Do Labour have any interest in achieving Brexit? They'll mouth platitudes in support but it's only Tory MPs that are stupid enough to still think it's a good idea.
Corbyn is supremely uninterested in Brexit. He makes no movement either for or against.
Starmer and Davis are unlikely to agree on much, neither will Thornberry or Gardiner.
It wouldn't be easy, but it'd be right. We want a British Brexit, not a Tory Brexit. This is one of the reasons that May's pitch to the electorate failed.
no it wasn't it was the manifesto disaster of the social care announcement that a lost her majority and not turning up at the debates . It had nothing to do with the Brexit stance at all. if she'd had a half decent manifesto she would be riding high on a large majority now
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
Me to... But that's what's going to happen I think.
It will be interetsing to see where the fury of the Leavers ends up.
For myself I'd probably vote for Jezza purely to take revenge on the treacherous elite... But everyone will have a different view on what form their revenge should take.
Of course with the numbers the way they are the only way Corbyn could get a coalition without them would be to persuade Sinn Féin to take up their seats. Are they really willing to risk that?
I keep on seeing the supposed possibility of Sinn Fein MPs taking up their seats being raised.
Even if Corbyn were to promise Sinn Fein a border poll, with HMG providing tacit support for Northern Ireland leaving the UK (something that the DUP and Tories would have the numbers to block anyway) there is still no chance of Sinn Fein taking up their seats in the Commons.
I'm surprised that Dr Liam Fox hasn't been touted as a leadership possibility. Scottish is clearly the 'in thing' and that, coupled with his smouldering good looks and romantic history with pop babes, surely makes him the housewives' choice. And think of all those trade deals he's already negotiated across the globe. The man's simply awesome.
Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:
Greg Clark Amber Rudd David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)
All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.
None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.
I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
Davis does not have the charisma required and Patel is too extreme for floating voters
Well you are rapidly running out of choices then.
Apart from Boris who has charisma and won Labour London twice
Great thread Mr Meeks, I can’t see the Tories gaining anything by TMay standing down immediately, but a replacement must be found from within the party, and found soon. None of the big frontbench names appeal to me personally and each comes with some pretty shitty baggage imho. – My advice, look to the younger faces in the back benches and hope another Ruth Davidson can be found amongst the candidates.
May is not going to change her spots. She has never been one to consult or listen on policy.
For that policy to work, there needs to be a different PM.
The EU would agree to stop the clock if needed, while we try to get sorted.
Yep, which ever side of the political divide you are on when it comes to Brexit, if you want what is best for the country going forward from this point you want someone competent to be leading the British side of the negotiations and making decisions on our behalf. That is certainly not Corbyn but neither is it May. I have no faith at all in her doing what is best for the country as opposed to what is best for her party and her own position. I would even go so far as to say she appears to be arrogant enough to believe that what is best for herself is what is best for the country.
It's not a negotiation it's take it or leave so what matters is who would do best in the circumstance? Some politician or the British people just to add to that it's sickening to watch Tories more worried about who is best to win the next election than who can make the right decision for us all. Whist I hate to say it maybe travel junkie had a point
It is certainly not take it or leave it. I would suggest if you believe that you are arguing from a point of extreme ignorance or bias.
No I'm not they have been working hard behind the scenes and have their ducks in a row, yes it might be a superficial negotiation at the edges but they don't give a flying shit who turns up to "negotiate" whilst we waste time holding futile elections and then more time asking who will beat Corbyn next time. It's turning into the best episode of "in the thick of it" that nobody thought was possibly real. We all suffer from " fog in channel, Europe cot off" syndrome how bloody important do you think we are. Whilst we equable German car manufacturers are re-engineering their supply chain and prepare for WTO what do we do, worry about who can beat Corbyn,
Ah so both ignorant and biased then. Thanks for that.
What is ignorant or biased about view that says the future of the UK is more important than which person leads the Tories?
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
It's about time that Leavers recognise that the voters at the general election had more pressing concerns than securing a hard Brexit. If they didn't, they'd have voted Conservative in greater numbers, as sought by the Prime Minister.
Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:
Greg Clark Amber Rudd David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)
All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.
None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.
I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
David Davis is probably the best bet for leader. Needs to be a leaver who does a Nixon to China on Brexit.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
It's about time that Leavers recognise that the voters at the general election had more pressing concerns than securing a hard Brexit. If they didn't, they'd have voted Conservative in greater numbers, as sought by the Prime Minister.
I didn't say they hadn't got concerns about the PM's approach.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
It's about time that Leavers recognise that the voters at the general election had more pressing concerns than securing a hard Brexit. If they didn't, they'd have voted Conservative in greater numbers, as sought by the Prime Minister.
I agree
so can we stop claiming its all about angry remainers
I was hoping a few other Tory seats will fall in London. Chingford will go next time. Finchley will also probably next time. Hendon and Chipping Barnet looks ripe as well.
