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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The jaws of victory. The Conservatives’ faltering campaign

SystemSystem Posts: 11,687
edited May 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The jaws of victory. The Conservatives’ faltering campaign

The wheels have come off the wagon for Team Theresa.  Just two weeks ago the blue team’s lead looked more fearsome than the north face of the Eiger.  Theresa May looked to be cruising to victory and the saboteurs were on track to be crushed. The stocks were sold; the press was squared: the middle class was quite prepared.  But the middle class were emphatically not prepared for the Tories’ social care policy, which seems to have gone down like rat poison with those voters who are potentially affected by it.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    third?
  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    and first
  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    and second
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    third?

    Diane? Is that you?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    Second like Labour after disqualifications,.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    FPT
    PaulM said:

    Looking forward to a new avatar later... which newspaper might oblige this election?

    Well if the Tory lead is less than 25% with ComRes tonight, I've got a rather awesome headline planned.
    "if"
    I should be getting the embargoed copy about two hours in advance.

    That'll give me some time to come up with a decent headline.
    Are you allowed to bet// change spread positions during the embargo period ?



    The consensus was that it was a bad idea: although there doesn't appear to be a legal regime in place, the pollster won't be happy
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    It would be hilarious if Labour win.
  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    nunu said:

    third?

    Diane? Is that you?
    ha. i guessed wrong!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,711
    nunu said:

    third?

    Diane? Is that you?
    No, its someone who looks like Diane, sounds like Diane, espouses Diane policies - but isn't Diane.....

    On topic. Yes, Mr Meeks, the Tories need to raise their game and sharpish.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    The Tory share has gone from 41-42% before the election was called to 43-44% now (pending tonight's polls).

    I really don't see the problem.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    The Tory share has gone from 41-42% before the election was called to 43-44% now (pending tonight's polls).

    I really don't see the problem.

    The Labour share has gone from ~25% to ~35%.
  • Options
    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    BA cancel all flights before 6pm from Heathrow and Gatwick
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    'Remain campaign which sought to stress stability and being sensible' LOL
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Danny565 said:

    The Tory share has gone from 41-42% before the election was called to 43-44% now (pending tonight's polls).

    I really don't see the problem.

    The Labour share has gone from ~25% to ~35%.
    38% in one poll indicating that not only is Corbyn doing better than Miliband which is what we were discussing last week ... but potentially Corbyn is doing better than Cameron!
  • Options
    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited May 2017
    Sky have already found someone exhibiting the blitz spirit at Heathrow lol
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289

    BA cancel all flights before 6pm from Heathrow and Gatwick

    On late Spring Bank Holiday weekend; there must be chaos at the airports.

    BA still tight lipped as to whether it's a system failure or a cyber attack.
  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    BA cancel all flights before 6pm from Heathrow and Gatwick

    wow! that's embarrassing.
  • Options
    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    IanB2 said:

    BA cancel all flights before 6pm from Heathrow and Gatwick

    On late Spring Bank Holiday weekend; there must be chaos at the airports.

    BA still tight lipped as to whether it's a system failure or a cyber attack.
    Sky reporting chaos and, somewhat distastefully, carnage
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,463
    The Tories have rested on their laurels too much so far in this campaign. I think they thought that Labour would implode and they could just sit back and watch.

    The thing is, with the benefit of hindsight that looked to be a very risky strategy. Labours manifesto was always going to be populist and headline-grabbing. They needed to be able to explain why it was a bad idea to pursue these policies. Instead they've relied on leadership qualities, which I guess is a plus for them but has the disadvantage of being somewhat vacuous when it comes to the crunch.

    What they need to do now in the remaining week and a half is really step it up, go on Brexit, immigration and national security, the three areas where Labour is most vulnerable.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Danny565 said:

    The Tory share has gone from 41-42% before the election was called to 43-44% now (pending tonight's polls).

    I really don't see the problem.

    The Labour share has gone from ~25% to ~35%.
    38% in one poll indicating that not only is Corbyn doing better than Miliband which is what we were discussing last week ... but potentially Corbyn is doing better than Cameron!
    And even his real nemesis, Blair, did in 2005. Not that I think Labour will get 38%, mind.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    The Tory share has gone from 41-42% before the election was called to 43-44% now (pending tonight's polls).

    I really don't see the problem.

    The Labour share has gone from ~25% to ~35%.
    38% in one poll indicating that not only is Corbyn doing better than Miliband which is what we were discussing last week ... but potentially Corbyn is doing better than Cameron!
    And even his real nemesis, Blair, did in 2005. Not that I think Labour will get 38%, mind.
    Neither do I. But then I didn't think we'd leave the EU or Trump would be President, so what do I know?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,711
    Oh dear......

