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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Reports of 20 dead after what appears to be terrorist incident

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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Fox reporting second device found. Controlled explosion.
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    edited May 2017
    So it sounds like some cowardly suicide bomber decided to walk up and hang around outside the entrance of the arena waiting for the concert to end, then blew himself up. Sickening and difficult to see how it could be prevented if the bomber was in a public place.
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    Tim_B said:

    Fox reporting second device found. Controlled explosion.

    Yes, GMP carried out a controlled explosion near Chethams - close to Victoria/Arena.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    I think line would be that we mustn't allow terrorists to interfere with our democracy.

    Also the GE is 17 days away - which is a fair while.

    Though even if this happened the day before I would still expect GE to go ahead.
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    Tim_B said:

    Fox reporting second device found. Controlled explosion.

    Yes, GMP carried out a controlled explosion near Chethams - close to Victoria/Arena.
    Update on Twitter is that controlled explosion was not a device. GMP not taking any chances, cordon widened.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Hearing rumours Islamic state claiming responsibility
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Floater said:

    seeing rumours from States of up to 30 dead

    I think we have to prepare ourselves for the number of dead to rise, it always does. NBC said pretty quickly 20+ dead and 100s injured.
    The only incident I can think of where the opposite happened was 9/11 oddly enough. Initial reports all said 5,000 dead and could rise, final death toll was much lower as people were getting double-counted, weren't actually there etc
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Just seen a video which seems clear it was a nail bomb
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited May 2017
    Some homeless dude entire worldly belongings have just been blown up...
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    I have BBC news channel on. Very cautious "official" coverage. Maybe rightly, not sure. But slightly weird that they are referencing "American news sources" (by which they mean US news channels who are braver/riskier on publicising the numbers). Not obvious why these US sources should be more reliable than the BBC's own reporters on the scene or close by.
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261

    Some homeless dude entire worldly belongings have just been blown up...
    I really shouldn't laugh with the horrific news coming out but I did at that.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    GMP going to do a controlled explosion on a second suspected device - sounds lucky that it never went off to be honest.

    That could be anything. Some tramps carry bag of belongings will get blown up rather than risked.
    Think you were right. Shouldn't laugh but seems a bit of dark humour in that.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    edited May 2017

    Some homeless dude entire worldly belongings have just been blown up...
    There's a few of beggars/rough sleepers in and around Market Street, which is about 2 mins walk from the Arena/Victoria, and Cathedral Gardens is half way between the Arena/Victoria and Market Street.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584

    GMP going to do a controlled explosion on a second suspected device - sounds lucky that it never went off to be honest.

    That could be anything. Some tramps carry bag of belongings will get blown up rather than risked.
    Think you were right. Shouldn't laugh but seems a bit of dark humour in that.
    We've always laughed at terrorism.

    Remember the whole 'I've been blown up by a better class of bastard than you' sayings.
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Sky news starting to quote US sources because they were correct earlier with some info. Now quoting US officials saying its a suspected suicide bombing.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    I have BBC news channel on. Very cautious "official" coverage. Maybe rightly, not sure. But slightly weird that they are referencing "American news sources" (by which they mean US news channels who are braver/riskier on publicising the numbers). Not obvious why these US sources should be more reliable than the BBC's own reporters on the scene or close by.

    Fox News have a close tie with Sky, CNN have stringers I think. 19 killed 50 injured seems to be getting traction.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Tim_B said:

    I have BBC news channel on. Very cautious "official" coverage. Maybe rightly, not sure. But slightly weird that they are referencing "American news sources" (by which they mean US news channels who are braver/riskier on publicising the numbers). Not obvious why these US sources should be more reliable than the BBC's own reporters on the scene or close by.

    Fox News have a close tie with Sky, CNN have stringers I think. 19 killed 50 injured seems to be getting traction.
    19 killed, 50 injured is the official figure published by GMP.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    I have BBC news channel on. Very cautious "official" coverage. Maybe rightly, not sure. But slightly weird that they are referencing "American news sources" (by which they mean US news channels who are braver/riskier on publicising the numbers). Not obvious why these US sources should be more reliable than the BBC's own reporters on the scene or close by.

    US and/or our Sky are prepared to broadcast "unofficial" news. In the first hour or so after an incident like this very few people actually know for certain what has really happened.

    So far as much as we know:
    1, Explosion
    2, Talk about a suicide bomber [ rucksack ] - not confirmed by police as yet
    3. Approx 20 dead, 50 injured. This could rise.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    GMP going to do a controlled explosion on a second suspected device - sounds lucky that it never went off to be honest.

    That could be anything. Some tramps carry bag of belongings will get blown up rather than risked.
    Think you were right. Shouldn't laugh but seems a bit of dark humour in that.
    We've always laughed at terrorism.

    Remember the whole 'I've been blown up by a better class of bastard than you' sayings.
    I know this sounds weird to say, but I can't believe that two incidents have happened in such quick succession this year.

    Watching CNN. They're saying attacks like this will be more likely as ISIS loses more and more territory.
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Isn't today 4th anniversary of the Lee Rigby killing... the timing is rather suggestive.
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    Isn't today 4th anniversary of the Lee Rigby killing... the timing is rather suggestive.

