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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Polling understatement of the Tories is MUCH less likely to ha

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  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,709
    Bloomberg:

    Forget projections putting Labour within spitting distance of the Conservatives in the June 8 election. Privately, officials and candidates in the U.K.’s main opposition party are preparing to lose dozens of seats.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-06-06/labour-said-to-privately-be-preparing-for-a-u-k-election-defeat
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,315
    The narrative has now moved to Paris

    I do wonder if plans are in place for armed police at our main polling stations on thursday
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    I don't understand how they can be even close. UKIP total still leaves them 2k short on the most optimistic model. Unless Skinner's done f-all for the last few years ?

    This may be an indication that Tory canvass returns and targeting are not as robust and flawless as most of us think - they may not be reading things correctly. Or they could just be on a wind-up.

    In my experience the Tories have the most difficulty in making sense of their canvass returns, probably because they get more *unhelpful* responses than canvassers for other parties. If the door just closes, or the verbal equivalent, they don't know what to put people down as. Insofar as I have had a glimpse inside Tory campaigns, istm that they focus on getting a target number of pledges, and then getting them to vote, and don't worry too much about how the opposing votes are falling. But I may be corrected by someone with inside knowledge......
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    TravelgallTravelgall Posts: 33

    Pulpstar said:

    calum said:
    Well that's ruined my Jo Swinson as next Lib Dem leader book.
    Sounds like the Scottish Lib Dems are down to Orkney, and potentially Edi West & NE Fife if that is the case. Nicolson sounds confident anyway.

    On a UK wide level Dunbartonshire East was always in my top ten on my models, so it is quite possible that this forbodes a truly dreadful result in England and Wales too.
    A little over seven years ago the Lib Dems were leading in the polls.

    Two years ago a plurality/majority of voters would have voted for a continuation of the coalition.

    Just what has happened to the Lib Dems?
    They seem to have a policy on Referendum that depends on the result?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Pulpstar said:

    calum said:
    Well that's ruined my Jo Swinson as next Lib Dem leader book.
    Sounds like the Scottish Lib Dems are down to Orkney, and potentially Edi West & NE Fife if that is the case. Nicolson sounds confident anyway.

    On a UK wide level Dunbartonshire East was always in my top ten on my models, so it is quite possible that this forbodes a truly dreadful result in England and Wales too.
    A little over seven years ago the Lib Dems were leading in the polls.

    Two years ago a plurality/majority of voters would have voted for a continuation of the coalition.

    Just what has happened to the Lib Dems?
    Clegg always had a hospital pass with the coalition, but Farron is turning out to be a modern day Clement Davies.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:

    @George_Osborne: Diane Abbott has pulled out of @EveningStandard hustings. It's not like someone who wants to be Home Sec has much to talk about these days..

    I despise her, but I do feel sorry for now. This is public humiliation of biblical proportions
    I suspect she has enough self-awareness and intelligence to realise she isn't up to the job of being Home Secretary. There's no shame in that. Not many people are.
    They thought it would be a wheeze and it is a serious business. You might be able to wing it opposite Michael Portillo on the telly but Shadow Home Secretary is a different kettle of onions. Perhaps she is not willing to put in the hours to master her brief.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Eagles, they sought the trappings of power and luxury of opposition. Odd for a party so in love with the concept of coalition.

    And a shame. Many Lib Dems (Laws, Webb, Lamb, Alexander) were really rather capable.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    "Nevertheless, Labour candidates said their leader is still a drag on their party’s fortunes. One said there’s every chance the party will lose 70 seats, on track to get as few as 160 seats."

    This is one confusing election. I'd never even considered that sort of extreme.
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    TravelgallTravelgall Posts: 33
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40178183 Re Notre Dame. Looks like a lone one with a hammer decided to have a go at "Death by cop". Hopefully nobody else hurt.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    YouGov is forecasting Clive Lewis in Norwich South to get around 63% of the vote compared to 39% last time.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,315
    Theresa May on ITV at 7.30 tonight in last broadcast event of the GE
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    glw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Such a criticism would have force coming from someone willing to say how they would reduce the deficit. But if they want to increase it then what problem do they have with it? In short, this is a criticism best made by those who want a smaller deficit not by people wanting to borrow even more.
    "Vote Corbyn for more of the thing I oppose." Hmmm.
    Various economists argued for years that there were smarter ways of reducing the deficit. If one assumes that a different mix of cuts and tax rises, and a different pace, might have had less of an adverse impact on growth then the argument is perfectly logical. Whether it would have been achievable or not, who knows. It's certainly arguable.
    For 2010 that might make sense, it's not what Corbyn and McDonnell are proposing for 2017 which is the mother of all splurges.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    AndyJS said:

    YouGov is forecasting Clive Lewis in Norwich South to get around 63% of the vote compared to 39% last time.

