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  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    DUP to get Northern Ireland Cabinet position?
  • I do think the broad reaction (my own included) against either the DUP or Sinn Fein in government along with the shear difficulty (impossibility?) of such arrangements without likely blowing the NI power sharing arrangements up do show once again what a dire situation Northern Ireland really is. They have no ability to truly have a voice in the top level of government of their society and they are only getting more polarised it seems.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    IanB2 said:

    Brexit could still happen.

    :smile:
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,783

    JohnO said:

    Still nothing on the Cabinet reshuffle (which says everything about the PM's weakness: surely even she could fire Liz Truss!!

    Hearing that she might be bringing in Alan Duncan as party chairman might be the only change
    Should go down well with the DUP.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,346
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    As has been said lots of times...

    This was a bloody excellent result for us brexit-sceptics.

    Revenge of the remainers!
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Do Labour have any interest in achieving Brexit? They'll mouth platitudes in support but it's only Tory MPs that are stupid enough to still think it's a good idea.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,924

    GeoffH said:

    tlg86 said:

    On-topic: what the Conservatives need is an Alexius Comnenus type, an arch-diplomat who knows when the push and when not to, and is adept at handling competing interests.

    Someone flexible, with foresight and intelligence.

    Unfortunately, Alexius Comnenus has been dead for almost a thousand years, and also isn't a Conservative MP.

    Which historic battle did the election turn out to be?
    The signs are not good. First of all a formal coalition with the DUP is crackers...as are the DUP.


    Worse stil:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/

    In the F8ck*ng Cabinet ???????


    I'd rather see Corbyn struggling in govt from his minority position
    You are s***ing us, surely?
    Mother hubbard.

    Theresa May considering formal coalition which could mean cabinet positions for DUP MPs

    The Government Chief Whip is in Belfast for discussions which include the possibility of formal coalition

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-conservative-dup-coalition-formal-cabinet-positions-northern-irish-mps-democratic-a7783741.html
    There's no chance of that happening.

    The men in grey suits will send for the men in white coats.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JonathanD said:

    Do Labour have any interest in achieving Brexit? They'll mouth platitudes in support but it's only Tory MPs that are stupid enough to still think it's a good idea.
    Corbyn is supremely uninterested in Brexit. He makes no movement either for or against.

    Starmer and Davis are unlikely to agree on much, neither will Thornberry or Gardiner.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Pong said:

    As has been said lots of times...

    This was a bloody excellent result for us brexit-sceptics.

    Revenge of the remainers!

    With this disruption of our negotiation team we're ensured no-deal Titanium Brexit.

    Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Deeply. Sincerely.

    Looking back on it now, this is the result us hard core Brexiteers should have hoped for.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,346
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
    Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    DUP to get Northern Ireland Cabinet position?

    With the power to impose direct rule on Northern Ireland if Sinn Fein don't back down on Foster remaining as First Minister at Stormont.

    Well, I guess we'd find out how ignorant May was of Northern Irish politics.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,359
    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell(If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    Jumped so far above the shark that you're running out of breathable atmosphere.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    GeoffM said:

    Pong said:

    As has been said lots of times...

    This was a bloody excellent result for us brexit-sceptics.

    Revenge of the remainers!

    With this disruption of our negotiation team we're ensured no-deal Titanium Brexit.

    Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Deeply. Sincerely.

    Looking back on it now, this is the result us hard core Brexiteers should have hoped for.
    Flog Gibralter to the Spanish to get remission of the Danegeld...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    JonathanD said:

    Do Labour have any interest in achieving Brexit? They'll mouth platitudes in support but it's only Tory MPs that are stupid enough to still think it's a good idea.
    Hoey, Skinner, Field, maybe even Corbyn himself in secret all voted for Brexit
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
    Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
    If it wasn't for the Titanic, a million analogies would be missing a killer comparison.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
    Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
    Pat Jennings - one player liked by both Spurs and Arsenal fans.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,993

    GeoffH said:

    tlg86 said:

    On-topic: what the Conservatives need is an Alexius Comnenus type, an arch-diplomat who knows when the push and when not to, and is adept at handling competing interests.

    Someone flexible, with foresight and intelligence.

    Unfortunately, Alexius Comnenus has been dead for almost a thousand years, and also isn't a Conservative MP.

