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  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,408

    The Leavers are in a blind panic over this result, but their government should have taken a more consolidating tone. Fancy talking about crushing saboteurs and erecting giant statues of Theresa. The Leavers are entirely to blame for this debacle. They alienated great swathes of the electorate making them ripe for Jezza.

    I wasn't previously aware that Leavers had increased tuition fees to £9k per year.

    I had thought it was Osborne and Clegg.

    The things you can learn on PB.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,119

    The Leavers are in a blind panic over this result, but their government should have taken a more consolidating tone. Fancy talking about crushing saboteurs and erecting giant statues of Theresa. The Leavers are entirely to blame for this debacle. They alienated great swathes of the electorate making them ripe for Jezza.

    Which leavers? As most sane people keep stressing, both major parties are commited to Brexit. If one hadn't been, the other would have won by a distance
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,934

    At what exactly? Decent political operator/behind the scenes manipulator but his record in office won't be fondly remembered and his skills as a newspaperman are yet to be determined.
    His economic record was truly remarkable. Consistent growth despite the EU trying to commit hari kari with deflationary policies, record employment, deficit cut by 2/3, millions taken out of tax, National Living Wage, oh and he ran a campaign that won a majority too. What's not to like?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    The Leavers are in a blind panic over this result, but their government should have taken a more consolidating tone. Fancy talking about crushing saboteurs and erecting giant statues of Theresa. The Leavers are entirely to blame for this debacle. They alienated great swathes of the electorate making them ripe for Jezza.

    What was that statue about?

    It looked like a #Maystone.

    https://twitter.com/MirrorPolitics/status/871744636590714881
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,917

    Conservative Party needs to be utterly focused, however unlikely.

    The Cabinet and 1922 committee need to now take charge and agree a successor to Theresa May. No Leadership election but with the person in charge, in charge solely for the Brexit period and to deliver Brexit. Thsat person must then stand down in 2019 with a Conservative party leadership election at that time and ideally a General Election too.

    They claim to be a party that puts the National Interest first - let's see.

    A coronation is unlikey. The usual suspects are jockeying for position as we speak!
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    Everyone becomes a Spurs fan eventually
    :smiley:
  • isamisam Posts: 41,119

    Labour's best plan is to stay in opposition and polish their nails
    Back in the days when I was allowed to write threads! This one wasn't very prescient mind, but still...

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/11/24/sam-asks-should-it-be-really-cool-hand-ed/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,032
    Mrs May and the Conservatives will be able to govern as a minority, supported by the DUP, for a considerable period.

    Going into a formal coalition would be a mistake, as it would rule out ad hoc agreements with other parties.

    It would be sensible for the Conservative government to bring in (sensible) people from across the aisle for Brexit negotiation. Make a magnanimous offer that the Brexit deal should transcend party politics. And then take it seriously. Nothing would be worse than bringing someone in for show, and then ignoring them.

    And at the time of the next election, at some point post 2019, a new Leader will be needed (unless Mrs May has negotiated everything flawlessly). But that's a discussion for another day.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    A coronation is unlikey. The usual suspects are jockeying for position as we speak!
    A coronation is almost always a bad choice. Not tested in the fire.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,001
    Worth remembering that both Corbyn and McDonnell do positively want Brexit. A lot of their economic strategy depends on it. They favour a kinder, gentler version than the one the Tory right wants but they will not abandon it.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,236

    I wasn't previously aware that Leavers had increased tuition fees to £9k per year.

    I had thought it was Osborne and Clegg.

    The things you can learn on PB.
    Apparently Leavers were also responsible for wanting to take away Winter Fuel Allowance and for poorly thought out Social Care proposals. It really is amazing what we can do when we put our minds to it even without knowing it.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    The predictions of a Leave win boosting Scottish independence have certainly turned out to be wrong.
    Entirely thanks to Ruth Davidson.

    Scots are concerned about Brexit. In the circumstances it was natural to raise the possibility of independence. Sturgeon could easily have led the narrative if Ruth hadn't been in the ascendancy.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    I'm surprised that Dr Liam Fox hasn't been touted as a leadership possibility. Scottish is clearly the 'in thing' and that, coupled with his smouldering good looks and romantic history with pop babes, surely makes him the housewives' choice. And think of all those trade deals he's already negotiated across the globe. The man's simply awesome.

