@PhilipHammondUK: In view of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, I have withdrawn from giving the Mansion House speech tonight. My thoughts are with local community.
@PhilipHammondUK: In view of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, I have withdrawn from giving the Mansion House speech tonight. My thoughts are with local community.
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
It's clearly possible - had they run a decent campaign this election, they'd have won easily.
How do you reach that second election though? It just looks cynical to call one without a specific trigger event, and despite the polls there's clearly election fatigue out there.
It's right to ask questions, but we need investigations, not lynch mobs.
I expect we will get a full blown 'judge-led' inquiry into this affair.
The thing is, fuel.
What if the fire was caused by flammable building materials, used to meet green energy efficiency targets?
I at hospitals.
Likewise better?
There are areas of differentiation between parties but the quality of the NHS and building safety aren't among them.
It'sin.
So he has no better ideas but is complaining anyway?
He leader.
I smell hubris.
How many million votes did the Blue Meanies win, remind me, last week?
Hubris is advantage.
As I've posted several times, having just recovered from a bout of hubris I'm in a tremendous position to call it out when I see it. All the warning signs are there:
I have been VERY circumspect since last Thursday night. I'm beginning to wonder if the social media age makes government nigh on impossible.
To quote myself: "I have no faith in the ability of a Corbyn-led government to provide any long-term solutions to the problems that the UK has." Not sure how that is hubristic.
You might have no faith but 40% of voters are starting to think it might be worth a punt.As the lot currently in charge have no vision of their own , just saying the other lot are crap is loosing it's effect after 7 years.
I totally agree. Corbyn has tapped into a quiet rage that many millions of people across the country feel, They, quite rightly, see a system that is not working for them and a society in which they have no real stake. Corbyn articulates that and speaks for them. I totally underestimated him and his appeal. But I still don't agree with his solutions!
Are you saying the Tories have reversed what Labour did to improve the country between 1997 and 2010, or that nothing much was achieved between 1997 and 2010 in the first place? I'm just trying to understand how things have gone so wrong in the last few years, as you understand it.
@PhilipHammondUK: In view of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, I have withdrawn from giving the Mansion House speech tonight. My thoughts are with local community.
How odd.
Can only assume they're about to find out /announce the true scale of it - 17 dead so far but likely huge death toll.
"Theresa May was photographed on a long lens talking to senior figures from the emergency services. She was criticised for not meeting residents, whereas Corbyn was seen chatting to residents and volunteers."
Clearly May isn't going looking for votes in the future.
@PhilipHammondUK: In view of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, I have withdrawn from giving the Mansion House speech tonight. My thoughts are with local community.
How odd.
Agreed. Perhaps can not agree contents of speech with No 10?
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
It's clearly possible - had they run a decent campaign this election, they'd have won easily.
How do you reach that second election though? It just looks cynical to call one without a specific trigger event, and despite the polls there's clearly election fatigue out there.
The polls suggest no Tory leader would significantly increase their voteshare or seats so until they do the Tories will not call another election and even when they do it is most likely to be based on holding their 2017 voteshare not increasing it significantly
Interesting. It appears that project 'Revive Theresa' is already under way. As we know, Dacre is besotted with her, so no surprise that he should be at its forefront. In order to shift the blame from Theresa, I predict that the following groups will be singled out:
Remainers and those Leavers insufficiently supportive of the absolute hardest of Brexits.
The Cameron old order - Crosby, Osborne etc.
The feckless youth.
The question is, how many Tories will swallow it? I suspect quite a lot.
I can feel myself slipping into the re-leaver column...
What column were you in before?
Oh I don't know, hard remain for a bit I think. IF there is one thing I can't stand it is plans being changed, though I do think we'll be better off in the EU. I have internal irreconcilable differences of opinion I'm afraid.
EEA is stalemate. It probably won't actually work for us. The reason for going for it is that we had a vote which rejected the best option of staying in the EU. Democracy has to be respected so then you look at least bad alternatives to the one that has been rejected.