    Which historic battle did the election turn out to be?
    The signs are not good. First of all a formal coalition with the DUP is crackers...as are the DUP.


    Worse stil:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/

    In the F8ck*ng Cabinet ???????


    I'd rather see Corbyn struggling in govt from his minority position
    You are s***ing us, surely?
    Mother hubbard.

    Theresa May considering formal coalition which could mean cabinet positions for DUP MPs

    The Government Chief Whip is in Belfast for discussions which include the possibility of formal coalition

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-conservative-dup-coalition-formal-cabinet-positions-northern-irish-mps-democratic-a7783741.html
    ...and everyone thought the Irish issue was uniquely toxic to Corbyn?
    I'd rather see Corbyn become PM than Sammy fucking Wilson and his ilk become cabinet ministers.

    Get fucked Theresa, you're a fucking pox on our party and country.
    Got more votes and a higher vote share than Cameron ever managed. And much of the surge to Labour was clearly being incubated in the Camborne years. Just ask Russell Brand. The
    'modernisers' did nothing about housing and let the young bear the brunt of sending cuts whilst protecting the old. Corbyn's achievement was in encouraging them to vote.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    edited June 2017
    Decent of the rain to wait for Stokes' 100. Looks like that might be it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    edited June 2017
    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,636
    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
    Boris is a clown! Even Corbyn looks more prime-ministerial
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    DavidL said:

    Decent of the rain to wait for Stokes' 100. Looks like that might be it.

    G-d is indeed a cricket fan.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,993
    TSE - You're also forgetting that in 2015 before the surprise result Cameron was apparently planning for a deal with the DUP too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,972

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
    Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
    I told you before - absolute zero.
    (Lord Kelvin.)

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I notice that the England Women's 11 footy team are rather better at scoring than the men.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    The Conservative and Unionist Party certainly will not do that, I oppose a coalition but if Sinn Fein used to work with the DUP so can the Tories
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,783
    Draft CON/DUP agreement:
    1. All DUP MPs to receive invitations to Ruth Davidson's wedding.
    2. Other issues to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
    Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
    Pat Jennings - one player liked by both Spurs and Arsenal fans.
    Possesses one of the deepest voices on the planet
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288
    Bibilical humour, including within some on-the-nail observations, from the NYT

    http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-book-of-jeremy-corbyn
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274

    TSE - You're also forgetting that in 2015 before the surprise result Cameron was apparently planning for a deal with the DUP too.

    Yes, that's conveniently been forgotten by some on here.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,537
    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
    Your judgment is blinkered.
    Did the Le Pen deflation teach you nothing?
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,295

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell(If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    Jumped so far above the shark that you're running out of breathable atmosphere.
    You've become far too excitable for your own well being since yesterday: I can't think why.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    What's in it for the DUP -- a seat in the cabinet, getting screwed over policy and decimated by the electorate? Does Theresa May hope the DUP leadership somehow missed the fate of the LibDems when they entered coalition?

    Surely the DUP can insist on any policy demands it likes as the price for supporting the Queen's speech and perhaps confidence and supply thereafter. One would imagine they'd be more concerned about the border with Ireland and perhaps a grand committee on Brexit than with a wholly symbolic week or so on abortion limits.
  • atia2atia2 Posts: 207
    DavidL said:


    I think the general view is that this is all about shoring up her position rather than acting in the interests of the country or the party. I do not think she will be able to sell this even if she reaches an agreement.

    The Tories have been selling that, successfully, for decades.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288
    Perhaps Bernie Sanders would have made it after all?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,346

    TSE - You're also forgetting that in 2015 before the surprise result Cameron was apparently planning for a deal with the DUP too.

    I'd have been just as vehement then.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    GeoffH said:

    tlg86 said:

    On-topic: what the Conservatives need is an Alexius Comnenus type, an arch-diplomat who knows when the push and when not to, and is adept at handling competing interests.

    Someone flexible, with foresight and intelligence.

    Unfortunately, Alexius Comnenus has been dead for almost a thousand years, and also isn't a Conservative MP.

    Which historic battle did the election turn out to be?
    The signs are not good. First of all a formal coalition with the DUP is crackers...as are the DUP.