    Lee Rigby being from Middleton, just north of Manchester
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    jonny83 said:

    Sky news starting to quote US sources because they were correct earlier with some info. Now quoting US officials saying its a suspected suicide bombing.

    BBC Live coverage is so slow and sanitised it’s hardly worth following, they're now reporting the arena’s transport links while US news agencies have real time updates and analysis. Whether it's accurate on not remains to be seen.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    As a kid I Used to go to Manchester with my mother on shopping trips. As an adult I lived and worked there. Thoughts to the families and friends of those affected. I remember going to Belle Vue Zoo. Manchester was a great place to go.
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Danny565 said:
    You are probably not aware that German language pro-IS forums were firing out joyful claims of a strike within a hour of the incident.

    IS has official channels that have a track record. Only when they speak do you get certainty that they are as an organisation making a claim.

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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Y0kel said:

    Danny565 said:
    You are probably not aware that German language pro-IS forums were firing out joyful claims of a strike within a hour of the incident.

    IS has official channels that have a track record. Only when they speak do you get certainty that they are as an organisation making a claim.

    Also, the timestamp is apparently US time (i.e. after the attack took place), so probably is a red herring.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    CNN saying the Arena has released a statement saying the explosion happened outside.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369
    Just arrived back in our hotel in Vancouver from a day with our family to be confronted with this outrage.

    It is 6.08 pm here and the reporting has reduced my wife and I to tears. The Canadian government have just sent their Nations deepest sympathy and solidarity to the UK.

    The reporting is referring to the IRA terrorist days in the UK
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Y0kel said:

    Danny565 said:
    You are probably not aware that German language pro-IS forums were firing out joyful claims of a strike within a hour of the incident.

    IS has official channels that have a track record. Only when they speak do you get certainty that they are as an organisation making a claim.

    Well, these bastards have a month or two to go unless the American-Saudi sponsored units / Turkish units / Syrian-Russians fight amongst themselves.

    Of course, nutcases who are prepared to kill themselves are difficult to control, once a "cause" as they see it is finished, their numbers will begin to come down. Until some other "cause" comes up.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Just arrived back in our hotel in Vancouver from a day with our family to be confronted with this outrage.

    It is 6.08 pm here and the reporting has reduced my wife and I to tears. The Canadian government have just sent their Nations deepest sympathy and solidarity to the UK.

    The reporting is referring to the IRA terrorist days in the UK

    try to watch Fox News or CNN, assuming you can't get BBC World News
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369

    CNN saying the Arena has released a statement saying the explosion happened outside.

    Well on Canadian TV they are showing injured inside on the concourses
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    GMP presser at 2:40am BST
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Sky News - GMP statement by the Chief Constable at around 2.40am.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    CNN saying the Arena has released a statement saying the explosion happened outside.

    Well on Canadian TV they are showing injured inside on the concourses
    The explosion happened in the foyer just after the concert ended. Eye-witness accounts seem to confirm that.
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    surbiton said:

    Y0kel said:

    Danny565 said:
    You are probably not aware that German language pro-IS forums were firing out joyful claims of a strike within a hour of the incident.

    IS has official channels that have a track record. Only when they speak do you get certainty that they are as an organisation making a claim.

    Well, these bastards have a month or two to go unless the American-Saudi sponsored units / Turkish units / Syrian-Russians fight amongst themselves.

    Of course, nutcases who are prepared to kill themselves are difficult to control, once a "cause" as they see it is finished, their numbers will begin to come down. Until some other "cause" comes up.
    You completely fail to understand anything about IS then. They have organisational footholds in about 6 or 7 different countries outside of Syria and Iraq.

    If you have nothing useful to bring, don't bring it.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Is the IS spokesperson in the US ? The date is like MM/DD/YY and the time is 5 hours behind us ?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369
    Tim_B said:

    Just arrived back in our hotel in Vancouver from a day with our family to be confronted with this outrage.

    It is 6.08 pm here and the reporting has reduced my wife and I to tears. The Canadian government have just sent their Nations deepest sympathy and solidarity to the UK.

    The reporting is referring to the IRA terrorist days in the UK

    try to watch Fox News or CNN, assuming you can't get BBC World News
    BBC World is on but cannot receive CNN. Watching Canadian news channels but it is just so upsetting. My daughter and her husband with our granddaughter were there just three weeks ago
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    5live talking about extensive searches of Manchester hotel rooms.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Y0kel said:

    surbiton said:

    Y0kel said:

    Danny565 said:
    You are probably not aware that German language pro-IS forums were firing out joyful claims of a strike within a hour of the incident.

    IS has official channels that have a track record. Only when they speak do you get certainty that they are as an organisation making a claim.

    Well, these bastards have a month or two to go unless the American-Saudi sponsored units / Turkish units / Syrian-Russians fight amongst themselves.

    Of course, nutcases who are prepared to kill themselves are difficult to control, once a "cause" as they see it is finished, their numbers will begin to come down. Until some other "cause" comes up.
    You completely fail to understand anything about IS then. They have organisational footholds in about 6 or 7 different countries outside of Syria and Iraq.

    If you have nothing useful to bring, don't bring it.
    What bullshit are you talking about at this time ? You seem to be very well informed at times like this.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    CNN claiming male identified as suicide bomber
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017
    dsfsdf
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Just arrived back in our hotel in Vancouver from a day with our family to be confronted with this outrage.

