Have they answered the question about where they are going to find the million workers to fill the million jobs created in the £250b national infrastructure plan?
GO borrowed more than all Labour Chancellors combined #GOGenius
Go find many good words I have said about GO....Even if you read all 21,000 of my posts, you will still really struggle.
TFL has the second worse record on strikes of any rail network in the UK of recent times.
I have no problem with nationalisation of the railways if it is done in a workable way, but it requires people to stop thinking that it will be simple, shit money and solve all our issues. The reason rail use has skyrocketed isn't because it was always going to, it is because the private firms made the trains usable again and would going back to the old British Rail replicate that? Or do we have an arms length body to run it and if so are the unions going to play ball as they are the biggest stumbling block to all of this, they do not have the working relationship with the TOC's that the unions do in France or Holland. It is adversarial.
Arriva run trains on the Overground for TfL, a public body. It's no different in that respect to any other contractor delivering services for the public sector. Vast building companies deliver projects for the NHS. That doesn't mean the NHS is in the private sector.
.....but that means all TOC's are publicly run as they are franchised by the DfT.
TFL has the second worse record on strikes of any rail network in the UK of recent times.
I have no problem with nationalisation of the railways if it is done in a workable way, but it requires people to stop thinking that it will be simple, shit money and solve all our issues. The reason rail use has skyrocketed isn't because it was always going to, it is because the private firms made the trains usable again and would going back to the old British Rail replicate that? Or do we have an arms length body to run it and if so are the unions going to play ball as they are the biggest stumbling block to all of this, they do not have the working relationship with the TOC's that the unions do in France or Holland. It is adversarial.
Arriva run trains on the Overground for TfL, a public body. It's no different in that respect to any other contractor delivering services for the public sector. Vast building companies deliver projects for the NHS. That doesn't mean the NHS is in the private sector.
.....but that means all TOC's are publicly run as they are franchised by the DfT.
Wrong. Overground is a concession not a franchise - it is run exactly to the specifications of TfL.
Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.
No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.
Privatisation is far from universally perceived to have been a success. Blair made the mistake of not even trying to reverse some of the sell offs of the Thatcher-Major years. Renationalizing the Railways & the Water companies would have been popular in 1997 but he appeared determined to accept the Thatcherite settlement and in some ways to take it further.I believe I am correct in saying that Scottish Water remains in the public sector so such a proposal is hardly extreme.I suspect returning Royal Mail to state control would also be welcomed by many.
The Royal Mail sell off was a low point for Osborne. The taxpayer lost about a billion quid, so undervalued was the asset. Not that it should ever have been sold in the first place.
I was disappointed in myself for not signing up to buy the shares. I (perhaps foolishly) believed they would be sold off at a fair market value in order to be fair to the purchasers and the taxpayer. Oh how wrong I was....
I didn't buy them on principle. I can't see the sense in selling off the family silver for a one-off cash injection that in any case is a drop in the ocean given the size of both the national debt and deficit. That Ozzy flogged it at a cut-price car boot sale simply added insult to injury.
The Royal Mail will be worthless in a few years. Monolothic postal suppliers have no future. Ozzie saved the taxpayer BILLIONS.
Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.
No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.
Privatisation is far from universally perceived to have been a success. Blair made the mistake of not even trying to reverse some of the sell offs of the Thatcher-Major years. Renationalizing the Railways & the Water companies would have been popular in 1997 but he appeared determined to accept the Thatcherite settlement and in some ways to take it further.I believe I am correct in saying that Scottish Water remains in the public sector so such a proposal is hardly extreme.I suspect returning Royal Mail to state control would also be welcomed by many.
The Royal Mail sell off was a low point for Osborne. The taxpayer lost about a billion quid, so undervalued was the asset. Not that it should ever have been sold in the first place.
I was disappointed in myself for not signing up to buy the shares. I (perhaps foolishly) believed they would be sold off at a fair market value in order to be fair to the purchasers and the taxpayer. Oh how wrong I was....
I didn't buy them on principle. I can't see the sense in selling off the family silver for a one-off cash injection that in any case is a drop in the ocean given the size of both the national debt and deficit. That Ozzy flogged it at a cut-price car boot sale simply added insult to injury.
The Royal Mail will be worthless in a few years. Monolothic postal suppliers have no future. Ozzie saved the taxpayer BILLIONS.
Have to admit free tuition fees, nationalised rail, nationalised mail & a decent home building program do have a bit of appeal...