You think Labour are going to get 40% the next time? Interesting.
Chingford will go anyway. Look at the trend of the last few elections.
Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:
Greg Clark Amber Rudd David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)
All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.
None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.
I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
David Davis is probably the best bet for leader. Needs to be a leaver who does a Nixon to China on Brexit.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
It's about time that Leavers recognise that the voters at the general election had more pressing concerns than securing a hard Brexit. If they didn't, they'd have voted Conservative in greater numbers, as sought by the Prime Minister.
So what do they do? Securing hard Brexit is quite easy. You just leave. Any other kind is fraught with difficulty. What do you suggest? Forget the whole thing?
The first thing she's done since the election is publicly ask for extra sweeties for her client LGTQWERTY base.
Conservatives should be avoiding this depressing lefty tactic of dividing people into neat boxes.
Who knew some Conservatives viewed civil rights as "sweeties" ?
Extras which interfere with equality are 'sweeties' - or another word of your choice which also emphasises elevating one group superior to another.
What are these "extras" of which you speak. Enlighten us, do ?
Well, some people did argue against same-sex marriage because they thought it would devalue "proper" marriages like theirs to have gay couples put on the same level.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
It's about time that Leavers recognise that the voters at the general election had more pressing concerns than securing a hard Brexit. If they didn't, they'd have voted Conservative in greater numbers, as sought by the Prime Minister.
I didn't say they hadn't got concerns about the PM's approach.
I said that it's not a mandate to scupper Brexit.
It must be delivered.
In your opinion. The election result shows it simply isn't the same priority for the voters as a whole.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
It's about time that Leavers recognise that the voters at the general election had more pressing concerns than securing a hard Brexit. If they didn't, they'd have voted Conservative in greater numbers, as sought by the Prime Minister.
Nice try.
However, Jezza said we're going to leave and he also said FOM would end (we'd leave the single market) So over 80% of voters voted for parties that said we'd leave the EU.
The two true parties of remain in the UK, (Lib-Dem's and Green) went no where while the remain party of Scotland last half its seats.
I'm surprised that Dr Liam Fox hasn't been touted as a leadership possibility. Scottish is clearly the 'in thing' and that, coupled with his smouldering good looks and romantic history with pop babes, surely makes him the housewives' choice. And think of all those trade deals he's already negotiated across the globe. The man's simply awesome.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
It's about time that Leavers recognise that the voters at the general election had more pressing concerns than securing a hard Brexit. If they didn't, they'd have voted Conservative in greater numbers, as sought by the Prime Minister.
Nice try.
However, Jezza said we're going to leave and he also said FOM would end (we'd leave the single market@) So over 80% of voters voted for parties that said we'd leave the EU.
The two true parties of remain in the UK, (Lib-Dem's and Green) went no where while the remain party of Scotland last half its seats.
But he also caveated that Brext must be good for jobs and employees.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
It's about time that Leavers recognise that the voters at the general election had more pressing concerns than securing a hard Brexit. If they didn't, they'd have voted Conservative in greater numbers, as sought by the Prime Minister.
Its about time Remainers stopped thinking that the election result in any way reflects on Brexit. The two parties to actively oppose Brexit got stuffed by the electorate. The Lib Dems only saw a slight increase in seats because the Scottish electorate disliked the SNP a little more than them.
The parties that won over 80% of the vote had both made clear Brexit will happen. Corbyn knew this was necessary or he would never have got close to May.
Stop trying to fight last year's battles and start looking forward.
FPT. JackW said: "Context is everything Sean. Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both."
Hi JackW, hoping you are in fine and fiesty fettle. I had real concerns when May called this GE, not least because it became very evident within hours that she had not even consulted a few trusted members of her own Cabinet or devolved party Leaders such as Ruth Davidson. That set alarm bells ringing with me that got even louder when I heard that both her Comms Chief and Press secretary wanted to resign. That immediately indicated to me that not even they had been in loop when it came to making such a monumental decision to call a snap GE. A huge error of judgement on so many levels. And one only compounded by briefings flying around that May was then expecteng uber loyalty from backbenches on their return after the GE on the back of 'her' manifesto with what appears shockingly little imput or signing off from her elected politicians.
Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:
Greg Clark Amber Rudd David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)
All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.
None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.
I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
PP is off-puttingly arrogant. I wrote Boris off as having become a figure of ridicule, but if he could rebuild his reputation by emphasising that he would lead a good team, rather than giving the impression that he'd be a kind of British Trump, he could pull it off.
Priti Patel is bad news . Look at her backstory. Lobbyist for British American Tobacco.
Toxic.
Non-SPAD experience of working in the outside world?
BURN HER
Ken Clarke has also worked for tobacco companies iirc.
It's quite clear what the bitter-ender Remainers are going to try to use this Parliament to do.
