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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trumpgate could gift the Democrats the jackpot

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  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 58m58 minutes ago
    Remoaner special
    http://tinyurl.com/j5dlygg
    (Matthew Parris - Project Fear mk2)

    That looks like a fun read, but I am not willing to pay Mr Murdoch to be able to do so!
  • Options
    Out of interest, what do people think would have happened in 1997 if the exhausted, unelectable, sleazy, Major government had been up against Corbyn and co?

  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325

    Out of interest, what do people think would have happened in 1997 if the exhausted, unelectable, sleazy, Major government had been up against Corbyn and co?

    November 8th
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    This is a good example of why the Trump charges are getting panned by his side

    Email from sexual assault accuser to Trump's assistants 5 months ago... https://t.co/GXnBYDVXd8
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,038
    IanB2 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    P.s. I also forgot leadership - the allied leadership systems allowed more independent action (at strategic level) whereas the Germans were increasingly hampered by one man's erratic and controlling ways. However at battlefield level it was considered the German setup was superior.

    ar.
    -)
    ...
    ...
    Had we lost the Battle of Britain, they could well have won that argument. Victory did much to cement Churchill's position; defeat might have toppled him.
    Possible, rather than probable, but I think it the only way Hitler might have won his lunatic race war.
    As I recall (from history rather than memory!) Churchill was at his weakest after the Norway disaster?


    I can well understand the Liberal mindset - that a community of nations is more valuable than a single nation. I just wholeheartedly disagree with it.

    Similarly I can understand the old fashioned Labour mindset - that a community of people is more valuable than the nations that they're in conditions of relative peace (i.e. the Labour party were happy to join the National Govt to fight Germany in 1940 because Fascism was attacking us) . I just think it simplistic and overly idealistic given the frailties of the human condition.

    What I simply do not understand is the current Labour party leadership - who see the awful underdogs as always better than the sometimes self interested West. Nor do the people of this country, it seems. Mores the better.
    The point that Mr B2 was making was that in 1939-40 there appear to have been a significant number of prominent Tories who beliieved that it was NOT in the nation’s interest to fight Fascism.
    Damned europhiles.
    I laughed at your response but it is probably flawed! As I recollect, it was the more right wing Tories back then who were least interested in resisting the Germans. Today it is the more right wing Tories that don't like the EU. After all, Churchill was actually very pro-European after the war.
    Yup. And Churchill actually offered a Union to France, although admittedly that was to try and keep them fighting on.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 58m58 minutes ago
    Remoaner special
    http://tinyurl.com/j5dlygg
    (Matthew Parris - Project Fear mk2)


    Doesn't change the Referendum decision. We're not going back, the past is in the past.

  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Megan Kelly is experiencing karma from viewers. Her audience isn't happy and seem delighted that others are boycotting her too.

    Very Top Gear over Chris Evans.

    http://dcwhispers.com/wow-megyn-kelly-getting-pummeled-ratings-trump-supporters-boycott-program/#JXeCr5REAvMBPWZg.99

    taffys said:

    Cue handwaving

    That is a disturbing piece of television in very many ways. America is breaking apart.

    I watch about 15+ media clips a day across the stations - it's seriously OTT on both sides.

    The very strong feeling that the election is being stolen/fixed/rigged is huge. It's making Brexit Wars look tame. I saw a CNN clip earlier where they discussed Wikileaks and compared it a post-campaign book before the result. And then all five commentators waved away all the leaks as nothing and said it showed how centrist Hillary was/that's a good thing.

    I just laughed like a drain. I know it's one of the few free news services here on satellite TV - but anyone taking their word as gospel needs a slap. It's Guardian TV on steroids.
    The US 'news' networks are now completely unwatchable. They all take an absurdly partisan view, present "Fact Check" pieces that are no more than spin and there's way more heat being generated than light.

    As others have said, there is something seriously wrong with the USA at the moment, and the election is only making things worse. Much worse.
    The Fact Check stuff really is quite incredible. Both in what they decide to Fact Check and what they decide isn't worth it, and how they then make a "judgement call" on lots of things.


    Time to start Fact Checking Fact Checks...

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    Out of interest, what do people think would have happened in 1997 if the exhausted, unelectable, sleazy, Major government had been up against Corbyn and co?

    Isn't that pretty much what we're all watching in the US right now?

    The key difference being that we cant get a Hung Parliament in the US Presidential election.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,760

    IanB2 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    P.s. I also forgot leadership - the allied leadership systems allowed more independent action (at strategic level) whereas the Germans were increasingly hampered by one man's erratic and controlling ways. However at battlefield level it was considered the German setup was superior.

    ar.
    -)
    ...
    ...
    Had we lost the Battle of Britain, they could well have won that argument. Victory did much to cement Churchill's position; defeat might have toppled him.
    Possible, rather than probable, but I think it the only way Hitler might have won his lunatic race war.
    As I recall (from history rather than memory!) Churchill was at his weakest after the Norway disaster?


    I can well understand the Liberal mindset - that a community of nations is more valuable than a single nation. I just wholeheartedly disagree with it.

    Similarly I can understand the old fashioned Labour mindset - that a community of people is more valuable than the nations that they're in conditions of relative peace (i.e. the Labour party were happy to join the National Govt to fight Germany in 1940 because Fascism was attacking us) . I just think it simplistic and overly idealistic given the frailties of the human condition.

    What I simply do not understand is the current Labour party leadership - who see the awful underdogs as always better than the sometimes self interested West. Nor do the people of this country, it seems. Mores the better.
    The point that Mr B2 was making was that in 1939-40 there appear to have been a significant number of prominent Tories who beliieved that it was NOT in the nation’s interest to fight Fascism.
    Damned europhiles.
    I laughed at your response but it is probably flawed! As I recollect, it was the more right wing Tories back then who were least interested in resisting the Germans. Today it is the more right wing Tories that don't like the EU. After all, Churchill was actually very pro-European after the war.
    Yup. And Churchill actually offered a Union to France, although admittedly that was to try and keep them fighting on.
    They preferred Union with Germany
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,038
    IanB2 said:

    Out of interest, what do people think would have happened in 1997 if the exhausted, unelectable, sleazy, Major government had been up against Corbyn and co?

    November 8th
    Ashdown PM.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    For anyone who missed it, Trump is going to bypass the media even more. I know his supporters have suggested he buys TV advertising time to do a direct broadcast.

    That's a biggie if it happens.

    "Trump to address nation in personal way to present his vision on how together we can bring back Am jobs & defend our country from terrorism https://t.co/rVw3KwbB1N
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,785
    IanB2 said:

    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    P.s. I also forgot leadership - the allied leadership systems allowed more independent action (at strategic level) whereas the Germans were increasingly hampered by one man's erratic and controlling ways. However at battlefield level it was considered the German setup was superior.

    ar.
    -)
    ...
    ...
    Had we lost the Battle of Britain, they could well have won that argument. Victory did much to cement Churchill's position; defeat might have toppled him.
    Possible, rather than probable, but I think it the only way Hitler might have won his lunatic race war.
    As I recall (from history rather than memory!) Churchill was at his weakest after the Norway disaster?


    Even Churchill had to face down a vote of no confidence in him by his local constituency party, for his perceived anti-government 'rebel' stance in opposing appeasement in the late 1930s, which he survived by a single vote.

    I sometimes wonder whether Conservatives feel the need to try and claim the flag today in part because their party's record, when it really mattered, was pretty shameful?


    I can well understand the Liberal mindset - that a community of nations is more valuable than a single nation. I just wholeheartedly disagree with it.

    Similarly I can understand the old fashioned Labour mindset - that a community of people is more valuable than the nations that they're in conditions of relative peace (i.e. the Labour party were happy to join the National Govt to fight Germany in 1940 because Fascism was attacking us) . I just think it simplistic and overly idealistic given the frailties of the human condition.

    What I simply do not understand is the current Labour party leadership - who see the awful underdogs as always better than the sometimes self interested West. Nor do the people of this country, it seems. Mores the better.
    The point that Mr B2 was making was that in 1939-40 there appear to have been a significant number of prominent Tories who beliieved that it was NOT in the nation’s interest to fight Fascism.
    Damned europhiles.
    Churchill was actually very pro-European after the war.
    As a bulwark against communism. Great Britain should stick to running its empire....
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Out of interest, what do people think would have happened in 1997 if the exhausted, unelectable, sleazy, Major government had been up against Corbyn and co?


    Venezuela.

  • Options

    So, no extra money for the NHS. Instead, money that could have been spent on the NHS will be spent on ensuring automakers won't leave the country because we are leaving the single market. Not quite what Boris & co, promised is it?

    Isn't this Nissan compensation deal exactly what I posted that Will Hutton had written the other week and I got flamed to bits by Leavers saying Hutton didn't know what the hell he was talking about.

    Essentially, the taxpayer will be paying Nissan not to quit. And having seen that, what do you think other CEOs of other companies are going to do? Money that could have been spent elsewhere will instead be spent on mitigating the negative effects of leaving the single market. Boris is Baldrick and I claim my £5. The Tories have abandoned any pretence to be a pro-capitalist, free market party. We no longer have one of those in the UK.

    This Nissan ?

    ' The UK car industry is in trouble again, after a threat by Nissan to shift production from its Sunderland plant to the continent because of the strength of sterling.

    Also at stake are thousands of jobs with suppliers of the company.

    Nissan is under major pressure to restructure itself worldwide to become profitable again. The company is now controlled by Renault, which has begun a massive programme of plant closures in Japan.

    A number of other car firms - among them Toyota, Honda, BMW and General Motors (Vauxhall) - have already expressed their unease about the value of the pound, and warned that uncertainty about British membership of the euro could affect their investment decisions. '

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/812632.stm

    That was from 2000.

    Or this Nissan ?

    ' JAPAN'S Nissan Motor has issued its bluntest warning yet that Britain must commit itself to joining the euro or lose further investment in its Sunderland plant. 'If the signs are clear and reassuring, we will reinvest in Sunderland,' chief executive Carlos Ghosn said in an interview in today's French financial daily Les Echos. 'If there are too many risks we will go elsewhere,' he added. '

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1525130/Nissan-warns-UK-over-euro-entry.html

    That was from 2003.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Megan Kelly is experiencing karma from viewers. Her audience isn't happy and seem delighted that others are boycotting her too.