The problem with full membership is that a democratic decision was taken to reject it. It can only be readopted by another democratic decision that explicitly admits we made a mistake.
Everything else is a car crash.
EEA is what it has to be IMO. It does leave open the possibility of moving back to the EU later.
I agree. Though I want EEA as I think the best way of achieving full and total Brexit is to do it very very slowly, causing the minimum fuss and damage, by taking little baby steps. It took us forty years to get horribly enmeshed in the EU, it may take the same to fully leave. So be it.
The point is, you and I agree on the next step. EEA. Someone just has to tell the government that this is what Britain wants. Let TMay do it, take the flak, then resign, and we have a new election.
Another important advantage of EEA and Single Market membership is that it presents an obstacle to the maddest of Corbyn's socialist plans.
And now I must do some work, like the evil Tory capitalist I am.
Hold out an olive branch to the Lib Dems, it was Farron that ruled out a coalition so the new leader need not be tainted with a broken promise.
The Lib Dems then play a role in negotiating an EEA route, the DUP may abstain but will not vote with Corbyn, job done.
@PhilipHammondUK: In view of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, I have withdrawn from giving the Mansion House speech tonight. My thoughts are with local community.
How odd.
Agreed. Perhaps can not agree contents of speech with No 10?
The DUP want a blank cheque - The Treasury wont give them one. Impasse.
Just as Osborne was peeved about being sacked by May, looks as if Hammond hasn't forgiven her for telling him he was going during the election.
Perhaps he should be reading some of Geoffrey Howe and Nigel(la) Lawson's old speeches.
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
@PhilipHammondUK: In view of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, I have withdrawn from giving the Mansion House speech tonight. My thoughts are with local community.
It's right to ask questions, but we need investigations, not lynch mobs.
I expect we will get a full blown 'judge-led' inquiry into this affair.
The thing is, fuel.
What if the fire was caused by flammable building materials, used to meet green energy efficiency targets?
I at hospitals.
Likewise better?
There are areas of differentiation between parties but the quality of the NHS and building safety aren't among them.
It'sin.
So he has no better ideas but is complaining anyway?
He leader.
I smell hubris.
How many million votes did the Blue Meanies win, remind me, last week?
Hubris is advantage.
As I've posted several times, having just recovered from a bout of hubris I'm in a tremendous position to call it out when I see it. All the warning signs are there:
I have been VERY circumspect since last Thursday night. I'm beginning to wonder if the social media age makes government nigh on impossible.
To quote myself: "I have no faith in the ability of a Corbyn-led government to provide any long-term solutions to the problems that the UK has." Not sure how that is hubristic.
You might have no faith but 40% of voters are starting to think it might be worth a punt.As the lot currently in charge have no vision of their own , just saying the other lot are crap is loosing it's effect after 7 years.
I solutions!
Are you saying the Tories have reversed what Labour did to improve the country between 1997 and 2010, or that nothing much was achieved between 1997 and 2010 in the first place? I'm just trying to understand how things have gone so wrong in the last few years, as you understand it.
I am saying that more and more people feel they do not have a stake in the society that has developed in this country over the last 40 years under both parties - and that this has accelerated since the crash. The challenge now for our political parties is to face up to this and find solutions.
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
I agree. But you do not get soft Brexit with Boris, Davis and Gove at the top of your ticket.
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
I agree. But you do not get soft Brexit with Boris, Davis and Gove at the top of your ticket.
Labourites calling for Hammond is a clear sign he's not the man we need.
They know Labour could smash a Hammond led Con party.
Interesting. It appears that project 'Revive Theresa' is already under way. As we know, Dacre is besotted with her, so no surprise that he should be at its forefront. In order to shift the blame from Theresa, I predict that the following groups will be singled out:
Remainers and those Leavers insufficiently supportive of the absolute hardest of Brexits.
The Cameron old order - Crosby, Osborne etc.
The feckless youth.
The question is, how many Tories will swallow it? I suspect quite a lot.
