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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ipsos MORI ends a morning of bad news for the Tories with the

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  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    JackW said:

    What's the running (down the leg) total for the Conservative Bedwetters this afternoon ?

    I do not know, but I have tears of laughter running down my cheeks. Reading some of this lot has been a hoot.

    I wonder what will ACTUALLY happen? Roll on Thursday...

    (BTW, I am expecting a Tory win, less than 50 seats)
    I'm glad you're enjoying yourself :)

    At least this GE hasn't been boring, I guess.
    If 'landslide' is defined as >100, what's the word for 50-100 - a semi-landslide? I think that's the most likely. Not sure if the odds on it will offer any value, though.
    "comfortable" majority
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,988
    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    Andrew said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Seems unlikely at the moment ........ but say the polls are wrong by the same degree as they were last time, she'll have a majority around 90. The spreads suggest 70ish, Baxter predicts 74. Is that really such a disaster?
    That could be the answer! Look at the polls and factor in how wrong they usually are

    Which just takes you back to the old wisdom of they under estimate the right and over estimate the left
    Except the pollsters are almost all furiously making significant adjustments to their raw results to compensate for precisely that?
    Did you write that in an Aussie accent?!

    They should just give up

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Andrew said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Seems unlikely at the moment ........ but say the polls are wrong by the same degree as they were last time, she'll have a majority around 90. The spreads suggest 70ish, Baxter predicts 74. Is that really such a disaster?
    As the pollsters have made methodological changes because of the errors last time , it is most unlikely they will be wrong in the same direction as last time by the same amount . More likely that the they have over corrected and the error is the other way .
    Much as I hate to admit this Labour probably ahead in a fair few "raws".
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,994

    Given that the corporation tax cuts resulted in an increase in tax revenue, how exactly does reversing those cuts in tax give you £19.4 billion extra. It really is a magic money tree and Mason is the fungus growing on its trunk.
    You may be confusing correlation with causation - CT receipts could have risen as it's a smaller %, but of a much bigger profit base...
    The bigger profit base coming about because more businesses established themselves and those already established made more profit in the more business friendly environment caused by the reductions in CT. The FT gets this. Just a shame the Left do not.
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,221

    JackW said:

    What's the running (down the leg) total for the Conservative Bedwetters this afternoon ?

    I do not know, but I have tears of laughter running down my cheeks. Reading some of this lot has been a hoot.

    I wonder what will ACTUALLY happen? Roll on Thursday...

    (BTW, I am expecting a Tory win, less than 50 seats)
    Yes, this election is doing nothing for my productivity at work. Still think there will be a workable Tory majority albeit ideally the smaller the better and if they need DUP votes it's popcorn time. As I've said before I want the Tories to own the subsequent mess.

    That said, there are going to be some really weird results next Thursday night. One or two from way beyond leftfield I reckon. Lab gain Camborne & Redruth anyone? Only jesting ;)

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    edited June 2017
    Norm said:

    Pulpstar said:

    For sub sample lovers Ipsos Mori has Conservatives ahead in Greater London and for Scotland
    SNP 35 Lab 35 Con 21 LD 7 . Labour ahead in the Midlands .

    Labour best bloody take East Lothian.
    What's that - Corbynism rearing its head north of the border? I blame these rapid swings on social media. Or is the subsample a load of hogwash.
    Well it is SLAB's easiest target (I think) and I'm on at 10-1.
    Their voter contacts are down on 2015 though which is annoying.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    RobD said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Depends how next week goes.
    The funny thing is I have backed Hammond, Rudd, Osborne at 100/1 and Boris at 50/1 to be PM after the next election.

    If May dissolves over the weekend, it's not inconceivable that might still happen as the biggest Tory emergency recovery - ever.

    Ok, it is, but I might be able to lay my bets off.
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311

    Given that the corporation tax cuts resulted in an increase in tax revenue, how exactly does reversing those cuts in tax give you £19.4 billion extra. It really is a magic money tree and Mason is the fungus growing on its trunk.
    1.6bn from VAT on private school fees. - suddenly creates drop of 20% of those who can no longer afford - that's an additional 20% of approx 625000, with a further risk that the drop in numbers would then make some schools unviable. Admittedly those leaving would be on the lowest fees but realistically you might only get 1.4 billion and have to create 125 - 200k additional school places. 1 teacher per 30 kids that's an additional 6667 teachers at average 25k = 166,675,000. Then you would need new schools to house these children, and to expand provision. In 2012 the guardian report a school cost of 14 million. So you will have to build a staff at least 125 new schools at 14 million so a guess of 350 million. But these schools are needed straight away and cannot be built by a contractor whose chief executive has remuneration more than 20 times the tea boy.

    I'm pretty sure this is fully costed in the 5 page costing document
  • Options
    Has anyone commented on this yet?

    https://www.ft.com/content/8eb99046-3fb3-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2

    History points to a convincing Conservative victory

    Despite polls narrowing, a strong preference for May as PM suggests Tories will win
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,988
    Pong said:

    isam said:

    Andrew said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Seems unlikely at the moment ........ but say the polls are wrong by the same degree as they were last time, she'll have a majority around 90. The spreads suggest 70ish, Baxter predicts 74. Is that really such a disaster?
    That could be the answer! Look at the pols and factor in how wrong they usually are

    Which just takes you back to the old wisdom of they under estimate the right and over estimate the left
    I'm not sure left/right is particularly relevant right now.

    This is status quo / anti status quo. The polls are as likely to be underestimating labour as they are the tories.

    I think it was @pulpstar who was the first to notice the comments btl on the daily mail were really anti-May after the campaign kicked in.

    She's a liar, liar ooooh.
    The anti status quo being a bloke who has been an MP 34 years?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Lord Ashcroft predicts Labour will narrowly hold Great Grimsby. They're odds against to do so with the bookies. Seems like a worthwhile bet to me.
  • Options
    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    kjohnw said:
    Seen other reporters from across the political spectrum saying similar things, that they aren't seeing this Labour surge when talking to MP's campaigning. Just check social media.

    Who knows? Election night has gone from an early night to a must watch especially if the polls continue to narrow as well as leadership ratings.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563

    Has anyone commented on this yet?

    https://www.ft.com/content/8eb99046-3fb3-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2

    History points to a convincing Conservative victory

    Despite polls narrowing, a strong preference for May as PM suggests Tories will win

    It's a week old, and Mrs May's ratings have slumped since then.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,894
    isam said:

    Pong said:

    isam said:

    Andrew said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Seems unlikely at the moment ........ but say the polls are wrong by the same degree as they were last time, she'll have a majority around 90. The spreads suggest 70ish, Baxter predicts 74. Is that really such a disaster?
    That could be the answer! Look at the pols and factor in how wrong they usually are

    Which just takes you back to the old wisdom of they under estimate the right and over estimate the left
    I'm not sure left/right is particularly relevant right now.

    This is status quo / anti status quo. The polls are as likely to be underestimating labour as they are the tories.

    I think it was @pulpstar who was the first to notice the comments btl on the daily mail were really anti-May after the campaign kicked in.