    Very Top Gear over Chris Evans.

    http://dcwhispers.com/wow-megyn-kelly-getting-pummeled-ratings-trump-supporters-boycott-program/#JXeCr5REAvMBPWZg.99

    taffys said:

    Cue handwaving

    That is a disturbing piece of television in very many ways. America is breaking apart.

    I watch about 15+ media clips a day across the stations - it's seriously OTT on both sides.

    The very strong feeling that the election is being stolen/fixed/rigged is huge. It's making Brexit Wars look tame. I saw a CNN clip earlier where they discussed Wikileaks and compared it a post-campaign book before the result. And then all five commentators waved away all the leaks as nothing and said it showed how centrist Hillary was/that's a good thing.

    I just laughed like a drain. I know it's one of the few free news services here on satellite TV - but anyone taking their word as gospel needs a slap. It's Guardian TV on steroids.
    The US 'news' networks are now completely unwatchable. They all take an absurdly partisan view, present "Fact Check" pieces that are no more than spin and there's way more heat being generated than light.
    As others have said, there is something seriously wrong with the USA at the moment, and the election is only making things worse. Much worse.
    There is a large dislocation between most of the USA media and their audience on political views. The average voter in the USA is to the right of voters in the UK. Yet (excluding Fox) the USA broadcast media is in a similar centre left place that the UK broadcast media is.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    And another example

    BREAKING: Trump Accuser Lawyer @GloriaAllred Democrat Fundraiser In @WikiLeaks Emails, Tried To Kill Romney Campaign https://t.co/HDUYCfyUIU
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2016

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Megan Kelly is experiencing karma from viewers. Her audience isn't happy and seem delighted that others are boycotting her too.

    Very Top Gear over Chris Evans.

    http://dcwhispers.com/wow-megyn-kelly-getting-pummeled-ratings-trump-supporters-boycott-program/#JXeCr5REAvMBPWZg.99

    taffys said:

    Cue handwaving

    That is a disturbing piece of television in very many ways. America is breaking apart.

    I watch about 15+ media clips a day across the stations - it's seriously OTT on both sides.

    The very strong feeling that the election is being stolen/fixed/rigged is huge. It's making Brexit Wars look tame. I saw a CNN clip earlier where they discussed Wikileaks and compared it a post-campaign book before the result. And then all five commentators waved away all the leaks as nothing and said it showed how centrist Hillary was/that's a good thing.

    I just laughed like a drain. I know it's one of the few free news services here on satellite TV - but anyone taking their word as gospel needs a slap. It's Guardian TV on steroids.
    The US 'news' networks are now completely unwatchable. They all take an absurdly partisan view, present "Fact Check" pieces that are no more than spin and there's way more heat being generated than light.

    As others have said, there is something seriously wrong with the USA at the moment, and the election is only making things worse. Much worse.
    The Fact Check stuff really is quite incredible. Both in what they decide to Fact Check and what they decide isn't worth it, and how they then make a "judgement call" on lots of things.


    Time to start Fact Checking Fact Checks...

    Even snopes have been doing it. The incident of the girl asking the perfect setup question in a town hall with Clinton, they called the claim that it was anyway a setup false....despite the girl been shown to had previous acting experience (including for politicians tv ads), was standing there with the question on a card AND the daughter of a Democrat elected official....I mean come on....come on.

    It feels like so many people feel it is their duty to stop Trump at all costs.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,919
    edited October 2016
    @Sandpit re HIGNFY

    The value of the pound that's always quoted is a theoretical midpoint between the "buy price" and the "sell price". The "buy price" is the price in dollars to buy 1 pound, the "sell price" is the number of dollars you can get if you sell 1 pound. One is always lower than the other, and the difference between the two is known as the "spread"[1]. The presenter was quoting the lower of the two, the sell price.[2]

    If you want to make money from currency exchanges (or at least minimise your loss!) then a small spread is vital. If you open a dollar account and sterling account in the same bank (it can be done), then the spread is 6-8 cents. If you do it in a bureaux, then the spread is something like 15 cents. Specialist exchange traders (Tor, Tramonex, et al) can get it to (from memory) about 3 cents but they come with conditions.

    As one kind person on here pointed out, you can also get an index account from a spread betting/financial futures trading[3], where you can do spread betting on a currency index[4] and there the spread is 1-2 cents.

    Tricks exist to get the spread to zero. Travelex, Sainsbury and Tesco offer buyback schemes for a fixed period (eg 45 days) which equates to a zero spread. The Halifax Clarity card offers a zero spread for purchases, tho' whether you can use it to convert currency is not known to me.

    [1] Unless you are a Nevada gambler, in which case the word is also used for...oh never mind, American gambling, why can't they just go decimal like everybody else... :)
    [2] Unless I get the two mixed up... :(
    [3] Terminology is a bit fucked here: the American and British meanings of "spread betting" are subtly different and are overseen by different authorities, so apologies to any Americans reading
    [4] Is the index the midpoint of a currency? Hmm...,
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Another 30+ dead in a bombing in Iraq.

    Doesn't rate front page of BBC news site.

  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited October 2016


    @FrancisUrquhart


    The Fact Check stuff really is quite incredible. Both in what they decide to Fact Check and what they decide isn't worth it, and how they then make a "judgement call" on lots of things.

    Last polling I saw on 'fact checking' was at 32% believing it - so that's = Democrat core vote.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,282
    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone who missed it, Trump is going to bypass the media even more. I know his supporters have suggested he buys TV advertising time to do a direct broadcast.

    That's a biggie if it happens.

    "Trump to address nation in personal way to present his vision on how together we can bring back Am jobs & defend our country from terrorism https://t.co/rVw3KwbB1N

    There are gonna be some very angry people when Trump falls to a landslide.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,785

    So, no extra money for the NHS. Instead, money that could have been spent on the NHS will be spent on ensuring automakers won't leave the country because we are leaving the single market. Not quite what Boris & co, promised is it?

    Isn't this Nissan compensation deal exactly what I posted that Will Hutton had written the other week and I got flamed to bits by Leavers saying Hutton didn't know what the hell he was talking about.

    Essentially, the taxpayer will be paying Nissan not to quit. And having seen that, what do you think other CEOs of other companies are going to do? Money that could have been spent elsewhere will instead be spent on mitigating the negative effects of leaving the single market. Boris is Baldrick and I claim my £5. The Tories have abandoned any pretence to be a pro-capitalist, free market party. We no longer have one of those in the UK.

    This Nissan ?


    That was from 2000.

    Or this Nissan ?


    That was from 2003.
    Mr Goshn has cried wolf more than once.....Sunderland didn't believe him & voted 61:39.....
  • Options
    "Nissan left the meeting stating that it was confident that the Government would ensure that Britain remained a competitive place to do business, ..... carmakers – and other large investors – have long since mastered the art of bidding for special deals, tax exemptions and the like when choosing where to locate their car plants.
    Countries compete for these and are willing to offer sweeteners to get the business; if the UK were to leave the single market as well as the EU, competition rules would no longer apply and thus some currently banned forms of inducement (currently classed as state aid) may become legal. So it is in the interest of companies to exaggerate any potential problems from Brexit, in the hope of greater inducements.....
    Second, Nissan is 43.4pc owned by Renault....Renault itself is 19.74pc owned by the French state, which is aghast at Brexit and of course also wants to attract investment to France. Ghosn is the boss of Nissan – but he is also simultaneously chairman and chief executive of Renault Group.
    I’m sure that Nissan is only, and rightly, acting in its commercial self-interest – but the broader political context cannot be ignored."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/this-is-the-right-way-to-help-carmakers-after-brexit/
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,282

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 58m58 minutes ago
    Remoaner special
    http://tinyurl.com/j5dlygg
    (Matthew Parris - Project Fear mk2)


    Doesn't change the Referendum decision. We're not going back, the past is in the past.

    We'll see how long before the public starts to have second thoughts. I suspect by next Spring serious doubts will be spreading.
  • Options

    Out of interest, what do people think would have happened in 1997 if the exhausted, unelectable, sleazy, Major government had been up against Corbyn and co?

    PM Paddy Ashdown
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,760
    edited October 2016

    Out of interest, what do people think would have happened in 1997 if the exhausted, unelectable, sleazy, Major government had been up against Corbyn and co?

    PM Paddy Ashdown
    Odd that the people shouting most about Nissan are the same ones who want Mrs May to accommodate Goldman Sachs
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Megan Kelly is experiencing karma from viewers. Her audience isn't happy and seem delighted that others are boycotting her too.

    Very Top Gear over Chris Evans.

    http://dcwhispers.com/wow-megyn-kelly-getting-pummeled-ratings-trump-supporters-boycott-program/#JXeCr5REAvMBPWZg.99

    taffys said:

    Cue handwaving

    That is a disturbing piece of television in very many ways. America is breaking apart.

    I watch about 15+ media clips a day across the stations - it's seriously OTT on both sides.

    The very strong feeling that the election is being stolen/fixed/rigged is huge. It's making Brexit Wars look tame. I saw a CNN clip earlier where they discussed Wikileaks and compared it a post-campaign book before the result. And then all five commentators waved away all the leaks as nothing and said it showed how centrist Hillary was/that's a good thing.

    I just laughed like a drain. I know it's one of the few free news services here on satellite TV - but anyone taking their word as gospel needs a slap. It's Guardian TV on steroids.
    The US 'news' networks are now completely unwatchable. They all take an absurdly partisan view, present "Fact Check" pieces that are no more than spin and there's way more heat being generated than light.

    As others have said, there is something seriously wrong with the USA at the moment, and the election is only making things worse. Much worse.
    The Fact Check stuff really is quite incredible. Both in what they decide to Fact Check and what they decide isn't worth it, and how they then make a "judgement call" on lots of things.
    And to add that the whole thing is almost completely devoid of any policy.

    Trump has one policy to build a wall, the empty slogan MAGA, something non-specific on tax cuts and repealing the healthcare bill. Clinton has something about packing the Supreme Court because Abortion and gay marriage, otherwise continuity Obama. That's it. Nothing on huge areas of policy and - more importantly - no-one challenging either campaign on what they're saying about policy.

