With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
If there is no one in Daesh to negotiate with, how can the solution be talking?
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
Terrible thing to happen, all those poor parents and family members impacted by this.
There will be an impact on the election I think. Talking with my daughters late 20 year old friend the other day, for him and his friends, the IRA were old history, something he was taught about in school. Therefore Corbyn and McDonnell's IRA support was meaningless.
Given the last time Manchester was bombed was the IRA attacking the Armadale Centre in 1996 ithis event might just make him and others of his generation understand how disgraceful Corbyn and McDonnell were and are to support another terrorist organisation.
Stop the War is what will do for Corbyn on this. When you spend decades cosying up to people who wish Britain harm you end up with a lot of baggage.
StW arose from opposition to the Iraq conflict, supported by Labour and Tory alike? The consequences of that war are at best arguable, but I don't feel like arguing it now.
Unbearable to think of other parents looking for their children and not getting a good answer.
I'm afraid this is the new normal. Western society is simply not equipped to deal with ideological threats. We can knock the shit out of any state actor, armies we can defeat - but how do you kill a meme? How do you unwarp warped minds? This is going to be a long slow haul.
Between this attack, and others of a similar nature such as the stade de france bomb in 2015, or even the Brussels airport attack, it seems terrorists have learnt to target the more vulnerable exteriors rather than trying to get inside past security. Hard to control against this. Perhaps the grounds around stadiums/airports/public arenas needs to also be cordoned off with security controls, before you can even approach the main building.
That's what they have in Ben Gurion : checkpoints a good half mile from the terminal building
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
Suspect there will be a speech from May later this morning? Wouldn't be surprised if Corbyn also made a statement.
Katie Hopkins calls for " a final solution " in response to Manchester.
Katie Hopkins is a troll. Unfortunately, she has a modicum of intelligence and will know the connotations of using such phrases. But her modus operandi is to be gratuitously offensive. Best to ignore.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
Ridiculous. Mrs May is going to be tied up with COBRA security meetings.
I remember hearing of the IRA Harrods Christmas shopping bomb in 1983 thinking 'tut-tut - how dreadful'. Then the names of the victims came out and I thought - that's odd, I know someone with that name and that age, what a coincidence! It was only later that the penny dropped that it was a university friend (and fellow Edmund Burke President of the PM) who had died. Only child of immigrant parents who he had made inordinately proud by getting into Oxford - devastated them. There will be many stories like that today.
The Catholic community in Northern Ireland had genuine grievances. Had those been addressed from the start it is quite possible that the terrorist campaign would not have started or lasted as long as it did.
Daesh want an Islamic caliphate anywhere where there has been Islam. They want sharia law to rule and they want and believe that Islam should take over the world. They have a very particular view of what Islam should be and how they should copy Mohammed's example. See the recent Tom Holland documentary on Channel 4 - "ISIS - The Roots of Violence". There is no bargaining with such people. Just their complete defeat: militarily and ideologically.
Absolutely there is no obvious route to a political solution, and no bargaining with such people. It doesn't necessarily follow from this however that military action will always make the situation better and never make it worse. Islamic terrorism is not based on organisation, but spreads like a virus based on perverted belief. Given previous incidents there is a reasonable probability that yesterday's criminal may well be local and probably had no links with ISIS operatives abroad.
Which is why the perverted ideology needs to be challenged. A military solution is necessary but by no means sufficient. We concentrate too much on the latter and too little on the former.
For instance, to take the Irish example, we stood firm on the principle that there should be no change to the status of Northern Ireland without the democratic consent of its people. Of course, we dealt with many of the long-standing grievances of the Catholic community, as we should have done long before. But we did not give in on the basic principle and we challenged the ideology which believed that a United Ireland should be created through violence.
Islamist ideology justifying violence needs to be challenged - ideologically - and hard. It is not enough to say how ghastly it is. We need to say why it is wrong and do everything possible to prevent it getting a foothold here and, where it has, do everything we can to dislodge it. Hearts and minds and all that.
Katie Hopkins calls for " a final solution " in response to Manchester.
