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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mrs May’s extraordinary ratings honeymoon ended with the manif

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  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Pulpstar said:

    This headline is helpful for Mrs May, it will firm up Tory waverers.

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/868056591324655616

    Ah, I see George Osborne has found his inner Tory once more.
    And

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/868057101700128769
    We they are the reason he has gone from Chancellor of the Exchequer to Chief Sulker at a free local Paper
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Jason said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Corbyn's approach to terrorism - 'a kind of elaborate hand wringing'. Said by a Guardian columnist.
    Corbyn in 1940.

    "Chaps, clearly the War against Nazism isn't working. We've had to evacuate Dunkirk, and France is on the verge of collapse. Let's have a nice chat over tea with Herr Hitler!"
    It was the Conservatives ( Churchill excepted ) who liked to have tea with Herr Hitler and exchange bits of paper with him .
  • FattyBolgerFattyBolger Posts: 299
    dixiedean said:

    FF43 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    The Conservative spin operation is attacking Corbyn on what they wanted him to say rather than what he actually said. I have to admit Corbyn has surprised me. He has managed to sound reasonable in a security speech and at the same come across as sympathetic to the victims, supportive of those that try to keep us safe and determined to boost protection to the extent it can be.
    The whole Conservative campaign seems to have been predicated on what they assumed Corbyn would say.
    James Cleverly on 5 Live was hamstrung by an inability to string together a coherent sentence. However, he managed to say that the Head of MI5 was wrong about security, the Head of the police Federation was wrong about policing, and resorted to burbling about security comes from a strong economy.
    Yes. Astute
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    The Conservative spin operation is attacking Corbyn on what they wanted him to say rather than what he actually said. I have to admit Corbyn has surprised me. He has managed to sound reasonable in a security speech and at the same come across as sympathetic to the victims, supportive of those that try to keep us safe and determined to boost protection to the extent it can be.

    Corbyn just presented a prepared speech (written by someone cleverer than him) and will say anything if he thinks it will get his hands on the levers of power.

    His refusal to take questions shows how weak he really is on these issues.

    Quite. Corbyn is acting like a politician. His speech wasn't hugely different from Theresa May's, in all the respects you mention. A bit more empathy however.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Daesh want to negotiate. See the articles they have published in their magazine Dabiq, attributed to British prisoner John Cantlie.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    Ruth tying herself up in knots on immigration !

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/868045572334374912

    As the economy is shrinking under the SNP and taxes rising she said
    9.3% of 2016 net UK immigrants came to Scotland - per Ruth:

    "for all the people that come to the UK, a very, very small proportion choose to come to Scotland"

    FWIW I think Ruth could quickly unravel like TM during the next couple of weeks and come under increasing scrutiny from the MSM.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854

    dixiedean said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    The Mail and Sun will know they're facing a big test of their influence, now. Expect all the big guns to come out, as with the absolute blizzard of "IRA TRAITOR FAILS TO SING NATIONAL ANTHEM" propaganda pieces at exactly the moment Corbyn won the leadership, to set the tone on him early on.
    People have heard it for 2 years, though. There are diminishing marginal returns on this. How about some positive reasons to vote Conservative?
    Vote for misery, vote for May.

    Nothing positive to look forward under a May government. That is the flaw at the heart of her campaign.
    My struggle is trying to detach her from her new best friends Trump and the Saudis. It's not a good look for a European leader
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    I do admire the Tories here who are calm and resolute under fire. I am wibbly wobbly all over the place because of the developing "situation".
    I am obviously not officer class.
    " Steady the Blues"

    I'm not particularly a Tory, but this election has gone from being boring and uninteresting to very exciting and LOLworthy.

    Before a week or so ago, it was just the case of whether this Labour bigwig or that Labour no-hoper would be losing their seats. Interesting from a betting point of view, but not enough to get me really going.

    Now we're looking at a situation where someone - or many people - are going to have eggs on their faces. Whether it's May for comprehensively losing a commanding leave, or Labour losing heavily after raising expectations, or the pollsters mucking up again, it's undoubtedly much more interesting.
    Agreed. I was endlessly banging on about how DULL it was.

    Not any more.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Jason said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Corbyn's approach to terrorism - 'a kind of elaborate hand wringing'. Said by a Guardian columnist.
    Corbyn in 1940.

    "Chaps, clearly the War against Nazism isn't working. We've had to evacuate Dunkirk, and France is on the verge of collapse. Let's have a nice chat over tea with Herr Hitler!"
    It was the Conservatives ( Churchill excepted ) who liked to have tea with Herr Hitler and exchange bits of paper with him .
    Tread carefully, Mr Senior. Here’s Lloyd George.

    "Germany does not want war. Hitler does not want war. He is a most remarkable personality, one of the greatest I have ever met in the whole of my life, and I have met some very great men.

    Affection is a quite inadequate word to describe the attitude of the German people towards Hitler. It amounts almost to worship. I have never seen anything like it. Some men I met who are not Nazis told me that they did not know what the country would have done without him.”
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Surbition posted -

    The North is back with Labour.



    What is labour's immigration policy ? Serious question for us northern folk who voted brexit to control immigration.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,248
    bobajobPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
    I still say no.
    But he has shown hidden depths. This decision to go big on security suggests he has figured out he needs to feed the media something before it can feed on him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611
    bobajobPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
    Not unless he starts gaining more Tory voters than he is losing which is not happening at the moment, his net gains are coming mainly from the LDs with a bit from UKIP too
  • TMA1TMA1 Posts: 225
    Cyan said:

    Daesh want to negotiate. See the articles they have published in their magazine Dabiq, attributed to British prisoner John Cantlie.

    A man still held hostage and forced to parrot ISIS propaganda or get his head chopped off or fired from a cannon. I'd rather not think about what goes on inside your head.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    Surbition posted -

    The North is back with Labour.



    What is labour's immigration policy ? Serious question for us northern folk who voted brexit to control immigration.

    Open doors. Enjoy life under Corbyn :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611
    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why would Conservative supporters switch to Labour because of the manifesto Social Care policy when Labour would make inheritance tax far worse for them?

    They won’t. They might have a hissy fit like SeanT.
    So why are the polls showing a big move from Conservative to Labour?
    There is a point (I would suggest already reached) at which Labour cannot make further progress without getting Tories to switch to them. And they will be a much harder nut to crack.
    What matters, to both sides, is the extent to which the Lab to LD and LD to Lab switchers live in different seats.
    Yougov showed a small net gain from Labour by the Tories and from the Tories by the LDs and from the LDs by Labour and from UKIP by Labour. The biggest net gain remained from UKIP to Tory
    My point was that we are reaching the point where anti-Tory tactical voting could be key.

    There is no way from the national VI polls to tell ating the Tory
    We know that 400 seats voted Leave and in most of those the UKIP vote pular vote
    I think it is misleading to label a seat as "Leave" or "Remain" if the result was within say 10% of 50/50 which many were.

    There is a large anti-Tory centre-left group which is tactically voting and is not put off by the Corbyn factor. Some might even be beginning to admire him.

    There is also a sizable wealthy centre-right group that is very anti-Brexit.

    And now there is another group. Just About Managing in their 40s or 50s who are relying
    In most Labour Leave marginal seats the UKIP vote alone ould tip the balance to the Tories even if no movement at all from Labour to Tory and yougov shows the Tories still making a small net gain from Labour even if they are making a small net loss to the LDs. The LD vote in Labour Leave seats is too small for Labour to get much benefit from tactical voting. All those middle aged inheritance hopefuls got a big Tory inheritance tax cut last year which McDonnell would reverse and of course care costs will now be capped
    The North is back with Labour.
    Manchester and Liverpool heavily so, Labour Leave seats rather less so
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why would Conservative supporters switch to Labour because of the manifesto Social Care policy when Labour would make inheritance tax far worse for them?

