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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The biggest loser. How Nicola Sturgeon did even worse than TMa

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  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:
    Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?
    Anything is possible. But, I doubt it with May as leader.

    A Boris-Davidson combo would have the stardust, but Boris can't be PM.

    A technically competent team would be Davis-Gove, Davis as PM and Gove in DexEU, but unpopular.
    Hammond as PM +Davidson on Scotland with Gove or Davis as Chancellor would be the best longer term bet but the Tories will try and go as far into the 5 year term as possible without an election, secretly backed by the SNP on that

    The Tories will not win back the Remain voters they lost last week by putting the likes of Davis, Gove and Boris at the top of their ticket. Hammond has to be the man.



    I would simply add that in Scotland, too many people are now very interested in politics, and should the SNP support, even by abstaining on a vote, the Tories, they will lose nearly all of their Central Belt supporters.

    They have lost the NE Farming constituencies by the cockups with the EU payments (and the Scottish Government in line for a £60 million fine). While the Fishing constituencies are annoyed with the pro-EU line the SNP exec are taking.

    Murrell and Sturgeon are fully aware that they have boxed themselves in and that the earth is looking like it might fill the grave on it's own without the need of any shovel.

    Gossip has it that the SNP is in financial difficulty, such as the SNP Independence crowd fund of around £500k disappearing, and no major donations since the beginning of the year.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited June 2017

    Completely Off-Topic:

    Do women go to muslim heaven? We hear all about the men and martyrs with permanent erections and 72 virgins. If I was muslim, what would I get?

    I am not sure I would want 72 blokes half-crazed by permanent priapism queuing at my bedside for eternity.

    Moslem heaven for women clearly involves not being part of the 72.

    If I was one of the 72 I think the blokes would come to regret it very quickly

    :naughty:
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    JackW said:

    One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?

    She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.

    She could have dampened down any anger by announcing the public inquiry at the meeting.

    I don't think this painful spectacle is going to last much longer, TBH.
    The best thing for the country now (and for May herself, who is clearly losing the will to go on) would be to appoint Hammond as PM in a caretaker role.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,225
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Corbyn isn't doing it for the optics. He just quite simply cares.
    Which is precisely why the optics are great for him.

    Nah. He cares about his ideology.
    Individuals are expendable for the greater good in pursuing Marxist ideology.
    Hence the "red flag" with the blood of the martyred dead.
    I'm as concerned about Corbyn as you. But I can see how this all looks to the wider public - not good, not good at all for the Tories.
    The 42% who voted Tory will not be swayed by a stage managed Corbyn photo op not that there is likely to be another election for yeats now anyway despite Corbyn's bleating
    Jesus, open your eyes.
    To a stage managed Corbyn photo op they are already open
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,382

    JackW said:

    One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?

    She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.

    She could have dampened down any anger by announcing the public inquiry at the meeting.

    I don't think this painful spectacle is going to last much longer, TBH.

    How short could a contested Tory leadership election be? When is the German general election? Maybe we should time our next one to coincide with that. The Tories would do well to try to get one sorted outside of university term time.

    How about Halloween? 'I'm your Conservative candidate. Trick or treat?'
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    How short could a contested Tory leadership election be?

    IIRC, the timing is up to the 1922 Committee. They could probably keep it quite short but the problem would be organising the poll of members.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    JackW said:

    One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?

    She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.

    She could have dampened down any anger by announcing the public inquiry at the meeting.

    I don't think this painful spectacle is going to last much longer, TBH.
    The best thing for the country now (and for May herself, who is clearly losing the will to go on) would be to appoint Hammond as PM in a caretaker role.
    My 500/1 betting slip fervently agrees with you.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,710
    The Tories should bring back the magic circle and ditch leadership elections.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,288
    MaxPB said:

    JackW said:

    One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?

    She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.

    She could have dampened down any anger by announcing the public inquiry at the meeting.

    I don't think this painful spectacle is going to last much longer, TBH.

    How short could a contested Tory leadership election be? When is the German general election? Maybe we should time our next one to coincide with that. The Tories would do well to try to get one sorted outside of university term time.

