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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The country’s leading psephologists bring more bad news for Co

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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,005
    Alistair said:

    Also, how does Sturgeon call a Scotish General election?

    Would the SNP improve on their position?
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Danny565 said:

    Apparently the full R&T predictions for national voteshare are (tucked away in Adam Boulton's column in the Times):

    Conservatives 31%
    Labour 29%
    Lib Dems 22%
    UKIP 10%

    Cheers, just stuck into the thread header

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/848542891496624128
    No change for Labour is quite impressive!
    NESV? net equivalent share of vote?
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited April 2017

    Danny565 said:

    Apparently the full R&T predictions for national voteshare are (tucked away in Adam Boulton's column in the Times):

    Conservatives 31%
    Labour 29%
    Lib Dems 22%
    UKIP 10%

    Cheers, just stuck into the thread header

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/848542891496624128
    No change for Labour is quite impressive!
    I would expect the Tories to do quite a bit better than 31%.
    Rallings & Thrasher appear to be predicting a swing of just 2.5% from Lab to Con since 2013. I just don't believe it - very surprised if it is not at least double that!
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    TSE = a red Tory.... who knew....
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyan said:

    Meanwhile the governing party in Scotland is threatening to hold an illegal plebiscite. What happens if the other parties boycott it? Will the governing party declare the result of a plebiscite of its own supporters - plus some clinging-to-the-past "let's stop climate change" Green nutters - to be legitimate? What happens if the Orange Order turn up at the illegal polling stations with pickaxe handles to try to prevent such a flagrant breach of the Scotland Act?

    Everything seems to be going the Kremlin's way.

    That is one scenario where we could learn from Spain. In 2015 the Spanish government arrested the Catalan President for holding an illegal independence referendum and put him on trial. He was fined and banned from public office for 2 years
    Lol.

    Was it only a few short weeks ago that PB Yoons were comforting each other that Sturgeon was bluffing and definitely wasn't going to ask for another referendum which she knew she'd lose? Now it's put her on trial and ban her from politics.

    Not shiteing it at all, oh no.
    Most polls show NO would still win an OFFICIAL referendum which Scots only want after a Brexit deal comcluded
    Sturgeon is cunning though. Even a post Brexit indyref means that May will have to be very attentive to Scottish positions, or there would be a backlash post Brexit. Not to forget that Ruth Davidson is a prominent remainer too.

    Whatever the timing, Scotland will be heard as a result.
    Are you suggesting that Sturgeon could be plotting a 'cunning stunt' with her referendum plans. Just be careful how you say it :)
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    TSE = a red Tory.... who knew....

    I've been called worse.

    I'm tempted to stick £50 on Spurs to win the title.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    MattW said:

    Cyan said:

    Michael "he likes race horses" Howard says Theresa May would "go to war" to "protect" Gibraltar.

    Yet there is zero chance of a Spanish attack on Gibraltar. And it is Britain, not Spain, that is planning to make the border into not only an external EU one, but one across which there is no single market and no customs union [*], against the wishes of a large majority of the Gibraltar population.

    Do people get what is happening here?

    It also appears to me that there is not going to be a happy-clappy resolution to the Irish border question either, despite all the "we know how to solve problems" attitude that is being projected.

    (*) The only other such borders for thousands of miles are around Ceuta and Melilla, which are surrounded by Colditz-style fences.

    I understand that Howard was trying to be helpful to Theresa here, but I'm not sure that Leavers' using the language of WAR!!!! in Europe is at all wise. This whole business demands cool heads, or at least the appearance of them.
    Some media outlets picked up on the comments and interpreted them as meaning, "Theresa May would go to war to defend Gibraltar".

    This is a little uncharitable to the former home secretary and Conservative party leader, he didn't say that.


    http://news.sky.com/story/gibraltar-row-shows-scale-of-pms-brexit-challenge-10822312
    Media outlets contain a significantly large collection of people gagging for rip-roaring headlines.
    What was once the sole preserve of ‘tabloids’ has now been adopted by the broadsheets. Rip-roaring headlines sell papers and generate on-line clicks, it was ever thus.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Rallings & Thrasher figure imply just a 1.5% swing from Lab To Con since last year when Labour had a 1% lead based on NEV. I do not find that very credible!
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    AnneJGP said:

    Miss JGP, ah, was probably Mr. Bean's nemesis.

    At the back, and it could've been a Morgan.

    Ishmael_Z said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Vote Corbyn today for jam tomorrow!

    Good afternoon, Mr Dancer.

    Thought the bus was behind a F1 car today. A corner in the road revealed the front of the car - it was a 3-wheeler! Never seen a car like it before.
    Good afternoon.

    You must be even younger than I thought you were.
    Seen lots of 3-wheelers (my uncle had one - he had to lift the bonnet to kick-start the motorbike engine inside; family had to walk up significant hills) but never one with a rear view that looked like a F1 vehicle.
    Possibly a Bond Bug, one of the most 1970s things about the 1970s:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Road_Up_To_Honister_pass.jpg
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145

    TSE = a red Tory.... who knew....

