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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The biggest loser. How Nicola Sturgeon did even worse than TMa

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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    RobC said:

    JackW said:

    Some PB Tories wish the PM to stay for a few years to cover the BREXIT negotiations and provide an element of political stability that they say would be absent if a new leadership election occurred immediately.

    After this past week do they think that now? We have a Prime Minister in office but not in power, a government in office but not in power and completely dependent on the whims of the DUP. I would say we almost certainly wouldn't be able to tell the difference if a two month interregnum took place and a new PM took office.

    On May 7, 1940, the British Conservative MP, Leo Amery, uttered these words at Neville Chamberlain during a House of Commons debate on the British-French expedition in Norway that had ended in failure. Amery repeated Oliver Cromwell’s (paraphrased) words on April 20, 1653, to a Parliament attempting to remain after it had voted to dissolve itself:

    “You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!”

    Prime Minister May ... go, just go.

    Her inherent crapness shows no sign of abating now the GE is out of the way. However it is now preferably or if not two years time in my betting book. Her leaving in the middle of negotiations would be shambolic.
    They haven't started yet. Get this wibbling bufooness out before they start, or revoke Article 50. May is a laughing stock and in no fit state to deal with our European partners
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?

    So this last day or so we seem to have had McDonnell advocating an insurrection and Corbyn trying to ignore property rights. They are lucky nobody notices.

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

    SO, we have the rule of law for a F***ING REASON. Yes I would defend property rights for everyone.

    I know - I am all for property rights. But the Tories are allowing Corbyn to create the narrative and set the terms of the debate - and it is not your property or my property or anyone else's occupied property that he is talking about, but the ones owned by absentee multi-millionaires, who live abroad and keep their money offshore instead of paying tax.

    Because they're rich it's ok to act illegally against them?
    Lots of properties were requisitioned in WW2 for the greater good of the nation as a whole .
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    edited June 2017
    Blue_rog said:

    Labour ...... warm and fluffy.

    Unless you're Jewish/"Tory scum"/a "Tory cunt" etc.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Corbyn isn't doing it for the optics. He just quite simply cares.
    Which is precisely why the optics are great for him.

    Nah. He cares about his ideology.
    Individuals are expendable for the greater good in pursuing Marxist ideology.
    Hence the "red flag" with the blood of the martyred dead.
    I'm as concerned about Corbyn as you. But I can see how this all looks to the wider public - not good, not good at all for the Tories.
    The 42% who voted Tory will not be swayed by a stage managed Corbyn photo op not that there is likely to be another election for yeats now anyway despite Corbyn's bleating
    Jesus, open your eyes.
    To a stage managed Corbyn photo op they are already open
    If Corbyn's is stage managed how is May's not? They are both there, both visiting people, except she is not visiting residents and he is. Hers is also stage managed in that case, just more poorly.
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 914
    Leafleting in reasonably middle income areas during the election was struck by how many properties appeared to be unoccupied. Some almost derelict but other with some furniture in but obviously not lived in. Possibly 4-5%
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    As I was saying!!

    Tory support:

    A mile wide, and an inch deep.

    QED
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,384
    When will tim get on board the Jezza bus?

    https://twitter.com/GOsborneGenius/status/875347435886981121
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?

    So this last day or so we seem to have had McDonnell advocating an insurrection and Corbyn trying to ignore property rights. They are lucky nobody notices.

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

    SO, we have the rule of law for a F***ING REASON. Yes I would defend property rights for everyone.

    I know - I am all for property rights. But the Tories are allowing Corbyn to create the narrative and set the terms of the debate - and it is not your property or my property or anyone else's occupied property that he is talking about, but the ones owned by absentee multi-millionaires, who live abroad and keep their money offshore instead of paying tax.

    Because they're rich it's ok to act illegally against them?

    I am not sure why you are arguing with me. I am not the one suggesting it. I am the one observing that it will resonate unless the Tories can find a convincing, engaging counter-argument. This is a politics website and so I make no excuse for talking through the politics. The common consensus on here was that the Manchester and London attacks would play into the Tories' hands because they are the party of law, order and security, and because of Corbyn's past. Labour realised that very quickly and countered. I am just saying that yesterday's tragedy, its setting and its context are tailor-made for Corbyn and his message. If the Tories do not begin to grasp that soon it is going to cost them.

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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850

    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?

    So this last day or so we seem to have had McDonnell advocating an insurrection and Corbyn trying to ignore property rights. They are lucky nobody notices.

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

    SO, we have the rule of law for a F***ING REASON. Yes I would defend property rights for everyone.

    I know - I am all for property rights. But the Tories are allowing Corbyn to create the narrative and set the terms of the debate - and it is not your property or my property or anyone else's occupied property that he is talking about, but the ones owned by absentee multi-millionaires, who live abroad and keep their money offshore instead of paying tax.

    Because they're rich it's ok to act illegally against them?
    Lots of properties were requisitioned in WW2 for the greater good of the nation as a whole .
    Are we just off the back of a 6-year world war?

    No, a tower block has been on fire.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    I thought it was the Tories who wanted to nick your house, seems like Corbyn is quite happy to as well.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Icarus said:

    Leafleting in reasonably middle income areas during the election was struck by how many properties appeared to be unoccupied. Some almost derelict but other with some furniture in but obviously not lived in. Possibly 4-5%

    Could well be people which are in care, or people which have passed awaw.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/15/tory-election-research-found-boris-johnson-was-deeply-divisive

    This may mean MPs will block Boris from the final two - he may even not stand if he thinks he has no chance.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities?

