Can I just post my thoughts on shy Tories. I have always voted Tory but the thing I find really really offensive is the left`s attitude to people like me. An example was in the last thread. I have all my life paid tax, done charity work and when I had a business helped our least wealthy clients. This election feels nasty if you dare to mention you are a Tory or pass an opinion you get shouted down. My Facebook feed is dominated by 2 posters who constantly post things from The Canary, between their 500 friends no one likes, shares or comments on it . The lack of posters; why would you after seeing examples of vandalising . I did notice this morning a Tory Councillor who always has a poster didn`t and I don`t think its because she has turned to the Labour Party. If I was faced on the door step or the phone with a Labour canvasser of course I would say I was Labour I don`t want the hassle.I do wonder how many people like me are out there. suppose we shall see on Thursday.
Absoultely. Systematic defacing of Tory placards etc all around my area including in peoples gardens. Very deliberate and very intimidatory. A kinder gentler politics.
The cause is all. Any means justifies the ends. The classic Trot approach, just a small step to Stalinist.
I feel the step from defacing placards to mass murder of millions is rather large myself.
I would never for may because she was a remainer and her record as home secretary.
Don't assume leave/ukip = tory voter 2017 because I'm not one.
I am the same as you and will not be voting for May. But 100% I could never vote for Corbyn. If in a marginal seat I would be considering voting Tory so as not to waste my leave vote, and I can imagine any Kippers who read the odd headline about Corbyn's poll surge might just hold their nose and vote Tory just this once.
I was also UKIP/Leave. I will vote Tory because I do not trust anyone else to deliver any form of Brexit. If we have either a hung Parliament or a Corbyn victory then they will do their damndest to stop Brexit. They will fail given that both Labour and the Tories promised Brexit but it will be a bloodbath as far as the economy and the country is concerned.
If you voted Leave and still want it then there is absolutely no alternative to May at this election.
I agree but my seat is very safe and I have issues revolving around the Conservative party and their murky past which stops me voting for them. May is someone I have no issue with. It's important that Brexit gets much an airing as possible in the next 24 hours to remind leave voters that their job is only half done.
- His brother is called Piers who was once a test engineer on Concorde. - He has a son called Seb. - And another one called Ben, who looks just like Zac Goldsmith. - He grew up in a seven-bedroom manor house in Shropshire called Yew Tree Manor which was once a hotel, with its own paddock. - On the Duke of Sutherland's estate. - He once built a sundial in one of the outbuildings and erected it in the garden. - He gets married all the time. - To women with names like Jane and Claudia. - Claudia's father was a very important Spanish diplomat. - And his latest wife Laura Alvarez runs a fair-trade coffee empire. - From Islington. Need we say more?
Can I just post my thoughts on shy Tories. I have always voted Tory but the thing I find really really offensive is the left`s attitude to people like me. An example was in the last thread. I have all my life paid tax, done charity work and when I had a business helped our least wealthy clients. This election feels nasty if you dare to mention you are a Tory or pass an opinion you get shouted down. My Facebook feed is dominated by 2 posters who constantly post things from The Canary, between their 500 friends no one likes, shares or comments on it . The lack of posters; why would you after seeing examples of vandalising . I did notice this morning a Tory Councillor who always has a poster didn`t and I don`t think its because she has turned to the Labour Party. If I was faced on the door step or the phone with a Labour canvasser of course I would say I was Labour I don`t want the hassle.I do wonder how many people like me are out there. suppose we shall see on Thursday.
Absoultely. Systematic defacing of Tory placards etc all around my area including in peoples gardens. Very deliberate and very intimidatory. A kinder gentler politics.
The cause is all. Any means justifies the ends. The classic Trot approach, just a small step to Stalinist.
I feel the step from defacing placards to mass murder of millions is rather large myself.
Certainly wouldn't solve shy tory syndrome if there is a link..
I see Sadiq Khan proving what a slippery individual he is. Perhaps he does have designs on the Labour leadership after all.
I see Diane Abbott has been pulled from the Evening Standard hustings tonight. If this was a conservative candidate, it would be the BBC's no 1 headline.
Theresa May's pulled out at least twice: did she make the BBC's number 1 headline? The current BBC lead is the naming of the third London terrorist, which is probably of greater news value. You have to scroll a fair way down to find it on the Standard's page -- and it is their hustings.
I do wonder about the shy Tory vote in this one. Especially amongst WWC former labour and UKIP. My Facebook feed is much more militant this time, from people who have always been just loyal labour but are now insisting no other vote is valid, and a bizarre upgrading of the more strident to hysterical levels
It's people like that who get Tories to the polling stations on election day.
I was looking at IndyRef 2014 - 84.59 % turnout. in total.
Reported turnout from 18-24s? 54 %
So what's that, scaled to the 66 % turnout of a GE? 42 % - which is bang on the mark for estimates of youth turnout in that election.
I wonder if this relationship holds up for other elections?
I would caution caution with that figure. The 18-24 band was very weird in the IndyRef due to the large number of non-Scottish students who would have been eligible to vote.
There is a strict linear trend between age and Yes vote % but the 18-24% has a big blip towards No.
Both this blip and the vastly lower turnout percentage than the surrounding 16-17 band & 25-35 band would be explained by non-Scottish students either choosing not to vote or breaking very heavily towards No.
