What frightens me - and I am happy to admit it - is that we will indeed start to see where you are born determining where you are allowed to go and what you are allowed to do.
This is inevitable. Large numbers of Muslims want to come and live in the west. To enjoy our prosperity and freedom. At the same time these incoming Muslims refuse to give up values hostile to those freedoms. Indeed there is plentiful evidence the Muslims become more hostile to us, the longer they stay, and expect the locals to bend to Muslim values.
This is the point at which westerners en masse say, no fuck off, if you don't adopt our values, fuck off home, and we don't want any more of you here. As the Dutch prime minister said the other day (in a slightly more polite way, but only slightly)
So, yeah, Muslims are deemed less desirable as citizens, in the west. It is in the nature of being Islamic. Which part of this does Helen Lewis, or Southam, not understand?
Did the Amish change their way of life when they emigrated to the US ? Did the Hasidic Jews ? In any case, the vast majority of Muslims are just like anybody. They go to work , pay their taxes etc.
There are people you see on the TV everyday like Mishal Husain etc. On the other hand, someone like Jim Al-Khalili, the astro-physicist cannot go to the US because he was born in Baghdad.
Do these people strike you as odd ? They are, if anything, enhancing our values.
He may well be doing them a favour , they may hate it and be far better off staying where they are. One wonders why so many people clamour to get to the west rather than improve their own countries.
Why did so many Scots leave for America, like Trump's mother ? Why dod they not stay back and "improve" their country.
What is sauce for the goose, ........................
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
Horse feathers. Bush visited when he was deeply unpopular so they adapted the visit accordingly - no carriage ride down the Mall, for example.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
Maybe. But by then Trump will be six months into the job, and he will either be used to protests wherever he goes (which he will get) or he will have stopped going anywhere, as a result. So, maybe not.
Nixon was thin skinned and hated the vast protests against him but was re elected in 1972 easily
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
Horse feathers. Bush visited when he was deeply unpopular so they adapted the visit accordingly - no carriage ride down the Mall, for example.
Can you see any way this ends other than Trump thinking, "Screw the Brits?"
'Agricultural goods of defined origin ditto, though quotas would be needed in line with CAP, and documentation to exclude secondary imports of chlorine chicken, hormone beef etc.'
But chlorine water OK ?
yes, no problem with that.
The reason chlorine wash is used in american poultry slaughterhouses is because of the high rates of fecal contamination in these. The chlorine wash is to reduce the surface contamination in order to meet bacterial guidlines. It is ineffective for deepe contamination, but that is not tested by surface swabs. It is not chlorine per se that is the problem, but rather the underlying reason that it is needed. Slower production lines with better basic hygiene, as currently required in the UK and EU, is strongly preferable, but more expensive. It is why chlorine chicken is cheap.
On the one hand I think prejudicing our relationship with the world's foremost economic power is extremely counterproductive.
On the other I'm feeling bad for the Queen.
Why are you feeling bad for the Queen? She's married to Phillip for gods sake.
Good point, just worried Trump might try to do something inappropriate. Grabbing May's hand looked odd to me, if he was to do that to the Queen though :i
She's had plenty of experience of unsavoury characters:
Winner of US presidential election implements his manifesto.
The World recoils in horror.
Discuss.
The PB posse who were saying not to take Trump literally and that he would probably end up being quite reasonable are presumably part of the world's recoil.
Though I do realise that their powers of amnesia are a wonder of medical science.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
Horse feathers. Bush visited when he was deeply unpopular so they adapted the visit accordingly - no carriage ride down the Mall, for example.
Can you see anyway this ends other than Trump thinking, "Screw the Brits?"
The Germans, the Mexicans, the Canadians, the French, the Chinese have already said screw Trump. Trump cannot just rely on Putin and Netanyahu alone, he needs another G20 and Security Council leader leader who is not completely hostile and that is May and of course given the large number of protests in D.C., New York and LA against him I doubt he expects much different in London
What frightens me - and I am happy to admit it - is that we will indeed start to see where you are born determining where you are allowed to go and what you are allowed to do.
This is inevitable. Large numbers of Muslims want to come and live in the west. To enjoy our prosperity and freedom. At the same time these incoming Muslims refuse to give up values hostile to those freedoms. Indeed there is plentiful evidence the Muslims become more hostile to us, the longer they stay, and expect the locals to bend to Muslim values.