Katie Hopkins is a troll. Unfortunately, she has a modicum of intelligence and will know the connotations of using such phrases. But her modus operandi is to be gratuitously offensive. Best to ignore.
Yep, I totally agree.
If we stopped reacting to every awful thing Hopkins says, she wouldn't have a career.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
Suspect there will be a speech from May later this morning? Wouldn't be surprised if Corbyn also made a statement.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
It's much more basic than that.
Britain, and its leaders, need to be willing to stand up for its values.
Tolerance, for example, doesn't mean standing by and letting segregation of women or indoctrination of children occur
Mr. Patrick, a stauncher defence of Western values (free speech foremost amongst them) would be a good step. The first people subjugated, oppressed and abused by religious zealots are religious moderates.
With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
If there is no one in Daesh to negotiate with, how can the solution be talking?
Idiot. This is an ideology not an army. Home grown suicide bombers radicalised by hate preachers. You think they have an ISIS membership card?
With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
If there is no one in Daesh to negotiate with, how can the solution be talking?
Daesh are not a separatist movement. There is nothing tangible they want except for our destruction.
There is nothing we can compromise on, it's either them or us.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
If there is no one in Daesh to negotiate with, how can the solution be talking?
He doesn't mean talking with them, and says as much. I take him to mean that the solution to the very difficult problem of how to stop disaffected individuals from subscribing to ISIS ideology and committing lone wolf atrocities like this is unlikely to be military.
Yes, it would be welcome to see ISIS deprived of their territory and the false legitimacy of appearing to have a state, but who really thinks the problem will disappear when Syria and Iraq are back in the hands of their governments?
I remember hearing of the IRA Harrods Christmas shopping bomb in 1983 thinking 'tut-tut - how dreadful'. Then the names of the victims came out and I thought - that's odd, I know someone with that name and that age, what a coincidence! It was only later that the penny dropped that it was a university friend (and fellow Edmund Burke President of the PM) who had died. Only child of immigrant parents who he had made inordinately proud by getting into Oxford - devastated them. There will be many stories like that today.
Philip Geddes - sitting next to Theresa Brasier, as she was then:
Irish republicans saw (and see) themselves as maintaining an unbroken line from 1916 and before. It was not just that catholics couldn't get a job at Harland and Wolff. It was the desire for an independent, now united Ireland (as recently as yesterday you could hear Sinn Fein politicians articulate such a desire.
In the end, they lost, but many haven't stopped fighting.
Yes, but that isn't the point. There was systematic discrimination in housing, schooling, employment; Northern Ireland didnt even have one-person one vote for local elections (voting being tied to property long after this had been abandoned in rUK) and boundaries were gerrymandered to ensure unionist dominance of local institutions. Policing was notoriously partisan, often violent, and a blind eye turned to the crimes of loyalist paramilitaries. Things were so bad in the 1960s that significant parts of the catholic population actually welcomed the arrival of the British Army, at least initially, in 1969.
The point I was making wasn't about the political aspirations of the terrorists themselves, but about the environment that enabled them to maintain a support base, of funding, assistance and future recruits. No terrorist organisation (as distinct from lone wolves) can exist without tacit support from a wider community. Without forced resolution of these grievances it would never have been possible to secure a political settlement.
It tends to be forgotten now that the civil rights movement in Northern Ireland was almost totally successful in achieving reform, before the IRA campaign got going. The IRA's aim was to destroy the State, not to reform it.
Indeed. And the Shadow Home Secretary thought that a defeat for the British State was a "victory for us all".
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
The Catholic community in Northern Ireland had genuine grievances. Had those been addressed from the start it is quite possible that the terrorist campaign would not have started or lasted as long as it did.
Daesh want an Islamic caliphate anywhere where there has been Islam. They want sharia law to rule and they want and believe that Islam should take over the world. They have a very particular view of what Islam should be and how they should copy Mohammed's example. See the recent Tom Holland documentary on Channel 4 - "ISIS - The Roots of Violence". There is no bargaining with such people. Just their complete defeat: militarily and ideologically.
