The Leavers are in a blind panic over this result, but their government should have taken a more consolidating tone. Fancy talking about crushing saboteurs and erecting giant statues of Theresa. The Leavers are entirely to blame for this debacle. They alienated great swathes of the electorate making them ripe for Jezza.
Here's my suggestion for a vanity Northern Ireland project.
Upgrade the train line between Belfast and Dublin. Make it a super fast TGV like service, 40 minutes from door-to-door. Subsidise it high heaven, so it's only a tenner each way.
It would be good for business, good for jobs, the Irish government would love it, and it would be a spectacular bribe to the people of Northern Ireland.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
Your company doesn't attract very high quality personnel.
BREAKING: DUP to back May on the basis of "confidence and supply" - not a full coalition
That was obvious. The DUP would see no advantage in a Coalition. Many of their supporters are economically left wing, but vote DUP to defend the Union, and to get pork from the government.
Today is a great day for vanity projects in Northern Ireland. Anyone want to bet on the first large infrastructure project we see announced?
A border wall?
nonsence
fill in the Irish \Sea
An Irish Tunnel? Just the thing to kick-start the economies of Northern England and Northern Ireland.
I read that David Davis was one of the most bullish voices on this election - Sounds about right given his penchant for forcing pointless parliamentary elections on the voters when there's no need for it...
Non-SPAD experience of working in the outside world?
BURN HER
Ken Clarke has also worked for tobacco companies iirc.
|George Osborne has worked for Satan
No wonder he is so good.
At what exactly? Decent political operator/behind the scenes manipulator but his record in office won't be fondly remembered and his skills as a newspaperman are yet to be determined.
His economic record was truly remarkable. Consistent growth despite the EU trying to commit hari kari with deflationary policies, record employment, deficit cut by 2/3, millions taken out of tax, National Living Wage, oh and he ran a campaign that won a majority too. What's not to like?
How many more hundreds of billions did he borrow than he said he would ?
And if Osborne could borrow hundreds of billions more than he said he would then why would voters think Corbyn borrowing a bit more to fund public services and student tuition fees be so dangerous ?
You see how the failings can have consequences further along the line.
I get so bored of this. It is completely pointless. Obviously Osborne should have cut public spending much more savagely and forced the economy into recession and deflation rather than responding to actual events in the real world that were outwith his control but greatly impacted on the forecasts made in 2010.
Its really childish.
I really hope you're better at your day job when a factual document is used against bluster.
The same defence you use for Osborne's extra borrowing can be used to support Corbyn's extra borrowing - ' blah, savage cuts, blah, recession, blah, investment, blah, deflation, blah, actual events, blah, real world, blah. '
So why shouldn't someone who wants higher funding for public services or an end to student tuition fees support extra government borrowing ? Are they any less deserving than extra government borrowing for Middle Eastern warmongering or HS2 or increased overseas aid ?
What is so inherently wrong about Labour borrowing rather than George Osborne's borrowing ?
Sounds like we're returning to the 'beer and sandwiches' era of Wilson and Sunny Jim, with minister filing into smoke-filled rooms to agree murky deals. What a humiliation for Theresa. A few weeks ago she had a 200+ majority within her grasp.
I think this is good from the DUP. The vote was as much about anti-austerity as it was for a soft Brexit.
The DUP are best thought of as UKIP in sashes. They're not interested in sound money, they are very keen on reactionary identity issues.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
Your company doesn't attract very high quality personnel.
We like them to know as little about the outside world as possible. It minimises distractions.
I read that David Davis was one of the most bullish voices on this election - Sounds right given his penchant for forcing pointless parliamentary elections on the voters when there's no need for it...
If this election hadn't happened it must have been a good bet that at some point he would have flounced out of the negotiations, resigned his seat and asked the people of Haltemprice and Howden to send Brussels a message.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
Your company doesn't attract very high quality personnel.
We like them to know as little about the outside world as possible. It minimises distractions.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
Tis a great story, but does show what geeks we are, able to name MPs by constituency across the nation. It ain't normal.
BREAKING: DUP to back May on the basis of "confidence and supply" - not a full coalition
That was obvious. The DUP would see no advantage in a Coalition. Many of their supporters are economically left wing, but vote DUP to defend the Union, and to get pork from the government.
Today is a great day for vanity projects in Northern Ireland. Anyone want to bet on the first large infrastructure project we see announced?
When's this poll coming out telling us what the voters want Mrs May to do (Leave or Remain in Downing) ?
I do not think it will make any difference. The conservative party do not give away power easily and to be honest the election will have a big effect on Brexit as Scottish and DUP MP's who total 23 want a soft Brexit.
I think the main problem for Corbyn is the left rioting on the streets and causing wide scale disobedience. It seems as if there has already been protests.
