMQ loved and admired in that part of London? Doubt it. But she'll show up at some point anyway.
I have to say the Queen did a good job in Manchester. The real class was Ariane Grande herself with her unforced empathy. Not the shallow stardom you expect.
Reality check. Scotland Elects: Should Sturgeon remain as FM?
Yes 47% No 36%
GE 2010 Labour landslide again in Scotland. SNP narrowly hold their 6 seats.
2011 SNP win a majority of seats at Holyrood just 1 year after being beaten 53-6 in GE. This leads to referendum in which support for independence moves from 30% to 45% during the campaign.
A far from impossible future scenario:
GE sometime before 2021. Major losses for the SNP as the electorate decides between a Labour or Tory government. Unionists complacently celebrate the end of any prospect of independence.
2021 Holyrood A majority of SNP and Green MPs are returned at Holyrood on a mandate for an independence referendum.
Probably will not play out quite that way but my main point is that it is the Holyrood results, not the Westminster results which are the better measure of support for independence.
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Cheers - but not a problem.
May has always struck me as the epitome of mediocrity. There just does not seem to be anything there. I was truly astonished that she was as popular as she was. I could not see it at all. I felt like some Tories must have felt about Tony Blair. The only thing that I liked about May was that she was not Andrea Leadsom!
At least Andrea Leadsom had a smile not like Mrs Glumbuckets....
Andrea is actually quite personable. I expect her to be a good Leader of the House. Her faults lay elsewhere.
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Cheers - but not a problem.
May has always struck me as the epitome of mediocrity. There just does not seem to be anything there. I was truly astonished that she was as popular as she was. I could not see it at all. I felt like some Tories must have felt about Tony Blair. The only thing that I liked about May was that she was not Andrea Leadsom!
At least Andrea Leadsom had a smile not like Mrs Glumbuckets....
Is this a serious comment? You think whether or not May smiles a lot is important?
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Not really, he contrasted her deeply mediocre with Corbyn utter crap, & said she wins every time
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
If the government goes for full single market with everything that implies, they should get the LDs and the SNP on board, particularly if they set up a Scottish caucus through Ruth Davidson's group. They would then have the numbers to get Brexit through with or without the nod from Labour. The main opposition would be on the Tory benches. It could split the party but they are stuck between a rock and a hard Brexit place.
Several of the SCon MSPs and their new MPs were Brexiteers; I'm guessing softy Brexit wasn't what they were campaigning for. Of course if it really is the Ruth Davidson party rather than C&U (northern sub branch), lips will be bitten.
I just don't think she's flexible enough to operate outside her comfort zone.
That is, with her closest and trusted advisors (and no-one else) deciding what she wants to do rather slowly in secret, and with a huge majority to push through whatever she wants without opposition.
She has lost her majority.
She has lost her advisors.
She has no other base in the party.
She has lost her confidence.
She's mismanaged the negotiation with the DUP.
She's mismanaged the fire.
She is making IDS look good.
She can't do the job, and she must go.
Interesting you didn't include crashing Britain on the Brexit rocks. I would forgive all the others if she had been at least honest and competent on that.
If the rumours about DUP talks failing then the QS fails surely? is it possible that Corbyn could cobble together enough support to govern for long? Surely he would fail to get a QS through too, the tories and DUP would not support labour QS so I can only see a Corbyn QS failing, which means immediate GE. Would Tories keep TM for second GE or do they have the mechanism to ditch her quickly and put say Boris in her place for GE?
Corbyn hubris reaches new levels with the European.
Icarus springs to mind ...
If he dances to their tune, a lot of Labour seats in the North and Midlands suddenly look vulnerable, and May wouldn't be daft to call another election.
Of course, that won't happen because the New European is nuts and Corbyn voted Leave.
I I was knocked for saying it, but still maintain if Farage were a Con MP he would be leader and wipe the floor w Corbyn.
People say he is divisive, but isn't (wasn't?) Jezza?
Corbyn comes across as a thoroughly decent human being despite what the press says
Farage doesnt.
Corbyn doesn't come across that way to many people, he is basking in the glow of upsetting Tories.