    I've been called worse.

    I'm tempted to stick £50 on Spurs to win the title.
    Spurs fans should take heart - last season showed that small clubs can win the Premier League.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,806


    Some Rejoiners are claiming that because he didn't say the words "Brexit will lead to WWIII" he didn't say that Brexit would lead to WWIII.

    It's just as silly (or sensible) as saying NATO has kept the peace in Europe since the Second World War and we should be wary of leaving it [because you might accidentally imply WWIII would break out]. Both organisations have had an effect in building confidence in peace. You can legitimately point out what it was like before and say they are doing useful jobs. It doesn't mean that War would break out if either organisation were disbanded or if we stopped being members, nor, for that matter, that either organisation will absolutely prevent war.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    The Guardian is reporting that Michael Howard is threatening war with Spain over Gibraltar.

    I read that and imagined him staggering around, can of Stella in hand, tie half mast, bellowing in a slur, "Come on then! I'll take the lot of ya!" outside a Tapas Bar.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Beautiful here in Leics tening to my garden, with the odd tea break to catch up on the Anglo-Spanish war and Arsenal imploding.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited April 2017

    TSE = a red Tory.... who knew....

    I've been called worse.

    I'm tempted to stick £50 on Spurs to win the title.
    I've had a little bet on them.

    If Manchester City beat Chelsea in midweek, Spurs could easily be within one point with a superior goal difference before Chelsea kick off next Saturday evening. The odds will tumble from 11s.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,312
    edited April 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Miss JGP, ah, was probably Mr. Bean's nemesis.

    At the back, and it could've been a Morgan.

    Ishmael_Z said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Vote Corbyn today for jam tomorrow!

    Good afternoon, Mr Dancer.

    Thought the bus was behind a F1 car today. A corner in the road revealed the front of the car - it was a 3-wheeler! Never seen a car like it before.
    Good afternoon.

    You must be even younger than I thought you were.
    Seen lots of 3-wheelers (my uncle had one - he had to lift the bonnet to kick-start the motorbike engine inside; family had to walk up significant hills) but never one with a rear view that looked like a F1 vehicle.
    Possibly a Bond Bug, one of the most 1970s things about the 1970s:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Road_Up_To_Honister_pass.jpg
    There are several sporty ones out there, eg

    http://tinyurl.com/htug59d

    Can't really see the point myself.

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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145

    Danny565 said:

    Apparently the full R&T predictions for national voteshare are (tucked away in Adam Boulton's column in the Times):

    Conservatives 31%
    Labour 29%
    Lib Dems 22%
    UKIP 10%

    Cheers, just stuck into the thread header

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/848542891496624128
    So its going to be:

    Rallings & Thrasher versus Curtice

    Council by-elections versus Opinion polls
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,953

    MattW said:

    Cyan said:

    Michael "he likes race horses" Howard says Theresa May would "go to war" to "protect" Gibraltar.

    Yet there is zero chance of a Spanish attack on Gibraltar. And it is Britain, not Spain, that is planning to make the border into not only an external EU one, but one across which there is no single market and no customs union [*], against the wishes of a large majority of the Gibraltar population.

    Do people get what is happening here?

    It also appears to me that there is not going to be a happy-clappy resolution to the Irish border question either, despite all the "we know how to solve problems" attitude that is being projected.

    (*) The only other such borders for thousands of miles are around Ceuta and Melilla, which are surrounded by Colditz-style fences.

    I understand that Howard was trying to be helpful to Theresa here, but I'm not sure that Leavers' using the language of WAR!!!! in Europe is at all wise. This whole business demands cool heads, or at least the appearance of them.
    Some media outlets picked up on the comments and interpreted them as meaning, "Theresa May would go to war to defend Gibraltar".

    This is a little uncharitable to the former home secretary and Conservative party leader, he didn't say that.


    http://news.sky.com/story/gibraltar-row-shows-scale-of-pms-brexit-challenge-10822312
    Media outlets contain a significantly large collection of people gagging for rip-roaring headlines.
    What was once the sole preserve of ‘tabloids’ has now been adopted by the broadsheets. Rip-roaring headlines sell papers and generate on-line clicks, it was ever thus.
    Unfortunately so, and it's probably only going to get worse. One of the biggest challenges for all involved in the negotiation process will be ignoring as much as possible what's said outside the room.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005

    2013 actual vote share in the English elections up this year

    Con 34.5%
    Lab 21.3%
    UKIP 20.2%
    LDem 13,7%
    Green 3.4%
    BNP 0.3%
    Ind/Others 6.6%

    and 2009 actual vote shares

    Con 43.5%
    LDem 24.7%
    Lab 13.5%
    UKIP 4.6%
    Green 4.4%
    BNP 2.5%
    Ind/Others 6.8%

    My forecast for this year

    Con 41
    LDem 21
    Lab 18
    UKIP 9
    Green 4
    Ind/Others 7

    Those numbers seem very plausible. They imply NEV 's of about 33% for the Conservatives, and 26% for Labour, a shocking result for the latter. But, Scotland will be worse.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,005
    Got to enjoy a fair bit of it on my walk back from Sunday lunch at the pub. Utterly glorious.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,953
    England in the spring looks awesome! Hopefully I'll get to see some of it this year.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Sandpit said:

    England in the spring looks awesome! Hopefully I'll get to see some of it this year.
    Hoping to come back and spend some time in Yorkshire. I do miss it
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    FF43 said:


    Some Rejoiners are claiming that because he didn't say the words "Brexit will lead to WWIII" he didn't say that Brexit would lead to WWIII.