    It is 6.08 pm here and the reporting has reduced my wife and I to tears. The Canadian government have just sent their Nations deepest sympathy and solidarity to the UK.

    The reporting is referring to the IRA terrorist days in the UK

    try to watch Fox News or CNN, assuming you can't get BBC World News
    BBC World is on but cannot receive CNN. Watching Canadian news channels but it is just so upsetting. My daughter and her husband with our granddaughter were there just three weeks ago
    BBC World News is good but very cautious in their reporting. This is not necessarily a bad thing.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Floater said:

    CNN claiming male identified as suicide bomber

    The odds of it being a female are pretty long.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Tim_B said:

    Floater said:

    CNN claiming male identified as suicide bomber

    The odds of it being a female are pretty long.
    I took it they meant they know who it was - but I might be wrong
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited May 2017
    Tim_B said:

    Floater said:

    CNN claiming male identified as suicide bomber

    The odds of it being a female are pretty long.
    Not really, remember women were among those recently arrested in anti-terror operations. And there have been plenty of female suicide bombers elsewhere.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Just arrived back in our hotel in Vancouver from a day with our family to be confronted with this outrage.

    It is 6.08 pm here and the reporting has reduced my wife and I to tears. The Canadian government have just sent their Nations deepest sympathy and solidarity to the UK.

    The reporting is referring to the IRA terrorist days in the UK

    try to watch Fox News or CNN, assuming you can't get BBC World News
    BBC World is on but cannot receive CNN. Watching Canadian news channels but it is just so upsetting. My daughter and her husband with our granddaughter were there just three weeks ago
    BBC World News is good but very cautious in their reporting. This is not necessarily a bad thing.
    Comparing BBC World News to Canadian/US just now the BBC are very guarded
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    surbiton said:

    Y0kel said:

    surbiton said:

    Y0kel said:

    Danny565 said:
    You are probably not aware that German language pro-IS forums were firing out joyful claims of a strike within a hour of the incident.

    IS has official channels that have a track record. Only when they speak do you get certainty that they are as an organisation making a claim.

    Well, these bastards have a month or two to go unless the American-Saudi sponsored units / Turkish units / Syrian-Russians fight amongst themselves.

    Of course, nutcases who are prepared to kill themselves are difficult to control, once a "cause" as they see it is finished, their numbers will begin to come down. Until some other "cause" comes up.
    You completely fail to understand anything about IS then. They have organisational footholds in about 6 or 7 different countries outside of Syria and Iraq.

    If you have nothing useful to bring, don't bring it.
    What bullshit are you talking about at this time ? You seem to be very well informed at times like this.
    Can't even read your own posts then.

    These bastards as you call them don't have months at all. The idea that events in Iraq and Syria which you refer to will somehow crush IS is fanciful. If you paid any attention you'd know where they have set up camp & organisational infrastructure and you'd know they wont all die in Syria and Iraq, most will move on to other countries or come home.

    Secondly they are not nutters at all. People who carry out mass casualty attacks successfully tend to plan, prepare and attack. They are perfectly capable at what they see as their required duty.

    You fail to understand the enemy faced, both IS and the often forgotten Al Qaeda.
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    edited May 2017
    Sky claiming May is suspending the conservative GE campaign. The right thing to do, if true I expect the others parties will follow and do the same.
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    PendduPenddu Posts: 265
    Tim_B said:

    Floater said:

    CNN claiming male identified as suicide bomber

    The odds of it being a female are pretty long.
    I would expect it to be around evens.....
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017
    Trying to find a reputable source for TM's statement

    I can only find;

    https://twitter.com/GlobalsNewsroom

    Surely there must be something more official?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pong said:

    Trying to find a reputable source for theresa may's statement

    I can only find;

    https://twitter.com/GlobalsNewsroom

    Surely there must be something more official?

    Sky read it out loud too. Probably been issued as a statement to the media of which Global is a part of.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2017
    Pong said:

    Trying to find a reputable source for TM's statement

    I can only find;

    https://twitter.com/GlobalsNewsroom

    Surely there must be something more official?

    BBC-Live: PM's election campaign suspended
    Posted at 2:37

    A Conservative source told the Press Association that the prime minister's general election campaign was being suspended.

    Wise move, I think she's going to be rather preoccupied with Cobra.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369
    Pong said:

    Trying to find a reputable source for TM's statement

    I can only find;

    https://twitter.com/GlobalsNewsroom

    Surely there must be something more official?

    Here in Canada both Canadian and US media saying it is a terrorist attack and likening it to the Irish troubles
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    rcs1000 said:

    Could the GE be suspended / delayed?

    No.
    It could couldn't it? It won't, but the Civil Contingencies Act gives the power to do that I thought?
    Remember the 2001 GE got delayed due to Foot & Mouth
    That took an Act of Parliament from memory. Parliament's been dissolved so there can't be a new Act of Parliament so it would require either an existing Act like the Civil Contingencies Act or some other power to be invoked.
    It was the local elections that were postponed (from a procedural point of view). The GE had not been called at the time that the decision to postpone was taken, so Parliament was simply not dissolved until later.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369

    Pong said:

    Trying to find a reputable source for TM's statement

    I can only find;

    https://twitter.com/GlobalsNewsroom

    Surely there must be something more official?

