politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: Local election debrief, General Election forecasting & public opinion on a Tory landslide
On this week’s PB/Polling Matters podcast Keiran is joined by Steve Fisher from Oxford University. Steve runs the elections website https://electionsetc.com/ and is part of the team that produces the General Election exit poll.
Mr. Isam, it is an interesting problem as to how coverage for minor parties works.
It's not perfect, but I'd be inclined to operate on the basis of the previous election, just because it's least susceptible to bias even if it would lead to some quirky coverage results.
Edited extra bit: Mr. D, that would perhaps make more sense.
So I take it there's no thread dedicated to the prison break of the TORY 30?
Don't get me wrong - this is far from a space filling article. But I bet Mike had a joy laden thread lined up about how 30 arrests were about to accelerate the already completely happening LibDem suuurge.
So I take it there's no thread dedicated to the prison break of the TORY 30?
Don't get me wrong - this is far from a space filling article. But I bet Mike had a joy laden thread lined up about how 30 arrests were about to accelerate the already completely happening LibDem suuurge.
There was nothing uploaded in the server in advance.
I'm sure Mike will be discussing the CPS decision in the next few days.
Does he think if we stop selling defence hardware to countries he doesn't like, they will just decide to disarm rather than just buy their planes and tanks elsewhere?
So I take it there's no thread dedicated to the prison break of the TORY 30?
Don't get me wrong - this is far from a space filling article. But I bet Mike had a joy laden thread lined up about how 30 arrests were about to accelerate the already completely happening LibDem suuurge.
We did have a discussion about shooting foxes, which seemed vaguely appropriate.
I appreciate that Keiran opens talking about how a ‘stonking’ great majority will impact things, and that Steve Fisher introduces himself by revealing where his projections have been less successful, rather than focus on his recent success in the locals, and that it appears he was right in the final outcome, but for the wrong reasons (Tories outperforming LD, rather than LDs losing votes).
What a dumb graph. Of course it is seen as a more important issue now Brexit is happening, but that 50% people voted for Brexit shows people clearly did care about it, even if it was not the main driver of their concerns previously. The summary is also a transparent attempt to avoid blaming the voters for their decision, even though ultimately it is the voters fault.
Tories up massively rather than Labour down significantly the Fisher summary – sounds critical to the GE if repeated – a big loss but no Labour collapse to 150-170 I guess.
Stopping arming the people bombing famine stricken Yemen seems an excellent policy to me.
I'll refer you to "The Whisky Priest".
I see the PB arms runners are happy to supply the Islamist dictatorship of KSA with bombs.
Some vicars daughter perhaps should study the Gospels a little more closely.
It is particularly absurd to supply the starving Yemenis with food, and similtaneously supply their oppressors with bombs. Can anyone forsee that ending well?
Does he think if we stop selling defence hardware to countries he doesn't like, they will just decide to disarm rather than just buy their planes and tanks elsewhere?
Not a clue about the real world and how it works.
If he thinks that then I agree, but it may be that he knows they will get their planes and tanks elsewhere, but that doesn't mean we should be the ones providing them, even if it costs us jobs.
Such a non-issue it attracted the largest vote in a generation.
If we had a referendum on abolishing the monarchy I would guess you'd get a similar turnout. It doesn't mean people see it as an important issue in itself.
Are they still unable to join up the dots? September 2015 below.
The demagogues who ran the Leave campaign were paying attention and knew just which buttons to push to drive people into the arms of the Brexit cult.
The UK opposition spent several years telling everyone that the housing, health and education systems could not cope with demand; that wages were being suppressed and that bosses were profiteering.
It really doesn't take much of a leap of the imagination for people to then ask, "well, why are you letting in hundreds of thousands of people every year if there isn't enough to go round?"
I think the role of the left, especially Labour, in creating the psychological environment for Brexit has been greatly underestimated.
We have a bunch of people among us who have spent years telling everyone that everything is rubbish. The voters took them at their word and have demanded change and now they are sobbing into their frappuccinos.