The public will not put up with intimidation from stop the war and the far left, especially if Corbyn turns up to protest with them
The interesting think for me is the Lib Dems. The conservatives need to hand out an olive branch to them on social care and health together with sound economics.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
That's very funny.
This is crucial - many, particular younger voters, identifed Labour as a more realistic bridgehead against hard Brexit, than the liberal democrats .
Thank you all for confirming my long held view that the Tories are not interested In what's right for the people rather than doing what is right for the country , as long as they are in parliament and government and the minions can take their rightful place running the loccal council then anything iis better than the alternative.. Have tried to be non partisan but....
Just a quick mention of her endorsement by three loyalist paramilitaries and her father's conviction for arms-trafficking and associating with terrorists.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
About the same as Jane Ellison and Justine Greening.
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
Tis a great story, but does show what geeks we are, able to name MPs by constituency across the nation. It ain't normal.
We are the 1% in political interest terms. Important to remember for trying to estimate 'cut through' of events/messages.
Thanks for trying to input into the real debate about what's best for the UK. But I'm afraid they are more interested in the internal workings of the Tory party do I give a f.. F.. who leads them no but I'm biased or ignorant. They could have added stupid but you do fealing it's time to give up
Since I am not a Tory I have no interest in the internal workings of that party. Yet another thing to add to the list that you got wrong through ignorance, or maybe bias.
I'm not actually sure what we disagree about I just think that it won't be negotiation rather than a tke it or leave it position and that those in Europe who could suffer by hard brexit have been planning for it already. So the longer we prevaricate the more they mitigate the impact to themselves. Yes I voted remain I've now moved on to wanting what, given the circumstances is best for the UK but the longer we piss about with sill uk political issues the worse it gets.
Yes. This is only about having a functioning negotiating team. The Conservatives can only seal the deal with the acquiescence of Labour. The actual agreement is largely at the whim of the EU. Depending on the kindness of those we have estranged is a crap strategy, but there we go.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
Tis a great story, but does show what geeks we are, able to name MPs by constituency across the nation. It ain't normal.
Everyone's a bit of a geek about something aren't they ?
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
About the same as Jane Ellison and Justine Greening.
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
So Brexit had nothing to do with her losing her seat? It's a view.
The Leavers are in a blind panic over this result, but their government should have taken a more consolidating tone. Fancy talking about crushing saboteurs and erecting giant statues of Theresa. The Leavers are entirely to blame for this debacle. They alienated great swathes of the electorate making them ripe for Jezza.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
Tis a great story, but does show what geeks we are, able to name MPs by constituency across the nation. It ain't normal.
Everyone's a bit of a geek about something aren't they ?
Ye - We know for instance hell will freeze over before Bristol West goes Tory now. Most people won't know that
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
Tis a great story, but does show what geeks we are, able to name MPs by constituency across the nation. It ain't normal.
Everyone's a bit of a geek about something aren't they ?
Ye - We know for instance hell will freeze over before Bristol West goes Tory now. Most people won't know that
Pulps is it on your behalf I owe my £1 to charity... as I recall it was most seats
When's this poll coming out telling us what the voters want Mrs May to do (Leave or Remain in Downing) ?
I do not think it will make any difference. The conservative party do not give away power easily and to be honest the election will have a big effect on Brexit as Scottish and DUP MP's who total 23 want a soft Brexit.
I think the main problem for Corbyn is the left rioting on the streets and causing wide scale disobedience. It seems as if there has already been protests.
The public will not put up with intimidation from stop the war and the far left, especially if Corbyn turns up to protest with them
The interesting think for me is the Lib Dems. The conservatives need to hand out an olive branch to them on social care and health together with sound economics.
Corbyn will not have a free run next time
You call that a free run?
The Lib Dems, whose English MPs are all in two-horse races versus the Tories, aren't going to be participating in any more Conservative detox soon, methinks. Anyway, Conservatives have enough friends and allies in the Democratic Unionist Party.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
Badly. Kensington is one of the few seats where William's views are mainstream.
Just a quick mention of her endorsement by three loyalist paramilitaries and her father's conviction for arms-trafficking and associating with terrorists.
Blink and you'd miss it ...
To be fair, that's not specific to Little Pengelly. I'm sure if asked, all the DUP MPs would be endorsed by Ulster paramilitaries.
When's this poll coming out telling us what the voters want Mrs May to do (Leave or Remain in Downing) ?
I do not think it will make any difference. The conservative party do not give away power easily and to be honest the election will have a big effect on Brexit as Scottish and DUP MP's who total 23 want a soft Brexit.
I think the main problem for Corbyn is the left rioting on the streets and causing wide scale disobedience. It seems as if there has already been protests.