This is the point at which westerners en masse say, no fuck off, if you don't adopt our values, fuck off home, and we don't want any more of you here. As the Dutch prime minister said the other day (in a slightly more polite way, but only slightly)
So, yeah, Muslims are deemed less desirable as citizens, in the west. It is in the nature of being Islamic. Which part of this does Helen Lewis, or Southam, not understand?
Did the Amish change their way of life when they emigrated to the US ? Did the Hasidic Jews ? In any case, the vast majority of Muslims are just like anybody. They go to work , pay their taxes etc.
There are people you see on the TV everyday like Mishal Husain etc. On the other hand, someone like Jim Al-Khalili, the astro-physicist cannot go to the US because he was born in Baghdad.
Do these people strike you as odd ? They are, if anything, enhancing our values.
He may well be doing them a favour , they may hate it and be far better off staying where they are. One wonders why so many people clamour to get to the west rather than improve their own countries.
Why did so many Scots leave for America, like Trump's mother ? Why dod they not stay back and "improve" their country.
What is sauce for the goose, ........................
Seems reasonably apt as an insight into US thinking given the fall-out around UK 'duallers'.
It seems renunciation of US citizenship has been increasing steadily over the last decade also.
<There were 235 renunciants in 2008,[25] between 731 and 743 in 2009, and about 1485 in 2010;[26][27] In 2011, there were 1781 renunciants.[28] A total of 2,999 Americans renounced their citizenship in 2013;[29] in 2014, 3415 have renounced their USA citizenship or long term residency.[30] The State Department estimates 5986 renunciants and 559 relinquishers during FY2015.[31]
On the one hand I think prejudicing our relationship with the world's foremost economic power is extremely counterproductive.
On the other I'm feeling bad for the Queen.
Why are you feeling bad for the Queen? She's married to Phillip for gods sake.
Good point, just worried Trump might try to do something inappropriate. Grabbing May's hand looked odd to me, if he was to do that to the Queen though :i
She's had plenty of experience of unsavoury characters:
Winner of US presidential election implements his manifesto.
The World recoils in horror.
Discuss.
Isn't that just what everyone's been doing ?
And you might also consider, given how many assured us prior to his election that Trump's words didn't actually reflect what he really believed, 'implements his manifesto' is not as unworthy of notice as you imply.
The paradox is that in those days, people from his background feared that universal suffrage would produce left wing policies. Now, a lot of them worry that universal suffrage prevents left wing policies.
I'm pretty sure that a Referendum that had been held on a pre-1918 franchise, mostly excluding young men, non-ratepayers, and all women, would have produced a Leave majority.
Not sure I would agree with your second point. If men only had had the vote, Labour would have won every election from 1945 to 1992 (in theory, making the dangerous and frankly unwarranted assumption people would have voted the same way). Moreover the wealthier in society seem to have been more for remain.
It is however (in light of your first point) ironic to reflect that the wider the franchise gets, the better the Conservatives have done. Prior to 1867 they had not won an overall majority since 1841, and that was the first one they had managed since 1808. In the next 18 years, admittedly, the record was three-one (1868, 1880 and 1885 against 1874) to the Liberals. After that, however, only three times in the next 100 years did they concede a majority of more than ten to another single party (1906, 1945 and 1966). If we take that to the 75 years after 1918, the record falls to a jaw-dropping 2, and they only lost (as in, came second in) six/seven elections in total (add 1929, 1950, 1964 and October 1974 - February is a difficult one as Labour won the seat count but lost the popular vote - to that list) and they spent a mere 23 years out of 78 in opposition - by far the most successful democratic party in European, arguably world history. (The Republicans controlled the Presidency for all but sixteen years between 1860 and 1932, but for much of the time faced a Democratic congress.)
How far that is due to the franchise and how far due to other factors (the franchise was hardly responsible for the implosion of the Liberals over Ireland in 1885-86, or the preternatural uselessness of Labour in the 1950s and 1980s) I don't know and I haven't enough data to speculate. Anyone know of any good books out there that might help? I seem to remember one called 'Conservative Century' some years ago, but I haven't read it and I can't remember much about it.