I can't see the PCP swallowing it - she poses a direct threat to their jobs. But many other Tories and brexiteers generally maybe. Could see the beginnings of a divide between the Tory MPs and the Tory media. Beginnings of a civil war possible if so.
After May took over we all thought that the result had confounded expectations, unifying the Tories and dividing Labour. It now seems we may be heading for a reversal on that front.
I suspect that we have seen peak SCon . Their vote will fall in the next few years as the May government loses popularity . Ruth will not be able to ring fence the Scottish Cons from this as the parliamentary arithmetic means they will be forced to support the government even where they do not agree with what they are voting for . The future is more promising for Scottish Labour and possibly the Scottish Lib Dems especially with Jo Swinson as leader .
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
I agree. But you do not get soft Brexit with Boris, Davis and Gove at the top of your ticket.
No but they could still have cabinet posts and Boris is flexible I think
I suspect that we have seen peak SCon . Their vote will fall in the next few years as the May government loses popularity . Ruth will not be able to ring fence the Scottish Cons from this as the parliamentary arithmetic means they will be forced to support the government even where they do not agree with what they are voting for . The future is more promising for Scottish Labour and possibly the Scottish Lib Dems especially with Jo Swinson as leader .
Peak SCon will come 2 years into the next Labour Westminster gov.
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
I agree. But you do not get soft Brexit with Boris, Davis and Gove at the top of your ticket.
'Labourites calling for Hammond is a clear sign he's not the man we need.
They know Labour could smash a Hammond led Con party.'
I am no Labourite but a Tory member and I would happily back Hammond in a few years, after all if Major beat Kinnock no reason Hammond could not beat Corbyn
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
I agree. But you do not get soft Brexit with Boris, Davis and Gove at the top of your ticket.
Labourites calling for Hammond is a clear sign he's not the man we need.
They know Labour could smash a Hammond led Con party.
I am no Labouite but a Tory member and I would happily back Hammond in a few years, after all if Major beat Kinnock no reason Hammond could not beat Corbyn
Why ? His disastrous budget was the starting gun for the GE meltdown.
It's strange that the Mansion House speech was cancelled. I wonder if it contained a lot of anti-London bile - blaming its residents for Brexit treachery and Corbyn's rise? Perhaps Phil was ordered to include that by Dacre and Nick Timothy, as part of the process of shifting the blame from Theresa, but Phil refused on the grounds of taste.
So the public still want Brexit they just can't agree on what government they want to do it?
It's ironic that the "I support Britain leaving the EU" group (at 44%) is smaller than the sum of those who don't support leaving the EU (26+21), but a majority of the latter reluctantly think we should do it because it won the vote.
Are you saying the Tories have reversed what Labour did to improve the country between 1997 and 2010, or that nothing much was achieved between 1997 and 2010 in the first place? I'm just trying to understand how things have gone so wrong in the last few years, as you understand it.
That is easy, nothing much was achieved. Vast sums of money were squandered and we were mortgaged out to the PPP firms. Thanks Tony and Gordon.
Interesting. It appears that project 'Revive Theresa' is already under way. As we know, Dacre is besotted with her, so no surprise that he should be at its forefront. In order to shift the blame from Theresa, I predict that the following groups will be singled out:
Remainers and those Leavers insufficiently supportive of the absolute hardest of Brexits.
The Cameron old order - Crosby, Osborne etc.
The feckless youth.
The question is, how many Tories will swallow it? I suspect quite a lot.
"Sir" Lynton was crap at his job and deserves the criticism he's thus far avoided.
Dacre will jump ship from May as soon as a viable hard brexiteer emerges to challenge.
The mail is in a holding pattern. Hence the Diana front pages.
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
I agree. But you do not get soft Brexit with Boris, Davis and Gove at the top of your ticket.
Labourites calling for Hammond is a clear sign he's not the man we need.
They know Labour could smash a Hammond led Con party.
