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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP’s leader, Doc Nuttall, no longer odds-on favourite to tak

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    John_M said:

    dixiedean said:

    Brexit capital or no, if UKIP can't win in Stoke with their leader standing, they won't win any Labour seats. Their much publicised Northern breakthrough will last as long as Jurgen Klopp's wonder side. Will have to go back to pestering Tories on the East coast.

    Yep, this is their Gettysburg. Weak local candidate vs party leader. Strong Leave vote. Labour leader madder by the day. If they can't win Stoke, we can stick a fork in 'em and call it done.
    I'm still not convinced it is easy as all that.

    In Copeland, the Cons are only 2k votes behind so can hope to win on differential turnout without needing switchers. It is also a clear 2 horse race
    In Stoke, UKIP are 5k votes behind and competing with the Cons for second place. Even if some Lab sit on their hands, UKIP still also need to get switchers from either Con or Lab.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091

    Mr. Jessop, by that, I'm referring to the apparent necessity of us leaving this Euratom thingummyjig only to rejoin it immediately as an associate.

    Why is that silly from their point of view? It might be eminently sensible.

    If they let us back in, that is.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,078

    Mr. Jessop, by that, I'm referring to the apparent necessity of us leaving this Euratom thingummyjig only to rejoin it immediately as an associate.

    Actually, Mr D, our departure from Euratom is specified in the A50 Bill.
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    dr_spyn said:
    So many of these occurrences of these incidents now, I think we need a thread on top 10...I think my favourite was the one where he is approached, comes towards the camera / reporter, reporter says Mr corbyn .... from sky news and he does an about turn and runs through some doors.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    King Cole, ah, well that seems even sillier.

    Mr. Jessop, having a mechanism to leave but making it tedious for those concerned is daft.

    Mr. Vale2, I also think the Lib Dems will be resurgent. Aren't they focusing on Stoke?
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Mr. Jessop, by that, I'm referring to the apparent necessity of us leaving this Euratom thingummyjig only to rejoin it immediately as an associate.

    Actually, Mr D, our departure from Euratom is specified in the A50 Bill.
    Only because Lisbon+ says we have to.
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    Another angry 'winner'. Presumably he hasn't found enough drinkable liberals' tears to soothe his savage breast.

    "DA: Man kicked Muslim woman at JFK airport, said 'Trump is here now'"

    http://tinyurl.com/j6a938x
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It seems that some of our resident Leavers are having difficulty with the concept that Brexit means Brexit.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091

    King Cole, ah, well that seems even sillier.

    Mr. Jessop, having a mechanism to leave but making it tedious for those concerned is daft.

    Mr. Vale2, I also think the Lib Dems will be resurgent. Aren't they focusing on Stoke?

    Multiple countries are involved. Lawyers are involved. Worse, highly paid, international lawyers are involved. They want tedious, partly because they earn more, and partly because the agreements have to have a certain complexity.

    As an aside, has any lawyer ever simplified a contract or agreement ? ;)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Mr. Jessop, quite agree.

    [I must be quite tired too, I almost called you King Jessop].
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    Quite the opposite. Do you know what " chaos " means ?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091

    Quite the opposite. Do you know what " chaos " means ?
    Yes. Your point being?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091

    Mr. Jessop, quite agree.

    [I must be quite tired too, I almost called you King Jessop].

    Pleb Jessop, please. )
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    King Cole, ah, well that seems even sillier.

    Mr. Jessop, having a mechanism to leave but making it tedious for those concerned is daft.

    Mr. Vale2, I also think the Lib Dems will be resurgent. Aren't they focusing on Stoke?

    Multiple countries are involved. Lawyers are involved. Worse, highly paid, international lawyers are involved. They want tedious, partly because they earn more, and partly because the agreements have to have a certain complexity.

    As an aside, has any lawyer ever simplified a contract or agreement ? ;)
    Define "simplify":

    http://politicalbetting.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/negotiations-and-love-songs-why.html
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    Quite the opposite. Do you know what " chaos " means ?
    Yes. Your point being?
    My point would be obvious if you knew the real rather than vulgar meaning of chaos.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091

    Quite the opposite. Do you know what " chaos " means ?
    Yes. Your point being?
    My point would be obvious if you knew the real rather than vulgar meaning of chaos.
    I do know, thanks. I stand by my words. Now, your point is?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Plebius Jessopius Minimus?

    A nice feature of Roman names was that significant feats would get you a new name. So, Titus Manlius slew a massive Gaul in a duel and took his torque, and became Titus Manlius Torquatus. Marcus Valerius did something similar but was aided by a crow, and became Marcus Valerius Corvus.

    Does make me wonder what names our politicians would have added. David Hubris Cameron? Edward Stone Miliband? Margaret Falklands Thatcher?
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I find it quite bizarre that UKIP were ever favourites for this seat. I expect a pretty comfortable Labour hold on a very low turnout.

    I'd expect turnout to be better than 'very low', even accepting the Stoke Central baseline. I'd be surprised if it's not in the 30s. On that basis, Labour should hold. If it is sub-25, UKIP will stand a good chance. Mike's point is right though: UKIP are not very good at election campaigning and are short of important data which will matter.