Can I just post my thoughts on shy Tories. I have always voted Tory but the thing I find really really offensive is the left`s attitude to people like me. An example was in the last thread. I have all my life paid tax, done charity work and when I had a business helped our least wealthy clients. This election feels nasty if you dare to mention you are a Tory or pass an opinion you get shouted down. My Facebook feed is dominated by 2 posters who constantly post things from The Canary, between their 500 friends no one likes, shares or comments on it . The lack of posters; why would you after seeing examples of vandalising . I did notice this morning a Tory Councillor who always has a poster didn`t and I don`t think its because she has turned to the Labour Party. If I was faced on the door step or the phone with a Labour canvasser of course I would say I was Labour I don`t want the hassle.I do wonder how many people like me are out there. suppose we shall see on Thursday.
Absoultely. Systematic defacing of Tory placards etc all around my area including in peoples gardens. Very deliberate and very intimidatory. A kinder gentler politics.
The cause is all. Any means justifies the ends. The classic Trot approach, just a small step to Stalinist.
I feel the step from defacing placards to mass murder of millions is rather large myself.
Not that large when the current shadow CoE wanted to kill Thatcher
If unrepresentative samples was the problem in 2015 as both the inquiry and research since has found then I don't know why it would have been resolved now based on the limited changes to online panels that have occurred.
The problem, presumably, is that if you think for every 10 voters sure to vote there are 5 more less certain to do so, you're screwed if you have 10 people on your panel who all say they're sure to vote. You have no less-certain-to-vote respondents at all whose responses you can upweight, and the 2:1 ratio is anyway a supposition based on nothing you can use your current panel to verify.
Can I just post my thoughts on shy Tories. I have always voted Tory but the thing I find really really offensive is the left`s attitude to people like me. An example was in the last thread. I have all my life paid tax, done charity work and when I had a business helped our least wealthy clients. This election feels nasty if you dare to mention you are a Tory or pass an opinion you get shouted down. My Facebook feed is dominated by 2 posters who constantly post things from The Canary, between their 500 friends no one likes, shares or comments on it . The lack of posters; why would you after seeing examples of vandalising . I did notice this morning a Tory Councillor who always has a poster didn`t and I don`t think its because she has turned to the Labour Party. If I was faced on the door step or the phone with a Labour canvasser of course I would say I was Labour I don`t want the hassle.I do wonder how many people like me are out there. suppose we shall see on Thursday.
Absoultely. Systematic defacing of Tory placards etc all around my area including in peoples gardens. Very deliberate and very intimidatory. A kinder gentler politics.
The cause is all. Any means justifies the ends. The classic Trot approach, just a small step to Stalinist.
I feel the step from defacing placards to mass murder of millions is rather large myself.
Oh. Thats all right then. Nothing to be concerned about.
Both involve scaring and intimidating political opponents into quiessence. Nobody is going to be converted by vandalism. It is just bullying people who display opposing views. Contemptible. As is your dismissal of it
***** BETTING POST ***** I suspect there's some value to be had in that range of say 20th - 60th target seats which just 4 short weeks the Tories appeared likely to capture, bur a number of which now look destined to remain in Labour's hands ..... in some cases the bookies appear to have been somewhat slow in adjusting their odds. A case in point is Dewsbury in West Yorkshire, where Labour secured a majority of just 1,451 at the 2015 GE when UKIP who aren't standing this time received 6649 votes. There's a huge divergence in the betting odds where Bet365 offers 3/1 against Labour holding the seat compared with Betfair Sportsbook whose 13/8 therefore represents less than half the profit return. Interestingly Baxter rates this as a genuine toss-up seat with the Tories forecast to win 46.7% of the vote, compared with Labour's 46.6%. In other words an evens money chance either way, against which odds of 3/1 against Labour looks distinctly appealing, but as ever DYOR.
'Brave', personally I think Workington for the Tories is decent at 5-4. It follows on from @notme Cumbria reports.
Thanks for the Workington heads-up where I'll take a look see. I don't see my suggestion as being that "brave". I could have added that the Tory candidate is a 24 year old, former supermarket worker, so hardly an experienced political heavyweight. In such a marginal constituency, one might have expected the Blue Team to have fielded someone with rather more more oomph, not that I've met lady in question I should add.
I have a huge amount of time for Tatchell. He is hugely brave and willing to face down bigotry wherever he finds it not just on the opposite side politically from him. As someone mentioned he and Trevor Phillips have gone along way to try and address the real causes of bigotry not just the politically expedient ones.
I do wonder about the shy Tory vote in this one. Especially amongst WWC former labour and UKIP. My Facebook feed is much more militant this time, from people who have always been just loyal labour but are now insisting no other vote is valid, and a bizarre upgrading of the more strident to hysterical levels
It's people like that who get Tories to the polling stations on election day.
Win or lose, tories have nothing to vote for or believe in. Five years of nothing to look forward to on the ballot paper.
2022 will see a labour landslide. People will be sick and tired of the tories and project fear wont work.
Ceredigion looks like it is on a knife edge.....the anti-Plaid coalition which has previously voted LD is bleeding votes left and right to Labour and Conservative....which could gift the seat to Plaid.
Can I just post my thoughts on shy Tories. I have always voted Tory but the thing I find really really offensive is the left`s attitude to people like me. An example was in the last thread. I have all my life paid tax, done charity work and when I had a business helped our least wealthy clients. This election feels nasty if you dare to mention you are a Tory or pass an opinion you get shouted down. My Facebook feed is dominated by 2 posters who constantly post things from The Canary, between their 500 friends no one likes, shares or comments on it . The lack of posters; why would you after seeing examples of vandalising . I did notice this morning a Tory Councillor who always has a poster didn`t and I don`t think its because she has turned to the Labour Party. If I was faced on the door step or the phone with a Labour canvasser of course I would say I was Labour I don`t want the hassle.I do wonder how many people like me are out there. suppose we shall see on Thursday.
