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  • This fact from the Guardian stunned me.

    "business flying at Heathrow has fallen by 23% since 2000 – and not because of capacity or the recession. "
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/interactive/2013/dec/16/uk-runways-business-flights-interactive

    But as a taxpayer I find this Telegraph article worrying.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/24/heathrow-runway-will-create-16bn-burden-for-transport-for-london/
    Even "The Airports Commission estimated that the cost of Heathrow expansion to TfL would be £5.7bn"
  • Barnesian said:

    Will Lib Dems parachute Vince Cable in as their candidate?

    No. They have a prospective candidate in Sarah Olney, and Vince wants to get his old seat back.
    Sarah Olney was selected as Lib Dem candiadte in the event of a snap general election.

    She was not selected as a high profile by-election candidate.

    Vince Cable would be a better candidate and is an elderly white male, so has a better chance. :)
    I wouldn't campaign for Vince. I'd sit it out.
    Why? Not attracted to pale, male and very stale?
  • MaxPB said:

    You're right. Instead, let's put the airport in the middle of 'somewhere' by demolishing Central London. If we get the position right we wont have to bother about the cost of renovating the Houses of Parliament either. ;)

    If we were picking a new ideal site then somewhere around Watford is the ideal spot. Loads of transport links, fast links to Euston, the Met line is a lot faster than the Piccadilly line and the flight path could be directed over empty land. Between the A41 and M25 is what I remember researching at one time.
    But you would have to have 1 million flights a year over houses. Whereas a Boris island could have very few over house - just some domestic flights.
  • May's decision in Richmond suggests to me she is still more worried about having sufficient HoC votes for Brexit with her small majority than anything else.

    I take this to mean she is still not planning to hold an early GE. But DYOR.

    She came to a deal with Goldsmith, obviously. Politics as usual, so dull.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited October 2016
    MaxPB said:

    AndyJS said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    Why would it have mattered which side it was on as long as you have a fast rail link to central London? Also it would have meant that you could have all the latest facilities instead of adding them on to antiquated buildings and infrastructure at Heathrow.
    Because a lot of people drive.
    In 10+ years they can be driven (driverless) to the nearest links to fast connections to Boris Island.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,927
    edited October 2016
    FPT:
    chestnut said:

    MaxPB said:

    Carney says MPC will take Sterling depreciation into account at next meeting. Chances of a further interest rate cut are pretty close to nil in that case. Also rules out negative rates, saying there is something "unnatural" about them. Very sensible.

    Reuters were reporting a couple of interesting side effects today of sterling's moves.

    Tata are believed to be turning an operating profit of £10m pcm at Port Talbot now, while the British Steel pension deficit of £700m has nearly been wiped out, standing at just £50m now.

    A reduction of over 90% since March.
    I'm afraid the depreciation of Sterling has not been the major factor, more the fact that Hot Rolled Coil has increased from $376/tonne at the start of the year to $546/tonne now.

    Sterling depreciation can only have a modest effect because 75% of Port Talbot's operating expenses are Iron Ore and Coal, both of which are imported and are priced in US Dollars.

    Cheaper Sterling affects only the labour element of costs. (If I remember correctly, Port Talbot's debt is US Dollar denominated, so it's gotten larger even as the plant has become more profitable,)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334

    MaxPB said:

    You're right. Instead, let's put the airport in the middle of 'somewhere' by demolishing Central London. If we get the position right we wont have to bother about the cost of renovating the Houses of Parliament either. ;)

    If we were picking a new ideal site then somewhere around Watford is the ideal spot. Loads of transport links, fast links to Euston, the Met line is a lot faster than the Piccadilly line and the flight path could be directed over empty land. Between the A41 and M25 is what I remember researching at one time.
    But you would have to have 1 million flights a year over houses. Whereas a Boris island could have very few over house - just some domestic flights.
    No, the take off direction could be over the countryside where there are few to no residents. That's why a similar site has previously been considered.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    just flatten Slough and build a brand new airport from scratch.

    it will be cheaper.
    Much of the cost of a new airport could be defrayed by selling Heathrow as prime building land - brilliant communications with the rest of London, power, water etc etc. Plus the locals would have no problem with noisy construction.... How much would Heathrow be worth in that form - 30 billion? More?
    absolutely.

    build a new airport from scratch and estate agents will have a field day in redeveloping west London

    it's not as if there's anything much worth preserving in the capital :-)
    It's just I never understood this idea that if you moved the airport from Heathrow, the results would be a howling wasteland at Heathrow. The land is too valuable.....
    The idea of Boris island was the point when I started taking Boris seriously as a Leader. He has a sense of real vision and insight into tackling major issues.
    By sticking an airport in the middle of nowhere?
    As recommended by the government in 1973 when they selected Maplin Sands.
  • IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    just flatten Slough and build a brand new airport from scratch.

    it will be cheaper.
    Much of the cost of a new airport could be defrayed by selling Heathrow as prime building land - brilliant communications with the rest of London, power, water etc etc. Plus the locals would have no problem with noisy construction.... How much would Heathrow be worth in that form - 30 billion? More?
    absolutely.

    build a new airport from scratch and estate agents will have a field day in redeveloping west London

    it's not as if there's anything much worth preserving in the capital :-)
    It's just I never understood this idea that if you moved the airport from Heathrow, the results would be a howling wasteland at Heathrow. The land is too valuable.....
    The idea of Boris island was the point when I started taking Boris seriously as a Leader. He has a sense of real vision and insight into tackling major issues.
    You have got to be joking. It was only a political stunt.
    .....and the alternative for 50+ years, from 2026 is?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    AndyJS said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    Why would it have mattered which side it was on as long as you have a fast rail link to central London? Also it would have meant that you could have all the latest facilities instead of adding them on to antiquated buildings and infrastructure at Heathrow.
    Because the thousands of people who work supporting an airport don't live in central London. Because an island in the middle of nowhere has no infrastructure, no transport links, no supporting industry/hotels etc., no passengers nearby, no nothing. Except loads of birds which is a serious problem for any type of aircraft.