The public will not put up with intimidation from stop the war and the far left, especially if Corbyn turns up to protest with them
The interesting think for me is the Lib Dems. The conservatives need to hand out an olive branch to them on social care and health together with sound economics.
Corbyn will not have a free run next time
You call that a free run?
The Lib Dems, whose English MPs are all in two-horse races versus the Tories, aren't going to be participating in any more Conservative detox soon, methinks. Anyway, Conservatives have enough friends and allies in the Democratic Unionist Party.
It would just be too dangerous for the LIb Dems to be seen in a second alliance or co-operation with the Tories, particularly when they both explictly ruled that out beforehand, depend on a remain protest vote, and most importantly can't remain viable without a left and right faction, to enable them to face different ways in different seats,
Thanks for trying to input into the real debate about what's best for the UK. But I'm afraid they are more interested in the internal workings of the Tory party do I give a f.. F.. who leads them no but I'm biased or ignorant. They could have added stupid but you do fealing it's time to give up
Since I am not a Tory I have no interest in the internal workings of that party. Yet another thing to add to the list that you got wrong through ignorance, or maybe bias.
I'm not actually sure what we disagree about I just think that it won't be negotiation rather than a tke it or leave it position and that those in Europe who could suffer by hard brexit have been planning for it already. So the longer we prevaricate the more they mitigate the impact to themselves. Yes I voted remain I've now moved on to wanting what, given the circumstances is best for the UK but the longer we piss about with sill uk political issues the worse it gets.
Yes. This is only about having a functioning negotiating team. The Conservatives can only seal the deal with the acquiescence of Labour. The actual agreement is largely at the whim of the EU. Depending on the kindness of those we have estranged is a crap strategy, but there we go.
Was starting to think I had missed something but my biggest gripe is the wasted time. I just hope UL PLC has also sorted it's supply chain out while politicians dither. This is not about stupid headlines and positions but real jobs and real future. Ok we're leaving but lets be grown up about the best way out.
That is bad news for the tories. The votes there from middle aged people were overwhelming for Labour. This is not just a 'students want free tuition' vote.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
About the same as Jane Ellison and Justine Greening.
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
So Brexit had nothing to do with her losing her seat? It's a view.
As I didn't say that its not a view.
When its only 20 votes any number of reasons are involved and Brexit was probably one of them.
Nevertheless the Leaver Borwick had an equivalent fall in votes to Remainer Conservatives in inner London.
Here's my suggestion for a vanity Northern Ireland project.
Upgrade the train line between Belfast and Dublin. Make it a super fast TGV like service, 40 minutes from door-to-door. Subsidise it high heaven, so it's only a tenner each way.
It would be good for business, good for jobs, the Irish government would love it, and it would be a spectacular bribe to the people of Northern Ireland.
That's not a bad idea. Other people here will know what is really practical, it would be great symbolically as well, assuming we keep the CTA going with some sort of single market deal with the EU or joining EFTA.
When's this poll coming out telling us what the voters want Mrs May to do (Leave or Remain in Downing) ?
I do not think it will make any difference. The conservative party do not give away power easily and to be honest the election will have a big effect on Brexit as Scottish and DUP MP's who total 23 want a soft Brexit.
I think the main problem for Corbyn is the left rioting on the streets and causing wide scale disobedience. It seems as if there has already been protests.
The public will not put up with intimidation from stop the war and the far left, especially if Corbyn turns up to protest with them
The interesting think for me is the Lib Dems. The conservatives need to hand out an olive branch to them on social care and health together with sound economics.
Corbyn will not have a free run next time
You call that a free run?
The Lib Dems, whose English MPs are all in two-horse races versus the Tories, aren't going to be participating in any more Conservative detox soon, methinks. Anyway, Conservatives have enough friends and allies in the Democratic Unionist Party.
They don't actually if they want to get Brexit through, which is the only thing that matters now. They need Labour numbers to face down restive factions within their own ranks.
When's this poll coming out telling us what the voters want Mrs May to do (Leave or Remain in Downing) ?
I do not think it will make any difference. The conservative party do not give away power easily and to be honest the election will have a big effect on Brexit as Scottish and DUP MP's who total 23 want a soft Brexit.
I think the main problem for Corbyn is the left rioting on the streets and causing wide scale disobedience. It seems as if there has already been protests.
The public will not put up with intimidation from stop the war and the far left, especially if Corbyn turns up to protest with them
The interesting think for me is the Lib Dems. The conservatives need to hand out an olive branch to them on social care and health together with sound economics.
Corbyn will not have a free run next time
You call that a free run?
The Lib Dems, whose English MPs are all in two-horse races versus the Tories, aren't going to be participating in any more Conservative detox soon, methinks. Anyway, Conservatives have enough friends and allies in the Democratic Unionist Party.
