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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » No one knows anything. What to do if/when Mrs May wins today’s

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,989
    edited April 2017
    Mr. Theakes, if the negotiations were televised live and then subject to a vote by the electorate, I'd agree.

    Politicians with large poll leads don't like debates. I agree she probably wouldn't fancy them anyway, but with a 20 point lead she has nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

    A debate with Corbyn, Farron and Sturgeon would be like the Williams/Force India battle. Quite interesting, but it's only to be best of the rest.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Pulpstar, I didn't mean that as an excuse or to just shrug, only to say Defence spending isn't the problem, it's incompetent procurement.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,777
    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    You mean like Blair, Major and Thatcher?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,935
    One local topic which might trip the Tories up "up north", FRACKING. Massive local opposition, if Tories don't take NE Derbyshire this will be the reason why.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Sean_F said:

    The Times reports very extensive Yougov polling (not yet on their website) of over 7,000 people.

    Conservative Remain seats show a 2.5% swing to the Conservatives.

    Labour Remain seats show a 6.5% swing to the Conservatives.

    Labour Leave seats show a 9.5% swing to the Conservatives.

    On that basis, seats like Stalybridge & Hyde, Rother Valley, Sedgefield, Swansea West, Bassetlaw, Huddersfield, will be very much in play.

    At the other end, there may be one or two Conservative seats that could be lost to Labour, against the trend, (which happened even in 1983) such as Brighton Kemptown, or Croydon Central.

    The Tories could win a lot of seats in the Midlands if that's correct, places like Birmingham Northfield which hasn't been Conservative since 1987.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,048

    It's funny how many of the same people who complained about the 'Little Englanders' jibe are proving it with their insular views on DfID.

    Yes, some DfID programs are stupid, and should be reduced or cut. But that's almost a symptom of the task: it changes and the programs should constantly evolve - something bureaucracies are rarely good at. However there are many other programs that are vital internationally and, if you only want to take a fiscal perspective, may even save us money in the medium and long term.

    As an example, does anyone really begrudge the money we spend on polio eradication (£300 million over six years) ?

    One issue I have is the idea of setting is hard and fast target of x% of GDP. There was a good story in the Mail (yes I know, I know) about the corrupt debit card scheme in Pakistan which just keep expanding and expanding hoovering up more money just because the DfID need to spend more dosh to make sure they hit the artificial target and just pouring more into it is easier than setting up new DfID schemes.
    My view, as I've often said on here, is for the percentage GDP to be expanded from just DfID and Defence. It's a good way of allocating money IMO, with caveats.

    The 0.7% is also an international agreement, so it's not something we've pulled out of our backsides.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/04/uk-among-six-countries-hit-un-aid-spending-target-oecd
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,308

    It seems to me that Lib Dem betting markets could be most interesting this election. The broad story of tory success and labour losses are easy to understand for everyone and I think that will be broadly reflected in the betting, but the LD situation is more tricky. I think they will be massively overestimated in terms of seats, and slightly overestimated in terms of votes.

    Seats, i'm not expecting more than 15 or so. Votes, not more than 17%.

    LoLabour
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983

    It's funny how many of the same people who complained about the 'Little Englanders' jibe are proving it with their insular views on DfID.

    Yes, some DfID programs are stupid, and should be reduced or cut. But that's almost a symptom of the task: it changes and the programs should constantly evolve - something bureaucracies are rarely good at. However there are many other programs that are vital internationally and, if you only want to take a fiscal perspective, may even save us money in the medium and long term.

    As an example, does anyone really begrudge the money we spend on polio eradication (£300 million over six years) ?

    One issue I have is the idea of setting is hard and fast target of x% of GDP. There was a good story in the Mail (yes I know, I know) about the corrupt debit card scheme in Pakistan which just keep expanding and expanding hoovering up more money just because the DfID need to spend more dosh to make sure they hit the artificial target and just pouring more into it is easier than setting up new DfID schemes.
    My view, as I've often said on here, is for the percentage GDP to be expanded from just DfID and Defence. It's a good way of allocating money IMO, with caveats.

    The 0.7% is also an international agreement, so it's not something we've pulled out of our backsides.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/04/uk-among-six-countries-hit-un-aid-spending-target-oecd
    No, it was pulled out of the UN's backside ;)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,935
    Specifically fracking coincides with precisely the areas needed for a humungous Tory majority (Old coalfields), so it might stop Bolsover turning blue. Even with fracking I suspect NE Derbyshire is a goner to be perfectly honest.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,777
    YouGov:

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/04/18/public-think-theresa-may-right-call-early-election/

    Curiously enough the least keen for an early election are SNP voters - tho still net in favour.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Pulpstar said:

    One local topic which might trip the Tories up "up north", FRACKING. Massive local opposition, if Tories don't take NE Derbyshire this will be the reason why.

    Is that the decision between FRACKING THERESA MAY and FRACKING JEREMY CORBYN ?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2017

    YouGov:

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/04/18/public-think-theresa-may-right-call-early-election/

    Curiously enough the least keen for an early election are SNP voters - tho still net in favour.

    I have to say I am really surprised just how positive the public seem to be for this GE being called.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,935
    edited April 2017

    Pulpstar said:

    One local topic which might trip the Tories up "up north", FRACKING. Massive local opposition, if Tories don't take NE Derbyshire this will be the reason why.

    Is that the decision between FRACKING THERESA MAY and FRACKING JEREMY CORBYN ?
    Labour are opposed (I think) !

    Natascha Engel a member of the local anti-fracking group. Those boards will outnumber any political boards...

    That said I haven't heard official Labour policy on the matter...

    Option C a big issue in South Essex, might provide UKIP with an outside chance of a gain.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983

    YouGov:

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/04/18/public-think-theresa-may-right-call-early-election/

    Curiously enough the least keen for an early election are SNP voters - tho still net in favour.

    I have to say I am really surprised just how positive the public seem to be for this GE being called.
    Who doesn't love a snap GE? :D
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,048
    RobD said:

    It's funny how many of the same people who complained about the 'Little Englanders' jibe are proving it with their insular views on DfID.