It was scheming and agitating for Brexit that has led your party and our country into the doomsday machine it is locked into. Brexiteers need to rethink quickly whether their judgement was correct.
The only thing that matters in the next two years is Brexit. That's because we have a clock ticking AND a gun to our head. Theresa May chose to put them there but we can't take them away now. We must focus on Brexit over these two years and legislate for nothing else that could get in its way.
Only the Conservatives can provide a working government for the next two years.
Only Labour (definitely) and the SNP (maybe) can supply the numbers to get the Brexit deals through. The DUP can't do it because of the high probability of a rebellion by numbers of Tory MPs.
So the Conservative government needs to implement Labour's plan for Brexit by consensus. This implies maximum Single Market.
The government can ignore hard Brexiteers in its own ranks to get Brexit through, as long as it has Labour on its side.
A failure to agree this with Labour will result in a political crisis and new elections.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
Parliament is sovereign right?
That's what the last referendum was all about right?
The Commons can of course choose to vote down Brexit, despite most MP's being elected on a commitment to support Brexit.
I think it's unlikely that would enhance the standing of either Parliament or the EU in this country, and would ultimately result in the election of a very radically anti-EU government.
It's quite clear what the bitter-ender Remainers are going to try to use this Parliament to do.
It was scheming and agitating for Brexit that has led your party and our country into the doomsday machine it is locked into. Brexiteers need to rethink quickly whether their judgement was correct.
Why william tell me now that weve declared were leaving will the EU keep us in on the old terms if we offer to come back ?
Must be close to there being more Tory MPs openly against DUP support than there are DUP MPs, thus making any agreement pointless.
Heidi Allen is a Lib Dem in the Conservative party colours for some reason. Expect her to defect.
But that kind of stereotyping ignores the fact there are huge numbers of Tory supporters who think a formal deal with the DUP is the worst idea since Noah's neighbour decided to buy an umbrella.
May should go for minority Government and informal support for the Queen's speech. Anything more than that and she is just making a bad situation worse.
The DUP might not give such support...
Tell them back us, or you'll get Corbyn as Prime Minister.
How'd you fancy Lord Ken Livingstone as Northern Ireland Secretary?
Threatening to blow your own head off with a shotgun isn't a negotiating tactic
We could give Northern Ireland away to the Republic as part of the Brexit deal.
See how they like that then.
Sounds like a good idea to me!
Plus what has Northern Ireland ever brought to the mainland apart from terrorism
so same as the pakistanis then ?
Nope, without Pakistanis the NHS would collapse.
And England would be shite at cricket.
the pakistanis have contibuted bugger all to society, not even curry, thats the bangladeshis
the paksiatnais are the DUP - teetoal, god bothering , homophobic, funny accents, violence motivated , misogynistic handout junkies
youd love them
At last someone to agree with, my uni years were spent in Bradford and by far they produce best curry. Best served without knife and fork on a Melanie table costing 40p it was even free for extra gee and chilies. I'm getting old I think
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
It's about time that Leavers recognise that the voters at the general election had more pressing concerns than securing a hard Brexit. If they didn't, they'd have voted Conservative in greater numbers, as sought by the Prime Minister.
Its about time Remainers stopped thinking that the election result in any way reflects on Brexit. The two parties to actively oppose Brexit got stuffed by the electorate. The Lib Dems only saw a slight increase in seats because the Scottish electorate disliked the SNP a little more than them.
The parties that won over 80% of the vote had both made clear Brexit will happen. Corbyn knew this was necessary or he would never have got close to May.
Stop trying to fight last year's battles and start looking forward.
The Prime Minister called this election to get a mandate for her vision of Brexit, she said. She didn't get it. Sufficient numbers of the public prioritised other matters when voting to deprive her of her majority.
Brexit needs to be rethought. It's no longer an internal Conservative party affair.
Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:
Greg Clark Amber Rudd David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)
All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.
None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.
I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
PP is off-puttingly arrogant. I wrote Boris off as having become a figure of ridicule, but if he could rebuild his reputation by emphasising that he would lead a good team, rather than giving the impression that he'd be a kind of British Trump, he could pull it off.
Priti Patel is bad news . Look at her backstory. Lobbyist for British American Tobacco.
Toxic.
Non-SPAD experience of working in the outside world?
BURN HER
Ken Clarke has also worked for tobacco companies iirc.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
Parliament is sovereign right?
That's what the last referendum was all about right?
Nice try. Almost 600 MPs were elected on a Brexit platform.
But Parliament is sovereign to do what it is like.
Or are you going down the route of your fellow Leaver Andrew Lillico that voting Leave is about giving more power to King Charles?
Yes, the result of the 2016 referendum was about having the right to ignore the results of the 2016 referendum.
The election was to crush the Brexit saboteurs.
Chortle.