    Yeah, nice astroturfing there Werrity
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,032

    How could she offer what has already been done?
    She should have done it again. If she timed it right, Juncker would already be a few drinks in, and he would have been completely confused.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Given that 80% of the vote was for parties supporting Brexit I would suggest you are talking garbage.
    I voted Tory because I did not want Corbyn as PM, I know many others who did the same. Remainer's who usually go for the Tories voted to keep Corbyn out. I and they who you class as 80% of the electorate are not the same thing.

    You are just frightened that Brexit has been superseded by this election result. May used to use Brexit as a mandate. I don't think she can now - Please just think on that.
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    marke09 said:

    Corbyn, Hezeltine and Osbourne on Andrew Marr tomorrow morning

    isam said:

    Back in the days when I was allowed to write threads! This one wasn't very prescient mind, but still...

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/11/24/sam-asks-should-it-be-really-cool-hand-ed/
    Fair play!
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Labour's best plan is to stay in opposition and polish their nails
    Agree. Death by a thousand cuts Major style for the Tories.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    kyf_100 said:

    That was before he came out for leave. Boris would struggle to win a raffle in London now if he bought all the tickets.

    The fatal mistake we're all making, of course, is to concentrate on the leader not the policies.

    While her performance was crap, it wasn't Theresa May who screwed up the election. It was her screw-you manifesto that was rejected.

    Ditto Corbyn. Yes, he was a good campaigner, but people were really voting for popular policies like the end of tuition fees and nationalising the railways.

    Very good.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,811
    edited June 2017

    Labour should steer well clear. Let this toxic 'government' dig their own grave. Then take over in 2018/19 after the Tories are holed beneath the waterline.
    I don't see a coalition or formal arrangement with Labour. Rather the government makes a big show of consulting widely and then they adopt what's in the Labour manifesto. They need to get Labour to at least abstain. They might get through on SNP support but that's more problematic.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    I wasn't previously aware that Leavers had increased tuition fees to £9k per year.

    I had thought it was Osborne and Clegg.

    The things you can learn on PB.
    It wasn't tuition fees that delivered London to Labour
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    isam said:

    Which leavers? As most sane people keep stressing, both major parties are commited to Brexit. If one hadn't been, the other would have won by a distance
    Corbyn has a hardcore Bennite hatred for the EU. He's fairly good at hiding it so as not to upset the fuddyduddies in the PLP.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,273
    Don't know much about him but is Barwell a good hire by May? Sign of going back to a more collective style of cabinet? Or more of the same?
  • atia2atia2 Posts: 207

    Yup, he's very liberal, not obsessed about immigration, free market Thatcherite who won't be endorsing May's energy price plans.
    The free market Thatcherite bit is a disaster. This country needs more redistribution, not less.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771

    The Leavers are in a blind panic over this result, but their government should have taken a more consolidating tone. Fancy talking about crushing saboteurs and erecting giant statues of Theresa. The Leavers are entirely to blame for this debacle. They alienated great swathes of the electorate making them ripe for Jezza.

    If Brexit doesn't happen I'll be voting for Jezza myself purely to watch him get into power and then burn Westminster to the ground (metaphorically speaking...)
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022

    Worth remembering that both Corbyn and McDonnell do positively want Brexit. A lot of their economic strategy depends on it. They favour a kinder, gentler version than the one the Tory right wants but they will not abandon it.

    The great unmentioned so far. I can't believe people think the election was good for Remain. May has been weakened but Labour's eurosceptic leadership has been hugely strengthened.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,408

    Worth remembering that both Corbyn and McDonnell do positively want Brexit. A lot of their economic strategy depends on it. They favour a kinder, gentler version than the one the Tory right wants but they will not abandon it.

    I doubt that there are many Conservative voters who want the sort of employment regulation removal some Conservative politicians would like.
  • A coronation is unlikey. The usual suspects are jockeying for position as we speak!
    I did say it was unlikely!
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,953
    rcs1000 said:

    Mrs May and the Conservatives will be able to govern as a minority, supported by the DUP, for a considerable period.

    Going into a formal coalition would be a mistake, as it would rule out ad hoc agreements with other parties.

    It would be sensible for the Conservative government to bring in (sensible) people from across the aisle for Brexit negotiation. Make a magnanimous offer that the Brexit deal should transcend party politics. And then take it seriously. Nothing would be worse than bringing someone in for show, and then ignoring them.

    And at the time of the next election, at some point post 2019, a new Leader will be needed (unless Mrs May has negotiated everything flawlessly). But that's a discussion for another day.