    Yes, some DfID programs are stupid, and should be reduced or cut. But that's almost a symptom of the task: it changes and the programs should constantly evolve - something bureaucracies are rarely good at. However there are many other programs that are vital internationally and, if you only want to take a fiscal perspective, may even save us money in the medium and long term.

    As an example, does anyone really begrudge the money we spend on polio eradication (£300 million over six years) ?

    One issue I have is the idea of setting is hard and fast target of x% of GDP. There was a good story in the Mail (yes I know, I know) about the corrupt debit card scheme in Pakistan which just keep expanding and expanding hoovering up more money just because the DfID need to spend more dosh to make sure they hit the artificial target and just pouring more into it is easier than setting up new DfID schemes.
    My view, as I've often said on here, is for the percentage GDP to be expanded from just DfID and Defence. It's a good way of allocating money IMO, with caveats.

    The 0.7% is also an international agreement, so it's not something we've pulled out of our backsides.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/04/uk-among-six-countries-hit-un-aid-spending-target-oecd
    No, it was pulled out of the UN's backside ;)
    :)
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Tories would gain Hartlepool if that YouGov swing is correct for Leave areas.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908


    Mr. Rkrkrk,

    To take your points backwards.

    Building 5 bedroomed, jerry-built homes that are going on the market for £1m help no local youngsters get a place of their own. In fact virtually none of the massive house building effort around here is aimed at local people. It is much more aimed, and priced at, people moving out of London, Crawley and Brighton. Would it were otherwise and then we might see some organic growth with homes that local people could afford.

    As to the triple lock, I find your lack of certainty disturbing. The policy was introduced in response to the Daily Mail headlines. It is, perhaps, being sustained by politicians who assume to know what pensioners think rather than asking them.

    Doesn't matter what the proposal is - you can count on local opposition. I don't agree with your description of what kind of housing either... And why shouldn't people living in Crawley or Brighton have the chance to buy a place somewhere else? Young people tend to live in cities and as they get older try to move out to start families...

    http://www.westsussextoday.co.uk/news/plans-for-45-new-homes-in-storrington-1-6590543

    http://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/council-figures-reveal-massive-opposition-to-housing-plans-1-2617471

    http://www.littlehamptongazette.co.uk/news/despair-for-angmering-as-370-homes-are-approved-1-6066583

    http://www.midsussextimes.co.uk/news/vocal-opposition-to-lindfield-housing-plans-at-packed-public-meeting-1-7151496

    As for the triple lock - can't find any polling on it. Would be amazed if both Gordon and Dave hadn't done some before committing to it though.
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897

    RobD said:

    It's funny how many of the same people who complained about the 'Little Englanders' jibe are proving it with their insular views on DfID.

    Yes, some DfID programs are stupid, and should be reduced or cut. But that's almost a symptom of the task: it changes and the programs should constantly evolve - something bureaucracies are rarely good at. However there are many other programs that are vital internationally and, if you only want to take a fiscal perspective, may even save us money in the medium and long term.

    As an example, does anyone really begrudge the money we spend on polio eradication (£300 million over six years) ?

    One issue I have is the idea of setting is hard and fast target of x% of GDP. There was a good story in the Mail (yes I know, I know) about the corrupt debit card scheme in Pakistan which just keep expanding and expanding hoovering up more money just because the DfID need to spend more dosh to make sure they hit the artificial target and just pouring more into it is easier than setting up new DfID schemes.
    My view, as I've often said on here, is for the percentage GDP to be expanded from just DfID and Defence. It's a good way of allocating money IMO, with caveats.

    The 0.7% is also an international agreement, so it's not something we've pulled out of our backsides.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/04/uk-among-six-countries-hit-un-aid-spending-target-oecd
    No, it was pulled out of the UN's backside ;)
    :)
    Aid should be based on need. Supply should meet demand as much as possible. A fixed income target makes it into socialist redistribution.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    One local topic which might trip the Tories up "up north", FRACKING. Massive local opposition, if Tories don't take NE Derbyshire this will be the reason why.

    Is that the decision between FRACKING THERESA MAY and FRACKING JEREMY CORBYN ?
    Labour are opposed (I think) !

    Natascha Engel a member of the local anti-fracking group. Those boards will outnumber any political boards...

    That said I haven't heard official Labour policy on the matter...

    Option C a big issue in South Essex, might provide UKIP with an outside chance of a gain.
    You missed the gag. I am 100% certain that Corbyn is anti-fracking.
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    Best news of the day is Ken Clarke staying on - my side of the Tory party continues to flicker!
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,777

    YouGov:

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/04/18/public-think-theresa-may-right-call-early-election/

    Curiously enough the least keen for an early election are SNP voters - tho still net in favour.

    I have to say I am really surprised just how positive the public seem to be for this GE being called.
    The media have been hyping "Brenda from Bristol" who they say "speaks for us all" - but she doesn't.....
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983
    edited April 2017
    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Oh that's nice!
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    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Edinburgh South: 2015 result — Lab 39%, SNP 34%, Con 17.5%. Applying latest Scottish polls gives something like SNP 31%, Con 30%, Lab 29%. But the SNP are probably not doing as well in this constituency as the average across Scotland.

    Tasty. Please please let there be an atypical LD surge there too, for a juicy four way.
    But the SNP had a very deflated 2015 result because of their unsuitable candidate (I forget the details, but Ian Murray was a very lucky man).
    I recall chatter to that effect. Oh well. Any ideas where the tightest contests are expected to be? Presumably somewhere that was traditionally a Lab/LD contest with a solid Tory finish.

    The SNP candidate had disgraced himself on social media and was disowned by NS. I doubt SNP vetting will be so slack this time.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13214140.Edinburgh_South__why_Labour_held_on_against_the_SNP_tide/

    Plus, the genteel retirees like Ruth D and are unlikely to vote for Mr. Corbyn's Red Labour, even tactically, leaving Ian Murray well exposed.
    Scottish Labour will pile resources into Edinburgh South with leaflets and barcharts from 2015 and 2016 saying 'only Murray can beat the SNP here' (Labour in tiny writing down the bottom) while SNP resources will have to be shared more elsewhere, I expect it to still be the only Labour seat in Scotland with the LDs getting 2 MPs and the Tories 4 or 5
    As they've got little else on the go, I agree - they gave it their all to win Edinburgh Southern at the Holyrood election. However, they did rely on activist help from down south in 2016, which won't be available this time around.