@SophyRidgeSky: The Polish Deputy Prime Minister tells me financial services jobs are already starting to move from the UK to Poland due to Brexit #ridge
He's wrong. They were going anyway. Brexit is just a convenient excuse
Brexit will be to blame for everything for years, it will be used and abused as cover for all sorts of shaftings.
As it should be. The educated / intelligentsia voted Remain overwhelmingly. They will remind the rest for a long time to come.
Really? I thought the split for ABC1s was 56:44 - perhaps I'm mis-remembering. Or perhaps you're speaking of academia, in which case, point cheerfully conceded.
Surbiton won't be happy until we return to the days of voting qualifications which exclude the lumpen masses.
One of my new words learned solely due to the extended cri de coeur from my intellectual betters is 'epistocracy'. I wonder if we'll ever see it implemented. Hopefully, not in my lifetime.
Perhaps an example of epistocracy in an old persian saying:
He who knows not but knows that he knows not - teach him He who knows not and knows not that he knows not - shun him He who knows and knows that he knows - follow him
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
I think that's over-stating it, but it's pretty obvious his Reichstag fire is going to be Islamic terrorism. His opponents need to prosecute the case that he's *incompetent*. There's no point convincing people that he's an arsehole if they think he's their arsehole.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
Horse feathers. Bush visited when he was deeply unpopular so they adapted the visit accordingly - no carriage ride down the Mall, for example.
Can you see anyway this ends other than Trump thinking, "Screw the Brits?"
The Germans, the Mexicans, the Canadians, the French, the Chinese have already said screw Trump. Trump cannot just rely on Putin and Netanyahu alone, he needs another G20 and Security Council leader leader who is not completely hostile and that is May and of course given the large number of protests in D.C., New York and LA against him I doubt he expects much different in London
They may be whining jsut now but they will buckle down when it looks like their trade is about to be chopped
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
I think that's over-stating it, but it's pretty obvious his Reichstag fire is going to be Islamic terrorism. His opponents need to prosecute the case that he's *incompetent*. There's no point convincing people that he's an arsehole if they think he's their arsehole.
On the one hand I think prejudicing our relationship with the world's foremost economic power is extremely counterproductive.
On the other I'm feeling bad for the Queen.
Why are you feeling bad for the Queen? She's married to Phillip for gods sake.
Good point, just worried Trump might try to do something inappropriate. Grabbing May's hand looked odd to me, if he was to do that to the Queen though :i
She's had plenty of experience of unsavoury characters:
If Theresa May is to continue enabling Trump in his neo fascist agenda, I will.consider her less electable than Jezza
I think you will find a lot of heads nodding and saying brave man, a bit over the top but someone needs to sort it out and at least he is first one to try. Only Liberal lefties will be crying into their quinoa.
Thing is, however mad, when it comes to Muslim immigration in Europe... he's completely right. Isn't he? And hundreds of millions of Europeans will quietly but discreetly agree.
Of course he is right, and yes they will.
This is what happens when the establishment ignores and dismisses perfectly valid concerns of millions of reasonable people
On the one hand I think prejudicing our relationship with the world's foremost economic power is extremely counterproductive.
On the other I'm feeling bad for the Queen.
She has suffered far worse than Trump , it will be a breeze for her.
You're not going to like this.....but we agree again!
Anyone who can put up the atrocious Caecescu and his ghastly wife (Labour government) will take Trump easily in her stride...
To be fair to the former Romanain dictator, he never said - at least in public - that he could have had sex with the Queen's former daughter-in-law or that he wanted to see her current grand-daughter-in-law (?) naked.
Unless you’re Donald Trump who, it’s becoming apparent, is 70 going on three. Britain hopes to tempt him here with a state visit, but that in itself is not enough for him. Trump reportedly wants a grander visit than any of his predecessors.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
A hero's welcome? They've just got 100,000 signatures in half an hour saying the trip should be cancelled.
Winner of US presidential election implements his manifesto.
The World recoils in horror.
Discuss.
Did he say in his manifesto that he would prevent people who have made the US their home, paid taxes there and never committed a crime there from re-entering the country should they leave? Did it state that British citizens would be banned from entry depending on where in the world they were born?