    She's a liar, liar ooooh.
    The anti status quo being a bloke who has been an MP 34 years?
    If you cant see Corbyn is anti SQ you should probably visit SpecSavers
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Lord Ashcroft predicts Labour will narrowly hold Great Grimsby. They're odds against to do so with the bookies. Seems like a worthwhile bet to me.

    Lol Heading in for more punishment :) ?
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,138
    isam said:

    Andrew said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Seems unlikely at the moment ........ but say the polls are wrong by the same degree as they were last time, she'll have a majority around 90. The spreads suggest 70ish, Baxter predicts 74. Is that really such a disaster?
    That could be the answer! Look at the polls and factor in how wrong they usually are

    Which just takes you back to the old wisdom of they under estimate the right and over estimate the left
    But obviously the pollsters have tried to correct for that. Probably in essence some of them have done something as simple-minded as what you're suggesting. If you apply another correction on top of the first, there's a danger you'll end up with a one that's twice the size it should be.

    What we have now is pollsters' best guess. There's no particular reason to think it favours Labour. If it's wrong, it could be wrong in either direction.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    I have been thinking the same thing myself for some time. In the last election, thousands of hours were wasted by idiotic media outlets debating Hung Parliament scenarios. In this one, the press first started by assuming that the Tories would win by about 200 seats (and, therefore, spent an inordinate amount of time picking the Conservative manifesto to pieces, whilst only paying any attention e.g. to the cost of Labour's great herds of "free" ponies when Diane Abbott said something funny.) And now we have this new narrative of panic over Downing St incompetence and disappearing majorities, again because a handful of clever guesstimators in offices in London have said that this is what their dodgy numbers would suggest. We don't know if the numbers are anywhere close to being true - and, frankly, if they are then we'll probably never know how much the pollsters and the lazy hacks who report on them made the second scenario come true because they created the first one.

    Of course, even if the polls fail again - and fail worse than last time - then come the next General Election the narrative will, yet again, be dominated by them. Because opinion polling has acquired this air of pseudo-scientific legitimacy, when in fact it is nothing more than guesswork, and *may* be no more valid an indicator of the political mood of the nation than looking at real wages, unemployment, mortgage interest rates and other economic indicators, for example.
    If the polls are wrong then sites such as this have got to stop paying attention to them. It doesn't help that despite pollsters getting it wrong recently, we see have headers and discussion threads centred on xyz poll says this, and treating those polls as having a significant basis in reality.
    You are right, but that isn't what will happen unfortunately. We will just get threads on what the pollsters said in their post fuck up inquiry, with the ones that ones that were sitting on the chair when the music stopped championed as soothsayers
    It's fair to say that there's going to be a plane crash sized enquiry among the polling industry starting this time next week.

    Talking of plane crashes, sell IAG shares, BA have learned nothing from their metaphorical plane crash last weekend, and all the senior management are out to cover their own arses. Shareholder revolt coming.
    Independent Directors at BA are already calling for an independent review but reports say a contractor switched off the mains power by mistake
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    edited June 2017
    Jeremy Corbyn is not going to be Minister, Prime or otherwise
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    RobD said:

    Mr. Meeks, more interesting would be if Cameron had accepted the offer of associate membership. Full trade with minimal politics would've been hugely popular, if that was really on offer.

    Yes Mr D, but it was better to walk away with no deal than a bad deal.

    :D:D:D
    Well, Cameron did walk away with a bad deal. Look where that got him.
    Did he? I thought they told him to get lost?

    All in the distant mists of time now, back in the glory days
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    JackW said:

    What's the running (down the leg) total for the Conservative Bedwetters this afternoon ?

    I do not know, but I have tears of laughter running down my cheeks. Reading some of this lot has been a hoot.

    I wonder what will ACTUALLY happen? Roll on Thursday...

    (BTW, I am expecting a Tory win, less than 50 seats)
    I'm glad you're enjoying yourself :)

    At least this GE hasn't been boring, I guess.
    If 'landslide' is defined as >100, what's the word for 50-100 - a semi-landslide? I think that's the most likely. Not sure if the odds on it will offer any value, though.
    Betfair Exchange majority market:

    50-74 is 6.6 (~13/2)
    75-99 is 8 (7/1)

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28051210/market?marketId=1.131146542
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,336

    Given that the corporation tax cuts resulted in an increase in tax revenue, how exactly does reversing those cuts in tax give you £19.4 billion extra. It really is a magic money tree and Mason is the fungus growing on its trunk.
    1.6bn from VAT on private school fees. - suddenly creates drop of 20% of those who can no longer afford - that's an additional 20% of approx 625000, with a further risk that the drop in numbers would then make some schools unviable. Admittedly those leaving would be on the lowest fees but realistically you might only get 1.4 billion and have to create 125 - 200k additional school places. 1 teacher per 30 kids that's an additional 6667 teachers at average 25k = 166,675,000. Then you would need new schools to house these children, and to expand provision. In 2012 the guardian report a school cost of 14 million. So you will have to build a staff at least 125 new schools at 14 million so a guess of 350 million. But these schools are needed straight away and cannot be built by a contractor whose chief executive has remuneration more than 20 times the tea boy.

    I'm pretty sure this is fully costed in the 5 page costing document
    The only criticism I would make of your figures is I think they are unduly optimistic about the resilience of private schools to such a sudden, massive hike in fees. I would expect half to two thirds of PS children to be back in mainstream within twelve months.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,966

    Corbyn is accused of being a Personality Cult

    Tories struggle to build personality cult around leader with no personality

    LOL, this is true.

    @SouthamObserver What do you think of all these polls? Still think the Tories are on course for a majority?


    I do.

    A lot of people will already have voted and there are a lot of shy Tories, IMO. In the constituency where I live - Warwick & Leamington - the only posters you can see are Labour ones. But the Tories are almost certain to increase their majority. I just think Labour voters are more willing to share their views and to be identified with their party.

  • Options
    PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712

    Given that the corporation tax cuts resulted in an increase in tax revenue, how exactly does reversing those cuts in tax give you £19.4 billion extra. It really is a magic money tree and Mason is the fungus growing on its trunk.
    You may be confusing correlation with causation - CT receipts could have risen as it's a smaller %, but of a much bigger profit base...
    The bigger profit base coming about because more businesses established themselves and those already established made more profit in the more business friendly environment caused by the reductions in CT. The FT gets this. Just a shame the Left do not.
    That argument is circular - more money from lower tax rate from more 'friendly' environment from said lower tax rate - Excel would throw a CircRef!

    Bigger profits can also come from better economic circumstances generally

    That's not to say that your points can't also be true, just to point out that higher tax take during a lower rate period doesn't mean the lower rate caused it/or is the only cause...
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    RobD said:

    Mr. Meeks, more interesting would be if Cameron had accepted the offer of associate membership. Full trade with minimal politics would've been hugely popular, if that was really on offer.

    Yes Mr D, but it was better to walk away with no deal than a bad deal.

    :D:D:D
    Well, Cameron did walk away with a bad deal. Look where that got him.
    Did he? I thought they told him to get lost?