Remain - overwhelmingly the left and the Blairite faction - really brought this upon themselves by constantly talking the country down in the years preceding the campaign and exaggerating the problems people faced.
Apt point from Keiran that politically TMay has no reason to be conciliatory, as taking a hard line on everything has, so far, worked for her politically.
Also correct that LD hopes are being dampened daily.
Apt point from Keiran that politically TMay has no reason to be conciliatory, as taking a hard line on everything has, so far, worked for her politically.
Also correct that LD hopes are being dampened daily.
Remain - overwhelmingly the left and the Blairite faction - really brought this upon themselves by constantly talking the country down and exaggerating the problems people faced.
This gets to the heart of why I am so appalled at what is happening and dismayed by the way it is interpreted by many middle-of-the-road Tories. Too many people view Brexit in terms of a rebellion against the Blair years, and while he was responsible for a lot of mistakes, sabotaging the strategic position of the entire nation just to get your own back for having 'the right's nose rubbed in diversity' is sinking to their level of juvenile politics.
The EU, and our relationship with it, is more important than that and anyone who thinks they've got one over on 'the left' needs to wake up, and remind themselves why it was the Conservatives who always understood that this country needs to be at the heart of Europe.
I gather Angela Rayner had a car crash on Labour's education policy today, such as it is. Apparently some confusion over the detail (you would have thought she would have learned her lesson after she was shown up for not knowing most primary schools don't have adequate kitchens).
She has been tipped in the past as a possible future leader along with Rebecca Long Bailey and Cat Smith. I don't know why because they're all pretty unimpressive, but I suppose they are only being compared to Corbyn. Cat Smith will of course lose her seat, so she's out, but I'm wondering about Rayner as well. She sort of held her vote last time, but there was a huge leakage to UKIP masked by the collapse of the large Liberal Democrat vote. If 75% of UKIP switched to Blue plus Lib Dem wanderers returned home, she might just be in trouble - it wouldn't take many abstentions or direct switchers to sink her.
And if she is put out into the firing line like this so local voters see and hear their MP behaving like a innumerate moron - that isn't going to help matters.
In theory Salford and Eccles might be the same, but there the UKIP and Tory combined vote is much further back and there is a substantial Green vote as well. Sadly I think Long-Bailey will survive into the next Parliament.
This is a big problem for the tories (& especially TM) - when they're attacking Corbyn.
They're in danger of talking themselves too far into the opposite corner, where - after the election - they'll have to defend some very uncomfortable positions.
That low hanging fruit labour are dangling in front of you is poisoned.
This is a big problem for the tories (& especially TM) - when they're attacking Corbyn.
They're in danger of talking themselves too far into the opposite corner, where - after the election - they'll have to defend some very uncomfortable positions.
That low hanging fruit labour are dangling in front of you is poisoned.
They'll be happy to face that challenge, once they have a big majority.
Policies can be popular and still vote losers. It depends on its popularity among people who would let it affect their votes, and particularly those who might actually change their votes as a result of it.
Keiran wonders if fear of a big Tory majority might be the thing to help firm up the Labour vote. Given I can see no other reason for the recent uptick for Labour, I think that's a given.
Apt point from Keiran that politically TMay has no reason to be conciliatory, as taking a hard line on everything has, so far, worked for her politically.
Also correct that LD hopes are being dampened daily.
The latest polls show the Lib Dems, Greens and UKiP making little or no headway at all it seems. I’ve already written off my LD seat gain bet. – Does appear to be once again a two party race.
Are they still unable to join up the dots? September 2015 below.
The demagogues who ran the Leave campaign were paying attention and knew just which buttons to push to drive people into the arms of the Brexit cult.
The UK opposition spent several years telling everyone that the housing, health and education systems could not cope with demand; that wages were being suppressed and that bosses were profiteering.
It really doesn't take much of a leap of the imagination for people to then ask, "well, why are you letting in hundreds of thousands of people every year if there isn't enough to go round?"
I think the role of the left, especially Labour, in creating the psychological environment for Brexit has been greatly underestimated.