    That might be right !

    Lewis looks utterly nailed on to me.
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    Barnesian said:

    BigRich said:

    On Sunday, on this site somebody mentioned the LibDems using an Egyptian call Center, I was dismissive at the time as it did not seem logical, but I now see that Guido Fawlks is making the same allegation (without much evidence)

    I am skeptical but intrigued, it does not seem like a sensible thing to do, because 1) it has a big risk of negative publicity 2) its relatively expensive for a party without much cash 3) Unless the callers are first language English seekers with a reasonable knowledge of UK politics it has the risk of being counter productive.

    Does anybody know what is happening? at a push I can see the party paying for some privet poling to see how they are doing in a handful of seats, and using the lowest bidder not realizing that they are Egyptian based, but if this was the case how would the callers know who had called?

    My daughter has had persistent calls from this number. It is counter productive and a bit weird. Hard to believe it is the LibDems. I'm stuck for an explanation, unless it is a dirty tricks operation to piss people off with the LibDems. The caller does no canvassing but mentions the LibDems and calls persistently.

    http://who-called.co.uk/Number/002036951664
    Seems most odd, difficult to imagine it is a dirty tricks operation, because if it was found out it could/would massively backfire. Perhaps it is an attempt to be helpful by a well wishing but uniformed, millionaire possibly from outside the UK.

    I am perplexed!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @iainjwatson: Final Opinium poll of the campaign - Cons 43 Labour 36 Libdem 8 ukip 5
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    The spreads have moved a couple of seats in favour of the Tories over recent hours, with the average mid-spread price now being 360 seats, equivalent to a majority of 70 seats.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Theresa May on ITV at 7.30 tonight in last broadcast event of the GE

    What is the format ?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Final Opinium poll of the campaign - Cons 43 Labour 36 Libdem 8 ukip 5

    Much better... :p

    Con unchanged, Lab down one.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    AndyJS said:

    "Matthew Goodwin‏ @GoodwinMJ 6h6 hours ago

    I cannot think of another campaign where the insights from campaigners & forecasters is so clearly at odds with some of the polls"

    Totally agree, anything from a three figure majority for the Tories to a dead heat now looks possible if you believe what we are hearing.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Andrew, indeed. It's a tricky one. I hope people don't mind me reposting the Labour losses, or gains, list (originally -70 was the worst case scenario, I added more at the request of others):
    -100 Adrianople [Malmesbury]
    -90 Cap Bon [Malmesbury’s suggestion]
    -80 Allia [another_richard’s suggestion]

    -70 Cannae
    -60 Arausio
    -50 Teutoberg Forest
    -40 Carrhae
    -30 Lake Trasimene

    If it's not too bad:
    -20 Asculum
    -10 Heraclea

    And, if Labour actually increase their seat numbers:
    +10 Zela
    +20 Tigranocerta
    +30 Zama
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Final Opinium poll of the campaign - Cons 43 Labour 36 Libdem 8 ukip 5

    Interesting. Wasn't expecting a poll this afternoon.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Bloomberg:

    Forget projections putting Labour within spitting distance of the Conservatives in the June 8 election. Privately, officials and candidates in the U.K.’s main opposition party are preparing to lose dozens of seats.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-06-06/labour-said-to-privately-be-preparing-for-a-u-k-election-defeat

    There is going to be a Polling Inquiry MK II...the only thing that hasn't been confirmed, who is attending....
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    YouGov is forecasting Clive Lewis in Norwich South to get around 63% of the vote compared to 39% last time.

    That might be right !

    Lewis looks utterly nailed on to me.
    The more interesting question is whether the Norwich and Lewis effect can trouble Chloe in N North.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The political segment of the internet is full of excited people tweeting today that you can “watch the Diane Abbott Sky News interview in full here.” No, thank you. I watched it once and I never want to see it again. The clip is hide behind the sofa embarrassing. The Shadow Home Secretary suffers one of the worst meltdowns in current affairs television history. It is much more than just a so-called “brainfade.” She drowns for four minutes.

    Abbott used to be able to do it, just about, by which I mean talk fluent rubbish on telly. Now, days from an election after which she seeks to ascend to running the Home office during a terrorist emergency, she cannot even do that. She looks miserable. Crushed. Defeated.