    Worse stil:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/

    In the F8ck*ng Cabinet ???????


    I'd rather see Corbyn struggling in govt from his minority position
    You are s***ing us, surely?
    Mother hubbard.

    Theresa May considering formal coalition which could mean cabinet positions for DUP MPs

    The Government Chief Whip is in Belfast for discussions which include the possibility of formal coalition

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-conservative-dup-coalition-formal-cabinet-positions-northern-irish-mps-democratic-a7783741.html
    There's no chance of that happening.

    The men in grey suits will send for the men in white coats.
    I hope you're right. Surely there can't be many Tories who think it'd be a good idea? Sadly it seems that the ones who do are all in government.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,924

    GeoffH said:

    tlg86 said:

    On-topic: what the Conservatives need is an Alexius Comnenus type, an arch-diplomat who knows when the push and when not to, and is adept at handling competing interests.

    Someone flexible, with foresight and intelligence.

    Unfortunately, Alexius Comnenus has been dead for almost a thousand years, and also isn't a Conservative MP.

    Which historic battle did the election turn out to be?
    The signs are not good. First of all a formal coalition with the DUP is crackers...as are the DUP.


    Worse stil:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/

    In the F8ck*ng Cabinet ???????


    I'd rather see Corbyn struggling in govt from his minority position
    You are s***ing us, surely?
    Mother hubbard.

    Theresa May considering formal coalition which could mean cabinet positions for DUP MPs

    The Government Chief Whip is in Belfast for discussions which include the possibility of formal coalition

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-conservative-dup-coalition-formal-cabinet-positions-northern-irish-mps-democratic-a7783741.html
    ...and everyone thought the Irish issue was uniquely toxic to Corbyn?
    I'd rather see Corbyn become PM than Sammy fucking Wilson and his ilk become cabinet ministers.

    Get fucked Theresa, you're a fucking pox on our party and country.
    Got more votes and a higher vote share than Cameron ever managed. And much of the surge to Labour was clearly being incubated in the Camborne years. Just ask Russell Brand. The
    'modernisers' did nothing about housing and let the young bear the brunt of sending cuts whilst protecting the old. Corbyn's achievement was in encouraging them to vote.
    That is a good point.

    Those people who shat all over the young and bribed the old claimed to be modernisers.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215

    I notice that the England Women's 11 footy team are rather better at scoring than the men.

    I may be out of touch but is it not easier for women to score?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274
    IanB2 said:

    Perhaps Bernie Sanders would have made it after all?

    I've been meaning to make that point. Absolutely, the Democrats made a big mistake not going for him.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726


    May is not going to change her spots. She has never been one to consult or listen on policy.

    For that policy to work, there needs to be a different PM.

    The EU would agree to stop the clock if needed, while we try to get sorted.

    Yep, which ever side of the political divide you are on when it comes to Brexit, if you want what is best for the country going forward from this point you want someone competent to be leading the British side of the negotiations and making decisions on our behalf. That is certainly not Corbyn but neither is it May. I have no faith at all in her doing what is best for the country as opposed to what is best for her party and her own position. I would even go so far as to say she appears to be arrogant enough to believe that what is best for herself is what is best for the country.
  • tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
    Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
    George Best?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,021
    She wants to tie the DUP in so that we get a full 5 year parliament. The FTPA makes it harder to get an election called.

    Of course, it's absolute sodding lunacy, but we're through the looking glass now.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    @ThescreamingEagles Foster has the Tories by the bollocks. That's the long and the short of it really.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    GeoffM said:

    Why all this sudden Ruth thing?

    The first thing she's done since the election is publicly ask for extra sweeties for her client LGTQWERTY base.

    Conservatives should be avoiding this depressing lefty tactic of dividing people into neat boxes.

    Who knew some Conservatives viewed civil rights as "sweeties" ?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
    Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
    Pat Jennings - one player liked by both Spurs and Arsenal fans.
    Possesses one of the deepest voices on the planet
    ...along with a legendary mane

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6KfsD9tpUo
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    JonathanD said:

    Do Labour have any interest in achieving Brexit? They'll mouth platitudes in support but it's only Tory MPs that are stupid enough to still think it's a good idea.
    Corbyn is supremely uninterested in Brexit. He makes no movement either for or against.