The trouble is that you now have a proper Brexit mandate - which the referendum didn't provide. Both Conservative and Labour parties went into the election saying they would implement it. How can parliament now scupper it?
Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:
Greg Clark Amber Rudd David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)
All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.
None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.
I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
PP is off-puttingly arrogant. I wrote Boris off as having become a figure of ridicule, but if he could rebuild his reputation by emphasising that he would lead a good team, rather than giving the impression that he'd be a kind of British Trump, he could pull it off.
Priti Patel is bad news . Look at her backstory. Lobbyist for British American Tobacco.
Toxic.
Non-SPAD experience of working in the outside world?
BURN HER
Ken Clarke has also worked for tobacco companies iirc.
It's quite clear what the bitter-ender Remainers are going to try to use this Parliament to do.
It was scheming and agitating for Brexit that has led your party and our country into the doomsday machine it is locked into. Brexiteers need to rethink quickly whether their judgement was correct.
Still think Scotland's about to secede because of Brexit?
It's quite clear what the bitter-ender Remainers are going to try to use this Parliament to do.
It was scheming and agitating for Brexit that has led your party and our country into the doomsday machine it is locked into. Brexiteers need to rethink quickly whether their judgement was correct.
Why william tell me now that weve declared were leaving will the EU keep us in on the old terms if we offer to come back ?
The old terms were an unsatisfactory half-in, half-out compromise. If we needed to go fully in to reverse course that would be a positive thing.
The ideal scenario for Labour is that May stays for as long as possible, ideally making weekly concessions to the frothing bigots from the DUP. Labour should keep their counsel, just let out the rope...
Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:
Greg Clark Amber Rudd David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)
All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.
None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.
I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
PP is off-puttingly arrogant. I wrote Boris off as having become a figure of ridicule, but if he could rebuild his reputation by emphasising that he would lead a good team, rather than giving the impression that he'd be a kind of British Trump, he could pull it off.
Priti Patel is bad news . Look at her backstory. Lobbyist for British American Tobacco.
Toxic.
Non-SPAD experience of working in the outside world?
BURN HER
Ken Clarke has also worked for tobacco companies iirc.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
Parliament is sovereign right?
That's what the last referendum was all about right?
Nice try. Almost 600 MPs were elected on a Brexit platform.
But Parliament is sovereign to do what it is like.
Or are you going down the route of your fellow Leaver Andrew Lillico that voting Leave is about giving more power to King Charles?
Yes, the result of the 2016 referendum was about having the right to ignore the results of the 2016 referendum.
The election was to crush the Brexit saboteurs.
Chortle.
The trouble is that you now have a proper Brexit mandate - which the referendum didn't provide. Both Conservative and Labour parties went into the election saying they would implement it. How can parliament now scupper it?
The only thing that matters in the next two years is Brexit. That's because we have a clock ticking AND a gun to our head. Theresa May chose to put them there but we can't take them away now. We must focus on Brexit over these two years and legislate for nothing else that could get in its way.
Only the Conservatives can provide a working government for the next two years.
Only Labour (definitely) and the SNP (maybe) can supply the numbers to get the Brexit deals through. The DUP can't do it because of the high probability of a rebellion by numbers of Tory MPs.
So the Conservative government needs to implement Labour's plan for Brexit by consensus. This implies maximum Single Market.
The government can ignore hard Brexiteers in its own ranks to get Brexit through, as long as it has Labour on its side.
A failure to agree this with Labour will result in a political crisis and new elections.
The government doesn't have to implement anything.
A50 has been triggered and two years afterwards the UK ceases to be a member of the EU.
It's quite clear what the bitter-ender Remainers are going to try to use this Parliament to do.
It was scheming and agitating for Brexit that has led your party and our country into the doomsday machine it is locked into. Brexiteers need to rethink quickly whether their judgement was correct.
Why william tell me now that weve declared were leaving will the EU keep us in on the old terms if we offer to come back ?
The old terms were an unsatisfactory half-in, half-out compromise. If we needed to go fully in to reverse course that would be a positive thing.
so we line up for a fucking by the Germans
I can see that might have some problems with the elctorate
It's quite clear what the bitter-ender Remainers are going to try to use this Parliament to do.
It was scheming and agitating for Brexit that has led your party and our country into the doomsday machine it is locked into. Brexiteers need to rethink quickly whether their judgement was correct.
Still think Scotland's about to secede because of Brexit?
If Brexit goes ahead, yes. You can't have both Brexit and the union.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
It's about time that Leavers recognise that the voters at the general election had more pressing concerns than securing a hard Brexit. If they didn't, they'd have voted Conservative in greater numbers, as sought by the Prime Minister.
Its about time Remainers stopped thinking that the election result in any way reflects on Brexit. The two parties to actively oppose Brexit got stuffed by the electorate. The Lib Dems only saw a slight increase in seats because the Scottish electorate disliked the SNP a little more than them.