It's all hypothetical anyway, but I'd say Farage is the conservative version of Corbyn. He is media friendly, funny, unscripted and genuine. He took Ukip from 3% to 13%, he left and they got 2%. If he was leader and seen to be on the road to success, people would embrace him the way labourites are starting to w Corbo. Shame for the Tories he isn't one of their MPs
With Nige in charge TP may well have been an MP...
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
Swift way to lose their Scottish gains.
Well they would only do it if they thought the benefit would outweigh any cost.
I mean propping up the Tories would lose them their Scottish seats.
They'd actually gain more Scottish seats if there was another election this year.
If the rumours about DUP talks failing then the QS fails surely? is it possible that Corbyn could cobble together enough support to govern for long? Surely he would fail to get a QS through too, the tories and DUP would not support labour QS so I can only see a Corbyn QS failing, which means immediate GE. Would Tories keep TM for second GE or do they have the mechanism to ditch her quickly and put say Boris in her place for GE?
Why would the QS fail? I doubt the DUP would vote against it.
If the rumours about DUP talks failing then the QS fails surely? is it possible that Corbyn could cobble together enough support to govern for long? Surely he would fail to get a QS through too, the tories and DUP would not support labour QS so I can only see a Corbyn QS failing, which means immediate GE. Would Tories keep TM for second GE or do they have the mechanism to ditch her quickly and put say Boris in her place for GE?
"As for the delay in revealing the DUP-Tory deal, the Irish say that up to 90% of the agreement is probably finalised but that some of the economic dividends the DUP are seeking from the arrangement are currently being evaluated by the Treasury."
If the rumours about DUP talks failing then the QS fails surely? is it possible that Corbyn could cobble together enough support to govern for long? Surely he would fail to get a QS through too, the tories and DUP would not support labour QS so I can only see a Corbyn QS failing, which means immediate GE. Would Tories keep TM for second GE or do they have the mechanism to ditch her quickly and put say Boris in her place for GE?
Why would the QS fail? I doubt the DUP would vote against it.
I just don't think she's flexible enough to operate outside her comfort zone.
That is, with her closest and trusted advisors (and no-one else) deciding what she wants to do rather slowly in secret, and with a huge majority to push through whatever she wants without opposition.
She has lost her majority.
She has lost her advisors.
She has no other base in the party.
She has lost her confidence.
She's mismanaged the negotiation with the DUP.
She's mismanaged the fire.
She is making IDS look good.
She can't do the job, and she must go.
Interesting you didn't include crashing Britain on the Brexit rocks. I would forgive all the others if she had been at least honest and competent on that.
Why is that 'interesting'? I support Brexit and am ardent Leaver, as you well know.
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Cheers - but not a problem.
May has always struck me as the epitome of mediocrity. There just does not seem to be anything there. I was truly astonished that she was as popular as she was. I could not see it at all. I felt like some Tories must have felt about Tony Blair. The only thing that I liked about May was that she was not Andrea Leadsom!
I have always liked Hammond. He is quiet and dull, but comes across to me as smart, flexible and able to properly think through an issue. We could do with him now, quite frankly. But I guess we will end up with Boris - God help us!!
I gave May the benefit of the doubt for a month until it became clear she wasn't even trying to get a good Brexit deal. Unfortunately it took a further nine months for a substantial part of the population to cotton on.
If the rumours about DUP talks failing then the QS fails surely? is it possible that Corbyn could cobble together enough support to govern for long? Surely he would fail to get a QS through too, the tories and DUP would not support labour QS so I can only see a Corbyn QS failing, which means immediate GE. Would Tories keep TM for second GE or do they have the mechanism to ditch her quickly and put say Boris in her place for GE?
Why would the QS fail? I doubt the DUP would vote against it.
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
Checking to confirm Lib's will abstain on QS I guess.
DUP "Deal" looks DOA?
Why should they?
Because if Con can't get their QS through the government falls and we'll have an immediate election (well immediately after it becomes Jezza can't get a QS through either) which you would assume the LIb-Dems will want to avoid given we only had one last week.
Why would they want to avoid it? @Pulpstar has already pointed out that they would likely make several gains.