They are in a good position and it will be interesting how responsible they will be. As I said yesterday I assume Vince Cable will speak on finance and he is not going to give McDonnell as easy time any day soon.
Another interesting feature of the new Parliament will be the 34 SNP MP's coming under attack from the 21 Scots Unionist MP's in the conservative, labour and lib dem parties. For once they will be seriously callenged
That is bad news for the tories. The votes there from middle aged people were overwhelming for Labour. This is not just a 'students want free tuition' vote.
Middle aged people have kids who might go to university in a few years.
BREAKING: DUP to back May on the basis of "confidence and supply" - not a full coalition
That was obvious. The DUP would see no advantage in a Coalition. Many of their supporters are economically left wing, but vote DUP to defend the Union, and to get pork from the government.
Today is a great day for vanity projects in Northern Ireland. Anyone want to bet on the first large infrastructure project we see announced?
When's this poll coming out telling us what the voters want Mrs May to do (Leave or Remain in Downing) ?
I do not think it will make any difference. The conservative party do not give away power easily and to be honest the election will have a big effect on Brexit as Scottish and DUP MP's who total 23 want a soft Brexit.
I think the main problem for Corbyn is the left rioting on the streets and causing wide scale disobedience. It seems as if there has already been protests.
The public will not put up with intimidation from stop the war and the far left, especially if Corbyn turns up to protest with them
The interesting think for me is the Lib Dems. The conservatives need to hand out an olive branch to them on social care and health together with sound economics.
Corbyn will not have a free run next time
You call that a free run?
The Lib Dems, whose English MPs are all in two-horse races versus the Tories, aren't going to be participating in any more Conservative detox soon, methinks. Anyway, Conservatives have enough friends and allies in the Democratic Unionist Party.
They are in a position and it will be interesting how responsible they will be. As I said yesterday I assume Vince Cable will speak on finance and he is not going to give McDonnell as easy time any day soon.
Another interesting feature of the new Parliament will be the 34 SNP MP's coming under attack from the large number of Scots Unionist MP's in the conservative, labour and lib dem parties. For once they will be seriously callenged
I assume Vince Cable will not bother with John McDonnell, because none of their MPs and few of their prospects will be competing against Labour. Rather, they will be trying to maximise useful votes from Labour-minded people.
That is bad news for the tories. The votes there from middle aged people were overwhelming for Labour. This is not just a 'students want free tuition' vote.
That is bad news for the tories. The votes there from middle aged people were overwhelming for Labour. This is not just a 'students want free tuition' vote.
Middle aged people have kids who might go to university in a few years.
Thanks for trying to input into the real debate about what's best for the UK. But I'm afraid they are more interested in the internal workings of the Tory party do I give a f.. F.. who leads them no but I'm biased or ignorant. They could have added stupid but you do fealing it's time to give up
Since I am not a Tory I have no interest in the internal workings of that party. Yet another thing to add to the list that you got wrong through ignorance, or maybe bias.
I'm not actually sure what we disagree about I just think that it won't be negotiation rather than a tke it or leave it position and that those in Europe who could suffer by hard brexit have been planning for it already. So the longer we prevaricate the more they mitigate the impact to themselves. Yes I voted remain I've now moved on to wanting what, given the circumstances is best for the UK but the longer we piss about with sill uk political issues the worse it gets.
Yes. This is only about having a functioning negotiating team. The Conservatives can only seal the deal with the acquiescence of Labour. The actual agreement is largely at the whim of the EU. Depending on the kindness of those we have estranged is a crap strategy, but there we go.
It's at the whim of the EU in so far as the EU can maintain its posturing that it is oblivious to the impact on its member states of closing the UK to their exports. The EU is quite happy to damage substantially the economic interests of the EU, in order to inflict what is probably far less damage on the UK economy, given the scale of exports in each respective direction and the failure to reach a single market in services as opposed to goods. However, what the UK is dependent on is not the kindness of Brussels - since their malevolence can be taken as read. The UK's dependence is instead on Germany, France and the rest, in terms of whether they are prepared to sign up to damaging their own economies in order to play Brussels' political games. Initially I think they will go along with it, but when it comes to the reality of losing those export markets I think they will blink.
That is bad news for the tories. The votes there from middle aged people were overwhelming for Labour. This is not just a 'students want free tuition' vote.
Will be interesting to see if the old idea about getting more conservative as you get older has been turned on its head. If it has then the the Tories are truly fucked, they are relying on dying demographic.
BREAKING: DUP to back May on the basis of "confidence and supply" - not a full coalition
That was obvious. The DUP would see no advantage in a Coalition. Many of their supporters are economically left wing, but vote DUP to defend the Union, and to get pork from the government.