    The Shadow Home Secretary's remarks appeared to contradict Mr Corbyn's assertion yesterday that he had never met with the Republican terrorist group.

    The Labour leader has come under fire for his past association with militant Republicans, including inviting convicted IRA terrorists to the House of Commons just weeks after the Brighton bombing in 1984.

    In an interview on the BBC last night, Mr Corbyn insisted he had "never met the IRA" and had done his best to help negotiate a peaceful solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland.

    But this morning Ms Abbott appeared to contradict that assertion, telling LBC radio: "I think that his understanding is he met with them in their capacity as activists in Sinn Fein."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/jeremy-corbyn-thinks-real-evil-western-intervention-not-isil/
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    The conservative campaign is an embarrassment and it is quite funny watching the disaster unfold. But the fact is that people won't vote for Corbyn in the places that count, and there is no evidence emerging to the contrary. No evidence of a pro corbyn wave in nuneaton, swindon, Thurrock etc.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    FF43 said:

    Second like Labour after disqualifications,.

    Is that after we remove the anti semites?

    Oh sorry, that is councillors
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,463
    nielh said:

    The conservative campaign is an embarrassment and it is quite funny watching the disaster unfold. But the fact is that people won't vote for Corbyn in the places that count, and there is no evidence emerging to the contrary. No evidence of a pro corbyn wave in nuneaton, swindon, Thurrock etc.

    My guess is we're looking at a majority of around 60-80 at the moment. I thought that 90+ was nailed on but the wobble suggests the Tories will fall short of a true landslide. We'll see what tonight's polls say but I agree that it is the likely good performance in the midland marginals that are helping the Tories at the moment.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091



    What they need to do now in the remaining week and a half is really step it up, go on Brexit, immigration and national security, the three areas where Labour is most vulnerable.

    Isn't there a risk that this ends up like the Remain Campaign just rehashing all their old stories about "the economic chaos of Brexit"? Namely that those stories have already been done to death, and there's nothing new to report or to catch the public's attention. Towards the end of the EU referendum, even Remain-supporting media stopped giving big coverage to "another economic expert/study predicts Brexit to be disaster", because they'd already run those stories a cajillion times and they'd got bored of it.

    Where the Tories got lucky in 2015 was that the SNP surge (and the knock-on consequences for parliamentary arithmetic / government) provided the Tories with new material to talk about right up until polling day.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017
    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited May 2017
    Is Corbyn an idiot? Why the f... would you allow yourself to be filmed in a shirt and slacks with shoes trying, badly, to kick a football about with the kids? It just looks pathetic and lame and completely unstatesmanlike. He's not Boris, he can't get away with idiocy.
    He wants to be PM, not uncle Jeremy who is good fun at Christmas.
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,463
    Danny565 said:



    What they need to do now in the remaining week and a half is really step it up, go on Brexit, immigration and national security, the three areas where Labour is most vulnerable.

    Isn't there a risk that this ends up like the Remain Campaign just rehashing all their old stories about "the economic chaos of Brexit"? Namely that those stories have already been done to death, and there's nothing new to report or to catch the public's attention. Towards the end of the EU referendum, even Remain-supporting media stopped giving big coverage to "another economic expert/study predicts Brexit to be disaster", because they'd already run those stories a cajillion times and they'd got bored of it.

    Where the Tories got lucky in 2015 was that the SNP surge (and the knock-on consequences for parliamentary arithmetic / government) provided the Tories with new material to talk about right up until polling day.
    I think it's a bit different, particularly on immigration. It's an emotive issue and Labour are still very weak there. Whereas remain was having to attack from the head rather than the heart, if you will.
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    FPT:

    There seems to be a consensus amongst PBers that this evening's might prove a defining point in the GE campaign.
    Attempting to come up with my own interpretation of what these might tell us, I concluded that a Tory lead of:

    < 3% means a hung Parliament resulting in the probability of Corbyn becoming PM with SNP and LibDem support. May quits.

    4% - 5% means a tiny Tory majority, unlikely to survive a full 5 year term. May clings on as PM. Labour certain to win next time, with or without Corbyn who looks certain to continue as their Leader.

    6% - 7% means an adequate working majority of 40 - 60 seats but May considerably weakened as PM and possibly replaced within 2 - 3 years.

    8% -9% means a 60 - 80 majority but still a disappointing result for the Tories who had hoped for at least a 120 seat majority. Nevertheless calling of GE by May was arguably justified.

    >10% means why all the fuss as regards the polls? And it's Goodnight Vienna as regards Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott, etc.

    Yes, and of these, if it's not between 4 - 8 % , I'll be very surprised.
    I think the size of the majority, assuming she keeps one, is going to be relevant only to the extent it helps or impedes her passing a BrExit settlement. If the Tories get a majority of 40, and having now got the right manifesto get all the legislation through parliament and the lords without too much of a problem, and assuming the end result is more or less acceptable to the party and the bulk of the country, May will be sitting pretty.

