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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The biggest loser. How Nicola Sturgeon did even worse than TMa

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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    isam said:

    I I was knocked for saying it, but still maintain if Farage were a Con MP he would be leader and wipe the floor w Corbyn.

    People say he is divisive, but isn't (wasn't?) Jezza?

    Corbyn comes across as a thoroughly decent human being despite what the press says

    Farage doesnt.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,539

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
    Does the 'provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army' have a favoured Prime Ministerial candidate?
    Jeremy Hunt or Phil Hammond. Michael Fallon at a push.
    Hunt for me. Certainly ahead of the other two listed.
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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    edited June 2017
    PAW said:

    Mrs May should announce that all local authority tower blocks will be reclad and fitted with external fire escape towers, or redeveloped to new designs.

    Even though people's lives are paramount, that does sound too kneejerk. Certainly I expect the blocks with the same cladding will have it removed before the end of this year, but external escape towers? No chance. I think the money will go into a review of the compartmentalisation and integrity of every block. By all accounts, if this fire had broken out in Grenfell 5 years ago, the result would've been very different. The fire would've been largely contained, it would've spread slowly, and people would've had the ability and time to get out down the stairs or be rescued.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,030
    Good afternoon, everyone.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,714
    Well if he can bring peace to Northern Ireland.....

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/875354417205325825
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    Well if he can bring peace to Northern Ireland.....

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/875354417205325825

    Would be a very smart move
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987
    GIN1138 said:

    It's when, not if. May is finished. So who? Boris is immensely popular among Tories but he is also very polarising. What votes would he win back that May lost?

    The priority now is not to win votes, but to get a functioning government again which won't make blunder after blunder.

    Then it has to be Hammond.

    Hammond's last budget was a disaster...

    It became a disaster when May got spooked by negative headlines in the right wing press.

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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,851

    It's when, not if. May is finished. So who? Boris is immensely popular among Tories but he is also very polarising. What votes would he win back that May lost?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/15/tory-election-research-found-boris-johnson-was-deeply-divisive

    It's up to Conservative MPs first and Party members second. These are the people who thought Theresa May was doing a WONDERFUL job on Brexit, God help us, but were miffed she didn't get the landslide. I don't hold out much hope that wise counsel will prevail.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,034
    DavidL said:

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
    Does the 'provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army' have a favoured Prime Ministerial candidate?
    Jeremy Hunt or Phil Hammond. Michael Fallon at a push.
    Hunt for me. Certainly ahead of the other two listed.
    God Almighty, Hunt would do worse than May.

    "So Jeremy, you were health secretary..."
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Well if he can bring peace to Northern Ireland.....

    SaneBrexit, better known as Remain...
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    619 said:

    isam said:

    I I was knocked for saying it, but still maintain if Farage were a Con MP he would be leader and wipe the floor w Corbyn.

    People say he is divisive, but isn't (wasn't?) Jezza?

    Corbyn comes across as a thoroughly decent human being despite what the press says

    Farage doesnt.
    He is also a complete clown. An odious clown.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814
    Sean_F said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
    The scales have dropped from the publics eyes. And, she is personally taking the blame for the current impasse. Rightly so. If the Tories have even a flake of backbone they will tell her she is gone this week and that she will stay as PM until her successor is appointed. And do as she is told by the party. The candidates must make clear if they will seek a mandate from the electorate, and when and the party machinery should be turned full square on Corbyn and the Labour leadership.
    I expect them to do none of this. Because they are useless and entitled. They will be destroyed in the next election and they have nobody but themselves to blame.
    So your suggestion is May stays as caretaker, the Tories have a leadership election and then go to the country for another GE. That would take 3 months I guess.
    What happens to the Brexit negotiations and the ticking clock in the meantime?
    I'm not sure. I'm not sure what happens to it if they don't take that course. I'd assume David Davis goes into negotiations and is replaced if the Tories lose the ensuing GE by a Labour delegation. There's not really any other option.
    The Tories have no right to seek a fresh general election.
    If we do, we're f*cked.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    OchEye said:

    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.

    July 10th is a Monday, seems a bit odd.
    That's the date by which CCHQ has said candidates should apply. Would mean an August election possibly.
    When we're all on holiday.
    OK, September then, but that's conference season.
    October it is
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,539

    PAW said:

    Mrs May should announce that all local authority tower blocks will be reclad and fitted with external fire escape towers, or redeveloped to new designs.

