If the Dementia Tax was a Labour policy, would Tories be applauding it?
Since it isn't a tax I would certainly applaud it. Of course the point being that Labour would never suggest it in this form exactly because it isn't a tax.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
Don't forget the fact that she can't stand up straight. Terrible posture .
The way things are going I might have to stay up on election night after all.
Face it Tories, May isn't very good and she has bolloxed up her manifesto.
I'm not saying she won't win with a healthy majority, but she doesn't deserve it.
So manifesto's have to be crowd pleaser's rather than addressing the difficult problems of the day
The Labour manifesto included policies that will hit Tory voters.
The Conservative manifesto included policies that will hit Tory voters.
That's the difference.
Not sure if you were being ironic or not but there is indeed a difference. The Tories appear to be willing to hit their own supporters because it is the right thing to do to put the necessary changes in place. Labour just want to hit the Tory supporters because they are Tories and because they (Labour) are envious little shits fighting what they perceive as some strange class warfare.
I give you Aneurin Bevan, speaking in Manchester on 3rd July 1948:
No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation. Now the Tories are pouring out money in propaganda of all sorts and are hoping by this organised sustained mass suggestion to eradicate from our minds all memory of what we went through. But, I warn you young men and women, do not listen to what they are saying now. Do not listen to the seductions of Lord Woolton. He is a very good salesman. If you are selling shoddy stuff you have to be a good salesman. But I warn you they have not changed, or if they have they are slightly worse than they were.
The irony of that speech is of course that this was two years after Labour introduced bread rationing and the year before they introduced a 31% devaluation in the value of the pound which caused food prices to soar!
The way things are going I might have to stay up on election night after all.
Face it Tories, May isn't very good and she has bolloxed up her manifesto.
I'm not saying she won't win with a healthy majority, but she doesn't deserve it.
So manifesto's have to be crowd pleaser's rather than addressing the difficult problems of the day
The Labour manifesto included policies that will hit Tory voters.
The Conservative manifesto included policies that will hit Tory voters.
That's the difference.
Not sure if you were being ironic or not but there is indeed a difference. The Tories appear to be willing to hit their own supporters because it is the right thing to do to put the necessary changes in place. Labour just want to hit the Tory supporters because they are Tories and because they (Labour) are envious little shits fighting what they perceive as some strange class warfare.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
These last couple of days has had me thinking that perhaps it is Cameron >>>>>> May. Her whole policy re the internet regulation is just ridiculous IMHO.
I think one PBer rather eloquently explained earlier on how there are few options on the ballot paper for social liberals these days.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
I wish I'd believed you sooner. Reckon there must be a fair few more out there thinking the same thing.
The problem with this care proposal is that it is being perceived as inheritance tax.
Yep, that's exactly how my parents see it. My mum was calling it a 'con', and saying that it gave people no motivation to work hard and save.
But that's no different to now! There are two issues - there's the one about why should those lucky enough not to need care be able to leave a nice inheritance for their kids which bizarrely seems to get right wing Tories in a bit of a state.
Then there's the fact that if you don't accumulate assets/wealth during your lifetime the state will pay for you. My mum keeps reminding us that her uncle in Bolsover ended up in a home and that he was the only one paying as he had a house.
And it is interesting that some of those complaining about this are the same people who argue strongly for a 'meritocracy'. I don't think there's anything especially meritocratic about becoming wealthy from your parents' hard work.
Aligning policy across care in the family home with that received in a care home is perfectly logical and sensible, much like aligning national insurance contributions between the self employed and employed - but if the public don't like it or can't see it, it matters not.
My guess is that they will stick with the care policy but substantially raise the asset protection level to something closer to quarter of a million, and at least double the existing amount.
While they are at it, they need to clarify the level of the means test for pensioners winter fuel payments.
One week from now they say, 'we've listened, we've changed the levels as a result of your opinion' etc.
Or offer the possibility of regional variations in the amount to reflect 'local' conditions following a 'period of consultation'. Given the precedent that would be set with the Scottish WFA that might be a palatable 'refining' of the policy.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
We trust the people of this country.... I'm already wanting to kill them. Do WE trust you is the issue.
Who know that we face difficult choices... well yes maybe, but that's what I'm hoping you'll help with!
And demand the respect of politicians - er... We don't care - it's your job to earn our respect.
Who should be honest about how those choices should be resolved - This suggests that the debate that you and I might have is simply secondary to the real debate with grown up people who are called politcians.
Don't really care whose manifesto it is, but it is the most empty of statements.