    Conversely if she gets a massive majority, completely screws the pooch on BrExit, and we get an end result which infuriates the party and the country, she is still toast. If she has 400 MPs in parliament, it still only takes 60MPs furious with her and her settlement to start the process of replacing her.

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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited May 2017

    Oh dear......

    The Shadow Home Secretary's remarks appeared to contradict Mr Corbyn's assertion yesterday that he had never met with the Republican terrorist group.

    The Labour leader has come under fire for his past association with militant Republicans, including inviting convicted IRA terrorists to the House of Commons just weeks after the Brighton bombing in 1984.

    In an interview on the BBC last night, Mr Corbyn insisted he had "never met the IRA" and had done his best to help negotiate a peaceful solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland.

    But this morning Ms Abbott appeared to contradict that assertion, telling LBC radio: "I think that his understanding is he met with them in their capacity as activists in Sinn Fein."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/jeremy-corbyn-thinks-real-evil-western-intervention-not-isil/

    Astonishing, and in any 'normal' campaign, such revelations and remarks would be fatal for any serious candidate. But, as we all keep saying, this is the era of Trump and Brexit.

    Although I don't recall Trump ever saying he supported the cause of terrorism to achieve peace.

  • Options
    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    FF43 said:

    It would be hilarious if Labour win.

    not for the country
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Danny565 said:

    The Tory share has gone from 41-42% before the election was called to 43-44% now (pending tonight's polls).

    I really don't see the problem.

    The Labour share has gone from ~25% to ~35%.
    Irrelevant, really. If the Tories end up at 43% they will have a comfortable majority whether Labour get 25% or 35%.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    I think the Tories agree with you, but can't sell it electorally.
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    Thorpe_BayThorpe_Bay Posts: 47
    Theresa may lets a suspect, reported by own family & community, travel freely to Libya & Syria & back & then murder. And this site think JC is a risk?

    Look at your own leader before throwing stones.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    edited May 2017
    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    Because it's double/triple taxation effectively, and it also encourages said wealthy elderly homeowners will be minded to gift/spend their wealth earlier in their lives, so the state doesn't get their money upon on their death.
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    Danny565 said:

    The Tory share has gone from 41-42% before the election was called to 43-44% now (pending tonight's polls).

    I really don't see the problem.

    The Labour share has gone from ~25% to ~35%.
    38% in one poll indicating that not only is Corbyn doing better than Miliband which is what we were discussing last week ... but potentially Corbyn is doing better than Cameron!
    What is the odds on a massive polling fiasco to make the Austria Presidential Elections like a byword for reliability ?
  • Options
    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited May 2017

    Theresa may lets a suspect, reported by own family & community, travel freely to Libya & Syria & back & then murder. And this site think JC is a risk?

    Look at your own leader before throwing stones.

    .....but she didn't wave him off at the airport, did she?
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Oh dear......

    The Shadow Home Secretary's remarks appeared to contradict Mr Corbyn's assertion yesterday that he had never met with the Republican terrorist group.

    The Labour leader has come under fire for his past association with militant Republicans, including inviting convicted IRA terrorists to the House of Commons just weeks after the Brighton bombing in 1984.

    In an interview on the BBC last night, Mr Corbyn insisted he had "never met the IRA" and had done his best to help negotiate a peaceful solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland.

    But this morning Ms Abbott appeared to contradict that assertion, telling LBC radio: "I think that his understanding is he met with them in their capacity as activists in Sinn Fein."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/jeremy-corbyn-thinks-real-evil-western-intervention-not-isil/

    Corbyn met Sinn Fein, not the IRA. Old news, however convincing the Venn diagrams. It's a question of hats, as Bernard explained to Jim Hacker.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Danny565 said:



    What they need to do now in the remaining week and a half is really step it up, go on Brexit, immigration and national security, the three areas where Labour is most vulnerable.

    Isn't there a risk that this ends up like the Remain Campaign just rehashing all their old stories about "the economic chaos of Brexit"? Namely that those stories have already been done to death, and there's nothing new to report or to catch the public's attention. Towards the end of the EU referendum, even Remain-supporting media stopped giving big coverage to "another economic expert/study predicts Brexit to be disaster", because they'd already run those stories a cajillion times and they'd got bored of it.
    The difference is that the Remain campaign, in the public mind, was being run by Cameron - who'd spent the last 10 years blaming the EU for everything and saying we would be fine if we left. So when he changed his mind his warnings weren't credible.
  • Options
    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    Oh dear......

    The Shadow Home Secretary's remarks appeared to contradict Mr Corbyn's assertion yesterday that he had never met with the Republican terrorist group.