I am no Labouite but a Tory member and I would happily back Hammond in a few years, after all if Major beat Kinnock no reason Hammond could not beat Corbyn
Why ? His disastrous budget was the starting gun for the GE meltdown.
Then went AWOL during the GE.
Actually his National Insurance rise barely touched the Tory poll rating, it was Nick Timothy's 'dementia tax which cost the Tories votes
So the public still want Brexit they just can't agree on what government they want to do it?
It's ironic that the "I support Britain leaving the EU" group (at 44%) is smaller than the sum of those who don't support leaving the EU (26+21), but a majority of the latter reluctantly think we should do it because it won the vote.
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
I agree. But you do not get soft Brexit with Boris, Davis and Gove at the top of your ticket.
Labourites calling for Hammond is a clear sign he's not the man we need.
They know Labour could smash a Hammond led Con party.
I am no Labouite but a Tory member and I would happily back Hammond in a few years, after all if Major beat Kinnock no reason Hammond could not beat Corbyn
Why ? His disastrous budget was the starting gun for the GE meltdown.
Then went AWOL during the GE.
Actually his National Insurance rise barely touched the Tory poll rating, it was Nick Timothy's 'dementia tax which cost the Tories votes
The U-turn was vastly more damaging than the NI rise.
Hammond was probably told by his drippingly right on advisors that it wouldn't be good to be seen at this point in his penguin suit as it would make him look like a "toff" and hence "out of touch" with fire victims.
Corbyn isn't doing it for the optics. He just quite simply cares. Which is precisely why the optics are great for him.
Quite. Of course the hideous quandary for May is that her presence could very well have made victims/survivors feel awkward, and the optics of her looking stand offish and them looking uncomfortable might have been even worse. What to do?
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
I agree. But you do not get soft Brexit with Boris, Davis and Gove at the top of your ticket.
Labourites calling for Hammond is a clear sign he's not the man we need.
They know Labour could smash a Hammond led Con party.
I am no Labouite but a Tory member and I would happily back Hammond in a few years, after all if Major beat Kinnock no reason Hammond could not beat Corbyn
Why ? His disastrous budget was the starting gun for the GE meltdown.
Then went AWOL during the GE.
Actually his National Insurance rise barely touched the Tory poll rating, it was Nick Timothy's 'dementia tax which cost the Tories votes
Well Nick Timothy said Mrs May decided to make the election focused on her exclusively.
She met emergency services who actually coordinate the response as she should as PM managing the response, exploiting this tragedy for political ends is the height of bad taste
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
I agree. But you do not get soft Brexit with Boris, Davis and Gove at the top of your ticket.
Labourites calling for Hammond is a clear sign he's not the man we need.
They know Labour could smash a Hammond led Con party.
I am no Labouite but a Tory member and I would happily back Hammond in a few years, after all if Major beat Kinnock no reason Hammond could not beat Corbyn
Why ? His disastrous budget was the starting gun for the GE meltdown.
Then went AWOL during the GE.
Actually his National Insurance rise barely touched the Tory poll rating, it was Nick Timothy's 'dementia tax which cost the Tories votes
The U-turn was vastly more damaging than the NI rise.
"Theresa May was photographed on a long lens talking to senior figures from the emergency services. She was criticised for not meeting residents, whereas Corbyn was seen chatting to residents and volunteers."
Clearly May isn't going looking for votes in the future.
One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?
She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.
"Theresa May was photographed on a long lens talking to senior figures from the emergency services. She was criticised for not meeting residents, whereas Corbyn was seen chatting to residents and volunteers."
Clearly May isn't going looking for votes in the future.
One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?
She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.
She's got go!
I'm sure she's a nice lady but she's completely clueless and her style doesn't work in a modern setting...
She met emergency services who actually coordinate the response as she should as PM managing the response, exploiting this tragedy for political ends is the height of bad taste
Let me get this right - visiting victims of tragedies (other than in secret) is political exploitation but visiting emergency services involved in those tragedies (other than in secret) has no political element?
Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.
A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.