We have a bunch of people among us who have spent years telling everyone that everything is rubbish. The voters took them at their word and have demanded change and now they are sobbing into their frappuccinos.
Remain - overwhelmingly the left and the Blairite faction - really brought this upon themselves by constantly talking the country down in the years preceding the campaign and exaggerating the problems people faced.
So far, and with an absence of hatched chickens etc, the campaign against Brexit by the Lib Dems is making their campaign in 2015 against the government that they had been a part of look good.
So far, and with an absence of hatched chickens etc, the campaign against Brexit by the Lib Dems is making their campaign in 2015 against the government that they had been a part of look good.
Caught too early - if it as a few years from now, with a lot more evidence of things going poorly, maybe. As it is, the message isn't working, or not be enough in the places they need it too, Labour are holding up in the national polls (so the LDs are relying on them being wrong, or Lab being way down in races against them but up elsewhere), and the Tories are gaining more than them.
Half the current LD seats look at risk, some seriously. 10 would be a fortunate result, on current trends.
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
The Conservative vote in Sheffield Hallam is still sinking like a stone . In the 2016 locals in the 5 Hallam wards they polled less than 10% and came 4th behind the Greens
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
The Conservative vote in Sheffield Hallam is still sinking like a stone . In the 2016 locals in the 5 Hallam wards they polled less than 10% and came 4th behind the Greens
So Clegg's is safe. They still seem, broadly, to be standing still at best, maybe up a couple. How'd the LD surge in Cornwall go for instance? They did better in other areas, some which they hope to target at a GE, but overall it's at best patchy and at worse pretty bad.
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
The Conservative vote in Sheffield Hallam is still sinking like a stone . In the 2016 locals in the 5 Hallam wards they polled less than 10% and came 4th behind the Greens
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
The Conservative vote in Sheffield Hallam is still sinking like a stone . In the 2016 locals in the 5 Hallam wards they polled less than 10% and came 4th behind the Greens
I think you said the same about Eastleigh or some other seat prior in early 2015 shortly before it went blue.
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
The Conservative vote in Sheffield Hallam is still sinking like a stone . In the 2016 locals in the 5 Hallam wards they polled less than 10% and came 4th behind the Greens
I think you said the same about Eastleigh or some other seat prior in early 2015 shortly before it went blue.
I dont recall saying that the Lib Dems would not lose a seat to the Conservatives where they polled less than 10% . Which seat was it ? The constant ramping and talking up of Conservative prospects in no hope seats held by Labour and Lib Dems is a joy to behold . I hope you have not wasted loads of money backing your ramping ,
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
The Conservative vote in Sheffield Hallam is still sinking like a stone . In the 2016 locals in the 5 Hallam wards they polled less than 10% and came 4th behind the Greens
I think you said the same about Eastleigh or some other seat prior in early 2015 shortly before it went blue.
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
They couldn't possibly win as few as five seats surely? ..... That's equivalent to just one London Black Cab full. Martin Day, formerly of this parish, would be laughing his socks off!
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
The Conservative vote in Sheffield Hallam is still sinking like a stone . In the 2016 locals in the 5 Hallam wards they polled less than 10% and came 4th behind the Greens
So Clegg's is safe. They still seem, broadly, to be standing still at best, maybe up a couple. How'd the LD surge in Cornwall go for instance? They did better in other areas, some which they hope to target at a GE, but overall it's at best patchy and at worse pretty bad.
The Lib Dem vote was substantially up in Cornwall as of course was the Conservatives . The clear thing arising is that the Lib Dems should be favourites in North Cornwall not St Ives but DYOR .
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
They couldn't possibly win as few as five seats surely? ..... That's equivalent to just one London Black Cab full. Martin Day, formerly of this parish, would be laughing his socks off!
There'd be so much bent-over-double laughter that the Guinness Book of Records would be opening up the rules page for Synchronised Dancing to see if this qualified.