Today is a great day for vanity projects in Northern Ireland. Anyone want to bet on the first large infrastructure project we see announced?
Belfast International Airport Rail Link?
Join up the two bits of the M2, though I don't know how that's actually possible as one goes east-west and one south-north (Seriously, look at a map around Ballymena, it's very odd)
BREAKING: DUP to back May on the basis of "confidence and supply" - not a full coalition
That was obvious. The DUP would see no advantage in a Coalition. Many of their supporters are economically left wing, but vote DUP to defend the Union, and to get pork from the government.
Today is a great day for vanity projects in Northern Ireland. Anyone want to bet on the first large infrastructure project we see announced?
Initially I think they will go along with it, but when it comes to the reality of losing those export markets I think they will blink.
The EU losing the UK as an export market? Have you been following events in the UK over the past week? Threatening 'no deal' as a negotiation position was always an obvious bluff on May's part, but now she doesn't even have the strength to pretend otherwise.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
About the same as Jane Ellison and Justine Greening.
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
So Brexit had nothing to do with her losing her seat? It's a view.
As I didn't say that its not a view.
When its only 20 votes any number of reasons are involved and Brexit was probably one of them.
Nevertheless the Leaver Borwick had an equivalent fall in votes to Remainer Conservatives in inner London.
Because the threat of Brexit or at least hard Brexit is associated with the unattractive electorally right wing of the Tories. With a half sane leader Labour would have won on Thursday. Easily.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
Badly. Kensington is one of the few seats where William's views are mainstream.
Actually no.
Conservative vote falls:
Battersea -10.8% Chelsea -10.3% Kensington -10.1% Hampstead -10.0% Putney -9.7% Westminster N -8.5%
I think Borwick might have been the only Leaver in those constituencies.
Now I'm sure that Brexit was negative for the Conservatives generally in inner London but there doesn't appear to have been a specific anti-Borwick vote.
Thanks for trying to input into the real debate about what's best for the UK. But I'm afraid they are more interested in the internal workings of the Tory party do I give a f.. F.. who leads them no but I'm biased or ignorant. They could have added stupid but you do fealing it's time to give up
Since I am not a Tory I have no interest in the internal workings of that party. Yet another thing to add to the list that you got wrong through ignorance, or maybe bias.
I'm not actually sure what we disagree about I just think that it won't be negotiation rather than a tke it or leave it position and that those in Europe who could suffer by hard brexit have been planning for it already. So the longer we prevaricate the more they mitigate the impact to themselves. Yes I voted remain I've now moved on to wanting what, given the circumstances is best for the UK but the longer we piss about with sill uk political issues the worse it gets.
Yes. This is only about having a functioning negotiating team. The Conservatives can only seal the deal with the acquiescence of Labour. The actual agreement is largely at the whim of the EU. Depending on the kindness of those we have estranged is a crap strategy, but there we go.
Was starting to think I had missed something but my biggest gripe is the wasted time. I just hope UL PLC has also sorted it's supply chain out while politicians dither. This is not about stupid headlines and positions but real jobs and real future. Ok we're leaving but lets be grown up about the best way out.
This is not about stupid headlines and positions but real jobs and real future. --- Yes
Ok we're leaving but lets be grown up about the best way out. --- Yes again. There are deals to be had. It won't be as good as what we have now. It won't be the last word. The Brexit mess will drag on for ever. But the deals will be OK and a lot better than nothing.
Still haven't made up my mind whether this was a good election or not for the Lib Dems. On the one hand they made gains and are at least the 4th largest party (were tied with the DUP) and got some big hitters like Canle, Swindon and Davey back into Parliament.
On the other hand their leader is now in a tight marginal, other than St Ives and Bath they are nowhere in the south west and got completel wiped out in Wales and the Midlands. Clegg is a big loss for them and I wouldn't be surprised if Cable starts plotting to oust Farron. And they are still struggling for media attention - barely mentioned in the hour long post-election BBC News special yesterday
That is bad news for the tories. The votes there from middle aged people were overwhelming for Labour. This is not just a 'students want free tuition' vote.
Ehhh, in Scotland the SNP got 36.9%, Tories 28.6, Labour 27.1, Lib Dem 6.8%. Not seeing that on this chart.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
About the same as Jane Ellison and Justine Greening.
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
So Brexit had nothing to do with her losing her seat? It's a view.
As I didn't say that its not a view.
When its only 20 votes any number of reasons are involved and Brexit was probably one of them.
Nevertheless the Leaver Borwick had an equivalent fall in votes to Remainer Conservatives in inner London.
Because the threat of Brexit or at least hard Brexit is associated with the unattractive electorally right wing of the Tories. With a half sane leader Labour would have won on Thursday. Easily.