    At the risk of sounding like a heartless bastard. How much would that cost?

    The answer is yes, it should probably happen, but it'll take many many years to get that done, and cost a heck of a lot.

    Fires of this magnitude are very rare, surely the best, boring course of action is to have an investigation, find out exactly what happened, and then reasonable costed recommendations from there.
    I saw a figure of £10m a block for the cladding alone, let alone retrofitting sprinklers through concrete and steel. In many cases the only economically sensible solution is to demolish the bloc. Not necessarily a bad thing all round to be honest.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    FF43 said:

    It's when, not if. May is finished. So who? Boris is immensely popular among Tories but he is also very polarising. What votes would he win back that May lost?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/15/tory-election-research-found-boris-johnson-was-deeply-divisive

    It's up to Conservative MPs first and Party members second. These are the people who thought Theresa May was doing a WONDERFUL job on Brexit, God help us, but were miffed she didn't get the landslide. I don't hold out much hope that wise counsel will prevail.
    They liked IDS and Leadsome.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,034
    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    Blimey.
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    nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    DanSmith said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Tories need to move fast here because if Corbyn becoming PM stops being this outrageous idea and starts being a normal and almost obvious choice, they are gone.
    And so is the country!
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    TFW your strong and stable leadership gives you worse favorability ratings than Donald Trump.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,925
    Pong said:

    Scott_P said:
    Utterly astonishing.

    Books are going to be written about this.
    When the GE was called and some of the PB Tories were drooling over their 150 majority and speculating over which Labour MPs would be ousted and whether Labour could go below 20% of the vote, the only consolation for us lefties was that hubris rarely ends well. However I doubt any of us thought that retribution would be so swift.
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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    Someone's surely got to be making a "Game of Thrones: 2017 UK edition" as we write?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.

    I owe you an apology.

    For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.

    Turns out you were right.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    It became a disaster when May got spooked by negative headlines in the right wing press.

    The day of the Brexit means Brexit speech
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited June 2017
    atia2 said:

    OchEye said:

    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.

    July 10th is a Monday, seems a bit odd.
    That's the date by which CCHQ has said candidates should apply. Would mean an August election possibly.
    Snap election for what???
    Someone else had speculated about it. I was looking at the dates mentioned.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    FF43 said:

    Most immigration is driven by money.

    That's what I thought, mistakenly as it turned out. Saying foreigners not welcome is an effective way to reduce immigration. It's not "control" of any sensible kind, nor is it a sign of an open and civilised Britain that I would want to be a part of. But it does get the numbers down, which is all that May et al care about.
    The large decline in the value of the pound after the Brexit vote is thought to have had an effect, making wages earned in GBP less attractive for East Europeans wanting to send money home.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    619 said:

    Corbyn comes across as a thoroughly decent human being despite what the press says

    Farage doesnt.

    @KathyBurke: Farage's desperation for Trumps attention is like a baby elephant crying out for a mother that's already been shot by one of Trumps kids.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    Blimey.
    what cost would the lib dems extract? Vote reform, second referendum?


    May might as well do something radical, she's got nothing to lose at this point.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    PAW said:

    And shut off gas to tower blocks.

    The initial reports blame it on a domestic appliance (fridge) that caught fire.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,341
    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    I'm sure the Lib Dems would listen to her proposal politely and then decline. But what does this say about the deal with DUP? Did Theresa pull the plug on it?
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    Completely Off-Topic:

    Do women go to muslim heaven? We hear all about the men and martyrs with permanent erections and 72 virgins. If I was muslim, what would I get?

    I am not sure I would want 72 blokes half-crazed by permanent priapism queuing at my bedside for eternity.

    Women get a respite from being pestered by such blokes.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited June 2017
    DavidL said:

    PAW said:

    Mrs May should announce that all local authority tower blocks will be reclad and fitted with external fire escape towers, or redeveloped to new designs.

    At the risk of sounding like a heartless bastard. How much would that cost?

    The answer is yes, it should probably happen, but it'll take many many years to get that done, and cost a heck of a lot.

    Fires of this magnitude are very rare, surely the best, boring course of action is to have an investigation, find out exactly what happened, and then reasonable costed recommendations from there.
    I saw a figure of £10m a block for the cladding alone, let alone retrofitting sprinklers through concrete and steel. In many cases the only economically sensible solution is to demolish the bloc. Not necessarily a bad thing all round to be honest.
    It's time to bollox 5% of the greenbelt and newbuild a couple of million new townhouses.
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    ANY NEWS ON THE BIGOT BEANFEAST?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,949

    GIN1138 said:

    You went for Theresa though and look how she turned out.