    I think what will happen is she'll pass the queens speech and then resign, so we'll be in minority government and not hand over Jez.
    Am I right in deducing that the only practical reason why she would need to cling on until after the Queen's speech is that the Tories don't have a candidate they're willing to coronate, otherwise there wouldn't be any immediate implications for Corbyn being asked to form a government?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,034
    MaxPB said:

    JackW said:

    One does wonder who the hell is advising the PM - Momentum ?!?

    She's developing a habit of partial appearances. Her "advisers" were clearly concerned about the PM meeting residents or bereaved relatives in public and getting a verbal tirade for her trouble. If necessary she should have met them in private. Just meeting the emergency services in public gives the impression of tokenism and a photo op.

    She could have dampened down any anger by announcing the public inquiry at the meeting.

    I don't think this painful spectacle is going to last much longer, TBH.

    How short could a contested Tory leadership election be? When is the German general election? Maybe we should time our next one to coincide with that. The Tories would do well to try to get one sorted outside of university term time.

    I think what will happen is she'll pass the queens speech and then resign, so we'll be in minority government and not hand over Jez.
    That'd be the best idea I think.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2017
    The Mansion House dinner has been cancelled altogether.
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Corbyn isn't doing it for the optics. He just quite simply cares.
    Which is precisely why the optics are great for him.

    Nah. He cares about his ideology.
    Individuals are expendable for the greater good in pursuing Marxist ideology.
    Hence the "red flag" with the blood of the martyred dead.
    I'm as concerned about Corbyn as you. But I can see how this all looks to the wider public - not good, not good at all for the Tories.
    The 42% who voted Tory will not be swayed by a stage managed Corbyn photo op not that there is likely to be another election for yeats now anyway despite Corbyn's bleating
    Jesus, open your eyes.
    To a stage managed Corbyn photo op they are already open
    He appears to have empathy.
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    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    Scott_P said:

    @PhilipHammondUK: In view of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, I have withdrawn from giving the Mansion House speech tonight. My thoughts are with local community.

    How odd.
    Risible. There is no plan. There is no government.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,710

    The Mansion House dinner has been cancelled altogether.

    Yup

    The City of London Corporation has decided to cancel the event.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40288358
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pong said:

    TGOHF said:

    Hammond was probably told by his drippingly right on advisors that it wouldn't be good to be seen at this point in his penguin suit as it would make him look like a "toff" and hence "out of touch" with fire victims.

    No.

    A large number of people have just been involuntarily cremated, probably as a result of the people in power f*cking up by coating their building in fuel and telling them not to try to save themselves.

    The people in power cannot carry on as normal.
    The building was managed by a residents association quango - not the government.

    This return of Bambi eyed Blairesque obsession with "optics" is why the country is going to the dogs.

  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Nick Timothy sticks the knife into election guru Sir Lynton Crosby over the Tory poll disaster"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4603966/Nick-Timothy-criticises-Sir-Lynton-Crosby-election.html

    Interesting. It appears that project 'Revive Theresa' is already under way.
    Going well so far.

    https://twitter.com/SimonNRicketts/status/875322620522180608
    She met emergency services who actually coordinate the response as she should as PM managing the response, exploiting this tragedy for political ends is the height of bad taste
    Why then did the PM visit the victims and relatives of the Manchester bombing .... er .... during a general election campaign and then not visit the relatives and victims today .... er .... after a general election.

    It's a mystery.
    She may well do later but as the fire is only now beginning to peter out and victims remain unaccounted for the emergency response is still ongoing, shameless for any Corbynistas to try and make political capital out of it
    Hang on a cotton picking minute. The PM visited Manchester when their victims were "unaccounted for" and the "emergency response" was ongoing.

    What the public want is leadership. What the relatives and victims want is an empathetic leader not afraid of a few bad headlines in the Daily Mail and getting the raw views of those most effected.

    In WWII all political leaders and the royal family regularly visited very recent scenes of total devastation. This PM has skulked away as if she has a total aversion to publicly meeting those she governs when the going gets tough. It's pitiful.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,710
    May's losing the support of The Speccie

    https://twitter.com/WillHeaven/status/875339144318373888
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    She's not going to get better at this, is she? She's definitely very like Gordon Brown but without the built up credibility. It's very like the last year or two of Jonah has been compressed into a month.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739

    How short could a contested Tory leadership election be?