    All in the distant mists of time now, back in the glory days
    You don't remember his much-maligned renegotiation? It was crap.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    marke09 said:

    ydoethur said:

    marke09 said:

    According to theupdated Lord Ashcroft poll Plaid are now FOURTH in Ceredigion

    Which tells you all you need to know about Lord Ashcroft's polling methodology. It seems to have moved on very little from last time.
    YouGov yesterday had Plaid Cymru on 8% across Wales. The subsample for mid and west Wales had them on 9%. If that figure is remotely correct, Plaid Cymru must have lost quite a lot of ground in Ceredigion, given that in four of the eight seats in that region they were scraping the bottom of the barrel already. It also bodes ill for the two seats in that region they hold.

    Of course, it's just a subsample and not to be taken very seriously. But it fits with the wider Welsh picture and gives limited support to Lord Ashcroft's methodology.

    ydoethur said:

    marke09 said:

    According to theupdated Lord Ashcroft poll Plaid are now FOURTH in Ceredigion

    Which tells you all you need to know about Lord Ashcroft's polling methodology. It seems to have moved on very little from last time.
    YouGov yesterday had Plaid Cymru on 8% across Wales. The subsample for mid and west Wales had them on 9%. If that figure is remotely correct, Plaid Cymru must have lost quite a lot of ground in Ceredigion, given that in four of the eight seats in that region they were scraping the bottom of the barrel already. It also bodes ill for the two seats in that region they hold.

    Of course, it's just a subsample and not to be taken very seriously. But it fits with the wider Welsh picture and gives limited support to Lord Ashcroft's methodology.
    could be down to the large Welsh speaking student population of Aber having left for the summer
    Do you think the Aber and Lampeter students are more likely Plaid or LD voters these days? I had assumed the latter but it was 20 years since I studied there.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    I have been thinking the same thing myself for some time. In the last election, thousands of hours were wasted by idiotic media outlets debating Hung Parliament scenarios. In this one, the press first started by assuming that the Tories would win by about 200 seats (and, therefore, spent an inordinate amount of time picking the Conservative manifesto to pieces, whilst only paying any attention e.g. to the cost of Labour's great herds of "free" ponies when Diane Abbott said something funny.) And now we have this new narrative of panic over Downing St incompetence and disappearing majorities, again because a handful of clever guesstimators in offices in London have said that this is what their dodgy numbers would suggest. We don't know if the numbers are anywhere close to being true - and, frankly, if they are then we'll probably never know how much the pollsters and the lazy hacks who report on them made the second scenario come true because they created the first one.

    Of course, even if the polls fail again - and fail worse than last time - then come the next General Election the narrative will, yet again, be dominated by them. Because opinion polling has acquired this air of pseudo-scientific legitimacy, when in fact it is nothing more than guesswork, and *may* be no more valid an indicator of the political mood of the nation than looking at real wages, unemployment, mortgage interest rates and other economic indicators, for example.
    If the polls are wrong then sites such as this have got to stop paying attention to them. It doesn't help that despite pollsters getting it wrong recently, we see have headers and discussion threads centred on xyz poll says this, and treating those polls as having a significant basis in reality.
    You are right, but that isn't what will happen unfortunately. We will just get threads on what the pollsters said in their post fuck up inquiry, with the ones that ones that were sitting on the chair when the music stopped championed as soothsayers
    It's fair to say that there's going to be a plane crash sized enquiry among the polling industry starting this time next week.

    Talking of plane crashes, sell IAG shares, BA have learned nothing from their metaphorical plane crash last weekend, and all the senior management are out to cover their own arses. Shareholder revolt coming.
    Independent Directors at BA are already calling for an independent review but reports say a contractor switched off the mains power by mistake
    Vacuum cleaners only work if you plug them in?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    Given that the corporation tax cuts resulted in an increase in tax revenue, how exactly does reversing those cuts in tax give you £19.4 billion extra. It really is a magic money tree and Mason is the fungus growing on its trunk.
    You may be confusing correlation with causation - CT receipts could have risen as it's a smaller %, but of a much bigger profit base...
    The bigger profit base coming about because more businesses established themselves and those already established made more profit in the more business friendly environment caused by the reductions in CT. The FT gets this. Just a shame the Left do not.
    That argument is circular - more money from lower tax rate from more 'friendly' environment from said lower tax rate - Excel would throw a CircRef!

    Bigger profits can also come from better economic circumstances generally

    That's not to say that your points can't also be true, just to point out that higher tax take during a lower rate period doesn't mean the lower rate caused it/or is the only cause...
    It's all about finding the optimum value. As with all things, it's probably somewhere in the middle.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited June 2017

    Corbyn is accused of being a Personality Cult

    Tories struggle to build personality cult around leader with no personality

    LOL, this is true.

    @SouthamObserver What do you think of all these polls? Still think the Tories are on course for a majority?


    I do.

    A lot of people will already have voted and there are a lot of shy Tories, IMO. In the constituency where I live - Warwick & Leamington - the only posters you can see are Labour ones. But the Tories are almost certain to increase their majority. I just think Labour voters are more willing to share their views and to be identified with their party.

    You're one of the few posters on here to call EUref and Presidental Election 2016 right, so we may see a Conservative majority after all.

    Just thinking now that a Hard Brexit could have the exact same impact that McDonnell economics would have, so either way we'd be in for a terrible time economically.

    I'll be voting LD, despite my reservations about Farron.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pulpstar said:

    Much as I hate to admit this Labour probably ahead in a fair few "raws".

    Diane Abbott in the "raw" ....

    Nurse !!!!!!!!!! .... :cry:
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    edited June 2017
    Theresa May protest outside the BBC playing the 'Liar Liar' song and 'you can't trust her' so I walked passed and shouted 'no she isn't' and 'yes you can' before swiftly moving on
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    I have been thinking the same thing myself for some time. In the last election, thousands of hours were wasted by idiotic media outlets debating Hung Parliament scenarios. In this one, the press first started by assuming that the Tories would win by about 200 seats (and, therefore, spent an inordinate amount of time picking the Conservative manifesto to pieces, whilst only paying any attention e.g. to the cost of Labour's great herds of "free" ponies when Diane Abbott said something funny.) And now we have this new narrative of panic over Downing St incompetence and disappearing majorities, again because a handful of clever guesstimators in offices in London have said that this is what their dodgy numbers would suggest. We don't know if the numbers are anywhere close to being true - and, frankly, if they are then we'll probably never know how much the pollsters and the lazy hacks who report on them made the second scenario come true because they created the first one.

    Of course, even if the polls fail again - and fail worse than last time - then come the next General Election the narrative will, yet again, be dominated by them. Because opinion polling has acquired this air of pseudo-scientific legitimacy, when in fact it is nothing more than guesswork, and *may* be no more valid an indicator of the political mood of the nation than looking at real wages, unemployment, mortgage interest rates and other economic indicators, for example.
    If the polls are wrong then sites such as this have got to stop paying attention to them. It doesn't help that despite pollsters getting it wrong recently, we see have headers and discussion threads centred on xyz poll says this, and treating those polls as having a significant basis in reality.
    You are right, but that isn't what will happen unfortunately. We will just get threads on what the pollsters said in their post fuck up inquiry, with the ones that ones that were sitting on the chair when the music stopped championed as soothsayers
    It's fair to say that there's going to be a plane crash sized enquiry among the polling industry starting this time next week.