    It's just as silly (or sensible) as saying NATO has kept the peace in Europe since the Second World War and we should be wary of leaving it [because you might accidentally imply WWIII would break out]. Both organisations have had an effect in building confidence in peace. You can legitimately point out what it was like before and say they are doing useful jobs. It doesn't mean that War would break out if either organisation were disbanded or if we stopped being members, nor, for that matter, that either organisation will absolutely prevent war.

    It's a perfectly fair point, and Cameron made it fairly. What astonishes me is that anyone would not understand, or understand but pretend not to, that Cameron's words are in substance a WWIII warning.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Watching the Boat Races - when I lived in Richmond in the early 70s I used to go on the bridge at Mortlake to watch the ending.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    Also, how does Sturgeon call a Scotish General election?

    Would the SNP improve on their position?
    It would depend entirely on turnout. If it was same as last time then no the SNP position wouldn't improve and could well significantly decay in the face of tactical unionist voting.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,155
    Ishmael_Z said:

    FF43 said:


    Some Rejoiners are claiming that because he didn't say the words "Brexit will lead to WWIII" he didn't say that Brexit would lead to WWIII.

    It's just as silly (or sensible) as saying NATO has kept the peace in Europe since the Second World War and we should be wary of leaving it [because you might accidentally imply WWIII would break out]. Both organisations have had an effect in building confidence in peace. You can legitimately point out what it was like before and say they are doing useful jobs. It doesn't mean that War would break out if either organisation were disbanded or if we stopped being members, nor, for that matter, that either organisation will absolutely prevent war.

    It's a perfectly fair point, and Cameron made it fairly. What astonishes me is that anyone would not understand, or understand but pretend not to, that Cameron's words are in substance a WWIII warning.
    On a betting site of all places, people should understand that a warning about the risk of something is not the same as a prediction that it will happen.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited April 2017
    Cambridge (ladies) so far out in front, only a stray log or Aussie protestor can stop them.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Cambridge (ladies) so far out in front, only a stray log or Aussie protestor can stop them.

    Oxford really blew the start. It's no race at all.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,185
    edited April 2017
    Tim_B said:

    Watching the Boat Races - when I lived in Richmond in the early 70s I used to go on the bridge at Mortlake to watch the ending.

    Am watching it from near Bishop's Park, first time I have been though pretty packed
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,793
    Sun Politics‏ @SunPolitics
    Jeremy Corbyn’s Shadow Local Government Secretary quits just weeks before party on course to lose vital seats in May
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Ishmael_Z said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Miss JGP, ah, was probably Mr. Bean's nemesis.

    At the back, and it could've been a Morgan.

    Ishmael_Z said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Vote Corbyn today for jam tomorrow!

    Good afternoon, Mr Dancer.

    Thought the bus was behind a F1 car today. A corner in the road revealed the front of the car - it was a 3-wheeler! Never seen a car like it before.
    Good afternoon.

    You must be even younger than I thought you were.
    Seen lots of 3-wheelers (my uncle had one - he had to lift the bonnet to kick-start the motorbike engine inside; family had to walk up significant hills) but never one with a rear view that looked like a F1 vehicle.
    Possibly a Bond Bug, one of the most 1970s things about the 1970s:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Road_Up_To_Honister_pass.jpg
    There are several sporty ones out there, eg

    http://tinyurl.com/htug59d

    Can't really see the point myself.

    The main point of a three wheeler was the ability to drive it on a motorcycle license, 3 wheels and less than 450kg as I recall. From 1982 the Motorcycle tests got harder so there are not many now with a M/C but not PLG licence. Two wheels at the front makes for better cornering. Reliants were horrible at going round corners.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    FF43 said:


    Some Rejoiners are claiming that because he didn't say the words "Brexit will lead to WWIII" he didn't say that Brexit would lead to WWIII.

    It's just as silly (or sensible) as saying NATO has kept the peace in Europe since the Second World War and we should be wary of leaving it [because you might accidentally imply WWIII would break out]. Both organisations have had an effect in building confidence in peace. You can legitimately point out what it was like before and say they are doing useful jobs. It doesn't mean that War would break out if either organisation were disbanded or if we stopped being members, nor, for that matter, that either organisation will absolutely prevent war.

