politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The first phone poll of the campaign has UKIP down to 4% and the Tories at 49%
This morning, in the London Evening Standard, we have the first telephone poll of the general election campaign. The figures are very much in line with the other polls that we’ve seen in the last week.
This poll is very significant for the reasons Mike gives in the header - it's not dependent on past-vote weighting (which might be very unreliable in the current political climate), and it's not an online poll. It addition, we have the leadership ratings. The fact that it confirms what the other pollsters are showing is a strong indication that the polling figures we're seeing are likely to be reliable.
Oh god we are back to margaret from Margate type questions...
Don't worry, it may well be the last time.
But never underestimate Corbyn's ability to cling on to the dying corpse he's leading.
Quite a sensible strategy, making it a bit more difficult for May to ignore the issues raised by the public and simply churn out her prepared attack lines.
This poll is very significant for the reasons Mike gives in the header - it's not dependent on past-vote weighting (which might be very unreliable in the current political climate), and it's not an online poll. It addition, we have the leadership ratings. The fact that it confirms what the other pollsters are showing is a strong indication that the polling figures we're seeing are likely to be reliable.
How do phone polls work (randomly) nowadays when younger people increasingly don't bother to have a landline and there isn't any real directory of mobile numbers?
Oh god we are back to margaret from Margate type questions...
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BookEnds Matching scenes at the beginning and end of a story, often to show how things have changed through the course of the series, or to demonstrate that they haven't changed at all.
The question all thoe who wish Lbour well are asking is why hasn't Corbyn commited seppuku?
He hasn't finished the task he was given by the blessed Margaret:
From the Downing Street confidential files, 5th May 1983:
MT: So, my friend, it is the election next month.
JC: Yes.
MT: And you have managed to complete the first stage of your task: to gain the candidature for Islington North?
JC: Yes ma'am, overwhelmingly.
MT: Good, good. (Shuffles in her handbag and checks her makeup in a mirror). I called you in here to confirm you know the mission.
JC: I am to destroy the Labour party.
MT: Not destroy. Annihilate. Eradicate.
JC: But if I may, ma'am, how? I will be just one MP.
MT: Oh, do keep up JC! They said you were one of our brightest agents!
JC: It seems an impossible task ma'am. I'll be just one MP against many.
MT: Just one male MP, you mean. It's not as though Labour will ever elect a female leader!
(laughter)
MT: No, we are playing the long game. One of my predecessors put the current Labour leader in place, and he's doing a fine job in destroying his party. It's really a sterling job. Of course I've been helped by the deal I did with the General over that bit of nonsense last year. (winks)
(more laughter)
MT: No, we have to play the long game. As good as the present incumbent is, he's not performed well enough. The Labour Party will arise, and will become a power. We have plans to stifle their popularity: perhaps a war in a far-off country, perhaps over oil? How about Iraq? Yes, that'll do. We'll wait for a really popular Labour PM to come along, and drop the WMD-bomb. Not a real bomb, obviously.
JC: Not yet, ma'am!
(more laughter)
MT: And you will, of course, be against the war. You will be a figurehead of the far-left of the party, along with agent Benn. You'll bide your time, creeping amongst the shadows, building support. We all know what the far-left are like: the more stupid, the more implausible the policy, the more they like it!
JC: I've had an idea, ma'am. How about ballistic missile submarines without any missiles?
MT: Oh I say! That's rather excellent! Perhaps you are as bright as MI5 claim.
JC: Thank you, ma'am. So I wait, for what?
MT: For the moment when a popular Labour leader mucks up - with a little help from us, of course. You can help: undermine them; vote against them: the best thing is they'll expect you to do it!
(starts to file her claws)
MT: And then, at the right moment, strike! Go for the leadership! Become leader of the Labour party and make them unelectable! Destroy them! Annihilate them in Scotland! Obliterate them in Wales! Smash them in the cities! Make another Labour government an impossibility!
JC: Very good, ma'am. But how about the alliance?
MT: (laughs). Oh don't worry, we have a plan for them as well! The thing with the dog worked well, didn't it?
Terrible numbers for UKIP. Their problem is that the Tories have seized Brexit and UKIP have yet to find a distinctive voice. The Lib Dems have the repeal-Brexit constituency sewn up, so perhaps UKIP could reinvent themselves as the champions of a more liberal, soft, cosmopolitan Brexit. I'd vote for them if they did!