    Everyone is just interested in 24/7 running commentary on the proverbial pair of monkeys throwing sh1t at each other, hardly the way to conduct the election in the world's largest economy.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,919

    The Tories have abandoned any pretence to be a pro-capitalist, free market party. We no longer have one of those in the UK.

    Good point. Conservative MPs calling for a boycott of Unilever was unsettling. There was a time when the Conservative party was business-friendly. Now it sees to be becoming positively business-hostile.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Megan Kelly is experiencing karma from viewers. Her audience isn't happy and seem delighted that others are boycotting her too.

    Very Top Gear over Chris Evans.

    http://dcwhispers.com/wow-megyn-kelly-getting-pummeled-ratings-trump-supporters-boycott-program/#JXeCr5REAvMBPWZg.99

    taffys said:

    Cue handwaving

    That is a disturbing piece of television in very many ways. America is breaking apart.

    I watch about 15+ media clips a day across the stations - it's seriously OTT on both sides.

    The very strong feeling that the election is being stolen/fixed/rigged is huge. It's making Brexit Wars look tame. I saw a CNN clip earlier where they discussed Wikileaks and compared it a post-campaign book before the result. And then all five commentators waved away all the leaks as nothing and said it showed how centrist Hillary was/that's a good thing.

    I just laughed like a drain. I know it's one of the few free news services here on satellite TV - but anyone taking their word as gospel needs a slap. It's Guardian TV on steroids.
    The US 'news' networks are now completely unwatchable. They all take an absurdly partisan view, present "Fact Check" pieces that are no more than spin and there's way more heat being generated than light.

    As others have said, there is something seriously wrong with the USA at the moment, and the election is only making things worse. Much worse.
    The Fact Check stuff really is quite incredible. Both in what they decide to Fact Check and what they decide isn't worth it, and how they then make a "judgement call" on lots of things.
    And to add that the whole thing is almost completely devoid of any policy.

    Trump has one policy to build a wall, the empty slogan MAGA, something non-specific on tax cuts and repealing the healthcare bill. Clinton has something about packing the Supreme Court because Abortion and gay marriage, otherwise continuity Obama. That's it. Nothing on huge areas of policy and - more importantly - no-one challenging either campaign on what they're saying about policy.

    Everyone is just interested in 24/7 running commentary on the proverbial pair of monkeys throwing sh1t at each other, hardly the way to conduct the election in the world's largest economy.
    I have said this after both debates, I still have f##k all idea what Clinton's policies are. 3hrs of debates and not a sausage.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Out of interest, what do people think would have happened in 1997 if the exhausted, unelectable, sleazy, Major government had been up against Corbyn and co?

    Isn't that pretty much what we're all watching in the US right now?

    The key difference being that we cant get a Hung Parliament in the US Presidential election.
    Indeed, thats why I asked.
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited October 2016
    "Staffordshire bull terrier which killed a baby and mauled his toddler brother belongs to their policewoman aunt as it's revealed the young family moved in with her just one week ago"
    :astonished:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3839405/Staffordshire-bull-terrier-killed-baby-mauled-brother-mother-moved-policewoman-sister-s-house.html
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Megan Kelly is experiencing karma from viewers. Her audience isn't happy and seem delighted that others are boycotting her too.

    Very Top Gear over Chris Evans.

    http://dcwhispers.com/wow-megyn-kelly-getting-pummeled-ratings-trump-supporters-boycott-program/#JXeCr5REAvMBPWZg.99

    taffys said:

    Cue handwaving

    That is a disturbing piece of television in very many ways. America is breaking apart.

    I watch about 15+ media clips a day across the stations - it's seriously OTT on both sides.

    The very strong feeling that the election is being stolen/fixed/rigged is huge. It's making Brexit Wars look tame. I saw a CNN clip earlier where they discussed Wikileaks and compared it a post-campaign book before the result. And then all five commentators waved away all the leaks as nothing and said it showed how centrist Hillary was/that's a good thing.

    I just laughed like a drain. I know it's one of the few free news services here on satellite TV - but anyone taking their word as gospel needs a slap. It's Guardian TV on steroids.
    The US 'news' networks are now completely unwatchable. They all take an absurdly partisan view, present "Fact Check" pieces that are no more than spin and there's way more heat being generated than light.

    As others have said, there is something seriously wrong with the USA at the moment, and the election is only making things worse. Much worse.
    The Fact Check stuff really is quite incredible. Both in what they decide to Fact Check and what they decide isn't worth it, and how they then make a "judgement call" on lots of things.
    And to add that the whole thing is almost completely devoid of any policy.

    Trump has one policy to build a wall, the empty slogan MAGA, something non-specific on tax cuts and repealing the healthcare bill. Clinton has something about packing the Supreme Court because Abortion and gay marriage, otherwise continuity Obama. That's it. Nothing on huge areas of policy and - more importantly - no-one challenging either campaign on what they're saying about policy.

    Everyone is just interested in 24/7 running commentary on the proverbial pair of monkeys throwing sh1t at each other, hardly the way to conduct the election in the world's largest economy.

    Quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat

  • Options

    So, no extra money for the NHS. Instead, money that could have been spent on the NHS will be spent on ensuring automakers won't leave the country because we are leaving the single market. Not quite what Boris & co, promised is it?

    Isn't this Nissan compensation deal exactly what I posted that Will Hutton had written the other week and I got flamed to bits by Leavers saying Hutton didn't know what the hell he was talking about.

    Essentially, the taxpayer will be paying Nissan not to quit. And having seen that, what do you think other CEOs of other companies are going to do? Money that could have been spent elsewhere will instead be spent on mitigating the negative effects of leaving the single market. Boris is Baldrick and I claim my £5. The Tories have abandoned any pretence to be a pro-capitalist, free market party. We no longer have one of those in the UK.

    This Nissan ?

    ' The UK car industry is in trouble again, after a threat by Nissan to shift production from its Sunderland plant to the continent because of the strength of sterling.

    Also at stake are thousands of jobs with suppliers of the company.

    Nissan is under major pressure to restructure itself worldwide to become profitable again. The company is now controlled by Renault, which has begun a massive programme of plant closures in Japan.

    A number of other car firms - among them Toyota, Honda, BMW and General Motors (Vauxhall) - have already expressed their unease about the value of the pound, and warned that uncertainty about British membership of the euro could affect their investment decisions. '

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/812632.stm

    That was from 2000.

    Or this Nissan ?

    ' JAPAN'S Nissan Motor has issued its bluntest warning yet that Britain must commit itself to joining the euro or lose further investment in its Sunderland plant. 'If the signs are clear and reassuring, we will reinvest in Sunderland,' chief executive Carlos Ghosn said in an interview in today's French financial daily Les Echos. 'If there are too many risks we will go elsewhere,' he added. '

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1525130/Nissan-warns-UK-over-euro-entry.html

    That was from 2003.

    The Nissan that's going to be paid by the government to stay in the UK when we leave the single market.

  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited October 2016
    IanB2 said:

    Out of interest, what do people think would have happened in 1997 if the exhausted, unelectable, sleazy, Major government had been up against Corbyn and co?

    November 8th
    Our future awaits:
    image
  • Options

    "Nissan left the meeting stating that it was confident that the Government would ensure that Britain remained a competitive place to do business, ..... carmakers – and other large investors – have long since mastered the art of bidding for special deals, tax exemptions and the like when choosing where to locate their car plants.
    Countries compete for these and are willing to offer sweeteners to get the business; if the UK were to leave the single market as well as the EU, competition rules would no longer apply and thus some currently banned forms of inducement (currently classed as state aid) may become legal. So it is in the interest of companies to exaggerate any potential problems from Brexit, in the hope of greater inducements.....
    Second, Nissan is 43.4pc owned by Renault....Renault itself is 19.74pc owned by the French state, which is aghast at Brexit and of course also wants to attract investment to France. Ghosn is the boss of Nissan – but he is also simultaneously chairman and chief executive of Renault Group.
    I’m sure that Nissan is only, and rightly, acting in its commercial self-interest – but the broader political context cannot be ignored."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/this-is-the-right-way-to-help-carmakers-after-brexit/

    So the government might give subsidies to the employers of northern wwc.

    But weren't we told that that the northern wwc were being conned by the Boris / Hannan Tories ???

    I hoped nobody followed southam's advice and bought shares in 'betrayal'.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited October 2016
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Megan Kelly is experiencing karma from viewers. Her audience isn't happy and seem delighted that others are boycotting her too.

    snip

    That is a disturbing piece of television in very many ways. America is breaking apart.

    I watch about 15+ media clips a day across the stations - it's seriously OTT on both sides.

    The very strong feeling that the election is being stolen/fixed/rigged is huge. It's making Brexit Wars look tame. I saw a CNN clip earlier where they discussed Wikileaks and compared it a post-campaign book before the result. And then all five commentators waved away all the leaks as nothing and said it showed how centrist Hillary was/that's a good thing.

    I just laughed like a drain. I know it's one of the few free news services here on satellite TV - but anyone taking their word as gospel needs a slap. It's Guardian TV on steroids.
    The US 'news' networks are now completely unwatchable. They all take an absurdly partisan view, present "Fact Check" pieces that are no more than spin and there's way more heat being generated than light.

    As others have said, there is something seriously wrong with the USA at the moment, and the election is only making things worse. Much worse.
    The Fact Check stuff really is quite incredible. Both in what they decide to Fact Check and what they decide isn't worth it, and how they then make a "judgement call" on lots of things.

    And to add that the whole thing is almost completely devoid of any policy.

    Trump has one policy to build a wall, the empty slogan MAGA, something non-specific on tax cuts and repealing the healthcare bill. Clinton has something about packing the Supreme Court because Abortion and gay marriage, otherwise continuity Obama. That's it. Nothing on huge areas of policy and - more importantly - no-one challenging either campaign on what they're saying about policy.

    Everyone is just interested in 24/7 running commentary on the proverbial pair of monkeys throwing sh1t at each other, hardly the way to conduct the election in the world's largest economy.
    TBF, he's running on the following

    - more funding for police and veterans - and military
    - tax cuts for middle classes
    - maternity pay
    - extreme vetting of immigrants from war torn or rogue nations
    - border enforcement and deportation of illegals
    - religious freedom for Christians guaranteed
    - protection of gun ownership
    - breaking up education from Common Core union grip

    That's just off the top of my head. The caricature painted by media and much of PB is quite misleading.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Megan Kelly is experiencing karma from viewers. Her audience isn't happy and seem delighted that others are boycotting her too.