    DavidL is quite right that it's bizarre that UKIP were ever favourites given these drags on their vote share and where they're starting from. Personally, I reckon they should be nearer 2/1.
    Oh yes, I was not suggesting anything lower than 30%. In the 30s is very low for a Parliamentary vote.
    It's not all that low for a by-election. The turnouts this parliament have been:

    40.3 - Oldham W
    33.2 - Sheffield Brightside
    43.0 - Ogmore
    42.5 - Tooting
    25.8 - Batley & Spen
    46.8 - Witney
    53.4 - Richmond Park
    37.1 - Sleaford

    So the middle half form the range 37-43. The lower 30s is lowish for a by-election (and that's where I think Stoke will come in) but it's nothing extraordinary.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091
    SeanT said:

    Another angry 'winner'. Presumably he hasn't found enough drinkable liberals' tears to soothe his savage breast.

    "DA: Man kicked Muslim woman at JFK airport, said 'Trump is here now'"

    http://tinyurl.com/j6a938x

    Note that in this story the culprit faces "four years in jail" for causing "some redness in the woman's shins". America is as mad as us. Hence, Trump.
    I find it odd that someone who a couple of days ago was crying over a tragic picture of a victim of Nazi aggression - including comments about her being beaten before death - now excuses violence by talking about "some redness in the woman's shins".

    Violence of any sort is to be abhorred, not excused.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    Plebius Jessopius Minimus?

    A nice feature of Roman names was that significant feats would get you a new name. So, Titus Manlius slew a massive Gaul in a duel and took his torque, and became Titus Manlius Torquatus. Marcus Valerius did something similar but was aided by a crow, and became Marcus Valerius Corvus.

    Does make me wonder what names our politicians would have added. David Hubris Cameron? Edward Stone Miliband? Margaret Falklands Thatcher?

    That's still theoretically the case in Britain. Viscount Montgomery of Alemein, for example.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    Quite the opposite. Do you know what " chaos " means ?
    Surely chaos has no meaning?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,032

    SeanT said:

    Another angry 'winner'. Presumably he hasn't found enough drinkable liberals' tears to soothe his savage breast.

    "DA: Man kicked Muslim woman at JFK airport, said 'Trump is here now'"

    http://tinyurl.com/j6a938x

    Note that in this story the culprit faces "four years in jail" for causing "some redness in the woman's shins". America is as mad as us. Hence, Trump.
    I find it odd that someone who a couple of days ago was crying over a tragic picture of a victim of Nazi aggression - including comments about her being beaten before death - now excuses violence by talking about "some redness in the woman's shins".

    Violence of any sort is to be abhorred, not excused.
    US loves long sentences...4 years will be what is asked for, not given.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The "special relationship" at work

    @ShippersUnbound: "The United States is responsible for the United States' policy on refugees". May fails again to condemn Trump

    @RobDotHutton: And this after twice ignoring the question when politely asked. We had to shout it out. twitter.com/ShippersUnboun…

    @paulwaugh: Proud to say we in the Lobby heckled the PM until she answered the question about Trump's Muslim and refugee ban.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091

    King Cole, ah, well that seems even sillier.

    Mr. Jessop, having a mechanism to leave but making it tedious for those concerned is daft.

    Mr. Vale2, I also think the Lib Dems will be resurgent. Aren't they focusing on Stoke?

    Multiple countries are involved. Lawyers are involved. Worse, highly paid, international lawyers are involved. They want tedious, partly because they earn more, and partly because the agreements have to have a certain complexity.

    As an aside, has any lawyer ever simplified a contract or agreement ? ;)
    Define "simplify":

    http://politicalbetting.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/negotiations-and-love-songs-why.html
    That's a great article, thanks.

    BTW, did your prediction: "It will tinker round the edges, but I expect the tax legislation to be lengthier in 2014 than it is today" come true?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Mr. Herdson, not really. Titles associated with places are different to an additional name which may or may not have a geographical aspect. There's Scipio Africanus, of course, but also Quintus Fabius Maximus.
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    Reductive pish is certainly Tessy's go-to strategy when she can't think of anything else.

    https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/825379999712735234
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    It seems that some of our resident Leavers are having difficulty with the concept that Brexit means Brexit.

    It seems that some of our resident Remainers have not learned to avoid being smug and self satisfied in their scorn for the views of others.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091

    Plebius Jessopius Minimus?

    A nice feature of Roman names was that significant feats would get you a new name. So, Titus Manlius slew a massive Gaul in a duel and took his torque, and became Titus Manlius Torquatus. Marcus Valerius did something similar but was aided by a crow, and became Marcus Valerius Corvus.

    Does make me wonder what names our politicians would have added. David Hubris Cameron? Edward Stone Miliband? Margaret Falklands Thatcher?

    If 'significant feats' get me a new name, would I be Plebius Jessopius Littoreus Ambulans ?

    (my Latin's awful, so please feel free to rip the above to shreds).
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Mortimer said:

    It seems that some of our resident Leavers are having difficulty with the concept that Brexit means Brexit.

    It seems that some of our resident Remainers have not learned to avoid being smug and self satisfied in their scorn for the views of others.
    I thought I was merely being explanatory and educating the great unwashed of PB. Now my feelings are all bruised and everything.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Mr. Jessop, mine's awful too, so I only get the Ambulans bit.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Ed_Miliband: PM's refusal to condemn Trump Muslim ban is shocking, wrong and cannot stand. It flies in the face of the values of people across Britain.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    John_M said:

    Mr. Jessop, by that, I'm referring to the apparent necessity of us leaving this Euratom thingummyjig only to rejoin it immediately as an associate.