    Cameron was never forgiven for dealing with that rotter Clegg. If outsiders with insufficiently hard-Brexit credentials were allowed to crash the Brexit party then the response would be swift and horrific. I think that's a non-starter.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    midwinter said:

    It wasn't tuition fees that delivered London to Labour
    In truth, nor do I think it was Brexit, by itself.

    Kensington, for example, would almost certainly have been held comfortably if the words "citizens of nowhere" had never been uttered. The contempt that Conservatives have for London is obvious.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,462

    Nope. Stark is right. Look at the numbers.

    Labour gain Kensington.

    You alienate metropolitans and the young at your peril.
    The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.

    They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    THe DUP should be told to FUCK RIGHT OFF. No amount of bribery can be allowed to taint this deal.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    THe DUP should be told to FUCK RIGHT OFF. No amount of bribery can be allowed to taint this deal.
    I don't think you've quite got the hang of how hung Parliaments work.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,811

    Given that 80% of the vote was for parties supporting Brexit I would suggest you are talking garbage.
    It doesn't matter. Parliamentary arithmetic is such, the government can only get Brexit through with Labour acquiescence. What Labour thinks is more important than what any particular faction within the Conservative Party thinks. Theresa May sabotaged the we do it our way approach.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    In truth, nor do I think it was Brexit, by itself.

    Kensington, for example, would almost certainly have been held comfortably if the words "citizens of nowhere" had never been uttered. The contempt that Conservatives have for London is obvious.
    Sure. I agree in the main. However it is a little annoying when the more strident Leavers seem utterly unable to accept or comprehend that Brexit is at least in part to blame for poor results in some places..
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,236

    I voted Tory because I did not want Corbyn as PM, I know many others who did the same. Remainer's who usually go for the Tories voted to keep Corbyn out. I and they who you class as 80% of the electorate are not the same thing.

    You are just frightened that Brexit has been superseded by this election result. May used to use Brexit as a mandate. I don't think she can now - Please just think on that.
    Of course she can. Both the Tory and Labour manifestos included a pledge to see Brexit happen.

    From the Labour manifesto:

    "We will build a close co-operative future relationship with the EU, not as members but as partners."

    From the Tory manifesto:

    "We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union."

    If you voted Tory or Labour you voted for Brexit like it or not.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069

    I don't think you've quite got the hang of how hung Parliaments work.
    The contortions for lefties to hate this will be interesting to watch... presume instead they just go on TM's loss of power
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766

    THe DUP should be told to FUCK RIGHT OFF. No amount of bribery can be allowed to taint this deal.
    chortle

    so your logic is the Tories fail and Jezza goes in to govt

    that should save gazillions
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    FF43 said:

    The key points are these:

    The only thing that matters in the next two years is Brexit. That's because we have a clock ticking AND a gun to our head. Theresa May chose to put them there but we can't take them away now. We must focus on Brexit over these two years and legislate for nothing else that could get in its way.

    Only the Conservatives can provide a working government for the next two years.

    Only Labour (definitely) and the SNP (maybe) can supply the numbers to get the Brexit deals through. The DUP can't do it because of the high probability of a rebellion by numbers of Tory MPs.

    So the Conservative government needs to implement Labour's plan for Brexit by consensus. This implies maximum Single Market.

    The government can ignore hard Brexiteers in its own ranks to get Brexit through, as long as it has Labour on its side.

    A failure to agree this with Labour will result in a political crisis and new elections.

    There's a lot of truth in this. The clue is in the name: Brexit. British Exit. The Tories were stupid to take Brexit on as a Tory-party affair.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,934
    edited June 2017

    THe DUP should be told to FUCK RIGHT OFF. No amount of bribery can be allowed to taint this deal.
    Not sure you get how this Coalition thing works. It doesn't involve another party just agreeing to vote for your policies (unless the other party is the Lib Dems of course but even they seem to have learned).
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    I think I will give TV a miss tomorrow morning, as Toynbee, Thornberry, Osborne and Heseltine are on. Daggers being sharpened at this very moment, no doubt.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,408
    DavidL said:

    His economic record was truly remarkable. Consistent growth despite the EU trying to commit hari kari with deflationary policies, record employment, deficit cut by 2/3, millions taken out of tax, National Living Wage, oh and he ran a campaign that won a majority too. What's not to like?
    How fortunate we know what Osborne predicted:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/7846849/Budget-2010-Full-text-of-George-Osbornes-statement.html

    How many more hundreds of billions did he borrow than he said he would ?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    I don't think you've quite got the hang of how hung Parliaments work.
    I think I have but doing such deals would inevitably weaken an already damaged Prime Minister. Laboiur would have a field day. No thanks ..
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,236

    The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.