The parties that won over 80% of the vote had both made clear Brexit will happen. Corbyn knew this was necessary or he would never have got close to May.
Stop trying to fight last year's battles and start looking forward.
The Prime Minister called this election to get a mandate for her vision of Brexit, she said. She didn't get it. Sufficient numbers of the public prioritised other matters when voting to deprive her of her majority.
Brexit needs to be rethought. It's no longer an internal Conservative party affair.
The style of Brexit may need to be rethought - and bear in mind I never agreed with the hard Brexit route that May was proposing. I still have my £100 bet with Richard N. on us joining EFTA/EEA at the end of the process.
But the idea that we can revisit the basic fact that we are leaving the EU is not one that is supported by any evidence from this election. If people wanted us to revisit that decision they could have voted Lib Dem or SNP. They overwhelmingly voted for the parties that said that Brexit would happen - and moreover that said (mistakenly in my view) that freedom of movement should end.
Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:
Greg Clark Amber Rudd David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)
All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.
None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.
I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
PP is off-puttingly arrogant. I wrote Boris off as having become a figure of ridicule, but if he could rebuild his reputation by emphasising that he would lead a good team, rather than giving the impression that he'd be a kind of British Trump, he could pull it off.
Priti Patel is bad news . Look at her backstory. Lobbyist for British American Tobacco.
Toxic.
Non-SPAD experience of working in the outside world?
BURN HER
Ken Clarke has also worked for tobacco companies iirc.
It's quite clear what the bitter-ender Remainers are going to try to use this Parliament to do.
It was scheming and agitating for Brexit that has led your party and our country into the doomsday machine it is locked into. Brexiteers need to rethink quickly whether their judgement was correct.
Still think Scotland's about to secede because of Brexit?
If Brexit goes ahead, yes. You can't have both Brexit and the union.
Clearly you can as the election a few days ago showed.
Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:
Greg Clark Amber Rudd David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)
All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.
None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.
I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
PP is off-puttingly arrogant. I wrote Boris off as having become a figure of ridicule, but if he could rebuild his reputation by emphasising that he would lead a good team, rather than giving the impression that he'd be a kind of British Trump, he could pull it off.
Priti Patel is bad news . Look at her backstory. Lobbyist for British American Tobacco.
Toxic.
Non-SPAD experience of working in the outside world?
BURN HER
Ken Clarke has also worked for tobacco companies iirc.
|George Osborne has worked for Satan
I thought he was Satan.
I've seen George Osborne's feet. No cloven hooves.
Labour should steer well clear. Let this toxic 'government' dig their own grave. Then take over in 2018/19 after the Tories are holed beneath the waterline.
It's quite clear what the bitter-ender Remainers are going to try to use this Parliament to do.
It was scheming and agitating for Brexit that has led your party and our country into the doomsday machine it is locked into. Brexiteers need to rethink quickly whether their judgement was correct.
Still think Scotland's about to secede because of Brexit?
If Brexit goes ahead, yes. You can't have both Brexit and the union.
May is not going to change her spots. She has never been one to consult or listen on policy.
For that policy to work, there needs to be a different PM.
The EU would agree to stop the clock if needed, while we try to get sorted.
Yep, which ever side of the political divide you are on when it comes to Brexit, if you want what is best for the country going forward from this point you want someone competent to be leading the British side of the negotiations and making decisions on our behalf. That is certainly not Corbyn but neither is it May. I have no faith at all in her doing what is best for the country as opposed to what is best for her party and her own position. I would even go so far as to say she appears to be arrogant enough to believe that what is best for herself is what is best for the country.
It's not a negotiation it's take it or leave so what matters is who would do best in the circumstance? Some politician or the British people just to add to that it's sickening to watch Tories more worried about who is best to win the next election than who can make the right decision for us all. Whist I hate to say it maybe travel junkie had a point
It is certainly not take it or leave it. I would suggest if you believe that you are arguing from a point of extreme ignorance or bias.
No I'm not they have been working hard behind the scenes and have their ducks in a row, yes it might be a superficial negotiation at the edges but they don't give a flying shit who turns up to "negotiate" whilst we waste time holding futile elections and then more time asking who will beat Corbyn next time. It's turning into the best episode of "in the thick of it" that nobody thought was possibly real. We all suffer from " fog in channel, Europe cot off" syndrome how bloody important do you think we are. Whilst we equable German car manufacturers are re-engineering their supply chain and prepare for WTO what do we do, worry about who can beat Corbyn,
Call me a headbanger if it makes you feel better, but I think the 5th largest economy in the world is at least a teeny bit important to the EU.
Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:
Greg Clark Amber Rudd David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)
All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.
None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.
I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
PP is off-puttingly arrogant. I wrote Boris off as having become a figure of ridicule, but if he could rebuild his reputation by emphasising that he would lead a good team, rather than giving the impression that he'd be a kind of British Trump, he could pull it off.