Absoultely. Systematic defacing of Tory placards etc all around my area including in peoples gardens. Very deliberate and very intimidatory. A kinder gentler politics.
The cause is all. Any means justifies the ends. The classic Trot approach, just a small step to Stalinist.
I feel the step from defacing placards to mass murder of millions is rather large myself.
Oh. Thats all right then. Nothing to be concerned about.
Both involve scaring and intimidating political opponents into quiessence. Nobody is going to be converted by vandalism. It is just bullying people who display opposing views. Contemptible. As is your dismissal of it
I'm not saying it's right.
I'm pointing out that in the spectrum of wrong there is quite a wide gap between defacing some posters and the mass murder of millions of people.
I have a huge amount of time for Tatchell. He is hugely brave and willing to face down bigotry wherever he finds it not just on the opposite side politically from him. As someone mentioned he and Trevor Phillips have gone along way to try and address the real causes of bigotry not just the politically expedient ones.
I agree (and agree with your reasons for voting Conservative).
The Tories always assumed that Corbyn himself would be the electoral poison. This may or may not be true, but it seems he is reinventing himself as a cuddly grandpa with a jam hose. But I think Diane Abbot is indeed emerging as a truly toxic individual. The Tories should make more of it.
If unrepresentative samples was the problem in 2015 as both the inquiry and research since has found then I don't know why it would have been resolved now based on the limited changes to online panels that have occurred.
The problem, presumably, is that if you think for every 10 voters sure to vote there are 5 more less certain to do so, you're screwed if you have 10 people on your panel who all say they're sure to vote. You have no less-certain-to-vote respondents at all whose responses you can upweight, and the 2:1 ratio is anyway a supposition based on nothing you can use your current panel to verify.
Yes that's exactly the problem the BES identified. Because you have to weight to the population even groups who hardly ever vote appear like they will.
That's a very non-crunchy analysis by Silver there:
- He hasn't identified any specific areas where polling could be questionable (which serious analysts of the UK polls have done). If he had done so, he could have asked serious questions on what the actual youth turnout could be in comparison to the self-reported likelihood of turnout. Or about the questions on sampling, weighting, and huge swings of opinion throughout the campaign.
- He hasn't looked at other analysts records (for example, Number Crunching Politics (run by Matt Singh) not only got the last election spot on when the polls were well off, he did so in advance and with huge amounts of evidence showing that no fewer than three reliable ways of modelling the result other than the headline polls all pointed to a massive polling error in the conservatives favour: he not only identified that there was going to be an error, he identified the direction and the magnitude. Why hasn't Silver noted that and looked into that?
- He has come up with a "rule" out of nowhere (that polling error is always in the opposite direction of conventional wisdom), ignored the fact that said "rule", when applied to UK elections, has overwhelmingly been far more wrong than right, and assumed that his new rule will apply this time because - well, no "because" is given.
- The variant rule of "Tories are overstated when they're well in the lead" relies on data from events far in the past under different polling systems and, without any serious attempt to explain the mechanism by which this should be true, is more astrology than science. It's the sort of thing Silver has (rightly) condemned pundits for in the past.
Meanwhile, Matt Singh of Number Cruncher Politics pulled off the electoral analysis of the century to date last time around by successfully predicting the polling disaster in 2015. Not by luck or by gut feel, but by ten pages of researched and comprehensive analysis showing that the polls were totally divorced from the fundamentals at the time (based on leadership ratings PLUS local election results PLUS historic sources of polling error).
As at two weeks ago, his analysis (which pointed to a 7-10 point Tory lead in 2015 in defiance of the dead-level polling score) was pointing to a "mid-teens" Conservative lead. Looking at the basis of the model, May's falling leadership ratings will detract from that and cause more fuzziness - I'd guess his model would now be pointing to a Conservative win of 9-14 points, which is quite coherent with the ICM/ComRes/TNS cluster and greater than the average of the polls.
I agree - his golden rule (recently invented, soon to be ditched) was unconvincing. I will check out Matt Singh - thanks for the recommendation.
I have a huge amount of time for Tatchell. He is hugely brave and willing to face down bigotry wherever he finds it not just on the opposite side politically from him. As someone mentioned he and Trevor Phillips have gone along way to try and address the real causes of bigotry not just the politically expedient ones.
@JoeWatts_: Everyone appears to think Diane Abbott's killing Labour. She's pulled out of 2 events, while Tories now mention her at every turn.
Yes, I first noticed it in May's speech at the weekend. I feel that people have made up their minds about Corbyn and there is nothing left to stick, but alluding to Abbott as a major player and her prominence over the past few days just gives Labour voters another reason to stay at home and Tories to come out and vote. Her most recent gaffe has probably been watched or read about in every workplace up and down the land, it's been the lead story on the Mail Online for about 16 hours now, thanks Mr Dacre!
The Tories always assumed that Corbyn himself would be the electoral poison. This may or may not be true, but it seems he is reinventing himself as a cuddly grandpa with a jam hose. But I think Diane Abbot is indeed emerging as a truly toxic individual. The Tories should make more of it.
Tory attacks on Corbyn have been over the top and I think have been preaching to the faithful. Abbott on the other hand doesn't need to be attacked - she is destroying her credibility fine on her own.