    They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
    There is no support for a Pro-EU centre right political force. It will always get swamped and destroyed by the much larger Pro-UK centre right political force.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,917

    I did say it was unlikely!
    ...and I said unlikey! Time to send back the English 'O' level. Sorry!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,032
    jonny83 said:

    Don't know much about him but is Barwell a good hire by May? Sign of going back to a more collective style of cabinet? Or more of the same?

    I was at University with Gavin, and he was President when I when the ran the ball, so we spent a lot of time together. I have a lot of time for him: he's a competent, unideological guy.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    The Prime Minister called this election to get a mandate for her vision of Brexit, she said. She didn't get it. Sufficient numbers of the public prioritised other matters when voting to deprive her of her majority.

    Brexit needs to be rethought. It's no longer an internal Conservative party affair.

    Yes, I agree. May wanted a mandate for Brexit and she failed to get what she asked for. This election supersedes the referendum as she specifically asked for an increased majority to endorse her negotiating strategy. The Brexit brigade are in denial rather like the Remain voters have been since the referendum in 2016. To my mind the electorate want to do nothing, so on that basis I wonder if A50 can be retracted and a new settlement could be put in place with regard freedom of movement.

    The PM is finished as she can no longer claim the mandate from the referendum guides her as a newer national election fought by her on Brexit has proved inconclusive.

    Thanks for trying to input into the real debate about what's best for the UK. But I'm afraid they are more interested in the internal workings of the Tory party do I give a f.. F.. who leads them no but I'm biased or ignorant. They could have added stupid but you do fealing it's time to give up
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    I think some people are over-reacting re the DUP. Let's see what happens, before rushing to judgement.

    Gavin Barwell, an excellent choice for Chief of Staff. Well liked and a very effective communicator.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,953
    Sounds like we're returning to the 'beer and sandwiches' era of Wilson and Sunny Jim, with minister filing into smoke-filled rooms to agree murky deals. What a humiliation for Theresa. A few weeks ago she had a 200+ majority within her grasp.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,408

    How fortunate we know what Osborne predicted:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/7846849/Budget-2010-Full-text-of-George-Osbornes-statement.html

    How many more hundreds of billions did he borrow than he said he would ?
    And if Osborne could borrow hundreds of billions more than he said he would then why would voters think Corbyn borrowing a bit more to fund public services and student tuition fees be so dangerous ?

    You see how the failings can have consequences further along the line.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    The trouble is that you now have a proper Brexit mandate - which the referendum didn't provide. Both Conservative and Labour parties went into the election saying they would implement it. How can parliament now scupper it?
    I've said it before and I'll say again: Brexit was a trap. Whether it's a good thing or not in the long term, it's turned everything to sh*t in the short to medium term.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited June 2017

    How could she offer what has already been done?
    She did offer what had already been done. That was her problem.

    Brexit was happening. It needed to be in doubt.

    Half of the kippers didn't turn out for her. Their grievances got reframed and they voted alongside pissed off remainers to reject the status quo.

    The result is that hard brexit is basically off the table now.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,236
    edited June 2017
    nichomar said:


    Thanks for trying to input into the real debate about what's best for the UK. But I'm afraid they are more interested in the internal workings of the Tory party do I give a f.. F.. who leads them no but I'm biased or ignorant. They could have added stupid but you do fealing it's time to give up

    Since I am not a Tory I have no interest in the internal workings of that party. Yet another thing to add to the list that you got wrong through ignorance, or maybe bias.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    jonny83 said:

    Don't know much about him but is Barwell a good hire by May? Sign of going back to a more collective style of cabinet? Or more of the same?

    Friend of Gummer who also wrote the manifesto and lost his seat. What could possibly go wroong!

    He will speedily be replaced by the new leader. Leadsom will want her own team ;-)
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Sounds like we're returning to the 'beer and sandwiches' era of Wilson and Sunny Jim, with minister filing into smoke-filled rooms to agree murky deals. What a humiliation for Theresa. A few weeks ago she had a 200+ majority within her grasp.
    I think this is good from the DUP. The vote was as much about anti-austerity as it was for a soft Brexit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,409
    BREAKING: DUP to back May on the basis of "confidence and supply" - not a full coalition
  • The mapping of several hugely surprising Labour wins onto areas that were also, very obviously Remain, makes the partly Brexit, and soft-Remain part, of this election unarguable.