    The Labour leader has come under fire for his past association with militant Republicans, including inviting convicted IRA terrorists to the House of Commons just weeks after the Brighton bombing in 1984.

    In an interview on the BBC last night, Mr Corbyn insisted he had "never met the IRA" and had done his best to help negotiate a peaceful solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland.

    But this morning Ms Abbott appeared to contradict that assertion, telling LBC radio: "I think that his understanding is he met with them in their capacity as activists in Sinn Fein."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/jeremy-corbyn-thinks-real-evil-western-intervention-not-isil/

    Corbyn met Sinn Fein, not the IRA. Old news, however convincing the Venn diagrams. It's a question of hats, as Bernard explained to Jim Hacker.
    Good luck with that one on the doorsteps!
  • Options
    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    Do you consider that the same rules should apply to Scots who currently pay absolutely nothing towards their social care, irrespective of their personal wealth. Is this fair and equitable?
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    Correct, but the whole drive of the Conservatives​ has been to inflate property value then promise property owners it will be protected. This is a whirlwind they are now preparing to reap after sowing the wind.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    A gold star for Mr Meeks for getting in the phrase "that seminal film There's Something About Mary".

    Outside of porn films, I'm not sure that there are any other literally seminal films.
  • Options
    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Oh dear......

    The Shadow Home Secretary's remarks appeared to contradict Mr Corbyn's assertion yesterday that he had never met with the Republican terrorist group.

    The Labour leader has come under fire for his past association with militant Republicans, including inviting convicted IRA terrorists to the House of Commons just weeks after the Brighton bombing in 1984.

    In an interview on the BBC last night, Mr Corbyn insisted he had "never met the IRA" and had done his best to help negotiate a peaceful solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland.

    But this morning Ms Abbott appeared to contradict that assertion, telling LBC radio: "I think that his understanding is he met with them in their capacity as activists in Sinn Fein."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/jeremy-corbyn-thinks-real-evil-western-intervention-not-isil/

    Corbyn met Sinn Fein, not the IRA. Old news, however convincing the Venn diagrams. It's a question of hats, as Bernard explained to Jim Hacker.
    He never expected to be leader hence always felt safe cosying up to terrorists and willing the defeat of Britain in Ireland. Now he is leader, he has to acknowledge that past and apologise for it. I don't think he'll be getting much DUP support for a rainbow coalition tbf.
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    paulbarkerpaulbarker Posts: 77
    We can never know bit I wonder if May left it too late ? Perhaps she would have done better if The Vote had been on May 4th ?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,711
    kjohnw said:

    FF43 said:

    It would be hilarious if Labour win.

    not for the country
    It would be like a Le Pen victory in France - 5 minutes of hilarity followed by 5 years of pain.....
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995
    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    No the ones without wealth should not be allowed to have lived the high life and expect sensible people who scrimped and saved to fund them. What a pathetic attitude.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,828
    nielh said:

    The conservative campaign is an embarrassment and it is quite funny watching the disaster unfold. But the fact is that people won't vote for Corbyn in the places that count, and there is no evidence emerging to the contrary. No evidence of a pro corbyn wave in nuneaton, swindon, Thurrock etc.

    + This
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Theresa may lets a suspect, reported by own family & community, travel freely to Libya & Syria & back & then murder. And this site think JC is a risk?

    Look at your own leader before throwing stones.

    Ok let's look:-

    TMay has put more money into the security services, Diane Abbott wants them disbanded.

    TMay lost a friend to IRA bombing, John McDonnell congratulated their bombing.

    Corbyn supported the IRA and their aims. TMay does not support terrorists.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995

    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    Do you consider that the same rules should apply to Scots who currently pay absolutely nothing towards their social care, irrespective of their personal wealth. Is this fair and equitable?
    Another absolute thick idiot , what do you think all the taxation and NI is for. They pay by teh bucketload, I pay thousands a month on the off chance I need care I don't expect them to rob me again.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Danny565 said:

    The Tory share has gone from 41-42% before the election was called to 43-44% now (pending tonight's polls).

    I really don't see the problem.

    The Labour share has gone from ~25% to ~35%.
    38% in one poll indicating that not only is Corbyn doing better than Miliband which is what we were discussing last week ... but potentially Corbyn is doing better than Cameron!
    What is the odds on a massive polling fiasco to make the Austria Presidential Elections like a byword for reliability ?
    Sounds like it is quite likely given what we are hearing about how non-voters are breaking but given how high the stakes are I would be more comfortable if we weren't relying upon that.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited May 2017

    Oh dear......

    The Shadow Home Secretary's remarks appeared to contradict Mr Corbyn's assertion yesterday that he had never met with the Republican terrorist group.