    It's a perfectly fair point, and Cameron made it fairly. What astonishes me is that anyone would not understand, or understand but pretend not to, that Cameron's words are in substance a WWIII warning.
    On a betting site of all places, people should understand that a warning about the risk of something is not the same as a prediction that it will happen.
    Not a terribly strong point, as that is exactly what a warning is.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The Ospreys - Stade Francais odds look well wrong.

    Stade might be shit away from home but 4/1 is waaaaaay too long in a knock out competition.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,005

    Sun Politics‏ @SunPolitics
    Jeremy Corbyn’s Shadow Local Government Secretary quits just weeks before party on course to lose vital seats in May

    There are vital local government seats?? :p
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Ishmael_Z said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Miss JGP, ah, was probably Mr. Bean's nemesis.

    At the back, and it could've been a Morgan.

    Ishmael_Z said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Vote Corbyn today for jam tomorrow!

    Good afternoon, Mr Dancer.

    Thought the bus was behind a F1 car today. A corner in the road revealed the front of the car - it was a 3-wheeler! Never seen a car like it before.
    Good afternoon.

    You must be even younger than I thought you were.
    Seen lots of 3-wheelers (my uncle had one - he had to lift the bonnet to kick-start the motorbike engine inside; family had to walk up significant hills) but never one with a rear view that looked like a F1 vehicle.
    Possibly a Bond Bug, one of the most 1970s things about the 1970s:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Road_Up_To_Honister_pass.jpg
    There are several sporty ones out there, eg

    http://tinyurl.com/htug59d

    Can't really see the point myself.

    The main point of a three wheeler was the ability to drive it on a motorcycle license, 3 wheels and less than 450kg as I recall. From 1982 the Motorcycle tests got harder so there are not many now with a M/C but not PLG licence. Two wheels at the front makes for better cornering. Reliants were horrible at going round corners.
    Reliants were horrible at going round corners

    As proved conclusively by Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,781
    edited April 2017
    AnneJGP said:

    Miss JGP, ah, was probably Mr. Bean's nemesis.

    At the back, and it could've been a Morgan.

    Ishmael_Z said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Vote Corbyn today for jam tomorrow!

    Good afternoon, Mr Dancer.

    Thought the bus was behind a F1 car today. A corner in the road revealed the front of the car - it was a 3-wheeler! Never seen a car like it before.
    Good afternoon.

    You must be even younger than I thought you were.
    Seen lots of 3-wheelers (my uncle had one - he had to lift the bonnet to kick-start the motorbike engine inside; family had to walk up significant hills) but never one with a rear view that looked like a F1 vehicle.
    That wasn't a Frisky was it?

    That was the one where you started the engine backwards to reverse the car.

    image

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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,312

    Ishmael_Z said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Miss JGP, ah, was probably Mr. Bean's nemesis.

    At the back, and it could've been a Morgan.

    Ishmael_Z said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Vote Corbyn today for jam tomorrow!

    Good afternoon, Mr Dancer.

    Thought the bus was behind a F1 car today. A corner in the road revealed the front of the car - it was a 3-wheeler! Never seen a car like it before.
    Good afternoon.

    You must be even younger than I thought you were.
    Seen lots of 3-wheelers (my uncle had one - he had to lift the bonnet to kick-start the motorbike engine inside; family had to walk up significant hills) but never one with a rear view that looked like a F1 vehicle.
    Possibly a Bond Bug, one of the most 1970s things about the 1970s:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Road_Up_To_Honister_pass.jpg
    There are several sporty ones out there, eg

    http://tinyurl.com/htug59d

    Can't really see the point myself.

    The main point of a three wheeler was the ability to drive it on a motorcycle license, 3 wheels and less than 450kg as I recall. From 1982 the Motorcycle tests got harder so there are not many now with a M/C but not PLG licence. Two wheels at the front makes for better cornering. Reliants were horrible at going round corners.
    The ok ones seem to start at around £20k, for that you could get a shit hot sportsbike (or a decent car for that matter). I suppose in our recreational First World, all tastes and sub variations are catered for.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,132
    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    edited April 2017
    MattW said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Miss JGP, ah, was probably Mr. Bean's nemesis.

    At the back, and it could've been a Morgan.

    Ishmael_Z said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Vote Corbyn today for jam tomorrow!

    Good afternoon, Mr Dancer.

    Thought the bus was behind a F1 car today. A corner in the road revealed the front of the car - it was a 3-wheeler! Never seen a car like it before.
    Good afternoon.

    You must be even younger than I thought you were.
    Seen lots of 3-wheelers (my uncle had one - he had to lift the bonnet to kick-start the motorbike engine inside; family had to walk up significant hills) but never one with a rear view that looked like a F1 vehicle.
    That wasn't a Frisky was it?