Priti Patel is bad news . Look at her backstory. Lobbyist for British American Tobacco.
Toxic.
Non-SPAD experience of working in the outside world?
BURN HER
Ken Clarke has also worked for tobacco companies iirc.
|George Osborne has worked for Satan
No wonder he is so good.
At what exactly? Decent political operator/behind the scenes manipulator but his record in office won't be fondly remembered and his skills as a newspaperman are yet to be determined.
Theresa May is done. On that I think we can (nearly) all agree.
What happens after she's gone is another matter... I suspect it will involve lots and lots of spades and soil to bury Brexit.
Brexit 2016-2017. RIP.
If the newly elected crop of MPs think the GE2017 results are a mandate to scupper Brexit, I think they will be making a very grave mistake.
Parliament is sovereign right?
That's what the last referendum was all about right?
Nice try. Almost 600 MPs were elected on a Brexit platform.
But Parliament is sovereign to do what it is like.
Or are you going down the route of your fellow Leaver Andrew Lillico that voting Leave is about giving more power to King Charles?
Yes, the result of the 2016 referendum was about having the right to ignore the results of the 2016 referendum.
The election was to crush the Brexit saboteurs.
Chortle.
The trouble is that you now have a proper Brexit mandate - which the referendum didn't provide. Both Conservative and Labour parties went into the election saying they would implement it. How can parliament now scupper it?
On-topic: what the Conservatives need is an Alexius Comnenus type, an arch-diplomat who knows when the push and when not to, and is adept at handling competing interests.
Someone flexible, with foresight and intelligence.
Unfortunately, Alexius Comnenus has been dead for almost a thousand years, and also isn't a Conservative MP.
Which historic battle did the election turn out to be?
The signs are not good. First of all a formal coalition with the DUP is crackers...as are the DUP.
...and everyone thought the Irish issue was uniquely toxic to Corbyn?
I'd rather see Corbyn become PM than Sammy fucking Wilson and his ilk become cabinet ministers.
Get fucked Theresa, you're a fucking pox on our party and country.
I think the general view is that this is all about shoring up her position rather than acting in the interests of the country or the party. I do not think she will be able to sell this even if she reaches an agreement.
The ideal situation for Labour is the Con-DUP pact. The gift that will keep on giving.
The only thing that matters in the next two years is Brexit. That's because we have a clock ticking AND a gun to our head. Theresa May chose to put them there but we can't take them away now. We must focus on Brexit over these two years and legislate for nothing else that could get in its way.
Only the Conservatives can provide a working government for the next two years.
Only Labour (definitely) and the SNP (maybe) can supply the numbers to get the Brexit deals through. The DUP can't do it because of the high probability of a rebellion by numbers of Tory MPs.
So the Conservative government needs to implement Labour's plan for Brexit by consensus. This implies maximum Single Market.
The government can ignore hard Brexiteers in its own ranks to get Brexit through, as long as it has Labour on its side.
A failure to agree this with Labour will result in a political crisis and new elections.
The government doesn't have to implement anything.
A50 has been triggered and two years afterwards the UK ceases to be a member of the EU.
I suppose. I don't think the public would forgive a government and party that deliberately crashed HMS United Kingdom onto the rocks.
The Leavers are in a blind panic over this result, but their government should have taken a more consolidating tone. Fancy talking about crushing saboteurs and erecting giant statues of Theresa. The Leavers are entirely to blame for this debacle. They alienated great swathes of the electorate making them ripe for Jezza.
Conservative Party needs to be utterly focused, however unlikely.
The Cabinet and 1922 committee need to now take charge and agree a successor to Theresa May. No Leadership election but with the person in charge, in charge solely for the Brexit period and to deliver Brexit. Thsat person must then stand down in 2019 with a Conservative party leadership election at that time and ideally a General Election too.
They claim to be a party that puts the National Interest first - let's see.
I think May should stay PM for the time being, the DUP will back her and Cameron and Callaghan led governments without a parliamentary majority for years. Gillard did the same in Australia and Harper in Canada under the Westminster style system. However the Tories should pick a different leader for the next election
Callaghan would be a worrying precedent for the Tory party and Cameron led a coalition while in ascendancy not in free fall.
Callaghan followed 2 snap elections, it took Labour under Wilson two elections in Feb 1974 when they were largest party in a hung parliament and October 1974 when they got a small majority to get a majority and this year may be similar
Labour should steer well clear. Let this toxic 'government' dig their own grave. Then take over in 2018/19 after the Tories are holed beneath the waterline.
The Prime Minister called this election to get a mandate for her vision of Brexit, she said. She didn't get it. Sufficient numbers of the public prioritised other matters when voting to deprive her of her majority.
Brexit needs to be rethought. It's no longer an internal Conservative party affair.