    They won’t. They might have a hissy fit like SeanT.
    So why are the polls showing a big move from Conservative to Labour?
    There is a point (I would suggest already reached) at which Labour cannot make further progress without getting Tories to switch to them. And they will be a much harder nut to crack.
    What matters, to both sides, is the extent to which the Lab to LD and LD to Lab switchers live in different seats.
    Yougov showed a small net gain from Labour by the Tories and from the Tories by the LDs and from the LDs by Labour and from UKIP by Labour. The biggest net gain remained from UKIP to Tory
    My point was that we are reaching the point where anti-Tory tactical voting could be key.

    There is no way from the national VI polls to tell ating the Tory
    We know that 400 seats voted Leave and in most of those the UKIP vote pular vote
    I think it is misleading to label a seat as "Leave" or "Remain" if the result was within say 10% of 50/50 which many were.
    In most Labour Leave marginal seats the UKIP vote alone ould tip the balance to the Tories even if no move
    itance tax cut last year which McDonnell would reverse and of course care costs will now be capped
    But what if a fair bit of the kipper vote seeps back to where it came from?

    The isolationist, welfare state, anti liberal elite Britain of Jezza may well appeal to at least a proportion. After all Farage was very against our middle East interventions too. Not everyone wants a Singapore style Brexit.

    There are multiple incompatible Brexits conceivable:

    https://musealoudblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/29/answer-brexit-paradox-eu/

    importantly, Jezza is fighting on his own terrain. He is not so much anti or pro-Brexit as supremely unbothered by it as an issue. This is not the Brexit election May was looking for.
    He is picking up a few Kippers but most are going to May, she needs to emphasise her border control plans next week
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    blueblue said:

    Surbition posted -

    The North is back with Labour.



    What is labour's immigration policy ? Serious question for us northern folk who voted brexit to control immigration.
    Open doors. Enjoy life under Corbyn :)

    The company he keeps,i really can see him doing a merkel in all refugees/migrants welcome.
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    surbiton said:

    kjohnw said:

    FF43 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    The Conservative spin operation is attacking Corbyn on what they wanted him to say rather than what he actually said. I have to admit Corbyn has surprised me. He has managed to sound reasonable in a security speech and at the same come across as sympathetic to the victims, supportive of those that try to keep us safe and determined to boost protection to the extent it can be.
    Yep , it was a Strong and Stable performance from Corbyn .
    as a Corbynite you obviously disagree with the PLP then
    Mark is a well known Liberal Democrat.
    a Corbyn loving Limping Deadocrat!
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    blueblue said:

    Surbition posted -

    The North is back with Labour.



    What is labour's immigration policy ? Serious question for us northern folk who voted brexit to control immigration.
    Open doors. Enjoy life under Corbyn :)

    You have a one trick pony. People vote for many reasons.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited May 2017

    Jason said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Corbyn's approach to terrorism - 'a kind of elaborate hand wringing'. Said by a Guardian columnist.
    Corbyn in 1940.

    "Chaps, clearly the War against Nazism isn't working. We've had to evacuate Dunkirk, and France is on the verge of collapse. Let's have a nice chat over tea with Herr Hitler!"
    That sounds like Tories of the ilk of the foreign secretary, Lord Halifax.

    Who in Britain spoke of a "war against Nazism" in 1940?

    The Tory government had already done absolutely nothing in 1936-39 to prevent a fascist victory in the war in Spain. Number killed: about 500,000.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Blimey, not seen a 1000+ comments for a while, no doubt finding a bit of shade from the sun.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    kjohnw said:

    surbiton said:

    kjohnw said:

    FF43 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    The Conservative spin operation is attacking Corbyn on what they wanted him to say rather than what he actually said. I have to admit Corbyn has surprised me. He has managed to sound reasonable in a security speech and at the same come across as sympathetic to the victims, supportive of those that try to keep us safe and determined to boost protection to the extent it can be.
    Yep , it was a Strong and Stable performance from Corbyn .
    as a Corbynite you obviously disagree with the PLP then
    Mark is a well known Liberal Democrat.
    a Corbyn loving Limping Deadocrat!
    No,he just hates the tories more ;-)
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,306

    Jason said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Corbyn's approach to terrorism - 'a kind of elaborate hand wringing'. Said by a Guardian columnist.
    Corbyn in 1940.

    "Chaps, clearly the War against Nazism isn't working. We've had to evacuate Dunkirk, and France is on the verge of collapse. Let's have a nice chat over tea with Herr Hitler!"
    It was the Conservatives ( Churchill excepted ) who liked to have tea with Herr Hitler and exchange bits of paper with him .
    Try reading Ian Kershaw's biography of Lord Londonderry - Making Friends With Hitler. Many in the thirties thought that cosying up to Adolf was the right policy. We can see easily now how naive and muddle-headed that was but it was a perfectly respectable strain of thought right up to about 1938 I should say.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611
    calum said:

    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    Ruth tying herself up in knots on immigration !

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/868045572334374912

    As the economy is shrinking under the SNP and taxes rising she said
    9.3% of 2016 net UK immigrants came to Scotland - per Ruth:

    "for all the people that come to the UK, a very, very small proportion choose to come to Scotland"

    FWIW I think Ruth could quickly unravel like TM during the next couple of weeks and come under increasing scrutiny from the MSM.
    Scotland takes a far lower share of migrants than say London and the South East and the Tory vote in Scotland is mainly an anti indyref2 anti Sturgeon vote that will not unravel
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why would Conservative supporters switch to Labour because of the manifesto Social Care policy when Labour would make inheritance tax far worse for them?

    They won’t. They might have a hissy fit like SeanT.
    So why are the polls showing a big move from Conservative to Labour?
    There is a point (I would suggest already reached) at which Labour cannot make further progress without getting Tories to switch to them. And they will be a much harder nut to crack.
    What matters, to both sides, is the extent to which the Lab to LD and LD to Lab switchers live in different seats.
    Yougov showed a small net gain from Labour by the Tories and from the Tories by the LDs and from the LDs by Labour and from UKIP by Labour. The biggest net gain remained from UKIP to Tory
    My point was that we are reaching the point where anti-Tory tactical voting could be key.

    There is no way from the national VI polls to tell ating the Tory
    We know that 400 seats voted Leave and in most of those the UKIP vote pular vote
    I think it is misleading to label a seat as "Leave" or "Remain" if the result was within say 10% of 50/50 which many were.

    There is a large anti-Tory centre-left group which is tactically voting and is not put off by the Corbyn factor. Some might even be beginning to admire him.

    There is also a sizable wealthy centre-right group that is very anti-Brexit.

    And now there is another group. Just About Managing in their 40s or 50s who are relying on eventually inheriting their parents' wealth who are saying WTF!!

    This is shaping up for the perfect storm for the Tories.

    Nevertheless I still expect them to get an overall majority. But it could be another Cameron style over confident misjudgment on Theresa's part.
    In most Labour Leave marginal seats the UKIP vote alone ould tip the balance to the Tories even if no movement at all from Labour to Tory and yougov shows the Tories still making a small net gain from Labour even if they are making a small net loss to the LDs. The LD vote in Labour Leave seats is too small for Labour to get much benefit from tactical voting. All those middle aged inheritance hopefuls got a big Tory inheritance tax cut last year which McDonnell would reverse and of course care costs will now be capped
    The North is back with Labour.
    evidence?
  • TMA1TMA1 Posts: 225
    surbiton said:

    TMA1 said:

    surbiton said:

    You mean the Fallon who went to Syria to congratulate Assad on winning his election with 99% of the votes. That Fallon ?
    He went as part of an all party delegation way back in 2007. They did not congratulate anybody on anything.