    That was the one where you started the engine backwards to reverse the car.

    image

    No, I think it was a Bond:
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bond+3-wheeler&espv=2&tbm=isch&imgil=S1qy9xkROFXZ6M%3A%3BU4Nyrl2IZyAahM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.classicandperformancecar.com%252Fbond%252Fminicar%252F2926%252F1948-1965-bond-minicar-3-wheeler&source=iu&pf=m&fir=S1qy9xkROFXZ6M%3A%2CU4Nyrl2IZyAahM%2C_&usg=__lYxDREZdj7G_VE83_SdI_NTZyDI=&biw=1153&bih=635&ved=0ahUKEwiRi6n7l4bTAhVHI8AKHd7WDegQyjcIJQ&ei=FibhWJGoFMfGgAberbfADg#imgrc=S1qy9xkROFXZ6M:

    (edited to add, sorry, didn't realise the url was so long.)
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,005
    malcolmg said:

    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain

    It's just maneuvering to get more defence funding.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    malcolmg said:

    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain

    Far weaker because of Tory cuts before and after the Falklands. Remember John Nott walking out on Robin Day?
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Would post a picture from my office of this morning's glorious pastoral scene in MD, but I don't know how. Stunning, also. Indeed, almost like the British countryside.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,132
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain

    It's just maneuvering to get more defence funding.
    We could make a bridge with the Admirals we have and walk across.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    malcolmg said:

    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain

    I think they are overdosing on repeats of Dads Army. I read that the average age of BBC 2 viewers is 61.What is the average age and IQ now of Telegraph readers.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,005
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain

    It's just maneuvering to get more defence funding.
    We could make a bridge with the Admirals we have and walk across.
    I thought you'd be pleased.. this one was retired.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,132

    malcolmg said:

    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain

    Far weaker because of Tory cuts before and after the Falklands. Remember John Nott walking out on Robin Day?
    Must be close to the stage where you cannot call it a navy.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,324
    malcolmg said:

    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain

    Rejoice! Brexit may be dragging us into a war with Spain, but blue passports are to return. Hip hip hooray! (It's going to cost half a billion quid, but so what?)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/02/blue-passports-make-return-home-office-500-million-post-brexit/
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,005

    malcolmg said:

    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain

    Rejoice! Brexit may be dragging us into a war with Spain, but blue passports are to return. Hip hip hooray! (It's going to cost half a billion quid, but so what?)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/02/blue-passports-make-return-home-office-500-million-post-brexit/
    i think it was clarified that the cost is no more than usual. Poor reporting from the Telegraph (par, these days)
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain

    Rejoice! Brexit may be dragging us into a war with Spain, but blue passports are to return. Hip hip hooray! (It's going to cost half a billion quid, but so what?)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/02/blue-passports-make-return-home-office-500-million-post-brexit/
    i think it was clarified that the cost is no more than usual. Poor reporting from the Telegraph (par, these days)
    'no more than usual' - the cost is already astronomical compared to a US passport!
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Come on the dark blues!!
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited April 2017
    Time for the "amateur" land management students to do a spot of rowing...
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    A quick aerial shot of the south bank at Putney Bridge, where John Reginald Halliday Christie was arrested.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,005
    edited April 2017

    twitter.com/marinahyde/status/848567940685365248

    *yawn* Guardian columnist doesn't like Brexit shocker.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain

    Rejoice! Brexit may be dragging us into a war with Spain, but blue passports are to return. Hip hip hooray! (It's going to cost half a billion quid, but so what?)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/02/blue-passports-make-return-home-office-500-million-post-brexit/
    i think it was clarified that the cost is no more than usual. Poor reporting from the Telegraph (par, these days)
    I believe there is a term for that....I just can't quite recall what it is....
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,312
    edited April 2017
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Glenn, worth noting we learnt hugely valuable things from ethically dubious experiments.

    In the 1950s, babies were routinely physically separated from their mothers. A very dodgy experiment, which involved deliberately terrifying babies, was conducted to see if they'd flee to an image of their mother, or a soft and cuddly toy.

    They went for the toy, and policy was changed to encourage tactile parent-child interaction.

    That change has affected millions of children to positive effect. Was it worth being rather horrendous to a few hundred (I think that was the number of subjects involved, not entirely sure)?

    Mind you, not all experiments work well. In the 1970s, the US tried to get psychopaths to open up through group therapy, and mend them that way. They tried this, it seemed to work, and the psychopaths were released. Unfortunately, it seemed they had connected. But not in a good way. They'd swapped tips on evading the police and committing crimes, and the authorities had quite the time of it trying to catch them.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,109
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    UK gets ever more dire. Telegraph now speculating on who will win the war
    Britain's Navy is 'far weaker' than it was during the Falklands but could still 'cripple' Spain

    Rejoice! Brexit may be dragging us into a war with Spain, but blue passports are to return. Hip hip hooray! (It's going to cost half a billion quid, but so what?)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/02/blue-passports-make-return-home-office-500-million-post-brexit/
    i think it was clarified that the cost is no more than usual. Poor reporting from the Telegraph (par, these days)
    To be fair, if given a chance the civil service could probably spend two billion pounds changing the font size of one character on the fifth page of a form that is used by four people a year ...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,005
    Given that HM has entertained IRA terrorists I am sure it'll be an absolute breeze.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Oxford's power is really showing through. Fewer strokes per minute but already nearly a length ahead...
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Can the Supreme Court issue an injunction to prevent the Scottish Government from holding or abetting an unauthorised referendum in breach of the Scotland Act?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,806


    The main point of a three wheeler was the ability to drive it on a motorcycle license, 3 wheels and less than 450kg as I recall. From 1982 the Motorcycle tests got harder so there are not many now with a M/C but not PLG licence. Two wheels at the front makes for better cornering. Reliants were horrible at going round corners.

