Denis Skinner @BolsoverBeast Unsupported, uncoordinated and nearly crashing down. Ed Balls is doing for dancing what the Tories have done to the UK economy.
Don't write Trump off yet. Yet he's appalling. Yes he couldn't have screwed the last month up any harder. Yes the polls.
And yet Clinton. Ms Continuity Hi America You're Screwed.
On paper she wins big. But the main thing we've all realised in recent years is that paper elections often fail to deliver real results. How many Americans wouldn't dare say publically they'd vote for Him but really can't vote for her and more of the same. Shy voters are still voters.
Anywhere else, against any other candidate, and Trump should be done. But Clinton. But America...
I think Trump has done enough to lose. He's turned the election into a referendum on him, rather than a referendum on Clinton. But, it's not a done deal.
Sums up my feeling. Less than 10% chance of Trump victory, but not zero.
Trump's strategy of trying to win via the mid-West, is sound. It's his character flaws that have undermined his chances.
He had it in the bag on the eve of the first debate. If he had only pivoted to Presidential rather than juvenile egotistical spoilt brat, who would be winning by a mile.
Don't write Trump off yet. Yet he's appalling. Yes he couldn't have screwed the last month up any harder. Yes the polls.
And yet Clinton. Ms Continuity Hi America You're Screwed.
On paper she wins big. But the main thing we've all realised in recent years is that paper elections often fail to deliver real results. How many Americans wouldn't dare say publically they'd vote for Him but really can't vote for her and more of the same. Shy voters are still voters.
Anywhere else, against any other candidate, and Trump should be done. But Clinton. But America...
I think Trump has done enough to lose. He's turned the election into a referendum on him, rather than a referendum on Clinton. But, it's not a done deal.
Sums up my feeling. Less than 10% chance of Trump victory, but not zero.
Trump's strategy of trying to win via the mid-West, is sound. It's his character flaws that have undermined his chances.
He had it in the bag on the eve of the first debate. If he had only pivoted to Presidential rather than juvenile egotistical spoilt brat, who would be winning by a mile.
There is the whole molesting women thing as well. Hard to look Presidential with that in the background
Denis Skinner @BolsoverBeast Unsupported, uncoordinated and nearly crashing down. Ed Balls is doing for dancing what the Tories have done to the UK economy.
Dennis Skinner watches Strictly!
Dennis Skinner uses Twitter??!!??
Politics is all kinds of wrong these days. The Beast of Bossa Nova.
The chances of forming a new Anti-Brexit Party seem pretty low to me but The Libdems could add the new identity to theirs. Ballot papers could read A Smith -Liberal Democrat(Anti-Brexit). It seems to me that could work & transform British politics.
Don't write Trump off yet. Yet he's appalling. Yes he couldn't have screwed the last month up any harder. Yes the polls.
And yet Clinton. Ms Continuity Hi America You're Screwed.
On paper she wins big. But the main thing we've all realised in recent years is that paper elections often fail to deliver real results. How many Americans wouldn't dare say publically they'd vote for Him but really can't vote for her and more of the same. Shy voters are still voters.
Anywhere else, against any other candidate, and Trump should be done. But Clinton. But America...
I think Trump has done enough to lose. He's turned the election into a referendum on him, rather than a referendum on Clinton. But, it's not a done deal.
Sums up my feeling. Less than 10% chance of Trump victory, but not zero.
That would make Clinton a buy at 1.11. But more than £400K is trying to lay her at Betfair at 1.18-1.2. Trump has held his position in both the betting market and the polls for the past 10 days. Since the conventions, the pattern in the RCP poll average has been two fast Trump falls followed by slower rises. The guy is no idiot and the NRA is spending a lot of money, while his own TV advertising is focusing on Clinton's supposed physical weakness. He could win this yet. It could stop being a referendum on him.
Don't write Trump off yet. Yet he's appalling. Yes he couldn't have screwed the last month up any harder. Yes the polls.
And yet Clinton. Ms Continuity Hi America You're Screwed.
On paper she wins big. But the main thing we've all realised in recent years is that paper elections often fail to deliver real results. How many Americans wouldn't dare say publically they'd vote for Him but really can't vote for her and more of the same. Shy voters are still voters.
Anywhere else, against any other candidate, and Trump should be done. But Clinton. But America...
I think Trump has done enough to lose. He's turned the election into a referendum on him, rather than a referendum on Clinton. But, it's not a done deal.
Sums up my feeling. Less than 10% chance of Trump victory, but not zero.
That would make Clinton a buy at 1.11. But more than £400K is trying to lay her at Betfair at 1.18-1.2. Trump has held his position in both the betting market and the polls for the past 10 days. Since the conventions, the pattern in the RCP poll average has been two fast Trump falls followed by slower rises. The guy is no idiot and the NRA is spending a lot of money, while his own TV advertising is focusing on Clinton's supposed physical weakness. He could win this yet. It could stop being a referendum on him.
its 18 days to election. He lost all 3 debates. Too late to turn it round like that!
The rest of the world ignoring us? Not very likely. A brief perusal of similar size nations says we could reasonably expect constructive and improved arrangements with many that matter.
Could you be more specific? Name a similar sized nation outside the EU with better international relationships than we enjoy today.
Thailand? No other country is within 10 million outside the EU
"The former Labour Cabinet minister Ed Balls kept wicket for the parliamentary team at Lord's in 2011, although his performance did not excite the watching Alec Stewart, whose verdict was "More of a shopkeeper than a wicketkeeper."
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
You haven't read the article that you've linked to.
Trump himself has never filed for bankruptcy. Four of his corporations have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
As a clue for you, because you don't appear to be the brightest paranja on the hatstand:
By filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the corporation is allowed to continue running while restructuring and reducing its debt. By allowing the business to continue, employees still have their jobs and the business is still making money. Corporate debts still need to be repaid but they may be reduced. The corporation must develop a repayment plan and corporate budget. Both must be approved by the creditors and by the bankruptcy court.
A corporation is a separate legal entity from its shareholders, other owners, board of directors, and CEO. Since it is a separate entity, the corporation files bankruptcy under its own name. In Chapter 11 bankruptcies, the owners’ personal assets are not at risk. The owners’ credit history remains intact.
In more normal circumstances Trump would be dead and buried but you do have to worry for the US post the race with Clinton in the White House and an unforgiving Trump stirring trouble ad infinitum
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think your intial summary correct, but nonetheless it needs to be done. Britain is drunk on Brexit moonshine and needs to hit rockbottom before sobering up enough to realise that a positive and constructive relationship with our neighbours would be a good thing.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one of the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
Don't write Trump off yet. Yet he's appalling. Yes he couldn't have screwed the last month up any harder. Yes the polls.