    And Corbyn visited Assad in 2009, a visit organised by an anti Israel group and led by that well known anti jew Baroness Tong. I do not know if Corbyn congratulated anybody but when he got back he chose to write, in the Morning Star of course, that the Balfour Declaration was 'infamous' and 'once again the Israeli tail wags the US dog'.

    Corbyn is a regular buyer/ reader of the Morning Star, not just Canary. He said that the Morning Star was ''the most precious and only voice we have in the daily media.''
    https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-751f-Your-support-is-what-makes-this-paper-so-different#.WSgcnGjyvIU
    ''I look forward to working with Ben in promoting socialism''
    https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-d46e-New-editor-hailed-by-leading-lefties#.WSgc0WjyvIU

    'Socialism' BTW is that mechanism whereby lefty governments take money off people who have it and give it away to anybody willing to piss it u the wall.
    Your writing ability is, at best, apologetic and, at worst, downright crass. Just say that he should not have gone there if you are so much against dictator/terrorists.

    As for Corbyn, everyone knows he is a friend of the "terrorists". People like Martin McGuinness, who had lunch with the Queen.
    My writing 'ability' is pointing out the facts not twisting them like you. The point about any such visit is finding facts.
    Corbyn went and invented them.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    elections.newstatesman.com surely wins the prize for the most clueless forecast yet in this election.

    It currently forecasts that the Lib Dems' highest percentage in any seat in Britain will be Brighton Pavilion, where they will take 36% of the vote and win the seat.

    Which would be fine if the Lib Dems were actually standing in Brighton Pavilion. They aren't.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    kjohnw said:

    surbiton said:

    kjohnw said:

    FF43 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    The Conservative spin operation is attacking Corbyn on what they wanted him to say rather than what he actually said. I have to admit Corbyn has surprised me. He has managed to sound reasonable in a security speech and at the same come across as sympathetic to the victims, supportive of those that try to keep us safe and determined to boost protection to the extent it can be.
    Yep , it was a Strong and Stable performance from Corbyn .
    as a Corbynite you obviously disagree with the PLP then
    Mark is a well known Liberal Democrat.
    a Corbyn loving Limping Deadocrat!
    I listened to Corbyn's speech objectively . Seems that you are criticising what you thought he was going to say rather than what he actually said and the way in which he said it .
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    edited May 2017
    Cup FInal tomorrow, Reds vs Blues, Arsenal vs Chelsea. 2 of the best teams in the country

    Electoral Cup Final, also Reds vs Blues, in a couple of weeks

    But this one is more Walsall vs Gillingham.

    Both with doggedly loyal fans, but many neutrals deeply unimpressed, unaware of their "star" players, not convinced either deserve the trophy and would really rather not watch.

    Many people feel the public deserve a better spectacle on such an important national occasion...

    :-/
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Owen Jones making an absolute fool of himself on Sky, fortunately for Corbyn he veered off from Corbyn's beliefs into an incoherent personal STW rant.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    bobajobPB said:

    I do admire the Tories here who are calm and resolute under fire. I am wibbly wobbly all over the place because of the developing "situation".
    I am obviously not officer class.
    " Steady the Blues"

    I'm not particularly a Tory, but this election has gone from being boring and uninteresting to very exciting and LOLworthy.

    Before a week or so ago, it was just the case of whether this Labour bigwig or that Labour no-hoper would be losing their seats. Interesting from a betting point of view, but not enough to get me really going.

    Now we're looking at a situation where someone - or many people - are going to have eggs on their faces. Whether it's May for comprehensively losing a commanding leave, or Labour losing heavily after raising expectations, or the pollsters mucking up again, it's undoubtedly much more interesting.
    Agreed. I was endlessly banging on about how DULL it was.

    Not any more.
    You have Theresa to thank for that. I have seen quite a few posters now. There are some from Labour, some from the Liberal Democrats and some from a new party called Theresa.

    Where are the Conservatives ?
  • TMA1TMA1 Posts: 225
    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    Ruth tying herself up in knots on immigration !

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/868045572334374912

    As the economy is shrinking under the SNP and taxes rising she said
    Oh come on --- you are not seriously suggesting a cybernat is twisting the facts? Surely not!
  • HYUFD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
    Not unless he starts gaining more Tory voters than he is losing which is not happening at the moment, his net gains are coming mainly from the LDs with a bit from UKIP too
    Really? Tories were regularly in the high 40s at one point in the campaign, and are regularly low 40s now. Additionally, they appear (to me) to be losing a lot of the enthusiasm of their support. The over 65s are a pretty rock solid Tory voting block, and I can't see big numbers switching to Corbyn. But, post Dementia Tax, I can see decent numbers finding they have pressing work to do in the garden on 8th June.

    I agree Corbyn won't win. That's not the mood I'm picking up, which is more dead cat bounce combined with quite a canny campaign so far. But if May does indeed fluff it to the extent she gets a majority below 50 when the expectations were 150 or so at one point, then it isn't great for her authority, and her MPs no longer see her coat-tails as a great place to be for the next decade, frankly.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    kjohnw said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why would Conservative supporters switch to Labour because of the manifesto Social Care policy when Labour would make inheritance tax far worse for them?

    They won’t. They might have a hissy fit like SeanT.
    So why are the polls showing a big move from Conservative to Labour?
    >

    .
    Yougov showed a small net gain from Labour by the Tories and from the Tories by the LDs and from the LDs by Labour and from UKIP by Labour. The biggest net gain remained from UKIP to Tory
    My point was that we are reaching the point where anti-Tory tactical voting could be key.

    There is no way from the national VI polls to tell ating the Tory
    We know that 400 seats voted Leave and in most of those the UKIP vote pular vote
    I think it is misleading to label a seat as "Leave" or "Remain" if the result was within say 10% of 50/50 which many were.

    There is a large anti-Tory centre-left group which is tactically voting and is not put off by the Corbyn factor. Some might even be beginning to admire him.

    There is also a sizable wealthy centre-right group that is very anti-Brexit.

    And now there is another group. Just About Managing in their 40s or 50s who are relying on eventually inheriting their parents' wealth who are saying WTF!!

    This is shaping up for the perfect storm for the Tories.

    Nevertheless I still expect them to get an overall majority. But it could be another Cameron style over confident misjudgment on Theresa's part.
    In most Labour Leave marginal seats the UKIP vote alone ould tip the balance to the Tories even if no movement at all from Labour to Tory and yougov shows the Tories still making a small net gain from Labour even if they are making a small net loss to the LDs. The LD vote in Labour Leave seats is too small for Labour to get much benefit from tactical voting. All those middle aged inheritance hopefuls got a big Tory inheritance tax cut last year which McDonnell would reverse and of course care costs will now be capped
    The North is back with Labour.
    evidence?
    Do you not read polls ? Not one. Just check the last 10. You will also see how the region gradually came back home.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    elections.newstatesman.com surely wins the prize for the most clueless forecast yet in this election.

    It currently forecasts that the Lib Dems' highest percentage in any seat in Britain will be Brighton Pavilion, where they will take 36% of the vote and win the seat.

    Which would be fine if the Lib Dems were actually standing in Brighton Pavilion. They aren't.

    There are loads of odd results -- I suspect there is some formatting error in the table, so numbers are being transposed into wrong columns.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017
    HYUFD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
    Not unless he starts gaining more Tory voters than he is losing which is not happening at the moment, his net gains are coming mainly from the LDs with a bit from UKIP too
    He can eat into TM's C2DE vote though.

    If he can persuade half to vote for him - and the other half not to vote for her, he'll get into downing street.

    She's nicking their kids dinner money while obsessing over wealthy peoples inheritances.

    There is no jam for the JAM's.

    She might be able to fix this with some kind of significant new spending commitment.