    Make it stop, please. Retire Diane Abbott now.


    https://reaction.life/retire-diane-abbott-now-compassionate-grounds/
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40178183 Re Notre Dame. Looks like a lone one with a hammer decided to have a go at "Death by cop". Hopefully nobody else hurt.

    Europe's most sacred sites have been reduced to killing fields thanks to our politicians. Something better change.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,315
    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May on ITV at 7.30 tonight in last broadcast event of the GE

    What is the format ?
    Interviewed by Julie Etchingham
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    camelcamel Posts: 815

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    YouGov is forecasting Clive Lewis in Norwich South to get around 63% of the vote compared to 39% last time.

    That might be right !

    Lewis looks utterly nailed on to me.
    The more interesting question is whether the Norwich and Lewis effect can trouble Chloe in N North.
    That has way more pensioners doesn't it ?
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,632

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:

    @George_Osborne: Diane Abbott has pulled out of @EveningStandard hustings. It's not like someone who wants to be Home Sec has much to talk about these days..

    I despise her, but I do feel sorry for now. This is public humiliation of biblical proportions
    I suspect she has enough self-awareness and intelligence to realise she isn't up to the job of being Home Secretary. There's no shame in that. Not many people are.
    We have to go back quite a few years to find someone who was up to that job.

    (See what I did there?)
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259

    Bloomberg:

    Forget projections putting Labour within spitting distance of the Conservatives in the June 8 election. Privately, officials and candidates in the U.K.’s main opposition party are preparing to lose dozens of seats.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-06-06/labour-said-to-privately-be-preparing-for-a-u-k-election-defeat

    Corbyn has to be thrashed. It has to be done. If he stays on he could become PM in 2020, when the Tories will be very unpopular no doubt thanks to Brexit, recession, NHS crisis etc etc.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Battersea or Putney?
  • Options
    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359

    Bloomberg:

    Forget projections putting Labour within spitting distance of the Conservatives in the June 8 election. Privately, officials and candidates in the U.K.’s main opposition party are preparing to lose dozens of seats.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-06-06/labour-said-to-privately-be-preparing-for-a-u-k-election-defeat

    There is going to be a Polling Inquiry MK II...the only thing that hasn't been confirmed, who is attending....
    The loosing block doesn't need a inquiry - they just need a description of what the winning block did.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40178183 Re Notre Dame. Looks like a lone one with a hammer decided to have a go at "Death by cop". Hopefully nobody else hurt.

    Europe's most sacred sites have been reduced to killing fields thanks to our politicians. Something better change.
    Would it help if we light up Tower Bridge in the colours of the French flag tonight?
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    YouGov is forecasting Clive Lewis in Norwich South to get around 63% of the vote compared to 39% last time.

    That might be right !

    Lewis looks utterly nailed on to me.
    The more interesting question is whether the Norwich and Lewis effect can trouble Chloe in N North.
    That has way more pensioners doesn't it ?
    It does and a bigger kipper breakfast, but Norwich itself has always been fertile labour territory. I've got 2 quid at 12s on Labour, Norwich swung TO Labour in the locals and there are some grotty suburbs in the seat as well as grey havens.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40178183 Re Notre Dame. Looks like a lone one with a hammer decided to have a go at "Death by cop". Hopefully nobody else hurt.

    Europe's most sacred sites have been reduced to killing fields thanks to our politicians. Something better change.
    Although not clear Notre Dame was the target:

    "The man attacked officers on duty at the Paris police headquarters, which is next to the cathedral, French media say."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40178183
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Rhubarb said:

    Bloomberg:

    Forget projections putting Labour within spitting distance of the Conservatives in the June 8 election. Privately, officials and candidates in the U.K.’s main opposition party are preparing to lose dozens of seats.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-06-06/labour-said-to-privately-be-preparing-for-a-u-k-election-defeat

    There is going to be a Polling Inquiry MK II...the only thing that hasn't been confirmed, who is attending....
    The loosing block doesn't need a inquiry - they just need a description of what the winning block did.
    Got lucky?
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    The narrative has now moved to Paris

    I do wonder if plans are in place for armed police at our main polling stations on thursday

    Clearly the reason for the Paris attack is a lack of UK police officers.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Rhubarb said:

    Bloomberg:

    Forget projections putting Labour within spitting distance of the Conservatives in the June 8 election. Privately, officials and candidates in the U.K.’s main opposition party are preparing to lose dozens of seats.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-06-06/labour-said-to-privately-be-preparing-for-a-u-k-election-defeat

    There is going to be a Polling Inquiry MK II...the only thing that hasn't been confirmed, who is attending....
    The loosing block doesn't need a inquiry - they just need a description of what the winning block did.
    I should have said who is just attending and who is presenting....
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    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    YouGov is forecasting Clive Lewis in Norwich South to get around 63% of the vote compared to 39% last time.