    True, but I hadn't anticipated her extraordinary transformation from safe pair of hands to one-woman constitutional wrecking-ball.

    The problem was emphatically not that she turned out too dull - quite the opposite.
    I can't see how you go from Mrs glumbuckets to Mr glumbuackets and expect much difference in Tory support but we shall see.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    DavidL said:

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
    Does the 'provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army' have a favoured Prime Ministerial candidate?
    Jeremy Hunt or Phil Hammond. Michael Fallon at a push.
    Hunt for me. Certainly ahead of the other two listed.
    Maybe the Tory Party has a death wish. Jeremy Hunt would not be a good choice.
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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,438
    25 working days is required as a minimum between dissolution and a general election. So I make the earliest Thursday for a General Election is July 27 (dissolution of parliament start of next week).

    If you wait until after the vote on the Queen's Speech then you are into August.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    Cable will be having the vapours :D
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
    What would they get?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,949
    edited June 2017
    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    Checking to confirm Lib's will abstain on QS I guess.

    DUP "Deal" looks DOA?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,030
    I'd not be disheartened if Lamb were deputy PM.

    Hope Cable could be shoved somewhere out of the way. Ambassador to North Korea?

    That said, I don't think anything will come of May talking with the Lib Dems.
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185

    ANY NEWS ON THE BIGOT BEANFEAST?

    Did Ken and Jezza have lunch?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,459
    The only question is when
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814
    I think May was there to take the blame for the EU/UK citizens deal and the £40bn exit payment, prior to the real talks starting in late Autumn, whilst a new leadership election took place, but I can't see how she lasts now.
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    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    OchEye said:

    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.

    July 10th is a Monday, seems a bit odd.
    I know, I only reported it as gossip, but pesky students on holidays - too much of a temptation? And the Tories still, reputedly, have a massive cash pile to splurge.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,949
    edited June 2017

    I'd not be disheartened if Lamb were deputy PM.

    Hope Cable could be shoved somewhere out of the way. Ambassador to North Korea?

    That said, I don't think anything will come of May talking with the Lib Dems.

    Lib-Dems won't get involved in a coalition with Con. Not after 2015. Doubt they'd even do confidence and supply.

    This will just be about checking they are going to abstain on QS - Main significance is that Con wouldn't need to do that if they were going with DUP.
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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    https://order-order.com/2017/06/15/corbyn-winning-with-politicised-grenfell-fire-response/

    Crikey even Guido is giving Corbyn praise. May cannot be long for this political world surely.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    Checking to confirm Lib's will abstain on QS I guess.

    DUP "Deal" looks DOA?
    Why should they?
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,
    Mr Eagles! To admit publicly that you routinely wet the bed is quite an admission. I am shocked. I thought you were a well groomed gentleman!

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.

    I am not a Tory and I have been called traitor more than once, but I too am actually devastated by what is happening to the UK. I always regarded this place as one of the finest places in the world - beautiful, tolerant, advanced and leading the way forward.

    Now it is seems to be a divided society in so many different ways. I know the Brexiteers bang on about being more outward facing post-Brexit but right now the country seems more inward looking than ever.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Pong said:

    DavidL said:

    PAW said:

    Mrs May should announce that all local authority tower blocks will be reclad and fitted with external fire escape towers, or redeveloped to new designs.

    At the risk of sounding like a heartless bastard. How much would that cost?

    The answer is yes, it should probably happen, but it'll take many many years to get that done, and cost a heck of a lot.

    Fires of this magnitude are very rare, surely the best, boring course of action is to have an investigation, find out exactly what happened, and then reasonable costed recommendations from there.
    I saw a figure of £10m a block for the cladding alone, let alone retrofitting sprinklers through concrete and steel. In many cases the only economically sensible solution is to demolish the bloc. Not necessarily a bad thing all round to be honest.
    It's time to bollox 5% of the greenbelt and newbuild a couple of million new townhouses.
    Supposing the occupants of these demolished tower blocks want to carry on living where the tower blocks are
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    nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Corbyn isn't doing it for the optics. He just quite simply cares.
    Which is precisely why the optics are great for him.