A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
I agree. But you do not get soft Brexit with Boris, Davis and Gove at the top of your ticket.
Labourites calling for Hammond is a clear sign he's not the man we need.
They know Labour could smash a Hammond led Con party.
I am no Labouite but a Tory member and I would happily back Hammond in a few years, after all if Major beat Kinnock no reason Hammond could not beat Corbyn
Why ? His disastrous budget was the starting gun for the GE meltdown.
Then went AWOL during the GE.
Actually his National Insurance rise barely touched the Tory poll rating, it was Nick Timothy's 'dementia tax which cost the Tories votes
Well Nick Timothy said Mrs May decided to make the election focused on her exclusively.
So no, Hammond wasn't AWOL.
So Hammond made just as many appearances as Rudd and Boris ? Right...
His useless budget and subsequent row back should have been a warning to us all how the top table was rolling - downhill.
Corbyn isn't doing it for the optics. He just quite simply cares. Which is precisely why the optics are great for him.
Perhaps Jezza should have gone and visited the families of the victims of IRA bombings.
I'm sure May cares about the victims and families of the fire too.
Yes, but that isn't the situation right now. People are focussed rightly or wrongly on the Tories being in favour of slum landlords and against ordinary decent people. That is the perception. Expect Tory support to head to 35ish next poll.
She met emergency services who actually coordinate the response as she should as PM managing the response, exploiting this tragedy for political ends is the height of bad taste
I seem to remember several posters on here immediately after the Manchester bombing doing the 'we're hardheaded, realpolitik kinds of guys who have to analyse how bad this will look for Corbyn..oops...how this will generally affect the outcome of the GE' thang. What sort of bad taste altitude do you think they reached?
@PhilipHammondUK: In view of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, I have withdrawn from giving the Mansion House speech tonight. My thoughts are with local community.
One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?
She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.
She could have dampened down any anger by announcing the public inquiry at the meeting.
I don't think this painful spectacle is going to last much longer, TBH.
Corbyn isn't doing it for the optics. He just quite simply cares. Which is precisely why the optics are great for him.
Nah. He cares about his ideology. Individuals are expendable for the greater good in pursuing Marxist ideology. Hence the "red flag" with the blood of the martyred dead.
I'm as concerned about Corbyn as you. But I can see how this all looks to the wider public - not good, not good at all for the Tories.
She met emergency services who actually coordinate the response as she should as PM managing the response, exploiting this tragedy for political ends is the height of bad taste
Why then did the PM visit the victims and relatives of the Manchester bombing .... er .... during a general election campaign and then not visit the relatives and victims today .... er .... after a general election.
People criticised Churchills reaction to the great smog in London in 1952.
I suspect no matter what she does at this point it will be wrong. Same happened to Brown when he lost all credibility, no matter what he did he was made fun of.
She met emergency services who actually coordinate the response as she should as PM managing the response, exploiting this tragedy for political ends is the height of bad taste
Why then did the PM visit the victims and relatives of the Manchester bombing .... er .... during a general election campaign and then not visit the relatives and victims today .... er .... after a general election.
It's a mystery.
She may well do later but as the fire is only now beginning to peter out and victims remain unaccounted for the emergency response is still ongoing, shameless for any Corbynistas to try and make political capital out of it
She met emergency services who actually coordinate the response as she should as PM managing the response, exploiting this tragedy for political ends is the height of bad taste
Why then did the PM visit the victims and relatives of the Manchester bombing .... er .... during a general election campaign and then not visit the relatives and victims today .... er .... after a general election.
It's a mystery.
I think that's a bit harsh because it implies Theresa is a nasty,. calculating person, which I don't believe she is for a second... It's simply the fact that she is out of her depth, clueless and totally unsuited for modern day politics.
She should resign this afternoon and return to obscurity and irrelevance where I'm sure she's much better suited.
It looks from the outside as if Theresa May has given up on herself. If so, she should vacate the stage.
It's sad. Very sad. I feel sorry for her. But I am reluctantly coming to the same conclusion.