    IIRC, the timing is up to the 1922 Committee. They could probably keep it quite short but the problem would be organising the poll of members.
    Would that be needed if there was only one candidate?
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    SF must be due in No. 10
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    edited June 2017
    Hammond reasons pulling out of the Mansion House speech are weird, if not an outright lie. Right?
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,393
    edited June 2017
    PB Scotch threads, a timeline.

    Ooh, that's really going to wind up the Nats!

    Marked absence of Nats, wound up or otherwise.

    Rapidly exhausted display of partial (in both senses) knowledge of Scottish politics.

    Pokes disconsolately at soggy firework.

    Goes back to micro analysing possible Brexit outcomes and Westminster musical chairs.

    Rinse and repeat.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,710
    Jonathan said:

    Hammond reasons pulling out of the Mansion House speech are weird, if not a outright lie. Right?

    No, the whole event has been cancelled by The City of London Corporation.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913

    Jonathan said:

    Hammond reasons pulling out of the Mansion House speech are weird, if not a outright lie. Right?

    No, the whole event has been cancelled by The City of London Corporation.
    Before or after Hammond pulled out?
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    How short could a contested Tory leadership election be?

    IIRC, the timing is up to the 1922 Committee. They could probably keep it quite short but the problem would be organising the poll of members.
    Would that be needed if there was only one candidate?
    No, if there's only one candidate, or if all but one drop out during the MPs' voting rounds, it can all be done very quickly.

    Another uncontested leadership change isn't ideal, but it might be the least bad option in the circumstances.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Jonathan said:

    Hammond reasons pulling out of the Mansion House speech are weird, if not a outright lie. Right?

    No, the whole event has been cancelled by The City of London Corporation.
    Is that the event where they dress up in white bow ties etc? The optics of that under the circumstances would be utterly appalling.
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    I don't know why people keep suggesting SF taking their seats. There's no upside for either Labour or SF. Certainly with the maths as they are. Almost guarantees a five year parliament
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says "properties must be found - requisitioned if necessary" for those left homeless by the #GrenfellTowerFire
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,710

    Jonathan said:

    Hammond reasons pulling out of the Mansion House speech are weird, if not a outright lie. Right?

    No, the whole event has been cancelled by The City of London Corporation.
    Is that the event where they dress up in white bow ties etc? The optics of that under the circumstances would be utterly appalling.
    That's the event
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    PB Scotch threads, a timeline.

    Ooh, that's really going to wind up the Nats!

    Marked absence of Nats, wound up or otherwise.

    Rapidly exhausted display of partial (in both senses) knowledge of Scottish politics.

    Pokes disconsolately at soggy firework.

    Goes back to micro analysing Brexit and Westminster musical chairs.

    Rinse and repeat.

    To be clear, I don't write threads to wind up anyone. They're written to express a viewpoint genuinely held, with supporting evidence.

    Below the line I might be a little freer.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    How short could a contested Tory leadership election be?

    IIRC, the timing is up to the 1922 Committee. They could probably keep it quite short but the problem would be organising the poll of members.
    Would that be needed if there was only one candidate?
    It's not a contested leadership election (what Southam asked about) without one.
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    RobCRobC Posts: 398

    The Mansion House dinner has been cancelled altogether.

    Quite right too. Not the best image to have city big wigs quaffing caviar and champagne while the remains of their fellow citizens are being recovered from the wreckage. The real question is what happens to the food?
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 914
    edited June 2017
    JackW said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Nick Timothy sticks the knife into election guru Sir Lynton Crosby over the Tory poll disaster"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4603966/Nick-Timothy-criticises-Sir-Lynton-Crosby-election.html

    Interesting. It appears that project 'Revive Theresa' is already under way.
    Going well so far.

    https://twitter.com/SimonNRicketts/status/875322620522180608
    She met emergency services who actually coordinate the response as she should as PM managing the response, exploiting this tragedy for political ends is the height of bad taste
    Why then did the PM visit the victims and relatives of the Manchester bombing .... er .... during a general election campaign and then not visit the relatives and victims today .... er .... after a general election.