    Very Top Gear over Chris Evans.

    http://dcwhispers.com/wow-megyn-kelly-getting-pummeled-ratings-trump-supporters-boycott-program/#JXeCr5REAvMBPWZg.99

    taffys said:

    Cue handwaving

    That is a disturbing piece of television in very many ways. America is breaking apart.

    I watch about 15+ media clips a day across the stations - it's seriously OTT on both sides.

    The very strong feeling that the election is being stolen/fixed/rigged is huge. It's making Brexit Wars look tame. I saw a CNN clip earlier where they discussed Wikileaks and compared it a post-campaign book before the result. And then all five commentators waved away all the leaks as nothing and said it showed how centrist Hillary was/that's a good thing.

    I just laughed like a drain. I know it's one of the few free news services here on satellite TV - but anyone taking their word as gospel needs a slap. It's Guardian TV on steroids.
    The US 'news' networks are now completely unwatchable. They all take an absurdly partisan view, present "Fact Check" pieces that are no more than spin and there's way more heat being generated than light.

    As others have said, there is something seriously wrong with the USA at the moment, and the election is only making things worse. Much worse.
    The Fact Check stuff really is quite incredible. Both in what they decide to Fact Check and what they decide isn't worth it, and how they then make a "judgement call" on lots of things.
    And to add that the whole thing is almost completely devoid of any policy.

    Trump has one policy to build a wall, the empty slogan MAGA, something non-specific on tax cuts and repealing the healthcare bill. Clinton has something about packing the Supreme Court because Abortion and gay marriage, otherwise continuity Obama. That's it. Nothing on huge areas of policy and - more importantly - no-one challenging either campaign on what they're saying about policy.

    Everyone is just interested in 24/7 running commentary on the proverbial pair of monkeys throwing sh1t at each other, hardly the way to conduct the election in the world's largest economy.
    I have said this after both debates, I still have f##k all idea what Clinton's policies are. 3hrs of debates and not a sausage.
    Her biggest 'policy' is that she isn't Donald Trump. She hopes that's enough, we'll see on November 9th.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,919
    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone who missed it, Trump is going to bypass the media even more. I know his supporters have suggested he buys TV advertising time to do a direct broadcast.

    That's a biggie if it happens.

    "Trump to address nation in personal way to present his vision on how together we can bring back Am jobs & defend our country from terrorism https://t.co/rVw3KwbB1N

    Didn't Ross Perot do something similar in the Nineties?

  • Options

    So, no extra money for the NHS. Instead, money that could have been spent on the NHS will be spent on ensuring automakers won't leave the country because we are leaving the single market. Not quite what Boris & co, promised is it?

    Isn't this Nissan compensation deal exactly what I posted that Will Hutton had written the other week and I got flamed to bits by Leavers saying Hutton didn't know what the hell he was talking about.

    Essentially, the taxpayer will be paying Nissan not to quit. And having seen that, what do you think other CEOs of other companies are going to do? Money that could have been spent elsewhere will instead be spent on mitigating the negative effects of leaving the single market. Boris is Baldrick and I claim my £5. The Tories have abandoned any pretence to be a pro-capitalist, free market party. We no longer have one of those in the UK.

    This Nissan ?

    ' The UK car industry is in trouble again, after a threat by Nissan to shift production from its Sunderland plant to the continent because of the strength of sterling.

    Also at stake are thousands of jobs with suppliers of the company.

    Nissan is under major pressure to restructure itself worldwide to become profitable again. The company is now controlled by Renault, which has begun a massive programme of plant closures in Japan.

    A number of other car firms - among them Toyota, Honda, BMW and General Motors (Vauxhall) - have already expressed their unease about the value of the pound, and warned that uncertainty about British membership of the euro could affect their investment decisions. '

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/812632.stm

    That was from 2000.

    Or this Nissan ?

    ' JAPAN'S Nissan Motor has issued its bluntest warning yet that Britain must commit itself to joining the euro or lose further investment in its Sunderland plant. 'If the signs are clear and reassuring, we will reinvest in Sunderland,' chief executive Carlos Ghosn said in an interview in today's French financial daily Les Echos. 'If there are too many risks we will go elsewhere,' he added. '

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1525130/Nissan-warns-UK-over-euro-entry.html

    That was from 2003.

    The Nissan that's going to be paid by the government to stay in the UK when we leave the single market.

    Nissan will continue to be a big net tax contributor - that they will look to minimise that with grants and exemptions is what they've done ever since they first looked at investing in Britain.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,872

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 58m58 minutes ago
    Remoaner special
    http://tinyurl.com/j5dlygg
    (Matthew Parris - Project Fear mk2)

    Matthew has hit the panic button today! :open_mouth:
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Mr. Herdson, didn't Hitler order a 24 halt in the pursuit of fleeing Allied soldiers?

    From the army, yes, I believe it was something like that. Goering had persuaded him that the Luftwaffe could deal with mopping up the beaches.

    It wasn't a completely idiotic order. The Miracle of Dunkirk was just that - there was no way that so many men could have been evacuated without ideal conditions - and the German army had pushed on in their advance through France and the Low Countries to an extent that there was something to be said for briefly regrouping and consolidating supply lines. For that matter, 24 hours in the context of an 8-day evacuation was probably not critical. Even so, he should have left what were essentially tactical decisions to his generals on the ground (and in the air).
  • Options

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 58m58 minutes ago
    Remoaner special
    http://tinyurl.com/j5dlygg
    (Matthew Parris - Project Fear mk2)


    Doesn't change the Referendum decision. We're not going back, the past is in the past.

    Except to WWII. Repeatedly.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    "Dogs are being trained to parachute into danger zones in order to fight crime in South Africa.

    More specifically, the brave hounds parachute out of helicopters along with their trainers in a bid to tackle illegal poachers in the area.

    The team of German Shepherd and Belgian Malinois dogs are becoming specialists in tracking poachers hiding in the bush.

    http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/15/dogs-are-being-trained-to-parachute-out-of-planes-to-fight-crime-6193526/?ito=twitter
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just catching up on HIGNFY last night - can anyone explain why they opened the show with a scripted piece from the presenter saying that the pound was worth only $1.15? It's not been doing particularly well this week, but it's not been below $1.21.

    I think they were using the tourist rates that people actually get
    They mentioned tourist rates later in the same piece - and got the buy and sell rates confused when trying to illustrate that an airport forex agent had a usurious 35% spread on the £/€ rate.

    Would have expected them to have at least run the script by someone who understands these things before airing it!
    You do? I don't. The sanctimonious "comedy" shows prefer as few facts as possible.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 58m58 minutes ago
    Remoaner special
    http://tinyurl.com/j5dlygg
    (Matthew Parris - Project Fear mk2)


    Doesn't change the Referendum decision. We're not going back, the past is in the past.

    We'll see how long before the public starts to have second thoughts. I suspect by next Spring serious doubts will be spreading.
    Nah. By next Spring it will all have become "politics". The people had their say, they kicked arse, and will have moved on by then.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited October 2016
    Well quite

    "With less than four weeks to go before Election Day, Hillary Clinton seems to be thinking she can disappear and voters won’t notice.

    http://www.theamericanmirror.com/wheres-hillary-no-public-events-1019-debate/

    "Coming off the heels of two private fundraisers in California on Thursday, Clinton doesn’t have any public events scheduled between today and the final presidential debate on October 19.

    That’s five days.

    Neither leading Clinton schedule tracking website — HillarySpeeches.com and WillHillaryWin.com — list a single event for her, as of Friday morning.

    Meanwhile, chief surrogate Bill Clinton will be making two appearances in Ohio today. One in Delaware, and the other in Cincinnati, according to HillarySpeeches.com.
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited October 2016
    One lousy employer with misogynistic attitudes.
    :rage:
    "Two weeks ago a tribunal found the union was liable for 'sexist bullying' Sally Nailard had allegedly received from two Unite shop stewards. The 50-year-old former regional officer was based at Heathrow. Unite leader Len McCluskey became embroiled in the claim against his trade union for bullying and sexual harassment after former union official Ms Nailard accused the Unite general secretary of calling her a ‘scab’. Mr McCluskey was one of several union officials cited in Miss Nailard’s claim"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3839465/Unite-union-s-women-officers-say-ve-asked-wear-high-heels-wearing-stockings-pale-stale-male-meetings.html
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,115
    edited October 2016
    We're either about to see a mushroom shortage or production is being shifted to British suppliers:

    ' Ireland's mushroom industry provides a stark warning to the rest of the country's economy about the damage a sustained weakness in sterling could inflict on Irish exporters, the sector most vulnerable to the impact of Brexit.

    Mushroom growers rely on the UK for 80pc of sales and have been losing money since Britain's vote to quit the European Union in June sent sterling tumbling. It has now lost 19pc of its value against the euro, wiping out the Irish producers' profit margins.

    Five of Ireland's 60 mushroom farms have so far gone out of business since the referendum, including two this week. '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/irelands-mushroom-farmers-become-early-victims-of-brexit/

  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Two of the three eldest SCOTUS judges are on the liberal wing - Ginsburg and (I think) Breyer. If the Democrats gain the Senate at least one of them is certain to step down. As David says, that could lead to a liberal majority. If both go, the likelihood is that HRC will nominate one more centrist judge, as convention demands a level of balance. If the Democrats gain the House - unlikely, but possible - they will get the chance to undo the district boundaries the Republicans gerrymandered and will then gerrymander their own. The stakes are very big indeed.

    I think you're right, the Dems will nominate a centrist but it wasn't a courtesy Bush2 offered when he nominated Alito and Roberts? It always seems to be the Dems who are expected to give ground.

    Don't forget Obama has just offered them a Centrist and they have chosen to whine about illegitimacy and generally blow hard.
    Bush replaced two conservative judges with two conservative judges.
    Obama replaced two liberal judges with two liberal judges.