    That might be right !

    Lewis looks utterly nailed on to me.
    The more interesting question is whether the Norwich and Lewis effect can trouble Chloe in N North.
    That has way more pensioners doesn't it ?
    Norwich N is misnamed as only 30k of the 65k voters are actually in Norwich. The rest are in Broadland district.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Labour take City of Westminster?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Battersea or Putney?
    There's also Kensington where the MP is a Leaver in a Remain area.
  • Options
    WinstanleyWinstanley Posts: 434
    glw said:

    glw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Such a criticism would have force coming from someone willing to say how they would reduce the deficit. But if they want to increase it then what problem do they have with it? In short, this is a criticism best made by those who want a smaller deficit not by people wanting to borrow even more.
    "Vote Corbyn for more of the thing I oppose." Hmmm.
    Various economists argued for years that there were smarter ways of reducing the deficit. If one assumes that a different mix of cuts and tax rises, and a different pace, might have had less of an adverse impact on growth then the argument is perfectly logical. Whether it would have been achievable or not, who knows. It's certainly arguable.
    For 2010 that might make sense, it's not what Corbyn and McDonnell are proposing for 2017 which is the mother of all splurges.
    You could be right, but they've had some support from economists this year: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/jun/03/the-big-issue-labour-manifesto-what-economy-needs

    I think this year we're (almost) having the debate we should have had in 2010 and 2015. The Tories low-key arguing to turn into a tax-haven to spite Europe and Labour loudly arguing for a more interventionist model to revive industries. We need some kind of fundamental restructuring of our role in the world economy or else it's just a slow decline.

    It's funny how things turn and the Left is now seen as pro-debt. Karl Marx hated governmental debt, saw it as a roundabout way of boosting faltering profits by a sneaky redistribution of citizens' income to capital...
  • Options
    llefllef Posts: 298

    Floater said:

    Seems harsh - he won't even have reached Downing Street by then.

    https://twitter.com/JonathanPlaid/status/871976807771381760

    Shit - need more popcorn
    And at 2201 almost no Labour MP can truly know if they still have a seat!
    JonathanPlaid calling most of the Labour MPs red tories just shows why Plaid are probably going to get stuffed outside the north west this year.
    Plaid set themselves up to be socialists red in tooth and claw, and Corbyn's Labour Party have just upped the spend&borrow&class war ante, and blown them away!
    I would hope that a big defeat would make Plaid develop more coherent, attractive and plausible policies, but I fear they would just take it as a signal that they need to up the socialist ante another couple of notches.

    Floater said:

    Seems harsh - he won't even have reached Downing Street by then.

    https://twitter.com/JonathanPlaid/status/871976807771381760

    Shit - need more popcorn
    And at 2201 almost no Labour MP can truly know if they still have a seat!
    JonathanPlaid calling most of the Labour MPs red tories just shows why Plaid are probably going to get stuffed outside the north west this year.
    Plaid set themselves up to be socialists red in tooth and claw, and Corbyn's Labour Party have just upped the spend&borrow&class war ante, and blown them away!
    I would hope that a big defeat would make Plaid develop more coherent, attractive and plausible policies, but I fear they would just take it as a signal that they need to up the socialist ante another couple of notches.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Final Opinium poll of the campaign - Cons 43 Labour 36 Libdem 8 ukip 5

    Much better... :p

    Con unchanged, Lab down one.
    It's MOE stuff - and no sign of herding.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Battersea or Putney?
    No. Far more incredible.
  • Options
    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    YouGov is forecasting Clive Lewis in Norwich South to get around 63% of the vote compared to 39% last time.

    That might be right !

    Lewis looks utterly nailed on to me.
    The more interesting question is whether the Norwich and Lewis effect can trouble Chloe in N North.
    That has way more pensioners doesn't it ?
    Norwich N is misnamed as only 30k of the 65k voters are actually in Norwich. The rest are in Broadland district.
    But that half are very labour and the Green presence is disintegrating. It's a winnable seat against the tide. 12s is long but they are obviously odds against.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    YouGov's Battersea Labour Lean looking like coming off?
  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    Pulpstar said:

    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Battersea or Putney?
    No. Far more incredible.
    Boris?
  • Options
    TravelJunkieTravelJunkie Posts: 431

    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Labour take City of Westminster?
    I've heard that chipping barnet will be under 5k majority for the tories and IDS wont get anywhere near 20k votes.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394
    IanB2 said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    I don't understand how they can be even close. UKIP total still leaves them 2k short on the most optimistic model. Unless Skinner's done f-all for the last few years ?