    Talking of plane crashes, sell IAG shares, BA have learned nothing from their metaphorical plane crash last weekend, and all the senior management are out to cover their own arses. Shareholder revolt coming.
    Independent Directors at BA are already calling for an independent review but reports say a contractor switched off the mains power by mistake
    Vacuum cleaners only work if you plug them in?
    LOL.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,988
    edited June 2017

    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    Andrew said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Seems unlikely at the moment ........ but say the polls are wrong by the same degree as they were last time, she'll have a majority around 90. The spreads suggest 70ish, Baxter predicts 74. Is that really such a disaster?
    That could be the answer! Look at the polls and factor in how wrong they usually are

    Which just takes you back to the old wisdom of they under estimate the right and over estimate the left
    Except the pollsters are almost all furiously making significant adjustments to their raw results to compensate for precisely that?
    Tbf, pollsters making adjustments doesn't mean they can't be wrong. I'm sure pollsters made adjustments after 2015, but it didn't stop them getting EUref wrong.
    Have you seen this interview? Good on charlatans who throw a lot of predictions about then focus on the one the fluked

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X56Kmbgn6dE
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,894
    edited June 2017
    RIP Status Quo Support

    I thought they were ahead of their time.

    Think this one refers to Weak and Wobbly's ratings

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlR4Z4AZ1ho
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,966

    Corbyn is accused of being a Personality Cult

    Tories struggle to build personality cult around leader with no personality

    LOL, this is true.

    @SouthamObserver What do you think of all these polls? Still think the Tories are on course for a majority?


    I do.

    A lot of people will already have voted and there are a lot of shy Tories, IMO. In the constituency where I live - Warwick & Leamington - the only posters you can see are Labour ones. But the Tories are almost certain to increase their majority. I just think Labour voters are more willing to share their views and to be identified with their party.

    You're one of the few posters on here to call EUref and Presidental Election 2016 right, so we may see a Conservative majority.

    Just thinking now that a Hard Brexit could have the exact same impact that McDonnell economics would have, so either way we'd be in for a terrible time economically.

    I'll be voting LD, despite my reservations about Farron.

    I'll be LD, too, I reckon.

  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,994

    Given that the corporation tax cuts resulted in an increase in tax revenue, how exactly does reversing those cuts in tax give you £19.4 billion extra. It really is a magic money tree and Mason is the fungus growing on its trunk.
    1.6bn from VAT on private school fees. - suddenly creates drop of 20% of those who can no longer afford - that's an additional 20% of approx 625000, with a further risk that the drop in numbers would then make some schools unviable. Admittedly those leaving would be on the lowest fees but realistically you might only get 1.4 billion and have to create 125 - 200k additional school places. 1 teacher per 30 kids that's an additional 6667 teachers at average 25k = 166,675,000. Then you would need new schools to house these children, and to expand provision. In 2012 the guardian report a school cost of 14 million. So you will have to build a staff at least 125 new schools at 14 million so a guess of 350 million. But these schools are needed straight away and cannot be built by a contractor whose chief executive has remuneration more than 20 times the tea boy.

    I'm pretty sure this is fully costed in the 5 page costing document
    LOL. Yep.

  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    HYUFD said:



    Independent Directors at BA are already calling for an independent review but reports say a contractor switched off the mains power by mistake

    That is a standard Disaster Recovery scenario. It should have caused UPSs to cut in and the standby diesel generators to start. If that is all it was then the interruption should only have lasted minutes if noticed at all.

    If they failed a standard DR scenario then somebody's head somewhere is going to roll...
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May protest outside the BBC playing the 'Liar Liar' song and 'you can't trust her' so I walked passed and shouted 'no she isn't' and 'yes you can' before swiftly moving on

    That'll teach them :D

    (fair play to you though)
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Freggles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is not going to be Minister, Prime or otherwise

    He might be a shadow minister one day.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    @isam No, I haven't seen it. Will give it a watch now.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    Yorkcity said:

    Freggles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is not going to be Minister, Prime or otherwise

    He might be a shadow minister one day.
    Isn't he shadow minister for the civil service?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,966
    Two more Corbyn thoughts:

    1. The attacks on him in this weekend's right wing press are going to be something to behold. More savage than anything we have ever seen before.
    2. The way he has campaigned over the last month proves categorically he had no intetest at all in Remain winning the referendum. He won it for you, Leavers!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,988

    isam said:

    Pong said:

    isam said:

    Andrew said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Seems unlikely at the moment ........ but say the polls are wrong by the same degree as they were last time, she'll have a majority around 90. The spreads suggest 70ish, Baxter predicts 74. Is that really such a disaster?
    That could be the answer! Look at the pols and factor in how wrong they usually are

    Which just takes you back to the old wisdom of they under estimate the right and over estimate the left
    I'm not sure left/right is particularly relevant right now.

    This is status quo / anti status quo. The polls are as likely to be underestimating labour as they are the tories.

    I think it was @pulpstar who was the first to notice the comments btl on the daily mail were really anti-May after the campaign kicked in.

    She's a liar, liar ooooh.
    The anti status quo being a bloke who has been an MP 34 years?
    If you cant see Corbyn is anti SQ you should probably visit SpecSavers
    He has made a decent living off the tax payer for 34 years in one of the countries oldest institutions. What a rebel!
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,221

    Corbyn is accused of being a Personality Cult

    Tories struggle to build personality cult around leader with no personality

    LOL, this is true.

    @SouthamObserver What do you think of all these polls? Still think the Tories are on course for a majority?


    I do.

    A lot of people will already have voted and there are a lot of shy Tories, IMO. In the constituency where I live - Warwick & Leamington - the only posters you can see are Labour ones. But the Tories are almost certain to increase their majority. I just think Labour voters are more willing to share their views and to be identified with their party.

    You're one of the few posters on here to call EUref and Presidental Election 2016 right, so we may see a Conservative majority after all.

    Just thinking now that a Hard Brexit could have the exact same impact that McDonnell economics would have, so either way we'd be in for a terrible time economically.

    I'll be voting LD, despite my reservations about Farron.
    What constituency are you in Ms Apocalypse?
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078

    Corbyn is accused of being a Personality Cult

    Tories struggle to build personality cult around leader with no personality

    Less "Strong and Stable",more Humpty Dumpty.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408

    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    Andrew said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Seems unlikely at the moment ........ but say the polls are wrong by the same degree as they were last time, she'll have a majority around 90. The spreads suggest 70ish, Baxter predicts 74. Is that really such a disaster?
    That could be the answer! Look at the polls and factor in how wrong they usually are

    Which just takes you back to the old wisdom of they under estimate the right and over estimate the left
    Except the pollsters are almost all furiously making significant adjustments to their raw results to compensate for precisely that?
    Tbf, pollsters making adjustments doesn't mean they can't be wrong. I'm sure pollsters made adjustments after 2015, but it didn't stop them getting EUref wrong.
    Of course not. Statistically, however, it does make the direction in which the post-adjustment polls might be wrong a 50/50 call. Saying that polls "used" to understate the Tories is missing the point.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,994

    Given that the corporation tax cuts resulted in an increase in tax revenue, how exactly does reversing those cuts in tax give you £19.4 billion extra. It really is a magic money tree and Mason is the fungus growing on its trunk.
    You may be confusing correlation with causation - CT receipts could have risen as it's a smaller %, but of a much bigger profit base...
    The bigger profit base coming about because more businesses established themselves and those already established made more profit in the more business friendly environment caused by the reductions in CT. The FT gets this. Just a shame the Left do not.
    That argument is circular - more money from lower tax rate from more 'friendly' environment from said lower tax rate - Excel would throw a CircRef!