Unless you’re Donald Trump who, it’s becoming apparent, is 70 going on three. Britain hopes to tempt him here with a state visit, but that in itself is not enough for him. Trump reportedly wants a grander visit than any of his predecessors.
@SophyRidgeSky: The Polish Deputy Prime Minister tells me financial services jobs are already starting to move from the UK to Poland due to Brexit #ridge
He's wrong. They were going anyway. Brexit is just a convenient excuse
Brexit will be to blame for everything for years, it will be used and abused as cover for all sorts of shaftings.
As it should be. The educated / intelligentsia voted Remain overwhelmingly. They will remind the rest for a long time to come.
Really? I thought the split for ABC1s was 56:44 - perhaps I'm mis-remembering. Or perhaps you're speaking of academia, in which case, point cheerfully conceded.
Surbiton won't be happy until we return to the days of voting qualifications which exclude the lumpen masses.
One of my new words learned solely due to the extended cri de coeur from my intellectual betters is 'epistocracy'. I wonder if we'll ever see it implemented. Hopefully, not in my lifetime.
Perhaps an example of epistocracy in an old persian saying:
He who knows not but knows that he knows not - teach him He who knows not and knows not that he knows not - shun him He who knows and knows that he knows - follow him
Its roots go back a long way, clearly.
By the bye, this is an interesting read on Trump's ban. I'm not sure it's any less partial, but it does at least present some historical data for context, which I always like:
On the one hand I think prejudicing our relationship with the world's foremost economic power is extremely counterproductive.
On the other I'm feeling bad for the Queen.
Why are you feeling bad for the Queen? She's married to Phillip for gods sake.
Good point, just worried Trump might try to do something inappropriate. Grabbing May's hand looked odd to me, if he was to do that to the Queen though :i
She's had plenty of experience of unsavoury characters:
Weren't the Ceausescus not fully toilet trained or somesuch ?
Though that didn't stop Nicolae been given a knighthood and Elena getting honorary doctorates from the Royal Society of Chemistry and Central London polytechnic (now Westminster University).
I know that Nicolae had the knighthood removed after he had been overthrown but did Elana lose the honorary doctorates ?
Unless you’re Donald Trump who, it’s becoming apparent, is 70 going on three. Britain hopes to tempt him here with a state visit, but that in itself is not enough for him. Trump reportedly wants a grander visit than any of his predecessors.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
A hero's welcome? They've just got 100,000 signatures in half an hour saying the trip should be cancelled.
I doubt if Trump will get a hero's welcome, but the outrage about his visit is mostly confined to places that voted Yes to AV.
On the one hand I think prejudicing our relationship with the world's foremost economic power is extremely counterproductive.
On the other I'm feeling bad for the Queen.
She has suffered far worse than Trump , it will be a breeze for her.
You're not going to like this.....but we agree again!
Anyone who can put up the atrocious Caecescu and his ghastly wife (Labour government) will take Trump easily in her stride...
Can we please avoid knighting him though?
Not forgetting Mugabe was knighted as well or the Iraq war and the Suez crisis, the Ceacescu knighthood remains the most grotesque, avoidable and embarrassing foreign policy disaster by a British government since the Second World War. The Romanians have not forgotten.
On the one hand I think prejudicing our relationship with the world's foremost economic power is extremely counterproductive.
On the other I'm feeling bad for the Queen.
She has suffered far worse than Trump , it will be a breeze for her.
You're not going to like this.....but we agree again!
Anyone who can put up the atrocious Caecescu and his ghastly wife (Labour government) will take Trump easily in her stride...
Trump is far worse than Caecescu. He can actually cause us and the world serious damage which he seems hell bent on doing. Caecescu could only harm Romanians.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
Horse feathers. Bush visited when he was deeply unpopular so they adapted the visit accordingly - no carriage ride down the Mall, for example.
Can you see anyway this ends other than Trump thinking, "Screw the Brits?"
The Germans, the Mexicans, the Canadians, the French, the Chinese have already said screw Trump. Trump cannot just rely on Putin and Netanyahu alone, he needs another G20 and Security Council leader leader who is not completely hostile and that is May and of course given the large number of protests in D.C., New York and LA against him I doubt he expects much different in London
They may be whining jsut now but they will buckle down when it looks like their trade is about to be chopped
On the one hand I think prejudicing our relationship with the world's foremost economic power is extremely counterproductive.