P.S. Was it only last week?! Seems like an eternity ago
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
I just don't think she's flexible enough to operate outside her comfort zone.
That is, with her closest and trusted advisors (and no-one else) deciding what she wants to do rather slowly in secret, and with a huge majority to push through whatever she wants without opposition.
She has lost her majority.
She has lost her advisors.
She has no other base in the party.
She has lost her confidence.
She's mismanaged the negotiation with the DUP.
She's mismanaged the fire.
She is making IDS look good.
She can't do the job, and she must go.
Interesting you didn't include crashing Britain on the Brexit rocks. I would forgive all the others if she had been at least honest and competent on that.
Why is that 'interesting'? I support Brexit and am ardent Leaver, as you well know.
I'm not a ratting Remaniac obsessive.
You calling me a rat? I would expect an "ardent Leaver" to be interested in the how and in a successful outcome.
"As for the delay in revealing the DUP-Tory deal, the Irish say that up to 90% of the agreement is probably finalised but that some of the economic dividends the DUP are seeking from the arrangement are currently being evaluated by the Treasury."
If the rumours about DUP talks failing then the QS fails surely? is it possible that Corbyn could cobble together enough support to govern for long? Surely he would fail to get a QS through too, the tories and DUP would not support labour QS so I can only see a Corbyn QS failing, which means immediate GE. Would Tories keep TM for second GE or do they have the mechanism to ditch her quickly and put say Boris in her place for GE?
Why would the QS fail? I doubt the DUP would vote against it.
why would the DUP support IRA supporting Corbyn?
I mean why would the Tory QS fail?
It wouldn't. The worse that would happen would be that the DUP abstains.
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Not really, he contrasted her deeply mediocre with Corbyn utter crap, & said she wins every time
She did beat him. She wouldn't now, though.
Haha! Fancy splitting hairs like that when you predicted a majority!!
See May has fallen 13 points to 29% as most favourable PM. At this rate she will dissapear out of sight. Appears not to have spoken with residents at Grenfell , another faux pas. She has not got the common touch at all, why does she hang on, she is harming the party more than staying. Would not suprise me to see a poll with Labour abour 10 points ahead at least. .
I I was knocked for saying it, but still maintain if Farage were a Con MP he would be leader and wipe the floor w Corbyn.
People say he is divisive, but isn't (wasn't?) Jezza?
Corbyn comes across as a thoroughly decent human being despite what the press says
Farage doesnt.
Corbyn doesn't come across that way to many people, he is basking in the glow of upsetting Tories.
It's all hypothetical anyway, but I'd say Farage is the conservative version of Corbyn. He is media friendly, funny, unscripted and genuine. He took Ukip from 3% to 13%, he left and they got 2%. If he was leader and seen to be on the road to success, people would embrace him the way labourites are starting to w Corbo. Shame for the Tories he isn't one of their MPs
With Nige in charge TP may well have been an MP...
Yeah he pretty much fits the check list Tories need to best Jezza
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Not really, he contrasted her deeply mediocre with Corbyn utter crap, & said she wins every time
She did beat him. She wouldn't now, though.
Haha! Fancy splitting hairs like that when you predicted a majority!!
If the rumours about DUP talks failing then the QS fails surely? is it possible that Corbyn could cobble together enough support to govern for long? Surely he would fail to get a QS through too, the tories and DUP would not support labour QS so I can only see a Corbyn QS failing, which means immediate GE. Would Tories keep TM for second GE or do they have the mechanism to ditch her quickly and put say Boris in her place for GE?
Queenie would only send for JC as PM if he had a plan for getting the QS through, and it would have to be a solid one, otherwise we've got real problems.
I I was knocked for saying it, but still maintain if Farage were a Con MP he would be leader and wipe the floor w Corbyn.
People say he is divisive, but isn't (wasn't?) Jezza?
Corbyn comes across as a thoroughly decent human being despite what the press says
Farage doesnt.
Corbyn doesn't come across that way to many people, he is basking in the glow of upsetting Tories.