Plus now journalists see it as an easy win to ask her moderately difficult questions she will crash and burn on. They don't even need to be tough questions - just ones that are specific enough.
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
your one of the school yard bullies that take the piss out of people with your school yard friends, but when you get a smack in the mouth, you've got nothing more to say.
The Tories always assumed that Corbyn himself would be the electoral poison. This may or may not be true, but it seems he is reinventing himself as a cuddly grandpa with a jam hose. But I think Diane Abbot is indeed emerging as a truly toxic individual. The Tories should make more of it.
Don’t think Abbott is seen as dangerous, just utterly inept, which is not not a good look for a possible future Labour cabinet. How loyal will Jeremy be to her after the election?
@JoeWatts_: Everyone appears to think Diane Abbott's killing Labour. She's pulled out of 2 events, while Tories now mention her at every turn.
it sums up the tory campaign
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's so unfair. She doesn't deserve it - as she has pointed out, black mothers are there for their children and a black nurse could do a better job of taking a black patient's temperature than could a white Finnish nurse. We further owe to Diane the insight that white people like to divide and rule.
@JoeWatts_: Everyone appears to think Diane Abbott's killing Labour. She's pulled out of 2 events, while Tories now mention her at every turn.
it sums up the tory campaign
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
Erm... you overlook - probably deliberately - that about 70% of the country now just want to get on and get the fuck out of the EU. Only the Tories are promising a clean Brexit. That is a huge positive. I'm not a big May fan but her determination to do the right thing on Brexit wins my vote.
@JoeWatts_: Everyone appears to think Diane Abbott's killing Labour. She's pulled out of 2 events, while Tories now mention her at every turn.
it sums up the tory campaign
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
Will you be departing at 22:01 on Thursday?
will you ever in your lifetime put your country first and not your party.
i cant wait till june 9th because for the next 5 years your defending a party with no policies, nothing positive to say and all your going to have left to do is throw shit at the otherside because you cant defend your own.
at least i care about my country. shame half the people put party before country.
your one of the school yard bullies that take the piss out of people with your school yard friends, but when you get a smack in the mouth, you've got nothing more to say.
Yep, definitely a Corbynite. Point out Abbott being an apologist for genocide, and more violence is threatened.
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
just throw shit at diane abbott.
I think you need to work on your finesse. Nothing wrong with someone pushing a singular point of view but you should be reassured that we don't need things spelling out for us so bluntly all the time. It dulls the message.
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
your one of the school yard bullies that take the piss out of people with your school yard friends, but when you get a smack in the mouth, you've got nothing more to say.
I think it quite right and proper a potential future Home Sec gets thoroughly grilled by the media. Yvette Cooper in this role, and none of this would have happened.
The Tories always assumed that Corbyn himself would be the electoral poison. This may or may not be true, but it seems he is reinventing himself as a cuddly grandpa with a jam hose. But I think Diane Abbot is indeed emerging as a truly toxic individual. The Tories should make more of it.
Don’t think Abbott is seen as dangerous, just utterly inept, which is not not a good look for a possible future Labour cabinet. How loyal will Jeremy be to her after the election?
If they're pulling her off the air I suspect not a good sign. Presumably Corbyn will be asked if he has confidence in DA to be home secretary...
your one of the school yard bullies that take the piss out of people with your school yard friends, but when you get a smack in the mouth, you've got nothing more to say.
Yep, definitely a Corbynite. Point out Abbott being an apologist for genocide, and more violence is threatened.
say something positive about your party and your leader. please
5 years till the next election.. and 2 days time you have nothing to positive to say about your party or leader. just throw shit at people.
The religious make up of Dewsbury West is 46.7% Muslim, 33.5% Christian, 13.0% No religion, 0.3% Sikh, 0.2% Hindu, 0.1% Buddhist.
Workington
This will help the Tories there
White 21,882 Asian 99 Black 16 Mixed/multiple 83 Other ethnic group 18
I expect both will probably end up the same colour with the greater hurdle to cross for the blues in Workington though.
How sad that these differing ethnic and religious make ups are a go to guide of how a constituency will vote
I feel Workington, like Dewsbury will also remain Labour and therefore the 5/4 price available for backing the Tories is definitely not for me. Baxter currently has Labour 7% ahead in a seat where UKIP are fielding a candidate and the Greens are not, meaning that their 3% support in 2015 will switch wholesale to Labour.
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
just throw shit at diane abbott.
I think you need to work on your finesse. Nothing wrong with someone pushing a singular point of view but you should be reassured that we don't need things spelling out for us so bluntly all the time. It dulls the message.
Throw some nuance in there from time to time.
Mr Topping, why are you arguing with a robot?
Especially one set to self destruct at 10.01 pm on Thursday?
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
just throw shit at diane abbott.
You are very close to making me vote Conservative. I'm not sure why you think stomping your feet and making wild generalisations will add anything to the discussion or make anyone vote Labour?
The Tories always assumed that Corbyn himself would be the electoral poison. This may or may not be true, but it seems he is reinventing himself as a cuddly grandpa with a jam hose. But I think Diane Abbot is indeed emerging as a truly toxic individual. The Tories should make more of it.
Don’t think Abbott is seen as dangerous, just utterly inept, which is not not a good look for a possible future Labour cabinet. How loyal will Jeremy be to her after the election?
If they're pulling her off the air I suspect not a good sign. Presumably Corbyn will be asked if he has confidence in DA to be home secretary...