    Yes, of course. Wouldn't you, or have you abandoned principles such as the rule of law and also proportionate responses to problems? We are talking about housing a hundred families in a city of millions. This is a horrendous tragedy, but it's not something requiring declaration of a state of emergency under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004.

    People need to get a grip.

    (Or maybe they have a grip and are just playing cynical and heartless politics?)

    I am not suggesting it happen. I am saying that Corbyn is being left to set the narrative. I am really surprised that the Tories cannot see the danger in this.
    Could have been nipped in bud if she had gone to speak to the residents and told them a task force was in place working at providing acceptable homes by the middle of next week.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
    The scales have dropped from the publics eyes. And, she is personally taking the blame for the current impasse. Rightly so. If the Tories have even a flake of backbone they will tell her she is gone this week and that she will stay as PM until her successor is appointed. And do as she is told by the party. The candidates must make clear if they will seek a mandate from the electorate, and when and the party machinery should be turned full square on Corbyn and the Labour leadership.
    I expect them to do none of this. Because they are useless and entitled. They will be destroyed in the next election and they have nobody but themselves to blame.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?

    So this last day or so we seem to have had McDonnell advocating an insurrection and Corbyn trying to ignore property rights. They are lucky nobody notices.

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

    SO, we have the rule of law for a F***ING REASON. Yes I would defend property rights for everyone.

    I know - I am all for property rights. But the Tories are allowing Corbyn to create the narrative and set the terms of the debate - and it is not your property or my property or anyone else's occupied property that he is talking about, but the ones owned by absentee multi-millionaires, who live abroad and keep their money offshore instead of paying tax.

    Because they're rich it's ok to act illegally against them?

    I am not sure why you are arguing with me. I am not the one suggesting it. I am the one observing that it will resonate unless the Tories can find a convincing, engaging counter-argument. This is a politics website and so I make no excuse for talking through the politics. The common consensus on here was that the Manchester and London attacks would play into the Tories' hands because they are the party of law, order and security, and because of Corbyn's past. Labour realised that very quickly and countered. I am just saying that yesterday's tragedy, its setting and its context are tailor-made for Corbyn and his message. If the Tories do not begin to grasp that soon it is going to cost them.

    This is true.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.

  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities?

    Yes, of course. Wouldn't you, or have you abandoned principles such as the rule of law and also proportionate responses to problems? We are talking about housing a hundred families in a city of millions. This is a horrendous tragedy, but it's not something requiring declaration of a state of emergency under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004.

    People need to get a grip.

    (Or maybe they have a grip and are just playing cynical and heartless politics?)
    If there are problems with re-housing the victims and relatives then the government will take the full blame. There are government/armed forces facilities in the Greater London area that can be made available.

    Conservatives better hope a minister, with a few brain cells, is ahead of the game. No waffle or excuses. Get a bloody grip.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    edited June 2017
    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Tories need to move fast here because if Corbyn becoming PM stops being this outrageous idea and starts being a normal and almost obvious choice, they are gone.
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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    felix said:

    The Scotcon result was the only great bright spot of election night for me. Long-term though Scotlab will benefit most from any further weakening of the Nat brand. Predicting anything these days is nigh on impossible but the early signs shown by Corbyn's failure to embrace all of the Parliamentary party in his reshuffle suggests plenty of obstacles in the way yet of much greater success for Labour in the UK. They have a poll boost for now and I expect that to last a while but the Tory brand is also very resilient which a number of posters on here over the past few days have completely forgotten.

    One of the oddest features of the overall result was the fact that even with a disastrous campaign the Tories gained 5+%.What they need soonish is a good leader and some interesting policies. I do wish Cameron and Osborne were back... or failing that some new blood as there is nothing in the current Cabinet to inspire.

    The campaign was disastrous. They went into it on 43% and came out of it on 43%. (Meanwhile Labour went into it on 25% and came out of it on 40%.) The Tories gained compared to 2015, but that had happened already as some Labour voters switched because of Corbyn and (more significantly) Kippers switched after the referendum.

    The main miscalculation the Tories made in calling the election, it seems to me, was discounting (or not even countenancing?) the idea that the opposition could consolidate. The Tories were always going to get 43%, which sounds like a winning score, but that leaves 57% for other parties. If you've killed the LibDems and Ukip, who else except Labour is the rational leftish voter going to vote for?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,949
    Scott_P said:
    I think it's safe to say the general election didn't really work out for Theresa...
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    I thought it was the Tories who wanted to nick your house, seems like Corbyn is quite happy to as well.

    At least the Cons would wait until your were dead.

    Imagine using a tragedy to further class war.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/15/tory-election-research-found-boris-johnson-was-deeply-divisive

    This may mean MPs will block Boris from the final two - he may even not stand if he thinks he has no chance.

    You can be sure that in a future GE, the Cons will be pushing for 1 on 1 leaders debates - probably 5 of them.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Jim Pickard‏ @PickardJE 6 mins6 minutes ago

    Corbyn says Kensington is a "tale of two cities" and says properties should be made available - "requisitioned if necessary" - for victims.


    Errrr...what?

    So this last day or so we seem to have had McDonnell advocating an insurrection and Corbyn trying to ignore property rights. They are lucky nobody notices.

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities? Someone on the Tory side needs to get a grip here or Corbyn is going to take full control of the narrative.

    SO, we have the rule of law for a F***ING REASON. Yes I would defend property rights for everyone.

    I know - I am all for property rights. But the Tories are allowing Corbyn to create the narrative and set the terms of the debate - and it is not your property or my property or anyone else's occupied property that he is talking about, but the ones owned by absentee multi-millionaires, who live abroad and keep their money offshore instead of paying tax.