    It mystifies me why otherwise sensible people take Boris's proposal at face value. It was naked politics, pure and simple.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334

    MaxPB said:

    AndyJS said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    Why would it have mattered which side it was on as long as you have a fast rail link to central London? Also it would have meant that you could have all the latest facilities instead of adding them on to antiquated buildings and infrastructure at Heathrow.
    Because a lot of people drive.
    In 10+ years they can be driven (driverless) to the nearest links to fast connections to Boris Island.
    How very utopian. They'll all be electric as well, I hope.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,927

    Will Lib Dems parachute Vince Cable in as their candidate?

    Only if they want to lose the seat.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    GIN1138 said:

    dr_spyn said:
    That's a poor decision given Zack is standing as an Indy.

    Got to say, if I lived in Richmond I'd be voting Lib-Dem (even though I voted LEAVE, support Heathrow and T May)

    Posh Boy Zack should be thrown out of public life and the Tories need to bloody nose for not fielding their own candidate.
    Presumably since the local association is refusing to put up a candidate against Zac then Central Office doesn't have many choices. It can suspend the local party but that would just be pouring salt on a wound, and then having forced a candidate that the local party refused to support, they would get hammered by Zac anyway.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403
    edited October 2016
    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    Why would it have mattered which side it was on as long as you have a fast rail link to central London? Also it would have meant that you could have all the latest facilities instead of adding them on to antiquated buildings and infrastructure at Heathrow.
    Because there's thousands of businesses on the M4 and M3 corridors that are deliberately located close to the airport. A significant number of people leaving LHR travel west, rather than east into London.
    According to the latest Baker Atlas, there is a "proposed" rail link from LHR to the GWR main line somewhere near Slough.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403
    edited October 2016
    How about an airport built on Richmond Park?

    :naughty:
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited October 2016
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    You're right. Instead, let's put the airport in the middle of 'somewhere' by demolishing Central London. If we get the position right we wont have to bother about the cost of renovating the Houses of Parliament either. ;)

    If we were picking a new ideal site then somewhere around Watford is the ideal spot. Loads of transport links, fast links to Euston, the Met line is a lot faster than the Piccadilly line and the flight path could be directed over empty land. Between the A41 and M25 is what I remember researching at one time.
    But you would have to have 1 million flights a year over houses. Whereas a Boris island could have very few over house - just some domestic flights.
    No, the take off direction could be over the countryside where there are few to no residents. That's why a similar site has previously been considered.
    Interested as to how you have four separate in and out flight paths which start getting noisy 10+ kms away from the airport? I have lived in Richmond, Chiswick and Acton etc so am well aware of the noise etc.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    AndyJS said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    Why would it have mattered which side it was on as long as you have a fast rail link to central London? Also it would have meant that you could have all the latest facilities instead of adding them on to antiquated buildings and infrastructure at Heathrow.
    Because a lot of people drive.
    In 10+ years they can be driven (driverless) to the nearest links to fast connections to Boris Island.
    How very utopian. They'll all be electric as well, I hope.
    Probably.
  • How about an airport built on Richmond Park?

    :naughty:

    Too small.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,781

    Barnesian said:

    Will Lib Dems parachute Vince Cable in as their candidate?

    No. They have a prospective candidate in Sarah Olney, and Vince wants to get his old seat back.
    Sarah Olney was selected as Lib Dem candiadte in the event of a snap general election.

    She was not selected as a high profile by-election candidate.

    Vince Cable would be a better candidate and is an elderly white male, so has a better chance. :)
    I wouldn't campaign for Vince. I'd sit it out.
    Why? Not attracted to pale, male and very stale?
    Very stale and too much baggage. Not motivational for the activists. Not good for a Labour squeeze. Yesterday's man. And not even local.

    This needs a new fresh credible younger person with no baggage, plenty of energy and enthusiasm, very fast learner, good speaker who is at least as personally appealing as Zac. They have that in Sarah Olney whose day job is an accountant with the National Physical Laboratory but you'd never guess that. I'm with Her.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591

    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    Why would it have mattered which side it was on as long as you have a fast rail link to central London? Also it would have meant that you could have all the latest facilities instead of adding them on to antiquated buildings and infrastructure at Heathrow.
    Because there's thousands of businesses on the M4 and M3 corridors that are deliberately located close to the airport. A significant number of people leaving LHR travel west, rather than east into London.
    According to the latest Baker Atlas, there is a "proposed" rail link from LHR to the GWR main line somewhere near Slough.
    Isn't that the Crossrail line to Maidenhead?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2016
    In 2015 the Tories recorded their 9th highest number of votes in Richmond Park — 34,404. Now they aren't even contesting it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    just flatten Slough and build a brand new airport from scratch.

    it will be cheaper.
    LOL.

    On that topic, a radio advert heard in Dubai today. "Invest in premium London property in Staines-upon-Thames, with prices starting from only £340,000 with rental returns averaging 4.5%, call Knight Frank today"

    Some charlatan is selling off-plan studio apartments in Staines to international investors at trumped-up prices on the back of the Sterling devaluation.