What does it say for Corbyn's judgement that the person he chose to be his Shadow Home Sec is not only incompetent beyond all measure, he also happened to have a relationship with her? This is just a socialist, crappy version of Fat Cat "jobs for the boys"
@JoeWatts_: Everyone appears to think Diane Abbott's killing Labour. She's pulled out of 2 events, while Tories now mention her at every turn.
it sums up the tory campaign
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
Will you be departing at 22:01 on Thursday?
will you ever in your lifetime put your country first and not your party.
i cant wait till june 9th because for the next 5 years your defending a party with no policies, nothing positive to say and all your going to have left to do is throw shit at the otherside because you cant defend your own.
at least i care about my country. shame half the people put party before country.
BORING repeating the same drab crap post after post, no one is listening .. Time for your afternoon lessons...
your one of the school yard bullies that take the piss out of people with your school yard friends, but when you get a smack in the mouth, you've got nothing more to say.
Yep, definitely a Corbynite. Point out Abbott being an apologist for genocide, and more violence is threatened.
say something positive about your party and your leader. please
5 years till the next election.. and 2 days time you have nothing to positive to say about your party or leader. just throw shit at people.
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
just throw shit at diane abbott.
I think you need to work on your finesse. Nothing wrong with someone pushing a singular point of view but you should be reassured that we don't need things spelling out for us so bluntly all the time. It dulls the message.
Throw some nuance in there from time to time.
Everyday this site has school yard bullies that have nothing to contribute to policy debate, betting or their own party.
Instead they come on and just throw shit on one side like a school yard bully.
If you have nothing to say about public policy, debate politics, discuss betting but only want to come on here to bully individuals like a school yard why are they here?
The Tories always assumed that Corbyn himself would be the electoral poison. This may or may not be true, but it seems he is reinventing himself as a cuddly grandpa with a jam hose. But I think Diane Abbot is indeed emerging as a truly toxic individual. The Tories should make more of it.
Tory attacks on Corbyn have been over the top and I think have been preaching to the faithful. Abbott on the other hand doesn't need to be attacked - she is destroying her credibility fine on her own.
Plus now journalists see it as an easy win to ask her moderately difficult questions she will crash and burn on. They don't even need to be tough questions - just ones that are specific enough.
I think she is ill or something more serious with her memory.
Can I just post my thoughts on shy Tories. I have always voted Tory but the thing I find really really offensive is the left`s attitude to people like me. An example was in the last thread. I have all my life paid tax, done charity work and when I had a business helped our least wealthy clients. This election feels nasty if you dare to mention you are a Tory or pass an opinion you get shouted down. My Facebook feed is dominated by 2 posters who constantly post things from The Canary, between their 500 friends no one likes, shares or comments on it . The lack of posters; why would you after seeing examples of vandalising . I did notice this morning a Tory Councillor who always has a poster didn`t and I don`t think its because she has turned to the Labour Party. If I was faced on the door step or the phone with a Labour canvasser of course I would say I was Labour I don`t want the hassle.I do wonder how many people like me are out there. suppose we shall see on Thursday.
Absoultely. Systematic defacing of Tory placards etc all around my area including in peoples gardens. Very deliberate and very intimidatory. A kinder gentler politics.
The cause is all. Any means justifies the ends. The classic Trot approach, just a small step to Stalinist.
I feel the step from defacing placards to mass murder of millions is rather large myself.
Not that large when the current shadow CoE wanted to kill Thatcher
A lot of people felt desperate after 1987 when the Thatcher One Party State continued its move forward. I heard quite a few otherwise sane people talking politics at parties and saying that they'd welcome an assassin's bullet.
Never run a campaign, don't know much about the various political machinations, they are very intelligent people who are far brighter than me who know their stuff.
It makes sense to me that in the closing stages of the campaign you look to go to places where you think with one final push, one final visit to get the ground troops/activists fired up you might have a realistic chance of getting that seat.
If that's true, then why does it appear the Conservative seem to be doing a lot more of that and Labour seem to be visiting areas that are some of their heartlands?
The polls are saying one thing (not all but most) and the reports from the ground are saying something different.
The Tories always assumed that Corbyn himself would be the electoral poison. This may or may not be true, but it seems he is reinventing himself as a cuddly grandpa with a jam hose. But I think Diane Abbot is indeed emerging as a truly toxic individual. The Tories should make more of it.
Don’t think Abbott is seen as dangerous, just utterly inept, which is not not a good look for a possible future Labour cabinet. How loyal will Jeremy be to her after the election?
If they're pulling her off the air I suspect not a good sign. Presumably Corbyn will be asked if he has confidence in DA to be home secretary...
What does it say for Corbyn's judgement that the person he chose to be his Shadow Home Sec is not only incompetent beyond all measure, he also happened to have a relationship with her? This is just a socialist, crappy version of Fat Cat "jobs for the boys"
Before the election I assumed that Corbyn would be a huge drag on the Labour ticket,and didn't think that the likes of Abbott, McDonnell and Thornberry would be a big deal, unimpressive as they can be. But he has had a strong campaign (and shown real steel given everything thrown at him) but his lieutenants have been badly exposed in a way he couldn't have expected. I just wonder whether he'd rather have had a Hilary Benn or Keir Starmer in one of those roles right now.
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
say something positive about your party and your leader. please
Rather hard to do, since I've never been a member of a political party, and don't identify with any of them.
Imagine someone had said: "Hitler killed a lot, but was a decent bloke overall." That's basically what Abbott is doing. McDonnell has also quoted approvingly of Mao.