    Actually, Mr D, our departure from Euratom is specified in the A50 Bill.
    Only because Lisbon+ says we have to.
    So if I've got this straight, it's because the Lisbon Treaty supersedes membership of Euratom. So all those hyper-ventilating scientists should calm down, we have not suddenly turned anti-science or anti-nuclear it's simply that we won't be able to be a member of Euratom due to EU membership, we will have to replace it with an associate membership like Switzerland.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    Mr. Herdson, not really. Titles associated with places are different to an additional name which may or may not have a geographical aspect. There's Scipio Africanus, of course, but also Quintus Fabius Maximus.

    I accept that it's not quite the same in that a title doesn't form part of the name per se, but it is still an inherited attribute of the name so surely a close modern parallel? (And there is form from Rome for an overlap between the two, at the very highest level, with Caesar, Augustus and Imperator having all been personal taken names of Octavian - albeit that Imperator was itself a title taken as a name).
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Mr. Herdson, more of an inherited option, I think, for the names of Romans.

    There is some similarity.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    glw said:

    John_M said:

    Mr. Jessop, by that, I'm referring to the apparent necessity of us leaving this Euratom thingummyjig only to rejoin it immediately as an associate.

    Actually, Mr D, our departure from Euratom is specified in the A50 Bill.
    Only because Lisbon+ says we have to.
    So if I've got this straight, it's because the Lisbon Treaty supersedes membership of Euratom. So all those hyper-ventilating scientists should calm down, we have not suddenly turned anti-science or anti-nuclear it's simply that we won't be able to be a member of Euratom due to EU membership, we will have to replace it with an associate membership like Switzerland.
    First there was Lisbon (2007). Then there was the EU Amendment Act (2008). This incorporated Euratom under the auspices of the EU (it was originally created under the Treaty of Rome).

    Therefore, when we invoke article 50, Euratom is one of the agencies that we automagically leave. As you say, May hasn't suddenly run amok and decided that nukes are evil.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791
    Scott_P said:

    @Ed_Miliband: PM's refusal to condemn Trump Muslim ban is shocking, wrong and cannot stand. It flies in the face of the values of people across Britain.

    Seriously, if you're praying in favour of Ed Miliband (who? - ed.) wait until you find a better quote.
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    Scott_P said:

    @Ed_Miliband: PM's refusal to condemn Trump Muslim ban is shocking, wrong and cannot stand. It flies in the face of the values of people across Britain.

    Trump is out of order and I doubt this policy will last long.

    Theresa May's response that America has it's policy and UK has ours is the only response most every leader would give.

    But those on the left will continue with their fury but I am not sure it will take them far
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited January 2017

    Reductive pish is certainly Tessy's go-to strategy when she can't think of anything else.

    https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/825379999712735234

    Talking of pish. Is Sturgeon personally housing any refugees yet as she promised she would ?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/year-nicola-sturgeon-refugees/
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    John_M said:

    Therefore, when we invoke article 50, Euratom is one of the agencies that we automagically leave. As you say, May hasn't suddenly run amok and decided that nukes are evil.

    We are going to see a whole series of eruptions of ill-informed outrage as it sinks in what leaving the EU means, aren't we?
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited January 2017
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    Would this be the same France that has banned the burqa, and the same Germany that proposes to do the same? Unlike Britain and America?

    Just checking.
    And telling women how much to wear at beaches.and banning headscarves in schools etc.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P said:
    No sucking up here, no siree!


    Separately, Germany and France are also continuing to work on creating a joint tactical airlift pool of Lockheed Martin Corp C-130J military transport planes, a spokesman for the German defense ministry said on Saturday.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Plebius Jessopius Minimus?

    A nice feature of Roman names was that significant feats would get you a new name. So, Titus Manlius slew a massive Gaul in a duel and took his torque, and became Titus Manlius Torquatus. Marcus Valerius did something similar but was aided by a crow, and became Marcus Valerius Corvus.

    Does make me wonder what names our politicians would have added. David Hubris Cameron? Edward Stone Miliband? Margaret Falklands Thatcher?

    Nigel Aeroplane Farage
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,125
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I find it quite bizarre that UKIP were ever favourites for this seat. I expect a pretty comfortable Labour hold on a very low turnout.

    Have you seen Labour's candidate, Snell ? Unprepossessing and uninspiring even by their dismal standards.
    Doesn't matter. This is donkey territory and he just about makes the grade for that.
    David, did you get any good data from your pensions presentation the other week
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited January 2017
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    Would this be the same France that has banned the burqa, and the same Germany that proposes to do the same? Unlike Britain and America?

    Just checking.
    Here's the French foreign minister's coruscating condemnation of Trump. I'm sure he'll be a-quaking in his boots:

    "This can only worry us, but there are many subjects that worry us, welcoming refugees who flee war and oppression is part of our duty."

    The Germans put the boot in:

    "The United States is a country where Christian traditions have an important meaning. Loving your neighbor is a major Christian value, and that includes helping people."