    Starmer and Davis are unlikely to agree on much, neither will Thornberry or Gardiner.
    It wouldn't be easy, but it'd be right. We want a British Brexit, not a Tory Brexit. This is one of the reasons that May's pitch to the electorate failed.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell(If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    Jumped so far above the shark that you're running out of breathable atmosphere.
    You've become far too excitable for your own well being since yesterday: I can't think why.
    In fairness Mundell was only just chosen as SoS for Scotland despite the lack of alternatives. The only skill he has shown to date was the ability to keep his seat which, until Thursday, made him pretty special.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    What's in it for the DUP -- a seat in the cabinet, getting screwed over policy and decimated by the electorate? Does Theresa May hope the DUP leadership somehow missed the fate of the LibDems when they entered coalition?

    Surely the DUP can insist on any policy demands it likes as the price for supporting the Queen's speech and perhaps confidence and supply thereafter. One would imagine they'd be more concerned about the border with Ireland and perhaps a grand committee on Brexit than with a wholly symbolic week or so on abortion limits.

    Did the DUP make any pledges like the Lib Dems did on tuition fees?

    Provided they didn't do anything silly - like signing up to a Brexit deal that reintroduced a hard border with the Republic and tariffs on agricultural produce - they could probably win even more support within the Unionist community by being part of a Coalition government.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
    Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.

    I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited June 2017


    May is not going to change her spots. She has never been one to consult or listen on policy.

    For that policy to work, there needs to be a different PM.

    The EU would agree to stop the clock if needed, while we try to get sorted.

    Yep, which ever side of the political divide you are on when it comes to Brexit, if you want what is best for the country going forward from this point you want someone competent to be leading the British side of the negotiations and making decisions on our behalf. That is certainly not Corbyn but neither is it May. I have no faith at all in her doing what is best for the country as opposed to what is best for her party and her own position. I would even go so far as to say she appears to be arrogant enough to believe that what is best for herself is what is best for the country.
    It's not a negotiation it's take it or leave so what matters is who would do best in the circumstance?
    Some politician or the British people just to add to that it's sickening to watch Tories more worried about who is best to win the next election than who can make the right decision for us all. Whist I hate to say it maybe travel junkie had a point
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    JackW said:

    GeoffM said:

    Why all this sudden Ruth thing?

    The first thing she's done since the election is publicly ask for extra sweeties for her client LGTQWERTY base.

    Conservatives should be avoiding this depressing lefty tactic of dividing people into neat boxes.

    Who knew some Conservatives viewed civil rights as "sweeties" ?
    Extras which interfere with equality are 'sweeties' - or another word of your choice which also emphasises elevating one group superior to another.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288
    edited June 2017
    It is noteable that a majority of the comments on ConHome oppose Boris as next Tory leader, despite the site's community having previously been close to a fan club for him.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274
    Yay, Chamberlain to the rescue.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288

    What's in it for the DUP -- a seat in the cabinet, getting screwed over policy and decimated by the electorate? Does Theresa May hope the DUP leadership somehow missed the fate of the LibDems when they entered coalition?

    Surely the DUP can insist on any policy demands it likes as the price for supporting the Queen's speech and perhaps confidence and supply thereafter. One would imagine they'd be more concerned about the border with Ireland and perhaps a grand committee on Brexit than with a wholly symbolic week or so on abortion limits.

    Did the DUP make any pledges like the Lib Dems did on tuition fees?

    Provided they didn't do anything silly - like signing up to a Brexit deal that reintroduced a hard border with the Republic and tariffs on agricultural produce - they could probably win even more support within the Unionist community by being part of a Coalition government.
    Except they might soon have an NI election to face?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,924

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
    Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.

    I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
    Both are good on paper to me but the next leader needs more testing than May received.

    To be fair to May I think she was more aware of the problems facing the country and the need for change than those who proceeded her. But she was clearly flawed as has been exposed now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
    Boris is a clown! Even Corbyn looks more prime-ministerial
    Yes well clown's can win, see Berlusconi and Trump and maybe Beppe Grillo next year too
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    In that case they would have the choice of supporting a Corbyn led coalition or their being another GE. Those are the choices.