Given we're talking about a Tory policy it should be obvious whose manifesto it appeared in.
An alternative reading is: we're trying to grasp the nettle on a difficult and unpopular issue which has been kicked into the long grass for too long because it's politically radioactive. By being upfront about this we are trusting the British public to not put their own self-interest above the greater good. None of the other parties are honest enough to admit that social care is bloody expensive and there is no magic money tree to pay for it.
The way things are going I might have to stay up on election night after all.
Face it Tories, May isn't very good and she has bolloxed up her manifesto.
I'm not saying she won't win with a healthy majority, but she doesn't deserve it.
If she wins a big majority, she clearly hasn't 'bolloxed up' her manifesto.
Corbyn is a very lucky man to be up against her. Can you imagine how far Dave would be winning by under the same circumstances. Not one coherently explained policy since she became PM. Still no clear Brexit vision. Piss poor.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
Don't forget the fact that she can't stand up straight. Terrible posture .
That is unfair and unworthy of you
I'm not being spiteful - just watch her walk. I think she needs some Alexander lessons.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
Don't forget the fact that she can't stand up straight. Terrible posture .
I cannot see her without noticing that she walks like a Marabou Stork, familiar in East Africa:
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
Cameron's handling of the so-called EU "re-negotiations" were a disastrous non-event. This resulted in him throwing away the cause to vote Remain as well as throwing away his own Premiership ..... what a waste, sad but true.
The way things are going I might have to stay up on election night after all.
Face it Tories, May isn't very good and she has bolloxed up her manifesto.
I'm not saying she won't win with a healthy majority, but she doesn't deserve it.
If she wins a big majority, she clearly hasn't 'bolloxed up' her manifesto.
She could have won big, now she'll only win healthy.
Winning healthily with a manifesto that allows them to sort out some problems that have been around for years is surely better than winning big with a manifesto that doesn't?
I haven't had a chance to look into the social care proposals to judge if it's the best solution, but at least it's a solution.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
Cameron's handling of the so-called EU "re-negotiations" were a disastrous non-event. This resulted in him throwing away the cause to vote Remain as well as throwing away his own Premiership ..... what a waste, sad but true.
Don't forget the way he thrashed the hapless Gordon Brown though
The problem with this care proposal is that it is being perceived as inheritance tax.
Yep, that's exactly how my parents see it. My mum was calling it a 'con', and saying that it gave people no motivation to work hard and save.
But that's no different to now! There are two issues - there's the one about why should those lucky enough not to need care be able to leave a nice inheritance for their kids which bizarrely seems to get right wing Tories in a bit of a state.
Then there's the fact that if you don't accumulate assets/wealth during your lifetime the state will pay for you. My mum keeps reminding us that her uncle in Bolsover ended up in a home and that he was the only one paying as he had a house.
The point being that the Tory proposals are not a tax. They are payment for a specific service if you need it. If you don't need that service you don't pay for it. In the case of Inheritance tax it is just that, a tax. It is the state taking money for the sake of it just because they can. In my mind there is a world of difference between the two.
Exactly. The starting point is that if you need to pay someone to wipe your arse there's no difference between that and paying someone to service your car or mow your lawn. The fact that the state picks up some of the tab is a bonus which has to be paid for. And I am afraid I don't believe anyone who says "I'd rather pay more tax", because they wouldn't, unless their current position is that they are rather close to having to start paying for care so that they get a free ride off younger taxpayers, who are having a hard enough time as it is.
Re the expected post-manifest launch polls, I'd be anticipating a substantial drop in the Tory lead, possibly into single figures.
I've been canvassing this afternoon and the Winter Fuel Allowance policy announcement has gone down like a bucket of cold sick. This is not because people disagree with the policy; it is because people disagree with what they think is the policy (i.e. that it's going to be scrapped).
That, combined with a failure to hit Labour over its own policy launch and, hence, people thinking more about Labour's policies (which are quite popular individually) rather than whether they're credible as a package or whether Corbyn and co could implement them - or whether they're capable of leading the country - has significantly reduced the negatives towards Labour.
CCHQ needs to up its game.
At what point do Tories start worrying? A single digit poll lead over..... Jeremy Corbyn, and John McDonnell, and Diane Abbott..... would be quite astonishingly poor.
I compared this election to feeling like the second leg of a cup tie between a mid-table premier league team and a struggling Championship side, after the big club won the first leg 5-0.
Taking that further, the Tories then knocked in sixth early in the match, when the election was called and Labour was flat-footed in its response.