    Lacerating.
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    Did the PB Tories' 'Tessy will be a good influence on the Don' line last even 24 hrs?
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    Scott_P said:
    Concern but no condemnation and no statement from Merkel or Hollande

    Lets hear Merkel and Hollande stand up and condemn the policy and for Merkel to cancel the recent German order for military planes in protest
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    edited January 2017
    John_M said:

    Mortimer said:

    It seems that some of our resident Leavers are having difficulty with the concept that Brexit means Brexit.

    It seems that some of our resident Remainers have not learned to avoid being smug and self satisfied in their scorn for the views of others.
    I thought I was merely being explanatory and educating the great unwashed of PB. Now my feelings are all bruised and everything.
    :)

    Re Ed Miliband, of whom Scott and Paste seems to be the latest fanboi, does he follow every tweet with an awkward rephrasing to make sure people get the stilted sound bite??
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Did the PB Tories' 'Tessy will be a good influence on the Don' line last even 24 hrs?

    Ummm. No.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    glw said:

    John_M said:

    Therefore, when we invoke article 50, Euratom is one of the agencies that we automagically leave. As you say, May hasn't suddenly run amok and decided that nukes are evil.

    We are going to see a whole series of eruptions of ill-informed outrage as it sinks in what leaving the EU means, aren't we?
    I wonder how many people who are outraged at the UK leaving Euratom have any idea what it does.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited January 2017
    SeanT said:

    I can't believe Sarah Perry's searing, bleak, heartfelt Guardian confessional of modern human suffering - Did Writing A Novel Make Me Ill? - has only received two comments in five hours. It's like people have become inured to the horror.


    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jan/28/did-writing-a-book-make-me-ill-graves-disease-sarah-perry?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    She's very pretty. Maybe you could comfort her.You could tell her you feel her pain.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Mortimer said:

    Re Ed Miliband, does he follow every tweet with an awkward rephrasing to make sure people get the stilted sound bite??

    The BBC seem to have got the message OK

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/825385825298944001
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    isamisam Posts: 41,008
    Newcastle drifted from 1.8 to 2.2 on team news.. 3-0 Oxford!
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    Reductive pish is certainly Tessy's go-to strategy when she can't think of anything else.

    https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/825379999712735234

    Talking of pish. Is Sturgeon personally housing any refugees yet as she promised she would ?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/year-nicola-sturgeon-refugees/
    Squirrelsquirrelsquirrelsquirrelsquirrel
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Scott_P said:

    @Ed_Miliband: PM's refusal to condemn Trump Muslim ban is shocking, wrong and cannot stand. It flies in the face of the values of people across Britain.

    Trump is out of order and I doubt this policy will last long.

    Theresa May's response that America has it's policy and UK has ours is the only response most every leader would give.

    But those on the left will continue with their fury but I am not sure it will take them far
    I think the policy needs to be a bit more sensitively applied. It seems unnecessary to apply it to people who are Green cardholders already.

    A moratorium on new applications, and across a wider range of countries, while drafting new more stringent requirements would be entirely reasonable.

    It does seem Trump has torn up the refugee convention. Rather unfair on legitimate refugees, but the existing convention does need extensive revision.
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    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Ed_Miliband: PM's refusal to condemn Trump Muslim ban is shocking, wrong and cannot stand. It flies in the face of the values of people across Britain.

    Trump is out of order and I doubt this policy will last long.

    Theresa May's response that America has it's policy and UK has ours is the only response most every leader would give.

    But those on the left will continue with their fury but I am not sure it will take them far
    Genuine question: why is Trump "out of order"? He was elected on a platform of banning Muslim migration altogether. If anything, this edict is milder than his mandated proposal.
    He has citizens unable to re - enter his country
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Another angry 'winner'. Presumably he hasn't found enough drinkable liberals' tears to soothe his savage breast.

    "DA: Man kicked Muslim woman at JFK airport, said 'Trump is here now'"

    http://tinyurl.com/j6a938x

    Note that in this story the culprit faces "four years in jail" for causing "some redness in the woman's shins". America is as mad as us. Hence, Trump.
    I find it odd that someone who a couple of days ago was crying over a tragic picture of a victim of Nazi aggression - including comments about her being beaten before death - now excuses violence by talking about "some redness in the woman's shins".

    Violence of any sort is to be abhorred, not excused.
    The man's a dick, probably a drunken dick (he flew in "from Aruba"). Give him a sobering fine, some public shame, or a few weeks in the clink. I doubt he will do it again.

    The girl in the photo was fourteen years old. She was gassed or killed by phenol injection. Your attempt to find equivalence is as absurd as it is repulsive.
    It is neither. Your words just show that your blubbing the other day was as false as your fiction.

    And the equivalence is simple: this idiot's actions was the sort of hatred that allowed Nazism to breed in Germany in the 1930s. And your attitude - a turning of the cheek amongst the moderately sane - aided and abetted it.

    A woman was trying to do her job, and she was harassed and assaulted. I bet the fact it happened in an airport won't exactly be a mitigating factor.
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    daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    SeanT said:

    viewcode said:

    So it seems that Trump's visa ban includes green cards for citizens from the "Axis of Islam". People who may have lawfully lived in the US for decades and who happened to be on holiday this week are being barred from re-entering.

    If memory serves, that happened to Charlie Chaplin. Although surprisingly I have not a lot of sympathy here. If you intend to live in a country long-term and don't take out at least dual citizenship, you do lay yourself open to this sort of thing.
    I wonder about the media hysteria over what Trump has done. Banning people from certain Muslim countries?