Absolutely there is no obvious route to a political solution, and no bargaining with such people. It doesn't necessarily follow from this however that military action will always make the situation better and never make it worse. Islamic terrorism is not based on organisation, but spreads like a virus based on perverted belief. Given previous incidents there is a reasonable probability that yesterday's criminal may well be local and probably had no links with ISIS operatives abroad.
Which is why the perverted ideology needs to be challenged. A military solution is necessary but by no means sufficient. We concentrate too much on the latter and too little on the former.
Islamist ideology justifying violence needs to be challenged - ideologically - and hard. It is not enough to say how ghastly it is. We need to say why it is wrong and do everything possible to prevent it getting a foothold here and, where it has, do everything we can to dislodge it. Hearts and minds and all that.
If people have real grievances, they should be redressed. That doesn't mean that there should be any compromise with unreasonable demands. There's nothing that we could reasonably offer to Islamists.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The Catholic community in Northern Ireland had genuine grievances. Had those been addressed from the start it is quite possible that the terrorist campaign would not have started or lasted as long as it did.
Daesh want an Islamic caliphate anywhere where there has been Islam. They want sharia law to rule and they want and believe that Islam should take over the world. They have a very particular view of what Islam should be and how they should copy Mohammed's example. See the recent Tom Holland documentary on Channel 4 - "ISIS - The Roots of Violence". There is no bargaining with such people. Just their complete defeat: militarily and ideologically.
Absolutely there is no obvious route to a political solution, and no bargaining with such people. It doesn't necessarily follow from this however that military action will always make the situation better and never make it worse. Islamic terrorism is not based on organisation, but spreads like a virus based on perverted belief. Given previous incidents there is a reasonable probability that yesterday's criminal may well be local and probably had no links with ISIS operatives abroad.
Which is why the perverted ideology needs to be challenged. A military solution is necessary but by no means sufficient. We concentrate too much on the latter and too little on the former.
Islamist ideology justifying violence needs to be challenged - ideologically - and hard. It is not enough to say how ghastly it is. We need to say why it is wrong and do everything possible to prevent it getting a foothold here and, where it has, do everything we can to dislodge it. Hearts and minds and all that.
If people have real grievances, they should be redressed. That doesn't mean that there should be any compromise with unreasonable demands. There's nothing that we could reasonably offer to Islamists.
True. And yet see how many apparently liberal people rushed to say that perhaps we should censor ourselves over what we can say or draw about Mohammed, a key demand of Islamists. So I am not as confident as I would like to be that there aren't people around willing to offer something to Islamists.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
I suspect we'll have some conspiracy nutters claiming that it was carried out by the government in order to divert attention from the 'dementia tax' and to stop Labour's rise in the polls.
True. And yet see how many apparently liberal people rushed to say that perhaps we should censor ourselves over what we can say or draw about Mohammed, a key demand of Islamists. So I am not as confident as I would like to be that there aren't people around willing to offer something to Islamists.
Yes, what compromises were made in the other direction?
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Inevitably this attack will increase even further calls for stricter border controls and greater control of immigration policy, though some on the far left may link it with UK involvement in Iraq and Syria but ultimately we are going to need even tighter security at public events and more support for the likes of GCHQ, MI6 and MI5 who generally do as good a job as they can at stopping attacks but you cannot stop them all. However for the moment the focus will be on mourning the victims as it should be
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
I think May made a statement after the COBRA meeting a month or so ago after the Westminster attack, so there is precedent. As for Corbyn, I wouldn't be surprised if he made a recorded statement, although by virtue of not being the PM it will obviously be a lot less substantial.
As for your two options for the tone, let's hope it's more of column b.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Inevitably this attack will increase even further calls for stricter border controls and greater control of immigration policy, though some on the far left may link it with UK involvement in Iraq and Syria but ultimately we are going to need even tighter security at public events and more support for the likes of GCHQ, MI6 and MI5 you generally do as good a job as they can at stopping attacks but you cannot stop them all. However for the moment the focus will be on mourning the victims as it should be
Thank god no sane political party has called for the abolition of the security services.... oh.