And yet Clinton. Ms Continuity Hi America You're Screwed.
On paper she wins big. But the main thing we've all realised in recent years is that paper elections often fail to deliver real results. How many Americans wouldn't dare say publically they'd vote for Him but really can't vote for her and more of the same. Shy voters are still voters.
Anywhere else, against any other candidate, and Trump should be done. But Clinton. But America...
I think Trump has done enough to lose. He's turned the election into a referendum on him, rather than a referendum on Clinton. But, it's not a done deal.
Sums up my feeling. Less than 10% chance of Trump victory, but not zero.
That would make Clinton a buy at 1.11. But more than £400K is trying to lay her at Betfair at 1.18-1.2. Trump has held his position in both the betting market and the polls for the past 10 days. Since the conventions, the pattern in the RCP poll average has been two fast Trump falls followed by slower rises. The guy is no idiot and the NRA is spending a lot of money, while his own TV advertising is focusing on Clinton's supposed physical weakness. He could win this yet. It could stop being a referendum on him.
its 18 days to election. He lost all 3 debates. Too late to turn it round like that!
There's almost as much time between the third debate and the election as the debate period itself ran for. The third debate has had little effect on how he's been doing in either the voting intention polls or the betting market. The two big knocks he's had were the first debate and then a combined one from the second debate and his abuse of women. His big rise came with Clinton's near-collapse on 11 September. He hasn't been going downwards for 10 days now, which in a sense is quite an achievement. Clinton is vulnerable and I suspect Trump's price will be higher than it is now at some point before the election.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think your intial summary correct, but nonetheless it needs to be done. Britain is drunk on Brexit moonshine and needs to hit rockbottom before sobering up enough to realise that a positive and constructive relationship with our neighbours would be a good thing.
People said the same things about the Labour Party and a positive and constructive relationship with the electorate, and yet it continues to find new rock bottoms to drop from.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
Quite likely. The EU certainly, and people like me who are seen as defeatist possibly, will be blamed for the consequences of our Brexit decision. That's human nature.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
I suspect that you are very likely to be proven right on the first point and will probably be vindicated on the second. The third is too pessimistic. The UK is not a superpower but nor is at as inconsequential as you seem to imply.
But after that: name the decent sized country which a strong commitment to free trade?
If you want to get into free trade with the US or with China, you have to accept (and Australia, Japan and South Korea did with TPP, or Switzerland did with its China deal) incredibly lopsided agreements. So, you might have to accept US ISDS tribunals meeting in secret, or you might have a treaty requirement to keep intellectual property law in lockstep with the US, or you might be obliged to open up your financial services industry to Chinese owned firms, while still being locked out of the Chinese market.
The more I look in to this, the more I agree with this analysis: the type of deals that may be on offer from the US and China are wholly counter to the forces that drove the Brexit vote: the idea of reclaiming our sovereignty, the ability to make our own laws and control our own borders. Even the provisions in the EU/ Canada deal that are the cause of the current controversies raise fundamental questions, how is having corporations sue governments in international courts and rule on areas of public policy any different to the current position whereby decisions can be challenged in the ECJ etc etc
I am far from an expert on this, but it seems that a lot of people on here live in a complete fantasy world about free trade. Liam Fox and David Davis seem to epitomise British naivety on the subject. It can only really be attributed to the fact that we haven't any real understanding of how trade works as it has all been dealt with at an EU level for the last 4 decades.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one of the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
Not just that but given the petulance of the EU Leaders anyone who thinks the government isn't going to brush off any problems about leaving the EU into the laps of Juncker et al, is in for a disappointment. Outside Europhiles Anonymous the public is just itching to blame the EU elite over 40 years of small slights and poorly judged sneers, and Mrs May is not going to be slow to take advantage of that should it be required.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think your intial summary correct, but nonetheless it needs to be done. Britain is drunk on Brexit moonshine and needs to hit rockbottom before sobering up enough to realise that a positive and constructive relationship with our neighbours would be a good thing.
I think May would like the latter - the noises from some within Europe are suggesting they are playing hardball, but it's all still just pre-negotiation skirmishing. the one thing we can be clear on - the Lds have nothing to offer in this debate. their line on Brexit, refugees, the economy simply comes across as relentlessly anti-British/luvvie/ naffness. Totally sick-making darling!
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
Quite likely. The EU certainly, and people like me who are seen as defeatist possibly, will be blamed for the consequences of our Brexit decision. That's human nature.
Denis Skinner @BolsoverBeast Unsupported, uncoordinated and nearly crashing down. Ed Balls is doing for dancing what the Tories have done to the UK economy.
Don't write Trump off yet. Yet he's appalling. Yes he couldn't have screwed the last month up any harder. Yes the polls.
And yet Clinton. Ms Continuity Hi America You're Screwed.
On paper she wins big. But the main thing we've all realised in recent years is that paper elections often fail to deliver real results. How many Americans wouldn't dare say publically they'd vote for Him but really can't vote for her and more of the same. Shy voters are still voters.
Anywhere else, against any other candidate, and Trump should be done. But Clinton. But America...
I think Trump has done enough to lose. He's turned the election into a referendum on him, rather than a referendum on Clinton. But, it's not a done deal.
Sums up my feeling. Less than 10% chance of Trump victory, but not zero.
That would make Clinton a buy at 1.11. But more than £400K is trying to lay her at Betfair at 1.18-1.2. Trump has held his position in both the betting market and the polls for the past 10 days. Since the conventions, the pattern in the RCP poll average has been two fast Trump falls followed by slower rises. The guy is no idiot and the NRA is spending a lot of money, while his own TV advertising is focusing on Clinton's supposed physical weakness. He could win this yet. It could stop being a referendum on him.
its 18 days to election. He lost all 3 debates. Too late to turn it round like that!
There's almost as much time between the third debate and the election as the debate period itself ran for. The third debate has had little effect on how he's been doing in either the voting intention polls or the betting market. The two big knocks he's had were the first debate and then a combined one from the second debate and his abuse of women. His big rise came with Clinton's near-collapse on 11 September. He hasn't been going downwards for 10 days now, which in a sense is quite an achievement. Clinton is vulnerable and I suspect Trump's price will be higher than it is now at some point before the election.