    Nah. He cares about his ideology.
    Individuals are expendable for the greater good in pursuing Marxist ideology.
    Hence the "red flag" with the blood of the martyred dead.
    I'm as concerned about Corbyn as you. But I can see how this all looks to the wider public - not good, not good at all for the Tories.
    The 42% who voted Tory will not be swayed by a stage managed Corbyn photo op not that there is likely to be another election for yeats now anyway despite Corbyn's bleating
    Jesus, open your eyes.
    He's so blinkered. Also he doesn't understand how FPTP works.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,539
    Pong said:

    DavidL said:

    PAW said:

    Mrs May should announce that all local authority tower blocks will be reclad and fitted with external fire escape towers, or redeveloped to new designs.

    At the risk of sounding like a heartless bastard. How much would that cost?

    The answer is yes, it should probably happen, but it'll take many many years to get that done, and cost a heck of a lot.

    Fires of this magnitude are very rare, surely the best, boring course of action is to have an investigation, find out exactly what happened, and then reasonable costed recommendations from there.
    I saw a figure of £10m a block for the cladding alone, let alone retrofitting sprinklers through concrete and steel. In many cases the only economically sensible solution is to demolish the bloc. Not necessarily a bad thing all round to be honest.
    It's time to bollox 5% of the greenbelt and newbuild a couple of million new townhouses.
    Agreed. Would be a good time for such investment too. I am getting increasingly concerned about my GDP bet with Robert. The Tories seem determined to make me lose!
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Completely Off-Topic:

    Do women go to muslim heaven? We hear all about the men and martyrs with permanent erections and 72 virgins. If I was muslim, what would I get?

    I am not sure I would want 72 blokes half-crazed by permanent priapism queuing at my bedside for eternity.

    Women get a respite from being pestered by such blokes.
    :D
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814
    I can't believe this is happening.

    How can she be this shit? HOW?
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    25 working days is required as a minimum between dissolution and a general election. So I make the earliest Thursday for a General Election is July 27 (dissolution of parliament start of next week).

    If you wait until after the vote on the Queen's Speech then you are into August.

    July 27 is already in the school holidays and a large proportion of thecountry will be away.

    Most boroughs break up around 20 July this year. No way IMO a general election can be held during the summer break. I make 14 September the first viable date and even then a lot of people (without school age children) will still be away.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,539
    edited June 2017

    DavidL said:

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
    Does the 'provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army' have a favoured Prime Ministerial candidate?
    Jeremy Hunt or Phil Hammond. Michael Fallon at a push.
    Hunt for me. Certainly ahead of the other two listed.
    Maybe the Tory Party has a death wish. Jeremy Hunt would not be a good choice.
    Christ you are setting the bar high. A good choice? I was aiming for less than disastrous.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
    I don't see how a Lib Dem deal works with their stance on Brexit.
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    nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    Pulpstar said:

    atia2 said:

    DanSmith said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Tories need to move fast here because if Corbyn becoming PM stops being this outrageous idea and starts being a normal and almost obvious choice, they are gone.
    Too late, I'm afraid.
    I assume you'll be targetting Wimbledon ?
    At this rate they really will be lucky to hold Chelsea and Fulham.
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.

    Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.

    Having been quoted in Private Eye admitting that I got huge amounts wrong, I'm taking every opportunity on the other side of the fence that I can get for the while.
    I'd like to point out that I said if turnout in Scotland was down but not hugely down the the SNP were in serious trouble.
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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038

    OchEye said:

    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.

    July 10th is a Monday, seems a bit odd.
    That's the date by which CCHQ has said candidates should apply. Would mean an August election possibly.
    ??? Is May so determined to hold on? Surely those around her wouldn't let her call an election rather than forcing her to resign?

    IF it's true that the DUP talks are going badly and she's even talking to LibDems this must mean that she's on the brink of resigning.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited June 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    I'd not be disheartened if Lamb were deputy PM.

    Hope Cable could be shoved somewhere out of the way. Ambassador to North Korea?

    That said, I don't think anything will come of May talking with the Lib Dems.

    Lib-Dems won't get involved in a coalition with Con. Not after 2015. Doubt they'd even do confidence and supply.