Sweet Jesus, some of the comments (Not from here I might add)
The country will be full of people making remarks that to some are unpalatable. Its worth remembering that somebody has just murdered children, it offends everything a civilised nation stands for.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Inevitably this attack will increase even further calls for stricter border controls and greater control of immigration policy, though some on the far left may link it with UK involvement in Iraq and Syria but ultimately we are going to need even tighter security at public events and more support for the likes of GCHQ, MI6 and MI5 you generally do as good a job as they can at stopping attacks but you cannot stop them all. However for the moment the focus will be on mourning the victims as it should be
Thank god no sane political party has called for the abolition of the security services.... oh.
Indeed but I don't think party politics is for today and Corbyn is clearly as shocked as the rest of us
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
I think May made a statement after the COBRA meeting a month or so ago after the Westminster attack, so there is precedent. As for Corbyn, I wouldn't be surprised if he made a recorded statement, although by virtue of not being the PM it will obviously be a lot less substantial.
As for your two options for the tone, let's hope it's more of column b.
Thanks and I agree, I guess what I'd like to see is the instincts of these two people. If Corbyn shows the slightest contrition and understanding he's done for. Forget his cronies in London, working class towns in the north will be watching him.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
Sweet Jesus, some of the comments (Not from here I might add)
The country will be full of people making remarks that to some are unpalatable. Its worth remembering that somebody has just murdered children, it offends everything a civilised nation stands for.
Specifically targeted an event with mainly children/teenagers in the audience. Sick.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
Understanding without doing anything about it is clearly useless. But going after people without understanding what you are dealing with is little better. Remember that 9/11 was used to justify the invasion of Iraq; how well did that turn out?
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
We do need to understand why someone does that to ensure we can identify and catch the next people likely to do so and stop them before they can...
Manchester shows that while our security intelligence is good its clearly still got some way to go....
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Inevitably this attack will increase even further calls for stricter border controls and greater control of immigration policy, though some on the far left may link it with UK involvement in Iraq and Syria but ultimately we are going to need even tighter security at public events and more support for the likes of GCHQ, MI6 and MI5 you generally do as good a job as they can at stopping attacks but you cannot stop them all. However for the moment the focus will be on mourning the victims as it should be
Thank god no sane political party has called for the abolition of the security services.... oh.
Indeed but I don't think party politics is for today and Corbyn is clearly as shocked as the rest of us
Today is one of those days when politics crashes into everyday life. Everybody, consciously or otherwise, is going to be seeing Theresa May fronting this incident for the Government, then thinking to themselves "do I really want Jeremy Corbyn standing at that podium in Downing Street, trying to reassure us on how we will deal with terrorism and keeping us safe?"
It is something I was pondering a few weeks ago when the Spanish made it an issue in the negotiations. If we gave Gibraltar a seat in the commons, it would make it somewhat harder for them to demand a say in the running of the Rock.
It is something I was pondering a few weeks ago when the Spanish made it an issue in the negotiations. If we gave Gibraltar a seat in the commons, it would make it somewhat harder for them to demand a say in the running of the Rock.
Yes, it could/would be described as an integral part of the United Kingdom.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
There's a whole generation of voters who have no compression of the reality of the IRA and Corbyn & McDonnell support for them. Maybe the juxtaposition of the 2 bombings will open their eyes.
Sweet Jesus, some of the comments (Not from here I might add)
The country will be full of people making remarks that to some are unpalatable. Its worth remembering that somebody has just murdered children, it offends everything a civilised nation stands for.
More the false flag/MI5 did it loons I'm referring to here. Comments regarding mosques etc are perfectly understandable right now.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Disgusting post you are an ARSE
If it's disgusting to state the truth of Corbyn's perfidy then I happily plead guilty.
In the light of last nights terrorist attack you as a Labour partisan may wish to dance on a pinhead to avoid confronting Corbyn's past and the implications of it for the general election.