If the wheels start to come off some of those abuse accusations over the next week or two, especially if they rebound on HRC's team its going to get interesting. Damage of the "it couldn't have happened like that because he/you weren't there", or simply a catalog of unfortunate revelations about their present or past loyalties that suggest an MRDA response.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
Quite likely. The EU certainly, and people like me who are seen as defeatist possibly, will be blamed for the consequences of our Brexit decision. That's human nature.
Hopefully marked as traitors for life.
I thought you were joking, but if you aren't, you're ridiculous.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
I suspect that you are very likely to be proven right on the first point and will probably be vindicated on the second. The third is too pessimistic. The UK is not a superpower but nor is at as inconsequential as you seem to imply.
But after that: name the decent sized country which a strong commitment to free trade?
If you want to get into free trade with the US or with China, you have to accept (and Australia, Japan and South Korea did with TPP, or Switzerland did with its China deal) incredibly lopsided agreements. So, you might have to accept US ISDS tribunals meeting in secret, or you might have a treaty requirement to keep intellectual property law in lockstep with the US, or you might be obliged to open up your financial services industry to Chinese owned firms, while still being locked out of the Chinese market.
The more I look in to this, the more I agree with this analysis: the type of deals that may be on offer from the US and China are wholly counter to the forces that drove the Brexit vote: the idea of reclaiming our sovereignty, the ability to make our own laws and control our own borders. Even the provisions in the EU/ Canada deal that are the cause of the current controversies raise fundamental questions, how is having corporations sue governments in international courts and rule on areas of public policy any different to the current position whereby decisions can be challenged in the ECJ etc etc
I am far from an expert on this, but it seems that a lot of people on here live in a complete fantasy world about free trade. Liam Fox and David Davis seem to epitomise British naivety on the subject. It can only really be attributed to the fact that we haven't any real understanding of how trade works as it has all been dealt with at an EU level for the last 4 decades.
Perhaps we've reached the limits of free trade. People don't want to swap self-government for government by big corporations? And, who can blame them?
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
Quite likely. The EU certainly, and people like me who are seen as defeatist possibly, will be blamed for the consequences of our Brexit decision. That's human nature.
Hopefully marked as traitors for life.
Tending to being defeatist is absolutely not acting as a traitor
I am far from an expert on this, but it seems that a lot of people on here live in a complete fantasy world about free trade. Liam Fox and David Davis seem to epitomise British naivety on the subject. It can only really be attributed to the fact that we haven't any real understanding of how trade works as it has all been dealt with at an EU level for the last 4 decades.
I am not an expert either, but I suggest that ISDS Tribunals probably don't rule that often on social policy, transport, security, justice, transport, fundamental rights, human rights, labour rights etc etc, except in very narrow cases as they relate to trade, the ECJ slight more so.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think your intial summary correct, but nonetheless it needs to be done. Britain is drunk on Brexit moonshine and needs to hit rockbottom before sobering up enough to realise that a positive and constructive relationship with our neighbours would be a good thing.
I think May would like the latter - the noises from some within Europe are suggesting they are playing hardball, but it's all still just pre-negotiation skirmishing. the one thing we can be clear on - the Lds have nothing to offer in this debate. their line on Brexit, refugees, the economy simply comes across as relentlessly anti-British/luvvie/ naffness. Totally sick-making darling!
Quite, if the LD's we incharge of the negotiations they would sit down with a blank sheet of paper and ask what we were allowed to have.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
Quite likely. The EU certainly, and people like me who are seen as defeatist possibly, will be blamed for the consequences of our Brexit decision. That's human nature.
Hopefully marked as traitors for life.
Just for confirmation purposes: are you the PB member who's moving to Switzerland? You don't have to answer that if you don't want to.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think your intial summary correct, but nonetheless it needs to be done. Britain is drunk on Brexit moonshine and needs to hit rockbottom before sobering up enough to realise that a positive and constructive relationship with our neighbours would be a good thing.
I think May would like the latter - the noises from some within Europe are suggesting they are playing hardball, but it's all still just pre-negotiation skirmishing. the one thing we can be clear on - the Lds have nothing to offer in this debate. their line on Brexit, refugees, the economy simply comes across as relentlessly anti-British/luvvie/ naffness. Totally sick-making darling!
Quite, if the LD's we incharge of the negotiations they would sit down with a blank sheet of paper and ask what we were allowed to have.
Funny then that in coalition negotiations LibDems often prove shrewder than their Tory and Labour counterparts.
Edit/ one of the top requirements for a good negotiator is the ability to see the situation from the other party's point of view. For the Tories on Europe (possibly excepting Boris) that could prove to be a key weakness.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one of the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
This is the attitude that scares me the most about Brexit, because it betrays a lack of empathy and a lack of appreciation of how unbalanced the UK economy is.
Negotiations are about understanding how the person you are talking with feels, and what constrains their actions. The leaders of the EU countries feel spurned. They feel like they a spouse who's been abandoned, and they are answerable to their electorates. Folding to the UK would not go down well internally, especially given that the big four are all going to be paying in more post Brexit.
There is an old adage: you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. It's true.
As regards the UK economy, we look like Spain in 2007. Big current account deficit. Terrible private sector debt problem. Few competitive export industries. An economy dominated by housing.
Now, we do have advantages (like our own currency). But the economic data that's been released since Brexit should scare the living daylights out of you. The Bank of England credit report showed credit card balances expanding, while business investment contracted.
And Mrs May has given no hints to the rest of the world as to future tariff structures, etc.
We can do this, and do this well. But Mrs May is playing for short term political popularity. Good for her. But right now, I'm terrified about the economic outlook in 2017. We're running up debts on our Visa card, and we don't even seem to realise it.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think your intial summary correct, but nonetheless it needs to be done. Britain is drunk on Brexit moonshine and needs to hit rockbottom before sobering up enough to realise that a positive and constructive relationship with our neighbours would be a good thing.
I think May would like the latter - the noises from some within Europe are suggesting they are playing hardball, but it's all still just pre-negotiation skirmishing. the one thing we can be clear on - the Lds have nothing to offer in this debate. their line on Brexit, refugees, the economy simply comes across as relentlessly anti-British/luvvie/ naffness. Totally sick-making darling!
Quite, if the LD's we incharge of the negotiations they would sit down with a blank sheet of paper and ask what we were allowed to have.
Funny then that in coalition negotiations LibDems often prove shrewder than their Tory and Labour counterparts.