    This will just be about checking they are going to abstain on QS - Main significant is that Con wouldn't need to do that if they were going with DUP.
    Suggests either the DUP have threatened to take down the QS or they are abstaining but Jezza has convinced SF to take their seats in return for a referendum on United Ireland. Otherwise the LDs are simply not needed.
    Or..... getting them to agree to abstain the QS, get Brexit negotiations underway and both Tory and Libs get a new leader then vote for a new election via self inflicted vote of NC supported by the LDs.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,949

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    Checking to confirm Lib's will abstain on QS I guess.

    DUP "Deal" looks DOA?
    Why should they?
    Because if Con can't get their QS through the government falls and we'll have an immediate election (well immediately after it becomes Jezza can't get a QS through either) which you would assume the LIb-Dems will want to avoid given we only had one last week.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,293

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
    The dream detox scenario for them would be if the government conceded a commitment to a second referendum as the price of their support.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
    I don't see how a Lib Dem deal works with their stance on Brexit.
    It doesn't.

    Only if the DUP are very stupid, will they blink.

    They're not stupid.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.

    Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
    Zac out again?
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Tezza is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Visit the survivors and have Corbynistas yell abuse. Don't visit and be accused of being cold.

    Jezza, on the other hand, is a 24-carat **** for politicising this terrible tragedy.

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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
    Does the 'provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army' have a favoured Prime Ministerial candidate?
    Jeremy Hunt or Phil Hammond. Michael Fallon at a push.
    Hunt for me. Certainly ahead of the other two listed.
    God Almighty, Hunt would do worse than May.

    "So Jeremy, you were health secretary..."
    Hunt is massively hated. He had to hide during the last campaign!
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    Clown_Car_HQClown_Car_HQ Posts: 169

    DavidL said:

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
    Does the 'provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army' have a favoured Prime Ministerial candidate?
    Jeremy Hunt or Phil Hammond. Michael Fallon at a push.
    Hunt for me. Certainly ahead of the other two listed.
    Maybe the Tory Party has a death wish. Jeremy Hunt would not be a good choice.
    Jeremy Hunt. Yes, I think the country is crying out for him to be Prime Minister. Revered and loved by all. Gawd bless'im.

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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
    I don't see how a Lib Dem deal works with their stance on Brexit.
    All the Lib Dems need is:
    1: To abstain
    or 2: To get the Tories to put Single Market back on the table.
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    619619 Posts: 1,784

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
    Nah, still look bad to a majority of their members.

    They have to get a big concession on Brexit to even try and sell that
  • Options
    IcarusIcarus Posts: 914

    OchEye said:

    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.

    July 10th is a Monday, seems a bit odd.
    That's the date by which CCHQ has said candidates should apply. Would mean an August election possibly.
    When we're all on holiday.
    and the students are away
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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    PAW said:

    And shut off gas to tower blocks.

    Counterintuitively, gas has proved itself safe in tower blocks for decades. The safety rules are excellent. Gas engineers are brilliant people, and so are the people who check them and their work.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814
    Get rid of her. Cut out the cancer.

    She can't negotiate shit. She is shit.

    Davis as emergency stopgap for 2 years. Promotes young blood. Get through Brexit.

    He steps down. Proper leadership contest in 2019.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,714
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
    Does the 'provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army' have a favoured Prime Ministerial candidate?
    Jeremy Hunt or Phil Hammond. Michael Fallon at a push.
    Hunt for me. Certainly ahead of the other two listed.
    God Almighty, Hunt would do worse than May.

    "So Jeremy, you were health secretary..."
    In five years as Health Secretary no one has been able to lay a glove on him.

    Health is Labour's strongest suit.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,539

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.

    Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
    Zac out again?
    A sliver lining on every cloud indeed.
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    atia2atia2 Posts: 207


    Jezza, on the other hand, is a 24-carat **** for politicising this terrible tragedy.

    They don't like it up 'em, the Tories!
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    What else is she supposed to do - pre-empt the public enquiry and queer the pitch ?

    Cool heads required not David Lammy.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,949


    Tezza is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Visit the survivors and have Corbynistas yell abuse. Don't visit and be accused of being cold.


    So you do the right thing... Which is to visit to the survivors and give them an hour or so of your time...

    In a day or two we'll see HMQ visiting the survivors and showing Theresa how its done.

    Is HMQ loved and admired in that part of London? Doubt it. But she'll show up at some point anyway.
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 914

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
    The dream detox scenario for them would be if the government conceded a commitment to a second referendum as the price of their support.
    Plus PR voting in local elections
  • Options
    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    She would have been abused, Momentum would have had all their activists waiting for her, Corbyn would have been sniggering somewhere in the background, and the publicity would have been even worse than not visiting them. It stinks, but what possible choice did she have? It would have been a disaster whatever she did.