    BBC-Live: PM's election campaign suspended
    Posted at 2:37

    A Conservative source told the Press Association that the prime minister's general election campaign was being suspended.

    Wise move, I think she's going to be rather preoccupied with Cobra.
    And it would be impossible to campaign in these circumstances
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    marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    There are some quite sickening twitter posts from some people saying how convienet this is for Theresa May - 19 people some of them children have just been killed fro goodness sake
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369
    marke09 said:

    There are some quite sickening twitter posts from some people saying how convienet this is for Theresa May - 19 people some of them children have just been killed fro goodness sake

    Trolling is sickening and the result of the misuse of twitter/facebook.

    Best to ignore the trash who do this
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Remember if this is Islamic extremism, do not necessarily bet the entire house on IS.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    Pong said:

    Trying to find a reputable source for TM's statement

    I can only find;

    https://twitter.com/GlobalsNewsroom

    Surely there must be something more official?

    BBC-Live: PM's election campaign suspended
    Posted at 2:37

    A Conservative source told the Press Association that the prime minister's general election campaign was being suspended.

    Wise move, I think she's going to be rather preoccupied with Cobra.
    And it would be impossible to campaign in these circumstances
    Getting the tone right in the coming days will also be important.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369

    Pong said:

    Trying to find a reputable source for TM's statement

    I can only find;

    https://twitter.com/GlobalsNewsroom

    Surely there must be something more official?

    BBC-Live: PM's election campaign suspended
    Posted at 2:37

    A Conservative source told the Press Association that the prime minister's general election campaign was being suspended.

    Wise move, I think she's going to be rather preoccupied with Cobra.
    And it would be impossible to campaign in these circumstances
    Getting the tone right in the coming days will also be important.
    Agreed
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    Pong said:

    Trying to find a reputable source for TM's statement

    I can only find;

    https://twitter.com/GlobalsNewsroom

    Surely there must be something more official?

    BBC-Live: PM's election campaign suspended
    Posted at 2:37

    A Conservative source told the Press Association that the prime minister's general election campaign was being suspended.

    Wise move, I think she's going to be rather preoccupied with Cobra.
    And it would be impossible to campaign in these circumstances
    Getting the tone right in the coming days will also be important.
    There are bound to be idiots on Twitter (some have shown their hand already) who claim this proves candidate X is unfit for office. Unless it is the action of a terrorist group one of the candidates has historically been seen as sympathetic to (unlikely, given MO) this shouldn't have a major impact - again unless like the 2004 Madrid bombings one of the parties seeks to make political capital out of it and gets it completely wrong. With a bit of luck our politicians will be too sensible.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    rcs1000 said:

    Could the GE be suspended / delayed?

    No.
    It could couldn't it? It won't, but the Civil Contingencies Act gives the power to do that I thought?
    Remember the 2001 GE got delayed due to Foot & Mouth
    That took an Act of Parliament from memory. Parliament's been dissolved so there can't be a new Act of Parliament so it would require either an existing Act like the Civil Contingencies Act or some other power to be invoked.
    It was the local elections that were postponed (from a procedural point of view). The GE had not been called at the time that the decision to postpone was taken, so Parliament was simply not dissolved until later.
    Could the Queen summon a new Parliament to meet immediately. Is it stated in law that the Commons must be elected? Interesting hypothetical.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    RIP to all the victims. A truly heinous crime.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369

    Pong said:

    Trying to find a reputable source for TM's statement

    I can only find;

    https://twitter.com/GlobalsNewsroom

    Surely there must be something more official?

    BBC-Live: PM's election campaign suspended
    Posted at 2:37

    A Conservative source told the Press Association that the prime minister's general election campaign was being suspended.

    Wise move, I think she's going to be rather preoccupied with Cobra.
    And it would be impossible to campaign in these circumstances
    Getting the tone right in the coming days will also be important.
    There are bound to be idiots on Twitter (some have shown their hand already) who claim this proves candidate X is unfit for office. Unless it is the action of a terrorist group one of the candidates has historically been seen as sympathetic to (unlikely, given MO) this shouldn't have a major impact - again unless like the 2004 Madrid bombings one of the parties seeks to make political capital out of it and gets it completely wrong. With a bit of luck our politicians will be too sensible.
    I expect the narrative to change to security and keeping people safe.

    I would expect there to be a period of respect
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Pong said:

    Trying to find a reputable source for TM's statement

    I can only find;

    https://twitter.com/GlobalsNewsroom

    Surely there must be something more official?

    BBC-Live: PM's election campaign suspended
    Posted at 2:37

    A Conservative source told the Press Association that the prime minister's general election campaign was being suspended.

    Wise move, I think she's going to be rather preoccupied with Cobra.
    And it would be impossible to campaign in these circumstances
    Getting the tone right in the coming days will also be important.
    There are bound to be idiots on Twitter (some have shown their hand already) who claim this proves candidate X is unfit for office. Unless it is the action of a terrorist group one of the candidates has historically been seen as sympathetic to (unlikely, given MO) this shouldn't have a major impact - again unless like the 2004 Madrid bombings one of the parties seeks to make political capital out of it and gets it completely wrong. With a bit of luck our politicians will be too sensible.
    I expect the narrative to change to security and keeping people safe.