    The Labour leader has come under fire for his past association with militant Republicans, including inviting convicted IRA terrorists to the House of Commons just weeks after the Brighton bombing in 1984.

    In an interview on the BBC last night, Mr Corbyn insisted he had "never met the IRA" and had done his best to help negotiate a peaceful solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland.

    But this morning Ms Abbott appeared to contradict that assertion, telling LBC radio: "I think that his understanding is he met with them in their capacity as activists in Sinn Fein."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/jeremy-corbyn-thinks-real-evil-western-intervention-not-isil/

    Corbyn met Sinn Fein, not the IRA. Old news, however convincing the Venn diagrams. It's a question of hats, as Bernard explained to Jim Hacker.
    Good luck with that one on the doorsteps!
    That's rather my point. On the doorstep, who cares? Corbyn's colourful friends in 1980s Irish nationalism are known to every voter who's glanced at a newspaper within the past few weeks and the people who care either weren't going to vote Labour anyway or can fudge it using the SF/IRA distinction or working for peace mantra. Maybe the Russian hackers can come up with something new in the next 10 days or so but time is running out.
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    edited May 2017

    Theresa may lets a suspect, reported by own family & community, travel freely to Libya & Syria & back & then murder. And this site think JC is a risk?

    Look at your own leader before throwing stones.

    Ok let's look:-

    TMay has put more money into the security services, Diane Abbott wants them disbanded.

    TMay lost a friend to IRA bombing, John McDonnell congratulated their bombing.

    Corbyn supported the IRA and their aims. TMay does not support terrorists.

    The oldeest adage in the book "One man's terrorist is one man's freedom fighter"...
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,130

    A gold star for Mr Meeks for getting in the phrase "that seminal film There's Something About Mary".

    Outside of porn films, I'm not sure that there are any other literally seminal films.

    Bit of jizz throwing in Silence of the Lambs.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289

    IanB2 said:

    BA cancel all flights before 6pm from Heathrow and Gatwick

    On late Spring Bank Holiday weekend; there must be chaos at the airports.

    BA still tight lipped as to whether it's a system failure or a cyber attack.
    Sky reporting chaos and, somewhat distastefully, carnage
    They are no saying there is no evidence of cyber attack
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    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited May 2017
    In view of British Airways' drastic action in cancelling all their flights this afternoon, was the Government wrong to reduce the perceived level terror threat so soon?
    It would seem that might just possibly be the case.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    In view of British Airways' drastic action in cancelling all their flights this afternoon, was the Government wrong to reduce the perceived terror threat so soon?
    It would seem that might just possibly be the case.

    The government don't set the alert level,
    BA is nothing to do with security.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    edited May 2017

    A gold star for Mr Meeks for getting in the phrase "that seminal film There's Something About Mary".

    Outside of porn films, I'm not sure that there are any other literally seminal films.

    Bit of jizz throwing in Silence of the Lambs.
    Haven't seen that film in ages.

    Both There's Something About Mary and Dodgeball have had profound impacts on me.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Why all this angst from Tories when Lord Ashcroft polls showing a majority of 142 ?
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    A gold star for Mr Meeks for getting in the phrase "that seminal film There's Something About Mary".

    Outside of porn films, I'm not sure that there are any other literally seminal films.

    Bit of jizz throwing in Silence of the Lambs.
    American Pie
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481

    In view of British Airways' drastic action in cancelling all their flights this afternoon, was the Government wrong to reduce the perceived level terror threat so soon?
    It would seem that might just possibly be the case.

    1) The Government don't set the terrorist threat level

    2) British Airways is nothing to do with the government,

    3) The BA is issue is an IT issue isn't it?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995

    In view of British Airways' drastic action in cancelling all their flights this afternoon, was the Government wrong to reduce the perceived level terror threat so soon?
    It would seem that might just possibly be the case.

    Or not depending on the outcome, running about as scared as a Tory voter is not always the answer. bad guys will be laughing their socks off, a quick Boo and panic ensues.
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    BA cancel all flights before 6pm from Heathrow and Gatwick

    On late Spring Bank Holiday weekend; there must be chaos at the airports.

    BA still tight lipped as to whether it's a system failure or a cyber attack.
    Sky reporting chaos and, somewhat distastefully, carnage
    They are no saying there is no evidence of cyber attack
    https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/868442606543523840
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    edited May 2017
    As Matthew Parris in the Times and Peter the Punter indeed wrote earlier here the "Brexit" election has so far been about anything else except Brexit. Labour though played a clever card in accepting we are leaving the EU albeit preferring a softer route out. It has made it hard for the Tories to make capital or reset the election on to that subject. The LDs in contrast by focussing on a second referendum as their main platform have nuked themselves. We do though need to have a proper debate about the way forward and I sincerely hope that occurs in the next ten days.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    viewcode said:

    nielh said:

    The conservative campaign is an embarrassment and it is quite funny watching the disaster unfold. But the fact is that people won't vote for Corbyn in the places that count, and there is no evidence emerging to the contrary. No evidence of a pro corbyn wave in nuneaton, swindon, Thurrock etc.