    Of course with the numbers the way they are the only way Corbyn could get a coalition without them would be to persuade Sinn Féin to take up their seats. Are they really willing to risk that?
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
    Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.

    I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
    PP is off-puttingly arrogant. I wrote Boris off as having become a figure of ridicule, but if he could rebuild his reputation by emphasising that he would lead a good team, rather than giving the impression that he'd be a kind of British Trump, he could pull it off.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
    Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
    so same as the pakistanis then ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288

    She wants to tie the DUP in so that we get a full 5 year parliament. The FTPA makes it harder to get an election called.

    Of course, it's absolute sodding lunacy, but we're through the looking glass now.

    It would be buying a year or two of power for her, in return for ceding a long period of opposition thereafter for the rest of her party.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,405
    edited June 2017
    .
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    FPT. JackW said: "Context is everything Sean. Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both."

    Hi JackW, hoping you are in fine and fiesty fettle. I had real concerns when May called this GE, not least because it became very evident within hours that she had not even consulted a few trusted members of her own Cabinet or devolved party Leaders such as Ruth Davidson. That set alarm bells ringing with me that got even louder when I heard that both her Comms Chief and Press secretary wanted to resign. That immediately indicated to me that not even they had been in loop when it came to making such a monumental decision to call a snap GE. A huge error of judgement on so many levels. And one only compounded by briefings flying around that May was then expecteng uber loyalty from backbenches on their return after the GE on the back of 'her' manifesto with what appears shockingly little imput or signing off from her elected politicians.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,924
    IanB2 said:

    It is noteable that a majority of the comments on ConHome oppose Boris as next Tory leader, despite the site's community having previously been close to a fan club for him.

    Didn't I predict that the Conservatives would regain Richmond if they won the following general election :wink:
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    nichomar said:


    May is not going to change her spots. She has never been one to consult or listen on policy.

    For that policy to work, there needs to be a different PM.

    The EU would agree to stop the clock if needed, while we try to get sorted.

    Yep, which ever side of the political divide you are on when it comes to Brexit, if you want what is best for the country going forward from this point you want someone competent to be leading the British side of the negotiations and making decisions on our behalf. That is certainly not Corbyn but neither is it May. I have no faith at all in her doing what is best for the country as opposed to what is best for her party and her own position. I would even go so far as to say she appears to be arrogant enough to believe that what is best for herself is what is best for the country.
    It's not a negotiation it's take it or leave so what matters is who would do best in the circumstance?
    Some politician or the British people just to add to that it's sickening to watch Tories more worried about who is best to win the next election than who can make the right decision for us all. Whist I hate to say it maybe travel junkie had a point
    It is certainly not take it or leave it. I would suggest if you believe that you are arguing from a point of extreme ignorance or bias.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,257
    tlg86 said:

    Yay, Chamberlain to the rescue.

    Does he have in his hand a piece of paper?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited June 2017

    What's in it for the DUP -- a seat in the cabinet, getting screwed over policy and decimated by the electorate? Does Theresa May hope the DUP leadership somehow missed the fate of the LibDems when they entered coalition?

    Surely the DUP can insist on any policy demands it likes as the price for supporting the Queen's speech and perhaps confidence and supply thereafter. One would imagine they'd be more concerned about the border with Ireland and perhaps a grand committee on Brexit than with a wholly symbolic week or so on abortion limits.

    Did the DUP make any pledges like the Lib Dems did on tuition fees?

    Provided they didn't do anything silly - like signing up to a Brexit deal that reintroduced a hard border with the Republic and tariffs on agricultural produce - they could probably win even more support within the Unionist community by being part of a Coalition government.
    DUP can extract the same policy concessions, and maybe more, by staying outside a coalition. It's not a question of whether they support the Conservatives but how.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    I was hoping a few other Tory seats will fall in London. Chingford will go next time. Finchley will also probably next time. Hendon and Chipping Barnet looks ripe as well.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
    Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.

    I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
    PP is off-puttingly arrogant. I wrote Boris off as having become a figure of ridicule, but if he could rebuild his reputation by emphasising that he would lead a good team, rather than giving the impression that he'd be a kind of British Trump, he could pull it off.
    I must admit I had not noticed that she was particularly arrogant. She is certainly forthright but that is kind of understandable in her position.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    What's in it for the DUP -- a seat in the cabinet, getting screwed over policy and decimated by the electorate? Does Theresa May hope the DUP leadership somehow missed the fate of the LibDems when they entered coalition?