    Scalia was a conservative judge, which is why his replacement is contentious.
    Garland may not have been as reliably conservative as Scalia, but he was still of the right. He was a much better pick for them than what they will get if Hillary holds the senate. Ergo they've likely been outmanoeuvred.
    If Hillary does win and the Democrats take the Seante, it will be interesting to see whether or not Obama withdraws the nomination. If he doesn't, the lame-duck Senate would be mad not to endorse it; it will certainly be no worse for them than would would follow if they didn't.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Taniel ‏@Taniel 16h16 hours ago

    Oh my: Early voting turnout is up 59% in Northern Virginia, & just 5% in the rest of the state. http://www.vpap.org/visualizations/early-voting … h/t @LPDonovan
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,919

    "Nissan left the meeting stating that it was confident that the Government would ensure that Britain remained a competitive place to do business, ..... carmakers – and other large investors – have long since mastered the art of bidding for special deals, tax exemptions and the like when choosing where to locate their car plants.
    Countries compete for these and are willing to offer sweeteners to get the business; if the UK were to leave the single market as well as the EU, competition rules would no longer apply and thus some currently banned forms of inducement (currently classed as state aid) may become legal. So it is in the interest of companies to exaggerate any potential problems from Brexit, in the hope of greater inducements.....
    Second, Nissan is 43.4pc owned by Renault....Renault itself is 19.74pc owned by the French state, which is aghast at Brexit and of course also wants to attract investment to France. Ghosn is the boss of Nissan – but he is also simultaneously chairman and chief executive of Renault Group.
    I’m sure that Nissan is only, and rightly, acting in its commercial self-interest – but the broader political context cannot be ignored."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/this-is-the-right-way-to-help-carmakers-after-brexit/

    Thank you for the link. Reading it carefully gleans this:

    "...If it wanted to, the Government could slash tax further..."
    "..under a WTO-style trading relationship...the UK government would end up raising quite a lot of money..."

    So a grown man in the Telegraph is advocating slashing taxes in the teeth of a ginormous deficit & debt, and genuinely thinks money raised from tariffs is a gain instead of a cost.

    If he reflects Government thinking, the pound is so f*****d it's not true.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    And LA Times is back to Trump lead

    LA Times: Trump Back in the Lead! https://t.co/2nntS0Yl95
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,724
    nunu said:

    Taniel ‏@Taniel 16h16 hours ago

    Oh my: Early voting turnout is up 59% in Northern Virginia, & just 5% in the rest of the state. http://www.vpap.org/visualizations/early-voting … h/t @LPDonovan

    What does that mean (in terms of the likely result)?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    This Nissan ?

    ' The UK car industry is in trouble again, after a threat by Nissan to shift production from its Sunderland plant to the continent because of the strength of sterling.

    Also at stake are thousands of jobs with suppliers of the company.

    Nissan is under major pressure to restructure itself worldwide to become profitable again. The company is now controlled by Renault, which has begun a massive programme of plant closures in Japan.

    A number of other car firms - among them Toyota, Honda, BMW and General Motors (Vauxhall) - have already expressed their unease about the value of the pound, and warned that uncertainty about British membership of the euro could affect their investment decisions. '

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/812632.stm

    That was from 2000.

    Or this Nissan ?

    ' JAPAN'S Nissan Motor has issued its bluntest warning yet that Britain must commit itself to joining the euro or lose further investment in its Sunderland plant. 'If the signs are clear and reassuring, we will reinvest in Sunderland,' chief executive Carlos Ghosn said in an interview in today's French financial daily Les Echos. 'If there are too many risks we will go elsewhere,' he added. '

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1525130/Nissan-warns-UK-over-euro-entry.html

    That was from 2003.

    The Nissan that's going to be paid by the government to stay in the UK when we leave the single market.
    Nissan will continue to be a big net tax contributor - that they will look to minimise that with grants and exemptions is what they've done ever since they first looked at investing in Britain.
    Hopefully the government will help all businesses with cuts to corporation tax and employer NI - the 'Tax on Jobs', rather than giving in to certain companies and sectors. The pound falling will also help, assuming it stays in the $1.25 range.

    The govt should also be singing from the rooftops about Britain being open for business, and I've said before that we should get our trade minister a plane (Airbus, painted in BA colours - and a new Royal Yacht!) and keep it going around the world. BUT! There's always a but, we need to get on with LHR expansion, HS2 and other large projects that actually demonstrate the commitment to being open for business.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Herdson, didn't Hitler order a 24 halt in the pursuit of fleeing Allied soldiers?

    From the army, yes, I believe it was something like that. Goering had persuaded him that the Luftwaffe could deal with mopping up the beaches.

    It wasn't a completely idiotic order. The Miracle of Dunkirk was just that - there was no way that so many men could have been evacuated without ideal conditions - and the German army had pushed on in their advance through France and the Low Countries to an extent that there was something to be said for briefly regrouping and consolidating supply lines. For that matter, 24 hours in the context of an 8-day evacuation was probably not critical. Even so, he should have left what were essentially tactical decisions to his generals on the ground (and in the air).
    Quite so, but there were two groups of generals in the German command chain. One set very much more cautious than the other. The halt command came about because advice from generals.
  • Options
    New French opinion poll, but simply confirms the status quo.

    Juppé would lead Le Pen, 34/28 (without Macron) or trail 27/26 (with Macron) both leading to an easy victory in the second round.

    Sarkozy would edge through in second, although Macron would fancy his chances (he trails Sarkozy 18/15 for second).

    Juppé has been cut from evens to 5/6 which I still think represents value.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    This is pretty typical stuff re Trump messaging, this really isn't an election anymore.

    POWERFUL message to America from Jon Voight.
    Please RT! https://t.co/fy8qgD1qXW

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Megan Kelly is experiencing karma from viewers. Her audience isn't happy and seem delighted that others are boycotting her too.

    Very Top Gear over Chris Evans.

    http://dcwhispers.com/wow-megyn-kelly-getting-pummeled-ratings-trump-supporters-boycott-program/#JXeCr5REAvMBPWZg.99

    taffys said:

    Cue handwaving

    That is a disturbing piece of television in very many ways. America is breaking apart.

    I watch about 15+ media clips a day across the stations - it's seriously OTT on both sides.

    The very strong feeling that the election is being stolen/fixed/rigged is huge. It's making Brexit Wars look tame. I saw a CNN clip earlier where they discussed Wikileaks and compared it a post-campaign book before the result. And then all five commentators waved away all the leaks as nothing and said it showed how centrist Hillary was/that's a good thing.

    I just laughed like a drain. I know it's one of the few free news services here on satellite TV - but anyone taking their word as gospel needs a slap. It's Guardian TV on steroids.
    The US 'news' networks are now completely unwatchable. They all take an absurdly partisan view, present "Fact Check" pieces that are no more than spin and there's way more heat being generated than light.

    As others have said, there is something seriously wrong with the USA at the moment, and the election is only making things worse. Much worse.
    The Fact Check stuff really is quite incredible. Both in what they decide to Fact Check and what they decide isn't worth it, and how they then make a "judgement call" on lots of things.
    And to add that the whole thing is almost completely devoid of any policy.

    Trump has one policy to build a wall, the empty slogan MAGA, something non-specific on tax cuts and repealing the healthcare bill. Clinton has something about packing the Supreme Court because Abortion and gay marriage, otherwise continuity Obama. That's it. Nothing on huge areas of policy and - more importantly - no-one challenging either campaign on what they're saying about policy.

    Everyone is just interested in 24/7 running commentary on the proverbial pair of monkeys throwing sh1t at each other, hardly the way to conduct the election in the world's largest economy.

    Quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat

    :D
  • Options

    We're either about to see a mushroom shortage of production is being shifted to British suppliers:...........
    Mushroom growers rely on the UK for 80pc of sales and have been losing money since Britain's vote to quit the European Union in June sent sterling tumbling. It has now lost 19pc of its value against the euro, wiping out the Irish producers' profit margins.
    Five of Ireland's 60 mushroom farms have so far gone out of business since the referendum, including two this week. '
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/irelands-mushroom-farmers-become-early-victims-of-brexit/

    Sounds dramatic but..... a typical Project Fear mk2 piece of inflated nonsense.
    Exports from Eire to UK = £1.2bn a week. Mushrooms export = £0.002bn a week or 0.2%. Employees in mushrooms that have probably lost jobs circa 1/12th approx 30 people.
    In my experience most mushroom workers in Eire are EU immigrants, this is a very low wage business.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,872
    nunu said:

    Taniel ‏@Taniel 16h16 hours ago

    Oh my: Early voting turnout is up 59% in Northern Virginia, & just 5% in the rest of the state. http://www.vpap.org/visualizations/early-voting … h/t @LPDonovan

    Which means? :)
  • Options

    "Nissan left the meeting stating that it was confident that the Government would ensure that Britain remained a competitive place to do business, ..... carmakers – and other large investors – have long since mastered the art of bidding for special deals, tax exemptions and the like when choosing where to locate their car plants.
    Countries compete for these and are willing to offer sweeteners to get the business; if the UK were to leave the single market as well as the EU, competition rules would no longer apply and thus some currently banned forms of inducement (currently classed as state aid) may become legal. So it is in the interest of companies to exaggerate any potential problems from Brexit, in the hope of greater inducements.....
    Second, Nissan is 43.4pc owned by Renault....Renault itself is 19.74pc owned by the French state, which is aghast at Brexit and of course also wants to attract investment to France. Ghosn is the boss of Nissan – but he is also simultaneously chairman and chief executive of Renault Group.
    I’m sure that Nissan is only, and rightly, acting in its commercial self-interest – but the broader political context cannot be ignored."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/this-is-the-right-way-to-help-carmakers-after-brexit/

    Nissan might have to accept a worst case 10% tariff on export of cars to the rest of the EU.

    But the pouind sterling has already devalued by 15% against the euro since the referendum.

    So Nissan is quids in without any government subsidy.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,866

    We're either about to see a mushroom shortage of production is being shifted to British suppliers:...........
    Mushroom growers rely on the UK for 80pc of sales and have been losing money since Britain's vote to quit the European Union in June sent sterling tumbling. It has now lost 19pc of its value against the euro, wiping out the Irish producers' profit margins.
    Five of Ireland's 60 mushroom farms have so far gone out of business since the referendum, including two this week. '
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/irelands-mushroom-farmers-become-early-victims-of-brexit/

    Sounds dramatic but..... a typical Project Fear mk2 piece of inflated nonsense.
    Exports from Eire to UK = £1.2bn a week. Mushrooms export = £0.002bn a week or 0.2%. Employees in mushrooms that have probably lost jobs circa 1/12th approx 30 people.
    In my experience most mushroom workers in Eire are EU immigrants, this is a very low wage business.
    In that classic journal of Project Fear, the Telegraph.
  • Options

    Mr. Herdson, didn't Hitler order a 24 halt in the pursuit of fleeing Allied soldiers?

