I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Disgusting post you are an ARSE
If it's disgusting to state the truth of Corbyn's perfidy then I happily plead guilty.
In the light of last nights terrorist attack you as a Labour partisan may wish to dance on a pinhead to avoid confronting Corbyn's past and the implications of it for the general election.
So be it.
You'll be accused of being a Sun reader next.....today's editorial:
THE SUN SAYS Innocent people were murdered specifically because Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell sucked up to the IRA Labour pair were snivelling IRA fanboys as it unleashed slaughter on Britain
Mr. Patrick, I agree entirely. Self-censorship so publications are in line with Islamic rules is disturbing, and if politicians stood up for Western values more strongly it'd make things easier for journalists, cartoonists and other writers/artists.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Disgusting post you are an ARSE
If it's disgusting to state the truth of Corbyn's perfidy then I happily plead guilty.
In the light of last nights terrorist attack you as a Labour partisan may wish to dance on a pinhead to avoid confronting Corbyn's past and the implications of it for the general election.
So be it.
What is the truth Jack w can you spell it out .So we are all clear .
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Disgusting post you are an ARSE
If it's disgusting to state the truth of Corbyn's perfidy then I happily plead guilty.
In the light of last nights terrorist attack you as a Labour partisan may wish to dance on a pinhead to avoid confronting Corbyn's past and the implications of it for the general election.
So be it.
As a Tory Partisan. Your first thoughts are to make Political Capital.
Have to say despite knowing exactly who you are and your role with Thatcher I am surprised and disappointed.
I must be the most non-conservative "Tory Partisan" on PB.
Not being a member of the Jezza4PM Fan Club doesn't mean I enjoy eating babies for gastronomic delight.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown ents.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
We do need to understand why someone does that to ensure we can identify and catch the next people likely to do so and stop them before they can...
Manchester shows that while are security intelligence is good its clearly still got some way to go....
Fundamentalist religion is the only understanding you need. The only solution is to stamp it out. It has no place in Western Society, or any society.
Please don't merge all 'religions' together.
A fundamentalist Christian wouldn't believe in bombing people into submission.
Jehovah's Witnesses (although a cult) are at heart pacifists.
That's not fundamentalism. They're not carrying out violence because they believe at heart that's what Christianity is telling them to do.
Many excuses are made for violence (including religion, pride, revenge) but that's different to fundamentally believing that your religion makes you superior to everyone else, and that killing as many unbelievers as possible will get you into paradise.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
Yes I get that.
Not long after the floods Brown got a massive boost, he was seen as good in a crisis. I would just like to see Corbyn and May with microphones up their nostrils this morning, let's see the colour of their eyes rather than prepared statements.
Like I said, May will likely make a statement after the meeting at 9am.
I'm pleased to hear that and would like the opportunity to compare it with Corbyn's.
I'm interested to hear the tone of their response, is it
"We've got to understand" or is it
"Lets get the bastards"
One of those two is going to be PM, I want to know what they'll do to prevent this happening again, and I don't want to hear something that Lynton Crosby has told her to say.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
We do need to understand why someone does that to ensure we can identify and catch the next people likely to do so and stop them before they can...
Manchester shows that while are security intelligence is good its clearly still got some way to go....
Fundamentalist religion is the only understanding you need. The only solution is to stamp it out. It has no place in Western Society, or any society.
Please don't merge all 'religions' together.
A fundamentalist Christian wouldn't believe in bombing people into submission.
Jehovah's Witnesses (although a cult) are at heart pacifists.
That would make us part of the UK. We're happy as we are, thank you.
But given a choice between Spanish involvement in the running of the Rock and having Westminster representation (and maintaining independence), how would Gibraltarians vote in a referendum?
Maintain independence without Westminster representation.....in the Channel Islands we already have our own grasping venal incompetent politicians (actually, they're not that bad) why would we want any more to do with the UK's? What 'problem' is 'Westminster representation' purportedly solving?
That's not fundamentalism. They're not carrying out violence because they believe at heart that's what Christianity is telling them to do.
Many excuses are made for violence (including religion, pride, revenge) but that's different to fundamentally believing that your religion makes you superior to everyone else, and that killing as many unbelievers as possible will get you into paradise.
I think one could reasonably describe Guy Fawkes & Co. as Christian terrorists, but we're way past the point when people carry out terrorist acts to promote their brand of Christianity.
That would make us part of the UK. We're happy as we are, thank you.
But given a choice between Spanish involvement in the running of the Rock and having Westminster representation (and maintaining independence), how would Gibraltarians vote in a referendum?
Maintain independence without Westminster representation.....in the Channel Islands we already have our own grasping venal incompetent politicians (actually, they're not that bad) why would we want any more to do with the UK's? What 'problem' is 'Westminster representation' purportedly solving?
Mainly to have a voice in matters that are the responsibility of the UK parliament. Although I suppose there are other forums/channels for this.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Disgusting post you are an ARSE
If it's disgusting to state the truth of Corbyn's perfidy then I happily plead guilty.