    Edin South, Edin West and Mundell's seat will be the most interesting contests in Scotland.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Oh that's nice!
    Glad you agree!
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    Mr. Pulpstar, hasn't Defence procurement being bloody awful for decades?

    I remember the BOWMAN radio system getting nicknamed Better Off With Map And Nokia by a mate who was serving in the 90's
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983
    edited April 2017
    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Oh that's nice!
    Glad you agree!
    It's also wrong. She's a type 1 diabetic.

    Edit: Ah, wikipedia lists those symptoms for type 2 and not type 1.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,935
    I'd have thought the simplest method to spend the 0.7% would be to just give it straight to stuff like MSF, Red Cross disaster relief and some others (Water Aid) ?
    Score up the various aid agencies on stuff like transparency, value for money, admin costs % of total (Lower better obviously) then give all the cash to the top ten. I think trying to set up out own programmes with errm 'local assistance' (bribes etc) is part of the perception problem...
    I have no idea which are the most efficient aid agencies, but someone in DfiD ought to. I think MSF for instance would be a good one.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    AndyJS said:

    Tories would gain Hartlepool if that YouGov swing is correct for Leave areas.

    I can't imagine the local MP has decided not to stand again just because he was having a midlife crisis.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    bobajobPB said:

    Mr. Royale, jein.

    Building can happen in stupid places. Flood prone areas, or places where the infrastructure can't cope with an increased population.

    I do agree more building is a good thing, and a necessary thing, but it must be done sensibly.

    The problem is building cheaply. Any fool (or Taylor Wimpey, or Bovis, or Persimmon, or Barratt) can throw up a house or five. Making a *good* house is harder and, more importantly, costs more. Making a hundred houses that have good infrastructure is much harder, and much, much more expensive.

    They're just finishing off the village I live in (Cambourne), and during my walks and runs I get to see the houses go up. They're not particularly well built, and sell for a fortune. Worse, improvement to local infrastructure under S106 are only begrudgingly given.

    There are many reasons why this happens, from council incompetence to the fact new-build houses rarely have a champion for snagging at all stages. But it happens all over the country.
    Do you have any evidence that new builds are badly built? Most English people just prefer old houses, which is fair enough (I do, and live in one) but it's not true to say new builds are generally badly built.
    May I break the non contact rule here @PBModerator? It isnt a partisan point

    John Harris is massively on the case re this issue

    "The story of what has happened in Orchard Village and who is responsible stretches back at least a decade. Among other things, it highlights how much housing associations – which adminster the homes of more than 2 million people in England and Wales – are changing. Once, they were thought of as a community-based, grassroots alternative to supposedly faceless and impersonal local councils. Now, encouraged by government deregulation, they are combining into new “mega-associations” and becoming powerful players in the rush to build so-called affordable houses and flats. In the process, say their critics, the people they are meant to serve are too often forgotten."

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/06/life-flagship-housing-estate-orchard-village-east-london
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,053
    edited April 2017

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Edinburgh South: 2015 result — Lab 39%, SNP 34%, Con 17.5%. Applying latest Scottish polls gives something like SNP 31%, Con 30%, Lab 29%. But the SNP are probably not doing as well in this constituency as the average across Scotland.

    Tasty. Please please let there be an atypical LD surge there too, for a juicy four way.
    But the SNP had a very deflated 2015 result because of their unsuitable candidate (I forget the details, but Ian Murray was a very lucky man).
    I recall chatter to that effect. Oh well. Any ideas where the tightest contests are expected to be? Presumably somewhere that was traditionally a Lab/LD contest with a solid Tory finish.

    The SNP candidate had disgraced himself on social media and was disowned by NS. I doubt SNP vetting will be so slack this time.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13214140.Edinburgh_South__why_Labour_held_on_against_the_SNP_tide/

    Plus, the genteel retirees like Ruth D and are unlikely to vote for Mr. Corbyn's Red Labour, even tactically, leaving Ian Murray well exposed.
    Scottish Labour will pile resources into Edinburgh South with leaflets and barcharts from 2015 and 2016 saying 'only Murray can beat the SNP here' (Labour in tiny writing down the bottom) while SNP resources will have to be shared more elsewhere, I expect it to still be the only Labour seat in Scotland with the LDs getting 2 MPs and the Tories 4 or 5
    As they've got little else on the go, I agree - they gave it their all to win Edinburgh Southern at the Holyrood election. However, they did rely on activist help from down south in 2016, which won't be available this time around.

    Edin South, Edin West and Mundell's seat will be the most interesting contests in Scotland.
    The first 2 certainly (I think the SNP could fail to win either) but Mundell's seat should be a solid Tory hold
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,935
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    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    I've seen you wish a serious heart attack on Corbyn and now blindness or amputation for May - what lovely ailment do you wish on poor Tim Farron?
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Oh.. a whipping on HoL reform as well, is possible. Major wildcard.

    May doesn't like to be thwarted and, if there is to be constitutional change to reflect Brexit, what better time than during the Brexit transition period?

    It will be rejected twice, probably in the 2019 and 2020 parliamentary sessions, and then Parliament Acted.

    Yes, probably. Vindictive too, since she wasn't thwarted at all and the Lords did their job, made suggested legislative changes, and then passed it unamended when the Commons sent it back.

    May seems to be a score settler, but Lords reform should not be done as such a reaction, drafted on the back of a fag packet. But she made sure to mention unelected lords opposing her (emphasis on the unelected, which should mean she wants to abolish the lot)

    If she wants quick and justifiable reform, I'd repeat from yesterday a good starting point would be to immediately retire from the House those who have not contributed X number of times in the last 2 years and ban someone from being made a member of the house if they have held elected office in the past 7 years. At a stroke removes those using it as a cushy retirement and parachuting the recently defenstrated into positions of power.