You live in a marginal
Eckington & Killamarsh ward is very marginal now. Which tells you all you need to know about Engel's chances in NE Derbyshire. Take a look at the Dronfield votes...
Exactly as I say you live in a marginal. A LD vote only helps ensure we move further away from free tuition fees, nationalised rail, nationalised mail & a decent home building program.
Wow, you're the first person since the last election to give me a reason to vote LD.
Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.
No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.
Privatisation is far from universally perceived to have been a success. Blair made the mistake of not even trying to reverse some of the sell offs of the Thatcher-Major years. Renationalizing the Railways & the Water companies would have been popular in 1997 but he appeared determined to accept the Thatcherite settlement and in some ways to take it further.I believe I am correct in saying that Scottish Water remains in the public sector so such a proposal is hardly extreme.I suspect returning Royal Mail to state control would also be welcomed by many.
The Royal Mail sell off was a low point for Osborne. The taxpayer lost about a billion quid, so undervalued was the asset. Not that it should ever have been sold in the first place.
I was disappointed in myself for not signing up to buy the shares. I (perhaps foolishly) believed they would be sold off at a fair market value in order to be fair to the purchasers and the taxpayer. Oh how wrong I was....
I didn't buy them on principle. I can't see the sense in selling off the family silver for a one-off cash injection that in any case is a drop in the ocean given the size of both the national debt and deficit. That Ozzy flogged it at a cut-price car boot sale simply added insult to injury.
The Royal Mail will be worthless in a few years. Monolothic postal suppliers have no future. Ozzie saved the taxpayer BILLIONS.
The business is, the real estate they own isn't.
Should have been sold with leases on all the property; now that would have been a trade.
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
London Overground TFL Rail Newcastle Metro
Eurostar and East Coast Main Line were too until the Tories sold them off for no good reason other than batshit crazy ideology - they were both well run in the public sector.
Two further franchises are nationalised to France and Germany...
Interestingly the last politician to permanently nationalise a railway to improve it was that well known Commie Boris "Red Bozza" Johnson, who brought the Abelio Greater Anglia into the Overground (Chingford and Waltham Cross to Liverpool St) because the franchisee was running it into the ground.
German company Deutsche Bahn runs Arriva Trains Wales, Chiltern, Cross Country, Grand Central, Northern Rail and the Tyne and Wear Metro, and 50% of London Overground.
Dutch company Abellio runs Greater Anglia (out to Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex), ScotRail, and 50% of Merseyrail.
For everyone who is running around saying "but how do we pay for all of this?".
Most people don't care. Particularly young, excitable idealistic voters, older nostalgic lefties and anyone who travels on Southern Rail on any given weekday and fancies a bit of that 'stick it to the man' hit the Brexiteers got from the referendum...
In any case, after the "bank rescue package" of 2008 (totalling some £500 billion) I don't think people have much faith anymore in financial 'experts' (as Gove might have said) or carefully thought-through budget analysts.
I'm really impressed with Corbyn. Good for him, genuine choice finally in this country. Still won't be voting Labour of course...
Have to admit free tuition fees, nationalised rail, nationalised mail & a decent home building program do have a bit of appeal...
You live in a marginal
Eckington & Killamarsh ward is very marginal now. Which tells you all you need to know about Engel's chances in NE Derbyshire. Take a look at the Dronfield votes...
Exactly as I say you live in a marginal. A LD vote only helps ensure we move further away from free tuition fees, nationalised rail, nationalised mail & a decent home building program.
Wow, you're the first person since the last election to give me a reason to vote LD.
I remember how shit BR was.
Do you remember how cheap BE was?
Both in terms of subsidy from the taxpayer and fairs
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
London Overground TFL Rail Newcastle Metro
Eurostar and East Coast Main Line were too until the Tories sold them off for no good reason other than batshit crazy ideology - they were both well run in the public sector.
Two further franchises are nationalised to France and Germany...
Interestingly the last politician to permanently nationalise a railway to improve it was that well known Commie Boris "Red Bozza" Johnson, who brought the Abelio Greater Anglia into the Overground (Chingford and Waltham Cross to Liverpool St) because the franchisee was running it into the ground.
The French and German governments are subsidising our transport networks. How cool is that?
Have to admit free tuition fees, nationalised rail, nationalised mail & a decent home building program do have a bit of appeal...
You live in a marginal
Eckington & Killamarsh ward is very marginal now. Which tells you all you need to know about Engel's chances in NE Derbyshire. Take a look at the Dronfield votes...