However, since then, the Tories have gone negative, seeking to avoid injuries, and Labour has knocked three in through a mixture of unexpectedly effective play and Tory errors. It's half-time in the second leg and 6-3 overall.
That is not the time to panic; it is the time for the Tory manager to remind the players that they're better than their opponents man-for-man, they have better training, and they have better technical and coaching staff.
A lot of the reasons that May is going to get a bigger majority are reasons that aren't really related to Theresa May when you think about it:
- the detoxification of the Conservative brand: Achieved by Cameron and co. in opposition as well as using the LDs as their human shield in the coalition. Facilitated the gains made in the South-West that gave the Tories their majority.
- Brexit: Indirectly caused by Cameron, Brexit has unified the Conservative party, and the centre-right vote in Britain. It has meant that in effect, UKIP no longer has a purpose anymore - allowing the Tories to monopolise the right-leaning vote.
- Jeremy Corbyn: His election to the Labour leadership has meant that May has no effective opposition, making her Conservative party the only game in town.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
He's an honourable man, he knew if he lost the referendum, he should quit.
Only the terminally stupid don't realise if he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
A lot of the reasons that May is going to get a bigger majority are reasons that aren't really related to Theresa May when you think about it:
- the detoxification of the Conservative brand: Achieved by Cameron and co. in opposition as well as using the LDs as their human shield in the coalition. Facilitated the gains made in the South-West that gave the Tories their majority.
- Brexit: Indirectly caused by Cameron, Brexit has unified the Conservative party, and the centre-right vote in Britain. It has meant that in effect, UKIP no longer has a purpose anymore - allowing the Tories to monopolise the right-leaning vote.
- Jeremy Corbyn: His election to the Labour leadership has meant that May has no effective opposition, making her Conservative party the only game in town.
Hey Apocalypse! Have you even been kissed by a Tory?
Re the expected post-manifest launch polls, I'd be anticipating a substantial drop in the Tory lead, possibly into single figures.
I've been canvassing this afternoon and the Winter Fuel Allowance policy announcement has gone down like a bucket of cold sick. This is not because people disagree with the policy; it is because people disagree with what they think is the policy (i.e. that it's going to be scrapped).
That, combined with a failure to hit Labour over its own policy launch and, hence, people thinking more about Labour's policies (which are quite popular individually) rather than whether they're credible as a package or whether Corbyn and co could implement them - or whether they're capable of leading the country - has significantly reduced the negatives towards Labour.
CCHQ needs to up its game.
At what point do Tories start worrying? A single digit poll lead over..... Jeremy Corbyn, and John McDonnell, and Diane Abbott..... would be quite astonishingly poor.
I compared this election to feeling like the second leg of a cup tie between a mid-table premier league team and a struggling Championship side, after the big club won the first leg 5-0.
Taking that further, the Tories then knocked in sixth early in the match, when the election was called and Labour was flat-footed in its response.
However, since then, the Tories have gone negative, seeking to avoid injuries, and Labour has knocked three in through a mixture of unexpectedly effective play and Tory errors. It's half-time in the second leg and 6-3 overall.
That is not the time to panic; it is the time for the Tory manager to remind the players that they're better than their opponents man-for-man, they have better training, and they have better technical and coaching staff.
Don't panic; play fucking football.
I suspect they'll end up playing the man rather than the ball...!
If only the Conservatives had taken my advice and elected Priti as leader you wouldn't be despairing over May's pisspoorness. And she'd be kicking some backsides in Brussels too.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
He's an honourable man, he knew if he lost the referendum, he should quit.
Only the terminally stupid don't realise if he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
Cf the Indyref.
You mean if Cameron hadn't been so incredibly astute, Leave might have won the Referendum?
If only the Conservatives had taken my advice and elected Priti as leader you wouldn't be despairing over May's pisspoorness. And she'd be kicking some backsides in Brussels too.
Like a lot of supporters of the death penalty, she's a bit thick.
The LDs are likely to lose most of their remaining seats. A bicycle will be sufficient transport for Farron and his party (all 1 of them) post the GE.
I don't think so - more likely is that they become relevant in a tiny minority of places - tactical voting should help them hold on in most seats and perhaps take a couple more (while losing some - I expect a finish around 10 now) - but their vote share will absolutely crater in other seats - very bad for the long term.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
He's an honourable man, he knew if he lost the referendum, he should quit.
Only the terminally stupid don't realise if he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
Cf the Indyref.