Yes, I agree. May wanted a mandate for Brexit and she failed to get what she asked for. This election supersedes the referendum as she specifically asked for an increased majority to endorse her negotiating strategy. The Brexit brigade are in denial rather like the Remain voters have been since the referendum in 2016. To my mind the electorate want to do nothing, so on that basis I wonder if A50 can be retracted and a new settlement could be put in place with regard freedom of movement.
The PM is finished as she can no longer claim the mandate from the referendum guides her as a newer national election fought by her on Brexit has proved inconclusive.
Of the current cabinet members, my preference for the next leader would be:
Greg Clark Amber Rudd David Mundell (If we can't have Ruth, why not?)
All three are non-tribalists within the party and team players.
None have the charisma required to beat Corbyn now and are all too establishment former Remain backers like May, only Boris does
Not for me. I would not actively oppose him but I think he would be more of a liability than an asset in the long run.
I think it has to be a Leaver and the only two I think would be suitable would be David Davis - for a safe pair of hands and because of his anti-statist views- or Priti Patel because she is young, intelligent, a very good communicator and has none of the baggage of the old post Thatcher wilderness years party.
Davis does not have the charisma required and Patel is too extreme for floating voters
Well you are rapidly running out of choices then.
Apart from Boris who has charisma and won Labour London twice
That was before he came out for leave. Boris would struggle to win a raffle in London now if he bought all the tickets.
The fatal mistake we're all making, of course, is to concentrate on the leader not the policies.
While her performance was crap, it wasn't Theresa May who screwed up the election. It was her screw-you manifesto that was rejected.
Ditto Corbyn. Yes, he was a good campaigner, but people were really voting for popular policies like the end of tuition fees and nationalising the railways.
It's quite clear what the bitter-ender Remainers are going to try to use this Parliament to do.
It was scheming and agitating for Brexit that has led your party and our country into the doomsday machine it is locked into. Brexiteers need to rethink quickly whether their judgement was correct.
Still think Scotland's about to secede because of Brexit?
If Brexit goes ahead, yes. You can't have both Brexit and the union.
The Scots seem to disagree.
The predictions of a Leave win boosting Scottish independence have certainly turned out to be wrong.
The Leavers are in a blind panic over this result, but their government should have taken a more consolidating tone. Fancy talking about crushing saboteurs and erecting giant statues of Theresa. The Leavers are entirely to blame for this debacle. They alienated great swathes of the electorate making them ripe for Jezza.
Offer Corbyn a Grand Coalition for a Brexit deal, a doctor's mandate to fix the UK.
It's the best option. Sticking Corbyn in as deputy PM as part of a grand coalition agreement sounds like madness at first thought, but for the Tories it makes sure Labour are as tied to the final outcome of Brexit as they are and is a way of governing without the toxic DUP. Both leaders also get to look all statesmanlike and putting their country above party. What's not to like?
That it makes no sense for Labour to be trapped like this? Except to Tories.
Labour's best plan is to stay in opposition and polish their nails
The Leavers are in a blind panic over this result, but their government should have taken a more consolidating tone. Fancy talking about crushing saboteurs and erecting giant statues of Theresa. The Leavers are entirely to blame for this debacle. They alienated great swathes of the electorate making them ripe for Jezza.
Still talking utter bollocks I see Stark.
Nope. Stark is right. Look at the numbers.
Labour gain Kensington.
You alienate metropolitans and the young at your peril.
Labour should steer well clear. Let this toxic 'government' dig their own grave. Then take over in 2018/19 after the Tories are holed beneath the waterline.
Yes, I agree. May wanted a mandate for Brexit and she failed to get what she asked for. This election supersedes the referendum as she specifically asked for an increased majority to endorse her negotiating strategy. The Brexit brigade are in denial rather like the Remain voters have been since the referendum in 2016. To my mind the electorate want to do nothing, so on that basis I wonder if A50 can be retracted and a new settlement could be put in place with regard freedom of movement.
Given that 80% of the vote was for parties supporting Brexit I would suggest you are talking garbage.
Offer Corbyn a Grand Coalition for a Brexit deal, a doctor's mandate to fix the UK.
I can't see it, for two reasons. First, you just can't one week say he's a friend of Britain's enemies, a lunatic Marxist, etc., and then say "But do join the Cabinet". Second, he'd be bonkers to accept, unless there was some sort of rotating PM position on offer. We all know what happens to junior partners.
Comments
What are these "extras" of which you speak. Enlighten us, do ?
Scotland are going to act like they've won the world cup
It will be interetsing to see where the fury of the Leavers ends up.
For myself I'd probably vote for Jezza purely to take revenge on the treacherous elite... But everyone will have a different view on what form their revenge should take.
Davies/May wanted that 100+ majority so they could compromise and handle the fruitcakes voting against the final deal , Cash for access etc etc.
Now we have no room to negotiate , the deal they come up with won't pass the commons and we'll fall out with no deal in March 2019.