    Bigger profits can also come from better economic circumstances generally

    That's not to say that your points can't also be true, just to point out that higher tax take during a lower rate period doesn't mean the lower rate caused it/or is the only cause...
    It certainly appears to be in this case. The actual increase was just under 24% but the analysts said about half of that was due to other factors leaving around 12.5% due to the decrease in CT.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    @Monksfield Watford.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060
    RobD said:

    Brom said:

    Why don't you show us a link from The Canary too!
    Definitely no sign of a lack of May on party literature on my doormat.
    Checked the post and we've now had 9 leaflets in Maidenhead - 3 LD, 2 Con, 2 UKIP, 1 Green, 1 Just Political Party. The Con one had 6 pages plastered with pages of Tezzy as you might expect. Really surprised at how many we have had when this is the 3rd safest Con seat!
    Always worth making sure your leader doesn't get decapitated.

    How are things looking in Westmorland? :D
    Westmoreland is, in theory, the safest LibDem seat.

    In reality, Orkney & Shetland is the safest LibDem seat.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,894
    Sandpit said:

    JackW said:

    What's the running (down the leg) total for the Conservative Bedwetters this afternoon ?

    I do not know, but I have tears of laughter running down my cheeks. Reading some of this lot has been a hoot.

    I wonder what will ACTUALLY happen? Roll on Thursday...

    (BTW, I am expecting a Tory win, less than 50 seats)
    I'm glad you're enjoying yourself :)

    At least this GE hasn't been boring, I guess.
    If 'landslide' is defined as >100, what's the word for 50-100 - a semi-landslide? I think that's the most likely. Not sure if the odds on it will offer any value, though.
    Betfair Exchange majority market:

    50-74 is 6.6 (~13/2)
    75-99 is 8 (7/1)

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28051210/market?marketId=1.131146542
    Thats pretty good TBF
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    Andrew said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Seems unlikely at the moment ........ but say the polls are wrong by the same degree as they were last time, she'll have a majority around 90. The spreads suggest 70ish, Baxter predicts 74. Is that really such a disaster?
    That could be the answer! Look at the polls and factor in how wrong they usually are

    Which just takes you back to the old wisdom of they under estimate the right and over estimate the left
    Except the pollsters are almost all furiously making significant adjustments to their raw results to compensate for precisely that?
    Tbf, pollsters making adjustments doesn't mean they can't be wrong. I'm sure pollsters made adjustments after 2015, but it didn't stop them getting EUref wrong.
    Of course not. Statistically, however, it does make the direction in which the post-adjustment polls might be wrong a 50/50 call. Saying that polls "used" to understate the Tories is missing the point.
    You'd have thought they would be constantly tweaking their models after each election, yet every time the Tories are underestimated.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    @Monksfield Watford.

    :) Defo vote Lib Dem there.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,994

    RobD said:

    Mr. Meeks, more interesting would be if Cameron had accepted the offer of associate membership. Full trade with minimal politics would've been hugely popular, if that was really on offer.

    Yes Mr D, but it was better to walk away with no deal than a bad deal.

    :D:D:D
    Well, Cameron did walk away with a bad deal. Look where that got him.
    Did he? I thought they told him to get lost?

    All in the distant mists of time now, back in the glory days
    He accepted a rotten deal and then tried to sell it to the public who told him to take a hike.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    If the polls are wrong then sites such as this have got to stop paying attention to them. It doesn't help that despite pollsters getting it wrong recently, we see have headers and discussion threads centred on xyz poll says this, and treating those polls as having a significant basis in reality.
    You are right, but that isn't what will happen unfortunately. We will just get threads on what the pollsters said in their post fuck up inquiry, with the ones that ones that were sitting on the chair when the music stopped championed as soothsayers
    It's fair to say that there's going to be a plane crash sized enquiry among the polling industry starting this time next week.

    Talking of plane crashes, sell IAG shares, BA have learned nothing from their metaphorical plane crash last weekend, and all the senior management are out to cover their own arses. Shareholder revolt coming.
    Independent Directors at BA are already calling for an independent review but reports say a contractor switched off the mains power by mistake
    Yep, that's about the fourth different story so far and it's clearly as much bollocks as all the previous ones. It would be impossible for any one switch to shut down a data centre - we call that a single point of failure in IT - and if for some magic reason it did then the backup data centre should have taken over.

    That this didn't happen is management failure on an epic scale, I really wouldn't want to be Mr Cruz or Mr Walsh right now. The former hired the latter to oversee cost cutting and outsourcing of most IT functions.
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    PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712

    Given that the corporation tax cuts resulted in an increase in tax revenue, how exactly does reversing those cuts in tax give you £19.4 billion extra. It really is a magic money tree and Mason is the fungus growing on its trunk.
    You may be confusing correlation with causation - CT receipts could have risen as it's a smaller %, but of a much bigger profit base...
    The bigger profit base coming about because more businesses established themselves and those already established made more profit in the more business friendly environment caused by the reductions in CT. The FT gets this. Just a shame the Left do not.
    That argument is circular - more money from lower tax rate from more 'friendly' environment from said lower tax rate - Excel would throw a CircRef!

    Bigger profits can also come from better economic circumstances generally

    That's not to say that your points can't also be true, just to point out that higher tax take during a lower rate period doesn't mean the lower rate caused it/or is the only cause...
    It certainly appears to be in this case. The actual increase was just under 24% but the analysts said about half of that was due to other factors leaving around 12.5% due to the decrease in CT.
    Which could also be our new rate under Spreadshit Phil next week!

    Or probably not...
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314

    HYUFD said:



    Independent Directors at BA are already calling for an independent review but reports say a contractor switched off the mains power by mistake

    That is a standard Disaster Recovery scenario. It should have caused UPSs to cut in and the standby diesel generators to start. If that is all it was then the interruption should only have lasted minutes if noticed at all.

    If they failed a standard DR scenario then somebody's head somewhere is going to roll...
    :+1:
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,221

    isam said:

    Pong said:

    isam said:

    Andrew said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Seems unlikely at the moment ........ but say the polls are wrong by the same degree as they were last time, she'll have a majority around 90. The spreads suggest 70ish, Baxter predicts 74. Is that really such a disaster?
    That could be the answer! Look at the pols and factor in how wrong they usually are

    Which just takes you back to the old wisdom of they under estimate the right and over estimate the left
    I'm not sure left/right is particularly relevant right now.

    This is status quo / anti status quo. The polls are as likely to be underestimating labour as they are the tories.

    I think it was @pulpstar who was the first to notice the comments btl on the daily mail were really anti-May after the campaign kicked in.