    Surely the prime case of the tax tail waving the dog. Cars come in all sorts of shapes, sizes and prices, but the one basic requirement of all them is four wheels.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    RobD said:

    Sun Politics‏ @SunPolitics
    Jeremy Corbyn’s Shadow Local Government Secretary quits just weeks before party on course to lose vital seats in May

    There are vital local government seats?? :p
    Only in the sense of numbers to be lost.
    Green and pleasant indeed. Was out for a walk across some fields in the spring sunshine - glorious.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    One thing I notice watching the boat race is that they always used to point out the landmarks - Harrods Furniture depository, Fulham ground, Barnes railway bridge etc. They don't do any of that now.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,312
    Cyan said:

    Can the Supreme Court issue an injunction to prevent the Scottish Government from holding or abetting an unauthorised referendum in breach of the Scotland Act?

    Look, let's get past the shock of Dupont-Aignan winning the French presidency before we entertain hypothetical scenarios.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,896
    Afternoon again all :)

    To pick up on an earlier comment, it does look as though the Coalition losses from 2013 are going to unwind quite dramatically on May 4th. As Ishmael (I think) said in response to my previous, the big losses suffered by the LDs were to the Conservatives in 2009 (including Devon and Somerset) but these were masked by LD gains from Labour.

    The Con-LD battle on May 4th will be interesting though one of a number on that day.

    I think the 2018 locals and especially the London contests will be critical for Labour and Corbyn. Labour has currently over 1000 London Councillors - they could suffer big numerical losses and only lose a few Councils (Croydon, Redbridge, Hammersmith & Fulham) but the loss of councillors would be significant in a heartland area.

    Are we still wittering on about Gibraltar ?
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    Cyan said:

    Can the Supreme Court issue an injunction to prevent the Scottish Government from holding or abetting an unauthorised referendum in breach of the Scotland Act?

    Look, let's get past the shock of Dupont-Aignan winning the French presidency before we entertain hypothetical scenarios.
    It was a question about jurisdiction. In any case, this is a betting site and therefore about hypothetical scenarios.
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    OUTOUT Posts: 569
    Cyan said:

    Can the Supreme Court issue an injunction to prevent the Scottish Government from holding or abetting an unauthorised referendum in breach of the Scotland Act?

    Won't get that far, the orange order,boy scouts, women's institute and the RSPB will take action to prevent it.
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    Hurrah. Cambridge still ahead of Oxford overall.

    Form is temporary, class is permanent.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Tim_B said:

    One thing I notice watching the boat race is that they always used to point out the landmarks - Harrods Furniture depository, Fulham ground, Barnes railway bridge etc. They don't do any of that now.

    Instead they try to keep the race interesting throughout when it's clear who was likely to win for 3/4 of it..

    Well done to Cowley Tech!

    Maybe the Tabs should discontinue Land Economy... :)
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Hurrah. Cambridge still ahead of Oxford overall.

    Form is temporary, class is permanent.

    Not for much longer on the form of the last decade...

    Winning isn't everything.........it's the only thing.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    RobD said:

    twitter.com/marinahyde/status/848567940685365248

    *yawn* Guardian columnist doesn't like Brexit shocker.
    Cheers for helping out there.
    I had no idea who she was so I just skimmed past it.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,729
    In 2012 Brits were more likely to say they wanted the nation’s big issues to be decided by referendum. Now there is a twenty point lead for letting Parliament decide
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/28/british-public-turns-against-referendums/
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,416
    I'm with Curtice on this one. Given current polling a net loss of 50 seats would not be much short of spectacular for Labour. I expect them to lose more than that in Scotland. And maybe twice that in England and Wales.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Hurrah. Cambridge still ahead of Oxford overall.

    Form is temporary, class is permanent.

    Bull. You had a bigger heavier crew and lost.. suck it up.
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    Tim_B said:

    A quick aerial shot of the south bank at Putney Bridge, where John Reginald Halliday Christie was arrested.

    Yes, the chilling final words of Timothy Evans with the noose around his neck .... "Christie done it".
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    I baked and decorated my EU flag cake today. It was a bit of a struggle to keep it together because I took it out of the oven too soon and so it started to collapse slightly... that will be the UK bit trying to break away I guess. Anyway, I gave it a bit more time in the oven and it all came together in the end. Certainly a far better result for me than the referendum was. I'm about to tuck in now. :D
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    I didn't know Isabel hardman and John woodcock were an item until today's scotch egg tweets. good on them.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,009

    I didn't know Isabel hardman and John woodcock were an item until today's scotch egg tweets. good on them.