It is something I was pondering a few weeks ago when the Spanish made it an issue in the negotiations. If we gave Gibraltar a seat in the commons, it would make it somewhat harder for them to demand a say in the running of the Rock.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
We do need to understand why someone does that to ensure we can identify and catch the next people likely to do so and stop them before they can...
Manchester shows that while are security intelligence is good its clearly still got some way to go....
Fundamentalist religion is the only understanding you need. The only solution is to stamp it out. It has no place in Western Society, or any society.
It is something I was pondering a few weeks ago when the Spanish made it an issue in the negotiations. If we gave Gibraltar a seat in the commons, it would make it somewhat harder for them to demand a say in the running of the Rock.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Inevitably this attack will increase even further calls for stricter border controls and greater control of immigration policy, though some on the far left may link it with UK involvement in Iraq and Syria but ultimately we are going to need even tighter security at public events and more support for the likes of GCHQ, MI6 and MI5 you generally do as good a job as they can at stopping attacks but you cannot stop them all. However for the moment the focus will be on mourning the victims as it should be
If a terrorist has a bomb strapped to their body and are prepared to commit suicide in the execution of an atrocity I think there is basically nothing we can do stop it. There will always be concentations of people in shops, transport hubs, entertainment venues, etc. They are all unpoliceable targets. The security services do a fantastic job of proventing most of what is planned. But the terrorist only has to succeed very occasionally. A deeper fix will need to come in the form of being utterly intolerant of intolerance. Which may have some ugly implications for even mainstream Islam. And not letting fear of this sort of thing limit our freedoms of speech (or cartoon drawing).
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
Understand doesn't in any way mean sympathise. It means understand their motive in order to preempt similar attacks in the future. It's probably a mistake to label it an act of incomprehensible insanity, though I agree it is very tempting to do so.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
I think May made a statement after the COBRA meeting a month or so ago after the Westminster attack, so there is precedent. As for Corbyn, I wouldn't be surprised if he made a recorded statement, although by virtue of not being the PM it will obviously be a lot less substantial.
As for your two options for the tone, let's hope it's more of column b.
Thanks and I agree, I guess what I'd like to see is the instincts of these two people. If Corbyn shows the slightest contrition and understanding he's done for. Forget his cronies in London, working class towns in the north will be watching him.
Statement from the PM confirmed by the BBC. In an hour or so.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
Yes, of course we do; there is no subject that I can think of which we can't deal with more effectively, the more we understand it. If you are advocating some kind of cult of willful ignorance, you aren't going to find many takers here.
Sweet Jesus, some of the comments (Not from here I might add)
The country will be full of people making remarks that to some are unpalatable. Its worth remembering that somebody has just murdered children, it offends everything a civilised nation stands for.
More the false flag/MI5 did it loons I'm referring to here. Comments regarding mosques etc are perfectly understandable right now.
Ahhh I'm with you. The internet has given an audience to absolute nutjobs.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
It's much more basic than that.
Britain, and its leaders, need to be willing to stand up for its values.
Tolerance, for example, doesn't mean standing by and letting segregation of women or indoctrination of children occur
It is something I was pondering a few weeks ago when the Spanish made it an issue in the negotiations. If we gave Gibraltar a seat in the commons, it would make it somewhat harder for them to demand a say in the running of the Rock.
Yes, it could/would be described as an integral part of the United Kingdom.
And of course, this is exactly how the 2 spanish territories (Ceuta and Melilla) are different in that they are an integral part of the Spanish kingdom with MPs, Senators etc sitting in Madrid, not such a bad idea if I am honest.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Disgusting post you are an ARSE
Labour chose to offer this man up as a potential Prime Minister.
In defence of politicisation of these issues - I take the view that when there is a mass shooting in the US, all the NRA people saying that 'today is not the time for politics' or accusing the democrats of making political capital out of the shootings is pretty disgusting in my mind, because it just stops discussing the problems at hand. I have a feeling many people are the same as me in this regard.