It's all hypothetical anyway, but I'd say Farage is the conservative version of Corbyn. He is media friendly, funny, unscripted and genuine. He took Ukip from 3% to 13%, he left and they got 2%. If he was leader and seen to be on the road to success, people would embrace him the way labourites are starting to w Corbo. Shame for the Tories he isn't one of their MPs
With Nige in charge TP may well have been an MP...
Yeah he pretty much fits the check list Tories need to best Jezza
"As for the delay in revealing the DUP-Tory deal, the Irish say that up to 90% of the agreement is probably finalised but that some of the economic dividends the DUP are seeking from the arrangement are currently being evaluated by the Treasury."
Hammond says no.
The old "90% of the deal is finalised" schtick. I have them all the time at work. The client loves the first nine pages of the proposal, but not so much the last one, which contains details of the fee.
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Not really, he contrasted her deeply mediocre with Corbyn utter crap, & said she wins every time
She did beat him. She wouldn't now, though.
Haha! Fancy splitting hairs like that when you predicted a majority!!
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
Swift way to lose their Scottish gains.
Explain please
I assume the implication is that because their Scottish vote fell off a cliff after the coalition in 2010, further damage would be done if any further signs of collaboration were evident. Of course the SLDs were already down to a rump, and in fact despite their Scottish gains actually lost 40k votes (c.20%) this time round.
I just don't think she's flexible enough to operate outside her comfort zone.
That is, with her closest and trusted advisors (and no-one else) deciding what she wants to do rather slowly in secret, and with a huge majority to push through whatever she wants without opposition.
She has lost her majority.
She has lost her advisors.
She has no other base in the party.
She has lost her confidence.
She's mismanaged the negotiation with the DUP.
She's mismanaged the fire.
She is making IDS look good.
She can't do the job, and she must go.
Interesting you didn't include crashing Britain on the Brexit rocks. I would forgive all the others if she had been at least honest and competent on that.
Why is that 'interesting'? I support Brexit and am ardent Leaver, as you well know.
I'm not a ratting Remaniac obsessive.
But I did personalise my response, which is unfair. Nobody has to justify their opinions to random internet strangers, like myself.
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Not really, he contrasted her deeply mediocre with Corbyn utter crap, & said she wins every time
She did beat him. She wouldn't now, though.
Haha! Fancy splitting hairs like that when you predicted a majority!!
OK
Didn't you Joff? If not I take it back
Of course I did - I wrote an article about it that was published on here on Sunday. I merely observed in my previous comment that May did still beat Corbyn.
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
Swift way to lose their Scottish gains.
Well they would only do it if they thought the benefit would outweigh any cost.
I mean propping up the Tories would lose them their Scottish seats.
They'd actually gain more Scottish seats if there was another election this year.
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Not really, he contrasted her deeply mediocre with Corbyn utter crap, & said she wins every time
She did beat him. She wouldn't now, though.
Haha! Fancy splitting hairs like that when you predicted a majority!!
OK
Didn't you Joff? If not I take it back
Of course I did - I wrote an article about it that was published on here on Sunday. I merely observed in my previous comment that May did still beat Corbyn.
Ok, you contrasted her deeply mediocre with his utter crap and said she wins a majority. Fair?
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
Swift way to lose their Scottish gains.
Well they would only do it if they thought the benefit would outweigh any cost.
I mean propping up the Tories would lose them their Scottish seats.
They'd actually gain more Scottish seats if there was another election this year.
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
Swift way to lose their Scottish gains.
Well they would only do it if they thought the benefit would outweigh any cost.
I mean propping up the Tories would lose them their Scottish seats.
They'd actually gain more Scottish seats if there was another election this year.
I thought they put country before party
Clegg did that in 2010. Look how it turned out.
Clegg didn't get enough for his co-op. Well he got an AV referendeum.
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Cheers - but not a problem.
May has always struck me as the epitome of mediocrity. There just does not seem to be anything there. I was truly astonished that she was as popular as she was. I could not see it at all. I felt like some Tories must have felt about Tony Blair. The only thing that I liked about May was that she was not Andrea Leadsom!
At least Andrea Leadsom had a smile not like Mrs Glumbuckets....