    Commiserations to TSE about Osborne. He was not very likeable, but he seemed a capable sort who could have offered more to parliament. But making money and editing papers is probably more fulfilling and certainly more lucrative work when backbench work beckons.
    Erdogan in drag...
    If that were a right-winger making a similar criticism of a female Labour or Lib Dem leader, you'd be accusing them of misogyny.
    No, I don't think so. May is on a power trip. She gave the reason for the early election to be that she found the parliamentary opposition in the Commons and Lords inconvenient. The fact that they stopped nothing and indeed acquiesced to her demands doesn't seem to matter. She seems to find even the slightest criticism impudent.

    Erdogan took a decade to reach this point.
    Maybe she'll close Opposition media and replace judges after the election.
    Indeed - all the 'chatterers' on here show little signs of having learned anything at all since the referendum of where the real voter power lies - they're much more comfortable sneering at them.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,856

    kle4 said:

    Oh.. a whipping on HoL reform as well, is possible. Major wildcard.

    May doesn't like to be thwarted and, if there is to be constitutional change to reflect Brexit, what better time than during the Brexit transition period?

    It will be rejected twice, probably in the 2019 and 2020 parliamentary sessions, and then Parliament Acted.

    Yes, probably. Vindictive too, since she wasn't thwarted at all and the Lords did their job, made suggested legislative changes, and then passed it unamended when the Commons sent it back.

    May seems to be a score settler, but Lords reform should not be done as such a reaction, drafted on the back of a fag packet. But she made sure to mention unelected lords opposing her (emphasis on the unelected, which should mean she wants to abolish the lot)

    If she wants quick and justifiable reform, I'd repeat from yesterday a good starting point would be to immediately retire from the House those who have not contributed X number of times in the last 2 years and ban someone from being made a member of the house if they have held elected office in the past 7 years. At a stroke removes those using it as a cushy retirement and parachuting the recently defenstrated into positions of power.

    Commiserations to TSE about Osborne. He was not very likeable, but he seemed a capable sort who could have offered more to parliament. But making money and editing papers is probably more fulfilling and certainly more lucrative work when backbench work beckons.
    Erdogan in drag...
    If that were a right-winger making a similar criticism of a female Labour or Lib Dem leader, you'd be accusing them of misogyny.
    foxinsox is probably hoping May will propose restoring capital punishment such is his warped view of her...
    Restoration of capital punishment polls well with Brexiteers, even more popular than blue passports.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-leave-voters-death-penalty-yougov-results-light-bulbs-a7656791.html
    It's been popular for years irrespective of Brexit.
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    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,957
    rcs1000 said:



    You do realise that if someone is occupies a house, it makes no difference whether they are a renter or a purchaser. In both cases, they have occupied one unit of housing.

    The problem of housing, specifically, is that there is a great deal of demand in London and the surrounding areas (which is caused by London hitherto being one of only three or four wold cities, and being the only one in Europe). And there has not been much supply (green belt, councils, etc.). But that is changing already. There is now more housing under construction in London that at any period since the immediate post WW2 boom.

    Despite SeanT's bullish prognostications for London property, I believe that net migration from the UK will turn negative by 2020, and this will happen at the same time that a massive amount of new supply hits the market. I expect prime London (Chelsea, St John's Wood, Mayfair, Hampstead, Belgravia) to fall 60% in real terms*, while outside London I expect only modest price moves.

    Anyway, back to your point. If everyone is sitting on big losses on their properties, do you think they'll still be voting Conservative?

    * Three years ago, at the peak of the market, a 1,500 square foot flat on the unfashionable Childs Hill side of Hampstead sold for £2.8m.

    Valid points.

    However I'm talking about home ownership as an factor in Tory votership.

    Now let's assume you're a 55 year old in a middle class profession who bought a home in an unfashionable part of Hampstead aged 30, 25 years ago. If that home goes down in price from 2.8m to 1m, odds are you're still quids in on where you started. And you will still vote Tory.

    If, on the other hand, you are locked out of the property market aged 30, still locked out at 40, 50 and 60, because you will literally never be able to afford a 0.4m property, let alone a 2.8m one... that's the problem.

    Home ownership correlates with Conservative votes. Hence, Right To Buy in the 80s. Home ownership in England reached its peak in 2003, at 71% of households. That figure has fallen to 64% and is likely to continue to fall. What's more, it's falling disproportionately on the young. In 1991, 64% of under 35 year olds owned. That is now 45%. And in the 35 - 45 bracket it has fallen from 80% to 65%. Those are national figures. God only knows what they are in London and its surrounds.

    These should be alarming figures for any Conservative government. It's about whether you own a place or not, not whether rich buggers who bought 30 years ago lose paper millions that should be of concern.

    I don't think a fall in prices at the ultra high end of the market will lead to people flocking from the Tories to Labour. But I do think being unable to get on the property ladder and therefore settle down, have kids, and so on, will lead to a fall in Tory voters in the next ten to twenty years.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,935

    AndyJS said:

    Tories would gain Hartlepool if that YouGov swing is correct for Leave areas.

    I can't imagine the local MP has decided not to stand again just because he was having a midlife crisis.
    I think we need to shut the hell up about potential gains and losses before constituency odds are released !

    I bet the bookies are crawling over this site looking out for pricing info :p
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    RobD said:

    It's funny how many of the same people who complained about the 'Little Englanders' jibe are proving it with their insular views on DfID.

    Yes, some DfID programs are stupid, and should be reduced or cut. But that's almost a symptom of the task: it changes and the programs should constantly evolve - something bureaucracies are rarely good at. However there are many other programs that are vital internationally and, if you only want to take a fiscal perspective, may even save us money in the medium and long term.

    As an example, does anyone really begrudge the money we spend on polio eradication (£300 million over six years) ?

    If the other 99.5% of the budget was being spent on things as worthwhile as polio eradication I don't think there would be as many complaints.
    67.1m kids vaccinated.
    11.3m kids on primary/secondary education.
    Family planning to 9.9m women
    30m kids and pregnant women through nutrition programmes
    13.4m given emergency food assistance etc...