    I can't work out if the foreign investment is a good thing, or if there will be an almighty backlash from the buyers when they realise what and where they've bought.
    I don't remember Staines as being premium London...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    South Dakota - Mason Dixon - Sample 400 - 18-20 Oct

    Clinton 37 .. Trump 44

    http://www.keloland.com/news/politics/campaign/keloland-campaign-2016-poll/
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,781
    edited October 2016
    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems in the by election. That's quick off the mark!
  • dyingswandyingswan Posts: 189
    The Liberals are right back in their old comfort zone enthusing about by-elections. As David Steel once said " Return to your constituencies and prepare for-utterly pointless expensive by-elections that achieve absolutely nothing!"
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,148
    edited October 2016
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    just flatten Slough and build a brand new airport from scratch.

    it will be cheaper.
    Much of the cost of a new airport could be defrayed by selling Heathrow as prime building land - brilliant communications with the rest of London, power, water etc etc. Plus the locals would have no problem with noisy construction.... How much would Heathrow be worth in that form - 30 billion? More?
    absolutely. build a new airport from scratch and estate agents will have a field day in redeveloping west London
    it's not as if there's anything much worth preserving in the capital :-)
    One plane crash on the way down to Heathrow would be cataclysmic. How do they get by elf and safety?
    They came a lot closer than most people realise, a few years ago.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38
    Many years ago, one plane crashed just after take-off - IIRC it fell out of the sky above Slough and just happened to fall into waste ground.

    (edited to add: good evening, everyone)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,571
    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985
    MaxPB said:

    You're right. Instead, let's put the airport in the middle of 'somewhere' by demolishing Central London. If we get the position right we wont have to bother about the cost of renovating the Houses of Parliament either. ;)

    If we were picking a new ideal site then somewhere around Watford is the ideal spot. Loads of transport links, fast links to Euston, the Met line is a lot faster than the Piccadilly line and the flight path could be directed over empty land. Between the A41 and M25 is what I remember researching at one time.
    But that's an argument for doing nothing, as there's no chance of getting a new 4-runway airport (and that's the minimum needed) anywhere in the Home Counties; yet alone with the required transport links and other infrastructure.

    And I LOL at the idea that the noise footprint for an airport in that area being over 'empty' land.
  • AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    just flatten Slough and build a brand new airport from scratch.

    it will be cheaper.
    Much of the cost of a new airport could be defrayed by selling Heathrow as prime building land - brilliant communications with the rest of London, power, water etc etc. Plus the locals would have no problem with noisy construction.... How much would Heathrow be worth in that form - 30 billion? More?
    absolutely. build a new airport from scratch and estate agents will have a field day in redeveloping west London
    it's not as if there's anything much worth preserving in the capital :-)
    One plane crash on the way down to Heathrow would be cataclysmic. How do they get by elf and safety?
    They came a lot closer than most people realise, a few years ago.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38
    Many years ago, one plane crashed just after take-off - IIRC it fell out of the sky above Slough and just happened to fall into waste ground.

    (edited to add: good evening, everyone)
    Two examples. Next time could be far far worse. Why fly over a heavily populated area? Hong Kong moved their airport away from its skyscrapers etc.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    just flatten Slough and build a brand new airport from scratch.

    it will be cheaper.
    LOL.

    On that topic, a radio advert heard in Dubai today. "Invest in premium London property in Staines-upon-Thames, with prices starting from only £340,000 with rental returns averaging 4.5%, call Knight Frank today"

    Some charlatan is selling off-plan studio apartments in Staines to international investors at trumped-up prices on the back of the Sterling devaluation.

    I can't work out if the foreign investment is a good thing, or if there will be an almighty backlash from the buyers when they realise what and where they've bought.
    I don't remember Staines as being premium London...
    Me neither, that's what made me laugh out loud at the ad. No doubt a few rich Arabs and Indians here will be parted from their cash though.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985
    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    just flatten Slough and build a brand new airport from scratch.

    it will be cheaper.
    Much of the cost of a new airport could be defrayed by selling Heathrow as prime building land - brilliant communications with the rest of London, power, water etc etc. Plus the locals would have no problem with noisy construction.... How much would Heathrow be worth in that form - 30 billion? More?
    absolutely. build a new airport from scratch and estate agents will have a field day in redeveloping west London
    it's not as if there's anything much worth preserving in the capital :-)
    One plane crash on the way down to Heathrow would be cataclysmic. How do they get by elf and safety?
    They came a lot closer than most people realise, a few years ago.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38
    Many years ago, one plane crashed just after take-off - IIRC it fell out of the sky above Slough and just happened to fall into waste ground.

    (edited to add: good evening, everyone)
    This one?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_European_Airways_Flight_548
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    Why would it have mattered which side it was on as long as you have a fast rail link to central London? Also it would have meant that you could have all the latest facilities instead of adding them on to antiquated buildings and infrastructure at Heathrow.
    Because there's thousands of businesses on the M4 and M3 corridors that are deliberately located close to the airport. A significant number of people leaving LHR travel west, rather than east into London.
    According to the latest Baker Atlas, there is a "proposed" rail link from LHR to the GWR main line somewhere near Slough.
    Isn't that the Crossrail line to Maidenhead?
    No, or at least I think not. It's the Heathrow west link:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26064200
    http://www.networkrail.co.uk/westernraillinktoheathrow/
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    Resigning and standing immediately is a daft gimmick IMO. Meanwhile, the taxpayer picks up the tab.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591
    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    just flatten Slough and build a brand new airport from scratch.

    it will be cheaper.
    Much of the cost of a new airport could be defrayed by selling Heathrow as prime building land - brilliant communications with the rest of London, power, water etc etc. Plus the locals would have no problem with noisy construction.... How much would Heathrow be worth in that form - 30 billion? More?
    absolutely. build a new airport from scratch and estate agents will have a field day in redeveloping west London
    it's not as if there's anything much worth preserving in the capital :-)
    One plane crash on the way down to Heathrow would be cataclysmic. How do they get by elf and safety?
    They came a lot closer than most people realise, a few years ago.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38
    Many years ago, one plane crashed just after take-off - IIRC it fell out of the sky above Slough and just happened to fall into waste ground.