These people are not normal, they are extremists, utter poison. That's my motivation.
The word I would use for Diane Abbot is not 'inept' so much as 'repellant'. Everything about her. Everything. The Tories will be praying for her as Labour leader if Jezza gets defenestrated.
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
just throw shit at diane abbott.
I think you need to work on your finesse. Nothing wrong with someone pushing a singular point of view but you should be reassured that we don't need things spelling out for us so bluntly all the time. It dulls the message.
Throw some nuance in there from time to time.
Mr Topping, why are you arguing with a robot?
Especially one set to self destruct at 10.01 pm on Thursday?
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
just throw shit at diane abbott.
I think you need to work on your finesse. Nothing wrong with someone pushing a singular point of view but you should be reassured that we don't need things spelling out for us so bluntly all the time. It dulls the message.
Throw some nuance in there from time to time.
Everyday this site has school yard bullies that have nothing to contribute to policy debate, betting or their own party.
Instead they come on and just throw shit on one side like a school yard bully.
If you have nothing to say about public policy, debate politics, discuss betting but only want to come on here to bully individuals like a school yard why are they here?
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
The Tories always assumed that Corbyn himself would be the electoral poison. This may or may not be true, but it seems he is reinventing himself as a cuddly grandpa with a jam hose. But I think Diane Abbot is indeed emerging as a truly toxic individual. The Tories should make more of it.
Tory attacks on Corbyn have been over the top and I think have been preaching to the faithful. Abbott on the other hand doesn't need to be attacked - she is destroying her credibility fine on her own.
Plus now journalists see it as an easy win to ask her moderately difficult questions she will crash and burn on. They don't even need to be tough questions - just ones that are specific enough.
I think she is ill or something more serious with her memory.
I think she's fine.
It was just a case that she hadn't read the report and tried to blag her way through the interview (as as with the LB one where she hadn't thought to find out how much her police policy would cost)
Basically she's just a waste of space... But then most MP's (of all parties) are to be fair...
@JoeWatts_: Everyone appears to think Diane Abbott's killing Labour. She's pulled out of 2 events, while Tories now mention her at every turn.
it sums up the tory campaign
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
Will you be departing at 22:01 on Thursday?
will you ever in your lifetime put your country first and not your party.
i cant wait till june 9th because for the next 5 years your defending a party with no policies, nothing positive to say and all your going to have left to do is throw shit at the otherside because you cant defend your own.
at least i care about my country. shame half the people put party before country.
BORING repeating the same drab crap post after post, no one is listening .. Time for your afternoon lessons...
Actually it's fascinating.
Having read his first post a week or so ago (rather bizarre request for betting tips) and with the election so close we are getting to watch the entire life cycle of an astroturfer. It's a bit like watching a timelapse movie of some revolting insect undergoing metamorphosis. Thrilling stuff.
The Tories always assumed that Corbyn himself would be the electoral poison. This may or may not be true, but it seems he is reinventing himself as a cuddly grandpa with a jam hose. But I think Diane Abbot is indeed emerging as a truly toxic individual. The Tories should make more of it.
Don’t think Abbott is seen as dangerous, just utterly inept, which is not not a good look for a possible future Labour cabinet. How loyal will Jeremy be to her after the election?
If they're pulling her off the air I suspect not a good sign. Presumably Corbyn will be asked if he has confidence in DA to be home secretary...
What does it say for Corbyn's judgement that the person he chose to be his Shadow Home Sec is not only incompetent beyond all measure, he also happened to have a relationship with her? This is just a socialist, crappy version of Fat Cat "jobs for the boys"
Before the election I assumed that Corbyn would be a huge drag on the Labour ticket,and didn't think that the likes of Abbott, McDonnell and Thornberry would be a big deal, unimpressive as they can be. But he has had a strong campaign (and shown real steel given everything thrown at him) but his lieutenants have been badly exposed in a way he couldn't have expected. I just wonder whether he'd rather have had a Hilary Benn or Keir Starmer in one of those roles right now.
Right now We have a leader who cannot stop terrorism. We have a leader who will not put police officers on the streets. We don't have enough eyes and ears on the ground to stop terrorism We have no laws and regulations stopping people from visiting
Our NHS is on the verge of collapse Staff in the NHS cannot continue to be given a 1% pay rise. AEs are going to be closed so on average if you have a heart attack you will be 45mins from your nearest AE. People will die under this tory policy.
Tory policies Housing (consultation) Social Care (consultation) Brexit (consultation)
We have millions of people that are voting for a party with no clear policies and have a track record of making us unsafe. We have selfish people who are putting their party interests and loyalties ahead of their countries.
Theresa May has overseen 3 terrorist attacks and cut police funding and she is responsible for making our country unsafe.
And you want to talk about diane abbott. Shame on you
The Tories always assumed that Corbyn himself would be the electoral poison. This may or may not be true, but it seems he is reinventing himself as a cuddly grandpa with a jam hose. But I think Diane Abbot is indeed emerging as a truly toxic individual. The Tories should make more of it.
Don’t think Abbott is seen as dangerous, just utterly inept, which is not not a good look for a possible future Labour cabinet. How loyal will Jeremy be to her after the election?
To be fair to Corbyn - and I am always am, of course - I don't think Abbott got much of a look-in when he had not alienated most of the Labour party and had a far wider selection of MPs to choose from. She was shadowing international development, from memory. It was only when the pool to choose from narrowed significantly that she got more senior.