A50 can only be extended with all 27 + UK agreeing, only takes one difficult country and it's WTO.
Or are you going down the route of your fellow Leaver Andrew Lillico that voting Leave is about giving more power to King Charles?
Even if Corbyn were to promise Sinn Fein a border poll, with HMG providing tacit support for Northern Ireland leaving the UK (something that the DUP and Tories would have the numbers to block anyway) there is still no chance of Sinn Fein taking up their seats in the Commons.
you keep telling me it was about somebody writing on a bus
make your mind up
Great thread Mr Meeks, I can’t see the Tories gaining anything by TMay standing down immediately, but a replacement must be found from within the party, and found soon. None of the big frontbench names appeal to me personally and each comes with some pretty shitty baggage imho. – My advice, look to the younger faces in the back benches and hope another Ruth Davidson can be found amongst the candidates.
See the Sky News ticker for details
I said that it's not a mandate to scupper Brexit.
It must be delivered.
so can we stop claiming its all about angry remainers
its a whole raft of issues
However, Jezza said we're going to leave and he also said FOM would end (we'd leave the single market) So over 80% of voters voted for parties that said we'd leave the EU.
The two true parties of remain in the UK, (Lib-Dem's and Green) went no where while the remain party of Scotland last half its seats.
It's quite clear what the bitter-ender Remainers are going to try to use this Parliament to do.
Chortle.
Sad news.
The parties that won over 80% of the vote had both made clear Brexit will happen. Corbyn knew this was necessary or he would never have got close to May.
Stop trying to fight last year's battles and start looking forward.
+1 ..
The only thing that matters in the next two years is Brexit. That's because we have a clock ticking AND a gun to our head. Theresa May chose to put them there but we can't take them away now. We must focus on Brexit over these two years and legislate for nothing else that could get in its way.
Only the Conservatives can provide a working government for the next two years.
Only Labour (definitely) and the SNP (maybe) can supply the numbers to get the Brexit deals through. The DUP can't do it because of the high probability of a rebellion by numbers of Tory MPs.
So the Conservative government needs to implement Labour's plan for Brexit by consensus. This implies maximum Single Market.
The government can ignore hard Brexiteers in its own ranks to get Brexit through, as long as it has Labour on its side.
A failure to agree this with Labour will result in a political crisis and new elections.
I think it's unlikely that would enhance the standing of either Parliament or the EU in this country, and would ultimately result in the election of a very radically anti-EU government.
Brexit needs to be rethought. It's no longer an internal Conservative party affair.
As I've posted multiple tmes over the last few months, she needed to offer A50 to the electorate.
"If you give me a mandate, tomorrow I will catch the 5.14 eurostar to brussels with this letter in my hand"
The A50 letter should have been the manifesto - but she wasn't prepared to trust the British people.
A stupidly timed election.
She's let the brexiteers down bigly.
Remoaners Party - 12 seats.....
A50 has been triggered and two years afterwards the UK ceases to be a member of the EU.
Kane. One of our own. Phew!
I can see that might have some problems with the elctorate
But the idea that we can revisit the basic fact that we are leaving the EU is not one that is supported by any evidence from this election. If people wanted us to revisit that decision they could have voted Lib Dem or SNP. They overwhelmingly voted for the parties that said that Brexit would happen - and moreover that said (mistakenly in my view) that freedom of movement should end.
Call me a headbanger if it makes you feel better, but I think the 5th largest economy in the world is at least a teeny bit important to the EU.
The Cabinet and 1922 committee need to now take charge and agree a successor to Theresa May. No Leadership election but with the person in charge, in charge solely for the Brexit period and to deliver Brexit. Thsat person must then stand down in 2019 with a Conservative party leadership election at that time and ideally a General Election too.
They claim to be a party that puts the National Interest first - let's see.
Labour are energised.
Labour are back.
Brexit needs to be rethought. It's no longer an internal Conservative party affair.
Yes, I agree. May wanted a mandate for Brexit and she failed to get what she asked for. This election supersedes the referendum as she specifically asked for an increased majority to endorse her negotiating strategy. The Brexit brigade are in denial rather like the Remain voters have been since the referendum in 2016. To my mind the electorate want to do nothing, so on that basis I wonder if A50 can be retracted and a new settlement could be put in place with regard freedom of movement.
The PM is finished as she can no longer claim the mandate from the referendum guides her as a newer national election fought by her on Brexit has proved inconclusive.
The fatal mistake we're all making, of course, is to concentrate on the leader not the policies.
While her performance was crap, it wasn't Theresa May who screwed up the election. It was her screw-you manifesto that was rejected.
Ditto Corbyn. Yes, he was a good campaigner, but people were really voting for popular policies like the end of tuition fees and nationalising the railways.
Labour gain Kensington.
You alienate metropolitans and the young at your peril.