    This may be an indication that Tory canvass returns and targeting are not as robust and flawless as most of us think - they may not be reading things correctly. Or they could just be on a wind-up.

    In my experience the Tories have the most difficulty in making sense of their canvass returns, probably because they get more *unhelpful* responses than canvassers for other parties. If the door just closes, or the verbal equivalent, they don't know what to put people down as. Insofar as I have had a glimpse inside Tory campaigns, istm that they focus on getting a target number of pledges, and then getting them to vote, and don't worry too much about how the opposing votes are falling. But I may be corrected by someone with inside knowledge......
    An experienced Tory canvasser would put
    such doors down as "Against":

    "C" - Conservative: "I'm definitely for you.",
    "You don't need to knock on my door!", "Good
    luck mate.", "How's it going elsewhere?"

    "P" - Probable Conservative: "I usually vote
    Conservative, but I'm not very happy with your
    campaign.", "Yeah, I usually do and probably will."

    "U" - Undecided: "I don't know.", "Haven't decided
    yet" - depending on what they say and how they
    say it, can be a forensically analytical floater
    or a non-voter

    "W" - Waverer: "I think May has been awful but
    can't stand Corbyn.", "Worried about security,
    but also the NHS"

    "S" - Socialist: "Always vote Labour!"
    "Wrong door mate.", "No thanks, we're Labour."

    "A" - Against: "Secret ballot - none of your
    business", "Fuck off."
  • Options
    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Pulpstar said:

    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Battersea or Putney?
    No. Far more incredible.
    UXBRIDGE!!!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    twitter.com/mattzarb/status/872083683494293504

    Looks fake
  • Options
    TravelJunkieTravelJunkie Posts: 431
    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Battersea or Putney?
    No. Far more incredible.
    Boris?
    Ian Duncan smith because the vote has collapsed but i didnt believe it.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Bang goes my hopes of Skinner becoming the father of the house…
    Nah, no matter the result in Bolsover, Ken Clarke's going to be the father of the House.
    With 47 years' service under his belt already, Clarke will be the most experienced FOTH (in terms of continuous service) at the start of a parliament since Ted Heath in 1997, who had about 3 months' more at the time. If Clarke and Skinner serve through to at least June 2020, they'd be only the fifth and sixth MPs to achieve half a century's service having served in the 20th century.
  • Options
    TravelJunkieTravelJunkie Posts: 431
    Pulpstar said:
    Wimbeldon is ok for the tories because tooting is going to be very close.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    rpjs said:

    BigRich said:

    On Sunday, on this site somebody mentioned the LibDems using an Egyptian call Center, I was dismissive at the time as it did not seem logical, but I now see that Guido Fawlks is making the same allegation (without much evidence)

    I am skeptical but intrigued, it does not seem like a sensible thing to do, because 1) it has a big risk of negative publicity 2) its relatively expensive for a party without much cash 3) Unless the callers are first language English seekers with a reasonable knowledge of UK politics it has the risk of being counter productive.

    Does anybody know what is happening? at a push I can see the party paying for some privet poling to see how they are doing in a handful of seats, and using the lowest bidder not realizing that they are Egyptian based, but if this was the case how would the callers know who had called?

    Does the political party exemption from certain Data Protection laws (including those of EU provenance) enable them to export personal data outside the EEA?

    I don't see Egypt on this list: http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/international-transfers/adequacy/index_en.htm

    Surely a least-cost-routing mess rather than the call centre being physically located in Egypt...
    If you knock the first zero off the "Egyptian" number it becomes a valid London number: 020 3695 1664
    Which does appear to be a LibDem number, based on caller reports. It looks like someone with a mobile that adds an extra zero to numbers in its incoming call log (which happens now and again on my Blackberry) has given Guido a total non-story?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,931
    Pulpstar said:

    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Battersea or Putney?
    No. Far more incredible.
    Please not Hornchurch
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,632
    Pulpstar said:

    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Battersea or Putney?
    No. Far more incredible.
    Uxbridge
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    JonathanD said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40178183 Re Notre Dame. Looks like a lone one with a hammer decided to have a go at "Death by cop". Hopefully nobody else hurt.