    + This
    Not my impression in marginal seats in Greater Nottingham. But DYOR.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995
    Norm said:

    As Matthew Parris in the Times and Peter the Punter indeed wrote earlier here the "Brexit" election has so far been about anything else except Brexit. Labour though played a clever card in accepting we are leaving the EU albeit preferring a softer route out. It has made it hard for the Tories to make capital or refocus the election on to that subject. The LDs in contrast by focussing on a second referendum as their main platform have nuked themselves. We do though need to have a proper debate about the way forward and I sincerely hope that occurs in the next ten days.

    Don't hold your breath, it will be cottonwool all the way
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    murali_s said:

    Theresa may lets a suspect, reported by own family & community, travel freely to Libya & Syria & back & then murder. And this site think JC is a risk?

    Look at your own leader before throwing stones.

    Ok let's look:-

    TMay has put more money into the security services, Diane Abbott wants them disbanded.

    TMay lost a friend to IRA bombing, John McDonnell congratulated their bombing.

    Corbyn supported the IRA and their aims. TMay does not support terrorists.

    The oldeest adage in the book "One man's terrorist is one man's freedom fighter"...
    The "other men" don't really get to vote much in this election.
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    murali_s said:

    Theresa may lets a suspect, reported by own family & community, travel freely to Libya & Syria & back & then murder. And this site think JC is a risk?

    Look at your own leader before throwing stones.

    Ok let's look:-

    TMay has put more money into the security services, Diane Abbott wants them disbanded.

    TMay lost a friend to IRA bombing, John McDonnell congratulated their bombing.

    Corbyn supported the IRA and their aims. TMay does not support terrorists.

    The oldeest adage in the book "One man's terrorist is one man's freedom fighter"...
    Surely the key question then is how many of the 30ish million people that are casting a vote next week will see them as terrorists, and how many as freedom fighters, since most of them will be over 50 I think I have an inkling...

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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,463
    Yorkcity said:

    Why all this angst from Tories when Lord Ashcroft polls showing a majority of 142 ?

    I don't think, if push came to shove, any of us would like to be solely reliant on Lord Ashcroft polls for our forecasting.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    edited May 2017

    A gold star for Mr Meeks for getting in the phrase "that seminal film There's Something About Mary".

    Outside of porn films, I'm not sure that there are any other literally seminal films.

    Bit of jizz throwing in Silence of the Lambs.
    Haven't seen that film in ages.

    Both There's Something About Mary and Dodgeball have had profound impacts on me.
    In the case of Dogeball, I'm guessing it's the wrench that had the impact?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,931
    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    Why should people w dementia have to pay for healthcare at all is my question
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    malcolmg said:

    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    Do you consider that the same rules should apply to Scots who currently pay absolutely nothing towards their social care, irrespective of their personal wealth. Is this fair and equitable?
    Another absolute thick idiot , what do you think all the taxation and NI is for. They pay by teh bucketload, I pay thousands a month on the off chance I need care I don't expect them to rob me again.
    They do not get it I think they prefer to take houses away from people.They will also set up a new industry in valuing the property and selling it as quickly as possible probably in a fire sale to their mates at lower than market value.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481

    A gold star for Mr Meeks for getting in the phrase "that seminal film There's Something About Mary".

    Outside of porn films, I'm not sure that there are any other literally seminal films.

    Bit of jizz throwing in Silence of the Lambs.
    Haven't seen that film in ages.

    Both There's Something About Mary and Dodgeball have had profound impacts on me.
    In the case of Dogeball, I'm guessing it's the wrench that had the impact?
    That and Patches O'Houllihan
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    edited May 2017
    FF43 said:

    It would be hilarious if Labour win.

    ------
    @kjohnw not for the country

    True. Nevertheless Jeremy Corbyn will make a better prime minister of the UK than Donald Trump president of the United States. LOL. A vote for Corbyn is almost certainly a less damaging outcome for the country than a vote to leave the EU. (I do accept a trade off of damaging outcomes is meaningless)

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,006

    In view of British Airways' drastic action in cancelling all their flights this afternoon, was the Government wrong to reduce the perceived level terror threat so soon?
    It would seem that might just possibly be the case.