Is this a serious comment? You think whether or not May smiles a lot is important?
Partly yes.
Of course policy and competence are important (both areas of which Theresa May has been found lacking) but being able to put on a smile and "turn it on" is also important in this modern political era (it probably shouldn't be important but it is)
People want to be inspired by their politicians not dragged down and depressed by them....
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Not really, he contrasted her deeply mediocre with Corbyn utter crap, & said she wins every time
She did beat him. She wouldn't now, though.
Haha! Fancy splitting hairs like that when you predicted a majority!!
OK
Didn't you Joff? If not I take it back
Of course I did - I wrote an article about it that was published on here on Sunday. I merely observed in my previous comment that May did still beat Corbyn.
Ok, you contrasted her deeply mediocre with his utter crap and said she wins a majority. Fair?
Absolutely spot on. I was totally incorrect about that. The only way I could have been more wrong is if Labour had won more seats and votes than the Tories.
"As for the delay in revealing the DUP-Tory deal, the Irish say that up to 90% of the agreement is probably finalised but that some of the economic dividends the DUP are seeking from the arrangement are currently being evaluated by the Treasury."
Hammond says no.
The old "90% of the deal is finalised" schtick. I have them all the time at work. The client loves the first nine pages of the proposal, but not so much the last one, which contains details of the fee.
I started putting the fee on the first page. It saved a lot of hot air and got rid of all the time wasters. Those who were worth the effort turned to page 2...
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Not really, he contrasted her deeply mediocre with Corbyn utter crap, & said she wins every time
She did beat him. She wouldn't now, though.
Haha! Fancy splitting hairs like that when you predicted a majority!!
OK
Didn't you Joff? If not I take it back
Of course I did - I wrote an article about it that was published on here on Sunday. I merely observed in my previous comment that May did still beat Corbyn.
Actually with the exception of losing the majority Joff got just about everything spot on.
May is deeply mediocre - check Corbyn is even worse - check May will beat Corbyn at the election - check.
The fact that the numbers tipped over into NOM shouldn't hide that fact that in terms of basic positions he got everything right even when he wished it would be otherwise.
It is one of the reasons this site is worth frequenting. With a few exceptions, people say what they think is the truth even if it is not what they wish it to be.
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
Swift way to lose their Scottish gains.
Well they would only do it if they thought the benefit would outweigh any cost.
I mean propping up the Tories would lose them their Scottish seats.
They'd actually gain more Scottish seats if there was another election this year.
I thought they put country before party
Clegg did that in 2010. Look how it turned out.
Osborne cunningly shafted the LDs in GE 2015- if he hadn't been so diligent in trying to wipe them out there'd have been no EU ref 2016. He really can't escape his share of the responsibility for where we are today even perched smugly from his new cosy berth.
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
Swift way to lose their Scottish gains.
Well they would only do it if they thought the benefit would outweigh any cost.
I mean propping up the Tories would lose them their Scottish seats.
They'd actually gain more Scottish seats if there was another election this year.
I thought they put country before party
Clegg did that in 2010. Look how it turned out.
Clegg didn't get enough for his co-op. Well he got an AV referendeum.
he also got re-elected in 2015 and sympathy in 2017 - what more do you want?
@WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
The chief impediment may have been removed last night.
Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
Swift way to lose their Scottish gains.
Explain please
I assume the implication is that because their Scottish vote fell off a cliff after the coalition in 2010, further damage would be done if any further signs of collaboration were evident. Of course the SLDs were already down to a rump, and in fact despite their Scottish gains actually lost 40k votes (c.20%) this time round.
You're getting old. SCon are all the rage in Scotland, it's the SNP who are looking increasingly toxic.
I hope it was not the Hotpoint tumble dryer that started the fire.The company did not withdraw them even though there was a fault causing many fires around the country .The company sent an engineer to mend the fault .However it took months years to get to all the machines.The company said to unplug them obviously not an ideal situation for a hard pressed families.I believe the fire service were not happy with the situation.My daughter with a disabled child had such a tumble dryer , I removed it and put it in our garage until it could be repaired.I then bought her a new Bosh one.I believe this example shows that the authorities will take risks over life's rather than confront business responsibility.