    Europe is hyper-ventilating, yet recall that Geert Wilders is likely to come first in the Dutch elections, and he wants to ban The Koran.

    This anti-Islamic discourse is inevitable, and will grow, and it will become mainstream, unless there is some miraculous Enlightenment within Islam itself. Trump is the future.
    There is a significant difference between Trump and the European far right. Trump is just opposed to Islamism, whereas the mainland European nationalists (FN/Jobbik/AfD etc.) are anti-muslim per se, and also antisemitic (unlike Trump, or UKIP).
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    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Ed_Miliband: PM's refusal to condemn Trump Muslim ban is shocking, wrong and cannot stand. It flies in the face of the values of people across Britain.

    Trump is out of order and I doubt this policy will last long.

    Theresa May's response that America has it's policy and UK has ours is the only response most every leader would give.

    But those on the left will continue with their fury but I am not sure it will take them far
    Genuine question: why is Trump "out of order"? He was elected on a platform of banning Muslim migration altogether. If anything, this edict is milder than his mandated proposal.
    He has citizens unable to re - enter his country
    No, he doesn't.
    Are you sure
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Scott_P said:

    Mortimer said:

    Re Ed Miliband, does he follow every tweet with an awkward rephrasing to make sure people get the stilted sound bite??

    The BBC seem to have got the message OK

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/825385825298944001
    Not a huge surprise. The BBC talk media. Mrs May meanwhile speaks human.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JustinWolfers: If the only we had implemented Trump's immigration ban list a decade ago, we could have prevented exactly 0 acts of Islamic terror in the US
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    glw said:

    John_M said:

    Therefore, when we invoke article 50, Euratom is one of the agencies that we automagically leave. As you say, May hasn't suddenly run amok and decided that nukes are evil.

    We are going to see a whole series of eruptions of ill-informed outrage as it sinks in what leaving the EU means, aren't we?
    I wonder how many people who are outraged at the UK leaving Euratom have any idea what it does.
    Does it sex kittens?
  • Options

    Reductive pish is certainly Tessy's go-to strategy when she can't think of anything else.

    https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/825379999712735234

    Talking of pish. Is Sturgeon personally housing any refugees yet as she promised she would ?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/year-nicola-sturgeon-refugees/
    Squirrelsquirrelsquirrelsquirrelsquirrel
    So no she hasn't. Your leaderene and fraud.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Mortimer said:

    The BBC talk media. Mrs May meanwhile speaks human.

    https://twitter.com/maitlis/status/825387283570446336
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    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    SeanT said:

    viewcode said:

    So it seems that Trump's visa ban includes green cards for citizens from the "Axis of Islam". People who may have lawfully lived in the US for decades and who happened to be on holiday this week are being barred from re-entering.

    If memory serves, that happened to Charlie Chaplin. Although surprisingly I have not a lot of sympathy here. If you intend to live in a country long-term and don't take out at least dual citizenship, you do lay yourself open to this sort of thing.
    I wonder about the media hysteria over what Trump has done. Banning people from certain Muslim countries?

    Europe is hyper-ventilating, yet recall that Geert Wilders is likely to come first in the Dutch elections, and he wants to ban The Koran.

    This anti-Islamic discourse is inevitable, and will grow, and it will become mainstream, unless there is some miraculous Enlightenment within Islam itself. Trump is the future.
    Trump is the past. 1933 to be precise.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    glw said:

    John_M said:

    Therefore, when we invoke article 50, Euratom is one of the agencies that we automagically leave. As you say, May hasn't suddenly run amok and decided that nukes are evil.

    We are going to see a whole series of eruptions of ill-informed outrage as it sinks in what leaving the EU means, aren't we?
    I wonder how many people who are outraged at the UK leaving Euratom have any idea what it does.
    Less than 1 in a 1,000, and the outrage is mostly due to people not understanding why we are leaving, and assuming something else. Of course a more interesting question is why cooperation on nuclear energy matters became entangled with EU membership. It's almost as though the EU has become what we long feared it would.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091

    Mr. Jessop, mine's awful too, so I only get the Ambulans bit.

    I think Littoreus means coastal waters or shoreline ('littoral'), and Ambulans walker. Therefore coastal waters walker.

    It's the best I could do, and It'll probably send a Latin teacher into fits of rage.
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    John_M said:

    viewcode said:

    So it seems that Trump's visa ban includes green cards for citizens from the "Axis of Islam". People who may have lawfully lived in the US for decades and who happened to be on holiday this week are being barred from re-entering.

    If memory serves, that happened to Charlie Chaplin. Although surprisingly I have not a lot of sympathy here. If you intend to live in a country long-term and don't take out at least dual citizenship, you do lay yourself open to this sort of thing.
    Seriously? Having been deemed worthy of permanent residence it's outrageous to suddennly be stranded abroad because the rules have changed.

    In any case, many countries don't allow dual citizenship, e.g. Germany, India, China.
    I'm waiting for clarity as to whether this is HS enforcing the XO, or the airlines over-reacting on the precautionary principle.
    If airlines transport people who are forbidden to enter the USA, do the airlines have to return them to the country of embarkation?