    It's all on devtracker if you want to look. Way more transparent than any other department i think.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,777
    Comedian David Baddiel said that people who claimed Tim Farron is talking the most sense had to face up to the fact that “he’s a fundamentalist Christian homophobe”. Activist Owen Jones branded the comments “an absolute disgrace”.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983
    rkrkrk said:

    RobD said:

    It's funny how many of the same people who complained about the 'Little Englanders' jibe are proving it with their insular views on DfID.

    Yes, some DfID programs are stupid, and should be reduced or cut. But that's almost a symptom of the task: it changes and the programs should constantly evolve - something bureaucracies are rarely good at. However there are many other programs that are vital internationally and, if you only want to take a fiscal perspective, may even save us money in the medium and long term.

    As an example, does anyone really begrudge the money we spend on polio eradication (£300 million over six years) ?

    If the other 99.5% of the budget was being spent on things as worthwhile as polio eradication I don't think there would be as many complaints.
    67.1m kids vaccinated.
    11.3m kids on primary/secondary education.
    Family planning to 9.9m women
    30m kids and pregnant women through nutrition programmes
    13.4m given emergency food assistance etc...

    It's all on devtracker if you want to look. Way more transparent than any other department i think.
    Would be interesting to know what fraction of the budget those stats correspond to.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,053
    edited April 2017
    AndyJS said:

    Tories would gain Hartlepool if that YouGov swing is correct for Leave areas.

    Given the Tory lead more than matches Labour's in 1997 and 2001 and with ICM exceeds the Tory lead over Labour in 1983 it is possible we could see the Tories gain seats they have never held before, at least since WW2, Leave seats with Labour MPs in the North, Wales and Midlands are the ones to watch
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Tories would gain Hartlepool if that YouGov swing is correct for Leave areas.

    I can't imagine the local MP has decided not to stand again just because he was having a midlife crisis.
    I think we need to shut the hell up about potential gains and losses before constituency odds are released !

    I bet the bookies are crawling over this site looking out for pricing info :p
    To be fair, they have a horrible task. The chances of ricks are substantial.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Tories would gain Hartlepool if that YouGov swing is correct for Leave areas.

    I can't imagine the local MP has decided not to stand again just because he was having a midlife crisis.
    I think we need to shut the hell up about potential gains and losses before constituency odds are released !

    I bet the bookies are crawling over this site looking out for pricing info :p
    Then we should throw a few rogue ones in as disinformation.
    LD gain Hertsmere?

  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,092

    The chances of ricks are substantial.

    Is he going to be campaigning? "Never gonna give EU up..."
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,935

    Comedian David Baddiel said that people who claimed Tim Farron is talking the most sense had to face up to the fact that “he’s a fundamentalist Christian homophobe”. Activist Owen Jones branded the comments “an absolute disgrace”.
    Tim cleared this up in parliament today, it will be in Hansard soon enough for the record.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,856
    Back in the real world of local election fever, I'm impressed with my labour leaflet delivery today (still nothing from the Tories, 2 weeks behind the initial LD leaflet). It has:

    A two side A5 sheet on the unitary candidate for the ward (albeit filled with triteness about 'being different' and not much else
    An two side A4 glossy of all the Labour unitary candidates for the town with little bios, and a list of 'local issues' on the back, some of which really are local issues, and talking up how they are for the first time in a long time standing in all wards
    A 4 page A5 leaflet, 3 pages of which lambasts Theresa May over the state of the NHS, and the last of which talks of how a 'Labour Government will deliver the real change Britain needs' after 'six years' of the Tories' policies, so either they are amazingly quick of the mark, or they were going to hammer the NHS message come what may for the locals.

    Mostly platitudes, issues that are not locally relevant and endless whining about the NHS, but I'm impressed with the organisation and presentation to try and focus town wide issues with wider labour values.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,989
    Mr. Pubgoer, well, Nokias were indestructible, which would mean they could double up as melee weapons.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983
    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    You are saying May deserves to be blind or to lose limbs? You are sick.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    This. Build.

    I've said it before but the fact is there's an undeniable correlation between home ownership and voting Conservative.

    If nobody under the age of 30 can afford to buy a house, those people will eventually become renters in their 40s and 50s and they will vote, in their droves, against the Tories. A demographic timebomb that could be solved with one simple policy: build, build, build.

    You do realise that if someone is occupies a house, it makes no difference whether they are a renter or a purchaser. In both cases, they have occupied one unit of housing.

    The problem of housing, specifically, is that there is a great deal of demand in London and the surrounding areas (which is caused by London hitherto being one of only three or four wold cities, and being the only one in Europe). And there has not been much supply (green belt, councils, etc.). But that is changing already. There is now more housing under construction in London that at any period since the immediate post WW2 boom.

    Despite SeanT's bullish prognostications for London property, I believe that net migration from the UK will turn negative by 2020, and this will happen at the same time that a massive amount of new supply hits the market. I expect prime London (Chelsea, St John's Wood, Mayfair, Hampstead, Belgravia) to fall 60% in real terms*, while outside London I expect only modest price moves.

    Anyway, back to your point. If everyone is sitting on big losses on their properties, do you think they'll still be voting Conservative?

    * Three years ago, at the peak of the market, a 1,500 square foot flat on the unfashionable Childs Hill side of Hampstead sold for £2.8m.
    That is just nuts. I've never calculated the square footage of our house but I'm sure it's a good deal more than that. We bought it three years ago for less than a tenth of that price and it comes with I'd guess about 0.2 acres of garden. And no Londoners (nor any direct neighbours given that it's detached).
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    Eesh... Disgusting.
    Can't we all agree that while we don't like some politicians we don't wish them to die or ill health...
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,777
    ITV announce debate, but:

    It is unclear whether ITV would risk falling foul of strict rules on broadcasters' impartiality by going ahead with a debate without the Prime Minister.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/85206/theresa-may-digs-itv-announces
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    Sexism as well - you'd fit well in the Labour party you claim not to support. Time to crawl back under your hole methinks - come back June 11th.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,856
    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    She either lied to us on a political point or changed her mind and gave lame excuses for doing so, but people don't deserve to have mutilation wished on them for lying.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,514
    edited April 2017

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Tories would gain Hartlepool if that YouGov swing is correct for Leave areas.