    From the army, yes, I believe it was something like that. Goering had persuaded him that the Luftwaffe could deal with mopping up the beaches.

    It wasn't a completely idiotic order. The Miracle of Dunkirk was just that - there was no way that so many men could have been evacuated without ideal conditions - and the German army had pushed on in their advance through France and the Low Countries to an extent that there was something to be said for briefly regrouping and consolidating supply lines. For that matter, 24 hours in the context of an 8-day evacuation was probably not critical. Even so, he should have left what were essentially tactical decisions to his generals on the ground (and in the air).
    Quite so, but there were two groups of generals in the German command chain. One set very much more cautious than the other. The halt command came about because advice from generals.
    The other recently emerging factor is that the German Army were all doped to the hilt with amphetamines (pervitin) so they could advance so fast without stopping to sleep etc. but that only works for a while before it catches up with you big time.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    We're either about to see a mushroom shortage or production is being shifted to British suppliers:

    ' Ireland's mushroom industry provides a stark warning to the rest of the country's economy about the damage a sustained weakness in sterling could inflict on Irish exporters, the sector most vulnerable to the impact of Brexit.

    Mushroom growers rely on the UK for 80pc of sales and have been losing money since Britain's vote to quit the European Union in June sent sterling tumbling. It has now lost 19pc of its value against the euro, wiping out the Irish producers' profit margins.

    Five of Ireland's 60 mushroom farms have so far gone out of business since the referendum, including two this week. '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/irelands-mushroom-farmers-become-early-victims-of-brexit/

    Hmmm, interesting. There is a mushroom farm a couple of miles to the West of me, I shall make some enquiries to see if they are planning to increase production.

    That said quite why Ireland had such a big gri on the growing of mushrooms I don't know.
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    GIN1138 said:

    nunu said:

    Taniel ‏@Taniel 16h16 hours ago

    Oh my: Early voting turnout is up 59% in Northern Virginia, & just 5% in the rest of the state. http://www.vpap.org/visualizations/early-voting … h/t @LPDonovan

    Which means? :)
    Much the same as early voting up far more in Hampstead than the rest of Greater London
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    We're either about to see a mushroom shortage or production is being shifted to British suppliers:

    ' Ireland's mushroom industry provides a stark warning to the rest of the country's economy about the damage a sustained weakness in sterling could inflict on Irish exporters, the sector most vulnerable to the impact of Brexit.

    Mushroom growers rely on the UK for 80pc of sales and have been losing money since Britain's vote to quit the European Union in June sent sterling tumbling. It has now lost 19pc of its value against the euro, wiping out the Irish producers' profit margins.

    Five of Ireland's 60 mushroom farms have so far gone out of business since the referendum, including two this week. '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/irelands-mushroom-farmers-become-early-victims-of-brexit/

    Or, to turn it around, British mushroom farms are doing well against foreign imports, due to the devaluation of the pound. This should lead over time to more jobs in Britain as we become more self-sustainable in food.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,136
    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone who missed it, Trump is going to bypass the media even more. I know his supporters have suggested he buys TV advertising time to do a direct broadcast.

    That's a biggie if it happens.

    Probably the best strategy will be to wait for the killer wikileaks revelation, so that he can discuss that on his direct broadcast. :-)
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,866
    What fascinating times we live in.
    The polls show that sentiment is fixed 52/48, whatever has happened to date.

    I wonder if a textual analysis of newspaper commentary would show any shifts, particularly since the fall in the pound.
  • Options

    "Nissan left the meeting stating that it was confident that the Government would ensure that Britain remained a competitive place to do business, ..... carmakers – and other large investors – have long since mastered the art of bidding for special deals, tax exemptions and the like when choosing where to locate their car plants.
    Countries compete for these and are willing to offer sweeteners to get the business; if the UK were to leave the single market as well as the EU, competition rules would no longer apply and thus some currently banned forms of inducement (currently classed as state aid) may become legal. So it is in the interest of companies to exaggerate any potential problems from Brexit, in the hope of greater inducements.....
    Second, Nissan is 43.4pc owned by Renault....Renault itself is 19.74pc owned by the French state, which is aghast at Brexit and of course also wants to attract investment to France. Ghosn is the boss of Nissan – but he is also simultaneously chairman and chief executive of Renault Group.
    I’m sure that Nissan is only, and rightly, acting in its commercial self-interest – but the broader political context cannot be ignored."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/this-is-the-right-way-to-help-carmakers-after-brexit/

    Nissan might have to accept a worst case 10% tariff on export of cars to the rest of the EU.

    But the pouind sterling has already devalued by 15% against the euro since the referendum.

    So Nissan is quids in without any government subsidy.
    Yes. The starting point would be to "show us the numbers". Nissan Sunderland is for decades been the top (or near the top) most efficient car factory in Europe. I recall it was at the top 25+ years ago when I bought one from them.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Herdson, didn't Hitler order a 24 halt in the pursuit of fleeing Allied soldiers?

    From the army, yes, I believe it was something like that. Goering had persuaded him that the Luftwaffe could deal with mopping up the beaches.

    It wasn't a completely idiotic order. The Miracle of Dunkirk was just that - there was no way that so many men could have been evacuated without ideal conditions - and the German army had pushed on in their advance through France and the Low Countries to an extent that there was something to be said for briefly regrouping and consolidating supply lines. For that matter, 24 hours in the context of an 8-day evacuation was probably not critical. Even so, he should have left what were essentially tactical decisions to his generals on the ground (and in the air).
    Quite so, but there were two groups of generals in the German command chain. One set very much more cautious than the other. The halt command came about because advice from generals.
    The other recently emerging factor is that the German Army were all doped to the hilt with amphetamines (pervitin) so they could advance so fast without stopping to sleep etc. but that only works for a while before it catches up with you big time.
    That is a new one on me and sounds very unlikely, given the numbers involved. Do you have a source, please?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,919

    I wonder if a textual analysis of newspaper commentary would show any shifts, particularly since the fall in the pound...

    If I had world enough, and time... :(

  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    This is probably my favourite tweet of the year - guess who's it's about

    Mike Cernovich
    You were a groupie who slept your way into marrying a beta male band manager whose top client was a pedophile. Do not address me ever again. https://t.co/rtbXh1nMCC
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    However at battlefield level it was considered the German setup was superior.



    I don't think it was inevitable that the allies would have won the war.
    There was a chapter in the book about that, I think, but it's a while since i have read it. I think the conclusion was that Britain could have fought on from the empire and wait for the Americans and Russians,

    Anyhow it is a good book. - clear well-written and thoughtful analysis. It's quite high level so glosses over a lot of detail, but that also makes its conclusions easier to follow. Very good reviews on Amazon.

    Edit/ I think the inevitability arises from the significant and growing flaws on the German side, which sooner or later would lead to downfall (and, indeed, Downfall).

    Besides, as all PB'ers know, a coalition is always best.... ;-)
    The only possible counter factual which might have led to a German victory would have been our losing the Battle of Britain, I think.
    Hitler's manic philosophy would have meant the invasion of Russia come what may, but the air battle was a close enough run thing that better German tactics could conceivably have won it, and at that stage of the war a British surrender without a land invasion would not have been impossible.
    That is the only way I can see that he might have had the resources available - particularly air power - to prevent Barbarossa being a disaster.
    Unlikely, but not wholly impossible.
    Had we lost the Battle of Britain, they could well have won that argument. Victory did much to cement Churchill's position; defeat might have toppled him.
    Possible, rather than probable, but I think it the only way Hitler might have won his lunatic race war.
    Goering's ineptitude lost it rather than UK just winning it. He snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
    More at Dunkirk than the Battle of Britain. In the latter, I'm not sure what the Germans could have done to make much difference bar bomb the radar stations - but their failure there was more of intelligence than of strategy.
    Yes, they did not make a good job of it given the superiority they had in numbers , but given how poor their leaders were versus RAF , they made a real hash of it as opposed to RAF who excelled.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927
    Chris said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone who missed it, Trump is going to bypass the media even more. I know his supporters have suggested he buys TV advertising time to do a direct broadcast.

    That's a biggie if it happens.

    Probably the best strategy will be to wait for the killer wikileaks revelation, so that he can discuss that on his direct broadcast. :-)
    Short of Hillary actually being arrested, I can't see what Wikileaks can 'reveal' that won't be airily dismissed by the campaign as Russian-funded conspiracy theory, and ignored completely by most of the broadcast media.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    Miss Lass, the problem with the economy line for the SNP is that they want to leave a union with which they conduct 60% of trade for one with which they conduct 15% of trade.

    Not only that, they want to leave a Union that contributes to Scotland's public services and join a Union which will expect substantial contributions from Scotland...
    Sturgeon's biggest problem is that she's bluffing - and May knows it.
    Don't be stupid, she certainly is not and if she was just bluffing her days are numbered. If there is no deal for Scotland and she does not call a referendum she is doomed. It will happen.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927
    PlatoSaid said:

    This is probably my favourite tweet of the year - guess who's it's about

    Mike Cernovich
    You were a groupie who slept your way into marrying a beta male band manager whose top client was a pedophile. Do not address me ever again. https://t.co/rtbXh1nMCC

    Former MP for Corby?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,919
    Sandpit said:

    We're either about to see a mushroom shortage or production is being shifted to British suppliers:

    ' Ireland's mushroom industry provides a stark warning to the rest of the country's economy about the damage a sustained weakness in sterling could inflict on Irish exporters, the sector most vulnerable to the impact of Brexit.

    Mushroom growers rely on the UK for 80pc of sales and have been losing money since Britain's vote to quit the European Union in June sent sterling tumbling. It has now lost 19pc of its value against the euro, wiping out the Irish producers' profit margins.

