Another level of bureaucratic nonsense from Osborne, East Anglia doesn't even have a city that needs a mayor.
Worse chancellor since Brown, or worse than Brown depending on the subject.
What is 'bureaucratic nonsense' was the insane existing 'system' in metropolitan areas where several local authorities which essentially comprise the same city-region were bound together by fundamentally weak voluntary local partnerships rather than sensible administrative structures.
Witness the pathetic parochialism in Greater Newcastle where Gateshead continues to refuse to work with the City Council despite being just over the river, and is the same city for all intents and purposes. Salford once had a similar little brother complex with the City of Manchester when the rest of the world shrugged its shoulders.
Why London should be the only city-region to have sensible government has always been a mystery. Well done George Osborne for imposing this on the petty minds of local councillors and creating units that make sense.
I agree that an East Anglia Combined Authority is a bridge too far – these super mayors should have been limited to metros.
Many of the same people who gripe about years of neglect of the North also complain about these attempts at devolution.
Metro devolution is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition of revival outside of London.
I agree it ought to have been kept to proper metros. It could be argued, though, that county councils need more power over planning, transport, and economic development.
@Jobabob - Gateshead was happy to collaborate with Newcastle (and N & S Tyneside and Sunderland) as part of Tyne & Wear County Council, where each borough had councillors elected, and there was consensus on pan-T&W issues such as transport.
Under the current plans Gateshead & others south of the Tyne don't want to be dominated by a Newcastle based Mayor making decisions to benefit the regional capital rather than the region.
Say what you like about Prezza's plans for a regional assembly, but it would not have been the plaything of a single over-powerful politician, and, being based in Durham, would have been seen as being more balanced between the competing interests of Newcastle, Sunderland and the more rural outlying parts of the region. I was the voter who voted 'Yes' to the plan.
@Jobabob - Gateshead was happy to collaborate with Newcastle (and N & S Tyneside and Sunderland) as part of Tyne & Wear County Council, where each borough had councillors elected, and there was consensus on pan-T&W issues such as transport.
Under the current plans Gateshead & others south of the Tyne don't want to be dominated by a Newcastle based Mayor making decisions to benefit the regional capital rather than the region.
Say what you like about Prezza's plans for a regional assembly, but it would not have been the plaything of a single over-powerful politician, and, being based in Durham, would have been seen as being more balanced between the competing interests of Newcastle, Sunderland and the more rural outlying parts of the region. I was the voter who voted 'Yes' to the plan.
Gateshead IS just part of Newcastle – in any sensible set up it would be wards within it, not a separate council. The whole thing is absurd. Merge them.
Are there still about 1.5m displaced Syrians in Turkey? On top of domestic Turkish Russophobes, who might have any number of real or imagined grievances, the refugees add another level of danger.
Scotland has around twice the population of Wales, but nobody said a Scottish Parliament was too big. The only way England can have equality is to have the same deal. If we opt for further devolution beneath that, fair enough (likewise if not).
Magic how Celtic nations, as you put it, are the perfect size for devolution but England's just wrong. Yet, somehow, we have a Parliament for the whole UK.
What do PBers think of the 13 year sentence handed to the 101 year old today?
I believe the sentence is in line with guidelines, and he was over the age of majority when the crimes were committed, so his current age shouldn't excuse him jail time, even if prisons are ill equipped to deal with OAP prisoners
I think it's exceptionally harsh - the prison regime is very much more difficult for someone of his age to deal with and this aspect doesn't appear to have been fully taken into account. The truth is however, that even if his sentence had been half of that imposed, he is unlikely to ever see the light of day again, in a manner of speaking.
All things being equal, he'll serve half his sentence in jail.
That's really my point ..... in reality he probably won't.
Strikes me that he'll probably have a cost-free retirement home on a prison hospital wing.
@Jobabob - Gateshead was happy to collaborate with Newcastle (and N & S Tyneside and Sunderland) as part of Tyne & Wear County Council, where each borough had councillors elected, and there was consensus on pan-T&W issues such as transport.
Under the current plans Gateshead & others south of the Tyne don't want to be dominated by a Newcastle based Mayor making decisions to benefit the regional capital rather than the region.
Say what you like about Prezza's plans for a regional assembly, but it would not have been the plaything of a single over-powerful politician, and, being based in Durham, would have been seen as being more balanced between the competing interests of Newcastle, Sunderland and the more rural outlying parts of the region. I was the voter who voted 'Yes' to the plan.
Gateshead IS just part of Newcastle – in any sensible set up it would be wards within it, not a separate council. The whole thing is absurd. Merge them.
Quite right.
Brooklyn used to be a separate city from New York. Who, now, would advocate it setting up on its own? Hasn't lost its own identity, either.