    Last night I tried to log onto my BA account, and it said that it would be offline until 3am due to an upgrade. The question is, was that just them hiding a cyber attack. Or did they duck up a systems upgrade.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    viewcode said:

    nielh said:

    The conservative campaign is an embarrassment and it is quite funny watching the disaster unfold. But the fact is that people won't vote for Corbyn in the places that count, and there is no evidence emerging to the contrary. No evidence of a pro corbyn wave in nuneaton, swindon, Thurrock etc.

    + This
    Not my impression in marginal seats in Greater Nottingham. But DYOR.
    History has shown we should look at your canvass reports with a somewhat jaundiced eye, Nick!
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    isamisam Posts: 40,931
    You know what would be really nice? If one of the billionaires in the UK built a load of free hospitals/care homes for the elderly. Aren't there a load of big old country manors that could be put to better use?
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    FF43 said:

    It would be hilarious if Labour win.

    For 5 minutes - then I would be scared shitless for the future of the country in general and my kids in particular.
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    It would be hilarious if Labour win.

    @kjohnw not for the country

    True. Nevertheless Jeremy Corbyn will make a better prime minister of the UK than Donald Trump president of the United States. LOL. A vote for Corbyn is almost certainly a less damaging outcome for the country than a vote to leave the EU. (I do accept a trade off of damaging outcomes is meaningless)

    Labour's policy is soft BrExit, when they find out in a year's time that there is no Soft BrExit, only take-it-or-leave-it BrExit, and that the rest of the EU has had enough of us and doesnt want us back, then things get interesting.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344

    The Tories have rested on their laurels too much so far in this campaign. I think they thought that Labour would implode and they could just sit back and watch.

    The thing is, with the benefit of hindsight that looked to be a very risky strategy. Labours manifesto was always going to be populist and headline-grabbing. They needed to be able to explain why it was a bad idea to pursue these policies. Instead they've relied on leadership qualities, which I guess is a plus for them but has the disadvantage of being somewhat vacuous when it comes to the crunch.

    What they need to do now in the remaining week and a half is really step it up, go on Brexit, immigration and national security, the three areas where Labour is most vulnerable.

    Their problem is that political parties can't easily step up 3 things at once. The media pick one, virtually ignore the others, and when you try to come back to them they say "oh, you said that before" and stick in somewhere on page 7. I think they have a strategic choice of whether to focus on what they'll do (Brexit, immigration) or the alleged defects of Mr Corbyn.

    A practical factor is that the freepost literature will have already been printed and should arrive in a week or so. Presumably the Tory ones are full of "strong and stable" stuff, which they've shut up about for obvious reasons this week. Do they try to revive it in campaigning and hope people forget the social care stuff?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314
    edited May 2017
    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    Yes. But the public won't have it. And then socialists like @bigjohnowls take to the street in defence of pensioners with multi-million pound homes.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,931
    Something About Mary is my all time fav film.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Yorkcity said:

    Why all this angst from Tories when Lord Ashcroft polls showing a majority of 142 ?

    I don't think, if push came to shove, any of us would like to be solely reliant on Lord Ashcroft polls for our forecasting.
    Has Ashcroft polling been largely ignored in this election? What is the time frame under which it operates?

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/

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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    TOPPING said:

    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    Yes. But the public won't have it. And then socialists like @bigjohnowls take to the street in defence of pensioners with multi-million pound homes.
    Or £200k homes.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    malcolmg said:

    In view of British Airways' drastic action in cancelling all their flights this afternoon, was the Government wrong to reduce the perceived level terror threat so soon?
    It would seem that might just possibly be the case.

    Or not depending on the outcome, running about as scared as a Tory voter is not always the answer. bad guys will be laughing their socks off, a quick Boo and panic ensues.
    Massacring a score of teenage girls in England is just a " quick boo " for Braveheart MalcG.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    rcs1000 said:

    In view of British Airways' drastic action in cancelling all their flights this afternoon, was the Government wrong to reduce the perceived level terror threat so soon?
    It would seem that might just possibly be the case.

    Last night I tried to log onto my BA account, and it said that it would be offline until 3am due to an upgrade. The question is, was that just them hiding a cyber attack. Or did they duck up a systems upgrade.
    This is the weekend quite a few banks and other organisations carrying out IT upgrades/maintenance.

    I suspect it is an upgrade gone wrong
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    According to BA, Edinburgh airport is coping because "they have a backup system in operation". Raises an obvious question about Heathrow and Gatwick?
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    isam said:

    You know what would be really nice? If one of the billionaires in the UK built a load of free hospitals/care homes for the elderly. Aren't there a load of big old country manors that could be put to better use?

    a load ?

    The new a new hospital was estimated as around 600m (based on the cost of building the new QE Hospital in Birmingham). So a couple or so might be more realistic.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    isam said:

    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    Why should people w dementia have to pay for healthcare at all is my question
    Because when the NHS was set up it was for treatment only, not palliative/end-of-life care. And as we all know, the NHS is sacred and it is blasphemy to suggest changes.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    And Mike's busy and I'll be covering the polls tonight.