What a mess.
I think the only thing keeping Mrs May in place right now is if she quits Corbyn's going to demand the keys to number 10, especially if it is a full 3 month Leadership contest
Corbyn isn't doing it for the optics. He just quite simply cares. Which is precisely why the optics are great for him.
Nah. He cares about his ideology. Individuals are expendable for the greater good in pursuing Marxist ideology. Hence the "red flag" with the blood of the martyred dead.
I'm as concerned about Corbyn as you. But I can see how this all looks to the wider public - not good, not good at all for the Tories.
The 42% who voted Tory will not be swayed by a stage managed Corbyn photo op not that there is likely to be another election for yeats now anyway despite Corbyn's bleating
The problem for the Conservatives is that once the public and media have turned on you, everything that ever goes wrong is your fault and you cannot do anything right.
One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?
She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.
She could have dampened down any anger by announcing the public inquiry at the meeting.
I don't think this painful spectacle is going to last much longer, TBH.
It's almost like the Prime Minister has had a brain fart since the exit poll and frankly she shows no sign of this continuing political flatulence coming to a swift end.
Hammond was probably told by his drippingly right on advisors that it wouldn't be good to be seen at this point in his penguin suit as it would make him look like a "toff" and hence "out of touch" with fire victims.
No.
A large number of people have just been involuntarily cremated, probably as a result of the people in power f*cking up by coating their building in fuel and telling them not to try to save themselves.
A wealthy man appearing in front of an audience of other uber wealthy men, eating, drinking, and being told how wonderful everything is, while scores are dead and hundreds homeless a few miles away. Can't think why the Mansion House speech has been cancelled. Must be PC gone mad.
Corbyn isn't doing it for the optics. He just quite simply cares. Which is precisely why the optics are great for him.
Nah. He cares about his ideology. Individuals are expendable for the greater good in pursuing Marxist ideology. Hence the "red flag" with the blood of the martyred dead.
I'm as concerned about Corbyn as you. But I can see how this all looks to the wider public - not good, not good at all for the Tories.
The 42% who voted Tory will not be swayed by a stage managed Corbyn photo op not that there is likely to be another election for yeats now anyway despite Corbyn's bleating
One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?
She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.
She could have dampened down any anger by announcing the public inquiry at the meeting.
I don't think this painful spectacle is going to last much longer, TBH.
How short could a contested Tory leadership election be? When is the German general election? Maybe we should time our next one to coincide with that. The Tories would do well to try to get one sorted outside of university term time.
One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?
She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.
She could have dampened down any anger by announcing the public inquiry at the meeting.
I don't think this painful spectacle is going to last much longer, TBH.
How short could a contested Tory leadership election be? When is the German general election? Maybe we should time our next one to coincide with that. The Tories would do well to try to get one sorted outside of university term time.
I think what will happen is she'll pass the queens speech and then resign, so we'll be in minority government and not hand over Jez.
A wealthy man appearing in front of an audience of other uber wealthy men, eating, drinking, and being told how wonderful everything is, while scores are dead and hundreds homeless a few miles away. Can't think why the Mansion House speech has been cancelled. Must be PC gone mad.
One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?
She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.
She could have dampened down any anger by announcing the public inquiry at the meeting.
I don't think this painful spectacle is going to last much longer, TBH.
How short could a contested Tory leadership election be? When is the German general election? Maybe we should time our next one to coincide with that. The Tories would do well to try to get one sorted outside of university term time.
Major did not take over until 3 years into the 1987-1992 Parliament
Comments
"Speed bonnie boat..."
The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.
How do you reach that second election though? It just looks cynical to call one without a specific trigger event, and despite the polls there's clearly election fatigue out there.
Very sad.
Clearly May isn't going looking for votes in the future.
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/875305038574481408
Remainers and those Leavers insufficiently supportive of the absolute hardest of Brexits.
The Cameron old order - Crosby, Osborne etc.
The feckless youth.