    It'll cost, though.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611
    TMA1 said:

    HYUFD said:

    calum said:

    Ruth tying herself up in knots on immigration !

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/868045572334374912

    As the economy is shrinking under the SNP and taxes rising she said
    Oh come on --- you are not seriously suggesting a cybernat is twisting the facts? Surely not!
    I could not possibly comment
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    surbiton said:

    blueblue said:

    Surbition posted -

    The North is back with Labour.



    What is labour's immigration policy ? Serious question for us northern folk who voted brexit to control immigration.
    Open doors. Enjoy life under Corbyn :)
    You have a one trick pony. People vote for many reasons.

    You haven't answered my question,what is labours policy on immigration,anyone ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611

    HYUFD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
    Not unless he starts gaining more Tory voters than he is losing which is not happening at the moment, his net gains are coming mainly from the LDs with a bit from UKIP too
    Really? Tories were regularly in the high 40s at one point in the campaign, and are regularly low 40s now. Additionally, they appear (to me) to be losing a lot of the enthusiasm of their support. The over 65s are a pretty rock solid Tory voting block, and I can't see big numbers switching to Corbyn. But, post Dementia Tax, I can see decent numbers finding they have pressing work to do in the garden on 8th June.

    I agree Corbyn won't win. That's not the mood I'm picking up, which is more dead cat bounce combined with quite a canny campaign so far. But if May does indeed fluff it to the extent she gets a majority below 50 when the expectations were 150 or so at one point, then it isn't great for her authority, and her MPs no longer see her coat-tails as a great place to be for the next decade, frankly.
    Compared with 2015 though the Tories are still making small net gains from Labour even if less than at the beginning of the campaign though I agree a 150 or so majority is gone now but having had such a tough manifesto if she does win May has more wriggle room than Cameron's bounty laden manifesto left him in 2015
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,719

    Jason said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Corbyn's approach to terrorism - 'a kind of elaborate hand wringing'. Said by a Guardian columnist.
    Corbyn in 1940.

    "Chaps, clearly the War against Nazism isn't working. We've had to evacuate Dunkirk, and France is on the verge of collapse. Let's have a nice chat over tea with Herr Hitler!"
    It was the Conservatives ( Churchill excepted ) who liked to have tea with Herr Hitler and exchange bits of paper with him .
    You Lefties only wanted a "Second Front" after Hitler invaded the Soviet Union.
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456

    kjohnw said:

    surbiton said:

    kjohnw said:

    FF43 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    The Conservative spin operation is attacking Corbyn on what they wanted him to say rather than what he actually said. I have to admit Corbyn has surprised me. He has managed to sound reasonable in a security speech and at the same come across as sympathetic to the victims, supportive of those that try to keep us safe and determined to boost protection to the extent it can be.
    Yep , it was a Strong and Stable performance from Corbyn .
    as a Corbynite you obviously disagree with the PLP then
    Mark is a well known Liberal Democrat.
    a Corbyn loving Limping Deadocrat!
    I listened to Corbyn's speech objectively . Seems that you are criticising what you thought he was going to say rather than what he actually said and the way in which he said it .
    The Fabian Society used to have a logo of a wolf in sheeps clothing, socialists will happily use deception and lies and populist messaging in order to achieve their real objective, the creation of a socialist state. Corbyn is a communist , and would turn us into Venezuela given the chance.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379

    kjohnw said:

    surbiton said:

    kjohnw said:

    FF43 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    The Conservative spin operation is attacking Corbyn on what they wanted him to say rather than what he actually said. I have to admit Corbyn has surprised me. He has managed to sound reasonable in a security speech and at the same come across as sympathetic to the victims, supportive of those that try to keep us safe and determined to boost protection to the extent it can be.
    Yep , it was a Strong and Stable performance from Corbyn .
    as a Corbynite you obviously disagree with the PLP then
    Mark is a well known Liberal Democrat.
    a Corbyn loving Limping Deadocrat!
    I listened to Corbyn's speech objectively . Seems that you are criticising what you thought he was going to say rather than what he actually said and the way in which he said it .
    Indeed. His speech was not too different from what Farage has said previously.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    HYUFD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
    Not unless he starts gaining more Tory voters than he is losing which is not happening at the moment, his net gains are coming mainly from the LDs with a bit from UKIP too
    Really? Tories were regularly in the high 40s at one point in the campaign, and are regularly low 40s now. Additionally, they appear (to me) to be losing a lot of the enthusiasm of their support. The over 65s are a pretty rock solid Tory voting block, and I can't see big numbers switching to Corbyn. But, post Dementia Tax, I can see decent numbers finding they have pressing work to do in the garden on 8th June.

    I agree Corbyn won't win. That's not the mood I'm picking up, which is more dead cat bounce combined with quite a canny campaign so far. But if May does indeed fluff it to the extent she gets a majority below 50 when the expectations were 150 or so at one point, then it isn't great for her authority, and her MPs no longer see her coat-tails as a great place to be for the next decade, frankly.
    I can't see many Tories not voting if they think Corbyn stands a genuine chance of winning. Agree otherwise. May is appalling, Corbyn worse.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2017
    "BBC - Sir Cliff Richard and South Yorkshire Police have settled a legal fight over reports naming him as suspected sex offender.
    The singer sought damages from the force, and the BBC, over media coverage of a police raid on his home in 2014."

    The BBC will be next no doubt and with a big legal fee to pay.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    surbiton said:

    blueblue said:

    Surbition posted -

    The North is back with Labour.



    What is labour's immigration policy ? Serious question for us northern folk who voted brexit to control immigration.
    Open doors. Enjoy life under Corbyn :)
    You have a one trick pony. People vote for many reasons.
    You haven't answered my question,what is labours policy on immigration,anyone ?

    To encourage emmigration!

    Brexit, but no arbitrary limit on numbers with visas as per the needs of the country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611
    edited May 2017
    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
    Not unless he starts gaining more Tory voters than he is losing which is not happening at the moment, his net gains are coming mainly from the LDs with a bit from UKIP too
    He can eat into TM's C2DE vote though.

    If he can persuade half to vote for him - and the other half not to vote for her, he'll get into downing street.

    She's nicking their kids dinner money while obsessing over wealthy peoples inheritances.

    There is no jam for the JAM's.

    She might be able to fix this with some kind of significant new spending commitment.

    It'll cost, though.

    That is not correct, yougov yesterday gave May a bigger lead with C2DEs than ABC1s post manifesto, it is mainly ABC1 Liberals who have made a net move to Corbyn since 2015, C2DE UKIP voters have gone Tory
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited May 2017
    kjohnw said:

    kjohnw said:

    surbiton said:

    kjohnw said:

    FF43 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    The Conservative spin operation is attacking Corbyn on what they wanted him to say rather than what he actually said. I have to admit Corbyn has surprised me. He has managed to sound reasonable in a security speech and at the same come across as sympathetic to the victims, supportive of those that try to keep us safe and determined to boost protection to the extent it can be.
    Yep , it was a Strong and Stable performance from Corbyn .
    as a Corbynite you obviously disagree with the PLP then
    Mark is a well known Liberal Democrat.
    a Corbyn loving Limping Deadocrat!
    I listened to Corbyn's speech objectively . Seems that you are criticising what you thought he was going to say rather than what he actually said and the way in which he said it .
    The Fabian Society used to have a logo of a wolf in sheeps clothing, socialists will happily use deception and lies and populist messaging in order to achieve their real objective, the creation of a socialist state. Corbyn is a communist , and would turn us into Venezuela given the chance.
    Oh Don't be so pathetic in your arguments . No one will treat them seriously even the many fellow Conservatives on here who will see them as ludicrous .
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,908

    kjohnw said:

    surbiton said:

    kjohnw said:

    FF43 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    The Conservative spin operation is attacking Corbyn on what they wanted him to say rather than what he actually said. I have to admit Corbyn has surprised me. He has managed to sound reasonable in a security speech and at the same come across as sympathetic to the victims, supportive of those that try to keep us safe and determined to boost protection to the extent it can be.
    Yep , it was a Strong and Stable performance from Corbyn .
    as a Corbynite you obviously disagree with the PLP then
    Mark is a well known Liberal Democrat.
    a Corbyn loving Limping Deadocrat!
    I listened to Corbyn's speech objectively . Seems that you are criticising what you thought he was going to say rather than what he actually said and the way in which he said it .
    A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456

    kjohnw said:

    kjohnw said:

    surbiton said:

    kjohnw said:

    FF43 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    The Conservative spin operation is attacking Corbyn on what they wanted him to say rather than what he actually said. I have to admit Corbyn has surprised me. He has managed to sound reasonable in a security speech and at the same come across as sympathetic to the victims, supportive of those that try to keep us safe and determined to boost protection to the extent it can be.
    Yep , it was a Strong and Stable performance from Corbyn .
    as a Corbynite you obviously disagree with the PLP then
    Mark is a well known Liberal Democrat.
    a Corbyn loving Limping Deadocrat!
    I listened to Corbyn's speech objectively . Seems that you are criticising what you thought he was going to say rather than what he actually said and the way in which he said it .
    The Fabian Society used to have a logo of a wolf in sheeps clothing, socialists will happily use deception and lies and populist messaging in order to achieve their real objective, the creation of a socialist state. Corbyn is a communist , and would turn us into Venezuela given the chance.
    Oh Don't be so pathetic in your arguments . No one will treat them seriously even the many fellow Conservatives on here who will see them as ludicrous .
    so when John McDonnell said he was a marxist he was lying?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379

    kjohnw said:

    kjohnw said:

    surbiton said:

    kjohnw said:

    FF43 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    The Conservative spin operation is attacking Corbyn on what they wanted him to say rather than what he actually said. I have to admit Corbyn has surprised me. He has managed to sound reasonable in a security speech and at the same come across as sympathetic to the victims, supportive of those that try to keep us safe and determined to boost protection to the extent it can be.
    Yep , it was a Strong and Stable performance from Corbyn .
    as a Corbynite you obviously disagree with the PLP then
    Mark is a well known Liberal Democrat.
    a Corbyn loving Limping Deadocrat!
    I listened to Corbyn's speech objectively . Seems that you are criticising what you thought he was going to say rather than what he actually said and the way in which he said it .
    The Fabian Society used to have a logo of a wolf in sheeps clothing, socialists will happily use deception and lies and populist messaging in order to achieve their real objective, the creation of a socialist state. Corbyn is a communist , and would turn us into Venezuela given the chance.
    Oh Don't be so pathetic in your arguments . No one will treat them seriously even the many fellow Conservatives on here who will see them as ludicrous .
    Mark Senior is suddenly a lefty...I just fell off the edge of the map!
  • TMA1TMA1 Posts: 225

    Cyan said:

    Pong said:

    Corbyn isn't a very good marxist.

    Corbyn is not any kind of Marxist. From the first page of the Labour manifesto:

    "Labour understands that the creation of wealth is a collective endeavour between workers, entrepreneurs, investors and government. Each contributes and each must share fairly in the rewards."

    That is not what Marxists believe.

    Correct. The caricatures of his and his team's position on domestic economic policy are the least convincing. In other areas, the caricatures are somewhat nearer the truth.
    Corbyn does not know difference between a hedge fund and a private equity firm
    http://www.cityam.com/264929/jeremy-corbyns-bizarre-war-city-hedge-funds-continues

    'We asked the Labour Party to provide evidence of a hedge fund buying a small business before ‘selling its ideas’ and shutting it down, and the only example that came close to the description involved a private equity firm. When pushed as to whether Corbyn knew the difference between hedge funds and private equity, the conversation ended.'

    The point about private equity/venture capital is that they invest in young, emerging companies,but rarely take overall control.

    Corbyn buys the Morning Star because it is the only daily media outlet that supports his views. Personally I think we can safely say Corbyn is a marxist. We can be certain he is ignorant.

  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    surbiton said:

    blueblue said:

    Surbition posted -

    The North is back with Labour.



    What is labour's immigration policy ? Serious question for us northern folk who voted brexit to control immigration.
    Open doors. Enjoy life under Corbyn :)
    You have a one trick pony. People vote for many reasons.
    You haven't answered my question,what is labours policy on immigration,anyone ?
    To encourage emmigration!

    Brexit, but no arbitrary limit on numbers with visas as per the needs of the country.

    That could mean anything.-from thousands to millions.in 5 years.

    Asylum numbers will be seperate to that ?
  • Jason said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Corbyn's approach to terrorism - 'a kind of elaborate hand wringing'. Said by a Guardian columnist.
    Corbyn in 1940.

    "Chaps, clearly the War against Nazism isn't working. We've had to evacuate Dunkirk, and France is on the verge of collapse. Let's have a nice chat over tea with Herr Hitler!"
    It was the Conservatives ( Churchill excepted ) who liked to have tea with Herr Hitler and exchange bits of paper with him .
    You Lefties only wanted a "Second Front" after Hitler invaded the Soviet Union.
    Corbyn in 1940 would not through choice have been at war with Nazi Germany at all. They were allied with the USSR so that made them the good guys. A Spitfire pilot would have been Corbyn's class enemy.

    He would have been cheering on the Luftwaffe.
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    From the New Statesman Consituency polling - Ceredigion is 33% Lib Dems 32% Plaid
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Why did I think of TSE about the subtle 'pun' ruined by sub-editors here...

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/868089341301710848
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,460
    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    It's all very reminiscent of Trump campaigning on saying the Iraq war was a disaster and the US should be friendly towards Russia, while the GOP disowned him in disgust. The Labour party is owning both sides of the argument at the moment.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    I expect that objective observers will see another competent performance by Corbyn tonight v Andrew Neil but we will see .
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2017
    A poll comes out... Runaround NOW!!!

    https://youtu.be/8YUgVZ-5ymg
  • PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712
    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
    Not unless he starts gaining more Tory voters than he is losing which is not happening at the moment, his net gains are coming mainly from the LDs with a bit from UKIP too
    He can eat into TM's C2DE vote though.

    If he can persuade half to vote for him - and the other half not to vote for her, he'll get into downing street.

    She's nicking their kids dinner money while obsessing over wealthy peoples inheritances.

    There is no jam for the JAM's.

    She might be able to fix this with some kind of significant new spending commitment.

    It'll cost, though.

    That is not correct, yougov yesterday gave May a bigger lead with C2DEs than ABC1s post manifesto, it is mainly ABC1 Liberals who have made a net move to Corbyn since 2015, C2DE UKIP voters have gone Tory
    "We love the poorly educated..."

    (N.B. I know poorly educated doesn't always mean C2DE)
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    I expect that objective observers will see another competent performance by Corbyn tonight v Andrew Neil but we will see .
    I think you could be right.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,458

    Why did I think of TSE about the subtle 'pun' ruined by sub-editors here...

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/868089341301710848

    It is disgraceful when people put a blatant sexual innuendo at the end of their pieces. You wouldn't catch me doing that.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/05/07/is-theresa-may-planning-on-toppling-tim-farron/
  • midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
    Not unless he starts gaining more Tory voters than he is losing which is not happening at the moment, his net gains are coming mainly from the LDs with a bit from UKIP too
    Really? Tories were regularly in the high 40s at one point in the campaign, and are regularly low 40s now. Additionally, they appear (to me) to be losing a lot of the enthusiasm of their support. The over 65s are a pretty rock solid Tory voting block, and I can't see big numbers switching to Corbyn. But, post Dementia Tax, I can see decent numbers finding they have pressing work to do in the garden on 8th June.