Baxtering these figures, and Panelbase's for Scotland, gives the Conservatives 420 seats, and 156 for Labour.
No chance Labour gets over 150 if the Tories really do hit 49%.
Continuing my thoughts from previous thread, you can get Labour 100 - 149 seats at 2.66 on Betfair right now if you fancy it, but for me the really good odds are in the Con Majority section.
If Labour fall beneath 150 seats the Con majority is almost certainly over 175, you can currently get odds on Con Majority on Betfair:
175 - 199 at 8 200 - 224 at 11 225 - 250 at 10.5
Worth a punt? I've stuck a few quid on, just in case.
Not long ago the opposition parties were moaning that the youngsters were having to pay for austerity and rich pensioners were getting perk after perk - now those perks may be taken away its cruel and nasty
Terrible numbers for UKIP. Their problem is that the Tories have seized Brexit and UKIP have yet to find a distinctive voice. The Lib Dems have the repeal-Brexit constituency sewn up, so perhaps UKIP could reinvent themselves as the champions of a more liberal, soft, cosmopolitan Brexit. I'd vote for them if they did!
It doesn't help that UKIP is led by a hopeless knob.
You can say what you like about Farage, he wasn't hopeless.
What is difference between headline voting intention and all giving a voting intention? I notice the Tory share is 49 on headline but 45 on the all giving intention?
Baxtering these figures, and Panelbase's for Scotland, gives the Conservatives 420 seats, and 156 for Labour.
No chance Labour gets over 150 if the Tories really do hit 49%.
Continuing my thoughts from previous thread, you can get Labour 100 - 149 seats at 2.66 on Betfair right now if you fancy it, but for me the really good odds are in the Con Majority section.
If Labour fall beneath 150 seats the Con majority is almost certainly over 175, you can currently get odds on Con Majority on Betfair:
175 - 199 at 8 200 - 224 at 11 225 - 250 at 10.5
Worth a punt? I've stuck a few quid on, just in case.
I've bought Tories on the spreads at 384 and have a few hundred over various numbers.
What is difference between headline voting intention and all giving a voting intention? I notice the Tory share is 49 on headline but 45 on the all giving intention?
They whittle it down by "how likely are they to actually vote".
Terrible numbers for UKIP. Their problem is that the Tories have seized Brexit and UKIP have yet to find a distinctive voice. The Lib Dems have the repeal-Brexit constituency sewn up, so perhaps UKIP could reinvent themselves as the champions of a more liberal, soft, cosmopolitan Brexit. I'd vote for them if they did!
LOL! Pehaps the Clactonians will suggest it when the BBC next do a vox pop there.
Terrible numbers for UKIP. Their problem is that the Tories have seized Brexit and UKIP have yet to find a distinctive voice. The Lib Dems have the repeal-Brexit constituency sewn up, so perhaps UKIP could reinvent themselves as the champions of a more liberal, soft, cosmopolitan Brexit. I'd vote for them if they did!
Mr. Dawning, if UKIP were to continue as a political party after their reason for being was accomplished then they would have had to start moving into new areas last June. As I said on here at the time their best hope would have been to stake out the concerns of the working classes as their territory but, as I also predicted, they did not have the will or the ability to do so. Too late now.
Wish I were a cartoonist. I see a bedraggled, mad-eyed Zombie Corbyn determinedly dragging the mangled corpse of Labour, by the heels, into the western sunset, an oblivious expression on his face and trampling hundreds of Stop the War coalition placards as he goes.
Ipso Mori poll 26/05/1983 Con 51 Lab 29 All 19 overstated Conservatives by 8%
But all the polls are now much in line.
I cannot see any result other than a conservative majority but accept caution is needed on it's size.
However, there must be a chance of a labour wipeout and if the move is copied in Scotland and Wales the Lib Dems may not make much headway
They were all in line in 1983 average Conservative overstatement in final polls was 4%
Maybe but it is not just the polls. There is a substantial volume of evidence in media reporting across the UK and indeed labour themselves are expecting heavy losses
Yes, but the Conservatives were sometimes behind Corbyn's Labour under Dave.
These sort of leads wouldn't have happened under Dave because his team made it very clear they didn't want UKIP's votes.
So they didn't get UKIP's votes.
So we now have the re-toxification of the Tory party? Bigots and racists flocking to the blue banner then? OK...
That's your prejudice, not mine.