Edit/ one of the top requirements for a good negotiator is the ability to see the situation from the other party's point of view. For the Tories on Europe (possibly excepting Boris) that could prove to be a key weakness.
Not at all. Consider the LDs distaste for the Tories and sycophancy for the EU. We already know they are prepared to lie to the electorate for the EU masters.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think your intial summary correct, but nonetheless it needs to be done. Britain is drunk on Brexit moonshine and needs to hit rockbottom before sobering up enough to realise that a positive and constructive relationship with our neighbours would be a good thing.
I think May would like the latter - the noises from some within Europe are suggesting they are playing hardball, but it's all still just pre-negotiation skirmishing. the one thing we can be clear on - the Lds have nothing to offer in this debate. their line on Brexit, refugees, the economy simply comes across as relentlessly anti-British/luvvie/ naffness. Totally sick-making darling!
Quite, if the LD's we incharge of the negotiations they would sit down with a blank sheet of paper and ask what we were allowed to have.
The Libs have always been weak in standing up for Britain in Europe and prone to sucking up to unelected european panjamdrans. Take their former leader Lloyd George:
"David Lloyd George had been so dazzled by the Führer that he compared him to George Washington. Hitler was a “born leader”, declared the befuddled former British prime minister. He wished that Britain had “a man of his supreme quality at the head of affairs in our country today”. "
Fancy a drink; or perhaps a bath? /twitter.com/Israel/status/789915025502789632
It's a big air-conditioner! I live in an area that is permanently around 90% humidity, and the drain pipe from my little 700W air conditioner fills a litre bottle in about 20 minutes!
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think your intial summary correct, but nonetheless it needs to be done. Britain is drunk on Brexit moonshine and needs to hit rockbottom before sobering up enough to realise that a positive and constructive relationship with our neighbours would be a good thing.
I think May would like the latter - the noises from some within Europe are suggesting they are playing hardball, but it's all still just pre-negotiation skirmishing. the one thing we can be clear on - the Lds have nothing to offer in this debate. their line on Brexit, refugees, the economy simply comes across as relentlessly anti-British/luvvie/ naffness. Totally sick-making darling!
Quite, if the LD's we incharge of the negotiations they would sit down with a blank sheet of paper and ask what we were allowed to have.
Funny then that in coalition negotiations LibDems often prove shrewder than their Tory and Labour counterparts.
Edit/ one of the top requirements for a good negotiator is the ability to see the situation from the other party's point of view. For the Tories on Europe (possibly excepting Boris) that could prove to be a key weakness.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think your intial summary correct, but nonetheless it needs to be done. Britain is drunk on Brexit moonshine and needs to hit rockbottom before sobering up enough to realise that a positive and constructive relationship with our neighbours would be a good thing.
I think May would like the latter - the noises from some within Europe are suggesting they are playing hardball, but it's all still just pre-negotiation skirmishing. the one thing we can be clear on - the Lds have nothing to offer in this debate. their line on Brexit, refugees, the economy simply comes across as relentlessly anti-British/luvvie/ naffness. Totally sick-making darling!
Quite, if the LD's we incharge of the negotiations they would sit down with a blank sheet of paper and ask what we were allowed to have.
Funny then that in coalition negotiations LibDems often prove shrewder than their Tory and Labour counterparts.
Edit/ one of the top requirements for a good negotiator is the ability to see the situation from the other party's point of view. For the Tories on Europe (possibly excepting Boris) that could prove to be a key weakness.
The same applies to the EU
Indeed... and they offer us those well know Anglophiles that can be relied on to understand ("empathise with") our point of view, Barnier and Verhofstadt!
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one of the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
This is the attitude that scares me the most about Brexit, because it betrays a lack of empathy and a lack of appreciation of how unbalanced the UK economy is.
Negotiations are about understanding how the person you are talking with feels, and what constrains their actions. The leaders of the EU countries feel spurned. They feel like they a spouse who's been abandoned, and they are answerable to their electorates. Folding to the UK would not go down well internally, especially given that the big four are all going to be paying in more post Brexit.
There is an old adage: you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. It's true.
As regards the UK economy, we look like Spain in 2007. Big current account deficit. Terrible private sector debt problem. Few competitive export industries. An economy dominated by housing.
Now, we do have advantages (like our own currency). But the economic data that's been released since Brexit should scare the living daylights out of you. The Bank of England credit report showed credit card balances expanding, while business investment contracted.
And Mrs May has given no hints to the rest of the world as to future tariff structures, etc.
We can do this, and do this well. But Mrs May is playing for short term political popularity. Good for her. But right now, I'm terrified about the economic outlook in 2017. We're running up debts on our Visa card, and we don't even seem to realise it.
In something as 'big' as this economic uncertainty is inevitable but in Theresa May we have a grown up politician and she will find a way through , despite all the negativity and the 'children' running the EU
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one of the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
This is the attitude that scares me the most about Brexit, because it betrays a lack of empathy and a lack of appreciation of how unbalanced the UK economy is.
Negotiations are about understanding how the person you are talking with feels, and what constrains their actions. The leaders of the EU countries feel spurned. They feel like they a spouse who's been abandoned, and they are answerable to their electorates. Folding to the UK would not go down well internally, especially given that the big four are all going to be paying in more post Brexit.
There is an old adage: you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. It's true.
As regards the UK economy, we look like Spain in 2007. Big current account deficit. Terrible private sector debt problem. Few competitive export industries. An economy dominated by housing.
Now, we do have advantages (like our own currency). But the economic data that's been released since Brexit should scare the living daylights out of you. The Bank of England credit report showed credit card balances expanding, while business investment contracted.
And Mrs May has given no hints to the rest of the world as to future tariff structures, etc.
We can do this, and do this well. But Mrs May is playing for short term political popularity. Good for her. But right now, I'm terrified about the economic outlook in 2017. We're running up debts on our Visa card, and we don't even seem to realise it.
Hard Brexit is on the cards. It is the default option, and until Britain faces that cold grey reality an EEA style deal is not possible.
May will be a poor negotiator. She is stubbon, yet indecisive and lacks charm, diplomatic skills and empathy. In addition she has appointed a trio of stooges who cannot even agree amongst themselves what the optimum position should be.
I'd very interesting data and well worth a thread. However as soon as a realignment created a stop Brexit party there would be a counter realignment around a pro Brexit party. Given the Conservatives under May have already grabbed this territory and this is FPTP...... We need some Leave voters to change their mind before it's too late.
It is too late.