I have a huge amount of time for Tatchell. He is hugely brave and willing to face down bigotry wherever he finds it not just on the opposite side politically from him. As someone mentioned he and Trevor Phillips have gone along way to try and address the real causes of bigotry not just the politically expedient ones.
The Tories always assumed that Corbyn himself would be the electoral poison. This may or may not be true, but it seems he is reinventing himself as a cuddly grandpa with a jam hose. But I think Diane Abbot is indeed emerging as a truly toxic individual. The Tories should make more of it.
Don’t think Abbott is seen as dangerous, just utterly inept, which is not not a good look for a possible future Labour cabinet. How loyal will Jeremy be to her after the election?
If they're pulling her off the air I suspect not a good sign. Presumably Corbyn will be asked if he has confidence in DA to be home secretary...
What does it say for Corbyn's judgement that the person he chose to be his Shadow Home Sec is not only incompetent beyond all measure, he also happened to have a relationship with her? This is just a socialist, crappy version of Fat Cat "jobs for the boys"
Before the election I assumed that Corbyn would be a huge drag on the Labour ticket,and didn't think that the likes of Abbott, McDonnell and Thornberry would be a big deal, unimpressive as they can be. But he has had a strong campaign (and shown real steel given everything thrown at him) but his lieutenants have been badly exposed in a way he couldn't have expected. I just wonder whether he'd rather have had a Hilary Benn or Keir Starmer in one of those roles right now.
I think McDonnell and Thornberry have done surprisingly well this campaign, personally. (Though I wouldn't want either of them to be a future party leader)
It's Diane Abbott that's massively let the side down. Forget her political views or her supposed "baggage", it's the sheer laziness that's the problem. Unforgiveable to be putting yourself forward for one of the top jobs in the land, and to not do your basic homework.
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
just throw shit at diane abbott.
Calm down.
He is right though.
WHAT IS THE POSITVE TORY MESSAGE?????
"Vote for us because we're not quite a sh*t as the other lot" has been winning elections for centuries...
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
just throw shit at diane abbott.
I think you need to work on your finesse. Nothing wrong with someone pushing a singular point of view but you should be reassured that we don't need things spelling out for us so bluntly all the time. It dulls the message.
Throw some nuance in there from time to time.
Mr Topping, why are you arguing with a robot?
Especially one set to self destruct at 10.01 pm on Thursday?
'Fraid not - I'm in Wantage rather than OxWAb, and I don't have a LD diamond up. Unless the missus has put one up today without telling me...
Heh, ok. There's a LD diamond on the edge of Chipping Norton which says "It's got to be... Andy" (referring to their county council candidate), and "Cooke" has been added underneath it...
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
just throw shit at diane abbott.
Calm down.
He is right though.
WHAT IS THE POSITVE TORY MESSAGE?????
Positive messages are for the birds. Stopping Corbyn & co from destroying the economy and our credibility all around the world is a strong enough message.
I don't want a cabal of terrorist sympathisers and far left crackpots running the country. To hell with 'positive messaging'.
I think it quite right and proper a potential future Home Sec gets thoroughly grilled by the media. Yvette Cooper in this role, and none of this would have happened.
In the hypothetical case of Labour forming a government, Cooper would be Home Sec. Corbyn would need a unity cabinet, which would mean the likes of Cooper and Benn being back inside the tent.
Right now We have a leader who cannot stop terrorism. We have a leader who will not put police officers on the streets. We don't have enough eyes and ears on the ground to stop terrorism We have no laws and regulations stopping people from visiting
Our NHS is on the verge of collapse Staff in the NHS cannot continue to be given a 1% pay rise. AEs are going to be closed so on average if you have a heart attack you will be 45mins from your nearest AE. People will die under this tory policy.
Tory policies Housing (consultation) Social Care (consultation) Brexit (consultation)
We have millions of people that are voting for a party with no clear policies and have a track record of making us unsafe. We have selfish people who are putting their party interests and loyalties ahead of their countries.
Theresa May has overseen 3 terrorist attacks and cut police funding and she is responsible for making our country unsafe.
And you want to talk about diane abbott. Shame on you
I think it quite right and proper a potential future Home Sec gets thoroughly grilled by the media. Yvette Cooper in this role, and none of this would have happened.
In the hypothetical case of Labour forming a government, Cooper would be Home Sec. Corbyn would need a unity cabinet, which would mean the likes of Cooper and Benn being back inside the tent.
Assuming it was a coalition with the SNP, perhaps one their lot would get Home Sec?
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
It's not "throwing shit" when it's true. By her own words, she doesn't feel British, a defeat for the British state is a victory for us all, and Mao (who killed 50 million) did more good than harm.
YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
just throw shit at diane abbott.
Calm down.
He is right though.
WHAT IS THE POSITVE TORY MESSAGE?????
A growing economy.
A party that takes Brexit seriously and listens to the people.
The fact that the Tories are not batshit insane like Corbyn and his mates is a bonus.
Comments
It's Gateway to the Gulags in PB Toryland.
http://www.tatler.com/news/articles/october-2015/how-posh-is-jeremy-corbyn
- His brother is called Piers who was once a test engineer on Concorde.
- He has a son called Seb.
- And another one called Ben, who looks just like Zac Goldsmith.
- He grew up in a seven-bedroom manor house in Shropshire called Yew Tree Manor which was once a hotel, with its own paddock.
- On the Duke of Sutherland's estate.
- He once built a sundial in one of the outbuildings and erected it in the garden.