On the other I'm feeling bad for the Queen.
Why are you feeling bad for the Queen? She's married to Phillip for gods sake.
Good point, just worried Trump might try to do something inappropriate. Grabbing May's hand looked odd to me, if he was to do that to the Queen though :i
She's had plenty of experience of unsavoury characters:
Weren't the Ceausescus not fully toilet trained or somesuch ?
Though that didn't stop Nicolae been given a knighthood and Elena getting honorary doctorates from the Royal Society of Chemistry and Central London polytechnic (now Westminster University).
I know that Nicolae had the knighthood removed after he had been overthrown but did Elana lose the honorary doctorates ?
It's all a bit moot, given that she was sent before a firing squad.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
A hero's welcome? They've just got 100,000 signatures in half an hour saying the trip should be cancelled.
I doubt if Trump will get a hero's welcome, but the outrage about his visit is mostly confined to places that voted Yes to AV.
@matt_dathan: Sadiq Khan signals he'll back a Trump visit only when he lifts ban: 'I don't think there should be a state visit while this ban is in place'
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
I think that's over-stating it, but it's pretty obvious his Reichstag fire is going to be Islamic terrorism. His opponents need to prosecute the case that he's *incompetent*. There's no point convincing people that he's an arsehole if they think he's their arsehole.
What's Tokyo's policy on Islamic immigration ?
Tokyo doesn't have an immigration policy, because there is free movement within Japan and such things are decided at national level. Japan's immigration system doesn't discriminate by religion.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
A hero's welcome? They've just got 100,000 signatures in half an hour saying the trip should be cancelled.
I doubt if Trump will get a hero's welcome, but the outrage about his visit is mostly confined to places that voted Yes to AV.
In political circles a good part of the outrage is in places that supported 'global Brexit', and therein lies the problem for May.
100,000 now signed up to save HMQ from embarrassment.
170,000 now. Clictivism in action.
I think she should just accept it as part of the job and issue some suitable remarks via her press secretary, like the comment 'think very carefully' on the Indy ref. She's had to entertain far worse characters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceaușescu
@matt_dathan: Sadiq Khan signals he'll back a Trump visit only when he lifts ban: 'I don't think there should be a state visit while this ban is in place'
Unless you’re Donald Trump who, it’s becoming apparent, is 70 going on three. Britain hopes to tempt him here with a state visit, but that in itself is not enough for him. Trump reportedly wants a grander visit than any of his predecessors.
If Theresa May is to continue enabling Trump in his neo fascist agenda, I will.consider her less electable than Jezza
I think you will find a lot of heads nodding and saying brave man, a bit over the top but someone needs to sort it out and at least he is first one to try. Only Liberal lefties will be crying into their quinoa.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
I think that's over-stating it, but it's pretty obvious his Reichstag fire is going to be Islamic terrorism. His opponents need to prosecute the case that he's *incompetent*. There's no point convincing people that he's an arsehole if they think he's their arsehole.
What's Tokyo's policy on Islamic immigration ?
Tokyo doesn't have an immigration policy, because there is free movement within Japan and such things are decided at national level. Japan's immigration system doesn't discriminate by religion.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
A hero's welcome? They've just got 100,000 signatures in half an hour saying the trip should be cancelled.
I doubt if Trump will get a hero's welcome, but the outrage about his visit is mostly confined to places that voted Yes to AV.
Well as I doubt Hartlepool and Clacton are on his itinerary I imagine most of his time will be confined to places that voted YES.
Winner of US presidential election implements his manifesto.
The World recoils in horror.
Discuss.
Did he say in his manifesto that he would prevent people who have made the US their home, paid taxes there and never committed a crime there from re-entering the country should they leave? Did it state that British citizens would be banned from entry depending on where in the world they were born?
Yes, pretty obvious implication from the far right manifesto he ran under.
Nobody gets to absolve themselves of responsibility at this point. We know what he was, he told us many times what he was.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
A hero's welcome? They've just got 100,000 signatures in half an hour saying the trip should be cancelled.
I doubt if Trump will get a hero's welcome, but the outrage about his visit is mostly confined to places that voted Yes to AV.