    Surely the DUP can insist on any policy demands it likes as the price for supporting the Queen's speech and perhaps confidence and supply thereafter. One would imagine they'd be more concerned about the border with Ireland and perhaps a grand committee on Brexit than with a wholly symbolic week or so on abortion limits.

    Did the DUP make any pledges like the Lib Dems did on tuition fees?

    Provided they didn't do anything silly - like signing up to a Brexit deal that reintroduced a hard border with the Republic and tariffs on agricultural produce - they could probably win even more support within the Unionist community by being part of a Coalition government.
    DUP can extract the same policy concessions, and maybe more, by staying outside a coalition. It's not a question of whether they support the Conservatives but how.
    But limos and red boxes are attractive. The only time in their lives they will get the chance.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    IanB2 said:

    What's in it for the DUP -- a seat in the cabinet, getting screwed over policy and decimated by the electorate? Does Theresa May hope the DUP leadership somehow missed the fate of the LibDems when they entered coalition?

    Surely the DUP can insist on any policy demands it likes as the price for supporting the Queen's speech and perhaps confidence and supply thereafter. One would imagine they'd be more concerned about the border with Ireland and perhaps a grand committee on Brexit than with a wholly symbolic week or so on abortion limits.

    Did the DUP make any pledges like the Lib Dems did on tuition fees?

    Provided they didn't do anything silly - like signing up to a Brexit deal that reintroduced a hard border with the Republic and tariffs on agricultural produce - they could probably win even more support within the Unionist community by being part of a Coalition government.
    Except they might soon have an NI election to face?
    Not if they are in government and don't want an election. They could insist that HMG impose direct rule if they prefer.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,346

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
    Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
    so same as the pakistanis then ?
    Nope, without Pakistanis the NHS would collapse.

    And England would be shite at cricket.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    surbiton said:

    I was hoping a few other Tory seats will fall in London. Chingford will go next time. Finchley will also probably next time. Hendon and Chipping Barnet looks ripe as well.

    You think Labour are going to get 40% the next time? Interesting.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
    Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
    George Best?
    Dr Frank Pantridge, who invented the portable defibrilator

    I used meet him in my local pub, he's probably saved more lives than anyone I know

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Pantridge
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    IanB2 said:

    What's in it for the DUP -- a seat in the cabinet, getting screwed over policy and decimated by the electorate? Does Theresa May hope the DUP leadership somehow missed the fate of the LibDems when they entered coalition?

    Surely the DUP can insist on any policy demands it likes as the price for supporting the Queen's speech and perhaps confidence and supply thereafter. One would imagine they'd be more concerned about the border with Ireland and perhaps a grand committee on Brexit than with a wholly symbolic week or so on abortion limits.

    Did the DUP make any pledges like the Lib Dems did on tuition fees?

    Provided they didn't do anything silly - like signing up to a Brexit deal that reintroduced a hard border with the Republic and tariffs on agricultural produce - they could probably win even more support within the Unionist community by being part of a Coalition government.
    Except they might soon have an NI election to face?
    Not if they are in government and don't want an election. They could insist that HMG impose direct rule if they prefer.
    The DUP and SF now have all the Westminster seats from NI with the DUP having a majority of those, so a second election for the Assembly would solve nothing
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
    Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.

    I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
    PP is off-puttingly arrogant. I wrote Boris off as having become a figure of ridicule, but if he could rebuild his reputation by emphasising that he would lead a good team, rather than giving the impression that he'd be a kind of British Trump, he could pull it off.
    Priti Patel is bad news . Look at her backstory. Lobbyist for British American Tobacco.

    Toxic.


  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PaulBrandITV: BREAKING: Former Tory MP Gavin Barwell has been appointed new Downing Street Chief of Staff to replace Hill/Timothy.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,359
    edited June 2017
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell(If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    Jumped so far above the shark that you're running out of breathable atmosphere.
    You've become far too excitable for your own well being since yesterday: I can't think why.
    I don't think I'd ever be so weapons-grade LSD excitable as to hallucinate Fluffy as PM.