What do PBers think of the 13 year sentence handed to the 101 year old today?
I believe the sentence is in line with guidelines, and he was over the age of majority when the crimes were committed, so his current age shouldn't excuse him jail time, even if prisons are ill equipped to deal with OAP prisoners
I think it's exceptionally harsh - the prison regime is very much more difficult for someone of his age to deal with and this aspect doesn't appear to have been fully taken into account. The truth is however, that even if his sentence had been half of that imposed, he is unlikely to ever see the light of day again, in a manner of speaking.
All things being equal, he'll serve half his sentence in jail.
That's really my point ..... in reality he probably won't.
Strikes me that he'll probably have a cost-free retirement home on a prison hospital wing.
Prison hospital wings really are shite, if you really want someone to suffer, send them to prison and in need of medical care
I see the proxy war is ongoing - no matter that the government itself uses such talk, as expected extreme partisans will deny anyone else the right to define things:
In truth these varying types of Brexit are Remainer talk. There is only one Brexit: a clean departure from the single market and customs union to untie ourselves from EU shackles and freely embrace the rest of the world…
Maybe that would be the best approach, maybe it would be the cleanest. But goddamn it irrtates when such people define an ambiguous term and deny that it is even possible to define it any other way. Not 'this is the only appropriate Brexit' or 'the only good Brexit'. No no, the only Brexit.
On topic, the whole 'devolution' agenda is a complete mess, so I hear from people involved in discussions on the subject at various levels, and it's a waste of time and effort as a result, with absurd boundaries and varies 'devolutions' meaning no one has any real idea of what it means (apparently since Osborne has left government seems less keen anyway). I guess this wave is here to stay though.
Scotland has around twice the population of Wales, but nobody said a Scottish Parliament was too big. The only way England can have equality is to have the same deal. If we opt for further devolution beneath that, fair enough (likewise if not).
Magic how Celtic nations, as you put it, are the perfect size for devolution but England's just wrong. Yet, somehow, we have a Parliament for the whole UK.
Actually he is right. The issue in going fully federal is that England is too large *relative* to its parent entity, the U.K. Any English parliament would therefore be either too powerful - delegitimising Westminster - or an expensive talking shop.
The only way to square the circle is regional devolution within England.
There seems/seemed little appetite for devolution to the regions. So let's try metros and counties.
Osborne's initiatives are a tiny step in the right direction.
"It's obvious that our distant ancestors were not as primitive as I was taught at school."
I agree. The idea that the ancient Brits were unsophisticated savages before the Romans arrived and descended into barbarism and the Dark Ages after they had left is the same sort of nonsense that is today peddled by some of our rabid supporters of the EU.
The reason there has always been a bit more ambivalence about government by the Metropolitan Counties than about Greater London is that the Metropolitan Counties are conurbations, not cities - and there is always a bit of suspicion from those boroughs which do not make up the core cities about the extent to which the core city will dominate. Greater Manchester is not a lot of suburbs around a big city in the way that Greater London is; it's a lot of medium-sized towns around a big city - most of which have seen a lot of decline over the past thirty years relative to the big city in the centre.
Oh, and the fact that however laudable the aims, all Metropolitan regions will end up as one-party states run by the Labour Party, which is hardly a mark of a functioning democracy. The battle for the leadership of Greater Manchester has already been fought and won, within the Labour Party, by Andy Burnham - those of us who aren't members of the party don't really have any input into proceedings. Maybe these elections would work better if all parties had to put forward several candidates (obviously using AV to select the overall winner).
What do PBers think of the 13 year sentence handed to the 101 year old today?
I believe the sentence is in line with guidelines, and he was over the age of majority when the crimes were committed, so his current age shouldn't excuse him jail time, even if prisons are ill equipped to deal with OAP prisoners
I think it's exceptionally harsh - the prison regime is very much more difficult for someone of his age to deal with and this aspect doesn't appear to have been fully taken into account. The truth is however, that even if his sentence had been half of that imposed, he is unlikely to ever see the light of day again, in a manner of speaking.
All things being equal, he'll serve half his sentence in jail.
That's really my point ..... in reality he probably won't.
Strikes me that he'll probably have a cost-free retirement home on a prison hospital wing.
Prison hospital wings really are shite, if you really want someone to suffer, send them to prison and in need of medical care
That may well be true. I'm afraid I struggle to find much sympathy for him.
Are there still about 1.5m displaced Syrians in Turkey? On top of domestic Turkish Russophobes, who might have any number of real or imagined grievances, the refugees add another level of danger.
I find it sad that many of the same people who talk about the pressures immigration has had on the UK seem close-minded to the pressures that a massive wave of immigration in a much shorter period has had on Turkey.