- He gets married all the time.
- To women with names like Jane and Claudia.
- Claudia's father was a very important Spanish diplomat.
- And his latest wife Laura Alvarez runs a fair-trade coffee empire.
- From Islington. Need we say more?
This will help Labour there
The religious make up of Dewsbury West is 46.7% Muslim, 33.5% Christian, 13.0% No religion, 0.3% Sikh, 0.2% Hindu, 0.1% Buddhist.
Workington
This will help the Tories there
White 21,882
Asian 99
Black 16
Mixed/multiple 83
Other ethnic group 18
I expect both will probably end up the same colour with the greater hurdle to cross for the blues in Workington though.
Both involve scaring and intimidating political opponents into quiessence. Nobody is going to be converted by vandalism. It is just bullying people who display opposing views. Contemptible. As is your dismissal of it
Final MORI is Thursday.
2022 will see a labour landslide. People will be sick and tired of the tories and project fear wont work.
https://twitter.com/chrishanretty/status/872082273109258240
Had seen Silver's piece taken apart yesterday.
Welcome to cuts and more cuts and more cuts.
Tax cuts for the rich and the tories will spend 5 more years throwing shit at everything that isnt a tory.
I'm pointing out that in the spectrum of wrong there is quite a wide gap between defacing some posters and the mass murder of millions of people.
Mention of "Shadow Home Secretary" was there none.
nothing positive to say just throw shit at diane abbott.
I will check out Matt Singh - thanks for the recommendation.
Abbott on the other hand doesn't need to be attacked - she is destroying her credibility fine on her own.
Plus now journalists see it as an easy win to ask her moderately difficult questions she will crash and burn on. They don't even need to be tough questions - just ones that are specific enough.
just throw shit at diane abbott.
"With the polls tightening and with just two days until polling day, we need to go all out with one final push."
Tightening polls could help ensure there isn't a lazy Tory vote.
I blame racism.
Historically a great model.
https://twitter.com/tkhartman/status/854606927384522752
i cant wait till june 9th because for the next 5 years your defending a party with no policies, nothing positive to say and all your going to have left to do is throw shit at the otherside because you cant defend your own.
at least i care about my country. shame half the people put party before country.
Throw some nuance in there from time to time.
Yvette Cooper in this role, and none of this would have happened.
Presumably Corbyn will be asked if he has confidence in DA to be home secretary...
5 years till the next election.. and 2 days time you have nothing to positive to say about your party or leader. just throw shit at people.
Baxter currently has Labour 7% ahead in a seat where UKIP are fielding a candidate and the Greens are not, meaning that their 3% support in 2015 will switch wholesale to Labour.
Especially one set to self destruct at 10.01 pm on Thursday?
Lol. How much do they pay you for this crap?
Instead they come on and just throw shit on one side like a school yard bully.
If you have nothing to say about public policy, debate politics, discuss betting but only want to come on here to bully individuals like a school yard why are they here?
It makes sense to me that in the closing stages of the campaign you look to go to places where you think with one final push, one final visit to get the ground troops/activists fired up you might have a realistic chance of getting that seat.
If that's true, then why does it appear the Conservative seem to be doing a lot more of that and Labour seem to be visiting areas that are some of their heartlands?
The polls are saying one thing (not all but most) and the reports from the ground are saying something different.
Imagine someone had said: "Hitler killed a lot, but was a decent bloke overall." That's basically what Abbott is doing. McDonnell has also quoted approvingly of Mao.
These people are not normal, they are extremists, utter poison. That's my motivation.
Go for the middle: 372 seats. A 90-odd seat majority.
WHAT IS THE POSITVE TORY MESSAGE?????
It was just a case that she hadn't read the report and tried to blag her way through the interview (as as with the LB one where she hadn't thought to find out how much her police policy would cost)
Basically she's just a waste of space... But then most MP's (of all parties) are to be fair...
Having read his first post a week or so ago (rather bizarre request for betting tips) and with the election so close we are getting to watch the entire life cycle of an astroturfer. It's a bit like watching a timelapse movie of some revolting insect undergoing metamorphosis. Thrilling stuff.
We have a leader who cannot stop terrorism.
We have a leader who will not put police officers on the streets.
We don't have enough eyes and ears on the ground to stop terrorism
We have no laws and regulations stopping people from visiting
Our NHS is on the verge of collapse
Staff in the NHS cannot continue to be given a 1% pay rise.
AEs are going to be closed so on average if you have a heart attack you will be 45mins from your nearest AE. People will die under this tory policy.
Tory policies
Housing (consultation)
Social Care (consultation)
Brexit (consultation)
We have millions of people that are voting for a party with no clear policies and have a track record of making us unsafe. We have selfish people who are putting their party interests and loyalties ahead of their countries.
Theresa May has overseen 3 terrorist attacks and cut police funding and she is responsible for making our country unsafe.
And you want to talk about diane abbott. Shame on you
It's Diane Abbott that's massively let the side down. Forget her political views or her supposed "baggage", it's the sheer laziness that's the problem. Unforgiveable to be putting yourself forward for one of the top jobs in the land, and to not do your basic homework.
I don't want a cabal of terrorist sympathisers and far left crackpots running the country. To hell with 'positive messaging'.
Tories confident they can win in Bolsover - doubt YouGov will show that
Oh Boy...if Skinner loses......
A growing economy.
A party that takes Brexit seriously and listens to the people.
The fact that the Tories are not batshit insane like Corbyn and his mates is a bonus.