You mean if Cameron hadn't been so incredibly astute, Leave might have won the Referendum?
Narrow escape. Phew.
"It's the economy, stupid"
Shrewd old Dave knew how to win a referendum or two
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
If he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
Cf the Indyref.
4 Lab leave votes in my house.
Have to say come back Cameron all is forgiven compared to Pound Shop Thatcher House Snatcher
It is now clear that May is useless. Even Corbyn looks good compared to her. He must be thanking his lucky stars.
She was still better than her opponents though. Leadsome, Gove, Boris, Crabb, and Fox were all terrible candidates for the Conservative leadership/Prime Minster.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
He's an honourable man, he knew if he lost the referendum, he should quit.
Only the terminally stupid don't realise if he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
Cf the Indyref.
Some of us did vote Leave for the added benefit of getting rid of Cameron. 'Let's wipe the smile off their faces', remember?
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
He's an honourable man, he knew if he lost the referendum, he should quit.
Only the terminally stupid don't realise if he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
Cf the Indyref.
You mean if Cameron hadn't been so incredibly astute, Leave might have won the Referendum?
Narrow escape. Phew.
Nope, he blundered a few times on it.
I suspect when he writes his memoirs he'll regret bigging up his renegotiation.
You know it was a piss poor renegotiation because how little it was mentioned during the referendum campaign by Remain.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
He's an honourable man, he knew if he lost the referendum, he should quit.
Only the terminally stupid don't realise if he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
Cf the Indyref.
Some of us did vote Leave for the added benefit of getting rid of Cameron. 'Let's wipe the smile off their faces', remember?
I'm told that tonight's YouGov poll will be out at 9.30pm BST, or very shortly thereafter.
I have a feeling that tonight's polling numbers might prove to be Labour's high water mark after a good week, not only in relation to their own manifesto, but also in benefiting from some Tory disasters. The intensity is likely to slacken from hereon in with more emphasis perhaps on the the baggage attaching to the Labour leadership. I still think Theresa May could prove to be an effective PM, but she has to prove she can be much more sure-footed especially in terms ofconsidering major policy in depth before unleashing it onto the British public.
The way things are going I might have to stay up on election night after all.
Face it Tories, May isn't very good and she has bolloxed up her manifesto.
I'm not saying she won't win with a healthy majority, but she doesn't deserve it.
So manifesto's have to be crowd pleaser's rather than addressing the difficult problems of the day
The Labour manifesto included policies that will hit Tory voters.
The Conservative manifesto included policies that will hit Tory voters.
That's the difference.
Not sure if you were being ironic or not but there is indeed a difference. The Tories appear to be willing to hit their own supporters because it is the right thing to do to put the necessary changes in place. Labour just want to hit the Tory supporters because they are Tories and because they (Labour) are envious little shits fighting what they perceive as some strange class warfare.
Watching Labour try and attack a policy which takes from the rich and gives to the average man would be hillarious if the subject wasn't so damn serious.
"Theresa May’s plan to make tens of thousands more people pay for their old-age care from their estates has triggered anger among Tory candidates, who said that the author of the proposal “should be shot”."
"Some Tories said yesterday that the policy would never be implemented in the form presented in the manifesto. One candidate standing for re-election said that it could be a disaster.
“This plan was coming up on the doorstep this morning and there has not even yet been much coverage it. It is very hard to justify, because people with a house of £300,000 could have a liability now of £200,000. I thought the campaign was just right until this yesterday”.
A former cabinet minister admitted that they were resorting to telling constituents that the plan was likely to be refined before it was put into practice, even though they had no knowledge that would happen."
It's so bad candidates are disowning it on the doorstep.
"A former cabinet minister admitted that they were resorting to telling constituents that the plan was likely to be refined before it was put into practice, even though they had no knowledge that would happen."
It's so bad candidates are disowning it on the doorstep.
You mean the Tories are saying: don't worry, this will never be implemented
whereas, we are saying: don't worry, Corbyn will never get elected.
If only the Conservatives had taken my advice and elected Priti as leader you wouldn't be despairing over May's pisspoorness. And she'd be kicking some backsides in Brussels too.
Like a lot of supporters of the death penalty, she's a bit thick.
She's come across as awful whenever I've seen her on any of the political shows. She was particularly bad on QT this week - every panellist basically came across much better than she did. Charles Moore was much more successful in making the Conservative argument than she was.
It is now clear that May is useless. Even Corbyn looks good compared to her. He must be thanking his lucky stars.