You have UKIP voters voting for a PM who brought in gay marriage and will maintain international aid. But, she also treats them with respect and will deliver Brexit and immigration control, so they are happy to support her.
@MrHarryCole: E Pickles goes nuclear on David Ward with his last ever questions to the Commons. Suspect Mr Ward won't be candidate by the end of the day.
Ipso Mori poll 26/05/1983 Con 51 Lab 29 All 19 overstated Conservatives by 8%
But all the polls are now much in line.
I cannot see any result other than a conservative majority but accept caution is needed on it's size.
However, there must be a chance of a labour wipeout and if the move is copied in Scotland and Wales the Lib Dems may not make much headway
They were all in line in 1983 average Conservative overstatement in final polls was 4%
Maybe but it is not just the polls. There is a substantial volume of evidence in media reporting across the UK and indeed labour themselves are expecting heavy losses
Of course Labour are heading for a big defeat but IMHO Cons at 43-45 is much more likely than 48-50
The dwindling band of SLAB supporters I know are starting to shift - in general older voters breaking for SCON - younger for SNP - no interest in LDs/Greens !!
Yes, but the Conservatives were sometimes behind Corbyn's Labour under Dave.
These sort of leads wouldn't have happened under Dave because his team made it very clear they didn't want UKIP's votes.
So they didn't get UKIP's votes.
So we now have the re-toxification of the Tory party? Bigots and racists flocking to the blue banner then? OK...
That's your prejudice, not mine.
You have UKIP voters voting for a PM who brought in gay marriage and will maintain international aid. But, she also treats them with respect and will deliver Brexit and immigration control, so they are happy to support her.
Vague words - what the f*ck does immigration control mean? What does Brexit mean? You don;t know, I don;t know, no-one knows.
@jessicaelgot: PM goes for @timfarron over selection of David Ward in Bradford East "questionable record on antisemitism."How long can LDs let this run on?
@steve_hawkes: Tim Farron looks like he'd rather go back to answering questions about gay sex
@jessicaelgot: PM goes for @timfarron over selection of David Ward in Bradford East "questionable record on antisemitism."How long can LDs let this run on?
@steve_hawkes: Tim Farron looks like he'd rather go back to answering questions about gay sex
Questions on gay sex and antisemitism are going to be a disaster for him
Terrible numbers for UKIP. Their problem is that the Tories have seized Brexit and UKIP have yet to find a distinctive voice. The Lib Dems have the repeal-Brexit constituency sewn up, so perhaps UKIP could reinvent themselves as the champions of a more liberal, soft, cosmopolitan Brexit. I'd vote for them if they did!
In reality, they just aren't going to do that.
Carswell was the voice of the "it's not about immigration, it's about sovereignty" brigade. He, and others like him, have signalled "mission accomplished" and returned to the Tories or left the scene.
It is all, in Cameron's ill-advised phrase, "fruitcakes, loonies, and closet racists" now, albeit increasingly not that well closeted. Their time may come again, although I fervently hope not, but I just don't see how it can (in practice) be as anything other than the BNP in blazers - that's the path they've chosen collectively.
Re West Bromwich East, that's my home constituency (I'm in a neighbouring Brum constituency but my mom still lives there). May be it's just history but I still can't see it not being Labour which it has been all my life. My mother cannot abide Watson but he has the profile provided by Dep Leader & is visible in the constituency despite presumably being busy with party stuff. I know Scotland 2015 and all that but they had the SNP to vote for. If UKIP had got its act together to take on Labour in its heartlands like they said they would then maybe but a direct switch of a lot of WWC voters to the Tories in what is tbh a bit of a rough place - as I say I' m not convinced. DYOR and throw this advice back in my face in June by all means.
Comments
But never underestimate Corbyn's ability to cling on to the dying corpse he's leading.
https://twitter.com/1000cuts/status/857186026896465920
https://twitter.com/chrishanretty/status/857188075616833536
Edited extra bit: almost as irksome as when I had to axe: "That's about as tempting an offer as a handjob from Edward Scissorhands."
Surely that'll make a bit of a mess of the paper?
Just begone, begone.
Matching scenes at the beginning and end of a story, often to show how things have changed through the course of the series, or to demonstrate that they haven't changed at all.
Be gone Corbyn, you are a national disgrace
From the Downing Street confidential files, 5th May 1983:
MT: So, my friend, it is the election next month.