If that were really the case, not even Mrs May would have been daft enough to call a snap election in that situation.
That is bad news for the tories. The votes there from middle aged people were overwhelming for Labour. This is not just a 'students want free tuition' vote.
Will be interesting to see if the old idea about getting more conservative as you get older has been turned on its head. If it has then the the Tories are truly fucked, they are relying on dying demographic.
Pshaw - the Tory pensioners of today were the flower children of the 60s, and the older cohort is only going to increase in size for the time being.
All the Tories need to do is keep to bribing the old instead of threatening to punch them in the face as they did this time. It's so obvious it's painful, but clearly not obvious enough for Nick Timothy and May.
Re: Vauxhall, bet the Lib Dems are regretting sending all those activists for their silly stunt there when they lost Richmond Park so narrowly
Good point, and as someone who won bets on both seats I'm rather glad they didn't think of it a week ago...
That Lib Dem canvass info that someone posted on twitter made me hedge the bet >.>
Who was that, and was it genuine info or a wind up.
Mike believed it was, apparently came from the source as the one who posted the Richmond Park by election info.
It seems increasingly hard to tell. Rumours this year included:
Lib.Dems = close to winning Witney? Not even close, I guessed ... correct.
Lib.Dems = could win Vauxhall? I assumed it was false info. ... correct.
Labour = close to winning Canterbury? Not even close, I assumed ... wrong.
What would the result would have been of betting on all the GE 2017 rumours? Most were at fairly long odds but I've no idea how many came good apart from Canterbury.
There was one tip/rumour about Tories gaining Argyll and Bute which was wrong although it came fairly close.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
About the same as Jane Ellison and Justine Greening.
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
So Brexit had nothing to do with her losing her seat? It's a view.
As I didn't say that its not a view.
When its only 20 votes any number of reasons are involved and Brexit was probably one of them.
Nevertheless the Leaver Borwick had an equivalent fall in votes to Remainer Conservatives in inner London.
Because the threat of Brexit or at least hard Brexit is associated with the unattractive electorally right wing of the Tories. With a half sane leader Labour would have won on Thursday. Easily.
A big problem for the Conservatives is that both the left wing and the right wing think that the other faction is making them unpopular, and they don't realise that they each need the other.
That is bad news for the tories. The votes there from middle aged people were overwhelming for Labour. This is not just a 'students want free tuition' vote.
Will be interesting to see if the old idea about getting more conservative as you get older has been turned on its head. If it has then the the Tories are truly fucked, they are relying on dying demographic.
The politics will be decided by the end March 2019 when leave and remain will have been resolved, though dinosaurs like Farage may still try to make mischief. London seats went labour as labour were perceived more pro single market and if the deal ends up as EEA and the conservatives have negotiated the deal, they will get the credit
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
Tis a great story, but does show what geeks we are, able to name MPs by constituency across the nation. It ain't normal.
We are the 1% in political interest terms. Important to remember for trying to estimate 'cut through' of events/messages.
My hairdresser this morning didn't understand what not having a majority meant. I don't think that is particularly unusual. Most people probably just think that the conservatives have won.
Also she thought that a labour victory meant loads of free stuff but then taxes going up, think she was right about that.
Just a quick mention of her endorsement by three loyalist paramilitaries and her father's conviction for arms-trafficking and associating with terrorists.
Blink and you'd miss it ...
To be fair, that's not specific to Little Pengelly. I'm sure if asked, all the DUP MPs would be endorsed by Ulster paramilitaries.
The Telegraph doesn't mention any of the others being endorsed by paramilitaries. IIRC the BBC had a bit more about her thanking those from loyalist areas for their support.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
About the same as Jane Ellison and Justine Greening.
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
So Brexit had nothing to do with her losing her seat? It's a view.
As I didn't say that its not a view.
When its only 20 votes any number of reasons are involved and Brexit was probably one of them.
Nevertheless the Leaver Borwick had an equivalent fall in votes to Remainer Conservatives in inner London.
Because the threat of Brexit or at least hard Brexit is associated with the unattractive electorally right wing of the Tories. With a half sane leader Labour would have won on Thursday. Easily.
A big problem for the Conservatives is that both the left wing and the right wing think that the other faction is making them unpopular, and they don't realise that they each need the other.
Bit late in the day to post this (late from work) but just in case, there is a decent pull-out in today's Times with every constituency result also giving the 2015 result. Easy reference keeper for next time (and who knows how soon that could be) if you prefer paper to a screen.
For those who were on here Thursday night. Philip Davies, Shipley; did I totally imagine several posts on here at one stage saying that he had lost, not predicting a loss, but that he had done?
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
About the same as Jane Ellison and Justine Greening.