    Five of Ireland's 60 mushroom farms have so far gone out of business since the referendum, including two this week. '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/irelands-mushroom-farmers-become-early-victims-of-brexit/

    Or, to turn it around, British mushroom farms are doing well against foreign imports, due to the devaluation of the pound. This should lead over time to more jobs in Britain as we become more self-sustainable in food.
    So we're moving from an economy based on high-tech engineering and financial services, to an agrarian economy.

    Thinks.

    Backs away nervously from the crazy people...
  • Options
    Ched Evans rape case 'sets us back 30 years'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37666228

    Forgot NeverTrump...more like NeverInnocent.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    This is probably my favourite tweet of the year - guess who's it's about

    Mike Cernovich
    You were a groupie who slept your way into marrying a beta male band manager whose top client was a pedophile. Do not address me ever again. https://t.co/rtbXh1nMCC

    Former MP for Corby?
    Menction someone?
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    "Nissan left the meeting stating that it was confident that the Government would ensure that Britain remained a competitive place to do business, ..... carmakers – and other large investors – have long since mastered the art of bidding for special deals, tax exemptions and the like when choosing where to locate their car plants.
    Countries compete for these and are willing to offer sweeteners to get the business; if the UK were to leave the single market as well as the EU, competition rules would no longer apply and thus some currently banned forms of inducement (currently classed as state aid) may become legal. So it is in the interest of companies to exaggerate any potential problems from Brexit, in the hope of greater inducements.....
    Second, Nissan is 43.4pc owned by Renault....Renault itself is 19.74pc owned by the French state, which is aghast at Brexit and of course also wants to attract investment to France. Ghosn is the boss of Nissan – but he is also simultaneously chairman and chief executive of Renault Group.
    I’m sure that Nissan is only, and rightly, acting in its commercial self-interest – but the broader political context cannot be ignored."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/this-is-the-right-way-to-help-carmakers-after-brexit/

    Nissan might have to accept a worst case 10% tariff on export of cars to the rest of the EU.

    But the pouind sterling has already devalued by 15% against the euro since the referendum.

    So Nissan is quids in without any government subsidy.
    Given that one of Honda's best selling cars in the UK, the magnificent Jazz, is, and always has been, subject to 10% tariffs I would suggest that Nissan could be told to feck off.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,919

    Mr. Herdson, didn't Hitler order a 24 halt in the pursuit of fleeing Allied soldiers?

    From the army, yes, I believe it was something like that. Goering had persuaded him that the Luftwaffe could deal with mopping up the beaches.

    It wasn't a completely idiotic order. The Miracle of Dunkirk was just that - there was no way that so many men could have been evacuated without ideal conditions - and the German army had pushed on in their advance through France and the Low Countries to an extent that there was something to be said for briefly regrouping and consolidating supply lines. For that matter, 24 hours in the context of an 8-day evacuation was probably not critical. Even so, he should have left what were essentially tactical decisions to his generals on the ground (and in the air).
    Quite so, but there were two groups of generals in the German command chain. One set very much more cautious than the other. The halt command came about because advice from generals.
    The other recently emerging factor is that the German Army were all doped to the hilt with amphetamines (pervitin) so they could advance so fast without stopping to sleep etc. but that only works for a while before it catches up with you big time.
    That is a new one on me and sounds very unlikely, given the numbers involved. Do you have a source, please?
    There was an article in the Daily Heil this week. I've on a military history kick this summer and it seemed quite plausible.
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited October 2016

    Mr. Herdson, didn't Hitler order a 24 halt in the pursuit of fleeing Allied soldiers?

    From the army, yes, I believe it was something like that. Goering had persuaded him that the Luftwaffe could deal with mopping up the beaches.

    It wasn't a completely idiotic order. The Miracle of Dunkirk was just that - there was no way that so many men could have been evacuated without ideal conditions - and the German army had pushed on in their advance through France and the Low Countries to an extent that there was something to be said for briefly regrouping and consolidating supply lines. For that matter, 24 hours in the context of an 8-day evacuation was probably not critical. Even so, he should have left what were essentially tactical decisions to his generals on the ground (and in the air).
    Quite so, but there were two groups of generals in the German command chain. One set very much more cautious than the other. The halt command came about because advice from generals.
    The other recently emerging factor is that the German Army were all doped to the hilt with amphetamines (pervitin) so they could advance so fast without stopping to sleep etc. but that only works for a while before it catches up with you big time.
    That is a new one on me and sounds very unlikely, given the numbers involved. Do you have a source, please?
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/25/blitzed-norman-ohler-adolf-hitler-nazi-drug-abuse-interview

    "In 1940, as plans were made to invade France through the Ardennes mountains, a “stimulant decree” was sent out to army doctors, recommending that soldiers take one tablet per day, two at night in short sequence, and another one or two tablets after two or three hours if necessary. The Wehrmacht ordered 35m tablets for the army and Luftwaffe, and the Temmler factory increased production...

    ...the invasion of France was made possible by the drugs. No drugs, no invasion. When Hitler heard about the plan to invade through Ardennes, he loved it [the allies were massed in northern Belgium]. But the high command said: it’s not possible, at night we have to rest, and they [the allies] will retreat and we will be stuck in the mountains. But then the stimulant decree was released, and that enabled them to stay awake for three days and three nights. Rommel [who then led one of the panzer divisions] and all those tank commanders were high – and without the tanks, they certainly wouldn’t have won.”
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,866
    edited October 2016
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    We're either about to see a mushroom shortage or production is being shifted to British suppliers:

    ' Ireland's mushroom industry provides a stark warning to the rest of the country's economy about the damage a sustained weakness in sterling could inflict on Irish exporters, the sector most vulnerable to the impact of Brexit.

    Mushroom growers rely on the UK for 80pc of sales and have been losing money since Britain's vote to quit the European Union in June sent sterling tumbling. It has now lost 19pc of its value against the euro, wiping out the Irish producers' profit margins.

    Five of Ireland's 60 mushroom farms have so far gone out of business since the referendum, including two this week. '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/irelands-mushroom-farmers-become-early-victims-of-brexit/

    Or, to turn it around, British mushroom farms are doing well against foreign imports, due to the devaluation of the pound. This should lead over time to more jobs in Britain as we become more self-sustainable in food.
    So we're moving from an economy based on high-tech engineering and financial services, to an agrarian economy.

    Thinks.

    Backs away nervously from the crazy people...
    That Brexit industrial strategy in full: Mushrooms, jam, and bottled air.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone who missed it, Trump is going to bypass the media even more. I know his supporters have suggested he buys TV advertising time to do a direct broadcast.

    That's a biggie if it happens.

    Probably the best strategy will be to wait for the killer wikileaks revelation, so that he can discuss that on his direct broadcast. :-)
    Short of Hillary actually being arrested, I can't see what Wikileaks can 'reveal' that won't be airily dismissed by the campaign as Russian-funded conspiracy theory, and ignored completely by most of the broadcast media.
    They've already implied Trump is a paedo wannabe - it's insane uber smearing with no evidence. And stuff from 35yrs ago, or 12yrs ago with frankly ugly birds whilst his wife is hot - and all long term Clinton fans?

    Anyone with a speck of IQ can see what's going on.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    GIN1138 said:

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 58m58 minutes ago
    Remoaner special
    http://tinyurl.com/j5dlygg
    (Matthew Parris - Project Fear mk2)

    Matthew has hit the panic button today! :open_mouth:
    Morning GIN, or should I say afternoon now.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Mr. Herdson, didn't Hitler order a 24 halt in the pursuit of fleeing Allied soldiers?

    From the army, yes, I believe it was something like that. Goering had persuaded him that the Luftwaffe could deal with mopping up the beaches.

    It wasn't a completely idiotic order. The Miracle of Dunkirk was just that - there was no way that so many men could have been evacuated without ideal conditions - and the German army had pushed on in their advance through France and the Low Countries to an extent that there was something to be said for briefly regrouping and consolidating supply lines. For that matter, 24 hours in the context of an 8-day evacuation was probably not critical. Even so, he should have left what were essentially tactical decisions to his generals on the ground (and in the air).
    Quite so, but there were two groups of generals in the German command chain. One set very much more cautious than the other. The halt command came about because advice from generals.
    The other recently emerging factor is that the German Army were all doped to the hilt with amphetamines (pervitin) so they could advance so fast without stopping to sleep etc. but that only works for a while before it catches up with you big time.
    That is a new one on me and sounds very unlikely, given the numbers involved. Do you have a source, please?
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/25/blitzed-norman-ohler-adolf-hitler-nazi-drug-abuse-interview
    I believe the latest issue of nature has an article highly sceptical of the book
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    We're either about to see a mushroom shortage or production is being shifted to British suppliers:

    ' Ireland's mushroom industry provides a stark warning to the rest of the country's economy about the damage a sustained weakness in sterling could inflict on Irish exporters, the sector most vulnerable to the impact of Brexit.

    Mushroom growers rely on the UK for 80pc of sales and have been losing money since Britain's vote to quit the European Union in June sent sterling tumbling. It has now lost 19pc of its value against the euro, wiping out the Irish producers' profit margins.

    Five of Ireland's 60 mushroom farms have so far gone out of business since the referendum, including two this week. '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/irelands-mushroom-farmers-become-early-victims-of-brexit/

    Or, to turn it around, British mushroom farms are doing well against foreign imports, due to the devaluation of the pound. This should lead over time to more jobs in Britain as we become more self-sustainable in food.
    So we're moving from an economy based on high-tech engineering and financial services, to an agrarian economy.

    Thinks.

    Backs away nervously from the crazy people...
    Still plenty of high-tech engineering around. McLaren have doubled production this year and will be over the moon that their almost entirely British cars just got considerably cheaper than the Italian competition in the dollar-priced key markets of US, China and Middle East. I got to drive one the other week - bloody hell they are fast!
  • Options

    We're either about to see a mushroom shortage or production is being shifted to British suppliers:

    ' Ireland's mushroom industry provides a stark warning to the rest of the country's economy about the damage a sustained weakness in sterling could inflict on Irish exporters, the sector most vulnerable to the impact of Brexit.

    Mushroom growers rely on the UK for 80pc of sales and have been losing money since Britain's vote to quit the European Union in June sent sterling tumbling. It has now lost 19pc of its value against the euro, wiping out the Irish producers' profit margins.