    She's a liar, liar ooooh.
    The anti status quo being a bloke who has been an MP 34 years?
    If you cant see Corbyn is anti SQ you should probably visit SpecSavers
    The amazing thing is that people who participated in an anti establishment kicking last June, then cheered another one on in November now seem surprised that the anti establishment mood is turning on the most pro-establishment party of all.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. HYUFD, I hope the QT audience is balanced.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,128

    Two more Corbyn thoughts:

    1. The attacks on him in this weekend's right wing press are going to be something to behold. More savage than anything we have ever seen before.
    2. The way he has campaigned over the last month proves categorically he had no intetest at all in Remain winning the referendum. He won it for you, Leavers!

    Your second point is very sound.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408

    Corbyn is accused of being a Personality Cult

    Tories struggle to build personality cult around leader with no personality

    LOL, this is true.

    @SouthamObserver What do you think of all these polls? Still think the Tories are on course for a majority?


    I do.

    A lot of people will already have voted and there are a lot of shy Tories, IMO. In the constituency where I live - Warwick & Leamington - the only posters you can see are Labour ones. But the Tories are almost certain to increase their majority. I just think Labour voters are more willing to share their views and to be identified with their party.

    You're one of the few posters on here to call EUref and Presidental Election 2016 right, so we may see a Conservative majority.

    Just thinking now that a Hard Brexit could have the exact same impact that McDonnell economics would have, so either way we'd be in for a terrible time economically.

    I'll be voting LD, despite my reservations about Farron.

    I'll be LD, too, I reckon.

    http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21722855-leaders-both-main-parties-have-turned-away-decades-old-vision-open-liberal
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Freggles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is not going to be Minister, Prime or otherwise

    Should the fantasy of PM Jezza occur we will again have five living former PM's

    Last time 1995. John Major - Home and Wilson died that year and Callaghan, Heath and Thatcher.

    Before that both 1923/24 when Baldwin and MacDonald were PM.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Sandpit said:

    marke09 said:

    ydoethur said:

    marke09 said:

    According to theupdated Lord Ashcroft poll Plaid are now FOURTH in Ceredigion

    Which tells you all you need to know about Lord Ashcroft's polling methodology. It seems to have moved on very little from last time.
    YouGov yesterday had Plaid Cymru on 8% across Wales. The subsample for mid and west Wales had them on 9%. If that figure is remotely correct, Plaid Cymru must have lost quite a lot of ground in Ceredigion, given that in four of the eight seats in that region they were scraping the bottom of the barrel already. It also bodes ill for the two seats in that region they hold.

    Of course, it's just a subsample and not to be taken very seriously. But it fits with the wider Welsh picture and gives limited support to Lord Ashcroft's methodology.

    ydoethur said:

    marke09 said:

    According to theupdated Lord Ashcroft poll Plaid are now FOURTH in Ceredigion

    Which tells you all you need to know about Lord Ashcroft's polling methodology. It seems to have moved on very little from last time.
    YouGov yesterday had Plaid Cymru on 8% across Wales. The subsample for mid and west Wales had them on 9%. If that figure is remotely correct, Plaid Cymru must have lost quite a lot of ground in Ceredigion, given that in four of the eight seats in that region they were scraping the bottom of the barrel already. It also bodes ill for the two seats in that region they hold.

    Of course, it's just a subsample and not to be taken very seriously. But it fits with the wider Welsh picture and gives limited support to Lord Ashcroft's methodology.
    could be down to the large Welsh speaking student population of Aber having left for the summer
    Do you think the Aber and Lampeter students are more likely Plaid or LD voters these days? I had assumed the latter but it was 20 years since I studied there.
    Lamps was > 80% English when I was there 30 years ago, and if anything might be more in years since as it had a Welsh Department back then which is long gone now. No idea about Aber.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,988

    @isam No, I haven't seen it. Will give it a watch now.

    This is probably a better example

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-ic2OqXEk
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Corbyn is accused of being a Personality Cult

    Tories struggle to build personality cult around leader with no personality

    LOL, this is true.

    @SouthamObserver What do you think of all these polls? Still think the Tories are on course for a majority?


    I do.

    A lot of people will already have voted and there are a lot of shy Tories, IMO. In the constituency where I live - Warwick & Leamington - the only posters you can see are Labour ones. But the Tories are almost certain to increase their majority. I just think Labour voters are more willing to share their views and to be identified with their party.

    You're one of the few posters on here to call EUref and Presidental Election 2016 right, so we may see a Conservative majority after all.

    Just thinking now that a Hard Brexit could have the exact same impact that McDonnell economics would have, so either way we'd be in for a terrible time economically.

    I'll be voting LD, despite my reservations about Farron.
    In the summer of 2012 he said everyday that
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,994

    Given that the corporation tax cuts resulted in an increase in tax revenue, how exactly does reversing those cuts in tax give you £19.4 billion extra. It really is a magic money tree and Mason is the fungus growing on its trunk.
    You may be confusing correlation with causation - CT receipts could have risen as it's a smaller %, but of a much bigger profit base...
    The bigger profit base coming about because more businesses established themselves and those already established made more profit in the more business friendly environment caused by the reductions in CT. The FT gets this. Just a shame the Left do not.
    That argument is circular - more money from lower tax rate from more 'friendly' environment from said lower tax rate - Excel would throw a CircRef!

    Bigger profits can also come from better economic circumstances generally

    That's not to say that your points can't also be true, just to point out that higher tax take during a lower rate period doesn't mean the lower rate caused it/or is the only cause...
    It certainly appears to be in this case. The actual increase was just under 24% but the analysts said about half of that was due to other factors leaving around 12.5% due to the decrease in CT.
    Which could also be our new rate under Spreadshit Phil next week!

    Or probably not...
    No one says we should keep bringing it down forever. There is a point at which it is counter productive. But it does not appear that 19% is that point. Whether it should be reduced any more is debatable. Personally I would prefer a flat tax of 20% across the board but like so many of my other preferences it is never going to happen.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Romney would win The US election.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    isam said:

    Pong said:

    isam said:

    Andrew said:

    Whatever happens now, May will not be PM this time next year, will she?

    Seems unlikely at the moment ........ but say the polls are wrong by the same degree as they were last time, she'll have a majority around 90. The spreads suggest 70ish, Baxter predicts 74. Is that really such a disaster?
    That could be the answer! Look at the pols and factor in how wrong they usually are

    Which just takes you back to the old wisdom of they under estimate the right and over estimate the left
    I'm not sure left/right is particularly relevant right now.

    This is status quo / anti status quo. The polls are as likely to be underestimating labour as they are the tories.

    I think it was @pulpstar who was the first to notice the comments btl on the daily mail were really anti-May after the campaign kicked in.

    She's a liar, liar ooooh.
    The anti status quo being a bloke who has been an MP 34 years?
    If you cant see Corbyn is anti SQ you should probably visit SpecSavers
    The amazing thing is that people who participated in an anti establishment kicking last June, then cheered another one on in November now seem surprised that the anti establishment mood is turning on the most pro-establishment party of all.
    +1.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,128
    Was May really campaigning with TP today !?!?!

    https://twitter.com/aaron4donvalley
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,221

    @Monksfield Watford.