    I agree Corbyn won't win. That's not the mood I'm picking up, which is more dead cat bounce combined with quite a canny campaign so far. But if May does indeed fluff it to the extent she gets a majority below 50 when the expectations were 150 or so at one point, then it isn't great for her authority, and her MPs no longer see her coat-tails as a great place to be for the next decade, frankly.
    I can't see many Tories not voting if they think Corbyn stands a genuine chance of winning. Agree otherwise. May is appalling, Corbyn worse.
    There's a fairly strong chance, come polling day, that they won't think Corbyn has a genuine chance of winning. Indeed, outside the bubble of this sort of site, I don't think the Corbyn winning narrative has much traction.

    It therefore stands a good chance of being a bit like 2005 (with the parties reversed), when the outcome in terms of winner was never really in doubt (Labour consistently had high single figure, even low double figure leads) but Labour supporters weren't hugely enthused and Labour won more narrowly (in vote share, though not particularly seats) than most thought.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    TMA1 said:

    Cyan said:

    Pong said:

    Corbyn isn't a very good marxist.

    Corbyn is not any kind of Marxist. From the first page of the Labour manifesto:

    "Labour understands that the creation of wealth is a collective endeavour between workers, entrepreneurs, investors and government. Each contributes and each must share fairly in the rewards."

    That is not what Marxists believe.

    Correct. The caricatures of his and his team's position on domestic economic policy are the least convincing. In other areas, the caricatures are somewhat nearer the truth.
    Corbyn does not know difference between a hedge fund and a private equity firm
    http://www.cityam.com/264929/jeremy-corbyns-bizarre-war-city-hedge-funds-continues

    'We asked the Labour Party to provide evidence of a hedge fund buying a small business before ‘selling its ideas’ and shutting it down, and the only example that came close to the description involved a private equity firm. When pushed as to whether Corbyn knew the difference between hedge funds and private equity, the conversation ended.'

    The point about private equity/venture capital is that they invest in young, emerging companies,but rarely take overall control.

    Corbyn buys the Morning Star because it is the only daily media outlet that supports his views. Personally I think we can safely say Corbyn is a marxist. We can be certain he is ignorant.

    It must have been a great shock for KKR to find out that Boots was a young, emerging company. I guess we'll have to classify that period between 1849 and the 2012-14 buyout transactions as "startup phase".
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,117

    Jason said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Corbyn's approach to terrorism - 'a kind of elaborate hand wringing'. Said by a Guardian columnist.
    Corbyn in 1940.

    "Chaps, clearly the War against Nazism isn't working. We've had to evacuate Dunkirk, and France is on the verge of collapse. Let's have a nice chat over tea with Herr Hitler!"
    It was the Conservatives ( Churchill excepted ) who liked to have tea with Herr Hitler and exchange bits of paper with him .
    You Lefties only wanted a "Second Front" after Hitler invaded the Soviet Union.
    Corbyn in 1940 would not through choice have been at war with Nazi Germany at all. They were allied with the USSR so that made them the good guys. A Spitfire pilot would have been Corbyn's class enemy.

    He would have been cheering on the Luftwaffe.
    Seems highly unlikely. Corbyn's spiritual forefathers, such as Michael Foot, were actually preparing for a kind of communist "British partisans" domestic resistance against the Nazis, while elements in Mi5 at the time (1939-40 ), linked to the Halifax faction, were actually preparing for coilaboration.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,117

    Jason said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Corbyn's approach to terrorism - 'a kind of elaborate hand wringing'. Said by a Guardian columnist.
    Corbyn in 1940.

    "Chaps, clearly the War against Nazism isn't working. We've had to evacuate Dunkirk, and France is on the verge of collapse. Let's have a nice chat over tea with Herr Hitler!"
    It was the Conservatives ( Churchill excepted ) who liked to have tea with Herr Hitler and exchange bits of paper with him .
    You Lefties only wanted a "Second Front" after Hitler invaded the Soviet Union.
    Corbyn in 1940 would not through choice have been at war with Nazi Germany at all. They were allied with the USSR so that made them the good guys. A Spitfire pilot would have been Corbyn's class enemy.

    He would have been cheering on the Luftwaffe.
    Seems highly unlikely. Corbyn's spiritual forefathers, such as Michael Foot, were actually preparing for a kind of communist "British partisans" domestic resistance against the Nazis, while elements in Mi5 at the time (1939-40 ), linked to the Halifax faction, were actually preparing for coilaboration.
    or even collaboration !
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    No ideas for a new thread?

    1100 odd comments on this one...
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    I expect that objective observers will see another competent performance by Corbyn tonight v Andrew Neil but we will see .
    I understand why you have morphed into a Corbynista right before our very eyes. Your leader, the absurd Fishfinger (great name for a future Bond movie), is even worse than Corbyn.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179

    dixiedean said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    The Mail and Sun will know they're facing a big test of their influence, now. Expect all the big guns to come out, as with the absolute blizzard of "IRA TRAITOR FAILS TO SING NATIONAL ANTHEM" propaganda pieces at exactly the moment Corbyn won the leadership, to set the tone on him early on.
    People have heard it for 2 years, though. There are diminishing marginal returns on this. How about some positive reasons to vote Conservative?
    Vote for misery, vote for May.

    Nothing positive to look forward under a May government. That is the flaw at the heart of her campaign.
    Yes, and I think it will result in a limited press-aided win. All the ramifications of that for Brexit, as only a few people have mentioned here so far, might actually be the most relevant - and also might be one unexamined dynamic for the collection of support around Corbyn.

    Small majority, dent to an overconfident tory campaign , and the more hubristic ultra-Brexiteer Tories, might be subtly linked to a softer, more manageable, less reckless Brexit, in quite a few voters' minds.
    At no stage since June 24th 2016 have I been convinced Brexit will ever happen.

    I remain of that view. These horror polls make it all the more likely we'll never leave in any meaningful sense of the word.
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    Sadly, I don't think the public especially cares. There has been movement TOWARDS Labour after the Manc attack.

    That says it all. It's still that fucking manifesto, and Labour's lunatic promises, which are doing the job.

    The Tories need to come up with one single brilliant idea. A giveaway. Fuck it. They have to, or we will end up governed by Pol Pot, Chairwoman Mao and a demented dustman in a vest.
    dont think much of the public will be watching tonight - many will be out in their gardens BBQ poss and of course travelling for the Bank Holiday /Half term holiday
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
    Not unless he starts gaining more Tory voters than he is losing which is not happening at the moment, his net gains are coming mainly from the LDs with a bit from UKIP too
    He can eat into TM's C2DE vote though.

    If he can persuade half to vote for him - and the other half not to vote for her, he'll get into downing street.

    She's nicking their kids dinner money while obsessing over wealthy peoples inheritances.

    There is no jam for the JAM's.

    She might be able to fix this with some kind of significant new spending commitment.

    It'll cost, though.

    That is not correct, yougov yesterday gave May a bigger lead with C2DEs than ABC1s post manifesto, it is mainly ABC1 Liberals who have made a net move to Corbyn since 2015, C2DE UKIP voters have gone Tory
    "We love the poorly educated..."

    (N.B. I know poorly educated doesn't always mean C2DE)
    Indeed though Tories still lead with ABC1s just not as much as with C2DEs
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    Jezza will argue his corner well.

    The smell of brown trousers from the Tories is very telling. Is this all that you've got?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    But what he said is essentially correct whatever you might think of the inappropriateness of the timing.

    If you need evidence that the majority of the British electorate agree that our adventurism in the Middle East is in large part responsible for stirring up the hornets nest look at the success of Charlie Kennedy whose only memorable action was condemning Iraq.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.