    Because they're rich it's ok to act illegally against them?
    Lots of properties were requisitioned in WW2 for the greater good of the nation as a whole .
    Are we just off the back of a 6-year world war?

    No, a tower block has been on fire.
    Go tell that to the PM's "advisers" but most importantly to the victims and relatives who have lost everything.

    If the government is unable to act appropriately and decisively for a "tower block (that) has been on fire" then advise us what may be expected of them from an even greater emergency of cataclysmic proportions?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    It's when, not if. May is finished. So who? Boris is immensely popular among Tories but he is also very polarising. What votes would he win back that May lost?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/15/tory-election-research-found-boris-johnson-was-deeply-divisive
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    MORE POLLS NEEDED
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    JackW said:

    Right now, as people have been made homeless by this tragedy would you really want to be defending the property rights of absentee multi-millionaires who have only bought these houses and flats as investment opportunities?

    Yes, of course. Wouldn't you, or have you abandoned principles such as the rule of law and also proportionate responses to problems? We are talking about housing a hundred families in a city of millions. This is a horrendous tragedy, but it's not something requiring declaration of a state of emergency under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004.

    People need to get a grip.

    (Or maybe they have a grip and are just playing cynical and heartless politics?)
    If there are problems with re-housing the victims and relatives then the government will take the full blame. There are government/armed forces facilities in the Greater London area that can be made available.

    Conservatives better hope a minister, with a few brain cells, is ahead of the game. No waffle or excuses. Get a bloody grip.

    Precisely. Or give a revolutionary socialist such a head of steam he will be in Downing Street by the end of the year.

  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    TGOHF said:

    I thought it was the Tories who wanted to nick your house, seems like Corbyn is quite happy to as well.

    At least the Cons would wait until your were dead.

    Imagine using a tragedy to further class war.
    Isn't it just temporary emergency accommodation?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2017
    "Farron’s sideswipe at the ethos of the party he led was truly remarkable
    Paul Goodman"

    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/06/farrons-sideswipe-at-the-ethos-of-the-party-he-led-was-truly-remarkable.html
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    I thought it was the Tories who wanted to nick your house, seems like Corbyn is quite happy to as well.

    At least the Cons would wait until your were dead.

    Imagine using a tragedy to further class war.
    Isn't it just temporary emergency accommodation?
    How many is Jezza taking in to his house ?

    Same amount as the number of refugees Yvette took in I'd guess.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,456
    I have little doubt that Theresa May will have to stand down during the summer recess and that a new leader needs to be in place by the Autumn.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    It's when, not if. May is finished. So who? Boris is immensely popular among Tories but he is also very polarising. What votes would he win back that May lost?

    The priority now is not to win votes, but to get a functioning government again which won't make blunder after blunder.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    A few of us feel vindicated on that - if on little else that has happened over the last week.

    Having been quoted in Private Eye admitting that I got huge amounts wrong, I'm taking every opportunity on the other side of the fence that I can get for the while.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
    The scales have dropped from the publics eyes. And, she is personally taking the blame for the current impasse. Rightly so. If the Tories have even a flake of backbone they will tell her she is gone this week and that she will stay as PM until her successor is appointed. And do as she is told by the party. The candidates must make clear if they will seek a mandate from the electorate, and when and the party machinery should be turned full square on Corbyn and the Labour leadership.
    I expect them to do none of this. Because they are useless and entitled. They will be destroyed in the next election and they have nobody but themselves to blame.
    So your suggestion is May stays as caretaker, the Tories have a leadership election and then go to the country for another GE. That would take 3 months I guess.
    What happens to the Brexit negotiations and the ticking clock in the meantime?
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,339
    The Tories need to anoint Boris. Forget about about these dull-but-competent types - when the competent bit fades they're left naked. No, anoint Boris and do it now. If nothing else, he'll provide a bit of light relief for a country desperately in need of cheering up.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Something quite fundamental is happening in this country, and it all stems from 2008 and the failure of the establishment to regulate itself or punish itself for the mess it created. The hoarding of wealth by the elite, and the theft of public money by the same is beginning to become a recruiting sergeant for very left wing alternatives. In addition to this, we have all allowed a society to develop in which fame and fortune can be instantly obtained via text vote on reality shows or by the ability to kick a pigs bladder in a vague 20 degree arc. There's little drive to be successful further than that meaning 'celebrity' of the worst z list type. On the one hand, desire for accumulation of wealth and things above all else and the associated exposure to media that can go with it or facilitate it, and on the other the mugging off of public money to private, corporate hands.
    Then you have those that look upon the world and see that they have so little compared to their peers due to circumstance and dumb luck. It's a febrile powder keg. It's the idle wealth of the 20s and 30s set against the toil of the working man.
    Unsure where things will tip out but I can see wealth being replaced by striving, public access to technology replacing possessions, outcomes being judged on their public effect not how much money they generate. Intolerance of wealth, obscene wealth, will be a thing and will remain a thing.
    The times they are a changing.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    TGOHF said:

    I thought it was the Tories who wanted to nick your house, seems like Corbyn is quite happy to as well.

    At least the Cons would wait until your were dead.

    Imagine using a tragedy to further class war.
    Wait until corbyn/labour silent asylum policy gets put into action,your house is needed.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    TGOHF said:

    I thought it was the Tories who wanted to nick your house, seems like Corbyn is quite happy to as well.

    At least the Cons would wait until your were dead.

    Imagine using a tragedy to further class war.
    Isn't it just temporary emergency accommodation?
    Oh please... once a family gets into a multimillion pound house, how long before they get 'granted' a indefinite period to stay...