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
The Conservative vote in Sheffield Hallam is still sinking like a stone . In the 2016 locals in the 5 Hallam wards they polled less than 10% and came 4th behind the Greens
I think you said the same about Eastleigh or some other seat prior in early 2015 shortly before it went blue.
So, a bet... what price Sheffield Hallam?
LD's 1.15-3 currently.
I do not bet on odds as short as those on offer . Seems the bookies have more sense than you .
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
They couldn't possibly win as few as five seats surely? ..... That's equivalent to just one London Black Cab full. Martin Day, formerly of this parish, would be laughing his socks off!
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
The Conservative vote in Sheffield Hallam is still sinking like a stone . In the 2016 locals in the 5 Hallam wards they polled less than 10% and came 4th behind the Greens
I think you said the same about Eastleigh or some other seat prior in early 2015 shortly before it went blue.
I dont recall saying that the Lib Dems would not lose a seat to the Conservatives where they polled less than 10% . Which seat was it ? The constant ramping and talking up of Conservative prospects in no hope seats held by Labour and Lib Dems is a joy to behold . I hope you have not wasted loads of money backing your ramping ,
Probably the only money I've wasted is backing the Lib Dems to win Vauxhall.
Did you follow me when I advised PBers to buy the Tories at 378?
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
The Conservative vote in Sheffield Hallam is still sinking like a stone . In the 2016 locals in the 5 Hallam wards they polled less than 10% and came 4th behind the Greens
I think you said the same about Eastleigh or some other seat prior in early 2015 shortly before it went blue.
So, a bet... what price Sheffield Hallam?
LD's 1.15-3 currently.
I do not bet on odds as short as those on offer . Seems the bookies have more sense than you .
Pull yourself together! I said nothing to insult you.
An interesting reversal of a very fine speech, one of the great speeches of the late 20th century indeed.
Kinnock accused Liverpool Labour/Militant of starting with promises you cannot keep, pickling them into a rigid dogma and ending in grotesque chaos.
Corbyn started with grotesque chaos, has pickled that into a rigid dogma and is now providing policies he cannot keep.
Sorry but this is one policy promise he can and should keep. Selling arms to the country that is doing more to destabilise the Middle East than any other is just fecking stupid. It costs us vast sums in the long run and makes the world a far less safe place.
Well, people thought he might have been in trouble last time and he held on. But of course no Tory tactical votes this time.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
The Conservative vote in Sheffield Hallam is still sinking like a stone . In the 2016 locals in the 5 Hallam wards they polled less than 10% and came 4th behind the Greens
I think you said the same about Eastleigh or some other seat prior in early 2015 shortly before it went blue.
So, a bet... what price Sheffield Hallam?
LD's 1.15-3 currently.
I backed the Blues at 16/1 last week.
What's happened IMHO in the last few weeks is that Corbyn has come out with policies that have gone down very badly with the good people of Sheffield Hallam.
The tax rise for people over 80k and the mansion tax.
The constituency is one of the wealthiest in the country.
It also has several top bods from the Unis who aren't impressed with Corbynistas in general and I know they voted Lib Dem last time because of Clegg's supporting tuition fees.
I called Hallam right last time, I think Clegg might win, but it ain't the slam dunk people think it is.
Comments
On-topic: was actually listening to this before the new thread started.
Really enjoyed this podcast.
IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST HEAR
But I wonder. The QT special, I believe, is in York. Does that apply to the Farron-Sturgeon one too?
We've been topped and tailed!
She's certainly done everything she can to disassociate herself from him since, including ignoring his 3 line whip on the Article 50 vote.
It's not perfect, but I'd be inclined to operate on the basis of the previous election, just because it's least susceptible to bias even if it would lead to some quirky coverage results.
Edited extra bit: Mr. D, that would perhaps make more sense.
Edited extra bit: cheers, Mr. L (above).
How many jobs would this cost?
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/862355961020899328
Don't get me wrong - this is far from a space filling article. But I bet Mike had a joy laden thread lined up about how 30 arrests were about to accelerate the already completely happening LibDem suuurge.
I'm sure Mike will be discussing the CPS decision in the next few days.