    (edited to add: good evening, everyone)
    BE548, in 1972. 118 fatalities, still the worst British non-terrorist plane crash.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_European_Airways_Flight_548
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2016

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    just flatten Slough and build a brand new airport from scratch.

    it will be cheaper.
    Much of the cost of a new airport could be defrayed by selling Heathrow as prime building land - brilliant communications with the rest of London, power, water etc etc. Plus the locals would have no problem with noisy construction.... How much would Heathrow be worth in that form - 30 billion? More?
    absolutely. build a new airport from scratch and estate agents will have a field day in redeveloping west London
    it's not as if there's anything much worth preserving in the capital :-)
    One plane crash on the way down to Heathrow would be cataclysmic. How do they get by elf and safety?
    They came a lot closer than most people realise, a few years ago.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38
    Many years ago, one plane crashed just after take-off - IIRC it fell out of the sky above Slough and just happened to fall into waste ground.

    (edited to add: good evening, everyone)
    This one?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_European_Airways_Flight_548
    That was the last fatal plane crash to involve a large British airliner.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,807

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    just flatten Slough and build a brand new airport from scratch.

    it will be cheaper.
    Much of the cost of a new airport could be defrayed by selling Heathrow as prime building land - brilliant communications with the rest of London, power, water etc etc. Plus the locals would have no problem with noisy construction.... How much would Heathrow be worth in that form - 30 billion? More?
    absolutely. build a new airport from scratch and estate agents will have a field day in redeveloping west London
    it's not as if there's anything much worth preserving in the capital :-)
    One plane crash on the way down to Heathrow would be cataclysmic. How do they get by elf and safety?
    They came a lot closer than most people realise, a few years ago.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38
    Many years ago, one plane crashed just after take-off - IIRC it fell out of the sky above Slough and just happened to fall into waste ground.

    (edited to add: good evening, everyone)
    This one?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_European_Airways_Flight_548
    Gosh BEA - takes you back a few years. Mind you I was always impressed by the BOAC offices in Victoria.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Jonathan said:

    Resigning and standing immediately is a daft gimmick IMO. Meanwhile, the taxpayer picks up the tab.

    "The average cost of Westminster by-elections since 2010 has been £239,529, writes Anthony Reuben."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-29540785
  • PMSL

    Lib Dem Press Office ✔ @LibDemPress
    .@TimFarron: Victory for Lib Dems in #RichmondPark would put huge pressure on Theresa May to abandon plans for a disastrous hard Brexit
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,807

    PMSL

    Lib Dem Press Office ✔ @LibDemPress
    .@TimFarron: Victory for Lib Dems in #RichmondPark would put huge pressure on Theresa May to abandon plans for a disastrous hard Brexit

    Right on Kew cue.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,781

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,713

    PMSL

    Lib Dem Press Office ✔ @LibDemPress
    .@TimFarron: Victory for Lib Dems in #RichmondPark would put huge pressure on Theresa May to abandon plans for a disastrous hard Brexit

    LOL

    a loss for the LibDems would say STFU on Brexit
  • Echoes OGH

    Coffee House The LibDems will make the Richmond Park by-election into a referendum on Brexit James Forsyth
    "So more is at stake for the Lib Dems than the Tories – if they can’t win their old seat back in these circumstances, it is hard to see how they will ever be a significant force in UK politics again."
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/10/zac-goldsmith-stand-independent-tories-wont-contest/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,157
    AndyJS said:

    Jonathan said:

    Resigning and standing immediately is a daft gimmick IMO. Meanwhile, the taxpayer picks up the tab.

    "The average cost of Westminster by-elections since 2010 has been £239,529, writes Anthony Reuben."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-29540785
    Mere pocket change to Goldsmith!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,148
    edited October 2016
    Probably: Staines, then, not Slough - my bad.

    edited to sort out blockquotes (hopefully)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Jonathan said:

    Resigning and standing immediately is a daft gimmick IMO. Meanwhile, the taxpayer picks up the tab.

    "The average cost of Westminster by-elections since 2010 has been £239,529, writes Anthony Reuben."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-29540785
    Mere pocket change to Goldsmith!
    We should send him the bill!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
  • Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I have little doubt that this has been agreed at the top of the party and that the local party machine will get behind Zac, though maybe not officially
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,807
    Zac Goldsmith is a natural for Richmond.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Echoes OGH

    Coffee House The LibDems will make the Richmond Park by-election into a referendum on Brexit James Forsyth
    "So more is at stake for the Lib Dems than the Tories – if they can’t win their old seat back in these circumstances, it is hard to see how they will ever be a significant force in UK politics again."
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/10/zac-goldsmith-stand-independent-tories-wont-contest/

    The above is a bit trite from Forsyth.
  • PMSL

    Lib Dem Press Office ✔ @LibDemPress
    .@TimFarron: Victory for Lib Dems in #RichmondPark would put huge pressure on Theresa May to abandon plans for a disastrous hard Brexit


    They are very sad if they think a victory in a strong remain area will lead to Theresa May compromising on her task to restore sovereignty to this Country. Also I thought Zac had a large local following and the conservatives in the area are unlikely to swop Zac for one of Farron's foot soldiers
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2016
    PP have Zac @ 2.38 (11/8)

    Those odds are flat out wrong, IMO.

    @ 1/2 Zac would probably still be value if the cons are definitely not standing.

    Am I missing something here?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    PMSL

    Lib Dem Press Office ✔ @LibDemPress
    .@TimFarron: Victory for Lib Dems in #RichmondPark would put huge pressure on Theresa May to abandon plans for a disastrous hard Brexit

    Lib Dems need to be looking at 70% to match the remain vote in that neck of the woods, don't they?

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    edited October 2016
    Pong said:

    PP have Zac @ 2.38 (11/8)

    Those odds are flat out wrong, IMO.

    @ 1/2 Zac would probably still be value if the cons are definitely not standing.

    1.62 on Betfair.