    'Oh evil rich people turfing out poor homeless onto the street'...Corbyn would climax himself over those headlines

    They should be provided emergency accomodation but not in others houses against their rights.
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    RobCRobC Posts: 398

    I have little doubt that Theresa May will have to stand down during the summer recess and that a new leader needs to be in place by the Autumn.

    It's when, not if. May is finished. So who? Boris is immensely popular among Tories but he is also very polarising. What votes would he win back that May lost?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/15/tory-election-research-found-boris-johnson-was-deeply-divisive

    Not the ludicrous Boris but someone who agrees with a soft Brexit that can carry the country. Hammond or Rudd are the obvious alternatives. Rudd apparently isn't bothered by the marginality of her seat.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
    The scales have dropped from the publics eyes. And, she is personally taking the blame for the current impasse. Rightly so. If the Tories have even a flake of backbone they will tell her she is gone this week and that she will stay as PM until her successor is appointed. And do as she is told by the party. The candidates must make clear if they will seek a mandate from the electorate, and when and the party machinery should be turned full square on Corbyn and the Labour leadership.
    I expect them to do none of this. Because they are useless and entitled. They will be destroyed in the next election and they have nobody but themselves to blame.
    So your suggestion is May stays as caretaker, the Tories have a leadership election and then go to the country for another GE. That would take 3 months I guess.
    What happens to the Brexit negotiations and the ticking clock in the meantime?
    I'm not sure. I'm not sure what happens to it if they don't take that course. I'd assume David Davis goes into negotiations and is replaced if the Tories lose the ensuing GE by a Labour delegation. There's not really any other option.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2017

    Something quite fundamental is happening in this country, and it all stems from 2008 and the failure of the establishment to regulate itself or punish itself for the mess it created. The hoarding of wealth by the elite, and the theft of public money by the same is beginning to become a recruiting sergeant for very left wing alternatives. In addition to this, we have all allowed a society to develop in which fame and fortune can be instantly obtained via text vote on reality shows or by the ability to kick a pigs bladder in a vague 20 degree arc. There's little drive to be successful further than that meaning 'celebrity' of the worst z list type. On the one hand, desire for accumulation of wealth and things above all else and the associated exposure to media that can go with it or facilitate it, and on the other the mugging off of public money to private, corporate hands.
    Then you have those that look upon the world and see that they have so little compared to their peers due to circumstance and dumb luck. It's a febrile powder keg. It's the idle wealth of the 20s and 30s set against the toil of the working man.
    Unsure where things will tip out but I can see wealth being replaced by striving, public access to technology replacing possessions, outcomes being judged on their public effect not how much money they generate. Intolerance of wealth, obscene wealth, will be a thing and will remain a thing.
    The times they are a changing.

    Most people are far better off than they were 30 or 40 years ago, but they don't appreciate it IMO. For example a few decades ago most people couldn't afford to fly to somewhere nice in southern Europe, today almost everyone can. But people seem to take that sort of progress for granted and just focus on the things they'd like to have but can't afford. And people who point this out, like I've just done, find themselves on the receiving end of vicious abuse for daring to question their "rage".
  • Options
    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I think it's safe to say the general election didn't really work out for Theresa...
    I assume these results are leading up to a VI.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    It's when, not if. May is finished. So who? Boris is immensely popular among Tories but he is also very polarising. What votes would he win back that May lost?

    The priority now is not to win votes, but to get a functioning government again which won't make blunder after blunder.

    Then it has to be Hammond.

  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    I have little doubt that Theresa May will have to stand down during the summer recess and that a new leader needs to be in place by the Autumn.

    The House rises for its summer recess on 20 July. Based on Hammond's cancellation of the Mansion House speech, and all the other ministers not barking in the night time, I'm not certain we'll have to wait even that long.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    So, it seems all the homeless families will be housed locally, without the need to confiscate other people's property.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Sean_F said:

    So, it seems all the homeless families will be housed locally, without the need to confiscate other people's property.

    Indeed good.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,081

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
    The scales have dropped from the publics eyes. And, she is personally taking the blame for the current impasse. Rightly so. If the Tories have even a flake of backbone they will tell her she is gone this week and that she will stay as PM until her successor is appointed. And do as she is told by the party. The candidates must make clear if they will seek a mandate from the electorate, and when and the party machinery should be turned full square on Corbyn and the Labour leadership.
    I expect them to do none of this. Because they are useless and entitled. They will be destroyed in the next election and they have nobody but themselves to blame.
    So your suggestion is May stays as caretaker, the Tories have a leadership election and then go to the country for another GE. That would take 3 months I guess.
    What happens to the Brexit negotiations and the ticking clock in the meantime?
    Brexit can be subtly changed from a destination to a direction. Something we sort of might like to do eventually with PM Leadsom.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,949

    It's when, not if. May is finished. So who? Boris is immensely popular among Tories but he is also very polarising. What votes would he win back that May lost?

    The priority now is not to win votes, but to get a functioning government again which won't make blunder after blunder.

    Then it has to be Hammond.

    Hammond's last budget was a disaster...
  • Options
    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    AndyJS said:

    Something quite fundamental is happening in this country, and it all stems from 2008 and the failure of the establishment to regulate itself or punish itself for the mess it created. The hoarding of wealth by the elite, and the theft of public money by the same is beginning to become a recruiting sergeant for very left wing alternatives. In addition to this, we have all allowed a society to develop in which fame and fortune can be instantly obtained via text vote on reality shows or by the ability to kick a pigs bladder in a vague 20 degree arc. There's little drive to be successful further than that meaning 'celebrity' of the worst z list type. On the one hand, desire for accumulation of wealth and things above all else and the associated exposure to media that can go with it or facilitate it, and on the other the mugging off of public money to private, corporate hands.
    Then you have those that look upon the world and see that they have so little compared to their peers due to circumstance and dumb luck. It's a febrile powder keg. It's the idle wealth of the 20s and 30s set against the toil of the working man.
    Unsure where things will tip out but I can see wealth being replaced by striving, public access to technology replacing possessions, outcomes being judged on their public effect not how much money they generate. Intolerance of wealth, obscene wealth, will be a thing and will remain a thing.
    The times they are a changing.