    I can't imagine the local MP has decided not to stand again just because he was having a midlife crisis.
    I think we need to shut the hell up about potential gains and losses before constituency odds are released !

    I bet the bookies are crawling over this site looking out for pricing info :p
    To be fair, they have a horrible task. The chances of ricks are substantial.
    In my totally unbiased view and totally helpful to the bookies, the Lib Dems in Sheffield Hallam should be priced at 66/1 or higher to win the seat.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,053
    edited April 2017
    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    She already debates with them every week at PMs, Thatcher or Blair never did head to head TV debates
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    rkrkrk said:

    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    Eesh... Disgusting.
    Can't we all agree that while we don't like some politicians we don't wish them to die or ill health...
    You must speak for yourself - Adolf Hitler was a politician .
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,851
    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    And you call yourself a Christian?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983
    justin124 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    Eesh... Disgusting.
    Can't we all agree that while we don't like some politicians we don't wish them to die or ill health...
    You must speak for yourself - Adolf Hitler was a politician .
    Digging even deeper...
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,969

    Best news of the day is Ken Clarke staying on - my side of the Tory party continues to flicker!

    Nah, best news of the day is Osbourne quitting. Good riddance. Clarke can continue to sit on the back benches and croak occasionally like that toad Heath. No one with any sense listens to him anyway.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,856

    ITV announce debate, but:

    It is unclear whether ITV would risk falling foul of strict rules on broadcasters' impartiality by going ahead with a debate without the Prime Minister.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/85206/theresa-may-digs-itv-announces

    Seems harsh - they offered her a platform if she wished, and she declined. She gets her message across to the voters just like the others, only her message is 'I do not wish to take part in a TV debate', and people may make of that what they will.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited April 2017
    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    Sexism as well - you'd fit well in the Labour party you claim not to support. Time to crawl back under your hole methinks - come back June 11th.
    I won't be voting Labour - you really totally miss the point.She has treated us all with contempt - and would certainly deserve a pollonium pill in her tea.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,935

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Tories would gain Hartlepool if that YouGov swing is correct for Leave areas.

    I can't imagine the local MP has decided not to stand again just because he was having a midlife crisis.
    I think we need to shut the hell up about potential gains and losses before constituency odds are released !

    I bet the bookies are crawling over this site looking out for pricing info :p
    Then we should throw a few rogue ones in as disinformation.
    LD gain Hertsmere?

    Lib Dems should definitely be around 5-2 in Maidenhead, strong remain territory. I'd make May 2-5 to hold.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Are the moderators around today?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,053
    edited April 2017
    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    That is one of the nastiest comments I have read on PB (to be fair your comments on Corbyn were just as bad) and others have been banned or sinbinned for less
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    justin124 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    Eesh... Disgusting.
    Can't we all agree that while we don't like some politicians we don't wish them to die or ill health...
    You must speak for yourself - Adolf Hitler was a politician .
    Ah now it all makes sense - you are Ken [frog loving] Livingston.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983
    kle4 said:

    ITV announce debate, but:

    It is unclear whether ITV would risk falling foul of strict rules on broadcasters' impartiality by going ahead with a debate without the Prime Minister.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/85206/theresa-may-digs-itv-announces

    Seems harsh - they offered her a platform if she wished, and she declined. She gets her message across to the voters just like the others, only her message is 'I do not wish to take part in a TV debate', and people may make of that what they will.
    Do the impartiality rules give that exemption, or is it simply stated that there must be equal airtime between all major parties?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,024
    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Justin: any more comments of this type and you'll find yourself banned.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,829
    dr_spyn said:
    Talking of Rochdale has Mrs Duffy given her view on Election 2017?

    A nation awaits with baited breath. :smiley:
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,935
    justin124 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    Eesh... Disgusting.
    Can't we all agree that while we don't like some politicians we don't wish them to die or ill health...
    You must speak for yourself - Adolf Hitler was a politician .
    Ken, is that you ?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2017
    Have I accidentally stumbled onto an ISIS message board? As there appears to be a load of posts wishing the death and disablement to leading politicians...
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,092
    The nasty party seems to have a new identity.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,777
    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    Sexism as well - you'd fit well in the Labour party you claim not to support. Time to crawl back under your hole methinks - come back June 11th.
    Just as well she isn't Jewish......
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983
    AndyJS said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Are the moderators around today?
    Best behaviour now, OGH Jr has just turned up...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,777
    Has Ken pointed out yet that Hitler called a snap election?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,856
    HYUFD said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    She already debates with them every week at PMs, Thatcher or Blair never did head to head TV debates
    Times change. She doesn't have to do them, they aren't a requirement (so Robertson for once looks a bit foolish in my eyes with how hard he pushed it), but 'they didn't do it in the 80s and 90s' is a lame reason to justify not doing it either.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    RobD said:

    It's funny how many of the same people who complained about the 'Little Englanders' jibe are proving it with their insular views on DfID.

    Yes, some DfID programs are stupid, and should be reduced or cut. But that's almost a symptom of the task: it changes and the programs should constantly evolve - something bureaucracies are rarely good at. However there are many other programs that are vital internationally and, if you only want to take a fiscal perspective, may even save us money in the medium and long term.

    As an example, does anyone really begrudge the money we spend on polio eradication (£300 million over six years) ?

    If the other 99.5% of the budget was being spent on things as worthwhile as polio eradication I don't think there would be as many complaints.
    67.1m kids vaccinated.
    11.3m kids on primary/secondary education.
    Family planning to 9.9m women
    30m kids and pregnant women through nutrition programmes
    13.4m given emergency food assistance etc...

    It's all on devtracker if you want to look. Way more transparent than any other department i think.
    Would be interesting to know what fraction of the budget those stats correspond to.
    Well you can't always nearly divide these things. And these are only the neatly countable things.
    Actually often the more important stuff is the things in between.

    Certainly health, education, emergencies would be a big chunk of dfid budget.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983

    Has Ken pointed out yet that Hitler called a snap election?