    There's also multiple other, sometimes contradictory, but clearly identifiable factors : the working-class UKIP move towards Corbyn, the increasing hatred for the Conservatives in some metropolitan areas, even independent of Brexit ; and most of all the shock of the young , in their almost unprecedented turnout in recent years, almost exactly contrasting with the shocking , and catastrophic, tory alienation of their core older voters, who presumably didn't turn out.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766

    And if Osborne could borrow hundreds of billions more than he said he would then why would voters think Corbyn borrowing a bit more to fund public services and student tuition fees be so dangerous ?

    You see how the failings can have consequences further along the line.
    the tories are just crap accountants

    theyd rather pennypinch on a few billion and risk labour get in and and spend hundreds of billions

  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    edited June 2017

    The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.

    They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
    Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.

  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,273
    https://twitter.com/PA/status/873607495222263809

    Happy with that, not full coalition!
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    I think some people are over-reacting re the DUP. Let's see what happens, before rushing to judgement.

    Gavin Barwell, an excellent choice for Chief of Staff. Well liked and a very effective communicator.

    Poor fellow was jobless thanks to May , wife and kids to support.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    nunu said:

    I think this is good from the DUP. The vote was as much about anti-austerity as it was for a soft Brexit.
    The DUP are best thought of as UKIP in sashes. They're not interested in sound money, they are very keen on reactionary identity issues.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    edited June 2017
    Do you remember Cameron in 06/07, when he used to supply Blair with the numbers to do legislation he agreed with? Labour needs to do that over Brexit. They now have the numbers to run the show and split the Government, probably fatally.

    If we assume Corbyn doesn't particularly want to be PM at 70, but does want to complete his take over of he party, then a smiley clean Corbynite with a clean history and a bit of patriotism is going to win by a landslide next time.

    To my mind, he only people who can mess that up are Labour if they fall apart.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,934

    And if Osborne could borrow hundreds of billions more than he said he would then why would voters think Corbyn borrowing a bit more to fund public services and student tuition fees be so dangerous ?

    You see how the failings can have consequences further along the line.
    I get so bored of this. It is completely pointless. Obviously Osborne should have cut public spending much more savagely and forced the economy into recession and deflation rather than responding to actual events in the real world that were outwith his control but greatly impacted on the forecasts made in 2010.

    Its really childish.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,408

    The result really should terrify the Conservatives. For 15 years they dreamt of unifying the right by embracing Brexitism and winning back UKIP voters, believing that such a voting coalition would crush their Labour enemies, and having finally done it, it only gave them a hung parliament.

    They've now tied themselves to a doomed endeavour. If they can't reverse course they will go down with it, and a new pro-European centre-right political force will need to emerge.
    Perhaps you could reform the Pro-Euro Conservatives.

    Though I suspect they would do no better this time.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,462
    edited June 2017
    LucyJones said:

    Since when did Cameron et al embrace Brexitism? He called the referendum in the hope of killing it off stone dead by permanently "docking" the UK to the EU.
    I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766
    nunu said:

    I think this is good from the DUP. The vote was as much about anti-austerity as it was for a soft Brexit.
    anti auterity ?
    soft brexit ?

    the DUP re the only party in tune with the nation
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    It doesn't feel like that, it feels like supporting a team that went 4-0 down before half time in the away leg, came back with 3 goals in the second half and then in the last minute two opposition players got sent off for fighting each other. All to play for in the second leg.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    DUPed and CONned.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,236

    I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
    Not at all. If Corbyn had not chosen to embrace Brexit as well it would have been a whitewash. May's idiocy was not seeing that that was exactly what he would do since it aligned both his own personal views and his party's best interests perfectly.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,336

    BREAKING: DUP to back May on the basis of "confidence and supply" - not a full coalition

    That was obvious. The DUP would see no advantage in a Coalition. Many of their supporters are economically left wing, but vote DUP to defend the Union, and to get pork from the government.

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Why is TM still 1/5 to be next PM on Betfair? Doesn't the, now apparently confirmed, DUP deal make it certain?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766

    The DUP are best thought of as UKIP in sashes. They're not interested in sound money, they are very keen on reactionary identity issues.
    Id go with that

    theyd fit quite happily in many Northern WC labour constituencies

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766
    Jonathan said:

    DUPed and CONned.

    like LABrats
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022

    I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
    You're forgetting that Cameron chose to hold a referendum. Had he still been PM he could hardly have fought the same campaign as 2015.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,032
    Sean_F said:

    That was obvious. The DUP would see no advantage in a Coalition. Many of their supporters are economically left wing, but vote DUP to defend the Union, and to get pork from the government.