    It's a mystery.
    She may well do later but as the fire is only now beginning to peter out and victims remain unaccounted for the emergency response is still ongoing, shameless for any Corbynistas to try and make political capital out of it
    Hang on a cotton picking minute. The PM visited Manchester when their victims were "unaccounted for" and the "emergency response" was ongoing.

    What the public want is leadership. What the relatives and victims want is an empathetic leader not afraid of a few bad headlines in the Daily Mail and getting the raw views of those most effected.

    In WWII all political leaders and the royal family regularly visited very recent scenes of total devastation. This PM has skulked away as if she has a total aversion to publicly meeting those she governs when the going gets tough. It's pitiful.
    But she is just the caretaker - she has switched off and is just waiting to go. I thought would tell us in September to let the candidates impress (or not) conference, but think she will announce by end of June.
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    I don't know why people keep suggesting SF taking their seats. There's no upside for either Labour or SF. Certainly with the maths as they are. Almost guarantees a five year parliament

    Actually I'm wrong. It just means there's no chance of an election coming at a good time for Labour.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,288

    How short could a contested Tory leadership election be?

    IIRC, the timing is up to the 1922 Committee. They could probably keep it quite short but the problem would be organising the poll of members.
    Would that be needed if there was only one candidate?
    No, if there's only one candidate, or if all but one drop out during the MPs' voting rounds, it can all be done very quickly.

    Another uncontested leadership change isn't ideal, but it might be the least bad option in the circumstances.
    If she appointed Hammond as acting PM and pre-announced her resignation as party leader on a future date, would anyone dare challenge him?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says "properties must be found - requisitioned if necessary" for those left homeless by the #GrenfellTowerFire

    How many is he taking in ?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    If she appointed Hammond as acting PM and pre-announced her resignation as party leader on a future date, would anyone dare challenge him?

    One can imagine Boris positioning himself behind the scrum in case the ball appeared.
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    PB Scotch threads, a timeline.

    Ooh, that's really going to wind up the Nats!

    Marked absence of Nats, wound up or otherwise.

    Rapidly exhausted display of partial (in both senses) knowledge of Scottish politics.

    Pokes disconsolately at soggy firework.

    Goes back to micro analysing possible Brexit outcomes and Westminster musical chairs.

    Rinse and repeat.

    To be honest it is the same when I post NI threads normally because most posters know more about Westminster than the smaller nations. The only reason NI has become interesting is the DUP dynamic.

    no need to get narky about it. But the thread header is right imho. Sturgeon seems to be in denial as to her precarious position.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,225
    JackW said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Nick Timothy sticks the knife into election guru Sir Lynton Crosby over the Tory poll disaster"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4603966/Nick-Timothy-criticises-Sir-Lynton-Crosby-election.html

    Interesting. It appears that project 'Revive Theresa' is already under way.
    Going well so far.

    https://twitter.com/SimonNRicketts/status/875322620522180608
    She met emergency services who actually coordinate the response as she should as PM managing the response, exploiting this tragedy for political ends is the height of bad taste
    Why then did the PM visit the victims and relatives of the Manchester bombing .... er .... during a general election campaign and then not visit the relatives and victims today .... er .... after a general election.

    It's a mystery.
    She may well do later but as the fire is only now beginning to peter out and victims remain unaccounted for the emergency response is still ongoing, shameless for any Corbynistas to try and make political capital out of it
    Hang on a cotton picking minute. The PM visited Manchester when their victims were "unaccounted for" and the "emergency response" was ongoing.

    What the public want is leadership. What the relatives and victims want is an empathetic leader not afraid of a few bad headlines in the Daily Mail and getting the raw views of those most effected.

    In WWII all political leaders and the royal family regularly visited very recent scenes of total devastation. This PM has skulked away as if she has a total aversion to publicly meeting those she governs when the going gets tough. It's pitiful.
    Her first focus must be the emergency services given the situation is still ongoing not staging a photo op a la the Dear Leader
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    edited June 2017
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says "properties must be found - requisitioned if necessary" for those left homeless by the #GrenfellTowerFire

    Scott, I'd give up if I were you. St. Jeremy (or is JC someone greater?) can do no wrong. Every pronouncement is great.