The reason there has always been a bit more ambivalence about government by the Metropolitan Counties than about Greater London is that the Metropolitan Counties are conurbations, not cities - and there is always a bit of suspicion from those boroughs which do not make up the core cities about the extent to which the core city will dominate. Greater Manchester is not a lot of suburbs around a big city in the way that Greater London is; it's a lot of medium-sized towns around a big city - most of which have seen a lot of decline over the past thirty years relative to the big city in the centre.
Oh, and the fact that however laudable the aims, all Metropolitan regions will end up as one-party states run by the Labour Party, which is hardly a mark of a functioning democracy. The battle for the leadership of Greater Manchester has already been fought and won, within the Labour Party, by Andy Burnham - those of us who aren't members of the party don't really have any input into proceedings. Maybe these elections would work better if all parties had to put forward several candidates (obviously using AV to select the overall winner).
What do PBers think of the 13 year sentence handed to the 101 year old today?
I believe the sentence is in line with guidelines, and he was over the age of majority when the crimes were committed, so his current age shouldn't excuse him jail time, even if prisons are ill equipped to deal with OAP prisoners
I think it's exceptionally harsh - the prison regime is very much more difficult for someone of his age to deal with and this aspect doesn't appear to have been fully taken into account. The truth is however, that even if his sentence had been half of that imposed, he is unlikely to ever see the light of day again, in a manner of speaking.
All things being equal, he'll serve half his sentence in jail.
That's really my point ..... in reality he probably won't.
Strikes me that he'll probably have a cost-free retirement home on a prison hospital wing.
Prison hospital wings really are shite, if you really want someone to suffer, send them to prison and in need of medical care
That may well be true. I'm afraid I struggle to find much sympathy for him.
It's the same (weak, IMO) argument that was used against PCCs. It's local democracy. So we're not used to it, we ridicule it, and we will probably ignore and abstain from it.
But local democracy it is and people should be happy to have it.
As a working class Northerner I heartily approve of these metro mayors.
Personally, I'd rather have a Yorkshire parliament with a FM accountable to MYPs but something is better than nothing.
I attended a Yorkshire First event, I'm not keen.
It did turn into a rant that I was not supporting the 20/20 cricket franchise of Leeds United
Yorks First is a stupid political party. They'd be much better as a non-partisan pressure group, particularly given that the authorities need(ed) to come up with some devolution proposal.
MD - Yorkshire gets a bum deal from Westminster and Whitehall, in no small part because it doesn't have a strong enough voice (or, perhaps more accurately, a strong voice that is effectively channeled).
Are there still about 1.5m displaced Syrians in Turkey? On top of domestic Turkish Russophobes, who might have any number of real or imagined grievances, the refugees add another level of danger.
I find it sad that many of the same people who talk about the pressures immigration has had on the UK seem close-minded to the pressures that a massive wave of immigration in a much shorter period has had on Turkey.
Gosh, I didn't realise the numbers had grown so far since I last checked.
The chances of a home-grown terrorist having carried out the attack are probably higher than it having been a Syrian (or foreign terrorist) but I wouldn't rule out any alternative.
As a working class Northerner I heartily approve of these metro mayors.
Personally, I'd rather have a Yorkshire parliament with a FM accountable to MYPs but something is better than nothing.
I attended a Yorkshire First event, I'm not keen.
It did turn into a rant that I was not supporting the 20/20 cricket franchise of Leeds United
Yorks First is a stupid political party. They'd be much better as a non-partisan pressure group, particularly given that the authorities need(ed) to come up with some devolution proposal.
MD - Yorkshire gets a bum deal from Westminster and Whitehall, in no small part because it doesn't have a strong enough voice (or, perhaps more accurately, a strong voice that is effectively channeled).
Yorkshire needs to be united instead of having been castrated into four.
Just imagine if North Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, and East Yorkshire united into one massive full on county of Yorkshire.
We wouldn't need a Metro Mayor or non job like First Minister, we'd need a Governor of Yorkshire,
Aside from a 'Red, white and blue' Brexit, what is the government doing?
The government is not doing anything because they are trying to win a 3m chase with a two-yr old filly*.
The mechanism of government is not set up to assess and develop a strategy for leaving the EU. It needs to be geared up, there need to be a sh*tload more civil servants, and the whole machinery of government needs to be turned towards the task.
As a working class Northerner I heartily approve of these metro mayors.
Personally, I'd rather have a Yorkshire parliament with a FM accountable to MYPs but something is better than nothing.
I attended a Yorkshire First event, I'm not keen.
It did turn into a rant that I was not supporting the 20/20 cricket franchise of Leeds United
Yorks First is a stupid political party. They'd be much better as a non-partisan pressure group, particularly given that the authorities need(ed) to come up with some devolution proposal.