She was still better than her opponents though. Leadsome, Gove, Boris, Crabb, and Fox were all terrible candidates for the Conservative leadership/Prime Minster.
The Crabb might have been marginally better in what was, admittedly, a woefully talentless field.
The problem with this care proposal is that it is being perceived as inheritance tax.
Yep, that's exactly how my parents see it. My mum was calling it a 'con', and saying that it gave people no motivation to work hard and save.
People are completely irrational about the equity in their houses. It's possibly an even bigger national psychosis than the idea that leaving the EU is a good idea.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
Cameron's handling of the so-called EU "re-negotiations" were a disastrous non-event. This resulted in him throwing away the cause to vote Remain as well as throwing away his own Premiership ..... what a waste, sad but true.
The tragedy of people defining their entire political views via Europe meant that we lost the most capable politician in the country. And now we watch a pair of talentless, inept lightweights scrambling around like tramps on meths and have to decide who is the least incompetent.
It is now clear that May is useless. Even Corbyn looks good compared to her. He must be thanking his lucky stars.
She was still better than her opponents though. Leadsome, Gove, Boris, Crabb, and Fox were all terrible candidates for the Conservative leadership/Prime Minster.
Gove would have been fine as PM.
I think if he had made the final two, I probably would have voted for him (Sorry JohnO)
We trust the people of this country.... I'm already wanting to kill them. Do WE trust you is the issue.
Who know that we face difficult choices... well yes maybe, but that's what I'm hoping you'll help with!
And demand the respect of politicians - er... We don't care - it's your job to earn our respect.
Who should be honest about how those choices should be resolved - This suggests that the debate that you and I might have is simply secondary to the real debate with grown up people who are called politcians.
Don't really care whose manifesto it is, but it is the most empty of statements.
Given we're talking about a Tory policy it should be obvious whose manifesto it appeared in.
An alternative reading is: we're trying to grasp the nettle on a difficult and unpopular issue which has been kicked into the long grass for too long because it's politically radioactive. By being upfront about this we are trusting the British public to not put their own self-interest above the greater good. None of the other parties are honest enough to admit that social care is bloody expensive and there is no magic money tree to pay for it.
Another
Well done to one party who had the balls to raise this at manifesto time, and say that it's going to be difficult. One hopes that the public are sensible enough to see this.
The way things are going I might have to stay up on election night after all.
Face it Tories, May isn't very good and she has bolloxed up her manifesto.
I'm not saying she won't win with a healthy majority, but she doesn't deserve it.
So manifesto's have to be crowd pleaser's rather than addressing the difficult problems of the day
The Labour manifesto included policies that will hit Tory voters.
The Conservative manifesto included policies that will hit Tory voters.
That's the difference.
Not sure if you were being ironic or not but there is indeed a difference. The Tories appear to be willing to hit their own supporters because it is the right thing to do to put the necessary changes in place. Labour just want to hit the Tory supporters because they are Tories and because they (Labour) are envious little shits fighting what they perceive as some strange class warfare.
Watching Labour try and attack a policy which takes from the rich and gives to the average man would be hillarious if the subject wasn't so damn serious.
Labour "attacking" is basically intended to keep the issue alive.
Theresa May has launched a North Korean missile. It has been launched but we do not where it will hit !
We trust the people of this country.... I'm already wanting to kill them. Do WE trust you is the issue.
Who know that we face difficult choices... well yes maybe, but that's what I'm hoping you'll help with!
And demand the respect of politicians - er... We don't care - it's your job to earn our respect.
Who should be honest about how those choices should be resolved - This suggests that the debate that you and I might have is simply secondary to the real debate with grown up people who are called politcians.
Don't really care whose manifesto it is, but it is the most empty of statements.
Given we're talking about a Tory policy it should be obvious whose manifesto it appeared in.
An alternative reading is: we're trying to grasp the nettle on a difficult and unpopular issue which has been kicked into the long grass for too long because it's politically radioactive. By being upfront about this we are trusting the British public to not put their own self-interest above the greater good. None of the other parties are honest enough to admit that social care is bloody expensive and there is no magic money tree to pay for it.
Another
Well done to one party who had the balls to raise this at manifesto time, and say that it's going to be difficult.
Only because, at the time it went to print, you guys thought, you were leading by 20 points.
I'm told that tonight's YouGov poll will be out at 9.30pm BST, or very shortly thereafter.