    We can only hope. The Tories and their media need to go MASSIVE on this, right now. No politeness, no 'decency', no quarter.

    Literally posters of Corbyn on one side, the Manchester attacker on the other, and 'DON'T LET HIM WIN' underneath. Nasty, but effective.
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    Sadly, I don't think the public especially cares. There has been movement TOWARDS Labour after the Manc attack.

    That says it all. It's still that fucking manifesto, and Labour's lunatic promises, which are doing the job.

    The Tories need to come up with one single brilliant idea. A giveaway. Fuck it. They have to, or we will end up governed by Pol Pot, Chairwoman Mao and a demented dustman in a vest.
    The problem is on a hot sunny Bank Holiday weekend , on a Friday night, how many realistically will be watching Jeremy Corbyn being interviewed by Andrew Neil? I suspect most will be out in the garden enjoying the weather. The only way the public will become aware of the interview is if Neil absolutely rattles Corbyn and gets him to meltdown and squirm on live TV. I wouldn't pin my hopes on that, the Tories have to go all out against Corbyn every day now until polling day, He IS the problem for Labour and the focus needs to be on his dodgy past and views, it has to get dirty now, no more niceties .
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,146
    Roger said:

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    But what he said is essentially correct whatever you might think of the inappropriateness of the timing.

    If you need evidence that the majority of the British electorate agree that our adventurism in the Middle East is in large part responsible for stirring up the hornets nest look at the success of Charlie Kennedy whose only memorable action was condemning Iraq.
    France opposed the Iraq War....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379
    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    Sadly, I don't think the public especially cares. There has been movement TOWARDS Labour after the Manc attack.

    That says it all. It's still that fucking manifesto, and Labour's lunatic promises, which are doing the job.

    The Tories need to come up with one single brilliant idea. A giveaway. Fuck it. They have to, or we will end up governed by Pol Pot, Chairwoman Mao and a demented dustman in a vest.
    They have not put forward a single POSITIVE reason to vote Conservative. There must be one somewhere in their manifesto, but it seems they cannot find it.

    It really does seem that May decided on this election on a walking holiday in Wales. At the time I assumed there was some cunning well-hidden strategy which had been thought through and focus grouped to hell.

    Apparently, there wasn't. It was look Jeremy Corbyn.

    Still gonna win though. 100+
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Jason said:

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    I expect that objective observers will see another competent performance by Corbyn tonight v Andrew Neil but we will see .
    I understand why you have morphed into a Corbynista right before our very eyes. Your leader, the absurd Fishfinger (great name for a future Bond movie), is even worse than Corbyn.
    But either would be better than Mrs Weak and Wobbly .
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,575
    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    Andrew Neil would have questioned Corbyn about his past associations anyway, speech or no speech. Corbyn is well prepared and rehearsed on the subject. I'm sure you're right about the Sun, Mail and Express but they're preaching to their own.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Yesterday I thought this was a big mistake from Corbyn.
    Now I'm not so certain. Everything the Mail is saying they probably would have said anyway.
    At least he's got out in front of it and had a crack at getting a few soundbites in.
    Corbyn surely couldn't win this thing. Could he?
    Not unless he starts gaining more Tory voters than he is losing which is not happening at the moment, his net gains are coming mainly from the LDs with a bit from UKIP too
    He can eat into TM's C2DE vote though.

    If he can persuade half to vote for him - and the other half not to vote for her, he'll get into downing street.

    She's nicking their kids dinner money while obsessing over wealthy peoples inheritances.

    There is no jam for the JAM's.

    She might be able to fix this with some kind of significant new spending commitment.

    It'll cost, though.

    That is not correct, yougov yesterday gave May a bigger lead with C2DEs than ABC1s post manifesto, it is mainly ABC1 Liberals who have made a net move to Corbyn since 2015, C2DE UKIP voters have gone Tory
    Let's not forget the huge electoral BIAS against Labour, now in play, due to differentials and Scotland.


    A result like

    Con: 39:
    Lab: 41
    LD: 8
    UKIP: 3
    Green: 3

    when Baxtered, on UNS, makes Tories the largest party by 59 seats, too much for a LAB-SNP Coalition to work even if they wanted. It would probably be a very very unstable Coalition of Tories, LDs and DUP. And another election in a year. Fuck knows what that would do to Brexit.

    Corbyn has to get 42 or above to start thinking about winning, and 43 or 44 to start thinking about an overall majority.

    Exactly, at the moment Corbyn will win huge majorities in inner London, Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, Hull etc but May will win narrow victories in Labour marginals in the north and Midlands so the Tories will get more seats per vote than Labour
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited May 2017

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    Jezza will argue his corner well.

    The smell of brown trousers from the Tories is very telling. Is this all that you've got?
    There may well be a smell of brown trousers, yes. And it's easy to understand why. JEREMY CORBYN could be our PM, JOHN MCDONNELL could be our Chancellor, and DIANE ABBOTT could be our Home Secretary.

    Of course I'm fucking worried!!!
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    TMA1 said:

    Cyan said:

    Pong said:

    Corbyn isn't a very good marxist.

    Corbyn is not any kind of Marxist. From the first page of the Labour manifesto:

    "Labour understands that the creation of wealth is a collective endeavour between workers, entrepreneurs, investors and government. Each contributes and each must share fairly in the rewards."

    That is not what Marxists believe.

    Correct. The caricatures of his and his team's position on domestic economic policy are the least convincing. In other areas, the caricatures are somewhat nearer the truth.
    Corbyn does not know difference between a hedge fund and a private equity firm
    http://www.cityam.com/264929/jeremy-corbyns-bizarre-war-city-hedge-funds-continues

    'We asked the Labour Party to provide evidence of a hedge fund buying a small business before ‘selling its ideas’ and shutting it down, and the only example that came close to the description involved a private equity firm. When pushed as to whether Corbyn knew the difference between hedge funds and private equity, the conversation ended.'

    The point about private equity/venture capital is that they invest in young, emerging companies,but rarely take overall control.

    Corbyn buys the Morning Star because it is the only daily media outlet that supports his views. Personally I think we can safely say Corbyn is a marxist. We can be certain he is ignorant.

    That's shored up the hedge fund vote for the blue team: Mayfair for May.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,575
    Jason said:

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    I expect that objective observers will see another competent performance by Corbyn tonight v Andrew Neil but we will see .
    I understand why you have morphed into a Corbynista right before our very eyes. Your leader, the absurd Fishfinger (great name for a future Bond movie), is even worse than Corbyn.
    Jason. You're frothing.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    blueblue said:

    Surbition posted -

    The North is back with Labour.



    What is labour's immigration policy ? Serious question for us northern folk who voted brexit to control immigration.
    Open doors. Enjoy life under Corbyn :)
    The company he keeps,i really can see him doing a merkel in all refugees/migrants welcome.

    You can count on it 100% - his base is pure Merkel 2015 on this, and so is he. Labour voters need to have a really hard think about the consequences of a Corbyn win.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kjohnw said:

    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    Sadly, I don't think the public especially cares. There has been movement TOWARDS Labour after the Manc attack.

    That says it all. It's still that fucking manifesto, and Labour's lunatic promises, which are doing the job.

    The Tories need to come up with one single brilliant idea. A giveaway. Fuck it. They have to, or we will end up governed by Pol Pot, Chairwoman Mao and a demented dustman in a vest.
    The problem is on a hot sunny Bank Holiday weekend , on a Friday night, how many realistically will be watching Jeremy Corbyn being interviewed by Andrew Neil? I suspect most will be out in the garden enjoying the weather. The only way the public will become aware of the interview is if Neil absolutely rattles Corbyn and gets him to meltdown and squirm on live TV. I wouldn't pin my hopes on that, the Tories have to go all out against Corbyn every day now until polling day, He IS the problem for Labour and the focus needs to be on his dodgy past and views, it has to get dirty now, no more niceties .
    The more the concentration on Corbyn, the more the Labour lead increases.