    "Conservative" at 49-1 would appear to be throwing your money away? A shame the lay price is out at 1000.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    It would be most unusual, but I guess in principle the party can agree to give its information to whoever they want. They have quite a few procedural issues to deal with, it seems to me.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,963
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    MaxPB said:

    MikeK said:

    What an appalling, atrocious, and cowardly decision by Mrs May. She's yellow, sack up woman and defend your Heathrow decision. You wouldn't see Mrs Thatcher doing this with the wets.

    Will we see Boris Johnson campaigning against his own government's policy in a by election?
    Boris' Estury plan for a new airport was the most sensible from a growth and expansion point of view.
    Truly, it wasn't.
    Oh it was. But the British have lost the will to decide something important for it's future for decades now.
    No, it was on the wrong side of London and regardless of the £40-50bn needed to build it (needing about £2bn per year in returns to be viable, Heathrow makes ~£600m) there were too many technical issues. A new airport would have to be south of St Albans but North of London to be viable in cost and location terms. Anything which isn't accessible by car is a non-starter.
    just flatten Slough and build a brand new airport from scratch.

    it will be cheaper.
    LOL.

    On that topic, a radio advert heard in Dubai today. "Invest in premium London property in Staines-upon-Thames, with prices starting from only £340,000 with rental returns averaging 4.5%, call Knight Frank today"

    Some charlatan is selling off-plan studio apartments in Staines to international investors at trumped-up prices on the back of the Sterling devaluation.

    I can't work out if the foreign investment is a good thing, or if there will be an almighty backlash from the buyers when they realise what and where they've bought.
    I'd pay £340,000 to live near Thorpe Park.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    chestnut said:

    PMSL

    Lib Dem Press Office ✔ @LibDemPress
    .@TimFarron: Victory for Lib Dems in #RichmondPark would put huge pressure on Theresa May to abandon plans for a disastrous hard Brexit

    Lib Dems need to be looking at 70% to match the remain vote in that neck of the woods, don't they?

    50.1% will do nicely, as Sunil will tell you.

    The fly in the ointment is Goldsmith's so-called principled stand, and whether residents feel moved to back him because of his effective opposition to LHR3 or, alternatively, decide that he's a useless posh boy who failed to stop the runway and is only resigning because if he didn't he would be toast in 2020 (or sooner). Right now I have nothing on which to judge, apart from hearing a few random calls to LBC.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited October 2016
    If May were a competent leader, she would hold a vote in the full cabinet and if she won it, tell the minority to lump it or leave. If she lost it, then she herself would either lump it or leave. Instead we're going to have months of the media presenting as the "opposition" something that's occurring within Tory ranks. First it was the "wets", then the "bastards", and now it's the runway opponents. In between, it was the Blairites versus the Brownites, whatever on earth that may have denoted, during a decade of having the same two men as PM and chancellor. Sure, the airport contract is big money, but how important is it compared to major issues in the country? The Tory party is so pathetic that it can't run a candidate against some silly boy who's resigned his seat to stick two fingers up at the government? Hasn't anyone in it got the courage of their convictions? Maybe just hand the government over to Zac Goldsmith?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,355
    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    It would be most unusual, but I guess in principle the party can agree to give its information to whoever they want. They have quite a few procedural issues to deal with, it seems to me.
    Under the Data Protection Act, personal data may only be used for the purpose for which it was collected.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    It would be most unusual, but I guess in principle the party can agree to give its information to whoever they want. They have quite a few procedural issues to deal with, it seems to me.
    Can it give your personal voting information to third parties?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    How much personal money is he allowed to throw at it?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,781
    Pong said:

    PP have Zac @ 2.38 (11/8)

    Those odds are flat out wrong, IMO.

    @ 1/2 Zac would probably still be value if the cons are definitely not standing.

    Am I missing something here?

    Maximum I could get on Zac on PP at 11/8 was £80. Good value I think.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,148
    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    It would be most unusual, but I guess in principle the party can agree to give its information to whoever they want. They have quite a few procedural issues to deal with, it seems to me.
    Do they need to give the data to any third party? Couldn't they just decide to use the data themselves to campaign for him without involving him?

    (I have no idea how election rules would apply.)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591
    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    Most definitely not. Data Protection Act is quite clear on this. He needs to recruit activists with good memory of the last election.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    Dromedary said:

    If May were a competent leader, she would hold a vote in the full cabinet and if she won it, tell the minority to lump it or leave. If she lost it, then she herself would either lump it or leave. Instead we're going to have months of the media presenting as the "opposition" something that's occurring within Tory ranks. First it was the "wets", then the "bastards", and now it's the runway opponents. In between, it was the Blairites versus the Brownites, whatever on earth that may have denoted, during a decade of having the same two men as PM and chancellor. Sure, the airport contract is big money, but how important is it compared to major issues in the country? The Tory party is so pathetic that it can't run a candidate against some silly boy who's resigned his seat to stick two fingers up at the government? Hasn't anyone in it got the courage of their convictions? Maybe just hand the government over to Zac Goldsmith?

    Well put.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Dromedary said:

    If May were a competent leader, she would hold a vote in the full cabinet and if she won it, tell the minority to lump it or leave. If she lost it, then she herself would either lump it or leave. Instead we're going to have months of the media presenting as the "opposition" something that's occurring within Tory ranks. First it was the "wets", then the "bastards", and now it's the runway opponents. In between, it was the Blairites versus the Brownites, whatever on earth that may have denoted, during a decade of having the same two men as PM and chancellor. Sure, the airport contract is big money, but how important is it compared to major issues in the country? The Tory party is so pathetic that it can't run a candidate against some silly boy who's resigned his seat to stick two fingers up at the government? Hasn't anyone in it got the courage of their convictions? Maybe just hand the government over to Zac Goldsmith?

    You may well be right - but does anyone (voters, not business) outside of West London/SW London actually care about Heathrow?