    Europe's most sacred sites have been reduced to killing fields thanks to our politicians. Something better change.
    Although not clear Notre Dame was the target:

    "The man attacked officers on duty at the Paris police headquarters, which is next to the cathedral, French media say."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40178183
    Wasn't there an attempt to bomb the cathedral last year? This bloke just sounds like a nutter with a hammer.
  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    Pulpstar said:
    I'd do a smiley face if I could remember how to!!
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    YouGov is forecasting Clive Lewis in Norwich South to get around 63% of the vote compared to 39% last time.

    That might be right !

    Lewis looks utterly nailed on to me.
    The more interesting question is whether the Norwich and Lewis effect can trouble Chloe in N North.
    That has way more pensioners doesn't it ?
    Norwich N is misnamed as only 30k of the 65k voters are actually in Norwich. The rest are in Broadland district.
    But that half are very labour and the Green presence is disintegrating. It's a winnable seat against the tide. 12s is long but they are obviously odds against.
    The Greens only had 4% in Norwich N last time, while UKIP had 14% and aren't standing
  • Options
    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited June 2017

    Mr. Rose, Lab down to just over 3 for Morley and Outwood, from 5 until quite recently (Betfair Sportsbook).

    It is, apparently, a bit of a one-off, perhaps due to there only being three parties standing and Labour's candidate being a long-term councillor. Had another piece of election literature from him today.

    I think it'll be close.

    Edited extra bit: 4 on Ladbrokes.

    Your back yard eh Morris ..... yes it's an interesting one all right, especially with neither UKIP nor the Greens standing. Baxter gives it to the Tories by a margin of 4.5% and if Mrs May loses this seat you'd have to say she's in real trouble.
    Incidentally, the best Labour odds are 4.33 with Bet365.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Battersea or Putney?
    No. Far more incredible.
    Please not Hornchurch
    Looks very very safe to me. 74% combined kipper/Tory vote.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Scott_P said:

    The political segment of the internet is full of excited people tweeting today that you can “watch the Diane Abbott Sky News interview in full here.” No, thank you. I watched it once and I never want to see it again. The clip is hide behind the sofa embarrassing. The Shadow Home Secretary suffers one of the worst meltdowns in current affairs television history. It is much more than just a so-called “brainfade.” She drowns for four minutes.

    Abbott used to be able to do it, just about, by which I mean talk fluent rubbish on telly. Now, days from an election after which she seeks to ascend to running the Home office during a terrorist emergency, she cannot even do that. She looks miserable. Crushed. Defeated.

    Make it stop, please. Retire Diane Abbott now.


    https://reaction.life/retire-diane-abbott-now-compassionate-grounds/

    I have just watched this. It is the first time I have seen Diane Abbott on TV since her TW days and the difference in her ability to respond is obvious - she has become reactive rather than proactive.

    Personally, I think she is unwell
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    edited June 2017
    Anyone know how this compares to Saturday's Opinium poll?

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/872110540348370944
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    The previous Opinium was a 10 point lead, so this confirms the slow trend towards Labour.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    GIN1138 said:

    Anyone know how this compares to Saturday's Oinium poll?

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/872110540348370944

    Lab down 1
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anyone know how this compares to Saturday's Oinium poll?

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/872110540348370944

    Lab down 1
    Pre-Abbot.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    IanB2 said:

    The previous Opinium was a 10 point lead, so this confirms the slow trend towards Labour.
    The previous Opinium was a 6 point lead.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/03/theresa-may-approval-rating-sinks-as-tory-lead-shrinks-to-six-points
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Not clear at all that those national figures would result in an increased Tory majority, unless Opinium have done some specific constituency polling which they're not disclosing.
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anyone know how this compares to Saturday's Oinium poll?

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/872110540348370944

    Lab down 1
    Pre-Abbot.
    I think Abbot melt-downs are pretty well priced in nowadays.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    IanB2 said:

    The previous Opinium was a 10 point lead, so this confirms the slow trend towards Labour.
    Fake news!
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    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TudorRose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    camel said:

    Rhubarb said:

    kjohnw said:

    Oh dear imagine this guy post exit poll.

    Suicide watch or what. Why do people like him not see Tories are winning this with an increased Majority

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/872081057058889728

    He is going to be in for a very traumatic Friday
    Poor lad, I don’t envy his taxi passengers next Friday either…
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/872088486488276993
    Skinner really would be someone to stay up for; though if he's at risk then that puts a very odd chunk of South Yorkshire into play.
    Really don't know what to make of these stories coming out of Labour and tory hqs. Bosolver would be huge.