    His acolyte, the venerable John Mac, rightfully wants to overthrow the party democratically voted for, by mass civil unrest.

    edit missed out a vital comma :)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,034

    I don't know why people keep suggesting SF taking their seats. There's no upside for either Labour or SF. Certainly with the maths as they are. Almost guarantees a five year parliament

    The upside with car crash Brexit is potentially massive for Sinn Fein.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    Kensington Palace is pretty close and not used for much.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,710
    Jonathan said:

    Kensington Palace is pretty close and not used for much.

    That appeals to my republican tendencies.
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    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?

    So this last day or so we seem to have had McDonnell advocating an insurrection and Corbyn trying to ignore property rights. They are lucky nobody notices.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Jonathan said:

    Kensington Palace is pretty close and not used for much.

    i feel sure you could take in few to your Sussex mansion..
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Re conservatives and DUP. No deal is better than a bad deal?

    Vastly better. Call the DUP bluff.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Some PB Tories wish the PM to stay for a few years to cover the BREXIT negotiations and provide an element of political stability that they say would be absent if a new leadership election occurred immediately.

    After this past week do they think that now? We have a Prime Minister in office but not in power, a government in office but not in power and completely dependent on the whims of the DUP. I would say we almost certainly wouldn't be able to tell the difference if a two month interregnum took place and a new PM took office.

    On May 7, 1940, the British Conservative MP, Leo Amery, uttered these words at Neville Chamberlain during a House of Commons debate on the British-French expedition in Norway that had ended in failure. Amery repeated Oliver Cromwell’s (paraphrased) words on April 20, 1653, to a Parliament attempting to remain after it had voted to dissolve itself:

    “You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!”

    Prime Minister May ... go, just go.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @HarrietHarman: Loads of empty flats (land banks) in Kensington. @jeremycorbyn right that govt should requisition to rehouse Grenfell survivors
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    RobC said:

    The Mansion House dinner has been cancelled altogether.

    Quite right too. Not the best image to have city big wigs quaffing caviar and champagne while the remains of their fellow citizens are being recovered from the wreckage. The real question is what happens to the food?
    If there is any Margaux that's been opened, I'll have a few bottles as no doubt would Mr Nabavi
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    edited June 2017
    Jonathan said:

    Kensington Palace is pretty close and not used for much.

    Great idea. Put the royals' vast holdings to some decent use for a change.
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    Pulpstar said:

    I don't know why people keep suggesting SF taking their seats. There's no upside for either Labour or SF. Certainly with the maths as they are. Almost guarantees a five year parliament

    The upside with car crash Brexit is potentially massive for Sinn Fein.
    Radio Ulster visited West Belfast and every single person interviewed said they would never support SF taking their seats.
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    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Corbyn isn't doing it for the optics. He just quite simply cares.
    Which is precisely why the optics are great for him.

    Perhaps Jezza should have gone and visited the families of the victims of IRA bombings.

    I'm sure May cares about the victims and families of the fire too.
    Yes, but that isn't the situation right now. People are focussed rightly or wrongly on the Tories being in favour of slum landlords and against ordinary decent people.
    That is the perception. Expect Tory support to head to 35ish next poll.
    Spot on
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,150
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says "properties must be found - requisitioned if necessary" for those left homeless by the #GrenfellTowerFire

    How many is he taking in ?
    About 40% at the last count.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Scott_P said:

    @HarrietHarman: Loads of empty flats (land banks) in Kensington. @jeremycorbyn right that govt should requisition to rehouse Grenfell survivors

    Using what powers, I wonder?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,034

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't know why people keep suggesting SF taking their seats. There's no upside for either Labour or SF. Certainly with the maths as they are. Almost guarantees a five year parliament

    The upside with car crash Brexit is potentially massive for Sinn Fein.
    Radio Ulster visited West Belfast and every single person interviewed said they would never support SF taking their seats.
    Aye, even if they wanted to - they could not do so.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Scott_P said:

    @HarrietHarman: Loads of empty flats (land banks) in Kensington. @jeremycorbyn right that govt should requisition to rehouse Grenfell survivors

    Seriously WTF: The governement should not be allowed to override property rights. Even if for a good cause.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Scott_P said:

    @HarrietHarman: Loads of empty flats (land banks) in Kensington. @jeremycorbyn right that govt should requisition to rehouse Grenfell survivors

    Using what powers, I wonder?
    I assume she thinks the Court of public opinion has the rights to seize property...
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,393

    PB Scotch threads, a timeline.