    Most people are far better off than they were 30 or 40 years ago, but they don't appreciate it IMO. For example a few decades ago most people couldn't afford to fly to somewhere nice in southern Europe, today almost everyone can. But people seem to take that sort of progress for granted and just focus on the things they'd like to have but can't afford. And people who point this out, like I've just done, find themselves on the receiving end of vicious abuse for daring to question their "rage".
    True enough. We have allowed striving to become a dirty word and championed entitlement and possession. Except, bizarrely, for those most disadvantaged whom are now supposed to strive for the good of their immortal soul.
    Technology, and only technology, will set humanity free. If we can get it out of the hands of those that suppress and control it.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
    The scales have dropped from the publics eyes. And, she is personally taking the blame for the current impasse. Rightly so. If the Tories have even a flake of backbone they will tell her she is gone this week and that she will stay as PM until her successor is appointed. And do as she is told by the party. The candidates must make clear if they will seek a mandate from the electorate, and when and the party machinery should be turned full square on Corbyn and the Labour leadership.
    I expect them to do none of this. Because they are useless and entitled. They will be destroyed in the next election and they have nobody but themselves to blame.
    So your suggestion is May stays as caretaker, the Tories have a leadership election and then go to the country for another GE. That would take 3 months I guess.
    What happens to the Brexit negotiations and the ticking clock in the meantime?
    I'm not sure. I'm not sure what happens to it if they don't take that course. I'd assume David Davis goes into negotiations and is replaced if the Tories lose the ensuing GE by a Labour delegation. There's not really any other option.
    The Tories have no right to seek a fresh general election.
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    As each day goes by Mr Corbyn looks more and more a Prime Minister of a government -in-waiting.His wisdom and magnanimity is shown by the olive branch to Owen Smith who,in return,has shown comradeship and solidarity in his noble acceptance.Labour is now a united party,the tribes have come together.The country is waiting and a strong and stable Mr Corbyn is ready to serve to prevent this DUP coalition of chaos from destroying the country.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2017

    Then it has to be Hammond.

    That is my view. DD should be left running the Brexit negotiations, both to reassure the Leavers and because there's no time for anyone else to come up to speed.
  • Options
    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Sean_F said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
    The scales have dropped from the publics eyes. And, she is personally taking the blame for the current impasse. Rightly so. If the Tories have even a flake of backbone they will tell her she is gone this week and that she will stay as PM until her successor is appointed. And do as she is told by the party. The candidates must make clear if they will seek a mandate from the electorate, and when and the party machinery should be turned full square on Corbyn and the Labour leadership.
    I expect them to do none of this. Because they are useless and entitled. They will be destroyed in the next election and they have nobody but themselves to blame.
    So your suggestion is May stays as caretaker, the Tories have a leadership election and then go to the country for another GE. That would take 3 months I guess.
    What happens to the Brexit negotiations and the ticking clock in the meantime?
    I'm not sure. I'm not sure what happens to it if they don't take that course. I'd assume David Davis goes into negotiations and is replaced if the Tories lose the ensuing GE by a Labour delegation. There's not really any other option.
    The Tories have no right to seek a fresh general election.
    If they consider the country ungovernable they have a duty to seek one.
  • Options
    atia2atia2 Posts: 207
    DanSmith said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Tories need to move fast here because if Corbyn becoming PM stops being this outrageous idea and starts being a normal and almost obvious choice, they are gone.
    Too late, I'm afraid.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739

    As each day goes by Mr Corbyn looks more and more a Prime Minister of a government -in-waiting.His wisdom and magnanimity is shown by the olive branch to Owen Smith who,in return,has shown comradeship and solidarity in his noble acceptance.Labour is now a united party,the tribes have come together.The country is waiting and a strong and stable Mr Corbyn is ready to serve to prevent this DUP coalition of chaos from destroying the country.

    Yes, there definitely should be a sarcasm emoticon here.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    GIN1138 said:

    It's when, not if. May is finished. So who? Boris is immensely popular among Tories but he is also very polarising. What votes would he win back that May lost?

    The priority now is not to win votes, but to get a functioning government again which won't make blunder after blunder.

    Then it has to be Hammond.

    Hammond's last budget was a disaster...
    The search for the attributes that qualify Hammond goes on.

    "Buggins turn" is what got us into this mess.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    Sean_F said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
    The scales have dropped from the publics eyes. And, she is personally taking the blame for the current impasse. Rightly so. If the Tories have even a flake of backbone they will tell her she is gone this week and that she will stay as PM until her successor is appointed. And do as she is told by the party. The candidates must make clear if they will seek a mandate from the electorate, and when and the party machinery should be turned full square on Corbyn and the Labour leadership.
    I expect them to do none of this. Because they are useless and entitled. They will be destroyed in the next election and they have nobody but themselves to blame.
    So your suggestion is May stays as caretaker, the Tories have a leadership election and then go to the country for another GE. That would take 3 months I guess.
    What happens to the Brexit negotiations and the ticking clock in the meantime?
    I'm not sure. I'm not sure what happens to it if they don't take that course. I'd assume David Davis goes into negotiations and is replaced if the Tories lose the ensuing GE by a Labour delegation. There's not really any other option.
    The Tories have no right to seek a fresh general election.
    If they consider the country ungovernable they have a duty to seek one.
    The country is governable.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,456

    I have little doubt that Theresa May will have to stand down during the summer recess and that a new leader needs to be in place by the Autumn.