    Ah, for some reason I thought you were in London somewhere. I thought Thornhill might have taken Watford last time but that was before the kicking turned out to be as bad as it was!
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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    rpjs said:

    Sandpit said:

    marke09 said:

    ydoethur said:

    marke09 said:

    According to theupdated Lord Ashcroft poll Plaid are now FOURTH in Ceredigion

    Which tells you all you need to know about Lord Ashcroft's polling methodology. It seems to have moved on very little from last time.
    YouGov yesterday had Plaid Cymru on 8% across Wales. The subsample for mid and west Wales had them on 9%. If that figure is remotely correct, Plaid Cymru must have lost quite a lot of ground in Ceredigion, given that in four of the eight seats in that region they were scraping the bottom of the barrel already. It also bodes ill for the two seats in that region they hold.

    Of course, it's just a subsample and not to be taken very seriously. But it fits with the wider Welsh picture and gives limited support to Lord Ashcroft's methodology.

    ydoethur said:

    marke09 said:

    According to theupdated Lord Ashcroft poll Plaid are now FOURTH in Ceredigion

    Which tells you all you need to know about Lord Ashcroft's polling methodology. It seems to have moved on very little from last time.
    YouGov yesterday had Plaid Cymru on 8% across Wales. The subsample for mid and west Wales had them on 9%. If that figure is remotely correct, Plaid Cymru must have lost quite a lot of ground in Ceredigion, given that in four of the eight seats in that region they were scraping the bottom of the barrel already. It also bodes ill for the two seats in that region they hold.

    Of course, it's just a subsample and not to be taken very seriously. But it fits with the wider Welsh picture and gives limited support to Lord Ashcroft's methodology.
    could be down to the large Welsh speaking student population of Aber having left for the summer
    Do you think the Aber and Lampeter students are more likely Plaid or LD voters these days? I had assumed the latter but it was 20 years since I studied there.
    Lamps was > 80% English when I was there 30 years ago, and if anything might be more in years since as it had a Welsh Department back then which is long gone now. No idea about Aber.
    Very English. And probably gone by next Thursday.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314

    Two more Corbyn thoughts:

    1. The attacks on him in this weekend's right wing press are going to be something to behold. More savage than anything we have ever seen before.
    2. The way he has campaigned over the last month proves categorically he had no intetest at all in Remain winning the referendum. He won it for you, Leavers!

    Your second point is very sound.
    Tories need to talk about tax, tax, tax from now until Thursday.
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    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    ydoethur said:

    Given that the corporation tax cuts resulted in an increase in tax revenue, how exactly does reversing those cuts in tax give you £19.4 billion extra. It really is a magic money tree and Mason is the fungus growing on its trunk.
    1.6bn from VAT on private school fees. - suddenly creates drop of 20% of those who can no longer afford - that's an additional 20% of approx 625000, with a further risk that the drop in numbers would then make some schools unviable. Admittedly those leaving would be on the lowest fees but realistically you might only get 1.4 billion and have to create 125 - 200k additional school places. 1 teacher per 30 kids that's an additional 6667 teachers at average 25k = 166,675,000. Then you would need new schools to house these children, and to expand provision. In 2012 the guardian report a school cost of 14 million. So you will have to build a staff at least 125 new schools at 14 million so a guess of 350 million. But these schools are needed straight away and cannot be built by a contractor whose chief executive has remuneration more than 20 times the tea boy.

    I'm pretty sure this is fully costed in the 5 page costing document
    The only criticism I would make of your figures is I think they are unduly optimistic about the resilience of private schools to such a sudden, massive hike in fees. I would expect half to two thirds of PS children to be back in mainstream within twelve months.
    I wanted to show in 5 minutes googling that the Labour costing document is nonsense. I agree if Labour get in and increase taxes across the board, push a significant amount of high income people and business offshore, They could suddenly have to find much more money - it's crazy. What next taxing private health insurance out of existence!
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Lord Ashcroft predicts Labour will narrowly hold Great Grimsby. They're odds against to do so with the bookies. Seems like a worthwhile bet to me.

    I looked at this one. Anyone know why Melanie Onn didn't stand again?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    If Cons really are worried, then back both NOM and Lab Maj on BF currently 5.9 and 25. A few hundred quid hedge on a non-Cons govt will very very slightly ease the pain that will come with a Lab govt.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,252
    Pulpstar said:

    Norm said:

    Pulpstar said:

    For sub sample lovers Ipsos Mori has Conservatives ahead in Greater London and for Scotland
    SNP 35 Lab 35 Con 21 LD 7 . Labour ahead in the Midlands .

    Labour best bloody take East Lothian.
    What's that - Corbynism rearing its head north of the border? I blame these rapid swings on social media. Or is the subsample a load of hogwash.
    Well it is SLAB's easiest target (I think) and I'm on at 10-1.
    Their voter contacts are down on 2015 though which is annoying.
    I think you're going to have to depend on the Corbyn tide floating all boats rather than any agency of SLab.

    Teeny anecdote, my brother in Edinburgh South who's voting tends to be a bit all over the shop (though he has campaigned for the SNP and voted for indy) will be voting for Mr Murray.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    Was May really campaigning with TP today !?!?!

    https://twitter.com/aaron4donvalley

    Yes, so either CCHQ has gone mad, or they are seeing a different picture from what the polls are telling us.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Yorkcity said:

    Romney would win The US election.

    Yes, but that was four years ago - given the anti-establishment mood now, it's important to look at who foresaw Trump and Brexit. JackW prior to the last year ago, apparently called everything right, but didn't foresee either Brexit or Trump. JohnO foresaw Brexit, but not Trump.

    @isam I'll give that one a look as well. Thanks.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408
    TOPPING said:

    If Cons really are worried, then back both NOM and Lab Maj on BF currently 5.9 and 25. A few hundred quid hedge on a non-Cons govt will very very slightly ease the pain that will come with a Lab govt.

    My money is on the Tories, with the same thought in mind.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,894
    edited June 2017
    JackW said:

    Freggles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is not going to be Minister, Prime or otherwise

    Should the fantasy of PM Jezza occur
    Is your ARSE starting to go weak and wobbly like Theresa May's? :open_mouth:

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563

    Lord Ashcroft predicts Labour will narrowly hold Great Grimsby. They're odds against to do so with the bookies. Seems like a worthwhile bet to me.

    I looked at this one. Anyone know why Melanie Onn didn't stand again?
    She is standing again.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    If Cons really are worried, then back both NOM and Lab Maj on BF currently 5.9 and 25. A few hundred quid hedge on a non-Cons govt will very very slightly ease the pain that will come with a Lab govt.

    My money is on the Tories, with the same thought in mind.
    Hey I'm hoping to get a nice holiday out of it, not a packet of fags...
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408

    Two more Corbyn thoughts:

    1. The attacks on him in this weekend's right wing press are going to be something to behold. More savage than anything we have ever seen before.
    2. The way he has campaigned over the last month proves categorically he had no intetest at all in Remain winning the referendum. He won it for you, Leavers!

    Your second point is very sound.
    Tories need to talk about tax, tax, tax from now until Thursday.
    Because negative campaigning has worked out so well for them so far?

    And people don't suspect taxes are going up even if the Tories do win?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited June 2017

    Two more Corbyn thoughts:

    1. The attacks on him in this weekend's right wing press are going to be something to behold. More savage than anything we have ever seen before.
    2. The way he has campaigned over the last month proves categorically he had no intetest at all in Remain winning the referendum. He won it for you, Leavers!