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    chestnut said:

    Dromedary said:

    If May were a competent leader, she would hold a vote in the full cabinet and if she won it, tell the minority to lump it or leave. If she lost it, then she herself would either lump it or leave. Instead we're going to have months of the media presenting as the "opposition" something that's occurring within Tory ranks. First it was the "wets", then the "bastards", and now it's the runway opponents. In between, it was the Blairites versus the Brownites, whatever on earth that may have denoted, during a decade of having the same two men as PM and chancellor. Sure, the airport contract is big money, but how important is it compared to major issues in the country? The Tory party is so pathetic that it can't run a candidate against some silly boy who's resigned his seat to stick two fingers up at the government? Hasn't anyone in it got the courage of their convictions? Maybe just hand the government over to Zac Goldsmith?

    You may well be right - but does anyone (voters, not business) outside of West London/SW London actually care about Heathrow?

    Would Boris care if he was the MP for Mid Sussex?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,781
    AnneJGP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    It would be most unusual, but I guess in principle the party can agree to give its information to whoever they want. They have quite a few procedural issues to deal with, it seems to me.
    Do they need to give the data to any third party? Couldn't they just decide to use the data themselves to campaign for him without involving him?

    (I have no idea how election rules would apply.)
    A Zac SuperPac.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,894
    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    Most definitely not. Data Protection Act is quite clear on this. He needs to recruit activists with good memory of the last election.
    To whom does the data , and indeed Association funds, belong? RP etc Association or the Conservative Central HQ.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,913
    chestnut said:

    Dromedary said:

    If May were a competent leader, she would hold a vote in the full cabinet and if she won it, tell the minority to lump it or leave. If she lost it, then she herself would either lump it or leave. Instead we're going to have months of the media presenting as the "opposition" something that's occurring within Tory ranks. First it was the "wets", then the "bastards", and now it's the runway opponents. In between, it was the Blairites versus the Brownites, whatever on earth that may have denoted, during a decade of having the same two men as PM and chancellor. Sure, the airport contract is big money, but how important is it compared to major issues in the country? The Tory party is so pathetic that it can't run a candidate against some silly boy who's resigned his seat to stick two fingers up at the government? Hasn't anyone in it got the courage of their convictions? Maybe just hand the government over to Zac Goldsmith?

    You may well be right - but does anyone (voters, not business) outside of West London/SW London actually care about Heathrow?

    Everyone ultimately cares about competent economic and infrastructure policies, whether they're aware of individual decisions or not.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2016
    Barnesian said:

    Pong said:

    PP have Zac @ 2.38 (11/8)

    Those odds are flat out wrong, IMO.

    @ 1/2 Zac would probably still be value if the cons are definitely not standing.

    Am I missing something here?

    Maximum I could get on Zac on PP at 11/8 was £80. Good value I think.
    You're a fair bit more likely to win £110 than to lose your £80.

    Definitely value.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,963
    Whether Zac ends up standing as a Conservative or not, who's going to come and campaign for him? The Lib Dems will bus people in from all corners like they did for Witney and win this.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    edited October 2016
    If the Tories stand against him, the LibDems might win. Otherwise he'll walk it. Voters like "plucky rebels" and they like incumbents.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Barnesian said:

    Pong said:

    PP have Zac @ 2.38 (11/8)

    Those odds are flat out wrong, IMO.

    @ 1/2 Zac would probably still be value if the cons are definitely not standing.

    Am I missing something here?

    Maximum I could get on Zac on PP at 11/8 was £80. Good value I think.
    £16.46 here,

    Well I'm winning whatever (realistically) happens now, which is nice.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591

    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    Most definitely not. Data Protection Act is quite clear on this. He needs to recruit activists with good memory of the last election.
    To whom does the data , and indeed Association funds, belong? RP etc Association or the Conservative Central HQ.
    If the data is in RPCA systems, then it belongs to them. If it's in CCHQ systems then it belongs to the Centre. Expect an LD complaint to the Electoral Commission and Data Protection Commissioner on the first day of the campaign, if they think an independent candidate's team are using voter data from the Conservative Party.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,913
    Trump Force One touching down in Florida.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSGtLW_F1LQ
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112

    If the Tories stand against him, the LibDems might win. Otherwise he'll walk it. Voters like "plucky rebels" and they like incumbents.

    "plucky rebels"? Millionaire OEs are now considered plucky rebels? Do you see The Donald as the stick-it-to-the-man candidate also?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    TOPPING said:

    Dromedary said:

    If May were a competent leader, she would hold a vote in the full cabinet and if she won it, tell the minority to lump it or leave. If she lost it, then she herself would either lump it or leave. Instead we're going to have months of the media presenting as the "opposition" something that's occurring within Tory ranks. First it was the "wets", then the "bastards", and now it's the runway opponents. In between, it was the Blairites versus the Brownites, whatever on earth that may have denoted, during a decade of having the same two men as PM and chancellor. Sure, the airport contract is big money, but how important is it compared to major issues in the country? The Tory party is so pathetic that it can't run a candidate against some silly boy who's resigned his seat to stick two fingers up at the government? Hasn't anyone in it got the courage of their convictions? Maybe just hand the government over to Zac Goldsmith?

    Well put.
    We keep hearing this sh!t of 'courage of their convictions' sometimes people with courage of their convictions are dangerous people with views that no one can change,better to have a listening PM.

    On the tories not running against Zac,well done Theresa,this will turn into a remain/leave fight - especially from the lib dems and the tories need all the leave MP's they can get.