    The House rises for its summer recess on 20 July. Based on Hammond's cancellation of the Mansion House speech, and all the other ministers not barking in the night time, I'm not certain we'll have to wait even that long.
    Apart from labour non of the opposition want an election anytime soon. The SNP are in a mess, Lid Dems have no leader and the DUP will not let Corbyn in. So no early election likely
  • Options
    atia2atia2 Posts: 207

    Sean_F said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
    The scales have dropped from the publics eyes. And, she is personally taking the blame for the current impasse. Rightly so. If the Tories have even a flake of backbone they will tell her she is gone this week and that she will stay as PM until her successor is appointed. And do as she is told by the party. The candidates must make clear if they will seek a mandate from the electorate, and when and the party machinery should be turned full square on Corbyn and the Labour leadership.
    I expect them to do none of this. Because they are useless and entitled. They will be destroyed in the next election and they have nobody but themselves to blame.
    So your suggestion is May stays as caretaker, the Tories have a leadership election and then go to the country for another GE. That would take 3 months I guess.
    What happens to the Brexit negotiations and the ticking clock in the meantime?
    I'm not sure. I'm not sure what happens to it if they don't take that course. I'd assume David Davis goes into negotiations and is replaced if the Tories lose the ensuing GE by a Labour delegation. There's not really any other option.
    The Tories have no right to seek a fresh general election.
    If they consider the country ungovernable they have a duty to seek one.
    Not any more. It's a matter for the House.
  • Options
    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Mrs May should announce that all local authority tower blocks will be reclad and fitted with external fire escape towers, or redeveloped to new designs.
  • Options
    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
    The scales have dropped from the publics eyes. And, she is personally taking the blame for the current impasse. Rightly so. If the Tories have even a flake of backbone they will tell her she is gone this week and that she will stay as PM until her successor is appointed. And do as she is told by the party. The candidates must make clear if they will seek a mandate from the electorate, and when and the party machinery should be turned full square on Corbyn and the Labour leadership.
    I expect them to do none of this. Because they are useless and entitled. They will be destroyed in the next election and they have nobody but themselves to blame.
    So your suggestion is May stays as caretaker, the Tories have a leadership election and then go to the country for another GE. That would take 3 months I guess.
    What happens to the Brexit negotiations and the ticking clock in the meantime?
    I'm not sure. I'm not sure what happens to it if they don't take that course. I'd assume David Davis goes into negotiations and is replaced if the Tories lose the ensuing GE by a Labour delegation. There's not really any other option.
    The Tories have no right to seek a fresh general election.
    If they consider the country ungovernable they have a duty to seek one.
    The country is governable.
    Then they should do it.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,949

    Then it has to be Hammond.

    That is my view. DD should be left running the Brexit negotiations, both to reassure the Leavers and because there's no time for anyone else to come up to speed.
    You went for Theresa though and look how she turned out.

    These "safe but dull" types don't stand a chance against Corbyn, IMO.

    Time to take a risk - Either Boris or possibly someone from the backbenches followed by an immediate election.

    Needs to be someone who is believable on Brexit but who also has a bit of charisma and a bit of swagger.
  • Options
    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185

    It's like Lammy immediatly saying 'people' should be arrested.

    No, we should have an investigation, and if there is evidence of wrongdoing, then people should be arrested.

    To have the labour party suddenly decending into dangerous popularism becuase they had a whiff of success should worry every sensible individual.

    Yup, it points towards a chaotic government style if they got in.
  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    GIN1138 said:

    Then it has to be Hammond.

    That is my view. DD should be left running the Brexit negotiations, both to reassure the Leavers and because there's no time for anyone else to come up to speed.
    You went for Theresa though and look how she turned out.

    These "safe but dull" types don't stand a chance against Corbyn, IMO.

    Time to take a risk - Either Boris or possibly someone from the backbenches followed by an immediate election.

    Needs to be someone who is believable on Brexit but who also has a bit of charisma and a bit of swagger.
    Kwazi :+1:
  • Options
    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    edited June 2017

    As each day goes by Mr Corbyn looks more and more a Prime Minister of a government -in-waiting.His wisdom and magnanimity is shown by the olive branch to Owen Smith who,in return,has shown comradeship and solidarity in his noble acceptance.Labour is now a united party,the tribes have come together.The country is waiting and a strong and stable Mr Corbyn is ready to serve to prevent this DUP coalition of chaos from destroying the country.

    I cannot tell if this is a parody or not...
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    And shut off gas to tower blocks.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    atia2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Just look at the drop.
    The scales have dropped from the publics eyes. And, she is personally taking the blame for the current impasse. Rightly so. If the Tories have even a flake of backbone they will tell her she is gone this week and that she will stay as PM until her successor is appointed. And do as she is told by the party. The candidates must make clear if they will seek a mandate from the electorate, and when and the party machinery should be turned full square on Corbyn and the Labour leadership.
    I expect them to do none of this. Because they are useless and entitled. They will be destroyed in the next election and they have nobody but themselves to blame.
    So your suggestion is May stays as caretaker, the Tories have a leadership election and then go to the country for another GE. That would take 3 months I guess.
    What happens to the Brexit negotiations and the ticking clock in the meantime?
    I'm not sure. I'm not sure what happens to it if they don't take that course. I'd assume David Davis goes into negotiations and is replaced if the Tories lose the ensuing GE by a Labour delegation. There's not really any other option.
    The Tories have no right to seek a fresh general election.
    If they consider the country ungovernable they have a duty to seek one.
    Not any more. It's a matter for the House.
    Well, yes, I mean seek the agreement of the house for one. If that's their conclusion. Otherwise they govern and wait till being voted down.
  • Options
    atia2atia2 Posts: 207
    HaroldO said:

    It's like Lammy immediatly saying 'people' should be arrested.