    However, we are in Gordon Brown territory here. Everything he did and said went wrong after the botched non-election.

    May is looking increasingly like Brown, and yes, it's surely a matter of weeks, if not days, before she goes. QS then resign.
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    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
    I don't see how a Lib Dem deal works with their stance on Brexit.
    Puts it on hold, with no blame on the Tories!
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.

    Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
    Swift way to lose their Scottish gains.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,034

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.

    Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
    Zac out again?
    He might defect if Lamb becomes leader xD
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.

    Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
    Swift way to lose their Scottish gains.
    Well they would only do it if they thought the benefit would outweigh any cost.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,088

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.

    I owe you an apology.

    For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.

    Turns out you were right.
    Not really, he contrasted her deeply mediocre with Corbyn utter crap, & said she wins every time
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    I'm actually kinda hoping we find some way out Brexit, I'm in SeanT's camp. Get EEA/ETFA in some why, don't worry about immigration anymore, and focus on the economy,.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,034
    I hope everyone here votes Lib Dem if the party once again sures up the national situation at large risk to itself, and saves the nation from Corbyn.
    Country before party
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,293
    edited June 2017
    Icarus said:

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.
    The dream detox scenario for them would be if the government conceded a commitment to a second referendum as the price of their support.
    Plus PR voting in local elections
    Adopting PR for the European elections was a disaster because it gave a bigger platform to irresponsible populists like UKIP. Perhaps for local elections the same dynamic wouldn't apply but I don't think PR should be perused in any circumstance. The UK has much greater constitutional issues that won't be solved by tinkering with the voting system.
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Why on earth would there be an immediate general election unless you specifically want to hand the keys to No 10 to a Corbyn armed with an overall majority? Some of the fevered speculation on here is ludicrous. Having said that I am a little disappointed in TM. I thought she would emerge from the election fiasco and surprise us in a good way having shaken off her shackles. She has indeed but not exactly in the way I expected.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,851

    Scott_P said:

    @WillJPatterson: Mutterings abound that senior LibDems are to meet with Theresa May. It can't be what it looks like... Can it?!

    The chief impediment may have been removed last night.

    Remember, the Lib Dems only need to abstain in votes for the Conservatives to have a majority. Presentationally, that might be very convenient for them.

    Liberals – propping up the Tories. Why would they? They would probably make several gains in any new election.
    If the government goes for full single market with everything that implies, they should get the LDs and the SNP on board, particularly if they set up a Scottish caucus through Ruth Davidson's group. They would then have the numbers to get Brexit through with or without the nod from Labour. The main opposition would be on the Tory benches. It could split the party but they are stuck between a rock and a hard Brexit place.
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Have to bring in the mansion tax for London now, to pay for it all. £500,000 + plus homes should pay.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814
    I just don't think she's flexible enough to operate outside her comfort zone.

    That is, with her closest and trusted advisors (and no-one else) deciding what she wants to do
    rather slowly in secret, and with a huge majority to push through whatever she wants without opposition.

    She has lost her majority.

    She has lost her advisors.

    She has no other base in the party.

    She has lost her confidence.

    She's mismanaged the negotiation with the DUP.

    She's mismanaged the fire.

    She is making IDS look good.

    She can't do the job, and she must go.
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    nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    isam said:

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.

    I owe you an apology.

    For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.

    Turns out you were right.
    Not really, he contrasted her deeply mediocre with Corbyn utter crap, & said she wins every time
    Exactly. And even after the exit poll he said it was wrong and May was on course for a landslide.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.

    I owe you an apology.

    For weeks (prior to Dementia tax) you ran the May is deeply mediocre line on here. I thought it was just a partisan attack line. And, perhaps, at the time it was.

    Turns out you were right.

    Cheers - but not a problem.

    May has always struck me as the epitome of mediocrity. There just does not seem to be anything there. I was truly astonished that she was as popular as she was. I could not see it at all. I felt like some Tories must have felt about Tony Blair. The only thing that I liked about May was that she was not Andrea Leadsom!

    I have always liked Hammond. He is quiet and dull, but comes across to me as smart, flexible and able to properly think through an issue. We could do with him now, quite frankly. But I guess we will end up with Boris - God help us!!

This discussion has been closed.