    How's your coalition of chaos with the homophobes feeling?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,346
    edited June 2017
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    edited June 2017

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
    Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.

    I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
    Davis does not have the charisma required and Patel is too extreme for floating voters
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited June 2017
    surbiton said:

    What's in it for the DUP -- a seat in the cabinet, getting screwed over policy and decimated by the electorate? Does Theresa May hope the DUP leadership somehow missed the fate of the LibDems when they entered coalition?

    Surely the DUP can insist on any policy demands it likes as the price for supporting the Queen's speech and perhaps confidence and supply thereafter. One would imagine they'd be more concerned about the border with Ireland and perhaps a grand committee on Brexit than with a wholly symbolic week or so on abortion limits.

    Did the DUP make any pledges like the Lib Dems did on tuition fees?

    Provided they didn't do anything silly - like signing up to a Brexit deal that reintroduced a hard border with the Republic and tariffs on agricultural produce - they could probably win even more support within the Unionist community by being part of a Coalition government.
    DUP can extract the same policy concessions, and maybe more, by staying outside a coalition. It's not a question of whether they support the Conservatives but how.
    But limos and red boxes are attractive. The only time in their lives they will get the chance.
    No it isn't. The DUP could get the trappings of office from Stormont, just as the SNP might value Holyrood over Westminster.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,249
    JohnO said:

    Still nothing on the Cabinet reshuffle (which says everything about the PM's weakness: surely even she could fire Liz Truss!!

    That. Is. A. DISGRACE.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: BREAKING: Former Tory MP Gavin Barwell has been appointed new Downing Street Chief of Staff to replace Hill/Timothy.

    Good choice at last
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
    Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.

    I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
    Davis does not have the charisma required and Patel is too extreme for floating voters
    Well you are rapidly running out of choices then.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:


    May is not going to change her spots. She has never been one to consult or listen on policy.

    For that policy to work, there needs to be a different PM.

    The EU would agree to stop the clock if needed, while we try to get sorted.

    Yep, which ever side of the political divide you are on when it comes to Brexit, if you want what is best for the country going forward from this point you want someone competent to be leading the British side of the negotiations and making decisions on our behalf. That is certainly not Corbyn but neither is it May. I have no faith at all in her doing what is best for the country as opposed to what is best for her party and her own position. I would even go so far as to say she appears to be arrogant enough to believe that what is best for herself is what is best for the country.
    It's not a negotiation it's take it or leave so what matters is who would do best in the circumstance?
    Some politician or the British people just to add to that it's sickening to watch Tories more worried about who is best to win the next election than who can make the right decision for us all. Whist I hate to say it maybe travel junkie had a point
    It is certainly not take it or leave it. I would suggest if you believe that you are arguing from a point of extreme ignorance or bias.
    No I'm not they have been working hard behind the scenes and have their ducks in a row, yes it might be a superficial negotiation at the edges but they don't give a flying shit who turns up to "negotiate" whilst we waste time holding futile elections and then more time asking who will beat Corbyn next time. It's turning into the best episode of "in the thick of it" that nobody thought was possibly real. We all suffer from " fog in channel, Europe cot off" syndrome how bloody important do you think we are. Whilst we equable German car manufacturers are re-engineering their supply chain and prepare for WTO what do we do, worry about who can beat Corbyn,
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    JohnO said:

    Still nothing on the Cabinet reshuffle (which says everything about the PM's weakness: surely even she could fire Liz Truss!!

    That. Is. A. DISGRACE.
    Firing Liz Truss or not firing Liz Truss is the disgrace? :)

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    OH YES!!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/873572873469820928

    Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.

    Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
    But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.

    May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
    The DUP might not give such support...
    Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
    Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic :)
    We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.

    See how they like that then.
    Sounds like a good idea to me!
    Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
    so same as the pakistanis then ?
    Nope, without Pakistanis the NHS would collapse.

    And England would be shite at cricket.
    the pakistanis have contibuted bugger all to society, not even curry, thats the bangladeshis

    the paksiatnais are the DUP - teetoal, god bothering , homophobic, funny accents, violence motivated , misogynistic handout junkies

    youd love them
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ya Beauty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,924
    surbiton said:

    I was hoping a few other Tory seats will fall in London. Chingford will go next time. Finchley will also probably next time. Hendon and Chipping Barnet looks ripe as well.