MD - Yorkshire gets a bum deal from Westminster and Whitehall, in no small part because it doesn't have a strong enough voice (or, perhaps more accurately, a strong voice that is effectively channeled).
Yorkshire needs to be united instead of having been castrated into four.
Just imagine if North Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, and East Yorkshire united into one massive full on county of Yorkshire.
We wouldn't need a Metro Mayor or non job like First Minister, we'd need a Governor of Yorkshire,
A Governor in British tradition is appointed by the Crown. How about Consul?
As a working class Northerner I heartily approve of these metro mayors.
Personally, I'd rather have a Yorkshire parliament with a FM accountable to MYPs but something is better than nothing.
I attended a Yorkshire First event, I'm not keen.
It did turn into a rant that I was not supporting the 20/20 cricket franchise of Leeds United
Yorks First is a stupid political party. They'd be much better as a non-partisan pressure group, particularly given that the authorities need(ed) to come up with some devolution proposal.
MD - Yorkshire gets a bum deal from Westminster and Whitehall, in no small part because it doesn't have a strong enough voice (or, perhaps more accurately, a strong voice that is effectively channeled).
Yorkshire needs to be united instead of having been castrated into four.
Just imagine if North Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, and East Yorkshire united into one massive full on county of Yorkshire.
We wouldn't need a Metro Mayor or non job like First Minister, we'd need a Governor of Yorkshire,
A Governor in British tradition is appointed by the Crown. How about Consul?
I could live with that. Emperor would be fine too.
Hmm. Thin gruel that article. The government's primary agenda is Brexit now. The fact that there's a few issues at DFID and they might not get more strike legislation through house of lords hardly constitutes a need to dash for the polls.
More of a pressure is the thought that Corbyn might not make it to 2020.
Hmm. Thin gruel that article. The government's primary agenda is Brexit now. The fact that there's a few issues at DFID and they might not get more strike legislation through house of lords hardly constitutes a need to dash for the polls.
More of a pressure is the thought that Corbyn might not make it to 2020.
This is the reason why PB Brexiters don't get it when they say if only we'd stop talking about Brexit.
Mr. Herdson, establish a Yorkshire Parliament and you'll get an East Anglian one, a Cornish one, and before you know it you'll have carved England into shitty little fiefdoms.
Was Scotland split into Lowlands, Highlands and Islands, or did it get one Parliament?
I don't understand this thread . AFAIK , ( Greater ) Lincolnshire Mayoral proposal is dead in the water as is Solent . East Anglia has been emasculated into Cambs and Peterborough which as they were only included originally as Norfolk and Suffolk were thought to be too small on their own is a bit of a joke . There will be a North Tyneside mayoral election next year but this is a one council mayor not a regional one .
It's also fairly unusual (unique?) in being a hybrid suspension and cable-stayed bridge. Extra points if you know the difference betwen suspension and cable-stayed.
The reason there has always been a bit more ambivalence about government by the Metropolitan Counties than about Greater London is that the Metropolitan Counties are conurbations, not cities - and there is always a bit of suspicion from those boroughs which do not make up the core cities about the extent to which the core city will dominate. Greater Manchester is not a lot of suburbs around a big city in the way that Greater London is; it's a lot of medium-sized towns around a big city - most of which have seen a lot of decline over the past thirty years relative to the big city in the centre.
Oh, and the fact that however laudable the aims, all Metropolitan regions will end up as one-party states run by the Labour Party, which is hardly a mark of a functioning democracy. The battle for the leadership of Greater Manchester has already been fought and won, within the Labour Party, by Andy Burnham - those of us who aren't members of the party don't really have any input into proceedings. Maybe these elections would work better if all parties had to put forward several candidates (obviously using AV to select the overall winner).
Croydon, Romford and Richmond are all definable self contained towns.
The reason there has always been a bit more ambivalence about government by the Metropolitan Counties than about Greater London is that the Metropolitan Counties are conurbations, not cities - and there is always a bit of suspicion from those boroughs which do not make up the core cities about the extent to which the core city will dominate. Greater Manchester is not a lot of suburbs around a big city in the way that Greater London is; it's a lot of medium-sized towns around a big city - most of which have seen a lot of decline over the past thirty years relative to the big city in the centre.
Utter Rot. Greater London is a conurbation itself that has expanded to engulf the many surrounding towns. Greater London of course is a relatively new concept itself. Indeed it is part of the success of the Greater London model in creating a singular "London" identity that people don't even realise this anymore. While not totally there yet most of the south of the GM conurbation is continuous development. Most of the gaps are floodplain.