It's not too late. It's currently highly unlikely.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
Quite likely. The EU certainly, and people like me who are seen as defeatist possibly, will be blamed for the consequences of our Brexit decision. That's human nature.
Hopefully marked as traitors for life.
I thought you were joking, but if you aren't, you're ridiculous.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one of the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
This is the attitude that scares me the most about Brexit, because it betrays a lack of empathy and a lack of appreciation of how unbalanced the UK economy is.
Negotiations are about understanding how the person you are talking with feels, and what constrains their actions. The leaders of the EU countries feel spurned. They feel like they a spouse who's been abandoned, and they are answerable to their electorates. Folding to the UK would not go down well internally, especially given that the big four are all going to be paying in more post Brexit.
There is an old adage: you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. It's true.
As regards the UK economy, we look like Spain in 2007. Big current account deficit. Terrible private sector debt problem. Few competitive export industries. An economy dominated by housing.
Now, we do have advantages (like our own currency). But the economic data that's been released since Brexit should scare the living daylights out of you. The Bank of England credit report showed credit card balances expanding, while business investment contracted.
And Mrs May has given no hints to the rest of the world as to future tariff structures, etc.
We can do this, and do this well. But Mrs May is playing for short term political popularity. Good for her. But right now, I'm terrified about the economic outlook in 2017. We're running up debts on our Visa card, and we don't even seem to realise it.
Hard Brexit is on the cards. It is the default option, and until Britain faces that cold grey reality an EEA style deal is not possible.
May will be a poor negotiator. She is stubbon, yet indecisive and lacks charm, diplomatic skills and empathy. In addition she has appointed a trio of stooges who cannot even agree amongst themselves what the optimum position should be.
Batten down the hatches, there are storms ahead.
No she will not - she is just the rounded serious politician that is needed and in any respect, there is absolutely no one else remotely suitable for this mammoth task
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
We've now extended ' Traitor ' from anyone still opposing Brexit to cover those that think it should happen but will be a bit crap ? Brexit Britain is going to be a bundle of laughs.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
I suspect that you are very likely to be proven right on the first point and will probably be vindicated on the second. The third is too pessimistic. The UK is not a superpower but nor is at as inconsequential as you seem to imply.
But after that: name the decent sized country which a strong commitment to free trade?
If you want to get into free trade with the US or with China, you have to accept (and Australia, Japan and South Korea did with TPP, or Switzerland did with its China deal) incredibly lopsided agreements. So, you might have to accept US ISDS tribunals meeting in secret, or you might have a treaty requirement to keep intellectual property law in lockstep with the US, or you might be obliged to open up your financial services industry to Chinese owned firms, while still being locked out of the Chinese market.
The more I look in to this, the more I agree with this analysis: the type of deals that may be on offer from the US and China are wholly counter to the forces that drove the Brexit vote: the idea of reclaiming our sovereignty, the ability to make our own laws and control our own borders. Even the provisions in the EU/ Canada deal that are the cause of the current controversies raise fundamental questions, how is having corporations sue governments in international courts and rule on areas of public policy any different to the current position whereby decisions can be challenged in the ECJ etc etc
I am far from an expert on this, but it seems that a lot of people on here live in a complete fantasy world about free trade. Liam Fox and David Davis seem to epitomise British naivety on the subject. It can only really be attributed to the fact that we haven't any real understanding of how trade works as it has all been dealt with at an EU level for the last 4 decades.
Perhaps we've reached the limits of free trade. People don't want to swap self-government for government by big corporations? And, who can blame them?
Those are certainly the forces that May is trying to court. But then we keep hearing messages from Fox, Davis etc that are about us being a buccaneering free trade nation (?) I personally don't see anything wrong with a bit of protectionism and state aid in pursuit of restructuring our economy away from financial services, insurance and real estate.
Britain’s biggest banks are preparing to relocate out of the UK in the first few months of 2017 amid growing fears over the impending Brexit negotiations, while smaller banks are making plans to get out before Christmas.
The dramatic claim is made in the Observer by the chief executive of the British Bankers’ Association, Anthony Browne, who warns “the public and political debate at the moment is taking us in the wrong direction”.
A source close to Brexit secretary David Davis said he and the chancellor Philip Hammond had last week sought to offer reassurance that they were determined to secure the status of the City of London.
However, the government’s stated intention to take control of the freedom of movement into the UK is widely recognised among officials to be a hammer blow to any chance of retaining the present terms of trade for banks, particularly given the bellicose rhetoric of major politicians on the continent.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
We've now extended ' Traitor ' from anyone still opposing Brexit to cover those that think it should happen but will be a bit crap ? Brexit Britain is going to be a bundle of laughs.
Anyone who questions the wisdom of the Dear Leader; or questions the decisions of the Party should be sent to the gulags.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
We've now extended ' Traitor ' from anyone still opposing Brexit to cover those that think it should happen but will be a bit crap ? Brexit Britain is going to be a bundle of laughs.
Now perhaps the liberal left are beginning to understand what it has been like for the rest of us who are routinely denounced as racists ., sexists, homophobes, islamophobes etc. if we dare to disagree with their social policy obsessions.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
We've now extended ' Traitor ' from anyone still opposing Brexit to cover those that think it should happen but will be a bit crap ? Brexit Britain is going to be a bundle of laughs.
I was (mostly) joking.
I have already said many times that Brexit means a few long and hard years while we adjust to our new position in the world, but we will recover and our democracy, politics and economy will be stronger on the other side.
The relentless negativity from the continuity remain side such as yourself and others here just begins to grate after a while and calling you all traitorous scum is and excellent way of reminding you that you're in the minority, not as Remain voters but as quisling EUphiles who want us to be a part of the super state and hand the keys to the Palace of Westminster to Juncker and Schulz (or their replacements).
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
We've now extended ' Traitor ' from anyone still opposing Brexit to cover those that think it should happen but will be a bit crap ? Brexit Britain is going to be a bundle of laughs.
Remainers and Leavers continue to despise each other. If anything the emotion is intensifying. The onus is on Leavers to consider how they intend converting discord to harmony if they want their hobby horse project to succeed.
Britain’s biggest banks are preparing to relocate out of the UK in the first few months of 2017 amid growing fears over the impending Brexit negotiations, while smaller banks are making plans to get out before Christmas.
The dramatic claim is made in the Observer by the chief executive of the British Bankers’ Association, Anthony Browne, who warns “the public and political debate at the moment is taking us in the wrong direction”.
A source close to Brexit secretary David Davis said he and the chancellor Philip Hammond had last week sought to offer reassurance that they were determined to secure the status of the City of London.