    Maybe and maybe not, the future is unpredictable.

    Labour might have won the Barnet seats this time if it hadn't been so tolerant of anti-Semitism.

    One thing I predict though is if Labour continues to promise no more student tuition fees and the Conservatives don't do something about increasing home ownership then the urban middle classes will continue to trend leftwards.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,249
    GIN1138 said:

    Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.

    What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.

    Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.

    If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,346
    What a hit!
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    nielh said:

    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:

    Greg Clark
    Amber Rudd
    David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)

    All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.

    None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
    Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.

    I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
    PP is off-puttingly arrogant. I wrote Boris off as having become a figure of ridicule, but if he could rebuild his reputation by emphasising that he would lead a good team, rather than giving the impression that he'd be a kind of British Trump, he could pull it off.
    Priti Patel is bad news . Look at her backstory. Lobbyist for British American Tobacco.

    Toxic.


    Non-SPAD experience of working in the outside world?

    BURN HER
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,257
    edited June 2017
    Ruth Davidson has been on the phone. If Scotland didn't get at least a point, the Scottish Tories were fucking off.....
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:


    May is not going to change her spots. She has never been one to consult or listen on policy.

    For that policy to work, there needs to be a different PM.

    The EU would agree to stop the clock if needed, while we try to get sorted.

    Yep, which ever side of the political divide you are on when it comes to Brexit, if you want what is best for the country going forward from this point you want someone competent to be leading the British side of the negotiations and making decisions on our behalf. That is certainly not Corbyn but neither is it May. I have no faith at all in her doing what is best for the country as opposed to what is best for her party and her own position. I would even go so far as to say she appears to be arrogant enough to believe that what is best for herself is what is best for the country.
    It's not a negotiation it's take it or leave so what matters is who would do best in the circumstance?
    Some politician or the British people just to add to that it's sickening to watch Tories more worried about who is best to win the next election than who can make the right decision for us all. Whist I hate to say it maybe travel junkie had a point
    It is certainly not take it or leave it. I would suggest if you believe that you are arguing from a point of extreme ignorance or bias.
    No I'm not they have been working hard behind the scenes and have their ducks in a row, yes it might be a superficial negotiation at the edges but they don't give a flying shit who turns up to "negotiate" whilst we waste time holding futile elections and then more time asking who will beat Corbyn next time. It's turning into the best episode of "in the thick of it" that nobody thought was possibly real. We all suffer from " fog in channel, Europe cot off" syndrome how bloody important do you think we are. Whilst we equable German car manufacturers are re-engineering their supply chain and prepare for WTO what do we do, worry about who can beat Corbyn,
    Ah so both ignorant and biased then. Thanks for that.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: BREAKING: Former Tory MP Gavin Barwell has been appointed new Downing Street Chief of Staff to replace Hill/Timothy.

    Terrible optics -- too easy to portray as arrogant PM cocks a snook at the electorate who voted Barwell out just two days ago.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,346

    GIN1138 said:

    Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.

    What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.

    Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.

    If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
    Parliament is sovereign right?

    That's what the last referendum was all about right?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    surbiton said:

    What's in it for the DUP -- a seat in the cabinet, getting screwed over policy and decimated by the electorate? Does Theresa May hope the DUP leadership somehow missed the fate of the LibDems when they entered coalition?

    Surely the DUP can insist on any policy demands it likes as the price for supporting the Queen's speech and perhaps confidence and supply thereafter. One would imagine they'd be more concerned about the border with Ireland and perhaps a grand committee on Brexit than with a wholly symbolic week or so on abortion limits.

    Did the DUP make any pledges like the Lib Dems did on tuition fees?

    Provided they didn't do anything silly - like signing up to a Brexit deal that reintroduced a hard border with the Republic and tariffs on agricultural produce - they could probably win even more support within the Unionist community by being part of a Coalition government.
    DUP can extract the same policy concessions, and maybe more, by staying outside a coalition. It's not a question of whether they support the Conservatives but how.
    But limos and red boxes are attractive. The only time in their lives they will get the chance.
    Yes, ask the LibD...umm... can't remember. That yellow party led by the homophobe now.
This discussion has been closed.