    Corbyn combines English eccentricity and phlegmatism in a way that Britons actually like. Concentrating on him, while producing no positive reason to vote Tory has been the problem, not the solution.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    blueblue said:

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.


    We can only hope. The Tories and their media need to go MASSIVE on this, right now. No politeness, no 'decency', no quarter.

    Literally posters of Corbyn on one side, the Manchester attacker on the other, and 'DON'T LET HIM WIN' underneath. Nasty, but effective.
    Nasty Yes and it will be totally counter productive . Simply shows the Conservatives as a Party with no positive reason(s) to vote for them .
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379
    kjohnw said:

    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    Sadly, I don't think the public especially cares. There has been movement TOWARDS Labour after the Manc attack.

    That says it all. It's still that fucking manifesto, and Labour's lunatic promises, which are doing the job.

    The Tories need to come up with one single brilliant idea. A giveaway. Fuck it. They have to, or we will end up governed by Pol Pot, Chairwoman Mao and a demented dustman in a vest.
    The problem is on a hot sunny Bank Holiday weekend , on a Friday night, how many realistically will be watching Jeremy Corbyn being interviewed by Andrew Neil? I suspect most will be out in the garden enjoying the weather. The only way the public will become aware of the interview is if Neil absolutely rattles Corbyn and gets him to meltdown and squirm on live TV. I wouldn't pin my hopes on that, the Tories have to go all out against Corbyn every day now until polling day, He IS the problem for Labour and the focus needs to be on his dodgy past and views, it has to get dirty now, no more niceties .
    Forgive me. Must have missed the Sun, Mail and Express niceties with JC.
  • PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712

    TMA1 said:

    Cyan said:

    Pong said:

    Corbyn isn't a very good marxist.

    Corbyn is not any kind of Marxist. From the first page of the Labour manifesto:

    "Labour understands that the creation of wealth is a collective endeavour between workers, entrepreneurs, investors and government. Each contributes and each must share fairly in the rewards."

    That is not what Marxists believe.

    Correct. The caricatures of his and his team's position on domestic economic policy are the least convincing. In other areas, the caricatures are somewhat nearer the truth.
    Corbyn does not know difference between a hedge fund and a private equity firm
    http://www.cityam.com/264929/jeremy-corbyns-bizarre-war-city-hedge-funds-continues

    'We asked the Labour Party to provide evidence of a hedge fund buying a small business before ‘selling its ideas’ and shutting it down, and the only example that came close to the description involved a private equity firm. When pushed as to whether Corbyn knew the difference between hedge funds and private equity, the conversation ended.'

    The point about private equity/venture capital is that they invest in young, emerging companies,but rarely take overall control.

    Corbyn buys the Morning Star because it is the only daily media outlet that supports his views. Personally I think we can safely say Corbyn is a marxist. We can be certain he is ignorant.

    That's shored up the hedge fund vote for the blue team: Mayfair for May.
    If not for fair...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486
    What Corbyn should have said today?
    https://twitter.com/twlldun/status/868044683792003078
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Small majority, dent to an overconfident tory campaign , and the more hubristic ultra-Brexiteer Tories, might be subtly linked to a softer, more manageable, less reckless Brexit, in quite a few voters' minds.

    A few weeks back there were posters arguing that a landslide majority would mean a soft Brexit. It seems like everything leads to a soft Brexit - except for what May actually says and does on the issue (no single market, no customs union, immigration controls a priority and no ECJ oversight, the three Brexiteers in charge of the key ministeries).

    It's more believable that a diminished May, forced to ditch the NI increase in the budget, forced to u-turn on a manifesto pledge during the election campaign, etc, will be seen as an easy target for determined Brexiteers on the Conservative backbenchers.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT having a meltdown. Must be Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    It's more believable that a diminished May, forced to ditch the NI increase in the budget, forced to u-turn on a manifesto pledge during the election campaign, etc, will be seen as an easy target for determined Brexiteers on the Conservative backbenchers.

    And the negotiators in Brussels.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    blueblue said:

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.


    We can only hope. The Tories and their media need to go MASSIVE on this, right now. No politeness, no 'decency', no quarter.

    Literally posters of Corbyn on one side, the Manchester attacker on the other, and 'DON'T LET HIM WIN' underneath. Nasty, but effective.
    Nasty Yes and it will be totally counter productive . Simply shows the Conservatives as a Party with no positive reason(s) to vote for them .
    We're 12 days out - people are as positive about the Tories as they're ever going to be in this campaign. What we can do in those 12 days is to make a vote for Jeremy synonymous with letting the terrorists win. And that will stop his ratings rise reaching dangerous levels.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,603
    Sandpit said:
    It's Donald Trump.

    No Trump, No US Apprentice TV Series.
    No US Apprentice, No UK Apprentice.
    No UK Apprentice, No Katie Hopkins.

    Whoever first commissioned the US Apprentice has a lot to answer for.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,306

    Jason said:

    Corbyn has gone down well with the Mail headline writers:

    "Making excuses for terrorism: Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to exploit Manchester bombing by blaming British Middle East military adventures"

    Corbyn's approach to terrorism - 'a kind of elaborate hand wringing'. Said by a Guardian columnist.
    Corbyn in 1940.

    "Chaps, clearly the War against Nazism isn't working. We've had to evacuate Dunkirk, and France is on the verge of collapse. Let's have a nice chat over tea with Herr Hitler!"
    It was the Conservatives ( Churchill excepted ) who liked to have tea with Herr Hitler and exchange bits of paper with him .
    You Lefties only wanted a "Second Front" after Hitler invaded the Soviet Union.
    Corbyn in 1940 would not through choice have been at war with Nazi Germany at all. They were allied with the USSR so that made them the good guys. A Spitfire pilot would have been Corbyn's class enemy.

    He would have been cheering on the Luftwaffe.
    Seems highly unlikely. Corbyn's spiritual forefathers, such as Michael Foot, were actually preparing for a kind of communist "British partisans" domestic resistance against the Nazis, while elements in Mi5 at the time (1939-40 ), linked to the Halifax faction, were actually preparing for coilaboration.
    or even collaboration !
    And of course the book Guilty Men, published in 1940 by Foot et al, absolutely trashed the pre-war conservative administrations and destroyed many reputations, notably Baldwin's.

    Appeasement became a dirty word after that, if it wasn't beforehand.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Jason said:

    Could Andrew Neil be the saviour the Tories are looking for tonight?

    It's one of the major reasons why I believe Corbyn has made a huge strategic error with his speech today.

    In the wake of the Islamist attack in Manchester, his speech has legitimised confronting him over his past associations and sympathies. He has now invited that upon himself.

    None of his apologists (and it seems there are quite a few on this very site) can now accuse anyone of playing politics with terror - because he has done so himself. He can't wriggle his way out of a line of questioning now that he perhaps possibly could have before today.

    Expect every single utterance he makes to be printed ad nauseum in the Mail, the Sun, and the Express.

    Unless, of course, the public want terrorist appeasement as UK foregin policy.

    Jezza will argue his corner well.

    The smell of brown trousers from the Tories is very telling. Is this all that you've got?
    I'm not for any party,i haven't decided yet but i voted brexit to control our borders and I will not be voting for a party that will ignore my vote to make things worst.

    What is labours policy on brexit,free trade agreement we know but to what price will we pay with a remain labour party backing - open borders or a retreat of staying in ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486
    Bloody hell, Rex Tillerson put on a plane to London to apologise to Boris in person for intelligence leaks to US media.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/us-secretary-state-rex-tillerson-makes-snap-visit-uk-amid-anger/
This discussion has been closed.