In the light of last nights terrorist attack you as a Labour partisan may wish to dance on a pinhead to avoid confronting Corbyn's past and the implications of it for the general election.
So be it.
As a Tory Partisan. Your first thoughts are to make Political Capital.
Have to say despite knowing exactly who you are and your role with Thatcher I am surprised and disappointed.
JackW is not a Tory partisan. You of course are a Labour partisan
That would make us part of the UK. We're happy as we are, thank you.
But given a choice between Spanish involvement in the running of the Rock and having Westminster representation (and maintaining independence), how would Gibraltarians vote in a referendum?
Maintain independence without Westminster representation.....in the Channel Islands we already have our own grasping venal incompetent politicians (actually, they're not that bad) why would we want any more to do with the UK's? What 'problem' is 'Westminster representation' purportedly solving?
Essentially a buffer to prevent Spanish attempts at taking over. I would not be proposing Westminster oversight - just a mechanism to shut out the issue of Spanish involvement.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Disgusting post you are an ARSE
If it's disgusting to state the truth of Corbyn's perfidy then I happily plead guilty.
In the light of last nights terrorist attack you as a Labour partisan may wish to dance on a pinhead to avoid confronting Corbyn's past and the implications of it for the general election.
So be it.
As a Tory Partisan. Your first thoughts are to make Political Capital.
Have to say despite knowing exactly who you are and your role with Thatcher I am surprised and disappointed.
JackW is not a Tory partisan. You of course are a Labour partisan
Yes, you only need to take a look through the past few threads.
A fundamentalist Christian wouldn't believe in bombing people into submission.
Jehovah's Witnesses (although a cult) are at heart pacifists.
Etc.
Well, it is legitimate to merge all religions together as time-wasting arsehattery. We should not be putting on niminy-piminy faces and saying we have a very deep respect for the true faith of Islam, just less of the child-murder would be great, please; we should be abolishing "faith" schools and teaching children that there is a very, very strong case for pointing and laughing at people who align themselves with Mecca five times a day, and equally at people who get together for pretendy cannibal picnics on Sundays.
That would make us part of the UK. We're happy as we are, thank you.
But given a choice between Spanish involvement in the running of the Rock and having Westminster representation (and maintaining independence), how would Gibraltarians vote in a referendum?
Maintain independence without Westminster representation.....in the Channel Islands we already have our own grasping venal incompetent politicians (actually, they're not that bad) why would we want any more to do with the UK's? What 'problem' is 'Westminster representation' purportedly solving?
I had dinner with the Attorney General Michael Llamas QC last week. He basically said that as we've got devo-max on steroids right now so there's no upside to exchanging a constitution that enshrines self-determination for a bloke with a rosette.
That would make us part of the UK. We're happy as we are, thank you.
But given a choice between Spanish involvement in the running of the Rock and having Westminster representation (and maintaining independence), how would Gibraltarians vote in a referendum?
Maintain independence without Westminster representation.....in the Channel Islands we already have our own grasping venal incompetent politicians (actually, they're not that bad) why would we want any more to do with the UK's? What 'problem' is 'Westminster representation' purportedly solving?
I had dinner with the Attorney General Michael Llamas QC last week. He basically said that as we've got devo-max on steroids right now so there's no upside to exchanging a constitution that enshrines self-determination for a bloke with a rosette.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Disgusting post you are an ARSE
If it's disgusting to state the truth of Corbyn's perfidy then I happily plead guilty.
In the light of last nights terrorist attack you as a Labour partisan may wish to dance on a pinhead to avoid confronting Corbyn's past and the implications of it for the general election.
I struggle with how some people are speculating on the political ramifications of this. Some kids went to a concert and aren't coming home again. Others have suffered gratuitous injuries. This event is NOT something where "Corbyn's in trouble now" fantasies are appropriate. Or May's in trouble for that matter given that ISIS operate regardless of who is in power.
This isn't the IRA, and comparisons to that civil war are lazy. With ISIS there is no-one to negotiate with. No rational cause. No army to target. These suicide bombers are so often radicalised citizens of the state they then attack. There will be a solution to this, and that solution will be talking rather than bombing.
Well said.
Utter nonsense.
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Disgusting post you are an ARSE
If it's disgusting to state the truth of Corbyn's perfidy then I happily plead guilty.
In the light of last nights terrorist attack you as a Labour partisan may wish to dance on a pinhead to avoid confronting Corbyn's past and the implications of it for the general election.
So be it.
What is the truth Jack w can you spell it out .So we are all clear .
Carletta I was asking JackW as I respect what he thinks not the sun.As the sun is not a trustworthy source as many in Liverpool and Northern England are aware.
That would make us part of the UK. We're happy as we are, thank you.
But given a choice between Spanish involvement in the running of the Rock and having Westminster representation (and maintaining independence), how would Gibraltarians vote in a referendum?