However, the government’s stated intention to take control of the freedom of movement into the UK is widely recognised among officials to be a hammer blow to any chance of retaining the present terms of trade for banks, particularly given the bellicose rhetoric of major politicians on the continent.
This posturing for handouts and special consideration is starting to get a bit of a bore. A week of so ago the papers were full of Nissan threatening to take its new production else where, and then as if by magic this week we find they aren't, well there's a big fat surprise.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
We've now extended ' Traitor ' from anyone still opposing Brexit to cover those that think it should happen but will be a bit crap ? Brexit Britain is going to be a bundle of laughs.
Anyone who questions the wisdom of the Dear Leader; or questions the decisions of the Party should be sent to the gulags.
Im sure there are some suitable stone quarries on the isle of Portland that could be put to good use. Supplies of blunt chisels, bread, water and tents will Im sure be provided.
Great thread - but hardly a surprise that there is a huge segment of the population seeking a europhile centrist party that doesn't exist. The choice at the moment is: europhile no-hopers, nutcase clown trio Hard Brexiteers, Corbyn.
My womenfolk and I had oysters at Sheekeys instead.
It is hard to believe London is about to be toppled by Brexit. But who knows.
London will probably survive, one way or the other. It is the trickle down to the south east and RUK that is the problem. To some extent if London keeps booming post brexit then the main long term opportunity of brexit will be missed, to create an industrial strategy that is not reliant on London's strength as a world city and financial services.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
We've now extended ' Traitor ' from anyone still opposing Brexit to cover those that think it should happen but will be a bit crap ? Brexit Britain is going to be a bundle of laughs.
Remainers and Leavers continue to despise each other. If anything the emotion is intensifying. The onus is on Leavers to consider how they intend converting discord to harmony if they want their hobby horse project to succeed.
I think you will find that in the real world the results have been accepted and everyone has moved on.
However this site is infested with diehard neo vichyists who seem to be obsessed with overturning the referendum and people are getting so fed up with them banging on about it they are resorting to denouncing them.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think your intial summary correct, but nonetheless it needs to be done. Britain is drunk on Brexit moonshine and needs to hit rockbottom before sobering up enough to realise that a positive and constructive relationship with our neighbours would be a good thing.
I think May would like the latter - the noises from some within Europe are suggesting they are playing hardball, but it's all still just pre-negotiation skirmishing. the one thing we can be clear on - the Lds have nothing to offer in this debate. their line on Brexit, refugees, the economy simply comes across as relentlessly anti-British/luvvie/ naffness. Totally sick-making darling!
Quite, if the LD's we incharge of the negotiations they would sit down with a blank sheet of paper and ask what we were allowed to have.
The Libs have always been weak in standing up for Britain in Europe and prone to sucking up to unelected european panjamdrans. Take their former leader Lloyd George:
"David Lloyd George had been so dazzled by the Führer that he compared him to George Washington. Hitler was a “born leader”, declared the befuddled former British prime minister. He wished that Britain had “a man of his supreme quality at the head of affairs in our country today”. "
Brexit might be good after all, it is making the unelected, undeserved, rich elite poorer and making them suffer too.
The Queen is facing a million-pound black hole in her estates’ finances after Brexit which has caused consternation among royal aides, The Sunday Telegraph has learned.
Sandringham Estate, the Queen’s country retreat in Norfolk, will lose close to £700,000 a year when EU farming subsidies end while the farms near Windsor Castle will be around £300,000 down.
Prince Charles’s estates are also facing a funding cut from Brexit of £100,000 a year while the Crown Estate – which manages Royal land – will also be hit.
A source familiar with Buckingham Palace’s finances said there had been concerns since before the EU referendum about the impact of losing the grants.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
We've now extended ' Traitor ' from anyone still opposing Brexit to cover those that think it should happen but will be a bit crap ? Brexit Britain is going to be a bundle of laughs.
Remainers and Leavers continue to despise each other. If anything the emotion is intensifying. The onus is on Leavers to consider how they intend converting discord to harmony if they want their hobby horse project to succeed.
Indeed. It is intense. Horribly so. They won. Some magnimity and compromise would be welcome. No evidence of that so far.
People made three false assumptions about Brexit. Different false assumptions held by different people:
1. Brexit won't happen. 2. EU partners are desperate to give us what we want. 3. We will negotiate a new world order that doesn't involve the EU.
In fact: Brexit will happen, we won't get a good deal from the EU and the rest of the world will effectively ignore us.
Sorry.
The words of a traitor.
We've now extended ' Traitor ' from anyone still opposing Brexit to cover those that think it should happen but will be a bit crap ? Brexit Britain is going to be a bundle of laughs.
Remainers and Leavers continue to despise each other. If anything the emotion is intensifying. The onus is on Leavers to consider how they intend converting discord to harmony if they want their hobby horse project to succeed.
No, the onus is on the side which didn't come first to accept that fact and decide if they are going to assist or get out of the way.
Britain’s biggest banks are preparing to relocate out of the UK in the first few months of 2017 amid growing fears over the impending Brexit negotiations, while smaller banks are making plans to get out before Christmas.
The dramatic claim is made in the Observer by the chief executive of the British Bankers’ Association, Anthony Browne, who warns “the public and political debate at the moment is taking us in the wrong direction”.
A source close to Brexit secretary David Davis said he and the chancellor Philip Hammond had last week sought to offer reassurance that they were determined to secure the status of the City of London.
However, the government’s stated intention to take control of the freedom of movement into the UK is widely recognised among officials to be a hammer blow to any chance of retaining the present terms of trade for banks, particularly given the bellicose rhetoric of major politicians on the continent.
This is all maneuvers. But significant. The pressures on May to produce Soft Brexit are now intense, from all sides, and I believe that is what she will go for. She has virtually no choice, economically.
Look at the rhetoric of David Davis, he's gone from super Hard Brexiteer to ultra cautious -let's-not-damage-the-banks - in weeks.
May will seek some semantic cover by renaming the single market, renaming our contributions, and reframing freedom of movement.
Indeed, I was struck at conference at the thing about how many Tory donors will get shafted because of Brexit, that and this will put pressure on Mrs May for soft Brexit.
Brexit might be good after all, it is making the unelected, undeserved, rich elite poorer and making them suffer too.
The Queen is facing a million-pound black hole in her estates’ finances after Brexit which has caused consternation among royal aides, The Sunday Telegraph has learned.