    LOL
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    On a relevant election note, I've just received several e-mails from CCHQ re candidate selection. The whole thing is inevitably being fast-tracked.

    MPs who want to stand again can do so subject to the approval of either their exec or full membership. Candidates from target seats (unclear whether this is 2015 or 2017), can do the same.

    Where there's a vacancy in a Con-held seat or a key target, there'll be a shortlist of three drawn up between the CCHQ and the Association officers and put to a general meeting.

    For the non-target seats (which given current polling may be some which are ultimately gained), CCHQ will impose a candidate. I can foresee some grumbling about that.

    So I should only have one selection to run rather than two. Woohoo.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Tories would gain Hartlepool if that YouGov swing is correct for Leave areas.

    I can't imagine the local MP has decided not to stand again just because he was having a midlife crisis.
    I think we need to shut the hell up about potential gains and losses before constituency odds are released !

    I bet the bookies are crawling over this site looking out for pricing info :p
    Then we should throw a few rogue ones in as disinformation.
    LD gain Hertsmere?

    Lib Dems should definitely be around 5-2 in Maidenhead, strong remain territory. I'd make May 2-5 to hold.
    She'll take a larger share of the vote in Maidenhead than Ollie Dowden will in Hertsmere imo.
    Hertsmere was borderline about 1000 votes) leave

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,983
    rkrkrk said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    RobD said:

    It's funny how many of the same people who complained about the 'Little Englanders' jibe are proving it with their insular views on DfID.

    Yes, some DfID programs are stupid, and should be reduced or cut. But that's almost a symptom of the task: it changes and the programs should constantly evolve - something bureaucracies are rarely good at. However there are many other programs that are vital internationally and, if you only want to take a fiscal perspective, may even save us money in the medium and long term.

    As an example, does anyone really begrudge the money we spend on polio eradication (£300 million over six years) ?

    If the other 99.5% of the budget was being spent on things as worthwhile as polio eradication I don't think there would be as many complaints.
    67.1m kids vaccinated.
    11.3m kids on primary/secondary education.
    Family planning to 9.9m women
    30m kids and pregnant women through nutrition programmes
    13.4m given emergency food assistance etc...

    It's all on devtracker if you want to look. Way more transparent than any other department i think.
    Would be interesting to know what fraction of the budget those stats correspond to.
    Well you can't always nearly divide these things. And these are only the neatly countable things.
    Actually often the more important stuff is the things in between.

    Certainly health, education, emergencies would be a big chunk of dfid budget.
    No doubt it is a spectrum from polio eradication to funding of pop pands.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2017
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Are the moderators around today?
    Best behaviour now, OGH Jr has just turned up...
    Look innocents lads....Dickes stop the digging....
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    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Listen - we know you're a bit of a freak on here at times but that sort of comment is seriously out of order and totally nasty. Get a grip ffs.
    But a lying bitch deserves nothing less!
    Are you on a wind up or just a scumbag?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,829

    YouGov:

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/04/18/public-think-theresa-may-right-call-early-election/

    Curiously enough the least keen for an early election are SNP voters - tho still net in favour.

    Presumably we'll get the headline voting intention numbers from that poll later (probably in The Sun?)
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    new thread

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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    rcs1000 said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Justin: any more comments of this type and you'll find yourself banned.
    There are more, all you have to do is read a bit. Misogyny, comparing all politicians to Hitler, suggesting poisioning with Polonium....
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    edited April 2017
    Snip.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,969
    rkrkrk said:

    RobD said:

    It's funny how many of the same people who complained about the 'Little Englanders' jibe are proving it with their insular views on DfID.

    Yes, some DfID programs are stupid, and should be reduced or cut. But that's almost a symptom of the task: it changes and the programs should constantly evolve - something bureaucracies are rarely good at. However there are many other programs that are vital internationally and, if you only want to take a fiscal perspective, may even save us money in the medium and long term.

    As an example, does anyone really begrudge the money we spend on polio eradication (£300 million over six years) ?

    If the other 99.5% of the budget was being spent on things as worthwhile as polio eradication I don't think there would be as many complaints.
    67.1m kids vaccinated.
    11.3m kids on primary/secondary education.
    Family planning to 9.9m women
    30m kids and pregnant women through nutrition programmes
    13.4m given emergency food assistance etc...

    It's all on devtracker if you want to look. Way more transparent than any other department i think.
    The 0.7% of GDP for overseas aid is something we can and should be very proud of.

    There will always be issues about how these things are administered and who gets the money but that is a question of reviewing and revising our criteria for overseas aid, not getting rid of or reducing it. I hope that leaving the EU might help this as significant amounts of overseas aid was channelled through them and the convoluted way in which it was administered made the whole thing rather opaque.

    But the basic principle that rich countries should help poor ones for the long term benefit of everyone seems very sensible and admirable to me.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,829
    rcs1000 said:

    justin124 said:

    theakes said:

    TV Debates: Mrs May is giving the appearance of being "frit". She has looked uncomfortable when under close scrutiny in the Commons, perhaps she has not got the self confidence in an open debate. Whatever it is very concerning that she is responsible for this country in the negotiations she keeps going on about, if she cannot debate on TV with Corbyn, Farron and Nuttall, how the hell is she going to manage against the experienced and alert E, E C negotiatoors. It is all very worrying. If she is not up to the job, then resign.

    As she is a diabetic one day we may get the pleasure of hearing that she has gone blind - or even become an amputee!
    Justin: any more comments of this type and you'll find yourself banned.
    I think lefties are getting desperate...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,777
    Matthew Goodwin‏ @GoodwinMJ
    To be clear there are 49 Lab seats with majority less than 10 pts, 42 that wd be lost to Cons on 5% swing, 81 that wd likely go on 10% swing

    Matthew Goodwin‏ @GoodwinMJ
    There are around 50 Lab seats that wd fall to Cons on just a 5% swing -which underlines how easy it would be for Lab to fall under 200 mark
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    RobD said:



    No doubt it is a spectrum from polio eradication to funding of pop pands.