I have a feeling that tonight's polling numbers might prove to be Labour's high water mark after a good week, not only in relation to their own manifesto, but also in benefiting from some Tory disasters. The intensity is likely to slacken from hereon in with more emphasis perhaps on the the baggage attaching to the Labour leadership. I still think Theresa May could prove to be an effective PM, but she has to prove she can be much more sure-footed especially in terms ofconsidering major policy in depth before unleashing it onto the British public.
I think 'Don't Knows, Won't Votes' might have a good evening.
"This is a Conservative Prime Minister sanctioning a socialist attack on private property ownership, singling out people who have bought property, from those who rented or had the benefit of housing allowances. If anything were an attack on independence, aspiration and thrift it is this."
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
He's an honourable man, he knew if he lost the referendum, he should quit.
Only the terminally stupid don't realise if he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
Cf the Indyref.
I don't know which definition of 'honourable' extends to 'deliberately lying'. He could always have maintained a 'diplomatic silence'. Besides, if only the 'terminally stupid' didn't know he would resign then what was the point of lying...?
It is now clear that May is useless. Even Corbyn looks good compared to her. He must be thanking his lucky stars.
She was still better than her opponents though. Leadsome, Gove, Boris, Crabb, and Fox were all terrible candidates for the Conservative leadership/Prime Minster.
The Crabb might have been marginally better in what was, admittedly, a woefully talentless field.
"This is a Conservative Prime Minister sanctioning a socialist attack on private property ownership, singling out people who have bought property, from those who rented or had the benefit of housing allowances. If anything were an attack on independence, aspiration and thrift it is this."
It is now clear that May is useless. Even Corbyn looks good compared to her. He must be thanking his lucky stars.
She was still better than her opponents though. Leadsome, Gove, Boris, Crabb, and Fox were all terrible candidates for the Conservative leadership/Prime Minster.
Gove would have been fine as PM.
I think if he had made the final two, I probably would have voted for him (Sorry JohnO)
Gove is a walking ideologue and yet another one who worships Blair.
If I had to sum up in two words why I believe the Tories will win this GE with a majority of at least 100 seats, I would say (i) Brexit and (ii) McDonnell.
It is now clear that May is useless. Even Corbyn looks good compared to her. He must be thanking his lucky stars.
She was still better than her opponents though. Leadsome, Gove, Boris, Crabb, and Fox were all terrible candidates for the Conservative leadership/Prime Minster.
The Crabb might have been marginally better in what was, admittedly, a woefully talentless field.
It is now clear that May is useless. Even Corbyn looks good compared to her. He must be thanking his lucky stars.
She was still better than her opponents though. Leadsome, Gove, Boris, Crabb, and Fox were all terrible candidates for the Conservative leadership/Prime Minster.
Gove would have been fine as PM.
I think if he had made the final two, I probably would have voted for him (Sorry JohnO)
Gove is a walking ideologue and yet another one who worships Blair.
Gove would have been a disaster. He an even more worse example of the dangers of the journalist-politician than Boris Johnson. Ken Clarke's assessment of him in the clip where he called May a 'bloody difficult woman' was absolutely devastating.
It is now clear that May is useless. Even Corbyn looks good compared to her. He must be thanking his lucky stars.
She was still better than her opponents though. Leadsome, Gove, Boris, Crabb, and Fox were all terrible candidates for the Conservative leadership/Prime Minster.
Gove would have been fine as PM.
I think if he had made the final two, I probably would have voted for him (Sorry JohnO)
Gove is a walking ideologue and yet another one who worships Blair.
He's a free market Thatcherite, and social liberal.
I'd be happy with that.
Plus had he become PM, he'd have kept Osborne as Chancellor.
"This is a Conservative Prime Minister sanctioning a socialist attack on private property ownership, singling out people who have bought property, from those who rented or had the benefit of housing allowances. If anything were an attack on independence, aspiration and thrift it is this."
Someone please call 999. I could laugh to death !
Hah! Yet these are exactly the kind of small c conservative voters, rather than neo-liberal metropolitan elite types such as myself who Theresa May was supposed to be winning over in droves at this election.
Regardless of the small print, this looks to the average "I work hard and save every penny I earn so my kids can have a better life" voter like a tax on aspiration and a tax on demented old grannies.
It's an own goal, there's no other way to spin it.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
He's an honourable man, he knew if he lost the referendum, he should quit.
Only the terminally stupid don't realise if he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
Cf the Indyref.
Some of us did vote Leave for the added benefit of getting rid of Cameron. 'Let's wipe the smile off their faces', remember?