Not a clue about the real world and how it works.
https://order-order.com/2017/05/10/danczuk-standing-independent/
Will he have a black ties and armband?
Kinnock accused Liverpool Labour/Militant of starting with promises you cannot keep, pickling them into a rigid dogma and ending in grotesque chaos.
Corbyn started with grotesque chaos, has pickled that into a rigid dogma and is now providing policies he cannot keep.
https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/861891826286030849
Some vicars daughter perhaps should study the Gospels a little more closely.
It is particularly absurd to supply the starving Yemenis with food, and similtaneously supply their oppressors with bombs. Can anyone forsee that ending well?
It really doesn't take much of a leap of the imagination for people to then ask, "well, why are you letting in hundreds of thousands of people every year if there isn't enough to go round?"
I think the role of the left, especially Labour, in creating the psychological environment for Brexit has been greatly underestimated.
We have a bunch of people among us who have spent years telling everyone that everything is rubbish. The voters took them at their word and have demanded change and now they are sobbing into their frappuccinos.
Remain - overwhelmingly the left and the Blairite faction - really brought this upon themselves by constantly talking the country down in the years preceding the campaign and exaggerating the problems people faced.
Also correct that LD hopes are being dampened daily.
Not something you see everyday.
The EU, and our relationship with it, is more important than that and anyone who thinks they've got one over on 'the left' needs to wake up, and remind themselves why it was the Conservatives who always understood that this country needs to be at the heart of Europe.
I gather Angela Rayner had a car crash on Labour's education policy today, such as it is. Apparently some confusion over the detail (you would have thought she would have learned her lesson after she was shown up for not knowing most primary schools don't have adequate kitchens).
She has been tipped in the past as a possible future leader along with Rebecca Long Bailey and Cat Smith. I don't know why because they're all pretty unimpressive, but I suppose they are only being compared to Corbyn. Cat Smith will of course lose her seat, so she's out, but I'm wondering about Rayner as well. She sort of held her vote last time, but there was a huge leakage to UKIP masked by the collapse of the large Liberal Democrat vote. If 75% of UKIP switched to Blue plus Lib Dem wanderers returned home, she might just be in trouble - it wouldn't take many abstentions or direct switchers to sink her.
And if she is put out into the firing line like this so local voters see and hear their MP behaving like a innumerate moron - that isn't going to help matters.
In theory Salford and Eccles might be the same, but there the UKIP and Tory combined vote is much further back and there is a substantial Green vote as well. Sadly I think Long-Bailey will survive into the next Parliament.
They're in danger of talking themselves too far into the opposite corner, where - after the election - they'll have to defend some very uncomfortable positions.
That low hanging fruit labour are dangling in front of you is poisoned.
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/862303431993765889
Zero.
As each day passes, it's looking more like LDs 5-9 rather than 10-14
STILL don't have a clue that those on the Battle-bus had to pay £50 a day for their own accommodation.... Ditto Salmond.
Half the current LD seats look at risk, some seriously. 10 would be a fortunate result, on current trends.
The constant ramping and talking up of Conservative prospects in no hope seats held by Labour and Lib Dems is a joy to behold . I hope you have not wasted loads of money backing your ramping ,
LD's 1.15-3 currently.
https://brignews.com/2017/05/10/new-councillor-embroiled-in-twitter-troll-controversy-talked-out-of-resigning-at-last-second/
Did you follow me when I advised PBers to buy the Tories at 378?
Now mid price 402!
I don't buy it, however I do think Lamb & Brake & Southport are in serious trouble.
What's happened IMHO in the last few weeks is that Corbyn has come out with policies that have gone down very badly with the good people of Sheffield Hallam.
The tax rise for people over 80k and the mansion tax.
The constituency is one of the wealthiest in the country.
It also has several top bods from the Unis who aren't impressed with Corbynistas in general and I know they voted Lib Dem last time because of Clegg's supporting tuition fees.
I called Hallam right last time, I think Clegg might win, but it ain't the slam dunk people think it is.