    I would expect there to be a period of respect
    The campaign probably won't get started again proper until the weekend.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Could the GE be suspended / delayed?

    No.
    It could couldn't it? It won't, but the Civil Contingencies Act gives the power to do that I thought?
    Remember the 2001 GE got delayed due to Foot & Mouth
    That took an Act of Parliament from memory. Parliament's been dissolved so there can't be a new Act of Parliament so it would require either an existing Act like the Civil Contingencies Act or some other power to be invoked.
    It was the local elections that were postponed (from a procedural point of view). The GE had not been called at the time that the decision to postpone was taken, so Parliament was simply not dissolved until later.
    Could the Queen summon a new Parliament to meet immediately. Is it stated in law that the Commons must be elected? Interesting hypothetical.
    I don't know the constitutional position on this - but there is no way that we could cancel the election at this stage. It would look like giving in to terrorism and no-one is going to appear to do that.

    Yes, it is an interesting hypothetical (and one I actually considered a couple of weeks ago without reaching any conclusions) but the political reality is such that we have to proceed.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Could the GE be suspended / delayed?

    No.
    It could couldn't it? It won't, but the Civil Contingencies Act gives the power to do that I thought?
    Remember the 2001 GE got delayed due to Foot & Mouth
    That took an Act of Parliament from memory. Parliament's been dissolved so there can't be a new Act of Parliament so it would require either an existing Act like the Civil Contingencies Act or some other power to be invoked.
    It was the local elections that were postponed (from a procedural point of view). The GE had not been called at the time that the decision to postpone was taken, so Parliament was simply not dissolved until later.
    Could the Queen summon a new Parliament to meet immediately. Is it stated in law that the Commons must be elected? Interesting hypothetical.
    I don't know the constitutional position on this - but there is no way that we could cancel the election at this stage. It would look like giving in to terrorism and no-one is going to appear to do that.

    Yes, it is an interesting hypothetical (and one I actually considered a couple of weeks ago without reaching any conclusions) but the political reality is such that we have to proceed.
    Absolutely agree, was only interested in the hypothetical.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017
    Specifically targeting children coming out of a teeny gig is f*cking outrageous.

    The justification will be "you kill our kids in Yemen/Syria/Iraq/Palestine/Chechnya/Belfast/etc, so we kill yours"

    F*cking zombies.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts

    g'night.

    RIP, kids.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Could the GE be suspended / delayed?

    No.
    It could couldn't it? It won't, but the Civil Contingencies Act gives the power to do that I thought?
    Remember the 2001 GE got delayed due to Foot & Mouth
    That took an Act of Parliament from memory. Parliament's been dissolved so there can't be a new Act of Parliament so it would require either an existing Act like the Civil Contingencies Act or some other power to be invoked.
    It was the local elections that were postponed (from a procedural point of view). The GE had not been called at the time that the decision to postpone was taken, so Parliament was simply not dissolved until later.
    Could the Queen summon a new Parliament to meet immediately. Is it stated in law that the Commons must be elected? Interesting hypothetical.
    You can't be a member of the Commons without being elected, but the Queen has the power to appoint whoever she wishes to be her Ministers, and the Ministers and Privy Council have quite considerable powers.

    For understandable reasons I expect that the Commons would resist the Queen seeking to appoint its members.

    Anyway, keep calm and carry on.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Could the GE be suspended / delayed?

    No.
    It could couldn't it? It won't, but the Civil Contingencies Act gives the power to do that I thought?
    Remember the 2001 GE got delayed due to Foot & Mouth
    That took an Act of Parliament from memory. Parliament's been dissolved so there can't be a new Act of Parliament so it would require either an existing Act like the Civil Contingencies Act or some other power to be invoked.
    It was the local elections that were postponed (from a procedural point of view). The GE had not been called at the time that the decision to postpone was taken, so Parliament was simply not dissolved until later.
    Could the Queen summon a new Parliament to meet immediately. Is it stated in law that the Commons must be elected? Interesting hypothetical.
    You can't be a member of the Commons without being elected, but the Queen has the power to appoint whoever she wishes to be her Ministers, and the Ministers and Privy Council have quite considerable powers.

    For understandable reasons I expect that the Commons would resist the Queen seeking to appoint its members.

    Anyway, keep calm and carry on.
    Interesting, so once Parliament is dissolved there is no mechanism of summoning another without an election? You are right about the Privy Council, and executive powers.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    RobD said:

    Interesting, so once Parliament is dissolved there is no mechanism of summoning another without an election? You are right about the Privy Council, and executive powers.

    The Netflix show "Designated Survivor" shows what the situation is in the US, where Governors can appoint new Senators, but there has to be an election to replace the House of Representatives, and thus be able to pass a budget. No elected representatives, no budget.

    That's why the English Civil War was fought and the US inherited that from us.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    Horrible news from Manchester. Love and prayers for the victims and their families. It's very hard to be aeay from home when you wake up to news like this. You just want to be close to the ones you love. I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like for those affected.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    The worst thing is seeing the tweets from people still looking for friends/family.
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    Could the GE be suspended / delayed?