It is now clear that May is useless. Even Corbyn looks good compared to her. He must be thanking his lucky stars.
This is borne out by the leadership ratings, no doubt?
I would like to see the ratings next week.
I suppose there could be an interesting spiral here; May is perceived to handled social care badly so her leadership ratings fall so people question her approach to Brexit and her ratings fall further. This is the potential problem with 'selling' TMay rather than the party.
I support this policy, but it has clearly gone down like a turd in a swimming pool.
It is particularly poorly timed to dominate the campaign at the exact time postal votes (mostly elderly) are returned.
It does not bode well for Brexit negotiations, when she has home truths to sell to the British public, and if she backtracks then the untrustworthy meme dominates the news.
Simply inept, and tbe principal reason is that she is so certain of her rectitude that she does not listen to others.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
He's an honourable man, he knew if he lost the referendum, he should quit.
Only the terminally stupid don't realise if he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
Cf the Indyref.
I don't know which definition of 'honourable' extends to 'deliberately lying'. He could always have maintained a 'diplomatic silence'. Besides, if only the 'terminally stupid' didn't know he would resign then what was the point of lying...?
The large amount of terminally stupid Labour and Lib Dem voters?
The problem with this care proposal is that it is being perceived as inheritance tax.
Yep, that's exactly how my parents see it. My mum was calling it a 'con', and saying that it gave people no motivation to work hard and save.
People are completely irrational about the equity in their houses. It's possibly an even bigger national psychosis than the idea that leaving the EU is a good idea.
My father said on the phone he is not voting because of it.He is a conservative and when he worked was a house builder.As a child we moved house each year to avoid capital gains tax as it was our residence.I wonder if it will effect turnout for some.
It is now clear that May is useless. Even Corbyn looks good compared to her. He must be thanking his lucky stars.
She was still better than her opponents though. Leadsome, Gove, Boris, Crabb, and Fox were all terrible candidates for the Conservative leadership/Prime Minster.
Gove would have been fine as PM.
I think if he had made the final two, I probably would have voted for him (Sorry JohnO)
Gove is a walking ideologue and yet another one who worships Blair.
Gove would have been a disaster. He an even more worse example of the dangers of the journalist-politician than Boris Johnson. Ken Clarke's assessment of him in the clip where he called May a 'bloody difficult woman' was absolutely devastating.
If a serial waste of space and anti-democrat like Clarke was against him that is another excellent reason to be in favour of Gove.
Will the PB Tories finally admit that TMay is crap? She is politically hapless, dull, wooden and very uninspiring. David Cameron is in a different league to her.
I've been pointing this out since last July.
And yet she is on course to get a far bigger majority than Cameron ever achieved. The man who so politically inept he managed to force himself into a position where he had to resign entirely because of his own failings.
And after he explicitly promised that he wouldn't.
He's an honourable man, he knew if he lost the referendum, he should quit.
Only the terminally stupid don't realise if he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
Cf the Indyref.
I don't know which definition of 'honourable' extends to 'deliberately lying'. He could always have maintained a 'diplomatic silence'. Besides, if only the 'terminally stupid' didn't know he would resign then what was the point of lying...?
The large amount of terminally stupid Labour and Lib Dem voters?
It is now clear that May is useless. Even Corbyn looks good compared to her. He must be thanking his lucky stars.
She was still better than her opponents though. Leadsome, Gove, Boris, Crabb, and Fox were all terrible candidates for the Conservative leadership/Prime Minster.
The Crabb might have been marginally better in what was, admittedly, a woefully talentless field.
Comments
hmmm
Also slightly confused - put Sky news on and expect wall to wall wailing re the tory manifesto but the reality is somewhat different.
No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation. Now the Tories are pouring out money in propaganda of all sorts and are hoping by this organised sustained mass suggestion to eradicate from our minds all memory of what we went through. But, I warn you young men and women, do not listen to what they are saying now. Do not listen to the seductions of Lord Woolton. He is a very good salesman. If you are selling shoddy stuff you have to be a good salesman. But I warn you they have not changed, or if they have they are slightly worse than they were.
The irony of that speech is of course that this was two years after Labour introduced bread rationing and the year before they introduced a 31% devaluation in the value of the pound which caused food prices to soar!
https://twitter.com/bornconsumedie/status/865287090434650113/photo/1
I think one PBer rather eloquently explained earlier on how there are few options on the ballot paper for social liberals these days.