In political circles a good part of the outrage is in places that supported 'global Brexit', and therein lies the problem for May.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
A hero's welcome? They've just got 100,000 signatures in half an hour saying the trip should be cancelled.
I doubt if Trump will get a hero's welcome, but the outrage about his visit is mostly confined to places that voted Yes to AV.
So, just over 48% of the population. Isn't this supposed to be a time of healing and coming together? Clearly, by walking hand-in-hand with President Trump our PM is failing to achieve that aim.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
I think that's over-stating it, but it's pretty obvious his Reichstag fire is going to be Islamic terrorism. His opponents need to prosecute the case that he's *incompetent*. There's no point convincing people that he's an arsehole if they think he's their arsehole.
What's Tokyo's policy on Islamic immigration ?
Tokyo doesn't have an immigration policy, because there is free movement within Japan and such things are decided at national level. Japan's immigration system doesn't discriminate by religion.
Doubt Tokyo will elect a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant mayor any time soon.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
A hero's welcome? They've just got 100,000 signatures in half an hour saying the trip should be cancelled.
I doubt if Trump will get a hero's welcome, but the outrage about his visit is mostly confined to places that voted Yes to AV.
So, just over 48% of the population. Isn't this supposed to be a time of healing and coming together? Clearly, by walking hand-in-hand with President Trump our PM is failing to achieve that aim.
I wonder if the hand grab by Trump was entirely because he was about to launch this policy? Hard to know what TM the PM could have done, I think it is harsh to blame her
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
I think that's over-stating it, but it's pretty obvious his Reichstag fire is going to be Islamic terrorism. His opponents need to prosecute the case that he's *incompetent*. There's no point convincing people that he's an arsehole if they think he's their arsehole.
What's Tokyo's policy on Islamic immigration ?
Tokyo doesn't have an immigration policy, because there is free movement within Japan and such things are decided at national level. Japan's immigration system doesn't discriminate by religion.
Unless you’re Donald Trump who, it’s becoming apparent, is 70 going on three. Britain hopes to tempt him here with a state visit, but that in itself is not enough for him. Trump reportedly wants a grander visit than any of his predecessors.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
A hero's welcome? They've just got 100,000 signatures in half an hour saying the trip should be cancelled.
Oh, it's an opinion piece......not exactly double sourced?
I'm glad people can fill their time signing online petitions, and perhaps after they've held "the biggest demonstration ever in the UK" which eclipses the Iraq anti war demonstration - and yet the Bush state visit still went ahead......the U.K. Government will change......absolutely nothing...
I know I have just sort of compared Trump to Ceaucescu, or at least, cautioned against a similar treatment of the two.
However, has Trump had a quarter of a million people locked up, 80% of them dying in prison? Has he put half a million convicts to work digging a canal in the hope that they will all die of starvation and exhaustion? Has he built vast palaces, roads and military barracks clothing his wife in luxury using the money of his people as they live in poverty and hunger all around him?
Moving to the Saddam comparisons, has he gassed thousands of people of a different race to seize their lands and break their resistance? Has he mustered all the children in a village, got them to dig a grave, then had them machine gunned while their parents were forced to watch and applaud? Has he randomly threatened to invade his neighbours? Has he put his son in charge of all entertainment so that he can take his pick of which attractive young women to rape and even murder?
Trump is an arsehole. He will not be a good president at home and he is making a poor impression abroad. But these comparisons to dictators are not plausible and the hysterical nature of such posts merely makes his opponents look, well, rather out of touch with reality. There is no way he could be that bad, because the US Army would not support him and Congress would remove him if he even began to look that bad. We could I think even say he's not comparable to FDR, the nearest thing America's ever had to a dictator, although ironically many of their economic and racial policies are extremely similar (substituting Muslims for blacks).
So can we just criticise him for the stupid, unnecessary and damaging things he does, rather than comparing him to people who actually were, when you look rationally, a damn sight worse than he was? It would be much pleasanter all around.
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
A hero's welcome? They've just got 100,000 signatures in half an hour saying the trip should be cancelled.
I doubt if Trump will get a hero's welcome, but the outrage about his visit is mostly confined to places that voted Yes to AV.