    In principle, yes. If a period of official national mourning were declared, the election clock would be effectively suspended for the duration since that period wouldn't be counted when determining the days since the election writ was moved. This came up a while back, when discussing what would happen if the Queen died in the middle of an election campaign.

    Officially declaring a period of national mourning over this tragic incident seems highly unlikely, but it is a theoretical possibility,
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    The BBC are talking live to a woman trying to find her daughter. Deeply distressing - but I am not sure it was the right editorial decision to put that distress on air live like that.

    The presenter is asking inane questions and really make it worse.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    The BBC are talking live to a woman trying to find her daughter. Deeply distressing - but I am not sure it was the right editorial decision to put that distress on air live like that.

    The presenter is asking inane questions and really make it worse.

    Very distressing :(
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977

    Could the GE be suspended / delayed?

    In principle, yes. If a period of official national mourning were declared, the election clock would be effectively suspended for the duration since that period wouldn't be counted when determining the days since the election writ was moved. This came up a while back, when discussing what would happen if the Queen died in the middle of an election campaign.

    Officially declaring a period of national mourning over this tragic incident seems highly unlikely, but it is a theoretical possibility,

    The election has to go ahead. Democracy cannot concede to terror. The vile scum who did this and who support it can be handed no kind of victory. We go on, we endure and in the end we win.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    edited May 2017

    Could the GE be suspended / delayed?

    In principle, yes. If a period of official national mourning were declared, the election clock would be effectively suspended for the duration since that period wouldn't be counted when determining the days since the election writ was moved. This came up a while back, when discussing what would happen if the Queen died in the middle of an election campaign.

    Officially declaring a period of national mourning over this tragic incident seems highly unlikely, but it is a theoretical possibility,

    The election has to go ahead. Democracy cannot concede to terror. The vile scum who did this and who support it can be handed no kind of victory. We go on, we endure and in the end we win.
    Might just have to re-watch Neil's great opening speech to This Week after the attacks in France.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,449
    Bloody hell, I went to bed just as the first reports on PB appeared - had no idea until now that so many people were killed and injured.

    Condolences to all those affected.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,392
    Christ. Went to bed last night in blissful ignorance of this.

    Our security services have had a lot of successes in stopping this kind of horror but this one has got through. My thoughts and sympathy with the victims and their families.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    This going to have a huge impact on the election. Labour are going to pay the price for offering up as our Prime Minister a guy who will be pilloried in coming days as the terrorists' friend.

    How some people's first thoughts during incidents like this can be political is beyond me.

    That your side were already nailed on to win the GE makes it even worse.
    This is a betting site. This terrible event has betting implications. Harsh, but there will be consequences of this action. And I don't see how how any of them are good for Jeremy Corbyn, being offered up as our next Prime Minister.

    But I am not placing bets, to cash in. That would seem particularly distasteful.
    PB being a betting site doesn't mean that incidents like these are a time to think about politics, especially so soon after the incident.
    Disagree, that's exactly what it means. Betting creates information, and information is useful, *especially* during events that create a fast, hard-to-scrutinize policy response.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    DavidL said:

    Christ. Went to bed last night in blissful ignorance of this.

    Our security services have had a lot of successes in stopping this kind of horror but this one has got through. My thoughts and sympathy with the victims and their families.

    What's the saying, they need to get lucky every day?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,452
    edited May 2017
    Like David, I had an early night and have just woken up to the news. Tragic and appalling. I feel for the families.

    It appears the bomber just waited outside by the exit for the concert to end, probably surrounded by ordinary people waiting for concertgoers to emerge. If they didn't act suspiciously and we had no prior intelligence it is hard to see what could have been done to stop it.

    I hope, after a suitable pause, the election resumes and that we don't allow this atrocity to deflect us from demonstrating the strength of our democracy, in a sober and mature way.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    IanB2 said:


    I hope, after a suitable pause, the election resumes and that we don't allow this atrocity to deflect us from demonstrating the strength of our democracy, in a sober and mature way.

    Sober and mature? Unlikely, I'm afraid!

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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,452
    edited May 2017

    This going to have a huge impact on the election. Labour are going to pay the price for offering up as our Prime Minister a guy who will be pilloried in coming days as the terrorists' friend.

    How some people's first thoughts during incidents like this can be political is beyond me.

    That your side were already nailed on to win the GE makes it even worse.
    This is a betting site. This terrible event has betting implications. Harsh, but there will be consequences of this action. And I don't see how how any of them are good for Jeremy Corbyn, being offered up as our next Prime Minister.

    But I am not placing bets, to cash in. That would seem particularly distasteful.
    PB being a betting site doesn't mean that incidents like these are a time to think about politics, especially so soon after the incident.
    Disagree, that's exactly what it means. Betting creates information, and information is useful, *especially* during events that create a fast, hard-to-scrutinize policy response.
    We don't want to think about Party political arguments right now, that's the point. No-one should want an election outcome stained by this event, and we can only hope that when the campaign resumes it does so where it left off.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,449
    Been to Manchester Victoria quite a few times over the last six months, and even went to the National Football Museum in March. Although I didn't realise the Arena adjoined the station so closely.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,452
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:


    I hope, after a suitable pause, the election resumes and that we don't allow this atrocity to deflect us from demonstrating the strength of our democracy, in a sober and mature way.

    Sober and mature? Unlikely, I'm afraid!