It has been all the councils of GM, not just the city of Manchester, that have been pushing for more autonomy ever since the metropolitan councils were abolished. None of this would be happening if it wasn't for their lobbying efforts.
Hmm. Thin gruel that article. The government's primary agenda is Brexit now. The fact that there's a few issues at DFID and they might not get more strike legislation through house of lords hardly constitutes a need to dash for the polls.
More of a pressure is the thought that Corbyn might not make it to 2020.
May is running a zombie government. Whether by circumstance (Brexit, small majority) or instinct, I do not know - but it is a do nothing government.
Why she thought it necessary to castigate her predecessors regime is not clear to me if her intention is literally to do nothing.
I don't understand this thread . AFAIK , ( Greater ) Lincolnshire Mayoral proposal is dead in the water as is Solent . East Anglia has been emasculated into Cambs and Peterborough which as they were only included originally as Norfolk and Suffolk were thought to be too small on their own is a bit of a joke . There will be a North Tyneside mayoral election next year but this is a one council mayor not a regional one .
It's a classically British bugger's muddle.
But the people who are missing out (on locally accountable politicians with actual spending clout) are all outside London, so no one really gives a flying one.
No surprise that ComRes finds that Brits are sticking with Brexit. There's been no hard evidence whatsoever since the vote to suggest they were wrong first time around.
Mr. Herdson, establish a Yorkshire Parliament and you'll get an East Anglian one, a Cornish one, and before you know it you'll have carved England into shitty little fiefdoms.
Was Scotland split into Lowlands, Highlands and Islands, or did it get one Parliament?
Mr. Herdson, establish a Yorkshire Parliament and you'll get an East Anglian one, a Cornish one, and before you know it you'll have carved England into shitty little fiefdoms.
Was Scotland split into Lowlands, Highlands and Islands, or did it get one Parliament?
A Yorkshire assembly, or as I prefer, beefed up county council, makes complete sense.
Yorkshire has been a coherent territorial entity longer than most European states, and its population is larger than many.
Why shouldn't Yorkshire have approximately the same powers as, say, Wallonia?
The reason there has always been a bit more ambivalence about government by the Metropolitan Counties than about Greater London is that the Metropolitan Counties are conurbations, not cities - and there is always a bit of suspicion from those boroughs which do not make up the core cities about the extent to which the core city will dominate. Greater Manchester is not a lot of suburbs around a big city in the way that Greater London is; it's a lot of medium-sized towns around a big city - most of which have seen a lot of decline over the past thirty years relative to the big city in the centre.
Utter Rot. Greater London is a conurbation itself that has expanded to engulf the many surrounding towns. Greater London of course is a relatively new concept itself. Indeed it is part of the success of the Greater London model in creating a singular "London" identity that people don't even realise this anymore.
I disagree. I grew up in Surbiton. I was born the year after it became part of Greater London, but the things that made us "London" were that we had red London Transport buses, not green "country" ones, the police station at the end of the road belonged to the Met, and our phone number began with "01".
And I'd go as far as say even people still in "proper" Surrey identified with London more than not (large parts of current Surrey were also served by the Met until 1999 for instance). As Sham 69 put it: "Country slang with a Bow Bells voice, / So close to the city we ain't got much choice"
No surprise that ComRes finds that Brits are sticking with Brexit. There's been no hard evidence whatsoever since the vote to suggest they were wrong first time around.
There's also no evidence they're getting behind it, and we need to see the weighting adjustments.
Hmm. Thin gruel that article. The government's primary agenda is Brexit now. The fact that there's a few issues at DFID and they might not get more strike legislation through house of lords hardly constitutes a need to dash for the polls.
More of a pressure is the thought that Corbyn might not make it to 2020.
May is running a zombie government. Whether by circumstance (Brexit, small majority) or instinct, I do not know - but it is a do nothing government.
Why she thought it necessary to castigate her predecessors regime is not clear to me if her intention is literally to do nothing.
Do nothing, achieve nothing was her successful tactic during her time in the home office so not surprising she's repeating it now. At some point though with prisons, hospitals and the rail network failing, people might get a little annoyed.
Telegraph: - Russian ambassador Karlov and gunman confirmed dead.
According to local reports, the attacker was a Turkish policemen (sp) who had been assigned to the security detail overlooking the event which Mr Karlov had been attending. Oops!
The reason there has always been a bit more ambivalence about government by the Metropolitan Counties than about Greater London is that the Metropolitan Counties are conurbations, not cities - and there is always a bit of suspicion from those boroughs which do not make up the core cities about the extent to which the core city will dominate. Greater Manchester is not a lot of suburbs around a big city in the way that Greater London is; it's a lot of medium-sized towns around a big city - most of which have seen a lot of decline over the past thirty years relative to the big city in the centre.