    Five of Ireland's 60 mushroom farms have so far gone out of business since the referendum, including two this week. '

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/14/irelands-mushroom-farmers-become-early-victims-of-brexit/

    Hmmm, interesting. There is a mushroom farm a couple of miles to the West of me, I shall make some enquiries to see if they are planning to increase production.

    That said quite why Ireland had such a big gri on the growing of mushrooms I don't know.
    Farmland unused for much effective production. CAP subsidies guarantee min income as long as use is made and ability to bring in EU cheap workers . Add in the empty housing in parts of rural Eire and the circumstances worked in some areas. That said university areas such as Dublin have major problems with cost of accomodation. Eire people in Dublin are allowed Euro 10,000 a year from housing overseas students before tax is due!
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,136
    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone who missed it, Trump is going to bypass the media even more. I know his supporters have suggested he buys TV advertising time to do a direct broadcast.

    That's a biggie if it happens.

    Probably the best strategy will be to wait for the killer wikileaks revelation, so that he can discuss that on his direct broadcast. :-)
    Short of Hillary actually being arrested, I can't see what Wikileaks can 'reveal' that won't be airily dismissed by the campaign as Russian-funded conspiracy theory, and ignored completely by most of the broadcast media.
    But they promised!

    I'm really warming to this idea of a TV Trumpathon, though. I'm picturing the opening with a chorus line of scantily clad girls, and Trump looking on appreciatively. Then he turns to the camera and smiles:
    "Now those are what I call nice girls! Jessica Leeds? Give me a break!"

    Soon get those ratings on the move ...
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,919

    That Brexit industrial strategy in full: Mushrooms, jam, and bottled air.

    If I understand the mushroom point correctly, Ireland gets the financial services sector and we get the mushroom farming sector. Lucky us...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    This is probably my favourite tweet of the year - guess who's it's about

    Mike Cernovich
    You were a groupie who slept your way into marrying a beta male band manager whose top client was a pedophile. Do not address me ever again. https://t.co/rtbXh1nMCC

    Former MP for Corby?
    Menction someone?
    Someone who's way out of her depth trying to be an American 'Opinion Former' with a dodgy fake accent.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited October 2016
    And another one not following the Hillary script

    Former 'Black Men for Bernie' leader now backing Trump | https://t.co/kJ9J24Ns1q


    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/10/14/former-black-men-for-bernie-leader-now-backing-trump.html

    Bruce Carter, who led "Black Men for Bernie," told FoxNews.com he had a change of heart after he traveled to urban communities and saw the levels of poverty in Democrat-controlled areas of the country.

    “Once I got involved, I realized that the Democratic Party was operating as if they own the country, and that was a major turn off for me,” Carter said. “I didn’t want to represent a party that saw its people in that way.”

    Carter, from Texas, has since formed “Trump for Urban Communities” – a grassroots organization he says is reaching out to black voters in big cities from Jacksonville, Fla., to Philadelphia, to Charlotte, N.C., seeking to convince first-time voters, working families and others to vote Republican in November.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    viewcode said:

    Mr. Herdson, didn't Hitler order a 24 halt in the pursuit of fleeing Allied soldiers?

    From the army, yes, I believe it was something like that. Goering had persuaded him that the Luftwaffe could deal with mopping up the beaches.

    It wasn't a completely idiotic order. The Miracle of Dunkirk was just that - there was no way that so many men could have been evacuated without ideal conditions - and the German army had pushed on in their advance through France and the Low Countries to an extent that there was something to be said for briefly regrouping and consolidating supply lines. For that matter, 24 hours in the context of an 8-day evacuation was probably not critical. Even so, he should have left what were essentially tactical decisions to his generals on the ground (and in the air).
    Quite so, but there were two groups of generals in the German command chain. One set very much more cautious than the other. The halt command came about because advice from generals.
    The other recently emerging factor is that the German Army were all doped to the hilt with amphetamines (pervitin) so they could advance so fast without stopping to sleep etc. but that only works for a while before it catches up with you big time.
    That is a new one on me and sounds very unlikely, given the numbers involved. Do you have a source, please?
    There was an article in the Daily Heil this week. I've on a military history kick this summer and it seemed quite plausible.
    Except, despite having read extensively on the campaign, I have never come across one single memoir that mentions it. However, I shall take a butcher's at the source.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,136
    PlatoSaid said:

    12yrs ago with frankly ugly birds whilst his wife is hot

    I thought Trump made that point very well himself. And if it was inspired by Oscar Wilde's famous comment in the witness box, as it appeared to be, it demonstrated a lot more historical and cultural awareness than he's usually credited with.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,872
    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 58m58 minutes ago
    Remoaner special
    http://tinyurl.com/j5dlygg
    (Matthew Parris - Project Fear mk2)

    Matthew has hit the panic button today! :open_mouth:
    Morning GIN, or should I say afternoon now.
    Afternoon Malc! :smiley:
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927
    edited October 2016
    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone who missed it, Trump is going to bypass the media even more. I know his supporters have suggested he buys TV advertising time to do a direct broadcast.

    That's a biggie if it happens.

    Probably the best strategy will be to wait for the killer wikileaks revelation, so that he can discuss that on his direct broadcast. :-)
    Short of Hillary actually being arrested, I can't see what Wikileaks can 'reveal' that won't be airily dismissed by the campaign as Russian-funded conspiracy theory, and ignored completely by most of the broadcast media.
    But they promised!

    I'm really warming to this idea of a TV Trumpathon, though. I'm picturing the opening with a chorus line of scantily clad girls, and Trump looking on appreciatively. Then he turns to the camera and smiles:
    "Now those are what I call nice girls! Jessica Leeds? Give me a break!"

    Soon get those ratings on the move ...
    LOL, I guess the two of them have taken everything to the absurd and then some, there's nothing I'd put past either of them doing if they thought there were a few votes in it. My American friends don't know whether to laugh or cry at the whole thing!
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,919

    viewcode said:

    Mr. Herdson, didn't Hitler order a 24 halt in the pursuit of fleeing Allied soldiers?

    From the army, yes, I believe it was something like that. Goering had persuaded him that the Luftwaffe could deal with mopping up the beaches.

    It wasn't a completely idiotic order. The Miracle of Dunkirk was just that - there was no way that so many men could have been evacuated without ideal conditions - and the German army had pushed on in their advance through France and the Low Countries to an extent that there was something to be said for briefly regrouping and consolidating supply lines. For that matter, 24 hours in the context of an 8-day evacuation was probably not critical. Even so, he should have left what were essentially tactical decisions to his generals on the ground (and in the air).
    Quite so, but there were two groups of generals in the German command chain. One set very much more cautious than the other. The halt command came about because advice from generals.
    The other recently emerging factor is that the German Army were all doped to the hilt with amphetamines (pervitin) so they could advance so fast without stopping to sleep etc. but that only works for a while before it catches up with you big time.
    That is a new one on me and sounds very unlikely, given the numbers involved. Do you have a source, please?
    There was an article in the Daily Heil this week. I've on a military history kick this summer and it seemed quite plausible.
    Except, despite having read extensively on the campaign, I have never come across one single memoir that mentions it. However, I shall take a butcher's at the source.
    Let me know if I'm wrong, please.
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    viewcode said:

    That Brexit industrial strategy in full: Mushrooms, jam, and bottled air.

    If I understand the mushroom point correctly, Ireland gets the financial services sector and we get the mushroom farming sector. Lucky us...
    Real point is that it is a tiny marginal business existing on subsidies and very cheap Labour. A few people have made a buck but it has no long term future.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    viewcode said:

    Mr. Herdson, didn't Hitler order a 24 halt in the pursuit of fleeing Allied soldiers?

    From the army, yes, I believe it was something like that. Goering had persuaded him that the Luftwaffe could deal with mopping up the beaches.

    It wasn't a completely idiotic order. The Miracle of Dunkirk was just that - there was no way that so many men could have been evacuated without ideal conditions - and the German army had pushed on in their advance through France and the Low Countries to an extent that there was something to be said for briefly regrouping and consolidating supply lines. For that matter, 24 hours in the context of an 8-day evacuation was probably not critical. Even so, he should have left what were essentially tactical decisions to his generals on the ground (and in the air).
    Quite so, but there were two groups of generals in the German command chain. One set very much more cautious than the other. The halt command came about because advice from generals.
    The other recently emerging factor is that the German Army were all doped to the hilt with amphetamines (pervitin) so they could advance so fast without stopping to sleep etc. but that only works for a while before it catches up with you big time.
    That is a new one on me and sounds very unlikely, given the numbers involved. Do you have a source, please?
    There was an article in the Daily Heil this week. I've on a military history kick this summer and it seemed quite plausible.
    Except, despite having read extensively on the campaign, I have never come across one single memoir that mentions it. However, I shall take a butcher's at the source.
    This is a frequently recycled Daily Mail "exclusive", A search for "Daily Mail Pervitin" gives us the same article rehashed on Mar 30, 2011, Jun 1, 2013, Sep 10, 2015, Sep 3, 2016 and probably more often.

    A book seems to be the source: 'The Total Rush; Drugs in the Third Reich' by Norman Ohler
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,044
    PlatoSaid said:

    TBF, he's running on the following

    - more funding for police and veterans - and military
    - tax cuts for middle classes
    - maternity pay
    - extreme vetting of immigrants from war torn or rogue nations
    - border enforcement and deportation of illegals
    - religious freedom for Christians guaranteed
    - protection of gun ownership
    - breaking up education from Common Core union grip

    That's just off the top of my head. The caricature painted by media and much of PB is quite misleading.

    He's campaigning on tax cuts for everyone*, with the closing of a just a single loop hole, that of carried interest. To an extent, it's a replication of the Reagan supply side policy set, with one important difference:

    The US in 2016 already has the lowest taxes in the developed world, and the fiscal position of the US is a lot more precarious.

    Carter gets a lot of stick, but when he handed the country over the Reagan, government debt-to-GDP was at a post World War One low - c. 30% of GDP. Reagan and Bush I cut taxes, while not reigning spending, which saw debt-to-GDP double to 60%. The Clinton years saw it come back in again to around 50%, before Bush II and Obama saw it shoot up to 104.2% (at last count).

    So, he has a lot less fiscal room to cut taxes to stimulate the economy. (I'd also note that the US already has one of the lowest tax takes as a percentage of GDP. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP)
This discussion has been closed.