    Ooh, that's really going to wind up the Nats!

    Marked absence of Nats, wound up or otherwise.

    Rapidly exhausted display of partial (in both senses) knowledge of Scottish politics.

    Pokes disconsolately at soggy firework.

    Goes back to micro analysing possible Brexit outcomes and Westminster musical chairs.

    Rinse and repeat.

    To be honest it is the same when I post NI threads normally because most posters know more about Westminster than the smaller nations. The only reason NI has become interesting is the DUP dynamic.

    no need to get narky about it. But the thread header is right imho. Sturgeon seems to be in denial as to her precarious position.
    Thanks for the advice. My cup runneth over with the stuff.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,393
    Chris said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says "properties must be found - requisitioned if necessary" for those left homeless by the #GrenfellTowerFire

    How many is he taking in ?
    About 40% at the last count.
    VG, gold star!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,034
    edited June 2017
    London property crash incoming when Corbyn gets in.
    Foreign investors will lose all confidence when they start paying attention.
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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038

    GIN1138 said:


    Does this maybe imply there could still be a way for Con to salvage this in a second election if they bin May and get a leader who is likable and who the public would trust with Brexit?

    Yes very much so. The issue has become May and her personality, her dithering on some issues and failure to move on others. It is all around May.

    I am not saying that it will by any means solve all the problems but when you have people like me who are instinctively anti-Corbyn thinking that May is not much better then you surely have to say that things will be better if she is gone. Plus that is the narrative that has built up.
    I wonder if the hold-up in the DUP talks is because they'd prefer May to step down? After all, propping up the government could have a cost for them too.

    Of course the DUP can't force her to step down, but if they pull out of the talks she might have to anyway.
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    Scott_P said:

    @HarrietHarman: Loads of empty flats (land banks) in Kensington. @jeremycorbyn right that govt should requisition to rehouse Grenfell survivors

    Lol! Are we living in an authoritarian regime yet? We will be when Corbyn and these muppets get in.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,288

    Scott_P said:

    @HarrietHarman: Loads of empty flats (land banks) in Kensington. @jeremycorbyn right that govt should requisition to rehouse Grenfell survivors

    Using what powers, I wonder?
    You say De Keyser; I say De Keyser.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    This is the extremely dangerous side of what could happen if labour ever got into power. The loony left are just lurking below the surface.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987

    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?

    So this last day or so we seem to have had McDonnell advocating an insurrection and Corbyn trying to ignore property rights. They are lucky nobody notices.

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Pulpstar said:

    London property crash incoming when Corbyn gets in.

    We knew that already. Not just London, of course.

    (And no, this isn't good news for those wanting to buy property, because the market would just seize up altogether).
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,034

    This is the extremely dangerous side of what could happen if labour ever got into power. The loony left are just lurking below the surface.

    Below ?
    They're in charge !
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    This is the extremely dangerous side of what could happen if labour ever got into power. The loony left are just lurking below the surface.

    https://twitter.com/johnrentoul/status/875344478663475200
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,034
    edited June 2017

    Pulpstar said:

    London property crash incoming when Corbyn gets in.

    We knew that already. Not just London, of course.

    (And no, this isn't good news for those wanting to buy property, because the market would just seize up altogether).
    Well I'll be putting my house on the market for 100-105 shortly. Just some drive weeding to do ^^;
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    This is the extremely dangerous side of what could happen if labour ever got into power. The loony left are just lurking below the surface.

    Come the revolution I wonder who will be the Anastasia of the Royal Family.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?

    So this last day or so we seem to have had McDonnell advocating an insurrection and Corbyn trying to ignore property rights. They are lucky nobody notices.

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

    SO, we have the rule of law for a F***ING REASON. Yes I would defend property rights for everyone.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Jonathan said:

    Hammond reasons pulling out of the Mansion House speech are weird, if not a outright lie. Right?