The DUP won't vote for IRA-supporting Corbyn. We know that, how? The DUP has worked with the IRA-supporting Sinn Fein in Stormont. Labour wants to invest so meeting DUP demands for spending in Northern Ireland won't be a problem (and tbh I can't really see how the Conservative talks can founder over Barnett).
I'd say a bigger question is whether the LibDems would abstain or vote against both main parties' Queen's speeches, and it is rumoured there are talks. Otherwise, Jezza is set to become our least likely prime minister since, well, since Tezza.
If the rumours about DUP talks failing then the QS fails surely? is it possible that Corbyn could cobble together enough support to govern for long? Surely he would fail to get a QS through too, the tories and DUP would not support labour QS so I can only see a Corbyn QS failing, which means immediate GE. Would Tories keep TM for second GE or do they have the mechanism to ditch her quickly and put say Boris in her place for GE?
Basic numbers
318 314 10 642
Tories Everyone else minus DUP DUP Available seats minus Sinn Fein
Without the explicit opposition of the DUP the Tories have a majority Without the explicit support of the Rebel Alliance does not have a majority
Odds on another GE this year are unchanged since last night at about 3-1.
Why the hysteria?
Because May has blown her majority in a pointless election, destroyed her personal ratings in the process (see today's YouGove data) her deal with the DUP look dead in the water and she's even managed to **** up her response to a national disaster.
Otherwise everything is fine. We're all fine now. How are you?
What an absurd waste of time this is! London's burning, there's no government, and our elected representatives are engaging in antediluvian nonsense at £75k+ pa.
I would set up Boris as the 'other' London Mayor - let him have all the practical ideas to solve this crisis with government support. And the government can set a building products test center.
I just don't think she's flexible enough to operate outside her comfort zone.
That is, with her closest and trusted advisors (and no-one else) deciding what she wants to do rather slowly in secret, and with a huge majority to push through whatever she wants without opposition.
She has lost her majority.
She has lost her advisors.
She has no other base in the party.
She has lost her confidence.
She's mismanaged the negotiation with the DUP.
She's mismanaged the fire.
She is making IDS look good.
She can't do the job, and she must go.
Interesting you didn't include crashing Britain on the Brexit rocks. I would forgive all the others if she had been at least honest and competent on that.
Why is that 'interesting'? I support Brexit and am ardent Leaver, as you well know.
I'm not a ratting Remaniac obsessive.
Surely Leavers want a good Brexit rather than a car crash one?
May has been in power for almost a year, yet appears to have no grasp of how to achieve a successful Brexit, whether its soft or hard. Indeed her main interest seems to have been grammar schools and energy price caps.
Her purge of the Cameroons should have been the first sign that her priorities weren't exactly right.
@IanDunt: Brexit dept confirms talks will start in Brussels on Monday, even though there's no government, no plan, no aims and no capacity to deliver.
@IanDunt: Brexit will go down with Suez as one of those words which sends shivers up the spine of future British government ministers.
@IanDunt: Hi! We represent a govt which doesn't exist, sent to secure a policy we do not understand and which we would anyway be unable to implement.
They might as well agree the bill. €60 billion whatever. Gets it out of the way then if and when we ever get a functioning government, it could move onto interesting things like do we want international trade, to be able to fly to other countries etc etc.
At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.
I owe you an apology.
For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.
Turns out you were right.
Not really, he contrasted her deeply mediocre with Corbyn utter crap, & said she wins every time
She did beat him. She wouldn't now, though.
Haha! Fancy splitting hairs like that when you predicted a majority!!
OK
Didn't you Joff? If not I take it back
Of course I did - I wrote an article about it that was published on here on Sunday. I merely observed in my previous comment that May did still beat Corbyn.
Ok, you contrasted her deeply mediocre with his utter crap and said she wins a majority. Fair?
Absolutely spot on. I was totally incorrect about that. The only way I could have been more wrong is if Labour had won more seats and votes than the Tories.