    No, we should have an investigation, and if there is evidence of wrongdoing, then people should be arrested.

    To have the labour party suddenly decending into dangerous popularism becuase they had a whiff of success should worry every sensible individual.

    Yup, it points towards a chaotic government style if they got in.
    The government doesn't arrest people. Yet.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,456

    As each day goes by Mr Corbyn looks more and more a Prime Minister of a government -in-waiting.His wisdom and magnanimity is shown by the olive branch to Owen Smith who,in return,has shown comradeship and solidarity in his noble acceptance.Labour is now a united party,the tribes have come together.The country is waiting and a strong and stable Mr Corbyn is ready to serve to prevent this DUP coalition of chaos from destroying the country.

    I cannot see a path for it to happen in the short term
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
    That's fine and dandy TSE but there's a country to run and immense challenges ahead.

    If Tories think Prime Minister May is the answer for one more day, let alone months or years then they have gone completely doolally.

    If this tragedy had taken place 10 days ago then the exit poll would shown Jezza as largest party leader and heading for Downing Street.
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    atia2atia2 Posts: 207
    PAW said:

    Mrs May should announce that all local authority tower blocks will be reclad and fitted with external fire escape towers, or redeveloped to new designs.

    What about non-LA-owned tower blocks?
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
    Does the 'provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army' have a favoured Prime Ministerial candidate?
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    NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Then it has to be Hammond.

    That is my view. DD should be left running the Brexit negotiations, both to reassure the Leavers and because there's no time for anyone else to come up to speed.
    You went for Theresa though and look how she turned out.

    These "safe but dull" types don't stand a chance against Corbyn, IMO.

    Time to take a risk - Either Boris or possibly someone from the backbenches followed by an immediate election.

    Needs to be someone who is believable on Brexit but who also has a bit of charisma and a bit of swagger.
    Kwazi :+1:
    Kwazi or Stewart
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    atia2 said:

    DanSmith said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Tories need to move fast here because if Corbyn becoming PM stops being this outrageous idea and starts being a normal and almost obvious choice, they are gone.
    Too late, I'm afraid.
    I assume you'll be targetting Wimbledon ?
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    GIN1138 said:

    It's when, not if. May is finished. So who? Boris is immensely popular among Tories but he is also very polarising. What votes would he win back that May lost?

    The priority now is not to win votes, but to get a functioning government again which won't make blunder after blunder.

    Then it has to be Hammond.

    Hammond's last budget was a disaster...
    Hammond's last budget was not a disaster. It lasted an entire week before the NIC u-turn. That's three whole days longer than the manifesto's dementia tax. Success is relative so on those grounds it is clear Philip Hammond is the right man for the job -- if anyone can find him, that is.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Another one goes.

    Theresa May has lost another of her long-serving aides after Will Tanner, deputy head of Downing Street’s policy unit, decided to quit.

    His departure follows the resignation of Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill, the prime minister’s co-chiefs of staff, as the Downing Street team is reshaped following the botched general election campaign.

    https://www.ft.com/content/ad27bf00-51c2-11e7-bfb8-997009366969
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    GIN1138 said:

    Then it has to be Hammond.

    That is my view. DD should be left running the Brexit negotiations, both to reassure the Leavers and because there's no time for anyone else to come up to speed.
    You went for Theresa though and look how she turned out.

    These "safe but dull" types don't stand a chance against Corbyn, IMO.

    Time to take a risk - Either Boris or possibly someone from the backbenches followed by an immediate election.

    Needs to be someone who is believable on Brexit but who also has a bit of charisma and a bit of swagger.
    Get Jeremy Clarkson into the Commons asap.

    Appoint Hammond as caretaker.

    May, Hammond, then Clarkson.

    Vroom!
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    atia2 said:

    HaroldO said:

    It's like Lammy immediatly saying 'people' should be arrested.

    No, we should have an investigation, and if there is evidence of wrongdoing, then people should be arrested.

    To have the labour party suddenly decending into dangerous popularism becuase they had a whiff of success should worry every sensible individual.

    Yup, it points towards a chaotic government style if they got in.
    The government doesn't arrest people. Yet.
    Demanding it in the media is a worrying step, plus in court the defence will use it as proof of a witch hunt.
  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,978
    Well, Mays visit to the tower today was shambolic.

    Should have met the residents, but assuming was worried she'd be criticised. To Corbyns credit, at least he got out there and showed some empathy.

    She's doing massive long term damage to the tories now.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
    Does the 'provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army' have a favoured Prime Ministerial candidate?
    Osborne said something about not fumbling the ball next time, which I assume meant Gove. Others may have more insight.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    You went for Theresa though and look how she turned out.

    True, but I hadn't anticipated her extraordinary transformation from safe pair of hands to one-woman constitutional wrecking-ball.

    The problem was emphatically not that she turned out too dull - quite the opposite.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    OchEye said:

    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.

    July 10th is a Monday, seems a bit odd.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    At the risk of sounding gauche, I will point out again that I did say that Theresa May's apparently sky-high approval ratings flattered to deceive.

    So not gauche.