An alternative reading is: we're trying to grasp the nettle on a difficult and unpopular issue which has been kicked into the long grass for too long because it's politically radioactive. By being upfront about this we are trusting the British public to not put their own self-interest above the greater good. None of the other parties are honest enough to admit that social care is bloody expensive and there is no magic money tree to pay for it.
Still, one thing Labour doesn't have to worry about now as donations from non unions have dried up.
The unions own your arses now.
The Labour party is basically Len's bitch and the manifesto shows it.
https://youtu.be/85TQpVIgp_U
I haven't had a chance to look into the social care proposals to judge if it's the best solution, but at least it's a solution.
"only" LOOOL
Bless
Taking that further, the Tories then knocked in sixth early in the match, when the election was called and Labour was flat-footed in its response.
However, since then, the Tories have gone negative, seeking to avoid injuries, and Labour has knocked three in through a mixture of unexpectedly effective play and Tory errors. It's half-time in the second leg and 6-3 overall.
That is not the time to panic; it is the time for the Tory manager to remind the players that they're better than their opponents man-for-man, they have better training, and they have better technical and coaching staff.
Don't panic; play fucking football.
- the detoxification of the Conservative brand: Achieved by Cameron and co. in opposition as well as using the LDs as their human shield in the coalition. Facilitated the gains made in the South-West that gave the Tories their majority.
- Brexit: Indirectly caused by Cameron, Brexit has unified the Conservative party, and the centre-right vote in Britain. It has meant that in effect, UKIP no longer has a purpose anymore - allowing the Tories to monopolise the right-leaning vote.
- Jeremy Corbyn: His election to the Labour leadership has meant that May has no effective opposition, making her Conservative party the only game in town.
Only the terminally stupid don't realise if he had said 'I'll quit if I lose the referendum' it might have encouraged non Tories to vote Leave to topple Cameron.
Cf the Indyref.
Mwah!
The earnings pledge of "60% of the median" will mean bugger all to most people including me. Terrible messaging.
https://twitter.com/PamDuncanUK/status/865945239575568384
The only difference is the building the sufferer is housed in.
Narrow escape. Phew.
For example watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DrsVhzbLzU&t=36s
Shrewd old Dave knew how to win a referendum or two
But not three!
Have to say come back Cameron all is forgiven compared to Pound Shop Thatcher House Snatcher
I suspect when he writes his memoirs he'll regret bigging up his renegotiation.
You know it was a piss poor renegotiation because how little it was mentioned during the referendum campaign by Remain.
I still think Theresa May could prove to be an effective PM, but she has to prove she can be much more sure-footed especially in terms ofconsidering major policy in depth before unleashing it onto the British public.
It's so bad candidates are disowning it on the doorstep.
You mean the Tories are saying: don't worry, this will never be implemented
whereas, we are saying: don't worry, Corbyn will never get elected.
I think if he had made the final two, I probably would have voted for him (Sorry JohnO)
Well done to one party who had the balls to raise this at manifesto time, and say that it's going to be difficult. One hopes that the public are sensible enough to see this.
Theresa May has launched a North Korean missile. It has been launched but we do not where it will hit !
...
Newt: Timmy, they've been gone a long time.
Timmy: It'll be okay, Newt. Mrs May knows what she's doing.
"Tory Leader Theresa May,
Comes to take Gran's house away"?
I could be persuaded that WFA is too generous.
To limit the latter to only 10% of Pensioners in receipt of pension credit guaranteed is a bit harsh though.
The Pound Shop Thatcher House Snatcher policy is just WRONG WRONG WRONG.
http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/kathy-gyngell-mays-socialist-care-plan-attack-thrift-family/
"This is a Conservative Prime Minister sanctioning a socialist attack on private property ownership, singling out people who have bought property, from those who rented or had the benefit of housing allowances. If anything were an attack on independence, aspiration and thrift it is this."
I'd hate to see what people were like if it was any narrower.
I'd be happy with that.
Plus had he become PM, he'd have kept Osborne as Chancellor.
Regardless of the small print, this looks to the average "I work hard and save every penny I earn so my kids can have a better life" voter like a tax on aspiration and a tax on demented old grannies.
It's an own goal, there's no other way to spin it.
It is particularly poorly timed to dominate the campaign at the exact time postal votes (mostly elderly) are returned.
It does not bode well for Brexit negotiations, when she has home truths to sell to the British public, and if she backtracks then the untrustworthy meme dominates the news.
Simply inept, and tbe principal reason is that she is so certain of her rectitude that she does not listen to others.
Hubris followed by Nemesis.