JC: Yes.
MT: And you have managed to complete the first stage of your task: to gain the candidature for Islington North?
JC: Yes ma'am, overwhelmingly.
MT: Good, good. (Shuffles in her handbag and checks her makeup in a mirror). I called you in here to confirm you know the mission.
JC: I am to destroy the Labour party.
MT: Not destroy. Annihilate. Eradicate.
JC: But if I may, ma'am, how? I will be just one MP.
MT: Oh, do keep up JC! They said you were one of our brightest agents!
JC: It seems an impossible task ma'am. I'll be just one MP against many.
MT: Just one male MP, you mean. It's not as though Labour will ever elect a female leader!
(laughter)
MT: No, we are playing the long game. One of my predecessors put the current Labour leader in place, and he's doing a fine job in destroying his party. It's really a sterling job. Of course I've been helped by the deal I did with the General over that bit of nonsense last year. (winks)
(more laughter)
MT: No, we have to play the long game. As good as the present incumbent is, he's not performed well enough. The Labour Party will arise, and will become a power. We have plans to stifle their popularity: perhaps a war in a far-off country, perhaps over oil? How about Iraq? Yes, that'll do. We'll wait for a really popular Labour PM to come along, and drop the WMD-bomb. Not a real bomb, obviously.
JC: Not yet, ma'am!
(more laughter)
MT: And you will, of course, be against the war. You will be a figurehead of the far-left of the party, along with agent Benn. You'll bide your time, creeping amongst the shadows, building support. We all know what the far-left are like: the more stupid, the more implausible the policy, the more they like it!
JC: I've had an idea, ma'am. How about ballistic missile submarines without any missiles?
MT: Oh I say! That's rather excellent! Perhaps you are as bright as MI5 claim.
JC: Thank you, ma'am. So I wait, for what?
MT: For the moment when a popular Labour leader mucks up - with a little help from us, of course. You can help: undermine them; vote against them: the best thing is they'll expect you to do it!
(starts to file her claws)
MT: And then, at the right moment, strike! Go for the leadership! Become leader of the Labour party and make them unelectable! Destroy them! Annihilate them in Scotland! Obliterate them in Wales! Smash them in the cities! Make another Labour government an impossibility!
JC: Very good, ma'am. But how about the alliance?
MT: (laughs). Oh don't worry, we have a plan for them as well! The thing with the dog worked well, didn't it?
As soon as Corbyn gets out meeting people I'm fairly sure they'll no longer be in the mid-20s.
That note from the archives is really rather good. Thank you.
If Labour fall beneath 150 seats the Con majority is almost certainly over 175, you can currently get odds on Con Majority on Betfair:
175 - 199 at 8
200 - 224 at 11
225 - 250 at 10.5
Worth a punt? I've stuck a few quid on, just in case.
The combined Tory/UKIP is at c.45% and Sandwell voted over 66% to Leave.
If I were Tom Watson, I'd be very worried.
You can say what you like about Farage, he wasn't hopeless.
Just a knob.
I cannot see any result other than a conservative majority but accept caution is needed on it's size.
However, there must be a chance of a labour wipeout and if the move is copied in Scotland and Wales the Lib Dems may not make much headway
2015 - Lab 16.5k
UKIP 8.8k
Con 8.3k
Huge purple vote to eat into, Labour likely to decline.
Edited extra bit: anyway, must be off.
Labour are going to get hammered in middle England if these are repeated on June 8th.
Handful of seats in Birmingham, Leicester, Nottingham.
So they didn't get UKIP's votes.
Because it's Bollocks
You have UKIP voters voting for a PM who brought in gay marriage and will maintain international aid. But, she also treats them with respect and will deliver Brexit and immigration control, so they are happy to support her.
@steve_hawkes: Tim Farron looks like he'd rather go back to answering questions about gay sex
https://twitter.com/Ned_Donovan/status/857196048158216192
Carswell was the voice of the "it's not about immigration, it's about sovereignty" brigade. He, and others like him, have signalled "mission accomplished" and returned to the Tories or left the scene.
It is all, in Cameron's ill-advised phrase, "fruitcakes, loonies, and closet racists" now, albeit increasingly not that well closeted. Their time may come again, although I fervently hope not, but I just don't see how it can (in practice) be as anything other than the BNP in blazers - that's the path they've chosen collectively.
https://twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/857201292359462916