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited January 2017
    @ValaAfshar: US tech companies founded by 1st/2nd generation immigrants

    Apple
    Google
    Facebook
    Amazon
    Oracle
    IBM
    Uber
    Yahoo
    EMC
    eBay
    AT&T
    Tesla
    Reddit
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Aiannucci: Question: Is Trump's Muslim ban a hate crime and, if so, shouldn't he be refused entry to U.K.? Answer: ........
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791

    Reductive pish is certainly Tessy's go-to strategy when she can't think of anything else.

    https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/825379999712735234

    Talking of pish. Is Sturgeon personally housing any refugees yet as she promised she would ?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/year-nicola-sturgeon-refugees/
    Squirrelsquirrelsquirrelsquirrelsquirrel
    That'll be a "no" then?

    And what business is it of the UK PM on US domestic immigration policy?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,620

    SeanT said:

    viewcode said:

    So it seems that Trump's visa ban includes green cards for citizens from the "Axis of Islam". People who may have lawfully lived in the US for decades and who happened to be on holiday this week are being barred from re-entering.

    If memory serves, that happened to Charlie Chaplin. Although surprisingly I have not a lot of sympathy here. If you intend to live in a country long-term and don't take out at least dual citizenship, you do lay yourself open to this sort of thing.
    I wonder about the media hysteria over what Trump has done. Banning people from certain Muslim countries?

    Europe is hyper-ventilating, yet recall that Geert Wilders is likely to come first in the Dutch elections, and he wants to ban The Koran.

    This anti-Islamic discourse is inevitable, and will grow, and it will become mainstream, unless there is some miraculous Enlightenment within Islam itself. Trump is the future.
    Trump is the past. 1933 to be precise.
    Hilariously, Trump appears to be heading for an immigration policy that mirrors that of... the Gulf states. Complete with religious litmus tests....
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,008
    Scott_P said:

    @Aiannucci: Question: Is Trump's Muslim ban a hate crime and, if so, shouldn't he be refused entry to U.K.? Answer: ........

    I wonder how a ban on immigration from those countries would go down here
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    perdix said:

    John_M said:

    viewcode said:

    So it seems that Trump's visa ban includes green cards for citizens from the "Axis of Islam". People who may have lawfully lived in the US for decades and who happened to be on holiday this week are being barred from re-entering.

    If memory serves, that happened to Charlie Chaplin. Although surprisingly I have not a lot of sympathy here. If you intend to live in a country long-term and don't take out at least dual citizenship, you do lay yourself open to this sort of thing.
    Seriously? Having been deemed worthy of permanent residence it's outrageous to suddennly be stranded abroad because the rules have changed.

    In any case, many countries don't allow dual citizenship, e.g. Germany, India, China.
    I'm waiting for clarity as to whether this is HS enforcing the XO, or the airlines over-reacting on the precautionary principle.
    If airlines transport people who are forbidden to enter the USA, do the airlines have to return them to the country of embarkation?

    I believe so. Still trying to get some clarity on the green card wossname. Conflicting reports atm.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @normwilner: Trump said he'd run America like a business. Specifically, an Alabama lunch counter in 1936.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    glw said:

    glw said:

    John_M said:

    Therefore, when we invoke article 50, Euratom is one of the agencies that we automagically leave. As you say, May hasn't suddenly run amok and decided that nukes are evil.

    We are going to see a whole series of eruptions of ill-informed outrage as it sinks in what leaving the EU means, aren't we?
    I wonder how many people who are outraged at the UK leaving Euratom have any idea what it does.
    Less than 1 in a 1,000, and the outrage is mostly due to people not understanding why we are leaving, and assuming something else. Of course a more interesting question is why cooperation on nuclear energy matters became entangled with EU membership. It's almost as though the EU has become what we long feared it would.
    It was there from the start. Euratom was created at the same time as the EEC and shared institutions from 1967 i.e. before the UK joined.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091

    glw said:

    John_M said:

    Therefore, when we invoke article 50, Euratom is one of the agencies that we automagically leave. As you say, May hasn't suddenly run amok and decided that nukes are evil.

    We are going to see a whole series of eruptions of ill-informed outrage as it sinks in what leaving the EU means, aren't we?
    I wonder how many people who are outraged at the UK leaving Euratom have any idea what it does.
    I'm not outraged, but I'm unsurprised such an issue has arisen, and think there will be many more. The divorce is going to be messy, even if it might eventually be in the best interests of both parties.

    And yes, I did know roughly what Euratom does. Then again, it's the sort of area I'm interested in.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Mr. Jessop, mine's awful too, so I only get the Ambulans bit.

    I think Littoreus means coastal waters or shoreline ('littoral'), and Ambulans walker. Therefore coastal waters walker.

    It's the best I could do, and It'll probably send a Latin teacher into fits of rage.
    Is that a littoral translation?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    perdix said:

    John_M said:

    viewcode said:

    So it seems that Trump's visa ban includes green cards for citizens from the "Axis of Islam". People who may have lawfully lived in the US for decades and who happened to be on holiday this week are being barred from re-entering.

    If memory serves, that happened to Charlie Chaplin. Although surprisingly I have not a lot of sympathy here. If you intend to live in a country long-term and don't take out at least dual citizenship, you do lay yourself open to this sort of thing.
    Seriously? Having been deemed worthy of permanent residence it's outrageous to suddennly be stranded abroad because the rules have changed.