Settle down Alastair. How is she the "party leader who unambiguously did worst"? Unlike May she has won 4 successive election victories, and is far and away the most popular party leader in Scotland. Support for independence is still at 43%. Your article may pass muster as truthful comment in London but it comes across as wishful thinking viewed from Scotland.
Comments
At least Andrea Leadsom had a smile not like Mrs Glumbuckets....
Another Coalition, unless it was the Conservatives propping up the Lib Dems (ie a Lib Dem PM, with all key tenets of the Lib Dem manifesto passed through Parliament, including PR) would see maybe 1 or 2 LD MPs returned next time, with a membership of maybe 20,000. Or zero MPs.
So, Jeremy Hunt,
Is he worth a teensy punt?
No, he is c**t.
It's all hypothetical anyway, but I'd say Farage is the conservative version of Corbyn. He is media friendly, funny, unscripted and genuine. He took Ukip from 3% to 13%, he left and they got 2%. If he was leader and seen to be on the road to success, people would embrace him the way labourites are starting to w Corbo. Shame for the Tories he isn't one of their MPs
Yes 47% No 36%
GE 2010 Labour landslide again in Scotland. SNP narrowly hold their 6 seats.
2011 SNP win a majority of seats at Holyrood just 1 year after being beaten 53-6 in GE.
This leads to referendum in which support for independence moves from 30% to 45% during the campaign.
A far from impossible future scenario:
GE sometime before 2021. Major losses for the SNP as the electorate decides between a Labour or Tory government. Unionists complacently celebrate the end of any prospect of independence.
2021 Holyrood A majority of SNP and Green MPs are returned at Holyrood on a mandate for an independence referendum.
Probably will not play out quite that way but my main point is that it is the Holyrood results, not the Westminster results which are the better measure of support for independence.
Icarus springs to mind ...
"Thoroughly decent" my a**e
Of course, that won't happen because the New European is nuts and Corbyn voted Leave.
They'd actually gain more Scottish seats if there was another election this year.
Hammond says no.
I'm not a ratting Remaniac obsessive.
It is in the national interest for her to step down as soon as possible. Let's just have Hammond as PM and be done with it.
Also, hope that the LDs are meeting with the government. If they can push a more Softer Brexit, that would be brilliant!
P.S. Was it only last week?! Seems like an eternity ago
Cool heads are required.
.
I apologise.
Of course policy and competence are important (both areas of which Theresa May has been found lacking) but being able to put on a smile and "turn it on" is also important in this modern political era (it probably shouldn't be important but it is)
People want to be inspired by their politicians not dragged down and depressed by them....
She's finished - The election disaster is not recoverable. The only question is when she goes and how much damage she does in the interim.
May is deeply mediocre - check
Corbyn is even worse - check
May will beat Corbyn at the election - check.
The fact that the numbers tipped over into NOM shouldn't hide that fact that in terms of basic positions he got everything right even when he wished it would be otherwise.
It is one of the reasons this site is worth frequenting. With a few exceptions, people say what they think is the truth even if it is not what they wish it to be.
Odds on another GE this year are unchanged since last night at about 3-1.
Why the hysteria?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybflFyk5Tf4
I'd say a bigger question is whether the LibDems would abstain or vote against both main parties' Queen's speeches, and it is rumoured there are talks. Otherwise, Jezza is set to become our least likely prime minister since, well, since Tezza.
@IanDunt: Brexit will go down with Suez as one of those words which sends shivers up the spine of future British government ministers.
@IanDunt: Hi! We represent a govt which doesn't exist, sent to secure a policy we do not understand and which we would anyway be unable to implement.
318
314
10
642
Tories
Everyone else minus DUP
DUP
Available seats minus Sinn Fein
Without the explicit opposition of the DUP the Tories have a majority
Without the explicit support of the Rebel Alliance does not have a majority
Otherwise everything is fine. We're all fine now. How are you?
NEW THREAD
Surely Leavers want a good Brexit rather than a car crash one?
May has been in power for almost a year, yet appears to have no grasp of how to achieve a successful Brexit, whether its soft or hard. Indeed her main interest seems to have been grammar schools and energy price caps.
Her purge of the Cameroons should have been the first sign that her priorities weren't exactly right.