    Your second point is very sound.
    Tories need to talk about tax, tax, tax from now until Thursday.
    Yes, yes and yes again.

    Here's a good start:
    https://twitter.com/patel4witham/status/870184658075615232
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,994

    Two more Corbyn thoughts:

    1. The attacks on him in this weekend's right wing press are going to be something to behold. More savage than anything we have ever seen before.
    2. The way he has campaigned over the last month proves categorically he had no intetest at all in Remain winning the referendum. He won it for you, Leavers!

    He could have had the courage of his convictions and actually campaigned for Leave since we all know that was his personal preference. Then we might have seen an even bigger Leave win and there would have been no need for this election.....

    ..... which thinking about it would have been dumb from Corbyn's point of view. If he wins I might have to accept that he is simply a tactical genius.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Mr. HYUFD, I hope the QT audience is balanced.

    Bags of popcorn in both hands?
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,221

    Two more Corbyn thoughts:

    1. The attacks on him in this weekend's right wing press are going to be something to behold. More savage than anything we have ever seen before.
    2. The way he has campaigned over the last month proves categorically he had no intetest at all in Remain winning the referendum. He won it for you, Leavers!

    Your second point is very sound.
    Tories need to talk about tax, tax, tax from now until Thursday.
    I don't think project fear will be effective. They need to offer something positive, which has been entirely missing from their prospectus thus far.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Well come this time next week we will have witnessed the greatest f##k-up in modern British GE history....just what f##k up will it be....that Kim Jong May has managed to lose against a terrorist sympathizer and his band of marxists or the polling companies need to just shut down.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    If the DNV and youth are turning out its entirely possible both parties are missing it. They are playing BAU but if it's not BAU...............
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Two more Corbyn thoughts:

    1. The attacks on him in this weekend's right wing press are going to be something to behold. More savage than anything we have ever seen before.
    2. The way he has campaigned over the last month proves categorically he had no intetest at all in Remain winning the referendum. He won it for you, Leavers!

    Your second point is very sound.
    Tories need to talk about tax, tax, tax from now until Thursday.
    Yes they do on the ones the conservatives are going to be putting up to reduce the deficit.The public like straight talking honesty .
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291

    Mr. HYUFD, I hope the QT audience is balanced.

    By balanced you mean between centre left and far left....

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131

    Mr. HYUFD, I hope the QT audience is balanced.

    I hope the protesters were not the audience filling up time in the afternoon but I think the viewers know a biased audience when they see one
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,818

    JackW said:

    What's the running (down the leg) total for the Conservative Bedwetters this afternoon ?

    I do not know, but I have tears of laughter running down my cheeks. Reading some of this lot has been a hoot.

    I wonder what will ACTUALLY happen? Roll on Thursday...

    (BTW, I am expecting a Tory win, less than 50 seats)
    I'm glad you're enjoying yourself :)

    At least this GE hasn't been boring, I guess.
    If 'landslide' is defined as >100, what's the word for 50-100 - a semi-landslide? I think that's the most likely. Not sure if the odds on it will offer any value, though.
    Landslip
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    @Monksfield Watford.

    Ah, for some reason I thought you were in London somewhere. I thought Thornhill might have taken Watford last time but that was before the kicking turned out to be as bad as it was!
    We lived in London for about ten years prior to moving to Watford in 07. I have family in London, and as Watford is only on the outskirts of London I'm down there on a fairly regular basis. When I travelled to work I used to have to go into London as well (now I'm working from home most days due to personal reasons).
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    Well come this time next week we will have witnessed the greatest f##k-up in modern British GE history....just what f##k up will it be....that Kim Jong May has managed to lose against a terrorist sympathizer and his band of marxists or the polling companies need to just shut down.

    As @The_Apocalypse says, we are sucked in to them, despite looking at them on Day 1 of the campaign and dismissing them with a smile. But as the bloke on R5 from the Mirror said today, they are also the only game in town until June 8th.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited June 2017

    Two more Corbyn thoughts:

    1. The attacks on him in this weekend's right wing press are going to be something to behold. More savage than anything we have ever seen before.
    2. The way he has campaigned over the last month proves categorically he had no intetest at all in Remain winning the referendum. He won it for you, Leavers!

    Your second point is very sound.
    Tories need to talk about tax, tax, tax from now until Thursday.
    I don't think project fear will be effective. They need to offer something positive, which has been entirely missing from their prospectus thus far.
    The Tories missed such an easy hit there...£250-300 million extra for the NHS by (insert met by 5 or so years down the line) i.e. it is extra money, but given inflation etc it isn't totally bonkers and unaffordable.

    Brexit Bus issue nullified plus extra cash for the black hole that people want more money for.

    I actually think the Lib Dem policy on this was the most sensible.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    If the polls are wrong then sites such as this have got to stop paying attention to them. It doesn't help that despite pollsters getting it wrong recently, we see have headers and discussion threads centred on xyz poll says this, and treating those polls as having a significant basis in reality.
    You are right, but that isn't what will happen unfortunately. We will just get threads on what the pollsters said in their post fuck up inquiry, with the ones that ones that were sitting on the chair when the music stopped championed as soothsayers
    It's fair to say that there's going to be a plane crash sized enquiry among the polling industry starting this time next week.

    Talking of plane crashes, sell IAG shares, BA have learned nothing from their metaphorical plane crash last weekend, and all the senior management are out to cover their own arses. Shareholder revolt coming.
    Independent Directors at BA are already calling for an independent review but reports say a contractor switched off the mains power by mistake
    Yep, that's about the fourth different story so far and it's clearly as much bollocks as all the previous ones. It would be impossible for any one switch to shut down a data centre - we call that a single point of failure in IT - and if for some magic reason it did then the backup data centre should have taken over.

    That this didn't happen is management failure on an epic scale, I really wouldn't want to be Mr Cruz or Mr Walsh right now. The former hired the latter to oversee cost cutting and outsourcing of most IT functions.
    I think the board is starting to flex its muscles probably followed by the shareholders
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,894

    Well come this time next week we will have witnessed the greatest f##k-up in modern British GE history....just what f##k up will it be....that Kim Jong May has managed to lose against a terrorist sympathizer and his band of marxists or the polling companies need to just shut down.

    On past performance you'd tend to favour the later...
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,894


    If 'landslide' is defined as >100, what's the word for 50-100 - a semi-landslide? I think that's the most likely. Not sure if the odds on it will offer any value, though.



    I personally think any majority above 80 is a "landslide".

    There haven't been that many government majorities above 80...

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Lord Ashcroft predicts Labour will narrowly hold Great Grimsby. They're odds against to do so with the bookies. Seems like a worthwhile bet to me.

    I looked at this one. Anyone know why Melanie Onn didn't stand again?
    She is standing again.
    so she is! I must have clicked wrongly. There is a very big kipper vote to squeeze, I am not sure 11/8 has much value.
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    TravelJunkieTravelJunkie Posts: 431
    Would a flat tax of 25% work for everyone?

    All self-employed people, businesses, individuals pay a flat 25% fee on all income earned.
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