Exactly as I say you live in a marginal. A LD vote only helps ensure we move further away from free tuition fees, nationalised rail, nationalised mail & a decent home building program.
Wow, you're the first person since the last election to give me a reason to vote LD.
I remember how shit BR was.
Do you remember how cheap BE was?
Both in terms of subsidy from the taxpayer and fairs
Weird isn't it?
It's almost like people prefer prejudices to facts.
Both in terms of subsidy from the taxpayer and fairs
Do you remember how shit the trains, track, and signalling were? Or that it carried about half as many passengers as it does now?
BR was cheap because it was run down, not because it was a super efficient top-notch service.
To be fair if Corbyn gets in we will only be able to afford a 1970s standard of rail service, so if that's what you want you know what to do on June 8th.
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
London Overground TFL Rail Newcastle Metro
Eurostar and East Coast Main Line were too until the Tories sold them off for no good reason other than batshit crazy ideology - they were both well run in the public sector.
Two further franchises are nationalised to France and Germany...
Interestingly the last politician to permanently nationalise a railway to improve it was that well known Commie Boris "Red Bozza" Johnson, who brought the Abelio Greater Anglia into the Overground (Chingford and Waltham Cross to Liverpool St) because the franchisee was running it into the ground.
The French and German governments are subsidising our transport networks. How cool is that?
True. But that doesn't mean it won't happen again.
The liberal Leavers, the Thatcherites, the free-traders and the globalists advocated Brexit as a means of expanding trading ("out into the world"). Fair enough, and I would have happily settled for that. But it ignored the increasing concern regarding immigration, Islamism and a resiling from a global role and the impetus that Brexit would give to that. May embodies this trend and her concerns (eg grammar schools) speaks to people's everyday domestic concerns instead of people's global dreams. And it's going to be very successful. But it's not "Conservative" as our generation understands it.
People think "Conservative" mean what it meant in the 80's: Hayekean, deregulatory, privatising, globalists, free-trade, strong pound, strong defence. But it wasn't always that way, and I argue that it isn't any more and hasn't been for some time. May's Conservatives are paternalists, patriotic localists, interfering Christian Democrats, and she's about to win an election bigly.
So I'm wondering: is (say) an expansion of housebuilding something May will adopt?
Can't help you with housebuilding, but just to say I found your post very interesting. Thanks.
I understand this policy exchange report into JAMs was quite influential in TM's circle;
"[C1/C2] voters are a long, long way from libertarian, small-government values. 47 per cent of C1/C2 voters in our marginals sample oppose abortion, compared to 28 per cent who support it (with the rest saying do not know). C1/C2 voters also support capital punishment by 62 per cent to 33 per cent; they support Government intervention in the free market by 69 per cent to 19 per cent and 58 per cent say they want powerful Government compared to 17 per cent who say they want individual freedom; furthermore, they support greater internet regulation by 49 per cent to 15 per cent; they support the nationalisation of utilities by 60 per cent to 17 per cent and railway nationalisation by 57 per cent to 20 per cent; they support greater oversight of the media by 48 per cent to 12 per cent; and 54 per cent believe that the top rate of tax should be 50p or more compared to 17 per cent that believe the top rate of tax should be 40p or less. However, reflecting modern concepts of fairness no doubt, these voters take a more liberal line on a number of what are typically thought of (wrongly, as it turns out) contentious issues. For example, they support euthanasia by 83 per cent to 11 per cent; they support gay marriage by 69 per cent to 19 per cent." (p58)
For everyone who is running around saying "but how do we pay for all of this?".
Most people don't care. Particularly young, excitable idealistic voters, older nostalgic lefties and anyone who travels on Southern Rail on any given weekday and fancies a bit of that 'stick it to the man' hit the Brexiteers got from the referendum...
In any case, after the "bank rescue package" of 2008 (totalling some £500 billion) I don't think people have much faith anymore in financial 'experts' (as Gove might have said) or carefully thought-through budget analysts.
I'm really impressed with Corbyn. Good for him, genuine choice finally in this country. Still won't be voting Labour of course...
How much do you think the British tax payer lost by bailing out the banks?
And how popular do you think any government would have been that allowed a bank to not fulfill its obligations to depositors?
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
London Overground TFL Rail Newcastle Metro
Eurostar and East Coast Main Line were too until the Tories sold them off for no good reason other than batshit crazy ideology - they were both well run in the public sector.