    No, the whole event has been cancelled by The City of London Corporation.
    Is that the event where they dress up in white bow ties etc? The optics of that under the circumstances would be utterly appalling.
    Nonsense. Next week we will have the State Opening of Parliament and also Royal Ascot: far more dressing up and live on telly. It looks like the City cancelled the Mansion House speech after and because the Chancellor withdrew.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    nunu said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    People criticised Churchills reaction to the great smog in London in 1952.
    I suspect no matter what she does at this point it will be wrong. Same happened to Brown when he lost all credibility, no matter what he did he was made fun of.
    Yes I agree, however there are some leaders who can change the narrative and remain popular, Bill Clinton for example.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Jonathan said:

    Hammond reasons pulling out of the Mansion House speech are weird, if not a outright lie. Right?

    No, the whole event has been cancelled by The City of London Corporation.
    Is that the event where they dress up in white bow ties etc? The optics of that under the circumstances would be utterly appalling.
    That's the event
    Quite right to cancel it then.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    The tories are getting themselves into a situation that they are going to have to find a way to suspend the negotiations until things are reslved as to who and what the government are. The only viable way is to rescind article 50 rather than rely on the 27 agreeing an extension. Now what follows next is anybodies guess
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

    Except the narrative Corbyn is hoping to control is to abandon the rule of law.

    While I agree with you in this situation defending property rights is unpleasant and unpopular, but that doesn't make it the wrong thing to do
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,288

    (And no, this isn't good news for those wanting to buy property, because the market would just seize up altogether).

    I'm not sure I agree with that. Transaction volumes have been low ever since the financial crisis because price stickiness and stimulus measures have kept prices above a normal clearing level. It is true to say that if prices started falling then there isn't much natural support until they come down *a lot*, but at some point the market would spring into life.
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    RobCRobC Posts: 398
    JackW said:

    Some PB Tories wish the PM to stay for a few years to cover the BREXIT negotiations and provide an element of political stability that they say would be absent if a new leadership election occurred immediately.

    After this past week do they think that now? We have a Prime Minister in office but not in power, a government in office but not in power and completely dependent on the whims of the DUP. I would say we almost certainly wouldn't be able to tell the difference if a two month interregnum took place and a new PM took office.

    On May 7, 1940, the British Conservative MP, Leo Amery, uttered these words at Neville Chamberlain during a House of Commons debate on the British-French expedition in Norway that had ended in failure. Amery repeated Oliver Cromwell’s (paraphrased) words on April 20, 1653, to a Parliament attempting to remain after it had voted to dissolve itself:

    “You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!”

    Prime Minister May ... go, just go.

    Her inherent crapness shows no sign of abating now the GE is out of the way. However it is now preferably or if not two years time in my betting book. Her leaving in the middle of negotiations would be shambolic.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Funny how the left is suddenly in favour of dangerous reckless populism if it's in their favour....
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited June 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Utterly astonishing.

    Books are going to be written about this.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2017

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities?

    Yes, of course. Wouldn't you, or have you abandoned principles such as the rule of law and also proportionate responses to problems? We are talking about housing a hundred families in a city of millions. This is a horrendous tragedy, but it's not something requiring declaration of a state of emergency under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004.

    People need to get a grip.

    (Or maybe they have a grip and are just playing cynical and heartless politics?)
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited June 2017
    nichomar said:

    The tories are getting themselves into a situation that they are going to have to find a way to suspend the negotiations until things are reslved as to who and what the government are. The only viable way is to rescind article 50 rather than rely on the 27 agreeing an extension. Now what follows next is anybodies guess

    Rescinding requires the agreement of the 27. Verhofstadt has made clear that would involve , at least, the loss of any perceived perks we had.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987

    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?

    So this last day or so we seem to have had McDonnell advocating an insurrection and Corbyn trying to ignore property rights. They are lucky nobody notices.

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

    SO, we have the rule of law for a F***ING REASON. Yes I would defend property rights for everyone.

    I know - I am all for property rights. But the Tories are allowing Corbyn to create the narrative and set the terms of the debate - and it is not your property or my property or anyone else's occupied property that he is talking about, but the ones owned by absentee multi-millionaires, who live abroad and keep their money offshore instead of paying tax.