    In any case, many countries don't allow dual citizenship, e.g. Germany, India, China.
    I'm waiting for clarity as to whether this is HS enforcing the XO, or the airlines over-reacting on the precautionary principle.
    If airlines transport people who are forbidden to enter the USA, do the airlines have to return them to the country of embarkation?
    Yes, and at the airline's expense. Applies universally, so airlines always check that travellers have appropriate visas for their destination.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791
    perdix said:

    John_M said:

    viewcode said:

    So it seems that Trump's visa ban includes green cards for citizens from the "Axis of Islam". People who may have lawfully lived in the US for decades and who happened to be on holiday this week are being barred from re-entering.

    If memory serves, that happened to Charlie Chaplin. Although surprisingly I have not a lot of sympathy here. If you intend to live in a country long-term and don't take out at least dual citizenship, you do lay yourself open to this sort of thing.
    Seriously? Having been deemed worthy of permanent residence it's outrageous to suddennly be stranded abroad because the rules have changed.

    In any case, many countries don't allow dual citizenship, e.g. Germany, India, China.
    I'm waiting for clarity as to whether this is HS enforcing the XO, or the airlines over-reacting on the precautionary principle.
    If airlines transport people who are forbidden to enter the USA, do the airlines have to return them to the country of embarkation?

    Yes. And face a substantial fine for bringing them in the first place.

    Hence the abundance of caution.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091
    Scott_P said:

    @ValaAfshar: US tech companies founded by 1st/2nd generation immigrants

    Apple
    Google
    Facebook
    Amazon
    Oracle
    IBM
    Uber
    Yahoo
    EMC
    eBay
    AT&T
    Tesla
    Reddit

    Apple is quite poignant: Steve Jobs' natural father was a Syrian Muslim.
  • Options
    daodaodaodao Posts: 821

    SeanT said:

    viewcode said:

    So it seems that Trump's visa ban includes green cards for citizens from the "Axis of Islam". People who may have lawfully lived in the US for decades and who happened to be on holiday this week are being barred from re-entering.

    If memory serves, that happened to Charlie Chaplin. Although surprisingly I have not a lot of sympathy here. If you intend to live in a country long-term and don't take out at least dual citizenship, you do lay yourself open to this sort of thing.
    I wonder about the media hysteria over what Trump has done. Banning people from certain Muslim countries?

    Europe is hyper-ventilating, yet recall that Geert Wilders is likely to come first in the Dutch elections, and he wants to ban The Koran.

    This anti-Islamic discourse is inevitable, and will grow, and it will become mainstream, unless there is some miraculous Enlightenment within Islam itself. Trump is the future.
    Trump is the past. 1933 to be precise.
    1933?! Since when is Trump an antisemite?
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    SeanT said:

    viewcode said:

    So it seems that Trump's visa ban includes green cards for citizens from the "Axis of Islam". People who may have lawfully lived in the US for decades and who happened to be on holiday this week are being barred from re-entering.

    If memory serves, that happened to Charlie Chaplin. Although surprisingly I have not a lot of sympathy here. If you intend to live in a country long-term and don't take out at least dual citizenship, you do lay yourself open to this sort of thing.
    I wonder about the media hysteria over what Trump has done. Banning people from certain Muslim countries?

    Europe is hyper-ventilating, yet recall that Geert Wilders is likely to come first in the Dutch elections, and he wants to ban The Koran.

    This anti-Islamic discourse is inevitable, and will grow, and it will become mainstream, unless there is some miraculous Enlightenment within Islam itself. Trump is the future.
    Trump is the past. 1933 to be precise.
    time will tell, not you
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091
    Essexit said:

    Mr. Jessop, mine's awful too, so I only get the Ambulans bit.

    I think Littoreus means coastal waters or shoreline ('littoral'), and Ambulans walker. Therefore coastal waters walker.

    It's the best I could do, and It'll probably send a Latin teacher into fits of rage.
    Is that a littoral translation?
    No. When i comes to Latin, I'm all at sea.
  • Options

    Scott_P said:

    @ValaAfshar: US tech companies founded by 1st/2nd generation immigrants

    Apple
    Google
    Facebook
    Amazon
    Oracle
    IBM
    Uber
    Yahoo
    EMC
    eBay
    AT&T
    Tesla
    Reddit

    Apple is quite poignant: Steve Jobs' natural father was a Syrian Muslim.
    Who he never met.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,849
    SeanT said:

    nunu said:

    SeanT said:

    I can't believe Sarah Perry's searing, bleak, heartfelt Guardian confessional of modern human suffering - Did Writing A Novel Make Me Ill? - has only received two comments in five hours. It's like people have become inured to the horror.


    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jan/28/did-writing-a-book-make-me-ill-graves-disease-sarah-perry?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    She's very pretty. Maybe you could comfort her.You could tell her you feel her pain.
    She complains about her eyes sticking out. It wasn't her eyes that I noticed.
    Proof positive that you are, literally, a dick ?
    :-)
  • Options
    The MSM need to be careful here.

    Clip of Theresa May says the 'United States is responsible for its policy on refugees, the UK is responsible for its refugees' sounded a good response. No other leader has condemned the US so far.