    So I'm expecting a quiet, uneventful night.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    IanB2 said:

    According to BA, Edinburgh airport is coping because "they have a backup system in operation". Raises an obvious question about Heathrow and Gatwick?

    More a question for BA. The other airlines don't have a problem.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995
    edited May 2017

    malcolmg said:

    In view of British Airways' drastic action in cancelling all their flights this afternoon, was the Government wrong to reduce the perceived level terror threat so soon?
    It would seem that might just possibly be the case.

    Or not depending on the outcome, running about as scared as a Tory voter is not always the answer. bad guys will be laughing their socks off, a quick Boo and panic ensues.
    Massacring a score of teenage girls in England is just a " quick boo " for Braveheart MalcG.
    Yawn , mentally unstable stalker makes up more horse manure. If only you could have a cyber attack.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    isam said:

    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    Why should people w dementia have to pay for healthcare at all is my question
    It's social care that they are paying for, which was never part of the NHS.

    If the person has severe health needs as a result of dementia or anything else their care is free (It's called Continuing Health Care).
    The difference between health and social care is often contentious but it hinges on the severity, complexity, frequency etc of the needs
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    TOPPING said:

    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    Yes. But the public won't have it. And then socialists like @bigjohnowls take to the street in defence of pensioners with multi-million pound homes.
    It's been said before but the change in policy will have no effect on pensioners. In fact if implemented it would reduce the effect on pensioners. The people who lose out are those set to inherit from them. Although if you were unlucky enough to have parents whose wealth was tied up in assets other than property then you were losing it anyway. I also think there is a perception issue with how much providing care in the home (which is what the changed policy effects) will actually cost. The real cost is in residential care, and the house is already factored into that.
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited May 2017
    What is the Tories' USP? Strength, stability, and a flavour of Brexit which they can't describe but which will bring strength and stability but mustn't be jeopardised by having a general election, not even a year later? I'm struggling even to define the flavour of Brexit that they are promising. Trust them, because they'll do whatever's best? They're who we need at the helm during times of trouble? Well-managed change? Why call an election then? It doesn't seem to hold together at all. The brand has been punctured.

    Put that against tuition fees, care homes and rent control (just those three are very important to many people, far more so than Brexit and abstract promises), and then there is social housing, rail nationalisation too, and if people ask which party is the party of the NHS, well the colour of the NHS may be blue, but seriously! Labour's USP is social protection.

    There may even be a "shy Labour" vote. The Labour livery looks a bit kitsch, and the Labour leader is softly-spoken - not in a Clint Eastwood way - and he has a neck beard. But social protection...yes, this is what people want. I know he's changed his position on some things, but he still exudes principle. Labour are reminiscent of Better Together during the indyref. They weren't very "in your face" at all, and they had far fewer banners up than the "Yes" campaign. They were perceived not as cool, not as something you wanted to shout your support for, but as right.

    Brexit and immigration aren't important in this election. There would have to be one hell of a Cologne-type story.

    Whingeing on about Corbyn and the IRA in the 1980s looks like weakness. And it has the big problem that if the Tories want to play this on personalities (or character) then their own leader gets looked at too. And her presentation looks superficial - the chunky necklaces, the shoes, the hairstyle - she's "That Bloody Woman", mark 2.

    This could be the first time I place other than a tiny bet on an outcome I actually want. I'm thinking it might be sensible to wait for one or two more polls only.

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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,289
    edited May 2017
    Norm said:

    As Matthew Parris in the Times and Peter the Punter indeed wrote earlier here the "Brexit" election has so far been about anything else except Brexit. Labour though played a clever card in accepting we are leaving the EU albeit preferring a softer route out. It has made it hard for the Tories to make capital or reset the election on to that subject. The LDs in contrast by focussing on a second referendum as their main platform have nuked themselves. We do though need to have a proper debate about the way forward and I sincerely hope that occurs in the next ten days.

    Maybe Con should try to frighten Leave supporters by saying "We won't actually leave under Corbyn" - which could well be true in the sense that a Corbyn Minority Government would be dependent on SNP / LD - neither of whom want to leave.

    Con need a clear simple selling point - Leave supporters thinking only Con will actually leave the EU would be a very powerful one.
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    **increases stock holding in Procter & Gamble**
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    ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658
    Pong said:

    On social care - I'm struggling to understand why there should be a cap at all?

    Elderly homeowners with significant housing wealth should be paying for their care & also subsidising elderly non-homeowners without wealth who need care.

    No?

    I'm one of them (in a small way... it's not a Georgian manor house) and I agree completely. I should be subsidising others. I welcomed May's proposal from the start.
This discussion has been closed.