The question is, how many Tories will swallow it? I suspect quite a lot.
The Lib Dems then play a role in negotiating an EEA route, the DUP may abstain but will not vote with Corbyn, job done.
Just as Osborne was peeved about being sacked by May, looks as if Hammond hasn't forgiven her for telling him he was going during the election.
Perhaps he should be reading some of Geoffrey Howe and Nigel(la) Lawson's old speeches.
Hammond as PM yes but he will still have to implement Brexit, even if a softer Brexit, to ensure he does not lose many Tory Leave voters to UKIP while being able to regain a few Tory Remain voters who stayed at home or voted Labour or LD this time
Worst CoTE since Brown.
I agree. But you do not get soft Brexit with Boris, Davis and Gove at the top of your ticket.
Labourites calling for Hammond is a clear sign he's not the man we need.
They know Labour could smash a Hammond led Con party.
After May took over we all thought that the result had confounded expectations, unifying the Tories and dividing Labour. It now seems we may be heading for a reversal on that front.
The future is more promising for Scottish Labour and possibly the Scottish Lib Dems especially with Jo Swinson as leader .
No but they could still have cabinet posts and Boris is flexible I think
They know Labour could smash a Hammond led Con party.'
I am no Labourite but a Tory member and I would happily back Hammond in a few years, after all if Major beat Kinnock no reason Hammond could not beat Corbyn
Why ? His disastrous budget was the starting gun for the GE meltdown.
Then went AWOL during the GE.
https://twitter.com/SimonNRicketts/status/875322620522180608
Dacre will jump ship from May as soon as a viable hard brexiteer emerges to challenge.
The mail is in a holding pattern. Hence the Diana front pages.
Which is precisely why the optics are great for him.
Then went AWOL during the GE.
Actually his National Insurance rise barely touched the Tory poll rating, it was Nick Timothy's 'dementia tax which cost the Tories votes
The U-turn was vastly more damaging than the NI rise.
Of course the hideous quandary for May is that her presence could very well have made victims/survivors feel awkward, and the optics of her looking stand offish and them looking uncomfortable might have been even worse.
What to do?
Well Nick Timothy said Mrs May decided to make the election focused on her exclusively.
So no, Hammond wasn't AWOL.
I'm sure May cares about the victims and families of the fire too.
None of that to do with Hammond
She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.
Do women go to muslim heaven? We hear all about the men and martyrs with permanent erections and 72 virgins. If I was muslim, what would I get?
I am not sure I would want 72 blokes half-crazed by permanent priapism queuing at my bedside for eternity.
I'm sure she's a nice lady but she's completely clueless and her style doesn't work in a modern setting...
So no, Hammond wasn't AWOL.
So Hammond made just as many appearances as Rudd and Boris ? Right...
His useless budget and subsequent row back should have been a warning to us all how the top table was rolling - downhill.
Individuals are expendable for the greater good in pursuing Marxist ideology.
Hence the "red flag" with the blood of the martyred dead.
That is the perception. Expect Tory support to head to 35ish next poll.
You have to get lucky and pray you have the right numbers...and thats what Yougov were, lucky.
https://twitter.com/boxertoye/status/875105271428907012
I don't think this painful spectacle is going to last much longer, TBH.
It's a mystery.
The results left me traumatised.
Not since the time I googled 'Well groomed man' have I been so traumatised.
What a mess.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/15/john-mcdonnell-calls-one-million-protesters-take-streets-bid/
She should resign this afternoon and return to obscurity and irrelevance where I'm sure she's much better suited.
https://twitter.com/MattWestern_/status/875335171456761856
Expect about another 1,820 days of it.
Do you not "scrub up well"?
A large number of people have just been involuntarily cremated, probably as a result of the people in power f*cking up by coating their building in fuel and telling them not to try to save themselves.
The people in power cannot carry on as normal.
Can't think why the Mansion House speech has been cancelled.
Must be PC gone mad.
'Google 'Well groomed man' for fashion tips'