    Both suffering with depression too, quite unusual
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,030
    I assume she is one of the lunatics we have let out of the asylum.
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited April 2017

    I baked and decorated my EU flag cake today. It was a bit of a struggle to keep it together because I took it out of the oven too soon and so it started to collapse slightly... that will be the UK bit trying to break away I guess. Anyway, I gave it a bit more time in the oven and it all came together in the end. Certainly a far better result for me than the referendum was. I'm about to tuck in now. :D

    Spring was never waiting for us, girl
    It ran one step ahead
    As we followed in the dance
    Between the parted pages and were pressed
    In love's hot, fevered iron
    Like a striped pair of pants
    MacArthur's Park is melting in the dark
    All the sweet, green icing flowing down
    Someone left the cake out in the rain
    I don't think that I can take it
    'Cause it took so long to bake it
    And I'll never have that recipe again
    Oh no!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,155
    And to think Michael Howard was the safe pair of hands who helped his protégé Cameron save the Tory party from being marginalised and extreme on Europe... The current polls disguise a very severe sickness.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited April 2017
    I'm intrigued by the notion of how Scotland would hypothetically transition out of the UK given the way things are going with the UK/EU split.

    In 2014 it was sold as referendum one day, independence 18 months later.

    Contrast that to the relatively simple task of extricating the UK from the EU.

    Referendum Day
    Nine month wait for formal notification as the departing government organises itself
    Two years to sort out exit and transitional arrangements
    ??? to implement.

    That's with a few tens of thousands of shared pensions, a pot of debt that is just a €240bn on a €14tn economy, negligible levels of entanglement on many areas and a tiny redistributive budget between states in comparison..

    How on earth does it work with 65m people with shared welfare and pension arrangements, £2tn of debt and almost complete government, citizen and public sector employee entanglement etc and what timescale does anyone place on it?

    And that's before the departing party is allowed to go off and negotiate alternative arrangements, which usually involve vetoes by those with pre-ownership (see Gibraltar).
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,083
    edited April 2017
    Excellent day watching Essex play Durham Uni. I wonder, does Durham MCCU include Sunderland as Cambridge MCCU now includes Anglia Ruskin?

    Edit: apparently not. Shame.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    DavidL said:

    I'm with Curtice on this one. Given current polling a net loss of 50 seats would not be much short of spectacular for Labour. I expect them to lose more than that in Scotland. And maybe twice that in England and Wales.

    I think R&T predictions are just for England? Although I could be wrong.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,030
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The Guardian is reporting that Michael Howard is threatening war with Spain over Gibraltar. A bit surprised, he always seemed pretty sensible.

    I suspect Howard was just saying that Theresa's commitment to Gibraltar goes as far as possible in the Brexit era - up to and (theoretically) including armed conflict. (Let's not be like the Leave campaign and completely fabricate the existence of WAR!!!! rhetoric in Dave's speech.) Nevertheless even to mention WAR!!!! doesn't help matters in these sensitive times. Howard needs to duck out for a bit and let things simmer down.
    It was Cameron who said voting LEAVE would risk World War Three.
    No we've debunked that. Even Leavers on here accept Dave never uttered it.
    Nope we have not debunked it., You are another of the revisionists happy to lie about what happened and in what order to try and disprove something embarrassing. The sort of sordid behaviour we have come to expect from extremists like you.
    Erm Richard, you said yourself that the words never crossed Dave's lips. Okay, you also posit the existence of some mysterious early draft of the speech that was floating about. I find that difficult to believe myself, but even if true it merely serves as a flimsy excuse for Leave's misrepresentations of Dave's utterances rather than a justification.
    What is this bollocks about Cameron not warning of WW3 if we left?

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-on-the-uks-strength-and-security-in-the-eu-9-may-2016

    And there is video of him actually saying it, from 18:24 on.
    Stark will just claim that isn't him.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,324

    I assume she is one of the lunatics we have let out of the asylum.
    She's not the one speculating about going to war with a NATO ally. I'm afraid that's your crowd, Richard.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,155
    chestnut said:

    I'm intrigued by the notion of how Scotland would hypothetically transition out of the UK given the way things are going with the UK/EU split.

    In 2014 it was sold as referendum one day, independence 18 months later.

    Contrast that to the relatively simple task of extricating the UK from the EU.

    This is the wrong way round.

    Creating a new state is relatively straightforward and has been done countless times before. Extricating a state, maintaining continuity, from the network of treaties that is the EU has never been done, and is an order of magnitude more complex.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    chestnut said:

    I'm intrigued by the notion of how Scotland would hypothetically transition out of the UK given the way things are going with the UK/EU split.

    In 2014 it was sold as referendum one day, independence 18 months later.

    Contrast that to the relatively simple task of extricating the UK from the EU.

    This is the wrong way round.