Maintain independence without Westminster representation.....in the Channel Islands we already have our own grasping venal incompetent politicians (actually, they're not that bad) why would we want any more to do with the UK's? What 'problem' is 'Westminster representation' purportedly solving?
I had dinner with the Attorney General Michael Llamas QC last week. He basically said that as we've got devo-max on steroids right now so there's no upside to exchanging a constitution that enshrines self-determination for a bloke with a rosette.
Why not both?
That's why I quoted Mr Llamas rather than offered my own opinion
When the Attorney General tells you that you can't have both, I'm telling you for a fact that he's more qualified than me to speak on the matter!
This terrorist outrage is a political act and those who think there are no political implications are completely deluded.
The harsh and undoubted reality is that there is only one political leader who will be dangling in the wind through to polling day and his name is Corbyn.
Over the coming days and weeks as the spotlight moves from the initial outrage through to interviews with relatives of the dead and injured and injured themselves and funerals, the nation will be confronted with the weasel words of Jezza on terrorist outrages in the UK and overseas down the decades. Aided and abetted by his Shadow Home Secretary - Diane Abbott
ISIS Manchester Arena Bombing 2017 IRA Manchester Arndale Bombing 1996
The political juxtaposition is devastating.
Inevitably this attack will increase even further calls for stricter border controls and greater control of immigration policy, though some on the far left may link it with UK involvement in Iraq and Syria but ultimately we are going to need even tighter security at public events and more support for the likes of GCHQ, MI6 and MI5 you generally do as good a job as they can at stopping attacks but you cannot stop them all. However for the moment the focus will be on mourning the victims as it should be
Thank god no sane political party has called for the abolition of the security services.... oh.
Indeed but I don't think party politics is for today and Corbyn is clearly as shocked as the rest of us
Today is one of those days when politics crashes into everyday life. Everybody, consciously or otherwise, is going to be seeing Theresa May fronting this incident for the Government, then thinking to themselves "do I really want Jeremy Corbyn standing at that podium in Downing Street, trying to reassure us on how we will deal with terrorism and keeping us safe?"
There's only one reaction to that thought.
Playing politics with this would not only be self-defeating, it's utterly unnecessary.
My first and only thoughts today are with victims and families.
Really cannot understand those respected posters who within a few hours of hearing the news wish to make Political Capital.
My view is thats disgusting but I don't want to get dragged down to their level so will go elsewhere for the day.
It is not making political capital to point to the very significant implications, during a general election, that an act of political terrorism might have for one political leader whose reputation has been severely damaged by his own reactions to terrorist related issues down the decades.
I have mixed feelings about the election campaigns being halted, I understand respect and perspective. But I also want to see how these people react to a crisis before they have 24 hours to rehearse a statement.
And these attacks are directly linked to policy, people around the country want to know what govt is doing to protect us. After all that is the main (some might say only) task of govt.
The government will be reacting. There will be briefings going on right now. At this stage, visibility takes a back seat to operational considerations.
It would not be appropriate or justifiable for members of the government to down tools and make a few campaign stops instead.
'Understanding' and 'getting the bastards' are not only NOT contradictory, but are mutually supporting.
Oh I see, we need to understand why a bloke walks into a concert and murders children.
We do need to understand why someone does that to ensure we can identify and catch the next people likely to do so and stop them before they can...
Manchester shows that while are security intelligence is good its clearly still got some way to go....
Fundamentalist religion is the only understanding you need. The only solution is to stamp it out. It has no place in Western Society, or any society.
Please don't merge all 'religions' together.
A fundamentalist Christian wouldn't believe in bombing people into submission.
Jehovah's Witnesses (although a cult) are at heart pacifists.
Tell you what I will post details of 3 attacks carried out by Islamists for every one carried out in the name of christianity say in the last 10 years.
Comments
THE SUN SAYS Innocent people were murdered specifically because Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell sucked up to the IRA
Labour pair were snivelling IRA fanboys as it unleashed slaughter on Britain
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3625746/innocent-people-were-murdered-specifically-because-jeremy-corbyn-and-john-mcdonnell-sucked-up-to-the-ira/
Not being a member of the Jezza4PM Fan Club doesn't mean I enjoy eating babies for gastronomic delight.
That's not fundamentalism. They're not carrying out violence because they believe at heart that's what Christianity is telling them to do.
Many excuses are made for violence (including religion, pride, revenge) but that's different to fundamentally believing that your religion makes you superior to everyone else, and that killing as many unbelievers as possible will get you into paradise.
"The neutrality of this article is disputed"
My first and only thoughts today are with victims and families.
Really cannot understand those respected posters who within a few hours of hearing the news wish to make Political Capital.
My view is thats disgusting but I don't want to get dragged down to their level so will go elsewhere for the day.
When the Attorney General tells you that you can't have both, I'm telling you for a fact that he's more qualified than me to speak on the matter!
new thread
It is reality.