So, just over 48% of the population. Isn't this supposed to be a time of healing and coming together? Clearly, by walking hand-in-hand with President Trump our PM is failing to achieve that aim.
Wrong referendum. Besides, being as pedantic as remoaners over the EUref; it was only 10% of the population that voted Yes.
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump Our country needs strong borders and extreme vetting, NOW. Look what is happening all over Europe and, indeed, the world - a horrible mess! 1:08 PM - 29 Jan 2017
The policy has been implemented as an instantaneous executive order, and the details haven't been properly worked out, but why is it is wrong per se? If anything, it may be too restricted to be effective - why doesn't it cover all countries in the Levant and Arabia, extending to Pakistan?
@PaulBrandITV: Hard to see how Trump visit will be anything other than disaster now. Even if PM ignores outrage, thin-skinned President will hate protests.
When he receives a hero's welcome from the public, the anti-democratic fuddy duddies will stroke out.
A hero's welcome? They've just got 100,000 signatures in half an hour saying the trip should be cancelled.
I doubt if Trump will get a hero's welcome, but the outrage about his visit is mostly confined to places that voted Yes to AV.
So, just over 48% of the population. Isn't this supposed to be a time of healing and coming together? Clearly, by walking hand-in-hand with President Trump our PM is failing to achieve that aim.
Yes to AV. Not the EU
Southam is a good European. He stops paying attention as soon as he gets to yes.
Comments
Hornsey 1,021
Hackney N 995
Islington N 940
Hackney S 900
With Islington S at 675 and Tottenham at 564 the winner of most 'right-on' borough is Hackney.
Meanwhile Doncaster North is at only 86 - EdM was never quite right there was he.
What is sauce for the goose, ........................
82 in Stoke and 66 in Copeland.
The World recoils in horror.
Discuss.
Anyone who can put up the atrocious Caecescu and his ghastly wife (Labour government) will take Trump easily in her stride...
There is an extraneous "there" in your final sentence.
http://listverse.com/2014/08/07/10-deeply-embarrassing-pieces-of-political-memorabilia/
Weren't the Ceausescus not fully toilet trained or somesuch ?
Though I do realise that their powers of amnesia are a wonder of medical science.
https://twitter.com/dawnbutlerbrent/status/825670651860103170
I think the head of GCHQ bailed at the right time.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-dual-citizenship-20141228-story.html
Seems reasonably apt as an insight into US thinking given the fall-out around UK 'duallers'.
It seems renunciation of US citizenship has been increasing steadily over the last decade also.
<There were 235 renunciants in 2008,[25] between 731 and 743 in 2009, and about 1485 in 2010;[26][27] In 2011, there were 1781 renunciants.[28] A total of 2,999 Americans renounced their citizenship in 2013;[29] in 2014, 3415 have renounced their USA citizenship or long term residency.[30] The State Department estimates 5986 renunciants and 559 relinquishers during FY2015.[31]
'Hudson, get the rubber under sheets out.'
And you might also consider, given how many assured us prior to his election that Trump's words didn't actually reflect what he really believed, 'implements his manifesto' is not as unworthy of notice as you imply.
It is however (in light of your first point) ironic to reflect that the wider the franchise gets, the better the Conservatives have done. Prior to 1867 they had not won an overall majority since 1841, and that was the first one they had managed since 1808. In the next 18 years, admittedly, the record was three-one (1868, 1880 and 1885 against 1874) to the Liberals. After that, however, only three times in the next 100 years did they concede a majority of more than ten to another single party (1906, 1945 and 1966). If we take that to the 75 years after 1918, the record falls to a jaw-dropping 2, and they only lost (as in, came second in) six/seven elections in total (add 1929, 1950, 1964 and October 1974 - February is a difficult one as Labour won the seat count but lost the popular vote - to that list) and they spent a mere 23 years out of 78 in opposition - by far the most successful democratic party in European, arguably world history. (The Republicans controlled the Presidency for all but sixteen years between 1860 and 1932, but for much of the time faced a Democratic congress.)
How far that is due to the franchise and how far due to other factors (the franchise was hardly responsible for the implosion of the Liberals over Ireland in 1885-86, or the preternatural uselessness of Labour in the 1950s and 1980s) I don't know and I haven't enough data to speculate. Anyone know of any good books out there that might help? I seem to remember one called 'Conservative Century' some years ago, but I haven't read it and I can't remember much about it.