    But it makes yougov and survation horrendously wrong. I dont know.
    I'd be surprised about Bolsover because although on Brexit grounds it ought to show potential for the Tories, Skinner was himself a Leaver. Whether he still has that much of a personal vote I don't know. You'd have thought that he should but if he's taken the place for granted and preferred to grandstand about his own personal hobby horses instead, it might have evaporated. I saw that happen with Marcus Fox pre-1997 (that wasn't so much about grandstanding as putting the 1922 and his directorships ahead of his constituents but the principle's the same).

    What I will say is that the reports I've had back from our activists in Hemsworth have been very positive. They've not been terribly scientific because we don't have the base data to be (it's not been a target in living memory and so resources have in the past been pulled into Wakefield, Morley & Outwood and Dewsbury), but if Hemsworth is thought to be in play then Bolsover - which I'd assume is demographically similar - might well be too.
    If Hemsworth is in play then we're not talking swings, we're talking paradigm shifts.
    I've heard an extraordinary London rumour on the other side of this equation.
    Battersea or Putney?
    No. Far more incredible.
    Boris?
    Ian Duncan smith because the vote has collapsed but i didnt believe it.
    I seem to remember on the night of the local elections there was a wild rumour that the Labour vote had "collapsed" in Swansea. When the count was finished, the vote had actually gone up.
  • Options
    TravelJunkieTravelJunkie Posts: 431
    Good news everyone.

    Income tax calculator if Corbyn is prime minister
    http://calculate.forlabour.com/

    Sorry we don't have one if theresa may is prime minister from friday as she won't tell us the policy.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,963
    IanB2 said:

    The previous Opinium was a 10 point lead, so this confirms the slow trend towards Labour.
    No it wasn't. 30th - 31st May was 43/37. Now 43/36 Labour down 1
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Danny565 said:

    Not clear at all that those national figures would result in an increased Tory majority, unless Opinium have done some specific constituency polling which they're not disclosing.
    It definitely would because the two party share rising favours the larger party. UKIP won't hit 5% anyway.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    edited June 2017
    JonathanD said:
    Thanks,

    So basially it's all margin for error stuff.

    Confirms the idea that over the past week things have basically stabilized...

    Now it will just be down to what happens on the day (voter turnout, voters changing their minds in the polling booth, etc...)
  • Options

    Mr. Eagles, they sought the trappings of power and luxury of opposition. Odd for a party so in love with the concept of coalition.

    And a shame. Many Lib Dems (Laws, Webb, Lamb, Alexander) were really rather capable.

    I was on a stand with the Lib Dems in Sutton Coldfield on Saturday, and Andrew Mitchell wandered over for a chat with our candidate. He mentioned how much he enjoyed working with the Lib Dem ministers in the coalition and expressed his admiration for their abilities.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    GIN1138 said:

    JonathanD said:
    Thanks,

    So basially it's all margin for error stuff.

    Confirms the idea that over the past week things have basically stabilized...

    Now it will just be down to what happens on the day (voter turnout, voters changing their minds in the polling booth, etc...)
    And how many of the blue-rinse brigade drop dead before reaching the ballot box...
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JournoStephen: Still a good showing for Yes when you consider the question is: Would you like to plunge your children into poverty…
    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/872113232974163968
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Scott_P said:

    The political segment of the internet is full of excited people tweeting today that you can “watch the Diane Abbott Sky News interview in full here.” No, thank you. I watched it once and I never want to see it again. The clip is hide behind the sofa embarrassing. The Shadow Home Secretary suffers one of the worst meltdowns in current affairs television history. It is much more than just a so-called “brainfade.” She drowns for four minutes.

    Abbott used to be able to do it, just about, by which I mean talk fluent rubbish on telly. Now, days from an election after which she seeks to ascend to running the Home office during a terrorist emergency, she cannot even do that. She looks miserable. Crushed. Defeated.

    Make it stop, please. Retire Diane Abbott now.


    https://reaction.life/retire-diane-abbott-now-compassionate-grounds/

    I have just watched this. It is the first time I have seen Diane Abbott on TV since her TW days and the difference in her ability to respond is obvious - she has become reactive rather than proactive.

    Personally, I think she is unwell

    Is she unwell, or just under huge pressure?

    She's never had to justify herself before, just attack the Tories and blame other people. Now she really has to give serious answers for the first time. And she cannot.

    Corbyn tripped up over this the other day too, when he called for TMay's resignation; he just defaulted to back-bench complainer mode.