Sandringham Estate, the Queen’s country retreat in Norfolk, will lose close to £700,000 a year when EU farming subsidies end while the farms near Windsor Castle will be around £300,000 down.
Prince Charles’s estates are also facing a funding cut from Brexit of £100,000 a year while the Crown Estate – which manages Royal land – will also be hit.
A source familiar with Buckingham Palace’s finances said there had been concerns since before the EU referendum about the impact of losing the grants.
I'm pleased the debate has moved on while I popped to Morrisons ( not as glamorous as Soho anecdotes but I live in Leaverstan. ) #1 Yes, folk who believe the EU cause all Britain's ills will not stop believing that once we've left. The framing will just shift from ' we need to get out because they are screwing us ' to ' they screwed us when we got out. '. To the extent Brexit is Viagra for those with cultural erectile dysfunction deeply insecure senses of Britishness that can't cope with Postmodernity and Glibalisation Brexit will make no difference. In the future everyone will Take Back Control for 15 mins. They'll have had their 15mins will go back to being miserable. #2 Yes, we shouldn't lazily assume Brexit going tits up will harm the Conservatives. May is more than capable of channelling Boudica and Glorianna. This could become like a international football competition very quickly. #3 Yes, we are already getting Traitor and the Enemy Within. In many ways Remainia is as Foriegn to many Brexit voters as Romania. The capacity for Brexit difficulties to be internalised is huge. #4 Yes, the comparison wirh the invasion of Iraq is astute ( Blair was comfortably reelected in 2005 ) I expect we'll find the WMD before the £350M per week for the NHS. But winning the quick ground war and toppling Saddam's Statue ( winning the referendum ) isn't the same as successful occupation planning and nation building.
Brexit might be good after all, it is making the unelected, undeserved, rich elite poorer and making them suffer
The Queen is facing a million-pound black hole in her estates’ finances after Brexit which has caused consternation among royal aides, The Sunday Telegraph has learned.
Sandringham Estate, the Queen’s country retreat in Norfolk, will lose close to £700,000 a year when EU farming subsidies end while the farms near Windsor Castle will be around £300,000 down.
Prince Charles’s estates are also facing a funding cut from Brexit of £100,000 a year while the Crown Estate – which manages Royal land – will also be hit.
A source familiar with Buckingham Palace’s finances said there had been concerns since before the EU referendum about the impact of losing the grants.
Britain’s biggest banks are preparing to relocate out of the UK in the first few months of 2017 amid growing fears over the impending Brexit negotiations, while smaller banks are making plans to get out before Christmas.
The dramatic claim is made in the Observer by the chief executive of the British Bankers’ Association, Anthony Browne, who warns “the public and political debate at the moment is taking us in the wrong direction”.
A source close to Brexit secretary David Davis said he and the chancellor Philip Hammond had last week sought to offer reassurance that they were determined to secure the status of the City of London.
However, the government’s stated intention to take control of the freedom of movement into the UK is widely recognised among officials to be a hammer blow to any chance of retaining the present terms of trade for banks, particularly given the bellicose rhetoric of major politicians on the continent.
This is all maneuvers. But significant. The pressures on May to produce Soft Brexit are now intense, from all sides, and I believe that is what she will go for. She has virtually no choice, economically.
Look at the rhetoric of David Davis, he's gone from super Hard Brexiteer to ultra cautious -let's-not-damage-the-banks - in weeks.
May will seek some semantic cover by renaming the single market, renaming our contributions, and reframing freedom of movement.
Indeed, I was struck at conference at the thing about how many Tory donors will get shafted because of Brexit, that and this will put pressure on Mrs May for soft Brexit.
or to either find alternative funders or cut the parties expenses so they can run with the donations of ordinary members rather than vapid corporate scumbags
Comments
I'm a great businessman.
Now, let's get this contract signed!'
Politics is all kinds of wrong these days. The Beast of Bossa Nova.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/21/hillary-clinton/yep-donald-trumps-companies-have-declared-bankrupt/
FL - Clinton 47 .. Trump 41
OH - Clinton 42 .. Trump 43
PA - Clinton 44 .. Trump 41
NC - Clinton 46 .. Trump 41
http://www.allianceesapoll.com/new-poll-results.html
"The former Labour Cabinet minister Ed Balls kept wicket for the parliamentary team at Lord's in 2011, although his performance did not excite the watching Alec Stewart, whose verdict was "More of a shopkeeper than a wicketkeeper."
http://phone.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/563928.html
Has anyone read Ed Balls' autobiography, if so what is the verdict?
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
Trump himself has never filed for bankruptcy. Four of his corporations have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
As a clue for you, because you don't appear to be the brightest paranja on the hatstand:
By filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the corporation is allowed to continue running while restructuring and reducing its debt. By allowing the business to continue, employees still have their jobs and the business is still making money. Corporate debts still need to be repaid but they may be reduced. The corporation must develop a repayment plan and corporate budget. Both must be approved by the creditors and by the bankruptcy court.
A corporation is a separate legal entity from its shareholders, other owners, board of directors, and CEO. Since it is a separate entity, the corporation files bankruptcy under its own name. In Chapter 11 bankruptcies, the owners’ personal assets are not at risk. The owners’ credit history remains intact.
Florida especially
Surgical?
I am far from an expert on this, but it seems that a lot of people on here live in a complete fantasy world about free trade. Liam Fox and David Davis seem to epitomise British naivety on the subject. It can only really be attributed to the fact that we haven't any real understanding of how trade works as it has all been dealt with at an EU level for the last 4 decades.
Edit/ one of the top requirements for a good negotiator is the ability to see the situation from the other party's point of view. For the Tories on Europe (possibly excepting Boris) that could prove to be a key weakness.
https://twitter.com/Israel/status/789915025502789632
Negotiations are about understanding how the person you are talking with feels, and what constrains their actions. The leaders of the EU countries feel spurned. They feel like they a spouse who's been abandoned, and they are answerable to their electorates. Folding to the UK would not go down well internally, especially given that the big four are all going to be paying in more post Brexit.
There is an old adage: you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. It's true.
As regards the UK economy, we look like Spain in 2007. Big current account deficit. Terrible private sector debt problem. Few competitive export industries. An economy dominated by housing.
Now, we do have advantages (like our own currency). But the economic data that's been released since Brexit should scare the living daylights out of you. The Bank of England credit report showed credit card balances expanding, while business investment contracted.
And Mrs May has given no hints to the rest of the world as to future tariff structures, etc.