Two further franchises are nationalised to France and Germany...
Interestingly the last politician to permanently nationalise a railway to improve it was that well known Commie Boris "Red Bozza" Johnson, who brought the Abelio Greater Anglia into the Overground (Chingford and Waltham Cross to Liverpool St) because the franchisee was running it into the ground.
The French and German governments are subsidising our transport networks. How cool is that?
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
London Overground TFL Rail Newcastle Metro
Eurostar and East Coast Main Line were too until the Tories sold them off for no good reason other than batshit crazy ideology - they were both well run in the public sector.
Two further franchises are nationalised to France and Germany...
Interestingly the last politician to permanently nationalise a railway to improve it was that well known Commie Boris "Red Bozza" Johnson, who brought the Abelio Greater Anglia into the Overground (Chingford and Waltham Cross to Liverpool St) because the franchisee was running it into the ground.
The French and German governments are subsidising our transport networks. How cool is that?
I think the Italian govt has just bought c2c
It's amazing. State owned entities in Europe are losing money running our transport. You couldn't make it up. As a country we probably make close to a billion from the largesse of European governments.
And yet some utter fucktards want us to turn the cash away.
Someone give me the switch model that sees Clegg in trouble ?!
I don't buy it, however I do think Lamb & Brake & Southport are in serious trouble.
It's the LDs under a different leader. I know people generally disagree, but Clegg is a substantial politician. The LD's, just at the moment, don't exist beyond him. Clegg can (and perhaps will) lose his seat because he isn't at the helm. Equally Farron might (just might) lose his seat because Clegg isn't the leader.
Yes yes I get all that but why is Clegg going to uniquely lose a 14,000 majority over the Tories.
I'm not even backing generally against Labour no hopers with that much of a margin.
Delusion has set in amongst Conservative posters on here . They think they are going to overturn any seat whatever the majority .
You said the same in 2015 when I said Yeovil was at risk...
Comments
I really am in a very niche segment of one hell of a Venn Diagram
Let me send a message to Momentum.
I remember how shit BR was.
Dutch company Abellio runs Greater Anglia (out to Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex), ScotRail, and 50% of Merseyrail.
Which franchises are nationalised to France??
Most people don't care. Particularly young, excitable idealistic voters, older nostalgic lefties and anyone who travels on Southern Rail on any given weekday and fancies a bit of that 'stick it to the man' hit the Brexiteers got from the referendum...
In any case, after the "bank rescue package" of 2008 (totalling some £500 billion) I don't think people have much faith anymore in financial 'experts' (as Gove might have said) or carefully thought-through budget analysts.
I'm really impressed with Corbyn. Good for him, genuine choice finally in this country. Still won't be voting Labour of course...
Both in terms of subsidy from the taxpayer and fairs
Weird isn't it?
It's almost like people prefer prejudices to facts.
BR was cheap because it was run down, not because it was a super efficient top-notch service.
To be fair if Corbyn gets in we will only be able to afford a 1970s standard of rail service, so if that's what you want you know what to do on June 8th.
I understand this policy exchange report into JAMs was quite influential in TM's circle;
https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/overlooked-but-decisive.pdf
"[C1/C2] voters are a long, long way from libertarian, small-government values. 47 per cent of C1/C2 voters in our marginals sample oppose abortion, compared to 28 per cent who support it (with the rest saying do not know). C1/C2 voters also support capital punishment by 62 per cent to 33 per cent; they support Government intervention in the free market by 69 per cent to 19 per cent and 58 per cent say they want powerful Government compared to 17 per cent who say they want individual freedom; furthermore, they support greater internet regulation by 49 per cent to 15 per cent; they support the nationalisation of utilities by 60 per cent to 17 per cent and railway nationalisation by 57 per cent to 20 per cent; they support greater oversight of the media by 48 per cent to 12 per cent; and 54 per cent believe that the top rate of tax should be 50p or more compared to 17 per cent that believe the top rate of tax should be 40p or less. However, reflecting modern concepts of fairness no doubt, these voters take a more liberal line on a number of what are typically thought of (wrongly, as it turns out) contentious issues. For example, they support euthanasia by 83 per cent to 11 per cent; they support gay marriage by 69 per cent to 19 per cent." (p58)
This ^ is TM's conservatism.
Out with the liberals.
And how popular do you think any government would have been that allowed a bank to not fulfill its obligations to depositors?
And yet some utter fucktards want us to turn the cash away.
NEW THREAD