    Let the courage of his convictions candidate sort this mess out with a little help from the high command.
  • Whatever else this election ends up about (Brexit, Zac's dog whistle campaign, a verdict on the Lib Dems) I don't see how it's about LHR as it will be fought by two candidates both opposed

    So exactly what is the point of calling the by-election? Surely if Zac really cared about blocking the airport he would not stand again - then it becomes Lib Dem anti LHR vs official Tory candidate.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    It would be most unusual, but I guess in principle the party can agree to give its information to whoever they want. They have quite a few procedural issues to deal with, it seems to me.
    Under the Data Protection Act, personal data may only be used for the purpose for which it was collected.
    OK, I see the point, you are right that there is a potential challenge here. Even if, ironically, the data was collected originally for the purpose of electing a certain Mr Z Goldsmith.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,894
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    Most definitely not. Data Protection Act is quite clear on this. He needs to recruit activists with good memory of the last election.
    To whom does the data , and indeed Association funds, belong? RP etc Association or the Conservative Central HQ.
    If the data is in RPCA systems, then it belongs to them. If it's in CCHQ systems then it belongs to the Centre. Expect an LD complaint to the Electoral Commission and Data Protection Commissioner on the first day of the campaign, if they think an independent candidate's team are using voter data from the Conservative Party.
    I realise Zac has enough and to spare to finance his own campaign, but what about the use of Tory premises, clubs etc as local offices?
    And, I wonder how united RP Torres are at having to fight a by-election. And how many are THAT opposed to the third runway?
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,963

    If the Tories stand against him, the LibDems might win. Otherwise he'll walk it. Voters like "plucky rebels" and they like incumbents.

    He's a Leaver in an uber-Remain constituency who ran a terrible mayoral campaign, and the Lib Dems will have a vastly better ground game - and they can bring out the bar charts this time!

    The LDs have a mountain to climb but they may well do it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    arirang said:

    Whatever else this election ends up about (Brexit, Zac's dog whistle campaign, a verdict on the Lib Dems) I don't see how it's about LHR as it will be fought by two candidates both opposed

    So exactly what is the point of calling the by-election? Surely if Zac really cared about blocking the airport he would not stand again - then it becomes Lib Dem anti LHR vs official Tory candidate.

    Plus, if you are a Cons MP you are or should be a supporter of the broad policy range. Not just be a single issue campaigner on your own solipsistic hobby horse.

    Welcome.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Essexit said:

    Whether Zac ends up standing as a Conservative or not, who's going to come and campaign for him? The Lib Dems will bus people in from all corners like they did for Witney and win this.

    Win might be a tall order, but certainly an effort will be made. It is all part of Farrons plan to get members involved, so they stay involved for less high profile elections such as next years councils.

    Play every game to win, and even if unsuccessful initially, victories will come with time.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    Zac favourite on Betfair:

    Zac 1.7/1.9
    LDs 2.08/2.16
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Evenin' all

    As some have intimated, the LHR3 discussion is boring - was always going to be Heathrow. Thanks to Cameron (and Boris) we've merely succeeded in wasting five years in flip flopping on a decision that Gordo rightly made in 2009.

    Re: betting on the by-election - the Liberals look too short to bet on, given we don't yet know the candidate (I assume?). Zac looks value. But last time I took the value on Zac he lost, very, very badly.

    Hmm.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    Dadge said:

    dr_spyn said:
    So why doesn't he just resign the whip? What is the point of the by-election? #bonkers
    Zac promised a by-election if Heathrow chosen for third runway.
    But what is the point? The man is an idiot. He'll be up against the Lib Dems who don't want a third runway either, so whether he wins or loses won't prove anything. And if he does lose it'll be more because of Brexit, which the Lib Dems will make the by-election into a second referendum on.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    edited October 2016
    The bookies seem to have woken up (Hills at 5-6 the pair), bit sad I don't live near a Paddy shop right now though.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Jobabob said:

    Evenin' all

    As some have intimated, the LHR3 discussion is boring - was always going to be Heathrow. Thanks to Cameron (and Boris) we've merely succeeded in wasting five years in flip flopping on a decision that Gordo rightly made in 2009.

    Re: betting on the by-election - the Liberals look too short to bet on, given we don't yet know the candidate (I assume?). Zac looks value. But last time I took the value on Zac he lost, very, very badly.

    Hmm.

    I see from a quick google the Libs do have a candidate - Sarah Olney. Never heard of her. They seem too short to me, FWIW
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    Most definitely not. Data Protection Act is quite clear on this. He needs to recruit activists with good memory of the last election.
    To whom does the data , and indeed Association funds, belong? RP etc Association or the Conservative Central HQ.
    If the data is in RPCA systems, then it belongs to them. If it's in CCHQ systems then it belongs to the Centre. Expect an LD complaint to the Electoral Commission and Data Protection Commissioner on the first day of the campaign, if they think an independent candidate's team are using voter data from the Conservative Party.
    I realise Zac has enough and to spare to finance his own campaign, but what about the use of Tory premises, clubs etc as local offices?
    And, I wonder how united RP Torres are at having to fight a by-election. And how many are THAT opposed to the third runway?
    As I have said a number of times, the new runway north of the existing two will led to fewer planes overflying Richmond - the locals there should be happy about it!

    Zac's expenses will be very carefully watched. Any offices, staff etc will have to be rented by his campaign, or a gift declared as expenses in kind. Electoral law is very clear on these sorts of things, and there are spending limits designed to ensure that every candidate has a fair chance. Zac can't throw millions of his own money at his campaign, even if he wanted to.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2016
    It will be interesting to see whether the free movement of Romanians is more important than flight paths to Richmond's remainers.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site with the inside scoop.

    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expensef he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    Most definitely not. Data Protection Act is quite clear on this. He needs to recruit activists with good memory of the last election.
    To whom does the data , and indeed Association funds, belong? RP etc Association or the Conservative Central HQ.
    If the data is in RPCA systems, then it belongs to them. If it's in CCHQ systems then it belongs to the Centre. Expect an LD complaint to the Electoral Commission and Data Protection Commissioner on the first day of the campaign, if they think an independent candidate's team are using voter data from the Conservative Party.
    I realise Zac has enough and to spare to finance his own campaign, but what about the use of Tory premises, clubs etc as local offices?
    And, I wonder how united RP Torres are at having to fight a by-election. And how many are THAT opposed to the third runway?
    As I have said a number of times, the new runway north of the existing two will led to fewer planes overflying Richmond - the locals there should be happy about it!