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
So Brexit had nothing to do with her losing her seat? It's a view.
As I didn't say that its not a view.
When its only 20 votes any number of reasons are involved and Brexit was probably one of them.
Nevertheless the Leaver Borwick had an equivalent fall in votes to Remainer Conservatives in inner London.
Because the threat of Brexit or at least hard Brexit is associated with the unattractive electorally right wing of the Tories. With a half sane leader Labour would have won on Thursday. Easily.
A standard Labour leader wouldn't have offered to end student tuition fees or been so evidently non-establishment as Corbyn.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
About the same as Jane Ellison and Justine Greening.
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
So Brexit had nothing to do with her losing her seat? It's a view.
As I didn't say that its not a view.
When its only 20 votes any number of reasons are involved and Brexit was probably one of them.
Nevertheless the Leaver Borwick had an equivalent fall in votes to Remainer Conservatives in inner London.
Because the threat of Brexit or at least hard Brexit is associated with the unattractive electorally right wing of the Tories. With a half sane leader Labour would have won on Thursday. Easily.
A big problem for the Conservatives is that both the left wing and the right wing think that the other faction is making them unpopular, and they don't realise that they each need the other.
I'm a Tory Remainer who went along for the ride with May because all the polling suggested it would bring back historically high levels of Tory support. And it did - 42.5%. Unfortunately, it also raised Labour support to historically-high levels, making the net effect utterly pointless (and in this case of this specific election, detrimental).
That is bad news for the tories. The votes there from middle aged people were overwhelming for Labour. This is not just a 'students want free tuition' vote.
Will be interesting to see if the old idea about getting more conservative as you get older has been turned on its head. If it has then the the Tories are truly fucked, they are relying on dying demographic.
Pshaw - the Tory pensioners of today were the flower children of the 60s, and the older cohort is only going to increase in size for the time being.
All the Tories need to do is keep to bribing the old instead of threatening to punch them in the face as they did this time. It's so obvious it's painful, but clearly not obvious enough for Nick Timothy and May.
I don't buy it. Look at the 35-44 split. 50 labour, 30 conservative. If you are going to turn conservative this is normally the time that you do it. Something else is going on.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
About the same as Jane Ellison and Justine Greening.
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
So Brexit had nothing to do with her losing her seat? It's a view.
As I didn't say that its not a view.
When its only 20 votes any number of reasons are involved and Brexit was probably one of them.
Nevertheless the Leaver Borwick had an equivalent fall in votes to Remainer Conservatives in inner London.
Because the threat of Brexit or at least hard Brexit is associated with the unattractive electorally right wing of the Tories. With a half sane leader Labour would have won on Thursday. Easily.
A big problem for the Conservatives is that both the left wing and the right wing think that the other faction is making them unpopular, and they don't realise that they each need the other.
Surely the same applies to Labour?
It's an interesting point. I don't think either party is especially well-liked, even as their combined share has rocketed. For so many people, you vote for one side to keep out the other.
Bit late in the day to post this (late from work) but just in case, there is a decent pull-out in today's Times with every constituency result also giving the 2015 result. Easy reference keeper for next time (and who knows how soon that could be) if you prefer paper to a screen.
For those who were on here Thursday night. Philip Davies, Shipley; did I totally imagine several posts on here at one stage saying that he had lost, not predicting a loss, but that he had done?
No you didn't imagine it, three reliable sources tweeted it, and I included it in a thread header.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
How did Victoria Borwick do?
About the same as Jane Ellison and Justine Greening.
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
So Brexit had nothing to do with her losing her seat? It's a view.
As I didn't say that its not a view.
When its only 20 votes any number of reasons are involved and Brexit was probably one of them.
Nevertheless the Leaver Borwick had an equivalent fall in votes to Remainer Conservatives in inner London.
Because the threat of Brexit or at least hard Brexit is associated with the unattractive electorally right wing of the Tories. With a half sane leader Labour would have won on Thursday. Easily.
A big problem for the Conservatives is that both the left wing and the right wing think that the other faction is making them unpopular, and they don't realise that they each need the other.
Maybe so..strikes me the right of the party are obsessed with Europe to the exclusion of almost all else however.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.
She lived in Vauxhall.
I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.
They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
snip.
snip
We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.
I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
Yeah, that's one thing the Remainers glossed over - All that talk about Kate Hoey being defeated and she finished up winning her seat with over 20,000 votes on the Lib-Dems lol!
If it has then the the Tories are truly fucked, they are relying on dying demographic.
Ah yes another variation of "the Tories will never win again". Why do people never learn?
I'd say the Tories never learn. The only time they've won a majority since 92 is on a socially Liberal, fiscally dry platform. Banging on about hard Brexit, fox hunting and using the DUP lead me to expect will be getting songs and poetry about single mothers at party conference time again soon.