Utter Rot. Greater London is a conurbation itself that has expanded to engulf the many surrounding towns. Greater London of course is a relatively new concept itself. Indeed it is part of the success of the Greater London model in creating a singular "London" identity that people don't even realise this anymore.
I disagree. I grew up in Surbiton. I was born the year after it became part of Greater London, but the things that made us "London" were that we had red London Transport buses, not green "country" ones, the police station at the end of the road belonged to the Met, and our phone number began with "01".
And I'd go as far as say even people still in "proper" Surrey identified with London more than not (large parts of current Surrey were also served by the Met until 1999 for instance). As Sham 69 put it: "Country slang with a Bow Bells voice, / So close to the city we ain't got much choice"
Great song. Nice to see it referenced in a PB thread.
There are potential issues with these mayors and assemblies.
As an example, Transport for London is getting increasing power over services that are not in London. This is not necessarily a good for those outside London.
Steve Garner. It is 47-45% is it not with 8% undecided?. How on earth is that sticking by the decision. The 8% could split any way you want.You could also argue that the Remain vote excluding undecided is 3% down and the Leave 5%!!!!!. That fits in with some folk I know who voted Leave but are not at all certain now. In any case what does Leave mean if we are going to stay in the Customs Union (vix Liam Fox). That is what the EU is basically about so what is the point of trying to Leave? The whole business simply bemuses me.
@Jobabob - Gateshead was happy to collaborate with Newcastle (and N & S Tyneside and Sunderland) as part of Tyne & Wear County Council, where each borough had councillors elected, and there was consensus on pan-T&W issues such as transport.
Under the current plans Gateshead & others south of the Tyne don't want to be dominated by a Newcastle based Mayor making decisions to benefit the regional capital rather than the region.
Say what you like about Prezza's plans for a regional assembly, but it would not have been the plaything of a single over-powerful politician, and, being based in Durham, would have been seen as being more balanced between the competing interests of Newcastle, Sunderland and the more rural outlying parts of the region. I was the voter who voted 'Yes' to the plan.
Gateshead IS just part of Newcastle – in any sensible set up it would be wards within it, not a separate council. The whole thing is absurd. Merge them.
Quite right.
Brooklyn used to be a separate city from New York. Who, now, would advocate it setting up on its own? Hasn't lost its own identity, either.
OTOH Staten Island came close to seceding from NYC in the 90s. Actually, quite possibly it did, but the rest of us haven't noticed yet.
Theakes, how on earth is it not sticking by the decision? By my calculation 47-45 is still a majority of those expressing a preference, a bit like the referendum itself.
How nice it would be just to sweep away the whole mess of District Councils, County Councils, devolved assemblies, and now these combined authorities and replace them with sensible-sized unitaries.
The reason there has always been a bit more ambivalence about government by the Metropolitan Counties than about Greater London is that the Metropolitan Counties are conurbations, not cities - and there is always a bit of suspicion from those boroughs which do not make up the core cities about the extent to which the core city will dominate. Greater Manchester is not a lot of suburbs around a big city in the way that Greater London is; it's a lot of medium-sized towns around a big city - most of which have seen a lot of decline over the past thirty years relative to the big city in the centre.
Utter rot. Greater London is a conurbation itself that has expanded to engulf the many surrounding towns. Greater London of course is a relatively new concept itself. Indeed it is part of the success of the Greater London model in creating a singular "London" identity that people don't even realise this anymore.
I disagree. I grew up in Surbiton. I was born the year after it became part of Greater London, but the things that made us "London" were that we had red London Transport buses, not green "country" ones, the police station at the end of the road belonged to the Met, and our phone number began with "01".
And I'd go as far as say even people still in "proper" Surrey identified with London more than not (large parts of current Surrey were also served by the Met until 1999 for instance). As Sham 69 put it: "Country slang with a Bow Bells voice, / So close to the city we ain't got much choice"
Yes, but that is different to the metropolitan counties (except the metropolitan bus companies were abolished with deregulation).
No surprise that ComRes finds that Brits are sticking with Brexit. There's been no hard evidence whatsoever since the vote to suggest they were wrong first time around.
Yes.
I wonder how many Remainers would be fooled again. It's also very clear that their resistance to democracy is dimly viewed even among their number.
No surprise that ComRes finds that Brits are sticking with Brexit. There's been no hard evidence whatsoever since the vote to suggest they were wrong first time around.
There's also no evidence they're getting behind it, and we need to see the weighting adjustments.
So far no real reason for Bregret, because apart from devaluation there has so far been no change. How people feel in a years time will be more telling, but even then too soon for serious buyers remorse.