    Zac's expenses will be very carefully watched. Any offices, staff etc will have to be rented by his campaign, or a gift declared as expenses in kind. Electoral law is very clear on these sorts of things, and there are spending limits designed to ensure that every candidate has a fair chance. Zac can't throw millions of his own money at his campaign, even if he wanted to.
    I recall that Zac sailed close to the wind with his expenses in 2010. Didn't Crick investigate?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    arirang said:

    Whatever else this election ends up about (Brexit, Zac's dog whistle campaign, a verdict on the Lib Dems) I don't see how it's about LHR as it will be fought by two candidates both opposed

    So exactly what is the point of calling the by-election? Surely if Zac really cared about blocking the airport he would not stand again - then it becomes Lib Dem anti LHR vs official Tory candidate.

    I presume the reason for calling the by-election is because he made such a big thing of saying he would. That's about it. Maybe on some level he also thinks that it would give him the right to rebel against 3 line whips on the issue without disciplinary action (not sure they would anyway be imposed - the party hierarchy are surely aware of the local sensitivities on the issue).

    But other than that it is pointless. There is a strange delusion going about at the moment that individual by-elections can serve as a "proxy" for the wider electorate. We saw it with the suggestion that Witney could send a statement about brexit and we are seeing it again here (whether the issue is Brexit or Heathrow). A constituency elects an MP to cast a single vote in the House of Commons. No more, no less. There are better ways to oppose Heathrow expansion. After all, we are today in pretty much exactly the same position as we were several years ago when, lest we forget, the Labour government made exactly the same decision. And it was defeated then in the courts and, ultimately, at the ballot box.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,781
    Pulpstar said:

    The bookies seem to have woken up (Hills at 5-6 the pair), bit sad I don't live near a Paddy shop right now though.

    Yes. PP still at 11/8 for Zac. I'm now allowed 34 pence on him.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Zac's Muslim-bashing, Hindu gold-hoarding racist campaign will drag itself out of the fetid swamp to which it was cast and sink its rotting gums into his squidgy backside over the next few days, as sure as rotten eggs are rotten eggs.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited October 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    The bookies seem to have woken up (Hills at 5-6 the pair), bit sad I don't live near a Paddy shop right now though.

    I just came on to say how annoyed I was having got 100 @ 2.1 on the LD PP would only let me have 49.40 @ 2.37 on Zac!

    May have to lay off at my leisure.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,894
    edited October 2016
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just had a telephone call from a LibDem activist based in Manchester with a script with all the right questions about LHR and Brexit and asking me whether I would consider voting for the LibDems. That's quick off the mark!

    Great to have you on the site
    I agree with your estimate of odds on the previous thread. But, do you think Zac will struggle with his ground game? He won't have access to the Tory machine and foot soldiers (or will he?).
    I'm sure he will. He has an enthusiastic following and they will respect the fact that he honoured his promise to trigger a by election (even though he now regrets having made it). I think he will have full access to the Tory machine. They will want him to win. He is a Tory after all, but temporarily under a different brand name.
    He will need to be very careful with his expenses declaration if he anticipates getting help from Tory HQ on the quiet.
    Can he use Tory election data?
    Most definitely not. Data Protection Act is quite clear on this. He needs to recruit activists with good memory of the last election.
    To whom does the data , and indeed Association funds, belong? RP etc Association or the Conservative Central HQ.
    If the data is in RPCA systems, then it belongs to them. If it's in CCHQ systems then it belongs to the Centre. Expect an LD complaint to the Electoral Commission and Data Protection Commissioner on the first day of the campaign, if they think an independent candidate's team are using voter data from the Conservative Party.
    I realise Zac has enough and to spare to finance his own campaign, but what about the use of Tory premises, clubs etc as local offices?
    And, I wonder how united RP Torres are at having to fight a by-election. And how many are THAT opposed to the third runway?
    As I have said a number of times, the new runway north of the existing two will led to fewer planes overflying Richmond - the locals there should be happy about it!

    Zac's expenses will be very carefully watched. Any offices, staff etc will have to be rented by his campaign, or a gift declared as expenses in kind. Electoral law is very clear on these sorts of things, and there are spending limits designed to ensure that every candidate has a fair chance. Zac can't throw millions of his own money at his campaign, even if he wanted to.
    IIRC Zac pushed the expenses boundaries hard in his campaign against Susan Kramer in 2010.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited October 2016
    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The bookies seem to have woken up (Hills at 5-6 the pair), bit sad I don't live near a Paddy shop right now though.

    Yes. PP still at 11/8 for Zac. I'm now allowed 34 pence on him.
    ... and they've gone to 5/6
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Evenin' all

    As some have intimated, the LHR3 discussion is boring - was always going to be Heathrow. Thanks to Cameron (and Boris) we've merely succeeded in wasting five years in flip flopping on a decision that Gordo rightly made in 2009.

    Re: betting on the by-election - the Liberals look too short to bet on, given we don't yet know the candidate (I assume?). Zac looks value. But last time I took the value on Zac he lost, very, very badly.

    Hmm.

    I see from a quick google the Libs do have a candidate - Sarah Olney. Never heard of her. They seem too short to me, FWIW
    Seems she's only been a member for a year or so. Just opened her Twitter page and thought Halloween had come early.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654

    Pulpstar said:

    The bookies seem to have woken up (Hills at 5-6 the pair), bit sad I don't live near a Paddy shop right now though.

    I just came on to say how annoyed I was having got 100 @ 2.1 on the LD PP would only let me have 49.40 @ 2.37 on Zac!

    May have to lay off at my leisure.
    :D You have £32.32 on the yellow peril at 2.87
This discussion has been closed.