Comments
Upgrade the train line between Belfast and Dublin. Make it a super fast TGV like service, 40 minutes from door-to-door. Subsidise it high heaven, so it's only a tenner each way.
It would be good for business, good for jobs, the Irish government would love it, and it would be a spectacular bribe to the people of Northern Ireland.
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/873058461696774145
The same defence you use for Osborne's extra borrowing can be used to support Corbyn's extra borrowing - ' blah, savage cuts, blah, recession, blah, investment, blah, deflation, blah, actual events, blah, real world, blah. '
So why shouldn't someone who wants higher funding for public services or an end to student tuition fees support extra government borrowing ? Are they any less deserving than extra government borrowing for Middle Eastern warmongering or HS2 or increased overseas aid ?
What is so inherently wrong about Labour borrowing rather than George Osborne's borrowing ?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/10/dup-mps-now-hold-balance-power/
I think the main problem for Corbyn is the left rioting on the streets and causing wide scale disobedience. It seems as if there has already been protests.
The public will not put up with intimidation from stop the war and the far left, especially if Corbyn turns up to protest with them
The interesting think for me is the Lib Dems. The conservatives need to hand out an olive branch to them on social care and health together with sound economics.
Corbyn will not have a free run next time
I think this stance will end up being vindicated.
Just a quick mention of her endorsement by three loyalist paramilitaries and her father's conviction for arms-trafficking and associating with terrorists.
Blink and you'd miss it ...
Hoey was ramped as a specific target by Remainers.
Make of that what you will...
Who was that, and was it genuine info or a wind up.
The Lib Dems, whose English MPs are all in two-horse races versus the Tories, aren't going to be participating in any more Conservative detox soon, methinks. Anyway, Conservatives have enough friends and allies in the Democratic Unionist Party.
Did the canvassers point out Hoey was a Brexiteer before asking the support for George Turner ?
Because that would distort the findings...
20.3% for Aker, but next nearest was 11%, so my bet was not that foolish.
Aker for next head kipper?
Always assuming we have a Cabinet by then, of course.
When its only 20 votes any number of reasons are involved and Brexit was probably one of them.
Nevertheless the Leaver Borwick had an equivalent fall in votes to Remainer Conservatives in inner London.
Conservative + SF = 325
Just a thought...
Another interesting feature of the new Parliament will be the 34 SNP MP's coming under attack from the 21 Scots Unionist MP's in the conservative, labour and lib dem parties. For once they will be seriously callenged
And elderly parents.
With a half sane leader Labour would have won on Thursday. Easily.
Conservative vote falls:
Battersea -10.8%
Chelsea -10.3%
Kensington -10.1%
Hampstead -10.0%
Putney -9.7%
Westminster N -8.5%
I think Borwick might have been the only Leaver in those constituencies.
Now I'm sure that Brexit was negative for the Conservatives generally in inner London but there doesn't appear to have been a specific anti-Borwick vote.
Ok we're leaving but lets be grown up about the best way out. --- Yes again. There are deals to be had. It won't be as good as what we have now. It won't be the last word. The Brexit mess will drag on for ever. But the deals will be OK and a lot better than nothing.
On the other hand their leader is now in a tight marginal, other than St Ives and Bath they are nowhere in the south west and got completel wiped out in Wales and the Midlands. Clegg is a big loss for them and I wouldn't be surprised if Cable starts plotting to oust Farron. And they are still struggling for media attention - barely mentioned in the hour long post-election BBC News special yesterday
All the Tories need to do is keep to bribing the old instead of threatening to punch them in the face as they did this time. It's so obvious it's painful, but clearly not obvious enough for Nick Timothy and May.
Lib.Dems = close to winning Witney? Not even close, I guessed ... correct.
Lib.Dems = could win Vauxhall? I assumed it was false info. ... correct.
Labour = close to winning Canterbury? Not even close, I assumed ... wrong.
What would the result would have been of betting on all the GE 2017 rumours? Most were at fairly long odds but I've no idea how many came good apart from Canterbury.
There was one tip/rumour about Tories gaining Argyll and Bute which was wrong although it came fairly close.
Also she thought that a labour victory meant loads of free stuff but then taxes going up, think she was right about that.
For those who were on here Thursday night. Philip Davies, Shipley; did I totally imagine several posts on here at one stage saying that he had lost, not predicting a loss, but that he had done?
And would have done as well as EdM.
Edit: Does Cameron still live in Notting Hill, he'll have to move to Mansfield as well. Where does Osborne live ?
Edit: Cameron must be used to living in a Labour seat as he moved there when it was Regents Park and North Kensington.