@Jobabob - Gateshead was happy to collaborate with Newcastle (and N & S Tyneside and Sunderland) as part of Tyne & Wear County Council, where each borough had councillors elected, and there was consensus on pan-T&W issues such as transport.
Under the current plans Gateshead & others south of the Tyne don't want to be dominated by a Newcastle based Mayor making decisions to benefit the regional capital rather than the region.
Say what you like about Prezza's plans for a regional assembly, but it would not have been the plaything of a single over-powerful politician, and, being based in Durham, would have been seen as being more balanced between the competing interests of Newcastle, Sunderland and the more rural outlying parts of the region. I was the voter who voted 'Yes' to the plan.
Like it or not, Newcastle does dominate the NE. Gateshead and South Tyneside are shooting themselves in the foot by dragging their feet. They are bringing the whole of Tyneside down with them.
How nice it would be just to sweep away the whole mess of District Councils, County Councils, devolved assemblies, and now these combined authorities and replace them with sensible-sized unitaries.
The reason there has always been a bit more ambivalence about government by the Metropolitan Counties than about Greater London is that the Metropolitan Counties are conurbations, not cities - and there is always a bit of suspicion from those boroughs which do not make up the core cities about the extent to which the core city will dominate. Greater Manchester is not a lot of suburbs around a big city in the way that Greater London is; it's a lot of medium-sized towns around a big city - most of which have seen a lot of decline over the past thirty years relative to the big city in the centre.
Utter rot. Greater London is a conurbation itself that has expanded to engulf the many surrounding towns. Greater London of course is a relatively new concept itself. Indeed it is part of the success of the Greater London model in creating a singular "London" identity that people don't even realise this anymore.
I disagree. I grew up in Surbiton. I was born the year after it became part of Greater London, but the things that made us "London" were that we had red London Transport buses, not green "country" ones, the police station at the end of the road belonged to the Met, and our phone number began with "01".
And I'd go as far as say even people still in "proper" Surrey identified with London more than not (large parts of current Surrey were also served by the Met until 1999 for instance). As Sham 69 put it: "Country slang with a Bow Bells voice, / So close to the city we ain't got much choice"
Yes, but that is different to the metropolitan counties (except the metropolitan bus companies were abolished with deregulation).
Maybe, and I do have a college friend from Atherton in Greater Manchester who used to say folk there looked upon people from Leigh as "foreigners" and that Bolton was the big city as far as they were concerned.
Comments
Metro devolution is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition of revival outside of London.
I agree it ought to have been kept to proper metros. It could be argued, though, that county councils need more power over planning, transport, and economic development.
Under the current plans Gateshead & others south of the Tyne don't want to be dominated by a Newcastle based Mayor making decisions to benefit the regional capital rather than the region.
Say what you like about Prezza's plans for a regional assembly, but it would not have been the plaything of a single over-powerful politician, and, being based in Durham, would have been seen as being more balanced between the competing interests of Newcastle, Sunderland and the more rural outlying parts of the region. I was the voter who voted 'Yes' to the plan.
We already have devolved govt in London, so why not in Mcr, Liverpool, Brum etc?
Patronising people worked tremendously well during the referendum campaign. It's a little early to resume.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-banks-idUKKBN14813C
Scotland has around twice the population of Wales, but nobody said a Scottish Parliament was too big. The only way England can have equality is to have the same deal. If we opt for further devolution beneath that, fair enough (likewise if not).
Magic how Celtic nations, as you put it, are the perfect size for devolution but England's just wrong. Yet, somehow, we have a Parliament for the whole UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38371269
Brooklyn used to be a separate city from New York. Who, now, would advocate it setting up on its own? Hasn't lost its own identity, either.
https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/810889139784732672
These nutters need to be told to stand for UKIP.
http://order-order.com/2016/12/19/parliament-releases-official-brexit-dictionary/
In truth these varying types of Brexit are Remainer talk. There is only one Brexit: a clean departure from the single market and customs union to untie ourselves from EU shackles and freely embrace the rest of the world…
Maybe that would be the best approach, maybe it would be the cleanest. But goddamn it irrtates when such people define an ambiguous term and deny that it is even possible to define it any other way. Not 'this is the only appropriate Brexit' or 'the only good Brexit'. No no, the only Brexit.
On topic, the whole 'devolution' agenda is a complete mess, so I hear from people involved in discussions on the subject at various levels, and it's a waste of time and effort as a result, with absurd boundaries and varies 'devolutions' meaning no one has any real idea of what it means (apparently since Osborne has left government seems less keen anyway). I guess this wave is here to stay though.
It did turn into a rant that I was not supporting the 20/20 cricket franchise of Leeds United
The only way to square the circle is regional devolution within England.
There seems/seemed little appetite for devolution to the regions. So let's try metros and counties.