We can do this, and do this well. But Mrs May is playing for short term political popularity. Good for her. But right now, I'm terrified about the economic outlook in 2017. We're running up debts on our Visa card, and we don't even seem to realise it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2IyolsVu8o
"David Lloyd George had been so dazzled by the Führer that he compared him to George Washington. Hitler was a “born leader”, declared the befuddled former British prime minister. He wished that Britain had “a man of his supreme quality at the head of affairs in our country today”. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11157482/The-day-Churchill-saved-Britain-from-the-Nazis.html
http://thehill.com/campaign/302231-clinton-holds-huge-ground-game-advantage-over-team-trump
Surely, defeatist rather than traitor.
Literally true as far as Brexit is concerned.
I am nevertheless right about Brexit. It's an Iraq invasion style event. You know going in what will probably happen and you can see the main actors, in this case Theresa May, are so invested in the rhetoric of the project they are not taking the steps that would maximise the relatively few chances of success.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one of the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
This is the attitude that scares me the most about Brexit, because it betrays a lack of empathy and a lack of appreciation of how unbalanced the UK economy is.
Negotiations are about understanding how the person you are talking with feels, and what constrains their actions. The leaders of the EU countries feel spurned. They feel like they a spouse who's been abandoned, and they are answerable to their electorates. Folding to the UK would not go down well internally, especially given that the big four are all going to be paying in more post Brexit.
There is an old adage: you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. It's true.
As regards the UK economy, we look like Spain in 2007. Big current account deficit. Terrible private sector debt problem. Few competitive export industries. An economy dominated by housing.
Now, we do have advantages (like our own currency). But the economic data that's been released since Brexit should scare the living daylights out of you. The Bank of England credit report showed credit card balances expanding, while business investment contracted.
And Mrs May has given no hints to the rest of the world as to future tariff structures, etc.
We can do this, and do this well. But Mrs May is playing for short term political popularity. Good for her. But right now, I'm terrified about the economic outlook in 2017. We're running up debts on our Visa card, and we don't even seem to realise it.
In something as 'big' as this economic uncertainty is inevitable but in Theresa May we have a grown up politician and she will find a way through , despite all the negativity and the 'children' running the EU
May will be a poor negotiator. She is stubbon, yet indecisive and lacks charm, diplomatic skills and empathy. In addition she has appointed a trio of stooges who cannot even agree amongst themselves what the optimum position should be.
Batten down the hatches, there are storms ahead.
I think you may well find that as she stands up for the UK against the 'children' running the EU that she will become one of the most popular PM's we have seen. The more we are threatened by doom mongers the more her popularity will rise
This is the attitude that scares me the most about Brexit, because it betrays a lack of empathy and a lack of appreciation of how unbalanced the UK economy is.
Negotiations are about understanding how the person you are talking with feels, and what constrains their actions. The leaders of the EU countries feel spurned. They feel like they a spouse who's been abandoned, and they are answerable to their electorates. Folding to the UK would not go down well internally, especially given that the big four are all going to be paying in more post Brexit.
There is an old adage: you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. It's true.
As regards the UK economy, we look like Spain in 2007. Big current account deficit. Terrible private sector debt problem. Few competitive export industries. An economy dominated by housing.
Now, we do have advantages (like our own currency). But the economic data that's been released since Brexit should scare the living daylights out of you. The Bank of England credit report showed credit card balances expanding, while business investment contracted.
And Mrs May has given no hints to the rest of the world as to future tariff structures, etc.
We can do this, and do this well. But Mrs May is playing for short term political popularity. Good for her. But right now, I'm terrified about the economic outlook in 2017. We're running up debts on our Visa card, and we don't even seem to realise it.
Hard Brexit is on the cards. It is the default option, and until Britain faces that cold grey reality an EEA style deal is not possible.
May will be a poor negotiator. She is stubbon, yet indecisive and lacks charm, diplomatic skills and empathy. In addition she has appointed a trio of stooges who cannot even agree amongst themselves what the optimum position should be.
Batten down the hatches, there are storms ahead.
No she will not - she is just the rounded serious politician that is needed and in any respect, there is absolutely no one else remotely suitable for this mammoth task
I personally don't see anything wrong with a bit of protectionism and state aid in pursuit of restructuring our economy away from financial services, insurance and real estate.
Britain’s biggest banks are preparing to relocate out of the UK in the first few months of 2017 amid growing fears over the impending Brexit negotiations, while smaller banks are making plans to get out before Christmas.
The dramatic claim is made in the Observer by the chief executive of the British Bankers’ Association, Anthony Browne, who warns “the public and political debate at the moment is taking us in the wrong direction”.
A source close to Brexit secretary David Davis said he and the chancellor Philip Hammond had last week sought to offer reassurance that they were determined to secure the status of the City of London.
However, the government’s stated intention to take control of the freedom of movement into the UK is widely recognised among officials to be a hammer blow to any chance of retaining the present terms of trade for banks, particularly given the bellicose rhetoric of major politicians on the continent.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/22/leading-banks-set-to-pull-out-of-brexit-uk?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1477167602
I have already said many times that Brexit means a few long and hard years while we adjust to our new position in the world, but we will recover and our democracy, politics and economy will be stronger on the other side.
The relentless negativity from the continuity remain side such as yourself and others here just begins to grate after a while and calling you all traitorous scum is and excellent way of reminding you that you're in the minority, not as Remain voters but as quisling EUphiles who want us to be a part of the super state and hand the keys to the Palace of Westminster to Juncker and Schulz (or their replacements).
Sign me up. Just sign me up.
To some extent if London keeps booming post brexit then the main long term opportunity of brexit will be missed, to create an industrial strategy that is not reliant on London's strength as a world city and financial services.
However this site is infested with diehard neo vichyists who seem to be obsessed with overturning the referendum and people are getting so fed up with them banging on about it they are resorting to denouncing them.
The Queen is facing a million-pound black hole in her estates’ finances after Brexit which has caused consternation among royal aides, The Sunday Telegraph has learned.
Sandringham Estate, the Queen’s country retreat in Norfolk, will lose close to £700,000 a year when EU farming subsidies end while the farms near Windsor Castle will be around £300,000 down.
Prince Charles’s estates are also facing a funding cut from Brexit of £100,000 a year while the Crown Estate – which manages Royal land – will also be hit.
A source familiar with Buckingham Palace’s finances said there had been concerns since before the EU referendum about the impact of losing the grants.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/22/queen-facing-million-pound-black-hole-in-estate-finances-after-b/