Therefore, I cannot oppose the politicisation of other attacks - terrorism should be open for politicisation just as much as other issues. I happen to disagree with those on here who link the issue to Corbyn's IRA failings, I don't think this will massively affect his campaign. But you can't pretend these issues don't have a political aspect.
I'll leave others to pontificate on the political ramifications though I see some have already started with the cheap partisan points scoring.
My initial thought, after the shock and sadness, is to ask not so much how this could happen because I can't conceive of the motivation but what could be done to prevent it in terms of stadium security.
At the O2, which I have attended on a number of occasions, bags are searched but that seems more about you not taking in your own food and drink and being forced to pay their vastly over-inflated prices. The introduction of airport-style screening devices seems obvious but trying to get 2000 people through a series of those into a concert or show seems a massive logistical exercise and what of even bigger venues ?
These will be questions stadium operators will have to face in the future but for now there are other considerations.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Inevitably this attack will increase even further calls for stricter border controls and greater control of immigration policy, though some on the far left may link it with UK involvement in Iraq and Syria but ultimately we are going to need even s will be on mourning the victims as it should be
If a terrorist has a bomb strapped to their body and are prepared to commit suicide in the execution of an atrocity I think there is basically nothing we can do stop it. There will always be concentations of people in shops, transport hubs, entertainment venues, etc. They are all unpoliceable targets. The security services do a fantastic job of proventing most of what is planned. But the terrorist only has to succeed very occasionally. A deeper fix will need to come in the form of being utterly intolerant of intolerance. Which may have some ugly implications for even mainstream Islam. And not letting fear of this sort of thing limit our freedoms of speech (or cartoon drawing).
Which makes tougher policing, stop and search, CCTV, the security services even more important, of course you cannot stop it all but we have to learn from Israel for example
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Disgusting post you are an ARSE
If it's disgusting to state the truth of Corbyn's perfidy then I happily plead guilty.
In the light of last nights terrorist attack you as a Labour partisan may wish to dance on a pinhead to avoid confronting Corbyn's past and the implications of it for the general election.
So be it.
As a Tory Partisan. Your first thoughts are to make Political Capital.
Have to say despite knowing exactly who you are and your role with Thatcher I am surprised and disappointed.
That would make us part of the UK. We're happy as we are, thank you.
But given a choice between Spanish involvement in the running of the Rock and having Westminster representation (and maintaining independence), how would Gibraltarians vote in a referendum?
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
We do need to understand why someone does that to ensure we can identify and catch the next people likely to do so and stop them before they can...
Manchester shows that while are security intelligence is good its clearly still got some way to go....
Fundamentalist religion is the only understanding you need. The only solution is to stamp it out. It has no place in Western Society, or any society.
Please don't merge all 'religions' together.
A fundamentalist Christian wouldn't believe in bombing people into submission.
Jehovah's Witnesses (although a cult) are at heart pacifists.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Disgusting post you are an ARSE
If it's disgusting to state the truth of Corbyn's perfidy then I happily plead guilty.
In the light of last nights terrorist attack you as a Labour partisan may wish to dance on a pinhead to avoid confronting Corbyn's past and the implications of it for the general election.
So be it.
What is the truth Jack w can you spell it out .So we are all clear .
Sweet Jesus, some of the comments (Not from here I might add)
The country will be full of people making remarks that to some are unpalatable. Its worth remembering that somebody has just murdered children, it offends everything a civilised nation stands for.
More the false flag/MI5 did it loons I'm referring to here.
I suspected that they would happen.
Where are you seeing them - if they are from known Corbyn supporters then Labour has real problems.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
We do need to understand why someone does that to ensure we can identify and catch the next people likely to do so and stop them before they can...
Manchester shows that while are security intelligence is good its clearly still got some way to go....
Fundamentalist religion is the only understanding you need. The only solution is to stamp it out. It has no place in Western Society, or any society.
As a long time member of Humanists UK I share your dislike of fundamentalist religion. But you only defeat ideologies like that by demonstrating that there is a better way. And by considered interventions that make the environment in which it thrives less fertile. Using direct force to try and defeat it will however simply generate thousands of new recruits.