    Today is a great day for vanity projects in Northern Ireland. Anyone want to bet on the first large infrastructure project we see announced?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,934
    Jonathan said:

    DUPed and CONned.

    Have you thought of a trademark?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Since I am not a Tory I have no interest in the internal workings of that party. Yet another thing to add to the list that you got wrong through ignorance, or maybe bias.
    I'm not actually sure what we disagree about I just think that it won't be negotiation rather than a tke it or leave it position and that those in Europe who could suffer by hard brexit have been planning for it already. So the longer we prevaricate the more they mitigate the impact to themselves. Yes I voted remain I've now moved on to wanting what, given the circumstances is best for the UK but the longer we piss about with sill uk political issues the worse it gets.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766
    edited June 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    Today is a great day for vanity projects in Northern Ireland. Anyone want to bet on the first large infrastructure project we see announced?
    even SF cant afford a UI now
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,336

    I meant that the anti-Cameroons dreamt of that strategy. They thought that appealing to the centre ground was a waste of time when they had 4 million UKIP voters to tap. We now have real electoral evidence that Cameron was right, and they were wrong.
    We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.

    I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,917

    BREAKING: DUP to back May on the basis of "confidence and supply" - not a full coalition

    Only slightly less upsetting. No formal agreement please, no concessions!

    Mrs May has the whip hand over Mrs Foster with the Queen's Speech. 'Support me, or I give you Corbyn' should be concession enough from Mrs May.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,119
    edited June 2017
    Farage is 5/4 to be next UKIP leader.. has to be about 1/10 hasn't it?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771
    When's this poll coming out telling us what the voters want Mrs May to do (Leave or Remain in Downing) ?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771
    edited June 2017

    BREAKING: DUP to back May on the basis of "confidence and supply" - not a full coalition

    Sensible.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766

    Only slightly less upsetting. No formal agreement please, no concessions!

    Mrs May has the whip hand over Mrs Foster with the Queen's Speech. 'Support me, or I give you Corbyn' should be concession enough from Mrs May.
    you hvent done the westminster numbers have you
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,462
    rcs1000 said:

    Today is a great day for vanity projects in Northern Ireland. Anyone want to bet on the first large infrastructure project we see announced?
    A border wall?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,934
    rcs1000 said:

    Today is a great day for vanity projects in Northern Ireland. Anyone want to bet on the first large infrastructure project we see announced?
    Perhaps we could cut Theresa May's head off that ridiculous statue thing put up on the cliffs at Dover and put the Queen's on it instead and then set it up somewhere uninflamatory like Londonderry.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Quincel said:

    Why is TM still 1/5 to be next PM on Betfair? Doesn't the, now apparently confirmed, DUP deal make it certain?

    Depends if she lasts until State Opening?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771
    isam said:

    Farage is 5/4 to be next UKIP leader.. has to be about 1/10 hasn't it?

    Nigel will be back next week I think.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766

    A border wall?
    nonsence

    fill in the Irish \Sea
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,032
    Sean_F said:

    We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.

    I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
    My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.

    She lived in Vauxhall.

    I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Sean_F said:

    We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.

    I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
    How did Victoria Borwick do?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,119
    GIN1138 said:

    Nigel will be back next week I think.
    I asked Betfred for 2k, they said £50 and cut to 4/7 :disappointed:

    Ladbrokes are EVS
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766
    rcs1000 said:

    My (23 year old) assistant told that she'd voted Labour to protest against Brexit. I asked which constituency she was in. She didn't know. I asked for the name of the MP she'd voted for. She didn't know. I asked for her postcode.

    She lived in Vauxhall.

    I didn't tell her about my bet. Nor did I tell her that Kate Hoey was a Brexiteer.
    brilliant
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771
    Sean_F said:

    We have real electoral evidence that your stance on the EU is backed by a very small minority.

    I mean, Kate Hoey got 31,000 votes when Gina Miller thought she'd be defeated.
    Yeah, that's one thing the Remainers glossed over - All that talk about Kate Hoey being defeated and she finished up winning her seat with over 20,000 votes on the Lib-Dems lol!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,032

    A border wall?
    The DUP, despite their FTP views, is in favour of the continuation of the Common Travel Area.
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    GIN1138 said:

    DUP ministers in the Cabinet would have been interesting!
  • What was that statue about?

    It looked like a #Maystone.

    https://twitter.com/MirrorPolitics/status/871744636590714881
    Has it been taken down yet? Probably covered in seagull shite by now anyway.
This discussion has been closed.