    I won't convince you but the comms stuff is actually really important... I can understand why dfid ministers scrapped the funding though because politically it looks terrible.
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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Edinburgh South: 2015 result — Lab 39%, SNP 34%, Con 17.5%. Applying latest Scottish polls gives something like SNP 31%, Con 30%, Lab 29%. But the SNP are probably not doing as well in this constituency as the average across Scotland.

    Tasty. Please please let there be an atypical LD surge there too, for a juicy four way.
    But the SNP had a very deflated 2015 result because of their unsuitable candidate (I forget the details, but Ian Murray was a very lucky man).
    I recall chatter to that effect. Oh well. Any ideas where the tightest contests are expected to be? Presumably somewhere that was traditionally a Lab/LD contest with a solid Tory finish.

    The SNP candidate had disgraced himself on social media and was disowned by NS. I doubt SNP vetting will be so slack this time.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13214140.Edinburgh_South__why_Labour_held_on_against_the_SNP_tide/

    Plus, the genteel retirees like Ruth D and are unlikely to vote for Mr. Corbyn's Red Labour, even tactically, leaving Ian Murray well exposed.
    Scottish Labour will pile resources into Edinburgh South with leaflets and barcharts from 2015 and 2016 saying 'only Murray can beat the SNP here' (Labour in tiny writing down the bottom) while SNP resources will have to be shared more elsewhere, I expect it to still be the only Labour seat in Scotland with the LDs getting 2 MPs and the Tories 4 or 5
    As they've got little else on the go, I agree - they gave it their all to win Edinburgh Southern at the Holyrood election. However, they did rely on activist help from down south in 2016, which won't be available this time around.

    Edin South, Edin West and Mundell's seat will be the most interesting contests in Scotland.
    The first 2 certainly (I think the SNP could fail to win either) but Mundell's seat should be a solid Tory hold
    I think it will depend on the campaigns on the ground. If the Tories are targeting resources at Edinburgh South then it might end up as an SNP gain. At the same time you could end up seeing Labour picking up somewhere like East Lothian.

    I'd expect the Lib Dems to win in Edinburgh West, North East Fife & Orkney & Shetland. Jo Swinson should be favourite in East Dunbartonshire and a Highland constituency isn't beyond the realms of possibility if the air war goes well for the party
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908



    The 0.7% of GDP for overseas aid is something we can and should be very proud of.

    There will always be issues about how these things are administered and who gets the money but that is a question of reviewing and revising our criteria for overseas aid, not getting rid of or reducing it. I hope that leaving the EU might help this as significant amounts of overseas aid was channelled through them and the convoluted way in which it was administered made the whole thing rather opaque.

    But the basic principle that rich countries should help poor ones for the long term benefit of everyone seems very sensible and admirable to me.

    No doubt in my mind that DfID are better at spending aid money than the EU. Taking back control (god it's a good slogan) of that money is a good thing imo.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,030
    AndyJS said:

    East Lothian looks interesting to me. The result in 2015 was SNP 42.5%, Lab 31.0%, Con 19.5%. If you apply the latest Scottish opinion polls you get something like SNP 39%, Con 32%, Lab 21%. Tories within striking distance.

    Nope
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,030

    AndyJS said:

    East Lothian looks interesting to me. The result in 2015 was SNP 42.5%, Lab 31.0%, Con 19.5%. If you apply the latest Scottish opinion polls you get something like SNP 39%, Con 32%, Lab 21%. Tories within striking distance.

    Yes, the Nats were only 8/15 to gain that (from Lab) in the first place. There are plenty of 3rd place gains possible for the Tories - but can they unravel the vote?
    LOL
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,030
    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Patrick said:
    BRS, Edinbugh West, Fife NE. After that I'd need to check my spreadsheets.
    East Dunbartonshire, East Ren are the next most vulnerable. John Nicolson has been quite high profile, would be interesting to see if Jo Swinson fancies another go at her old constituency.

    The Scottish Parliament seats that make up East Dumbartonshire have not shown (big) moves to the LDs. Jo Swinson also saw her vote hold up remarkably well in 2015.

    I suspect that the LDs will fall back in East Dumbartonshire in June. My view; comfortable SNP hold.
    Im pretty sure Jo Swinson wants her seat back and will be the Lib Dem candidate
    Everyone I know who's met Jo has been extremely impressed with her. But. I simply don't see the LibDem strength in East Dumbartonshire. My guess is that Jo will end up in the low 30s, against 40 odd for the SNP.
    It'll be an interesting contest, for sure. The seat was first out of 650 for highest turnout in 2015, which shows the ground game both LDs and Nats played last time. As a straight re-match between the two of them, the 20% of the vote that the Tories and Labour got between them is surely going to come under pressure, which will work in Jo's favour.
    But the Tories are surging - they got 15.5% in 2010 and 16.5% in 2005. They clearly leant their vote to LD as anti-SNP tactical votes. Are they really going to want to miss out on the glorious Scon revolution?
    Who would ever have bet on Dumbarton East having the highest turnout of any UK seat? Discount the ground game at your peril.

    Besides, SNP activists have tons of seats to defend. Scotland's growing LD membership won't be taking the ferry to O&S; where else are they going to go?
    Are they in double figures yet
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,030

    Mr. kle4, wasn't a great PPB.

    Mr. Calum, cheers. My own guess would be slightly lower, maybe 50-52, but obviously I'm not as up on Scotland.

    Very high tide mark was hit by the SNP last time. Any chance annoyance at Sturgeon's desire for a Scottish generation to be 3 years will help the others?

    Unlikely and anything 50 upwards is perfect for them, and even less is no great issue.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,030

    Mr. Theakes, if the negotiations were televised live and then subject to a vote by the electorate, I'd agree.

    Politicians with large poll leads don't like debates. I agree she probably wouldn't fancy them anyway, but with a 20 point lead she has nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

    A debate with Corbyn, Farron and Sturgeon would be like the Williams/Force India battle. Quite interesting, but it's only to be best of the rest.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Pulpstar, I didn't mean that as an excuse or to just shrug, only to say Defence spending isn't the problem, it's incompetent procurement.

    She is a coward and will duck it as she will look like the dithering no user she is.
This discussion has been closed.