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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,222
    Scott_P said:

    This is the extremely dangerous side of what could happen if labour ever got into power. The loony left are just lurking below the surface.

    https://twitter.com/johnrentoul/status/875344478663475200
    Oh, I'm sure Corbyn has lost Jewish votes for Labour. But thankfully for them there aren't all that many Jews in this country. Plenty of other faiths, mind.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Our newly elected Labour MP just Tweeted this. I wonder if other Labour MPs are doing the same:
    https://twitter.com/MattWestern_/status/875335171456761856

    I'd imagine every local paper in the land has already contacted MPs and councils to ask about similar blocks.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,034
    Pong said:

    Scott_P said:
    Utterly astonishing.

    Books are going to be written about this.
    That graph needs to be distributed to every single Tory who is even considering abstaining on the Queens speech.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    It's like Lammy immediatly saying 'people' should be arrested.

    No, we should have an investigation, and if there is evidence of wrongdoing, then people should be arrested.

    To have the labour party suddenly decending into dangerous popularism becuase they had a whiff of success should worry every sensible individual.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Chris said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says "properties must be found - requisitioned if necessary" for those left homeless by the #GrenfellTowerFire

    How many is he taking in ?
    About 40% at the last count.
    and rising by the latest survation opinion poll.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities?

    Yes, of course. Wouldn't you, or have you abandoned principles such as the rule of law and also proportionate responses to problems? We are talking about housing a hundred families in a city of millions. This is a horrendous tragedy, but it's not something requiring declaration of a state of emergency under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004.

    People need to get a grip.

    (Or maybe they have a grip and are just playing cynical and heartless politics?)

    I am not suggesting it happen. I am saying that Corbyn is being left to set the narrative. I am really surprised that the Tories cannot see the danger in this.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?

    So this last day or so we seem to have had McDonnell advocating an insurrection and Corbyn trying to ignore property rights. They are lucky nobody notices.

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

    SO, we have the rule of law for a F***ING REASON. Yes I would defend property rights for everyone.

    I know - I am all for property rights. But the Tories are allowing Corbyn to create the narrative and set the terms of the debate - and it is not your property or my property or anyone else's occupied property that he is talking about, but the ones owned by absentee multi-millionaires, who live abroad and keep their money offshore instead of paying tax.

    Because they're rich it's ok to act illegally against them?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    This is the extremely dangerous side of what could happen if labour ever got into power. The loony left are just lurking below the surface.

    As opposed to the centre right who are providing the nation with a Prime Minister in name only and a "government" lurking in the shadows with the DUP neither of whom has a mandate to govern.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987
    Scott_P said:

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

    Except the narrative Corbyn is hoping to control is to abandon the rule of law.

    While I agree with you in this situation defending property rights is unpleasant and unpopular, but that doesn't make it the wrong thing to do

    Of course they have to be defended. Who on the Tory side is going to do it? And, more important, in a way that people can relate to.

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    I'm not sure I agree with that. Transaction volumes have been low ever since the financial crisis because price stickiness and stimulus measures have kept prices above a normal clearing level. It is true to say that if prices started falling then there isn't much natural support until they come down *a lot*, but at some point the market would spring into life.

    The experience in previous house price collapses is simply that owners stay put and wait for the good times to return, waiting years if necessary. If they have a mortgage they can't move anyway. So the only sales you get are forced sales from repossessions and from those who are desperate - which are usually the lowest-quality homes.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,288

    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?

    So this last day or so we seem to have had McDonnell advocating an insurrection and Corbyn trying to ignore property rights. They are lucky nobody notices.

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

    SO, we have the rule of law for a F***ING REASON. Yes I would defend property rights for everyone.

    I know - I am all for property rights. But the Tories are allowing Corbyn to create the narrative and set the terms of the debate - and it is not your property or my property or anyone else's occupied property that he is talking about, but the ones owned by absentee multi-millionaires, who live abroad and keep their money offshore instead of paying tax.

    Because they're rich it's ok to act illegally against them?
    Squatters' rights only seem to apply in Downing Street these days.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,710

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
This discussion has been closed.