    Creating a new state is relatively straightforward and has been done countless times before. Extricating a state, maintaining continuity, from the network of treaties that is the EU has never been done, and is an order of magnitude more complex.
    ... but Scotland is going to have two new relationships: one with the UK AND one with the EU.
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited April 2017
    Don't just blame the Guardian for the war against Spain meme. The Telegraph are at it too:

    Headline: "Royal Navy 'far weaker' than it was during Falklands War".

    First line: "Britain's Royal Navy is substantially weaker than it was during the Falklands War but could still 'cripple' Spain, military experts have said."

    Normally even when they are playing war games against Russia, they don't publicly identify the imaginary adversary. A major change is happening here.

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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,324
    edited April 2017

    And to think Michael Howard was the safe pair of hands who helped his protégé Cameron save the Tory party from being marginalised and extreme on Europe... The current polls disguise a very severe sickness.

    It was very disappointing from Howard, whom I've often quite admired. It's given the Brexit ultras, who want to utterly wreck our relationship with the EU, the perfect opportunity to stir up the sh*t.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    I assume she is one of the lunatics we have let out of the asylum.
    She's not the one speculating about going to war with a NATO ally. I'm afraid that's your crowd, Richard.
    I thought democratic countries never go to war against each other.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,155

    chestnut said:

    I'm intrigued by the notion of how Scotland would hypothetically transition out of the UK given the way things are going with the UK/EU split.

    In 2014 it was sold as referendum one day, independence 18 months later.

    Contrast that to the relatively simple task of extricating the UK from the EU.

    This is the wrong way round.

    Creating a new state is relatively straightforward and has been done countless times before. Extricating a state, maintaining continuity, from the network of treaties that is the EU has never been done, and is an order of magnitude more complex.
    ... but Scotland is going to have two new relationships: one with the UK AND one with the EU.
    If it happens while the UK is under the A50 process or in transition, the UK will be a vassal of the EU and they will dictate the terms: in effect the rUK will have no choice but to stay in the single market.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    chestnut said:

    I'm intrigued by the notion of how Scotland would hypothetically transition out of the UK given the way things are going with the UK/EU split.

    In 2014 it was sold as referendum one day, independence 18 months later.

    Contrast that to the relatively simple task of extricating the UK from the EU.

    This is the wrong way round.

    Creating a new state is relatively straightforward and has been done countless times before. Extricating a state, maintaining continuity, from the network of treaties that is the EU has never been done, and is an order of magnitude more complex.
    I think the 5th biggest economy in the world will somehow manage.

    Where would Scotland rank; even in the top 50?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,005
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,106

    chestnut said:

    I'm intrigued by the notion of how Scotland would hypothetically transition out of the UK given the way things are going with the UK/EU split.

    In 2014 it was sold as referendum one day, independence 18 months later.

    Contrast that to the relatively simple task of extricating the UK from the EU.

    This is the wrong way round.

    Creating a new state is relatively straightforward and has been done countless times before. Extricating a state, maintaining continuity, from the network of treaties that is the EU has never been done, and is an order of magnitude more complex.
    ... but Scotland is going to have two new relationships: one with the UK AND one with the EU.
    If it happens while the UK is under the A50 process or in transition, the UK will be a vassal of the EU and they will dictate the terms: in effect the rUK will have no choice but to stay in the single market.
    How so? What meaningful difference will it make? Embarrassing, maybe, but England is the economic might on this Island.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,005

    chestnut said:

    I'm intrigued by the notion of how Scotland would hypothetically transition out of the UK given the way things are going with the UK/EU split.

    In 2014 it was sold as referendum one day, independence 18 months later.

    Contrast that to the relatively simple task of extricating the UK from the EU.

    This is the wrong way round.

    Creating a new state is relatively straightforward and has been done countless times before. Extricating a state, maintaining continuity, from the network of treaties that is the EU has never been done, and is an order of magnitude more complex.
    ... but Scotland is going to have two new relationships: one with the UK AND one with the EU.
    If it happens while the UK is under the A50 process or in transition, the UK will be a vassal of the EU and they will dictate the terms: in effect the rUK will have no choice but to stay in the single market.
    The UK will be a vassal of the EU? I thought we never lost sovereignty? :D
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,155

    chestnut said:

    I'm intrigued by the notion of how Scotland would hypothetically transition out of the UK given the way things are going with the UK/EU split.

    In 2014 it was sold as referendum one day, independence 18 months later.

    Contrast that to the relatively simple task of extricating the UK from the EU.

    This is the wrong way round.

    Creating a new state is relatively straightforward and has been done countless times before. Extricating a state, maintaining continuity, from the network of treaties that is the EU has never been done, and is an order of magnitude more complex.
    ... but Scotland is going to have two new relationships: one with the UK AND one with the EU.
    If it happens while the UK is under the A50 process or in transition, the UK will be a vassal of the EU and they will dictate the terms: in effect the rUK will have no choice but to stay in the single market.
    How so? What meaningful difference will it make? Embarrassing, maybe, but England is the economic might on this Island.
    England is not the economic or political might in this continent, and we are now a supplicant to the EU indefinitely if we don't want to jump off a cliff edge.
This discussion has been closed.