  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Scott_P said:

    The political segment of the internet is full of excited people tweeting today that you can “watch the Diane Abbott Sky News interview in full here.” No, thank you. I watched it once and I never want to see it again. The clip is hide behind the sofa embarrassing. The Shadow Home Secretary suffers one of the worst meltdowns in current affairs television history. It is much more than just a so-called “brainfade.” She drowns for four minutes.

    Abbott used to be able to do it, just about, by which I mean talk fluent rubbish on telly. Now, days from an election after which she seeks to ascend to running the Home office during a terrorist emergency, she cannot even do that. She looks miserable. Crushed. Defeated.

    Make it stop, please. Retire Diane Abbott now.


    https://reaction.life/retire-diane-abbott-now-compassionate-grounds/

    I have just watched this. It is the first time I have seen Diane Abbott on TV since her TW days and the difference in her ability to respond is obvious - she has become reactive rather than proactive.

    Personally, I think she is unwell
    I do to something is not correct.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    edited June 2017
    Scott_P said:

    @JournoStephen: Still a good showing for Yes when you consider the question is: Would you like to plunge your children into poverty…
    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/872113232974163968

    Oh you will rue the day you posted that here, Scott_P! :o
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289

    IanB2 said:

    The previous Opinium was a 10 point lead, so this confirms the slow trend towards Labour.
    No it wasn't. 30th - 31st May was 43/37. Now 43/36 Labour down 1
    Ok, the one before was the 10 point lead.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Final Opinium poll of the campaign - Cons 43 Labour 36 Libdem 8 ukip 5

    I will still be surprised if UKIP poll as much as 5%. I haven't seen a single sign for them this time - in the SW!

    Talking of which, I have heard that Tim Farron hasn't been seen further SW than Bristol in four weeks - can anyone confirm this?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Presumably that is fraudulent misrepresentation and something you will, naturally, be reporting to the Electoral Commission given that you are a believer in decency and fair elections.
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    TravelJunkieTravelJunkie Posts: 431
    Wimbeldon 2015 Result:
    Conservative: 25225 (52.1%)
    Labour: 12606 (26%)
    Lib Dem: 6129 (12.7%)
    Green: 1986 (4.1%)
    UKIP: 2476 (5.1%)
    MAJORITY: 12619 (26.1%)

    That would be a massive shock if labour turned this over because it took boundary changes to make it a safe tory seat.
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    JonathanD said:
    Thanks,

    So basially it's all margin for error stuff.

    Confirms the idea that over the past week things have basically stabilized...

    Now it will just be down to what happens on the day (voter turnout, voters changing their minds in the polling booth, etc...)
    , the fear factor, etc.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,632
    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JonathanD said:
    Thanks,

    So basially it's all margin for error stuff.

    Confirms the idea that over the past week things have basically stabilized...

    Now it will just be down to what happens on the day (voter turnout, voters changing their minds in the polling booth, etc...)
    And how many of the blue-rinse brigade drop dead before reaching the ballot box...
    And for every one of them dropping off the register, another Corbynite turns 18...
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JonathanD said:
    Thanks,

    So basially it's all margin for error stuff.

    Confirms the idea that over the past week things have basically stabilized...

    Now it will just be down to what happens on the day (voter turnout, voters changing their minds in the polling booth, etc...)
    And how many of the blue-rinse brigade drop dead before reaching the ballot box...
    They've already sent in their postals....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JonathanD said:
    Thanks,

    So basially it's all margin for error stuff.

    Confirms the idea that over the past week things have basically stabilized...

    Now it will just be down to what happens on the day (voter turnout, voters changing their minds in the polling booth, etc...)
    And how many of the blue-rinse brigade drop dead before reaching the ballot box...
    And for every one of them dropping off the register, another Corbynite turns 18...
    And as those Corbynites turn 18, a few middle age folk wonder what they were doing ever supporting Labour.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Putney, I mentioned it at 5 (for Lab) some weeks ago based on what the Yorkshire Post (or Evening Post, I forget) political editor said on Sky News. He was firmly of the view, and this was backed up by another journalist today on Twitter, that it was a bit of a one-off in that regard and shouldn't be regarded as indicative of any general trend.

    Also, it tends to be bloody slow at declaring, so it'll probably come in when we know who's won overall anyway.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    Danny565 said:

    Not clear at all that those national figures would result in an increased Tory majority, unless Opinium have done some specific constituency polling which they're not disclosing.
    I reckon if that is the result, it lead to the marmalisation of the Lib Dems.
This discussion has been closed.