Mr. Patrick, I agree entirely. Self-censorship so publications are in line with Islamic rules is disturbing, and if politicians stood up for Western values more strongly it'd make things easier for journalists, cartoonists and other writers/artists.
I don't think it is possible to understand a culture that murders it's own citizens in truly abhorrent ways. Until Islam cleans it's own house the West has little chance of eliminating this. The continued inaction of 'civilised' Muslim states pasively encourages extremism.
It is something I was pondering a few weeks ago when the Spanish made it an issue in the negotiations. If we gave Gibraltar a seat in the commons, it would make it somewhat harder for them to demand a say in the running of the Rock.
Yes, it could/would be described as an integral part of the United Kingdom.
And of course, this is exactly how the 2 spanish territories (Ceuta and Melilla) are different in that they are an integral part of the Spanish kingdom with MPs, Senators etc sitting in Madrid, not such a bad idea if I am honest.
There's a minority opinion over here which supports this. In fact the Integration With Britain Party was briefly in power in Gibraltar 1969-72
My friend Maurice Xiberras was the Deputy Chief Minister then, and died in March this year.
I agree @CarlottaVance about the status quo. The vast majority here are happy with the current constitutional settlement. I think that also goes for the branch of my family in Jersey too.
Sweet Jesus, some of the comments (Not from here I might add)
The country will be full of people making remarks that to some are unpalatable. Its worth remembering that somebody has just murdered children, it offends everything a civilised nation stands for.
More the false flag/MI5 did it loons I'm referring to here.
I suspected that they would happen.
Where are you seeing them - if they are from known Corbyn supporters then Labour has real problems.
Not a big leap from posting fake news about May releasing Ian Brady.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
We do need to understand why someone does that to ensure we can identify and catch the next people likely to do so and stop them before they can...
Manchester shows that while are security intelligence is good its clearly still got some way to go....
Fundamentalist religion is the only understanding you need. The only solution is to stamp it out. It has no place in Western Society, or any society.
Please don't merge all 'religions' together.
A fundamentalist Christian wouldn't believe in bombing people into submission.
Jehovah's Witnesses (although a cult) are at heart pacifists.
I'm not working today and will be spending time at the golf club followed by a few pubs and an Indian, I'm interested to guage the mood. There will come a time, not sure when, that it will get very ugly.
I don't think it is possible to understand a culture that murders it's own citizens in truly abhorrent ways. Until Islam cleans it's own house the West has little chance of eliminating this. The continued inaction of 'civilised' Muslim states pasively encourages extremism.
Indeed. Out of interest, I wonder what the PB commentariat's general reaction to Trump's speech in Saudi was. He's put precisely this challenge right to them - with good feedback.
It seems odd to my mind to regard two fog-bound rocks off the coast of Newfoundland, or some volcano in the middle of the Indian Ocean as part of France.
It is something I was pondering a few weeks ago when the Spanish made it an issue in the negotiations. If we gave Gibraltar a seat in the commons, it would make it somewhat harder for them to demand a say in the running of the Rock.
Yes, it could/would be described as an integral part of the United Kingdom.
And of course, this is exactly how the 2 spanish territories (Ceuta and Melilla) are different in that they are an integral part of the Spanish kingdom with MPs, Senators etc sitting in Madrid, not such a bad idea if I am honest.
There's a minority opinion over here which supports this. In fact the Integration With Britain Party was briefly in power in Gibraltar 1969-72
My friend Maurice Xiberras was the Deputy Chief Minister then, and died in March this year.
I agree @CarlottaVance about the status quo. The vast majority here are happy with the current constitutional settlement. I think that also goes for the branch of my family in Jersey too.
But if the status quo is under threat from renewed Spanish pressure as part of the Brexit negotiations, a new settlement might be necessary to protect Gibraltar. It is surely appropriate to look at all options to give Gibraltar every opportunity to ensure a decent future.