Osborne's initiatives are a tiny step in the right direction.
"It's obvious that our distant ancestors were not as primitive as I was taught at school."
I agree. The idea that the ancient Brits were unsophisticated savages before the Romans arrived and descended into barbarism and the Dark Ages after they had left is the same sort of nonsense that is today peddled by some of our rabid supporters of the EU.
@maxseddon: Turkish media now reporting that both the Russian ambassador and the man who shot him have died.
Oh, and the fact that however laudable the aims, all Metropolitan regions will end up as one-party states run by the Labour Party, which is hardly a mark of a functioning democracy. The battle for the leadership of Greater Manchester has already been fought and won, within the Labour Party, by Andy Burnham - those of us who aren't members of the party don't really have any input into proceedings. Maybe these elections would work better if all parties had to put forward several candidates (obviously using AV to select the overall winner).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War
I find it sad that many of the same people who talk about the pressures immigration has had on the UK seem close-minded to the pressures that a massive wave of immigration in a much shorter period has had on Turkey.
The Prime Minister's agenda is under threat from all sides.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2016/12/theresa-may-running-out-reasons-not-call-early-election
Aside from a 'Red, white and blue' Brexit, what is the government doing?
https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/810892960938213376
But local democracy it is and people should be happy to have it.
MD - Yorkshire gets a bum deal from Westminster and Whitehall, in no small part because it doesn't have a strong enough voice (or, perhaps more accurately, a strong voice that is effectively channeled).
The chances of a home-grown terrorist having carried out the attack are probably higher than it having been a Syrian (or foreign terrorist) but I wouldn't rule out any alternative.
Just imagine if North Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, and East Yorkshire united into one massive full on county of Yorkshire.
We wouldn't need a Metro Mayor or non job like First Minister, we'd need a Governor of Yorkshire,
The mechanism of government is not set up to assess and develop a strategy for leaving the EU. It needs to be geared up, there need to be a sh*tload more civil servants, and the whole machinery of government needs to be turned towards the task.
This has not yet happened.
*@kle4 pls advise.
Walthamstow (Essex)
Harlesden (Middlesex)
Wimbledon (Surrey)
Yet only the certifiable would suggest their being removed from London.
More of a pressure is the thought that Corbyn might not make it to 2020.
It's the only political game in town.
Was Scotland split into Lowlands, Highlands and Islands, or did it get one Parliament?
The new bridge over the Bosporus is beautiful:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=429&GalleryID=2759
It's also fairly unusual (unique?) in being a hybrid suspension and cable-stayed bridge. Extra points if you know the difference betwen suspension and cable-stayed.
https://www.facebook.com/ABC15/videos/vb.18356341358/10154320591241359/?type=3&theater
And rightly part of Greater London.
It has been all the councils of GM, not just the city of Manchester, that have been pushing for more autonomy ever since the metropolitan councils were abolished. None of this would be happening if it wasn't for their lobbying efforts.
Andrey Karlov was shot nine times by the gunman, who then allegedly yelled "Allahu Akbar," and "Aleppo, revenge.""
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/19/russias-ambassador-turkey-shot-assassination-attempt1/
Whether by circumstance (Brexit, small majority) or instinct, I do not know - but it is a do nothing government.
Why she thought it necessary to castigate her predecessors regime is not clear to me if her intention is literally to do nothing.
But the people who are missing out (on locally accountable politicians with actual spending clout) are all outside London, so no one really gives a flying one.
Yorkshire has been a coherent territorial entity longer than most European states, and its population is larger than many.
Why shouldn't Yorkshire have approximately the same powers as, say, Wallonia?
And I'd go as far as say even people still in "proper" Surrey identified with London more than not (large parts of current Surrey were also served by the Met until 1999 for instance). As Sham 69 put it: "Country slang with a Bow Bells voice, / So close to the city we ain't got much choice"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38369962
Russian ambassador to Turkey shot dead
In an art gallery, too.
Political murder is going up market.
Ambassador shot in the back 5 times
Sky news
According to local reports, the attacker was a Turkish policemen (sp) who had been assigned to the security detail overlooking the event which Mr Karlov had been attending. Oops!
As an example, Transport for London is getting increasing power over services that are not in London. This is not necessarily a good for those outside London.
In any case what does Leave mean if we are going to stay in the Customs Union (vix Liam Fox). That is what the EU is basically about so what is the point of trying to Leave?
The whole business simply bemuses me.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/19/russias-ambassador-turkey-shot-assassination-attempt1/
I see trouble ahead.
https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/810900126029877248
I wonder how many Remainers would be fooled again. It's also very clear that their resistance to democracy is dimly viewed even among their number.
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/810905921857712128
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_People's_Liberation_Party/Front