    I would hope, and indeed expect, that even the more extreme elements of our media would have sufficient respect for the victims to exercise a degree of restraint in subsequent coverage.
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    IanB2 said:

    This going to have a huge impact on the election. Labour are going to pay the price for offering up as our Prime Minister a guy who will be pilloried in coming days as the terrorists' friend.

    How some people's first thoughts during incidents like this can be political is beyond me.

    That your side were already nailed on to win the GE makes it even worse.
    This is a betting site. This terrible event has betting implications. Harsh, but there will be consequences of this action. And I don't see how how any of them are good for Jeremy Corbyn, being offered up as our next Prime Minister.

    But I am not placing bets, to cash in. That would seem particularly distasteful.
    PB being a betting site doesn't mean that incidents like these are a time to think about politics, especially so soon after the incident.
    Disagree, that's exactly what it means. Betting creates information, and information is useful, *especially* during events that create a fast, hard-to-scrutinize policy response.
    We don't want to think about Party political arguments right now, that's the point. No-one should want an election outcome stained by this event, and we can only hope that when the campaign resumes it does so where it left off.
    Sounds like hope in the face of experience to me. There is no way that security, already an issue in the campaign, is not going to have massively higher salience in the public mind after this event, especially given the equivocal level of condemnation for terrorism in certain quarters.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:


    I hope, after a suitable pause, the election resumes and that we don't allow this atrocity to deflect us from demonstrating the strength of our democracy, in a sober and mature way.

    Sober and mature? Unlikely, I'm afraid!

    I would hope, and indeed expect, that even the more extreme elements of our media would have sufficient respect for the victims to exercise a degree of restraint in subsequent coverage.
    Oh, I just meant in terms of normal policy arguments, not related to the attack at all.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,452

    IanB2 said:

    This going to have a huge impact on the election. Labour are going to pay the price for offering up as our Prime Minister a guy who will be pilloried in coming days as the terrorists' friend.

    How some people's first thoughts during incidents like this can be political is beyond me.

    That your side were already nailed on to win the GE makes it even worse.
    This is a betting site. This terrible event has betting implications. Harsh, but there will be consequences of this action. And I don't see how how any of them are good for Jeremy Corbyn, being offered up as our next Prime Minister.

    But I am not placing bets, to cash in. That would seem particularly distasteful.
    PB being a betting site doesn't mean that incidents like these are a time to think about politics, especially so soon after the incident.
    Disagree, that's exactly what it means. Betting creates information, and information is useful, *especially* during events that create a fast, hard-to-scrutinize policy response.
    We don't want to think about Party political arguments right now, that's the point. No-one should want an election outcome stained by this event, and we can only hope that when the campaign resumes it does so where it left off.
    Sounds like hope in the face of experience to me. There is no way that security, already an issue in the campaign, is not going to have massively higher salience in the public mind after this event, especially given the equivocal level of condemnation for terrorism in certain quarters.
    We should take our lead from the French. Security was obviously an issue in the French election, after their series of appalling incidents, but it doesn't appear to have unduly distorted the outcome and took its place alongside healthy debate on the other important issues.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,392

    IanB2 said:

    This going to have a huge impact on the election. Labour are going to pay the price for offering up as our Prime Minister a guy who will be pilloried in coming days as the terrorists' friend.

    How some people's first thoughts during incidents like this can be political is beyond me.

    That your side were already nailed on to win the GE makes it even worse.
    This is a betting site. This terrible event has betting implications. Harsh, but there will be consequences of this action. And I don't see how how any of them are good for Jeremy Corbyn, being offered up as our next Prime Minister.

    But I am not placing bets, to cash in. That would seem particularly distasteful.
    PB being a betting site doesn't mean that incidents like these are a time to think about politics, especially so soon after the incident.
    Disagree, that's exactly what it means. Betting creates information, and information is useful, *especially* during events that create a fast, hard-to-scrutinize policy response.
    We don't want to think about Party political arguments right now, that's the point. No-one should want an election outcome stained by this event, and we can only hope that when the campaign resumes it does so where it left off.
    Sounds like hope in the face of experience to me. There is no way that security, already an issue in the campaign, is not going to have massively higher salience in the public mind after this event, especially given the equivocal level of condemnation for terrorism in certain quarters.
    Indeed. And the ongoing Social Care fiasco which has dominated the last week will now fall off the agenda. May needs to be very careful about her tone but it is difficult not to see this working to her advantage.
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    This going to have a huge impact on the election. Labour are going to pay the price for offering up as our Prime Minister a guy who will be pilloried in coming days as the terrorists' friend.

    How some people's first thoughts during incidents like this can be political is beyond me.

    That your side were already nailed on to win the GE makes it even worse.
    This is a betting site. This terrible event has betting implications. Harsh, but there will be consequences of this action. And I don't see how how any of them are good for Jeremy Corbyn, being offered up as our next Prime Minister.