Comments
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
For instance, to take the Irish example, we stood firm on the principle that there should be no change to the status of Northern Ireland without the democratic consent of its people. Of course, we dealt with many of the long-standing grievances of the Catholic community, as we should have done long before. But we did not give in on the basic principle and we challenged the ideology which believed that a United Ireland should be created through violence.
Islamist ideology justifying violence needs to be challenged - ideologically - and hard. It is not enough to say how ghastly it is. We need to say why it is wrong and do everything possible to prevent it getting a foothold here and, where it has, do everything we can to dislodge it. Hearts and minds and all that.
If we stopped reacting to every awful thing Hopkins says, she wouldn't have a career.
Britain, and its leaders, need to be willing to stand up for its values.
Tolerance, for example, doesn't mean standing by and letting segregation of women or indoctrination of children occur
Cabinet Office Briefing Room A.. where such meetings are held.
There is nothing we can compromise on, it's either them or us.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
"If there is no one in Daesh to negotiate with, how can the solution be talking?"
I've asked this before. They have an aim - to bring the world under the strict rules of their version of Islam. Any deviation is punishable by death.
Even if there were to be a leader, what concessions would he offer? None.
Talking is a nonsense.
Yes, it would be welcome to see ISIS deprived of their territory and the false legitimacy of appearing to have a state, but who really thinks the problem will disappear when Syria and Iraq are back in the hands of their governments?
https://www.geddestrust.org/about
Well, I am not part of that "us".
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017
IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
I sympathise with your views, but depriving IS of territory and thus finance and influence is a start.
Very sad day for the nation and the victims' families.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
Did i see you say you are having a day at Chelsea on Thursday? If so, if be delighted to see you as I'm there too on Thursday
Twatter will give visibility to such people.
Mr. CD13, the propaganda defeat may be the most valuable prize of defeating ISIS.
As for your two options for the tone, let's hope it's more of column b.
Will he be campaigning in Rockall next?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3625037/tim-farron-blasted-for-using-gibraltar-residents-as-election-pawns-after-saying-rock-should-have-own-mp/
Manchester shows that while our security intelligence is good its clearly still got some way to go....
There's only one reaction to that thought.
In the light of last nights terrorist attack you as a Labour partisan may wish to dance on a pinhead to avoid confronting Corbyn's past and the implications of it for the general election.
So be it.
A deeper fix will need to come in the form of being utterly intolerant of intolerance. Which may have some ugly implications for even mainstream Islam. And not letting fear of this sort of thing limit our freedoms of speech (or cartoon drawing).
Some of us think that disgusting.
Therefore, I cannot oppose the politicisation of other attacks - terrorism should be open for politicisation just as much as other issues. I happen to disagree with those on here who link the issue to Corbyn's IRA failings, I don't think this will massively affect his campaign. But you can't pretend these issues don't have a political aspect.
Desperately sad news with which to start the day.
I'll leave others to pontificate on the political ramifications though I see some have already started with the cheap partisan points scoring.
My initial thought, after the shock and sadness, is to ask not so much how this could happen because I can't conceive of the motivation but what could be done to prevent it in terms of stadium security.
At the O2, which I have attended on a number of occasions, bags are searched but that seems more about you not taking in your own food and drink and being forced to pay their vastly over-inflated prices. The introduction of airport-style screening devices seems obvious but trying to get 2000 people through a series of those into a concert or show seems a massive logistical exercise and what of even bigger venues ?
These will be questions stadium operators will have to face in the future but for now there are other considerations.
Have a good day, everyone.
Have to say despite knowing exactly who you are and your role with Thatcher I am surprised and disappointed.
Please don't merge all 'religions' together.
A fundamentalist Christian wouldn't believe in bombing people into submission.
Jehovah's Witnesses (although a cult) are at heart pacifists.
Etc.
Where are you seeing them - if they are from known Corbyn supporters then Labour has real problems.
My friend Maurice Xiberras was the Deputy Chief Minister then, and died in March this year.
I agree @CarlottaVance about the status quo. The vast majority here are happy with the current constitutional settlement. I think that also goes for the branch of my family in Jersey too.