He who knows not but knows that he knows not - teach him
He who knows not and knows not that he knows not - shun him
He who knows and knows that he knows - follow him
He was conventionally toilet trained but has done some more advanced training subsequently with the help of some expert young ladies.
Neville Chamberlain was PM for almost 3 years - longer than Gordon Brown and far longer than Anthony Eden .
This is what happens when the establishment ignores and dismisses perfectly valid concerns of millions of reasonable people
What a piece of work Irving is.
Unless you’re Donald Trump who, it’s becoming apparent, is 70 going on three. Britain hopes to tempt him here with a state visit, but that in itself is not enough for him. Trump reportedly wants a grander visit than any of his predecessors.
However, that might be a high risk strategy. I can see how that would suddenly turn every Democrat into a raging nativist!
Let it be known though for the record, that I did not say the things he is accusing me of.
If he changes name again be sure to alert me so I know not to comment
By the bye, this is an interesting read on Trump's ban. I'm not sure it's any less partial, but it does at least present some historical data for context, which I always like:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria
I know that Nicolae had the knighthood removed after he had been overthrown but did Elana lose the honorary doctorates ?
Not forgetting Mugabe was knighted as well or the Iraq war and the Suez crisis, the Ceacescu knighthood remains the most grotesque, avoidable and embarrassing foreign policy disaster by a British government since the Second World War. The Romanians have not forgotten.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trump-s-tantrums-risk-making-his-presidency-a-disaster-g7w0qmgl7
You're probably right.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/757178/Donald-Trump-Queen-Balmoral-golf-official-state-visit
Hope she isn't planning a trip to the US anytime in the next few yrs.
I imagine most of his time will be confined to places that voted YES.
Nobody gets to absolve themselves of responsibility at this point. We know what he was, he told us many times what he was.
It's the drawbridgers who are staying silent.
If I commented I might be banned!
I'm glad people can fill their time signing online petitions, and perhaps after they've held "the biggest demonstration ever in the UK" which eclipses the Iraq anti war demonstration - and yet the Bush state visit still went ahead......the U.K. Government will change......absolutely nothing...
https://twitter.com/markrobsoninfo/status/801079051871862785
I know I have just sort of compared Trump to Ceaucescu, or at least, cautioned against a similar treatment of the two.
However, has Trump had a quarter of a million people locked up, 80% of them dying in prison? Has he put half a million convicts to work digging a canal in the hope that they will all die of starvation and exhaustion? Has he built vast palaces, roads and military barracks clothing his wife in luxury using the money of his people as they live in poverty and hunger all around him?
Moving to the Saddam comparisons, has he gassed thousands of people of a different race to seize their lands and break their resistance? Has he mustered all the children in a village, got them to dig a grave, then had them machine gunned while their parents were forced to watch and applaud? Has he randomly threatened to invade his neighbours? Has he put his son in charge of all entertainment so that he can take his pick of which attractive young women to rape and even murder?
Trump is an arsehole. He will not be a good president at home and he is making a poor impression abroad. But these comparisons to dictators are not plausible and the hysterical nature of such posts merely makes his opponents look, well, rather out of touch with reality. There is no way he could be that bad, because the US Army would not support him and Congress would remove him if he even began to look that bad. We could I think even say he's not comparable to FDR, the nearest thing America's ever had to a dictator, although ironically many of their economic and racial policies are extremely similar (substituting Muslims for blacks).
So can we just criticise him for the stupid, unnecessary and damaging things he does, rather than comparing him to people who actually were, when you look rationally, a damn sight worse than he was? It would be much pleasanter all around.
Something fishy going on with this petition. I clicked a link to it from Twitter and it appears to have auto-signed it. https://t.co/ya8TXhBFdU
Our country needs strong borders and extreme vetting, NOW. Look what is happening all over Europe and, indeed, the world - a horrible mess!
1:08 PM - 29 Jan 2017
The policy has been implemented as an instantaneous executive order, and the details haven't been properly worked out, but why is it is wrong per se? If anything, it may be too restricted to be effective - why doesn't it cover all countries in the Levant and Arabia, extending to Pakistan?
How true!