    The Fench and German ministers say it can only 'worry us'

    This is going to be a big story but there is no saying that the polarised views will change much
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    glw said:

    glw said:

    John_M said:

    Therefore, when we invoke article 50, Euratom is one of the agencies that we automagically leave. As you say, May hasn't suddenly run amok and decided that nukes are evil.

    We are going to see a whole series of eruptions of ill-informed outrage as it sinks in what leaving the EU means, aren't we?
    I wonder how many people who are outraged at the UK leaving Euratom have any idea what it does.
    Less than 1 in a 1,000, and the outrage is mostly due to people not understanding why we are leaving, and assuming something else. Of course a more interesting question is why cooperation on nuclear energy matters became entangled with EU membership. It's almost as though the EU has become what we long feared it would.
    No!! Never!!! Well I'll go to the foot of my stairs.
  • Options
    Lol, Tessy getting a lesson in morality from Erdogan.
    Presumably she'll get in a zinger about Turkey being responsible for Turkey's policy on refugees.

    https://twitter.com/Jack_Blanchard_/status/825388056941383680
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    daodao said:

    SeanT said:

    viewcode said:

    So it seems that Trump's visa ban includes green cards for citizens from the "Axis of Islam". People who may have lawfully lived in the US for decades and who happened to be on holiday this week are being barred from re-entering.

    If memory serves, that happened to Charlie Chaplin. Although surprisingly I have not a lot of sympathy here. If you intend to live in a country long-term and don't take out at least dual citizenship, you do lay yourself open to this sort of thing.
    I wonder about the media hysteria over what Trump has done. Banning people from certain Muslim countries?

    Europe is hyper-ventilating, yet recall that Geert Wilders is likely to come first in the Dutch elections, and he wants to ban The Koran.

    This anti-Islamic discourse is inevitable, and will grow, and it will become mainstream, unless there is some miraculous Enlightenment within Islam itself. Trump is the future.
    Trump is the past. 1933 to be precise.
    1933?! Since when is Trump an antisemite?
    http://www.waupun.k12.wi.us/Policy/other/dickhut/religions/04 Semitic Religions.html
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Ed Miliband has been very visible in the last few days. Curious.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,728

    Scott_P said:

    @ValaAfshar: US tech companies founded by 1st/2nd generation immigrants

    Apple
    Google
    Facebook
    Amazon
    Oracle
    IBM
    Uber
    Yahoo
    EMC
    eBay
    AT&T
    Tesla
    Reddit

    Apple is quite poignant: Steve Jobs' natural father was a Syrian Muslim.
    Those companies and their like would be useful in Making America Great Again.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,091

    Scott_P said:

    @ValaAfshar: US tech companies founded by 1st/2nd generation immigrants

    Apple
    Google
    Facebook
    Amazon
    Oracle
    IBM
    Uber
    Yahoo
    EMC
    eBay
    AT&T
    Tesla
    Reddit

    Apple is quite poignant: Steve Jobs' natural father was a Syrian Muslim.
    Who he never met.
    Actually, they probably did, although they didn't realise it at the time. His father worked in a cafe which Jobs used to go. (From my memory of the official biography)

    Leaving that aside it seems a slightly odd point for you to be making.
  • Options
    Faisal Islam just said amazingly, that there will be many in the UK who support the US policy
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Ed Miliband has been very visible in the last few days. Curious.

    Yeh. That thought occurred to me too. Moves afoot?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,805

    glw said:

    John_M said:

    Therefore, when we invoke article 50, Euratom is one of the agencies that we automagically leave. As you say, May hasn't suddenly run amok and decided that nukes are evil.

    We are going to see a whole series of eruptions of ill-informed outrage as it sinks in what leaving the EU means, aren't we?
    I wonder how many people who are outraged at the UK leaving Euratom have any idea what it does.
    It's an AndAnotherThing about Brexit. I've yet to hear of one incontrovertible and concrete benefit to Brexit. I'm not talking about sovereignty and taking control, which are arguable and in any case there are two sides to those coins.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,008

    Ed Miliband has been very visible in the last few days. Curious.

    Surely not???!!

    To be honest, he has.. and he seems just as bad as before
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Ed Miliband has been very visible in the last few days. Curious.

    It's the 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' gambit. Compared to Corbyn, he's Clement Attlee.

    My suggested campaign song for his return:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVzvRsl4rEM
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    glw said:

    glw said:

    John_M said:

    Therefore, when we invoke article 50, Euratom is one of the agencies that we automagically leave. As you say, May hasn't suddenly run amok and decided that nukes are evil.

    We are going to see a whole series of eruptions of ill-informed outrage as it sinks in what leaving the EU means, aren't we?
    I wonder how many people who are outraged at the UK leaving Euratom have any idea what it does.
    Less than 1 in a 1,000, and the outrage is mostly due to people not understanding why we are leaving, and assuming something else. Of course a more interesting question is why cooperation on nuclear energy matters became entangled with EU membership. It's almost as though the EU has become what we long feared it would.
    It was there from the start. Euratom was created at the same time as the EEC and shared institutions from 1967 i.e. before the UK joined.
    True, but it was originally a separate organisation with its own treaty. This is a good illustration of one of the big EU problems, that EU membership comes as a package, it's not flexible, and to solve one issue in particular (immigration control) we are having to leave the EU, single market, customs union, Euratom and much more. A bit of real flexibility and in all likelihood we would have voted to remain.
This discussion has been closed.