    I wonder how the guy who consistently said 'Theresa May is a pound shop Gordon Brown' is feeling at the moment?
    It turns out that said fellow was being unfair to Gordon Brown.
    Yeah, I forgot Brown was up against Cameron whilst May was up against Corbyn. CORBYN FFS!
    I see that the beds are getting well and truly wet today.
    My bed is dry. It is a curious feeling at the moment for me,

    As head of the provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army, I'm feeling vindicated.

    As a Tory, I'm utterly devastated at the situation the party (and the country) finds itself in today.
    Does the 'provisional wing of the continuity Cameron army' have a favoured Prime Ministerial candidate?
    Jeremy Hunt or Phil Hammond. Michael Fallon at a push.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited June 2017
    PAW said:

    Mrs May should announce that all local authority tower blocks will be reclad and fitted with external fire escape towers, or redeveloped to new designs.

    This may also affect a fair few shiny, expensive, newbuild / renovated residential blocks in cities throughout Britain and around the world.

    Externally cladded leasehold flats are suspect.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,843

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    GIN1138 said:

    It was a real pleasure to publish this thread.

    I wonder what Malc will make of it? ;)
    Actually, malcolmg made a very prescient remark about Brexit, and its potential effect on indy, about ten months ago.

    He said that if Brexit was seen to be difficult, and if it was seen to cause political instability, then that would be seriously bad for the independence cause, and seriously bad for the SNP, as another vote for another kind of separation would look really unappetising.

    Turns out he was right.

    He may have a limited capacity for root-vegetable related insults, but malcolmg is no fool.
    He is no fool. I called this wrong. I thought Brexit would increase demand for independence. The other main thing I got wrong incidentally is that I thought Brexit would make no difference to immigration beyond the inevitable recession effect. I underestimated how much immigration is affected by making would-be immigrants unwelcome.
    Most immigration is driven by money.
    That's what I thought, mistakenly as it turned out. Saying foreigners not welcome is an effective way to reduce immigration. It's not "control" of any sensible kind, nor is it a sign of an open and civilised Britain that I would want to be a part of. But it does get the numbers down, which is all that May et al care about.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,520

    Well, Mays visit to the tower today was shambolic.

    Should have met the residents, but assuming was worried she'd be criticised. To Corbyns credit, at least he got out there and showed some empathy.

    She's doing massive long term damage to the tories now.

    There are some advantages to her hanging on whilst the party takes time to think about what happens next but the preponderance of disadvantages builds by the day. Her credibility is completely shot and we are not in a position to cope with a limping and fatally wounded PM. She really needs to go now.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    PAW said:

    Mrs May should announce that all local authority tower blocks will be reclad and fitted with external fire escape towers, or redeveloped to new designs.

    At the risk of sounding like a heartless bastard. How much would that cost?

    The answer is yes, it should probably happen, but it'll take many many years to get that done, and cost a heck of a lot.

    Fires of this magnitude are very rare, surely the best, boring course of action is to have an investigation, find out exactly what happened, and then reasonable costed recommendations from there.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    OchEye said:

    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.

    July 10th is a Monday, seems a bit odd.
    That's the date by which CCHQ has said candidates should apply. Would mean an August election possibly.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739

    GIN1138 said:

    Then it has to be Hammond.

    That is my view. DD should be left running the Brexit negotiations, both to reassure the Leavers and because there's no time for anyone else to come up to speed.
    You went for Theresa though and look how she turned out.

    These "safe but dull" types don't stand a chance against Corbyn, IMO.

    Time to take a risk - Either Boris or possibly someone from the backbenches followed by an immediate election.

    Needs to be someone who is believable on Brexit but who also has a bit of charisma and a bit of swagger.
    Get Jeremy Clarkson into the Commons asap.

    Appoint Hammond as caretaker.

    May, Hammond, then Clarkson.

    Vroom!
    Yes, Clarkson is a bit shaky on Climate Change but at least he's a Remainer.
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    atia2atia2 Posts: 207
    Pulpstar said:

    atia2 said:

    DanSmith said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Scott_P said:
    I know it sounds weird but this seems more normal. The Tories in power andhated by everyone and Labour loved because they're warm and fluffy.
    Tories need to move fast here because if Corbyn becoming PM stops being this outrageous idea and starts being a normal and almost obvious choice, they are gone.
    Too late, I'm afraid.
    I assume you'll be targetting Wimbledon ?
    Well, I can't justify tramping around the mean streets of Isleworth any more. I guess I'll do what I'm told.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    OchEye said:

    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.

    July 10th is a Monday, seems a bit odd.
    Day before I go on holiday. I might not be coming back....
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    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    edited June 2017
    I was knocked for saying it, but still maintain if Farage were a Con MP he would be leader and wipe the floor w Corbyn. Media friendly conviction and common touch.

    People say he is divisive, but isn't (wasn't?) Jezza?
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    atia2atia2 Posts: 207

    OchEye said:

    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.

    July 10th is a Monday, seems a bit odd.
    That's the date by which CCHQ has said candidates should apply. Would mean an August election possibly.
    Snap election for what???
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    OchEye said:

    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.

    July 10th is a Monday, seems a bit odd.
    That's the date by which CCHQ has said candidates should apply. Would mean an August election possibly.
    August election when everyones on holiday...that would be 'interesting'
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739

    OchEye said:

    Just for interest, but gossip and Guido are now suggesting a snap election for July 10th. Seems the negotiations with the DUP fell through and May used yesterday's tragedy to cover it up.

    July 10th is a Monday, seems a bit odd.
    That's the date by which CCHQ has said candidates should apply. Would mean an August election possibly.
    When we're all on holiday.
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