    But I am not placing bets, to cash in. That would seem particularly distasteful.
    PB being a betting site doesn't mean that incidents like these are a time to think about politics, especially so soon after the incident.
    Disagree, that's exactly what it means. Betting creates information, and information is useful, *especially* during events that create a fast, hard-to-scrutinize policy response.
    We don't want to think about Party political arguments right now, that's the point. No-one should want an election outcome stained by this event, and we can only hope that when the campaign resumes it does so where it left off.
    Sounds like hope in the face of experience to me. There is no way that security, already an issue in the campaign, is not going to have massively higher salience in the public mind after this event, especially given the equivocal level of condemnation for terrorism in certain quarters.
    Indeed. And the ongoing Social Care fiasco which has dominated the last week will now fall off the agenda. May needs to be very careful about her tone but it is difficult not to see this working to her advantage.
    Especially if her opponents are unable to come out and straight up condemn this disgrace in the most unabiguous and forthright terms.
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    edited May 2017
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    This going to have a huge impact on the election. Labour are going to pay the price for offering up as our Prime Minister a guy who will be pilloried in coming days as the terrorists' friend.

    How some people's first thoughts during incidents like this can be political is beyond me.

    That your side were already nailed on to win the GE makes it even worse.
    This is a betting site. This terrible event has betting implications. Harsh, but there will be consequences of this action. And I don't see how how any of them are good for Jeremy Corbyn, being offered up as our next Prime Minister.

    But I am not placing bets, to cash in. That would seem particularly distasteful.
    PB being a betting site doesn't mean that incidents like these are a time to think about politics, especially so soon after the incident.
    Disagree, that's exactly what it means. Betting creates information, and information is useful, *especially* during events that create a fast, hard-to-scrutinize policy response.
    We don't want to think about Party political arguments right now, that's the point. No-one should want an election outcome stained by this event, and we can only hope that when the campaign resumes it does so where it left off.
    Sounds like hope in the face of experience to me. There is no way that security, already an issue in the campaign, is not going to have massively higher salience in the public mind after this event, especially given the equivocal level of condemnation for terrorism in certain quarters.
    Indeed. And the ongoing Social Care fiasco which has dominated the last week will now fall off the agenda. May needs to be very careful about her tone but it is difficult not to see this working to her advantage.
    The media on the left will be praying the culprits weren't Islamic while on the right theyll be praying they are.

    They'll be a mentally ill lone wolf who's concerns and motivations we need to understand or an organised wider movement of hate that needs condemned out right.

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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited May 2017
    notme said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    This going to have a huge impact on the election. Labour are going to pay the price for offering up as our Prime Minister a guy who will be pilloried in coming days as the terrorists' friend.

    How some people's first thoughts during incidents like this can be political is beyond me.

    That your side were already nailed on to win the GE makes it even worse.
    This is a betting site. This terrible event has betting implications. Harsh, but there will be consequences of this action. And I don't see how how any of them are good for Jeremy Corbyn, being offered up as our next Prime Minister.

    But I am not placing bets, to cash in. That would seem particularly distasteful.
    PB being a betting site doesn't mean that incidents like these are a time to think about politics, especially so soon after the incident.
    Disagree, that's exactly what it means. Betting creates information, and information is useful, *especially* during events that create a fast, hard-to-scrutinize policy response.
    We don't want to think about Party political arguments right now, that's the point. No-one should want an election outcome stained by this event, and we can only hope that when the campaign resumes it does so where it left off.
    Sounds like hope in the face of experience to me. There is no way that security, already an issue in the campaign, is not going to have massively higher salience in the public mind after this event, especially given the equivocal level of condemnation for terrorism in certain quarters.
    Indeed. And the ongoing Social Care fiasco which has dominated the last week will now fall off the agenda. May needs to be very careful about her tone but it is difficult not to see this working to her advantage.
    They'll be a mentally ill lone wolf who's concerns and motivations we need to understand or an organised wider movement of hate that needs condemned out right.

    That will get settled very quickly as soon as they determine the explosive used in the device, lone wolfs for example probably dont have access to C4 ;)
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    The implications for the general election are stark.

    I expect the Prime Minister to handle this outrage in a calm and measured fashion and yes this will play into the theme of "strong and stable leadership".

    I expect Jezza to be politically eviscerated. There will be no hiding place for his equivocations on terrorism. One chink in the coming days and he is utterly done. Even if he managed to find a form of words that appear appropriate to this event, the damage from his previous statements will come back with a vengeance.

    The general election is over for Jezza, even more so than it was before.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    JackW said:

    The implications for the general election are stark.

    I expect the Prime Minister to handle this outrage in a calm and measured fashion and yes this will play into the theme of "strong and stable leadership".

    I expect Jezza to be politically eviscerated. There will be no hiding place for his equivocations on terrorism. One chink in the coming days and he is utterly done. Even if he managed to find a form of words that appear appropriate to this event, the damage from his previous statements will come back with a vengeance.

    The general election is over for Jezza, even more so than it was before.

    Yep. The election is done. Corbyn is unelectable and days like today show why.

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    saddosaddo Posts: 534
    Terrible thing to happen, all those poor parents and family members impacted by this.

    There will be an impact on the election I think. Talking with my daughters late 20 year old friend the other day, for him and his friends, the IRA were old history, something he was taught about in school. Therefore Corbyn and McDonnell's IRA support was meaningless.

    Given the last time Manchester was bombed was the IRA attacking the Armadale Centre in 1996 ithis event might just make him and others of his generation understand how disgraceful Corbyn and McDonnell were and are to support another terrorist organisation.
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